In honor of TOS: Captain rank cap

captainhunter1

So, to honor the tradition of Captain being the hero rank in TOS (and every TV series afterward ), could we please have our TOS character's rank titles, NOT levels, capped at Captain (with those who hold Fleet (guild) ownership status able to gain the TITLE of Commodore). For those who reach level 60, the title of Fleet Captain unlocks.

The dev team still has several months to implement this, and it would be an awesome tribute to the Original Series.

snoggymack22

I support this idea.

And must say, wow, I'd consider switching my main to a brand new character if that happened.

rattler2

Pretty sure the Dahar Masters will object.

angrytarg

A lot of people would like a captain cap and commodore and fleet captain ranks. A lot of people would like the status quo. Since you can't take things away from people, status quo remains - as it has been for the last six years.​​

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tessaravejgan

No thx. Think god of death would be more appropriate or at least grim reaper title would be nice. 1 of my chars alone has slaughtered tens of millions by now.

snoggymack22

angrytarg wrote: »

Since you can't take things away from people, status quo remains - as it has been for the last six years.​​

I can't wait to get home from work today so I can hop on STO, and go run some Aid the Planet missions in the B'Tran cluster!

Oh wait ...

kurumimorishita

I think the only way of ever getting a true "Captain" rank again would be, if they raise(!) the cap and make the "final" rank: "Captain (Demoted)"

k20vtec

Good idea!

thescottyb

kurumimorishita wrote: »

I think the only way of ever getting a true "Captain" rank again would be, if they raise(!) the cap and make the "final" rank: "Captain (Demoted)"

Anything else is a waste of material.

johnnymo1

how about actually throwing commodore into the ranks before fleet admiral?

starcruiser

OP why don't you just RP and "pretend" to be a Captain and leave it alone. Some people do that.

Just speaking for myself but this is the Worst Idea Ever and was brought up before with no success in the past. I do not support it and actually like to be a Fleet Admiral.​​

artan42

Again no. I did not single handedly end the Iconian War to be rank caped at Commodore. Even Fleet Admiral is too low a rank for achievements of the majesty preformed by my charcter.

jorantomalak

And what about Pikes wheelchair *Beep*

captainhunter1

angrytarg wrote: »

A lot of people would like a captain cap and commodore and fleet captain ranks. A lot of people would like the status quo. Since you can't take things away from people, status quo remains - as it has been for the last six years.​​

That's just it, since these TOS characters are NEW characters, nothing is being taken away.

They are simply (and rightfully) honoring TOS by capping the 'action hero' (your new TOS character) at Captain rank - NOT level. They are still going to be able to level to 60 (and by doing so gain Fleet Captain title). So, if anything they are gaining something unique (Fleet Captain and possible Commodore titles) while staying true to the feel and flavor of TOS.

angrytarg

captainhunter1 wrote: »

That's just it, since these TOS characters are NEW characters, nothing is being taken away.

They are simply (and rightfully) honoring TOS by capping the 'action hero' (your new TOS character) at Captain rank - NOT level. They are still going to be able to level to 60 (and by doing so gain Fleet Captain title). So, if anything they are gaining something unique (Fleet Captain and possible Commodore titles) while staying true to the feel and flavor of TOS.

Ah, so a different level title for those new TOS characters? Sorry, I misunderstood - I'd be fine with that. Problem is, you probably have people whining their TOS character can't be fleet admiral then. You always have somebody complaining

snoggymack22 wrote: »

angrytarg wrote: »

Since you can't take things away from people, status quo remains - as it has been for the last six years.

I can't wait to get home from work today so I can hop on STO, and go run some Aid the Planet missions in the B'Tran cluster!

Oh wait ...

They remove game content all the time, but nothing people paid for or "earned" ​​

sharpie65

Actually, Kirk was OiC Starfleet Operations at the time of TMP - if anything, he demoted Captain Decker to first officer (most likely due to his experience in commanding a starship). Kirk was only demoted to captain after the events of Star Trek IV.

brian334

The thing is, I support the idea only in the sense that it's how it 'should' have been done. Now that it is the way it is, changing it would be a disaster.

On a side note, the e-rage would be delicious to that entity from Day Of The Dove episode.

bobbydazlers

captainhunter1 wrote: »

So, to honor the tradition of Captain being the hero rank in TOS (and every TV series afterward ), could we please have our TOS character's rank titles, NOT levels, capped at Captain (with those who hold Fleet (guild) ownership status able to gain the TITLE of Commodore). For those who reach level 60, the title of Fleet Captain unlocks.

The dev team still has several months to implement this, and it would be an awesome tribute to the Original Series.

you forget even Kirk made Admiral in the ToS movies and he was still the hero, being a hero has little to do with your title and more to do with your refusal to quit.

if you really don't want to have your ToS character to rank above captain take him to that rank and discard him.

snoggymack22

bobbydazlers wrote: »

you forget even Kirk made Admiral in the ToS movies

One of the longstanding themes that Kirk represented in those movies was that Admiral was a desk job and that Captain was where the action was. It's why a later post in the thread suggests Captain (demoted).

I'm pretty sure the OP is very much aware of Kirk as an Admiral in the movies. However briefly Kirk was that rank.

sharpie65

reyan01 wrote: »

sharpie65 wrote: »

Actually, Kirk was OiC Starfleet Operations at the time of TMP - if anything, he demoted Captain Decker to first officer (most likely due to his experience in commanding a starship). Kirk was only demoted to captain after the events of Star Trek IV.

Kirk was demoted to Captain in TMP, in order to take command of the Enterprise.
macaucabletv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Cinemax-STAR-TREK-THE-MOTION-PICTURE1.jpg (rank insignia)

Quote from Memory Alpha: "After convincing Admiral Nogura that he was the best man to meet the threat, Kirk rushed the Enterprise into service, assuming the rank of captain for the duration of the mission"

There would have been no need for him to demote Decker if he had retained his Admiral rank.

I'll defer to your better knowledge on that matter, however Kirk is still referred to as Admiral Kirk from TWoK to TVH. I could be wrong, but I don't recall him receiving a temporary demotion..as a general rule, "captain" is the position whereas "Captain" is the rank - your characters ingame have been referred to as "captain" whilst holding the rank of LtCmdr/Cmdr/Rear Admiral/Vice Admiral/Admiral/Fleet Admiral; the only time you have been referred to as "Captain" is between levels 30 and 40. As stated above though, I could be wrong.

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jade1280

Muhahahahahahahaa


/support

sharpie65

reyan01 wrote: »

sharpie65 wrote: »

reyan01 wrote: »

sharpie65 wrote: »

Actually, Kirk was OiC Starfleet Operations at the time of TMP - if anything, he demoted Captain Decker to first officer (most likely due to his experience in commanding a starship). Kirk was only demoted to captain after the events of Star Trek IV.

Kirk was demoted to Captain in TMP, in order to take command of the Enterprise.
macaucabletv.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Cinemax-STAR-TREK-THE-MOTION-PICTURE1.jpg (rank insignia)

Quote from Memory Alpha: "After convincing Admiral Nogura that he was the best man to meet the threat, Kirk rushed the Enterprise into service, assuming the rank of captain for the duration of the mission"

There would have been no need for him to demote Decker if he had retained his Admiral rank.

I'll defer to your better knowledge on that matter, however Kirk is still referred to as Admiral Kirk from TWoK to TVH. I could be wrong, but I don't recall him receiving a temporary demotion..as a general rule, "captain" is the position whereas "Captain" is the rank - your characters ingame have been referred to as "captain" whilst holding the rank of LtCmdr/Cmdr/Rear Admiral/Vice Admiral/Admiral/Fleet Admiral; the only time you have been referred to as "Captain" is between levels 30 and 40. As stated above though, I could be wrong.

TWOK onward he was never 'officially' the Enterprise's commanding officer:

TWOK: Whilst he was an Admiral, he wasn't the Enterprise's commanding officer - Captain Spock was. He was aboard the Enterprise to observe the Cadet training cruise. Captain Spock deferred to him due to their friendship and the fact that the circumstances (ship crewed by Cadets) were far from ideal.

TSfS: He stole the Enterprise. That doesn't count.

And he was demoted back to Captain before taking command of the 1701-A

A fair point, but I have another way of putting that last post of mine.

One can hold the rank of Commander, yet not be the commanding officer/commander of their vessel; on the flipside, you can call yourself the commander of your ship but hold the rank of Captain, LtC, or otherwise.

However, I admit defeat - you presented a well-versed argument without resorting to name-calling (rather surprising, considering the forums these days).

yreodred

I wholeheartly support the OP suggestion.
I think it depends on how TOS will be integrated into STO.
Will it be a Romulan faction 2.0 or rather just a character based thing like the Delta event?
If it's a afilliated faction thing, i can very much imagine a own rank structure, similar like romulan characters have.

sharpie65

Regarding the "Admiral taking command", I'm reminded of one of the last scenes in "Down Periscope" - the jerk-nugget Admiral states to the CO/bridge crew of the nuclear submarine he's aboard (I forget the name) "the admiral has the conn", shortly before the USS Stingray fires torpedoes at the condemned ship in US Naval Base Norfolk* ("You're not a superior officer, sir, just a higher ranking one!" - one of the more memorable lines from that film, IMO ).

It may be that the TOS/TMP-era was written out to be largely based on the 20th Century US Navy, but I have very little knowledge of that particular field.

*I was going to go into an anecdote about that entire scene, but thought better of it.

ashrod63

It definitely makes sense. By 2409/10, Admirals are routinely commanding ships, in 2270 that definitely was not the case so it makes sense to stylise the ranks to match this.

I think we may need to have something like this:

1 - Ensign
3 - Lieutenant Junior Grade
10 - Lieutenant
20 - Lieutenant Commander
30 - Commander
40 - Captain
50 - Fleet Captain
60 - Commodore

That fills the gaps up in the ranking system by removing Admirals, which are in-universe a no go. I've added Fleet Captain and Commodore because we have the Admiralty System to think of, with those two ranks we can remain in command of a ship but still be bossing other captains around.

farshore

You folks need to understand that Admiral is just a rank. It is not a specific job. An Admiral can do many things, not even specifically related to the command of ships. There are admirals that deal in communications, logistics, special forces. We're fleet admirals who's job it is to represent and generally kick TRIBBLE. If anyone tries to pull rank on us while we're doing our job, we're basically covered.

ashrod63

farshore wrote: »

You folks need to understand that Admiral is just a rank. It is not a specific job. An Admiral can do many things, not even specifically related to the command of ships. There are admirals that deal in communications, logistics, special forces. We're fleet admirals who's job it is to represent and generally kick TRIBBLE. If anyone tries to pull rank on us while we're doing our job, we're basically covered.

Of course they can, but that doesn't change the fact we know how things worked in the Starfleet of the 2270s and that Admirals were not normally serving as commanding officers, they were dealing with things like logistics, special forces, paperwork, etc.

In 2410 things are different of course, but if we become an Admiral in 2270 and still fly around in a ship it breaks the canon of the show and movies, because Kirk would have just pointed our captain out in the movies, which he obviously didn't do.

sharpie65

You all seem to be forgetting one key fact: by 2409, and definitely by 2410, the Federation was fighting a hot war on multiple fronts - the Borg, Undine/Species 8472, the Klingons. In the 23rd Century, it was largely a "Cold War" with the Enterprise merely defending herself against attacks by opportunistic (and most likely rogue) elements of the Klingon Empire and Romulans.

Because of the losses of command-capable officers - due to assimilation, Undine replacement, or being KIA - promising cadets/warriors/civilians (i.e. your characters) are being pushed out with a commission and several rapid and subsequent promotions for feats of bravery and skill - what better way to repay those characters?

It's also a way of giving you access to higher-tier/"more powerful" ships, since the better ships are usually reserved for superior/higher ranking officers.

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