Getting sick of seeing this comment I played it at my confort level, no quicker, and couldnt go slower.. just cause I have more time/energy/whatever to play than others doesnt mean anything
As has been said there is new content coming, and im happy to wait.. its just damn that was quick.. took me aaagggeeesssss to hit lvl 80 in WoW so I guess I was expecting something like that.. though on the other hand im also glad it didnt take that long
hehe oh well, will just fly arouns looking cool or something
well if it fits your playstyle.. fine.... but the average mmo player that has some experience and knows what you could expect from an mmo ( usually the ones who played WoW as well) are not going to stay very long without content. that leaves the game to a 50k hardcore fanboy/carebear section, which usually means the death to any mmo in no time.
There is a ***load more hardcore trekky/carebear fans(hella lot more then 50k bud sorry to say) who play and will continue to do so in the future. You severely underestimate this IP.
I'm having fun and so are a ton of other people, maybe you should concentrate on what you think is fun, find the next MMO out and zerg to End Game and complain about no content.
PS. To all WOW arguments, WOW had a terrible end game when it came out. Freezes, CTD, immortal bosses, I would rather have no end game, and wait for it to come out in a decent shape then that POS game had when it came out.
PS. To all WOW arguments, WOW had a terrible end game when it came out. Freezes, CTD, immortal bosses, I would rather have no end game, and wait for it to come out in a decent shape then that POS game had when it came out.
lol like STO came out in great shape to begin with :D I agree though, the game is a week old.. cant expect too much yet.. can only get better from here.. just hope the wait isnt too long
I don't want Cryptic to worry too much about "end-game" content, as there are plenty of years ahead that will allow them to work on and implement enough content for the later levels.
I think it would be better to draw Cryptics attention to the starting experience, from the tutorial and through the rank of Lieutenant. There are many things here that could be changed to make the game, and the initial play experience, much better and welcoming to new players.
A few examples of this would be:
"Randomize" quest objectives a little more. Always seeing "Defeat 0/5 Squadrons" makes the game appear to be a lot of cut/paste. Use varying amounts of squads and maybe have destory x ships instead on some of these saying squadrons.
In Episodic Missions really need to have more choices in your responses. The mission with Ambassador Sakketh(SP); it would be nice if we could choose to deviate from the plan by scanning the ambassador and fight him on our ships instead.
Sector Space still needs some modifications to make it more "welcoming" and pleasing to the eye.
Unlockable ship appearances would be nice; especially in these first 10 levels.
Bringing new players into the game is much more important than keeping those that rush to "end-game" quickly. But they also need to keep the "end-game" guys happy, at least by adding in more PvP areas and/or Fleet Actions.
There is a ***load more hardcore trekky/carebear fans(hella lot more then 50k bud sorry to say) who play and will continue to do so in the future. You severely underestimate this IP.
I'm having fun and so are a ton of other people, maybe you should concentrate on what you think is fun, find the next MMO out and zerg to End Game and complain about no content.
PS. To all WOW arguments, WOW had a terrible end game when it came out. Freezes, CTD, immortal bosses, I would rather have no end game, and wait for it to come out in a decent shape then that POS game had when it came out.
well I AM a huge star trek fan, but i am pretty much the guy you would expect to raid a lot in wow for instance. i prefer to play a lot together with my guild/fleet, there are no options right now in the game for that.
well wow at least had SOME endgame at release+9 different toons and at least 2 weeks powergaming content, no comparison to STO.
but i had enough wow for now... at least until cataclysm.
lol like STO came out in great shape to begin with :D I agree though, the game is a week old.. cant expect too much yet.. can only get better from here.. just hope the wait isnt too long
Go take a look at the Champions Online forums and see the evolution of such thinking in that game.
Champions Online was released September 1, 2009. They're still waiting for some of those very things to happen - multiple leveling paths, useful PvP, team and endgame content, content depth, and so on. They're five months in, and still waiting on it.
The problem with MMOs at this point is that there are a couple of heavy hitters - WoW, EVE, LOTRO - on which folks can fall back if a new MMO fails to meet the bar. The bar is pretty high these days, too, as there are multiple MMOs being released every year now - more competition, more discrimination, more choices. Customers are no longer stuck waiting for games to ramp up, hoping that they can at least demonstrate enough affinity to get something out of their "veteran status" once the game becomes playable for the long term. They move on.
City of Heroes was released during the tail end of the MMO "sweet spot," a genre-defining game that pushed Cryptic into the limelight. City of Villains didn't do as well, but had enough of a built-in fan base to sustain it. Champions Online flopped; the exodus has already begun. If Cryptic can't pull this one out of the fire within a few months, they're going to kill what little reputation they had gained from City of Heroes.
The business end of the house needs to understand that if you don't have solid content out of the gate, and you're still shipping what amounts to a release candidate under the hopes that you'll meet dates and sell boxes so you can use that income to finish the release, you've probably failed. Your early adopters will desert in droves, return to their fallback MMOs, and wait half a year or so to see what happens - Age of Conan's rollout and subsequent crash is a prime example of that behavior.
A week in, and this looks like Champions Online all over again, hence my cynicism.
i am definitely not going to pay subscription fees for developing an unfinished game AND buy the content that is missing in the first place. and i guess thats what the big majority thinks. sure if you want to have another "50k population at best hardcore fanboy sheep game" then wait a few months and this is it.
That's just the thing... Our subscription does not pay for development AT ALL... It pays for ACCESS. That's it. That is all that your subscription entitles you to, and that is all it obligates Cryptic for. And even then, there is a clause in the terms that informs you, and expects you to agree to, that they do not guarantee that access will not be interrupted.
Stuff that comes out in every MMO after launch is in addition to the core game, which in most cases is just as incomplete as the core game in STO. Granted some companies choose to push updates to live for free. Some charge for additional content. What they do with anything released beyond what the game launches with is their prerogative. It is our prerogative to decide if it is worth investing in. Just like it is our prerogative to decide whether or not continuing the subscription is worth investing in.
if you are silently accepting to do this then... sorry, you are not very smart.
If I don't think something is worth buying, I don't buy it.
If one goes to a movie theatre and buys a ticket, they still have to pay for items bought at the concession stand. Your monthly fee is the price of admission into STO. But if you want more than that, you pay extra.
If one pays for membership at a wholesale club store, they still have to buy the merchandise. The membership gets them in the door, but if they want to leave with something, they need to buy it.
If you buy a car, your car not pays for the car itself. But you still have to pay for insurance, gas, oil changes, tires and other things. And there are all sorts of accessories available that your car not does not entitle you to.
Read the description of STO on the back of the box. Are you able to do everything that it says? I don't mean can you do everything that you interpret everything it says to mean. But if taken literally, can you do it? Oh, you CAN? Well... That is what your subscription fee entitles you access to... The ability to do what the box says you can do. No more and no less...
Anything above and beyond that, and it is Cryptic's prerogative to either give it to you or charge you for it. If you don't like it, then the terms are very clear as to what you can do to remedy the situation:
You may cancel your subscription. If you are unwilling to do that, then it means that you are silently accepting that the game is what it is, regardless of how incomplete you think it is. Maybe it is you who is not very smart...
That's just the thing... Our subscription does not pay for development AT ALL... It pays for ACCESS. That's it. That is all that your subscription entitles you to, and that is all it obligates Cryptic for. And even then, there is a clause in the terms that informs you, and expects you to agree to, that they do not guarantee that access will not be interrupted.
Stuff that comes out in every MMO after launch is in addition to the core game, which in most cases is just as incomplete as the core game in STO. Granted some companies choose to push updates to live for free. Some charge for additional content. What they do with anything released beyond what the game launches with is their prerogative. It is our prerogative to decide if it is worth investing in. Just like it is our prerogative to decide whether or not continuing the subscription is worth investing in.
If I don't think something is worth buying, I don't buy it.
If one goes to a movie theatre and buys a ticket, they still have to pay for items bought at the concession stand. Your monthly fee is the price of admission into STO. But if you want more than that, you pay extra.
If one pays for membership at a wholesale club store, they still have to buy the merchandise. The membership gets them in the door, but if they want to leave with something, they need to buy it.
If you buy a car, your car not pays for the car itself. But you still have to pay for insurance, gas, oil changes, tires and other things. And there are all sorts of accessories available that your car not does not entitle you to.
Read the description of STO on the back of the box. Are you able to do everything that it says? I don't mean can you do everything that you interpret everything it says to mean. But if taken literally, can you do it? Oh, you CAN? Well... That is what your subscription fee entitles you access to... The ability to do what the box says you can do. No more and no less...
Anything above and beyond that, and it is Cryptic's prerogative to either give it to you or charge you for it. If you don't like it, then the terms are very clear as to what you can do to remedy the situation:
You may cancel your subscription. If you are unwilling to do that, then it means that you are silently accepting that the game is what it is, regardless of how incomplete you think it is. Maybe it is you who is not very smart...
Is this your first MMO? Subscription fees are what go to pay for access yes but it also goes to further the development of the game..... Every MMO does this. Sure you have expansions that you pay extra for but those are huge compared to the continual content / bug fixes. This is and has been understood to be the reason why we pay a monthly sub .... dating back to times of EQ.
A week in, and this looks like Champions Online all over again, hence my cynicism.
I can't see how anyone could not see where this game is headed. It's all well and good to be optimistic, but with Cryptics track record lately of TRIBBLE over their fan base, what other conclusion can anyone come to?
I would have happily played this game untill at least ToR came out if Cryptic had put evan an attempt into making the game enjoyable.
That's just the thing... Our subscription does not pay for development AT ALL... It pays for ACCESS. That's it. That is all that your subscription entitles you to, and that is all it obligates Cryptic for. And even then, there is a clause in the terms that informs you, and expects you to agree to, that they do not guarantee that access will not be interrupted.
Stuff that comes out in every MMO after launch is in addition to the core game, which in most cases is just as incomplete as the core game in STO. Granted some companies choose to push updates to live for free. Some charge for additional content. What they do with anything released beyond what the game launches with is their prerogative. It is our prerogative to decide if it is worth investing in. Just like it is our prerogative to decide whether or not continuing the subscription is worth investing in.
If I don't think something is worth buying, I don't buy it.
If one goes to a movie theatre and buys a ticket, they still have to pay for items bought at the concession stand. Your monthly fee is the price of admission into STO. But if you want more than that, you pay extra.
If one pays for membership at a wholesale club store, they still have to buy the merchandise. The membership gets them in the door, but if they want to leave with something, they need to buy it.
If you buy a car, your car not pays for the car itself. But you still have to pay for insurance, gas, oil changes, tires and other things. And there are all sorts of accessories available that your car not does not entitle you to.
Read the description of STO on the back of the box. Are you able to do everything that it says? I don't mean can you do everything that you interpret everything it says to mean. But if taken literally, can you do it? Oh, you CAN? Well... That is what your subscription fee entitles you access to... The ability to do what the box says you can do. No more and no less...
Anything above and beyond that, and it is Cryptic's prerogative to either give it to you or charge you for it. If you don't like it, then the terms are very clear as to what you can do to remedy the situation:
You may cancel your subscription. If you are unwilling to do that, then it means that you are silently accepting that the game is what it is, regardless of how incomplete you think it is. Maybe it is you who is not very smart...
i didnt subscribe anything yet, i just bought the game , thats it.
i dont even regret it, i am just not really convinced at this point that it is worthy to subscribe after the free 30 days period.
that said, its not the ultimate truth you are telling here. subscription fees are NOT only server access fees, it is common sense and actual practice that the devs use those as well to develop new content for their playerbase to keep their status as an MMO and not just a singleplayer game with multiplayer mode, thats basically what STO is right now , sadly.
your idea of an mmo fits more to those SP games like dragon age, mass effect 2.. ( great ) singleplayer rpgs with DLC content that costs money. but those games really are finished and polished right from the box !
Go take a look at the Champions Online forums and see the evolution of such thinking in that game.
Champions Online was released September 1, 2009. They're still waiting for some of those very things to happen - multiple leveling paths, useful PvP, team and endgame content, content depth, and so on. They're five months in, and still waiting on it.
The problem with MMOs at this point is that there are a couple of heavy hitters - WoW, EVE, LOTRO - on which folks can fall back if a new MMO fails to meet the bar. The bar is pretty high these days, too, as there are multiple MMOs being released every year now - more competition, more discrimination, more choices. Customers are no longer stuck waiting for games to ramp up, hoping that they can at least demonstrate enough affinity to get something out of their "veteran status" once the game becomes playable for the long term. They move on.
City of Heroes was released during the tail end of the MMO "sweet spot," a genre-defining game that pushed Cryptic into the limelight. City of Villains didn't do as well, but had enough of a built-in fan base to sustain it. Champions Online flopped; the exodus has already begun. If Cryptic can't pull this one out of the fire within a few months, they're going to kill what little reputation they had gained from City of Heroes.
The business end of the house needs to understand that if you don't have solid content out of the gate, and you're still shipping what amounts to a release candidate under the hopes that you'll meet dates and sell boxes so you can use that income to finish the release, you've probably failed. Your early adopters will desert in droves, return to their fallback MMOs, and wait half a year or so to see what happens - Age of Conan's rollout and subsequent crash is a prime example of that behavior.
A week in, and this looks like Champions Online all over again, hence my cynicism.
Go take a look at the Champions Online forums and see the evolution of such thinking in that game.
<SNIP>
Cryptic pulled everyone together to get STO to a launchable state. Stormshade is moving over there to be their community lead. Cryptic is no doubt releasing team members back to Champions now that STO has launched. Now both STO and CO can move forward in terms of content development.
Now, if this does not happen, and both games just sit floundering, I will begin to question Cryptic's capabilities. But I do not think that this will happen. As MMO developers go, Cryptic is a small company. Two simultaneous MMOs is quite a bit to juggle.
Perpetual could not do it. It was all they could do to work on Gods and Heroes, even though they said they would work on it and STO at the same time. So what Cryptic was able to do is nothing short of phenomenal from a logistical perspective. Both games are live. Now focus for both will turn to content development. And all will be well.
End game starts on day one in eve. I love nubs in that game, catch them early and you can have a bloodthirsty little bugger who is a valuble fleet asset within the first day. The thing with both eve and SWG (pre NGE) was that the devs did not have to add more and more content to keep people happy, they gave us the tools to make our own content from day one.
People who have never really experienced games like Eve or SWG have no concept of what this means. Sadly the action that the players created in SWG and Eve online was so much better than anything I've ever had another Dev spoon feed me in all of the other MMO's I've played. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy some of the content but I just didn't enjoy it as much. STO had the potential to have the same kind of thing going for it that Eve online does whilst still including the casual player but since the engine that STO is built on is the same as the Champions Online engine we will never see the epic struggles for territory between the Federation, Klingons, Borg etc. that could have been possible. Can you imagine the possibility of having territorial battles for space in STO the way it goes on in Eve Online. OMFG I would never play another MMO if that were possible. Sadly this will never happen here. =(
Cryptic pulled everyone together to get STO to a launchable state. Stormshade is moving over there to be their community lead. Cryptic is no doubt releasing team members back to Champions now that STO has launched. Now both STO and CO can move forward in terms of content development.
Now, if this does not happen, and both games just sit floundering, I will begin to question Cryptic's capabilities. But I do not think that this will happen. As MMO developers go, Cryptic is a small company. Two simultaneous MMOs is quite a bit to juggle.
Perpetual could not do it. It was all they could do to work on Gods and Heroes, even though they said they would work on it and STO at the same time. So what Cryptic was able to do is nothing short of phenomenal from a logistical perspective. Both games are live. Now focus for both will turn to content development. And all will be well.
I hate to throw out the DOOOOM speak but Champions Online is a dead duck. Cryptics epic bumbling of the launch of that game, plus the same shallow and lifeless environment that exists in STO is going to kill that game. Pvp is a mess and the content is again lifeless and dull. Unfortunately for Cryptic they are probably looking at a "break even" proposition with that game if somehow SOE can pull off DC Online. Most of the customers that Cryptic could have had from CoH/CoX quit playing Champions Online and won't play that game over DC Online. (again if DC is well done) The reality is that they need to focus their development energy on STO because it needs some serious work to retain the folks trying it for the first 30 days.
I really liked reading your post and not to say I want to hit cap as fast as possible, but I have no problem sitting there grinding levels so while I am not capped yet I am 31 and am working my way there at a relatively fast pace. I was hoping there would be some stuff to do at cap, but I am not surprised there isnt. There isnt goign to be a large population of capped players looking for that content for a few weeks so they had other things to work on like getting the game to a launchable state and then keeping the team focused to deal with any bugs that snuck through beta. End game content will come and in the mean time especially if they come out with respec soon like I think they claimed they would there is a lot to explore and try out as far as BO skills ship build outs and skill point allocation. Rather than just being one of the only capped people maybe set a goal now of figuring out whats the best build for certain things/
I remember seeing these same kind of posts from people at the begining of WoW, Guild Wars, and a bunch of other MMOs. If you rush through 60-80 hours of content in a week, expect to be disappointied, especially in MMOs. They are designed to constantly grow, those that don't fail.
You reach max level in 5 days and gripe about content!!!!
Oh, the irony. You apparently have seen everything there is to see in the game in 5 days time. More likely, you found an XP hotspot and camped it 24 hours a day until you capped and then were dissapointed. The problem here isn't the Devs, it's you trying to be an elitist.
since you guys dont seem to care about reading every page ( i wouldnt as well) to prevent to repeat everything again i just say it again:
you can hit max lvl (45) in 50 hours doing everything the game has to offer, not skipping anything, not exploiting anything.
just hit social-search and put in the lvl range 40,41... 45... you will see there are a lot of them already, not even speaking of all the captains.. those numbers grow exponential you know, so does the demand for new content.
average lvl seems to be around 30 right now for headstart players.
You reach max level in 5 days and gripe about content!!!!
Oh, the irony. You apparently have seen everything there is to see in the game in 5 days time. More likely, you found an XP hotspot and camped it 24 hours a day until you capped and then were dissapointed. The problem here isn't the Devs, it's you trying to be an elitist.
I dont think u realize how pathetically easy it is to level in this game, it's not a matter of rushing through, it's the fact that you require so little exp to reach admiral.
And fyi I can guarantee without a doubt that WoW had no where near this many high level players a week after release. The amount of exp to hit 60 and to hit admiral isnt even close to comparable.
And if my sub fee isnt for developing content, how the hell does WoW manage to release raid content using ONLY sub fees.
i didnt subscribe anything yet, i just bought the game , thats it.
i dont even regret it, i am just not really convinced at this point that it is worthy to subscribe after the free 30 days period.
And you are entitled to that standpoint. Perhaps you should hold off on subscribing for about a month. See which way the wind is blowing in terms of content delivery. And if you like what you see, then subscribe. If you feel something isn't ready for your money, then don't spend your money on it.
that said, its not the ultimate truth you are telling here. subscription fees are NOT only server access fees, it is common sense and actual practice that the devs use those as well to develop new content for their playerbase to keep their status as an MMO and not just a singleplayer game with multiplayer mode, thats basically what STO is right now , sadly.
InfoGrames will be taking a chunk.
Atari will take another chunk.
Cryptic will be given enough to cover payrole, keep the power on and the internet pipe open. They'll get a budget to work with in terms of being able to buy replacement parts for equipment that fails and to make sure that the game has the hardware to support the masses. That is all that Cryptic will get, even if STO ends up with hundreds of thousands of subscribers more than they anticipated. You see, we are not paying them. We are paying a corporation full of suits who will line their bankrolls while doling out peanuts to the guys and gals who are busting their butts to keep it going.
If it cannot be done on the budget that Cryptic operates under, then it will not be done.
And you are entitled to that standpoint. Perhaps you should hold off on subscribing for about a month. See which way the wind is blowing in terms of content delivery. And if you like what you see, then subscribe. If you feel something isn't ready for your money, then don't spend your money on it.
InfoGrames will be taking a chunk.
Atari will take another chunk.
Cryptic will be given enough to cover payrole, keep the power on and the internet pipe open. They'll get a budget to work with in terms of being able to buy replacement parts for equipment that fails and to make sure that the game has the hardware to support the masses. That is all that Cryptic will get, even if STO ends up with hundreds of thousands of subscribers more than they anticipated. You see, we are not paying them. We are paying a corporation full of suits who will line their bankrolls while doling out peanuts to the guys and gals who are busting their butts to keep it going.
If it cannot be done on the budget that Cryptic operates under, then it will not be done.
And you are entitled to that standpoint. Perhaps you should hold off on subscribing for about a month. See which way the wind is blowing in terms of content delivery. And if you like what you see, then subscribe. If you feel something isn't ready for your money, then don't spend your money on it.
InfoGrames will be taking a chunk.
Atari will take another chunk.
Cryptic will be given enough to cover payrole, keep the power on and the internet pipe open. They'll get a budget to work with in terms of being able to buy replacement parts for equipment that fails and to make sure that the game has the hardware to support the masses. That is all that Cryptic will get, even if STO ends up with hundreds of thousands of subscribers more than they anticipated. You see, we are not paying them. We are paying a corporation full of suits who will line their bankrolls while doling out peanuts to the guys and gals who are busting their butts to keep it going.
If it cannot be done on the budget that Cryptic operates under, then it will not be done.
if you think publishing fees and ip licensing fees are that high then you are mistaken. by that accounting, very few games would ever be profitable and patches to even single player games with original ips would be rare.
250k subs would be very profitable for all parties involved. not as profitable in a per customer basis as wow is to blizzard, but enough to see funding for new content in the future. more subs even more profit and less of an overall cost versus profit for adding new content.
even games which are seen as failures such as warhammer and aoc which have seen dramatic downsizing of number of servers are profitable enough to not only maintain things like endless free trials but adding new content and fixes as well.
sell a million "boxes" alone and you've made a profit on an mmo these days.
even f2p games that rely on voluntary micro transactions see enough profit to not only maintain their servers but add new content as well. and some of these games the playerbase is measured only in the tens of thousands.
The damage is all ready done. Even if they make the leveling slower, everyone is hitting commander+ in a matter of days and realizing there is nothing left to do.
any ideas when respec is comming in i would liek to switch to star cruiser and have some points to put into the star cruiser captain bit so it can turn :P
Has the server been down for the last two days? Is that it? Is that why this thread is still going on? Give it a reast will ya. No, there is no "End Content" (what ever the hell that means). Yes. It's coming soon. Close the thread please.
if you think publishing fees and ip licensing fees are that high then you are mistaken. by that accounting, very few games would ever be profitable and patches to even single player games with original ips would be rare.
Star Trek is a multi-BILLION-dollar IP, my friend. You think that CBS is going to let some other company make money off the IP without charging a sizable chunk of change?... And on top of that, royalty fees are likely applied, which means a percentage of the revenue goes to CBS before any other allocations.
A great many game developers use an existing engine to make their games. Look at all the games that use engines like Source, Unreal, Quake4/Doom3, Gamebryo, among others. On average, the development company of the engine charges a quarter of a million dollar license fee. And if the game is based on a copyrighted and trade-marked IP like Star Trek, Star Wars, etc, then they have to pay a license for that as well.
Granted, Cryptic us using their own proprietary engine, so no license fee there. But they cannot indefinately go without paying a sizable chunk to CBS to renew the Trek license. And you can bet that when CBS originally licensed the Trek IP to Perpetual, it was for enough time to develop the game and be out generating revenue. Probably about five years. Maybe six. Perpetual had it for at least two years before folding. Cryptic has had it for about 2 years. That leaves one, maybe two years before they have to renew. And there is a very good bet that a license for an IP as big as that of Str Trek runes at least a couple million and change.
Why do you think that Star Trek titles are only developed by companies with massive corporate financial backing? If it were not massively expensive, then any development company could afford it.
This is why I quit playing my klingon at 11, playin fed till some content comes in.
I have not yet seen an mmo that had good endgame content out in the first week lol.
Always a group of ppl that rush to get to this "endgame" content and totally rush by everything else as just a means to get there. Then they find nothing, and they skipped 1/2 of what content IS in the game.
AoC for example had awesome starter quests till um, 25 then it started slacking untill the end then there was, uh hum, nothing to do but pvp ?
I want to rant about the game being rushed out just like every other mmo I have played, but, they are all like this so, be patient or don't.
Comments
Getting sick of seeing this comment
As has been said there is new content coming, and im happy to wait.. its just damn that was quick.. took me aaagggeeesssss to hit lvl 80 in WoW so I guess I was expecting something like that.. though on the other hand im also glad it didnt take that long
hehe oh well, will just fly arouns looking cool or something
There is a ***load more hardcore trekky/carebear fans(hella lot more then 50k bud sorry to say) who play and will continue to do so in the future. You severely underestimate this IP.
I'm having fun and so are a ton of other people, maybe you should concentrate on what you think is fun, find the next MMO out and zerg to End Game and complain about no content.
PS. To all WOW arguments, WOW had a terrible end game when it came out. Freezes, CTD, immortal bosses, I would rather have no end game, and wait for it to come out in a decent shape then that POS game had when it came out.
I'm lvl 37 on a couple characters... and I'll be making more once they get to the max ; p
lol like STO came out in great shape to begin with
I don't want Cryptic to worry too much about "end-game" content, as there are plenty of years ahead that will allow them to work on and implement enough content for the later levels.
I think it would be better to draw Cryptics attention to the starting experience, from the tutorial and through the rank of Lieutenant. There are many things here that could be changed to make the game, and the initial play experience, much better and welcoming to new players.
A few examples of this would be:
Bringing new players into the game is much more important than keeping those that rush to "end-game" quickly. But they also need to keep the "end-game" guys happy, at least by adding in more PvP areas and/or Fleet Actions.
well I AM a huge star trek fan, but i am pretty much the guy you would expect to raid a lot in wow for instance. i prefer to play a lot together with my guild/fleet, there are no options right now in the game for that.
well wow at least had SOME endgame at release+9 different toons and at least 2 weeks powergaming content, no comparison to STO.
but i had enough wow for now... at least until cataclysm.
if i wasnt a trek fan, i would have quit already
Go take a look at the Champions Online forums and see the evolution of such thinking in that game.
Champions Online was released September 1, 2009. They're still waiting for some of those very things to happen - multiple leveling paths, useful PvP, team and endgame content, content depth, and so on. They're five months in, and still waiting on it.
The problem with MMOs at this point is that there are a couple of heavy hitters - WoW, EVE, LOTRO - on which folks can fall back if a new MMO fails to meet the bar. The bar is pretty high these days, too, as there are multiple MMOs being released every year now - more competition, more discrimination, more choices. Customers are no longer stuck waiting for games to ramp up, hoping that they can at least demonstrate enough affinity to get something out of their "veteran status" once the game becomes playable for the long term. They move on.
City of Heroes was released during the tail end of the MMO "sweet spot," a genre-defining game that pushed Cryptic into the limelight. City of Villains didn't do as well, but had enough of a built-in fan base to sustain it. Champions Online flopped; the exodus has already begun. If Cryptic can't pull this one out of the fire within a few months, they're going to kill what little reputation they had gained from City of Heroes.
The business end of the house needs to understand that if you don't have solid content out of the gate, and you're still shipping what amounts to a release candidate under the hopes that you'll meet dates and sell boxes so you can use that income to finish the release, you've probably failed. Your early adopters will desert in droves, return to their fallback MMOs, and wait half a year or so to see what happens - Age of Conan's rollout and subsequent crash is a prime example of that behavior.
A week in, and this looks like Champions Online all over again, hence my cynicism.
That's just the thing... Our subscription does not pay for development AT ALL... It pays for ACCESS. That's it. That is all that your subscription entitles you to, and that is all it obligates Cryptic for. And even then, there is a clause in the terms that informs you, and expects you to agree to, that they do not guarantee that access will not be interrupted.
Stuff that comes out in every MMO after launch is in addition to the core game, which in most cases is just as incomplete as the core game in STO. Granted some companies choose to push updates to live for free. Some charge for additional content. What they do with anything released beyond what the game launches with is their prerogative. It is our prerogative to decide if it is worth investing in. Just like it is our prerogative to decide whether or not continuing the subscription is worth investing in.
If I don't think something is worth buying, I don't buy it.
If one goes to a movie theatre and buys a ticket, they still have to pay for items bought at the concession stand. Your monthly fee is the price of admission into STO. But if you want more than that, you pay extra.
If one pays for membership at a wholesale club store, they still have to buy the merchandise. The membership gets them in the door, but if they want to leave with something, they need to buy it.
If you buy a car, your car not pays for the car itself. But you still have to pay for insurance, gas, oil changes, tires and other things. And there are all sorts of accessories available that your car not does not entitle you to.
Read the description of STO on the back of the box. Are you able to do everything that it says? I don't mean can you do everything that you interpret everything it says to mean. But if taken literally, can you do it? Oh, you CAN? Well... That is what your subscription fee entitles you access to... The ability to do what the box says you can do. No more and no less...
Anything above and beyond that, and it is Cryptic's prerogative to either give it to you or charge you for it. If you don't like it, then the terms are very clear as to what you can do to remedy the situation:
You may cancel your subscription. If you are unwilling to do that, then it means that you are silently accepting that the game is what it is, regardless of how incomplete you think it is. Maybe it is you who is not very smart...
Is this your first MMO? Subscription fees are what go to pay for access yes but it also goes to further the development of the game..... Every MMO does this. Sure you have expansions that you pay extra for but those are huge compared to the continual content / bug fixes. This is and has been understood to be the reason why we pay a monthly sub .... dating back to times of EQ.
I can't see how anyone could not see where this game is headed. It's all well and good to be optimistic, but with Cryptics track record lately of TRIBBLE over their fan base, what other conclusion can anyone come to?
I would have happily played this game untill at least ToR came out if Cryptic had put evan an attempt into making the game enjoyable.
i didnt subscribe anything yet, i just bought the game , thats it.
i dont even regret it, i am just not really convinced at this point that it is worthy to subscribe after the free 30 days period.
that said, its not the ultimate truth you are telling here. subscription fees are NOT only server access fees, it is common sense and actual practice that the devs use those as well to develop new content for their playerbase to keep their status as an MMO and not just a singleplayer game with multiplayer mode, thats basically what STO is right now , sadly.
your idea of an mmo fits more to those SP games like dragon age, mass effect 2.. ( great ) singleplayer rpgs with DLC content that costs money. but those games really are finished and polished right from the box !
you sir, are correct. nothing more to add.
Cryptic pulled everyone together to get STO to a launchable state. Stormshade is moving over there to be their community lead. Cryptic is no doubt releasing team members back to Champions now that STO has launched. Now both STO and CO can move forward in terms of content development.
Now, if this does not happen, and both games just sit floundering, I will begin to question Cryptic's capabilities. But I do not think that this will happen. As MMO developers go, Cryptic is a small company. Two simultaneous MMOs is quite a bit to juggle.
Perpetual could not do it. It was all they could do to work on Gods and Heroes, even though they said they would work on it and STO at the same time. So what Cryptic was able to do is nothing short of phenomenal from a logistical perspective. Both games are live. Now focus for both will turn to content development. And all will be well.
People who have never really experienced games like Eve or SWG have no concept of what this means. Sadly the action that the players created in SWG and Eve online was so much better than anything I've ever had another Dev spoon feed me in all of the other MMO's I've played. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy some of the content but I just didn't enjoy it as much. STO had the potential to have the same kind of thing going for it that Eve online does whilst still including the casual player but since the engine that STO is built on is the same as the Champions Online engine we will never see the epic struggles for territory between the Federation, Klingons, Borg etc. that could have been possible. Can you imagine the possibility of having territorial battles for space in STO the way it goes on in Eve Online. OMFG I would never play another MMO if that were possible. Sadly this will never happen here. =(
I hate to throw out the DOOOOM speak but Champions Online is a dead duck. Cryptics epic bumbling of the launch of that game, plus the same shallow and lifeless environment that exists in STO is going to kill that game. Pvp is a mess and the content is again lifeless and dull. Unfortunately for Cryptic they are probably looking at a "break even" proposition with that game if somehow SOE can pull off DC Online. Most of the customers that Cryptic could have had from CoH/CoX quit playing Champions Online and won't play that game over DC Online. (again if DC is well done) The reality is that they need to focus their development energy on STO because it needs some serious work to retain the folks trying it for the first 30 days.
Oh, the irony. You apparently have seen everything there is to see in the game in 5 days time. More likely, you found an XP hotspot and camped it 24 hours a day until you capped and then were dissapointed. The problem here isn't the Devs, it's you trying to be an elitist.
you can hit max lvl (45) in 50 hours doing everything the game has to offer, not skipping anything, not exploiting anything.
just hit social-search and put in the lvl range 40,41... 45... you will see there are a lot of them already, not even speaking of all the captains.. those numbers grow exponential you know, so does the demand for new content.
average lvl seems to be around 30 right now for headstart players.
I dont think u realize how pathetically easy it is to level in this game, it's not a matter of rushing through, it's the fact that you require so little exp to reach admiral.
And fyi I can guarantee without a doubt that WoW had no where near this many high level players a week after release. The amount of exp to hit 60 and to hit admiral isnt even close to comparable.
And if my sub fee isnt for developing content, how the hell does WoW manage to release raid content using ONLY sub fees.
And you are entitled to that standpoint. Perhaps you should hold off on subscribing for about a month. See which way the wind is blowing in terms of content delivery. And if you like what you see, then subscribe. If you feel something isn't ready for your money, then don't spend your money on it.
InfoGrames will be taking a chunk.
Atari will take another chunk.
Cryptic will be given enough to cover payrole, keep the power on and the internet pipe open. They'll get a budget to work with in terms of being able to buy replacement parts for equipment that fails and to make sure that the game has the hardware to support the masses. That is all that Cryptic will get, even if STO ends up with hundreds of thousands of subscribers more than they anticipated. You see, we are not paying them. We are paying a corporation full of suits who will line their bankrolls while doling out peanuts to the guys and gals who are busting their butts to keep it going.
If it cannot be done on the budget that Cryptic operates under, then it will not be done.
Clueless........
Really? Care to enlighten me?
if you think publishing fees and ip licensing fees are that high then you are mistaken. by that accounting, very few games would ever be profitable and patches to even single player games with original ips would be rare.
250k subs would be very profitable for all parties involved. not as profitable in a per customer basis as wow is to blizzard, but enough to see funding for new content in the future. more subs even more profit and less of an overall cost versus profit for adding new content.
even games which are seen as failures such as warhammer and aoc which have seen dramatic downsizing of number of servers are profitable enough to not only maintain things like endless free trials but adding new content and fixes as well.
sell a million "boxes" alone and you've made a profit on an mmo these days.
even f2p games that rely on voluntary micro transactions see enough profit to not only maintain their servers but add new content as well. and some of these games the playerbase is measured only in the tens of thousands.
Star Trek is a multi-BILLION-dollar IP, my friend. You think that CBS is going to let some other company make money off the IP without charging a sizable chunk of change?... And on top of that, royalty fees are likely applied, which means a percentage of the revenue goes to CBS before any other allocations.
A great many game developers use an existing engine to make their games. Look at all the games that use engines like Source, Unreal, Quake4/Doom3, Gamebryo, among others. On average, the development company of the engine charges a quarter of a million dollar license fee. And if the game is based on a copyrighted and trade-marked IP like Star Trek, Star Wars, etc, then they have to pay a license for that as well.
Granted, Cryptic us using their own proprietary engine, so no license fee there. But they cannot indefinately go without paying a sizable chunk to CBS to renew the Trek license. And you can bet that when CBS originally licensed the Trek IP to Perpetual, it was for enough time to develop the game and be out generating revenue. Probably about five years. Maybe six. Perpetual had it for at least two years before folding. Cryptic has had it for about 2 years. That leaves one, maybe two years before they have to renew. And there is a very good bet that a license for an IP as big as that of Str Trek runes at least a couple million and change.
Why do you think that Star Trek titles are only developed by companies with massive corporate financial backing? If it were not massively expensive, then any development company could afford it.
I have not yet seen an mmo that had good endgame content out in the first week lol.
Always a group of ppl that rush to get to this "endgame" content and totally rush by everything else as just a means to get there. Then they find nothing, and they skipped 1/2 of what content IS in the game.
AoC for example had awesome starter quests till um, 25 then it started slacking untill the end then there was, uh hum, nothing to do but pvp ?
I want to rant about the game being rushed out just like every other mmo I have played, but, they are all like this so, be patient or don't.