I'd like that as a second choice. My first choice would actually be
Commander: Tutorial
Captain: Rest of the game
Fleet Captain/Commodore after completing expansion content
The thing is, rank is part of the leveling system, it doesn't really give you much of a feel for your progression with only three ranks.
I think the biggest issue is the time scale. It took Kirk about 30 years to go from Lieutenant to Commodore, in the game it takes one year to go from two ranks lower to four ranks higher.
Also, I'm not too sure about Fleet Captain, it seems like a title more than a rank to me. Pike only wore captain's stripes and I can't think of any other example of one. Not even in the Dominion War where it would have been a perfect rank for Sisko if one existed.
But I like finding creative rank structures. For my headcanonical Deferi service I used a mixture of scandinavian and british police ranks (constables) which I like even though it makes limited sense. I'm going to upload a uniform showcase int he uniform thread at one point to flesh it out more
Tag me in it so I notice it please. My Romulan crew is a bit basic at the moment, it has Romulans, Vulcans, Remans and Hirogen at the moment, but I have been planning to add a Deferi or two but really can't be bothered to use my imagination at all .
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Commodore - 60 - that way it doesnt get pretentious with the rank system and you can keep command of your ship but it also includes responsibility to a small group of ship unlike an admiral who has to be behind a desk ordering fleets about.
But in Starfleet Admirals don't sit behind desks. They can and do retain command of Starships. All Admiral ranks from Commodore to Admiral have been seen to have done so.
admirals do the behind the scenes stuff later in life, they move personnel around, they generate and issue order to captains, they are responsible for any type of hearing or court-martials. when an admiral does come out to command a ship which isnt very often, like admiral hanson at wolf 359, he took command of a fleet to go out there and try to repel the borg attack. it didnt work, but he wouldnt be the only admiral to come out of starfleet command either on earth or at any starbase the federation have, hanson was based out of starbase 324.
admiral nechayev usually came out personally to attend to matters either too sensitive or requiring a personal presence to make it know what she wants done, with sisko and picard, she left no real room for them to disagree before she has to rush off to the next task.
admiral ross was another flag officer to come out of his bunker at starbase 375 in order to lead several fleets against an aggressive threat from the dominion.
but for the rest of the time they are hold up in their own starbases, fortresses on allied worlds and just making sure starfleet remains smoothly ran.
Those admirals seen on screen are very hands off with trying to take command with the exception to one or two who were looking to twist things to their own ends with an unknown hook or angle.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The "catalogue or criteria" is that we have seen Admiralty command thier own ships in the shows and movies, we need nothing else. In this game, our character is the "ultimate hero", and showered with awards, medals, and promotions to the highest ranks possible in thier "universe".
As far as proposing/supporting a "structure", "personal choice" is all that is being used in this thread, with "rules lawyering" and "cherry picking", as supposed support for thier personal choice to be considered as "fact", and then "moving of the goal posts" when a valid point that is contradictory is made.
Yes, most leaders in the show were the rank of Captain but we saw examples of other leaders, who were Commodores and Admiralty, commanding a ship as well. Its one thing to say that your personal choice would be to cap yourself at tthe rank of Captain but its disingenuous to suggest an in-game cap based off of only slivers of history, and show/movie canon to press Cryptic to have the game force your preference upon the player population, who may or may not agree/disagree/not care, about your preferences.
The "catalogue or criteria" is that we have seen Admiralty command thier own ships in the shows and movies, we need nothing else. In this game, our character is the "ultimate hero", and showered with awards, medals, and promotions to the highest ranks possible in thier "universe".
The films repeatedly drive home the point that the rank of captain is where the action is. This has come from Kirk repeatedly. And culminates in Kirk's nexus speech to Picard.
It's a definite theme about the difference between being an "Admiral" and being a "Captain."
James T. Kirk: Captain of the Enterprise, huh?
Jean-Luc Picard: That's right.
Kirk: Close to retirement?
Picard: I'm not planning on it.
Kirk: Well let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
It's not like this idea of being demoted, or being just referred to as captain is coming out of thin air. It's people reacting to a very specific theme that the is directly in the entire arc of Kirk's character throughout his films.
The "catalogue or criteria" is that we have seen Admiralty command thier own ships in the shows and movies, we need nothing else. In this game, our character is the "ultimate hero", and showered with awards, medals, and promotions to the highest ranks possible in thier "universe".
The films repeatedly drive home the point that the rank of captain is where the action is. This has come from Kirk repeatedly. And culminates in Kirk's nexus speech to Picard.
It's a definite theme about the difference between being an "Admiral" and being a "Captain."
James T. Kirk: Captain of the Enterprise, huh?
Jean-Luc Picard: That's right.
Kirk: Close to retirement?
Picard: I'm not planning on it.
Kirk: Well let me tell you something. Don't. Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there... you can make a difference.
It's not like this idea of being demoted, or being just referred to as captain is coming out of thin air. It's people reacting to a very specific theme that the is directly in the entire arc of Kirk's character throughout his films.
Kirk is Peter Pan. He doesn't have a fear of the Admiralty, he has a fear of growing up, of taking responsibility and that manifests as not wanting a promotion. Kirk's fear of age is the theme throughout the films.
As I pointed out before, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer all accepted their promotions like the grown up boys and girls they were.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Then there is the curious case of Commodore Stocker. The Enterprise command hierarchy resisted his taking over the center seat, because unlike Decker and Wesley he was a 'chair-bound paper-pusher' who had absolutely no field experience.
And with Decker the Enterprise command hierarchy also resisted his assuming center seat even though he was a field commander. They actively sought to remove him from command as well.
Also, we have no indication either way that the Fleet Captain rank was a battlefield one. Pike was inspecting Cadet Vessels, which on the surface seems to be more administrative than otherwise.
Ah, a new ship for this pack: a Temporal Cadet Vessel.
The most obvious explanation is...there are admirals that sit behind desks and there are admirals that command ships.
Also we only saw one ship in the whole fleet in TOS...we don't know if Admirals could or could not command ships.
Also in WOK while Spock gave command to Kirk...Kirk still officially took command:
KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen.
By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
and lastly...Sisko should have been an Admiral on DS9. Most of his duties were flag level duties.
Actually some of you need to learn customs and courtseys. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it. Because while Kirk is an admiral up until Spock deferred command to Kirk, Kirk was merely a passenger on SPOCK'S ship. You see, Spock would of been well within his rights to retain command and simply transport Kirk to where Starfleet told Kirk to go.
Infact a captain of a ship has the power to order an Admiral off his ship and can even use force to do so. Granted it's career suicide unless that captain has a damn good reason to do so. Also unless an Admiral has a valid reason to usurp command, he actually cannot take direct command away from a Captain. Infact, he'd be stepping on the toes of the Executive officer and that is also career suicide.
Just a few things you all should know. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
We have also seen rogues command their own ships. That does not mean we should have "Rogue" as the endgame level-rank.
That's a very week argument, rogue isn't a rank, Admiralty ranks are.
Lets put it this way, the notion of limiting players to the rank of Captain, by certain people who suffer some sort of micro-aggression every-time the game refers to the current structures rank, is to limit the ranks currently available to players, some of which are happy with the structure, as-is.
Even trying to limit the ranks within the "TOS Faction" is still limiting the players attainment, parallel to the tradition 2409-2410 Starfleet rank structure (which I serious believe the characters of the two "factions" will eventually coincide with each other, which wont make sense. This is where the anti-Admirals" will further demand to lower the ranks of the 25 century Starfleet to match (and you cant tell me that wont happen). Either way this "movement", just as any of the other "Captain-capping" thread, in reality want to take someone else's choice away in order to suit themselves.
The "anti-Admirals" might say "It's just a title, live with it, our way is better", to which I would say, "Admiralty ranks are just title, live with it, and let Cryptic devote resources to something more useful, and wont intrude on people who are happy with the way it is."
Much like the whole argument over the DPS range being too wide, people want to remove the upper ends, to satisfy themselves, while taking away from someone else, who is fine with the current outcomes.
In this game, our character is the "ultimate hero", [...]
Nope. Yours may be. Mine isn't. I want more power over my character's story, not less. So why not find a way that gives everybody what they want?
If you want enough power over your characters story, to keep them mediocre to average, that's all you, I think there's a game called Second Life that does that. Part of this MMO's making the player the "Hero" is they can do great things, save the universe once or three times. Whats the point of playing if you want to play in obscurity, charting nebula's?
"I want an average, non-heroic experience, in a game", said no one (except for one person in this thread).
I will say that I have always been fine with correcting the settings to allow a player to cap the rank they are being referred to but never to remove/restrict ranks from those of us that are happy with the status-quo.
Will there be a time when you notice that the respective show was over when their Captains were promoted to Admiral ranks? (Well, Sisko's "promotion" was slightly different, but the show was over all the same.)
Care to mention why that's relevant? Also, Archer made Commodore prior to the formation of the Coalition so still on the show, Sisko was promoted to captain during the show and Janeway, I'll give you that one, he rank up happened between VOY S& and Nemesis.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Kirk has a fear of responsibility? Certainly not. He is feared of boredom. The boredom of Admiralty. He wants to be where the action is.
He wants his ship and his crew and that's it. He dosn't want any of the responsability of the admiralty.
The responsibility of his Admiral duties are never shown or even talked about. It is about him missing something, not having "too much responsibility".
So what if his were never seen. Have you never had to infer something from previous examples?
Will there be a time when you notice that the respective show was over when their Captains were promoted to Admiral ranks? (Well, Sisko's "promotion" was slightly different, but the show was over all the same.)
Care to mention why that's relevant?
I would have thought this to be obvious. As a game, STO mirrors the TV shows. So it only makes sense to have our player captains be heroes just like the captains of the TV shows. Not like those characters after the show was over, because that would only apply for the time when the game is over.
But, as I have stated many times, the best solution for the dilemma, in my opinion, is to have the player decide what rank their captain shall have, out of all the options that the game offers.
[/quote]
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
How did Spock's court martial work out previously?
Wasn't The Sisko promoted to God?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I fully support the rank of Commodore replacing Rear Admiral Lower Half... that's just dumb. I know the real Navy does it, but cmon, this is fantasy and Commodore sounds cooler.
Actually some of you need to learn customs and courtseys. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it. Because while Kirk is an admiral up until Spock deferred command to Kirk, Kirk was merely a passenger on SPOCK'S ship. You see, Spock would of been well within his rights to retain command and simply transport Kirk to where Starfleet told Kirk to go.
Infact a captain of a ship has the power to order an Admiral off his ship and can even use force to do so. Granted it's career suicide unless that captain has a damn good reason to do so. Also unless an Admiral has a valid reason to usurp command, he actually cannot take direct command away from a Captain. Infact, he'd be stepping on the toes of the Executive officer and that is also career suicide.
Just a few things you all should know. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
I am not sure what custom and courtesy you are quoting but when a senior officer takes command...e doesn't have to ask permission. Commodore Decker didn't ask permission when he took over.
If we use the USN rules of power with Admirals they can and have taken command of ships away from Captains. In my 11 years in the Navy I've seen it twice.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Actually some of you need to learn customs and courtseys. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it. Because while Kirk is an admiral up until Spock deferred command to Kirk, Kirk was merely a passenger on SPOCK'S ship. You see, Spock would of been well within his rights to retain command and simply transport Kirk to where Starfleet told Kirk to go.
Infact a captain of a ship has the power to order an Admiral off his ship and can even use force to do so. Granted it's career suicide unless that captain has a damn good reason to do so. Also unless an Admiral has a valid reason to usurp command, he actually cannot take direct command away from a Captain. Infact, he'd be stepping on the toes of the Executive officer and that is also career suicide.
Just a few things you all should know. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
I am not sure what custom and courtesy you are quoting but when a senior officer takes command...e doesn't have to ask permission. Commodore Decker didn't ask permission when he took over.
If we use the USN rules of power with Admirals they can and have taken command of ships away from Captains. In my 11 years in the Navy I've seen it twice.
Again the Captain usually has to TRIBBLE up by the numbers and that Admiral has to have justification to do so. And again that's basically stepping not only on the Captain, but also on the XO.
An Admiral simply can't walk in, and just say "ok ship is mine now, toddle off." Remember that admiral is a guest aboard that ship. Again the Captain does retain the right to order a flag officer off his/her ship, but again usually has to have a good reasoning to do so.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
KIRK
Something may be wrong at Regula
I. We've been ordered to investigate.
SPOCK
Regula I is a scientific research
laboratory, if memory serves...
KIRK
I told Starfleet all we had was a
boatload of children but we're the
only ship in the quadrant. Spock:
those cadets of yours -- how good
are they? How will they respond
under real pressure?
SPOCK
Like all living beings, Admiral
each according to his gifts. The
ship is yours.
KIRK
That won't be necessary: just take
me to Regula I.
SPOCK
Excuse my presumption, but I do not
agree. As a teacher on a training
mission, I am content to command a
Starship. If we are to go on actual
duty, it is clear that the senior
officer aboard must assume command.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
And before he got that order to do so, he went and talked to Spock. Because had he not done that, it would of crashed and burned Spock's career.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
And before he got that order to do so, he went and talked to Spock. Because had he not done that, it would of crashed and burned Spock's career.
Um no he didn't. He talked to Star Fleet Command right after he got the message from Carol:
CAROL
... Please help us, Jim... won't
let them have... without proper...
repeat... on whose authority...
KIRK
Carol!
CAROL
Jim please --
But the picture is irrevocably scrambled now. Kirk
pounds the Comm in frustration.
KIRK
Uhura! What's happening? Damn
it...
UHURA'S VOICE
Transmission jammed at the source,
sir.
KIRK
Damn. Alert Starfleet Headquarters.
I want to talk with Starfleet
Command.
Hence:
KIRK
Something may be wrong at Regula
I. We've been ordered to investigate.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen. By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
And before he got that order to do so, he went and talked to Spock. Because had he not done that, it would of crashed and burned Spock's career.
Um no he didn't. He talked to Star Fleet Command right after he got the message from Carol:
CAROL
... Please help us, Jim... won't
let them have... without proper...
repeat... on whose authority...
KIRK
Carol!
CAROL
Jim please --
But the picture is irrevocably scrambled now. Kirk
pounds the Comm in frustration.
KIRK
Uhura! What's happening? Damn
it...
UHURA'S VOICE
Transmission jammed at the source,
sir.
KIRK
Damn. Alert Starfleet Headquarters.
I want to talk with Starfleet
Command.
Hence:
KIRK
Something may be wrong at Regula
I. We've been ordered to investigate.
Yes I've seen the WoK more times than I can count and at that point Kirk was not ordered to take command, just get to Regulus, it wasn't until AFTER Spock told Kirk to take command that Kirk got the ok from starfleet and assumed command.
Good god man, an admiral cannot simply walk up to the captain of the ship and just say "Ship is mine." It's called "unlawful usurpation of command". And even an Admiral can be charged with it.
Again read back and look. Kirk wasn't even attempting to take command. After talking to starfleet command, Kirk was merely telling Spock there is a problem at Regulus, we've been ordered to take a look. All Kirk was doing was telling the lawful commander of the Enterprise of new orders and that they had to go.
Spock could of merely said "Ok, we'll set course now admiral, let you know when we get there." And Spock would of retained command. Wasn't until when spock says about being a teacher, then deferring to the senior officer. Spock didn't have to do that. He could just said like I already did, "OK admiral, I'll have the enterprise set course, now go twiddle your thumbs till we get there."
You really don't understand lawful ship command don't you?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
You really don't understand lawful ship command don't you?
Guys, I worked my butt off to attain the rank of Fleet Admiral in STO. So I'm going to butt my high ranking nose into this discussion to tell both of you, also Fleet Admirals, from one Fleet Admiral to another Fleet Admiral, that I am the actual hero of STO and the game tells all its stories about me and my voyages as Fleet Admiral of the USS [REDACTED].
So let's just chit chat on subspace about how awesome my fleet admiraling skills are, k?
You really don't understand lawful ship command don't you?
Guys, I worked my butt off to attain the rank of Fleet Admiral in STO. So I'm going to butt my high ranking nose into this discussion to tell both of you, also Fleet Admirals, from one Fleet Admiral to another Fleet Admiral, that I am the actual hero of STO and the game tells all its stories about me and my voyages as Fleet Admiral of the USS [REDACTED].
So let's just chit chat on subspace about how awesome my fleet admiraling skills are, k?
If you say so. But I'm no Fleet Admiral. Just a rear admiral in charge of a carrier task force. That's it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Since the game no longer supports MAC I have been on extended leave on Risa
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
The thing is, rank is part of the leveling system, it doesn't really give you much of a feel for your progression with only three ranks.
I think the biggest issue is the time scale. It took Kirk about 30 years to go from Lieutenant to Commodore, in the game it takes one year to go from two ranks lower to four ranks higher.
Also, I'm not too sure about Fleet Captain, it seems like a title more than a rank to me. Pike only wore captain's stripes and I can't think of any other example of one. Not even in the Dominion War where it would have been a perfect rank for Sisko if one existed.
Tag me in it so I notice it please. My Romulan crew is a bit basic at the moment, it has Romulans, Vulcans, Remans and Hirogen at the moment, but I have been planning to add a Deferi or two but really can't be bothered to use my imagination at all
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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admirals do the behind the scenes stuff later in life, they move personnel around, they generate and issue order to captains, they are responsible for any type of hearing or court-martials. when an admiral does come out to command a ship which isnt very often, like admiral hanson at wolf 359, he took command of a fleet to go out there and try to repel the borg attack. it didnt work, but he wouldnt be the only admiral to come out of starfleet command either on earth or at any starbase the federation have, hanson was based out of starbase 324.
admiral nechayev usually came out personally to attend to matters either too sensitive or requiring a personal presence to make it know what she wants done, with sisko and picard, she left no real room for them to disagree before she has to rush off to the next task.
admiral ross was another flag officer to come out of his bunker at starbase 375 in order to lead several fleets against an aggressive threat from the dominion.
but for the rest of the time they are hold up in their own starbases, fortresses on allied worlds and just making sure starfleet remains smoothly ran.
Those admirals seen on screen are very hands off with trying to take command with the exception to one or two who were looking to twist things to their own ends with an unknown hook or angle.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The "catalogue or criteria" is that we have seen Admiralty command thier own ships in the shows and movies, we need nothing else. In this game, our character is the "ultimate hero", and showered with awards, medals, and promotions to the highest ranks possible in thier "universe".
As far as proposing/supporting a "structure", "personal choice" is all that is being used in this thread, with "rules lawyering" and "cherry picking", as supposed support for thier personal choice to be considered as "fact", and then "moving of the goal posts" when a valid point that is contradictory is made.
Yes, most leaders in the show were the rank of Captain but we saw examples of other leaders, who were Commodores and Admiralty, commanding a ship as well. Its one thing to say that your personal choice would be to cap yourself at tthe rank of Captain but its disingenuous to suggest an in-game cap based off of only slivers of history, and show/movie canon to press Cryptic to have the game force your preference upon the player population, who may or may not agree/disagree/not care, about your preferences.
The films repeatedly drive home the point that the rank of captain is where the action is. This has come from Kirk repeatedly. And culminates in Kirk's nexus speech to Picard.
It's a definite theme about the difference between being an "Admiral" and being a "Captain."
It's not like this idea of being demoted, or being just referred to as captain is coming out of thin air. It's people reacting to a very specific theme that the is directly in the entire arc of Kirk's character throughout his films.
Kirk is Peter Pan. He doesn't have a fear of the Admiralty, he has a fear of growing up, of taking responsibility and that manifests as not wanting a promotion. Kirk's fear of age is the theme throughout the films.
As I pointed out before, Sisko, Janeway, and Archer all accepted their promotions like the grown up boys and girls they were.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Actually some of you need to learn customs and courtseys. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it. Because while Kirk is an admiral up until Spock deferred command to Kirk, Kirk was merely a passenger on SPOCK'S ship. You see, Spock would of been well within his rights to retain command and simply transport Kirk to where Starfleet told Kirk to go.
Infact a captain of a ship has the power to order an Admiral off his ship and can even use force to do so. Granted it's career suicide unless that captain has a damn good reason to do so. Also unless an Admiral has a valid reason to usurp command, he actually cannot take direct command away from a Captain. Infact, he'd be stepping on the toes of the Executive officer and that is also career suicide.
Just a few things you all should know. Kirk could only take command because Spock allowed it.
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That's a very week argument, rogue isn't a rank, Admiralty ranks are.
Lets put it this way, the notion of limiting players to the rank of Captain, by certain people who suffer some sort of micro-aggression every-time the game refers to the current structures rank, is to limit the ranks currently available to players, some of which are happy with the structure, as-is.
Even trying to limit the ranks within the "TOS Faction" is still limiting the players attainment, parallel to the tradition 2409-2410 Starfleet rank structure (which I serious believe the characters of the two "factions" will eventually coincide with each other, which wont make sense. This is where the anti-Admirals" will further demand to lower the ranks of the 25 century Starfleet to match (and you cant tell me that wont happen). Either way this "movement", just as any of the other "Captain-capping" thread, in reality want to take someone else's choice away in order to suit themselves.
The "anti-Admirals" might say "It's just a title, live with it, our way is better", to which I would say, "Admiralty ranks are just title, live with it, and let Cryptic devote resources to something more useful, and wont intrude on people who are happy with the way it is."
Much like the whole argument over the DPS range being too wide, people want to remove the upper ends, to satisfy themselves, while taking away from someone else, who is fine with the current outcomes.
If you want enough power over your characters story, to keep them mediocre to average, that's all you, I think there's a game called Second Life that does that. Part of this MMO's making the player the "Hero" is they can do great things, save the universe once or three times. Whats the point of playing if you want to play in obscurity, charting nebula's?
"I want an average, non-heroic experience, in a game", said no one (except for one person in this thread).
I will say that I have always been fine with correcting the settings to allow a player to cap the rank they are being referred to but never to remove/restrict ranks from those of us that are happy with the status-quo.
He wants his ship and his crew and that's it. He dosn't want any of the responsability of the admiralty.
There is a parallel to STO somewhere in there, maybe.
Care to mention why that's relevant? Also, Archer made Commodore prior to the formation of the Coalition so still on the show, Sisko was promoted to captain during the show and Janeway, I'll give you that one, he rank up happened between VOY S& and Nemesis.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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no, he could do so because starfleet command ORDERED him to do so, as his statement in the post you quoted made abundantly clear
if spock had refused at that point, he would've been court martialed for failure to obey the orders of a superior officer (and i'm not referring to kirk)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
So what if his were never seen. Have you never had to infer something from previous examples?
I would have thought this to be obvious. As a game, STO mirrors the TV shows. So it only makes sense to have our player captains be heroes just like the captains of the TV shows. Not like those characters after the show was over, because that would only apply for the time when the game is over.
But, as I have stated many times, the best solution for the dilemma, in my opinion, is to have the player decide what rank their captain shall have, out of all the options that the game offers.
[/quote]
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Wasn't The Sisko promoted to God?
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Since that's the rank people want to be addressed as ...
No the order was to go to Space Station Regulus 1, Kirk was never ordered by starfleet to take command of the Enterprise.
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KIRK
An emergency situation has arisen.
By order of Starfleet Command, as
of now, 1800 hours, I am assuming
command of this vessel. Duty officer
so note in the ship's log. Plot a
new course: for Space Laboratory
Regula I.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Something may be wrong at Regula
I. We've been ordered to investigate.
SPOCK
Regula I is a scientific research
laboratory, if memory serves...
KIRK
I told Starfleet all we had was a
boatload of children but we're the
only ship in the quadrant. Spock:
those cadets of yours -- how good
are they? How will they respond
under real pressure?
SPOCK
Like all living beings, Admiral
each according to his gifts. The
ship is yours.
KIRK
That won't be necessary: just take
me to Regula I.
SPOCK
Excuse my presumption, but I do not
agree. As a teacher on a training
mission, I am content to command a
Starship. If we are to go on actual
duty, it is clear that the senior
officer aboard must assume command.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
And before he got that order to do so, he went and talked to Spock. Because had he not done that, it would of crashed and burned Spock's career.
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Um no he didn't. He talked to Star Fleet Command right after he got the message from Carol:
CAROL
... Please help us, Jim... won't
let them have... without proper...
repeat... on whose authority...
KIRK
Carol!
CAROL
Jim please --
But the picture is irrevocably scrambled now. Kirk
pounds the Comm in frustration.
KIRK
Uhura! What's happening? Damn
it...
UHURA'S VOICE
Transmission jammed at the source,
sir.
KIRK
Damn. Alert Starfleet Headquarters.
I want to talk with Starfleet
Command.
Hence:
KIRK
Something may be wrong at Regula
I. We've been ordered to investigate.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Yes I've seen the WoK more times than I can count and at that point Kirk was not ordered to take command, just get to Regulus, it wasn't until AFTER Spock told Kirk to take command that Kirk got the ok from starfleet and assumed command.
Good god man, an admiral cannot simply walk up to the captain of the ship and just say "Ship is mine." It's called "unlawful usurpation of command". And even an Admiral can be charged with it.
Again read back and look. Kirk wasn't even attempting to take command. After talking to starfleet command, Kirk was merely telling Spock there is a problem at Regulus, we've been ordered to take a look. All Kirk was doing was telling the lawful commander of the Enterprise of new orders and that they had to go.
Spock could of merely said "Ok, we'll set course now admiral, let you know when we get there." And Spock would of retained command. Wasn't until when spock says about being a teacher, then deferring to the senior officer. Spock didn't have to do that. He could just said like I already did, "OK admiral, I'll have the enterprise set course, now go twiddle your thumbs till we get there."
You really don't understand lawful ship command don't you?
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Guys, I worked my butt off to attain the rank of Fleet Admiral in STO. So I'm going to butt my high ranking nose into this discussion to tell both of you, also Fleet Admirals, from one Fleet Admiral to another Fleet Admiral, that I am the actual hero of STO and the game tells all its stories about me and my voyages as Fleet Admiral of the USS [REDACTED].
So let's just chit chat on subspace about how awesome my fleet admiraling skills are, k?
If you say so. But I'm no Fleet Admiral. Just a rear admiral in charge of a carrier task force. That's it.
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.