The TMP uniforms do look pretty good with a variant color scheme - I use a set on one of my crews. (I used division color on the main body of the tunic, with black on the outboard portions. I also used Odyssey pants and shoes.)
Other hand, I don't mind these uniforms, although I'd probably change the color scheme. And the rank pips on the badge seem a bit difficult to see until you're right up to the officer - at a distance, it seems to me you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a captain and an ensign, so at, say, a starbase you'd spend a lot of your time either saluting ensigns or being chewed out for ignoring captains... With luck, they'll decide eventually to introduce the sleeve stripes, which I think would work well with this uni.
At least traditionally, people don't salute in Star Trek, so that might not be a problem, @jonsills.
But maybe this points to a reason why the uniforms change so much in Star Trek - they find flaws in the design and rework them. The rank pips on the delta seem a neat combination, but might indeed be far too subtle, even with the color hints.
I think I like it, and look forward to the time they become available in STO. (The costume pack sales are so useless, the only ones I don't own are those flight suits, and they don't interest me at all.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
(...) a starbase you'd spend a lot of your time either saluting ensigns or being chewed out for ignoring captains... (...)
Luckily that's not an issue with Starfleet
I was mistaken about the rank insignia, I assumed it was the rings around the shoulder. But having them on the badge is not much better. It feels to me they try way to hard to make this one "different" to stand out but it makes not much sense and the overall design is way to busy with metallic highlights - colour coded soles, really? I don't want anyone to complain about 60s fashion but yet find these uniforms to be in any way "modern" or "practical"
I like the transporter room, it looks reasonably primitive and the accompanying text explains it well and if those are really laser guns I'd be happy about that A vest for away missions makes sense, I always thought that TOS security needed to wear exactly that. They got it in TMP onward, it'd be great to have that in STO.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Indeed. I'm more worried about today's writing and pacing of a show than I am with the sets. Because maybe we actually get to see a modernized TOS interior at some point, the primitive transporter and the maybe lasergun seems to somewhat try to fit in the chronologic. The uniform is way, way off but if the TOS bridge gets updated with touchscreens and better materials I can see it being more modern than the sets we got a glimpse at right now. I could imagine TOS being at a stage of technological sophistication that comfort, bright hallways etc. become something Starfleet begins to work with while ships before are more robust and functional. The NX and appearantly the Shenzou still have handles for the case of failing gravity. In a connie that seems to be of very little concern, for example.
Yes I am trying to make it make sense, I would have been thrilled with modern TOS sets. But we'll see where this goes.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
It's a bunch of Star Trek 'fans' and this is something new. I think I use the correct word
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
As for the transporter room itself I'm unsure. I don't think we saw the one on the Kelvin but all transporters from the Franklin to the NX to the KT and onwards into TOS and beyond all look the same. The dishes are on the floor or an open round bay. Perhaps it's experimental, perhaps it's just a weird phase like the windows on the Kelvin era and KT ships or the split hulls of some of the DS9 era ships that don't really go anywhere and stick out from the norm. Still it suits the aesthetics so I'm happy enough to wait and see them in action.
As for the uniforms. As I said before, if they weren't metallic is like them better. Gold and bronze are a little hard to tell apart in certain lighting. Maybe if they'd gone for, say, red orange and green for the colours they'll stand out more. The rest of the uniform in happy with. The tanks seem to resemble those from the alternate timeline with an old Picard and they had bars under their combadges.
@jonsills the reason the TMP uniform looks so good in-game is because it's the Admirals version and that was the only one in the entire film that looked like a human being could bare the shame of wearing one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@artan42 TWOK era enlisted wore the TMP unis, albeit recoloured xD
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
@artan42 TWOK era enlisted wore the TMP unis, albeit recoloured xD
I know. But a combination of being in the background, h aveing two tone colours, and looser fits made them more acceptable.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Regarding the new uniform... That's a LOT of Starfleet Deltas... Approaching WH40K Space Wolf levels of overbranding.
Not pictured in the uniform image:
Starfleet Phaser:
Starfleet Security Helmet:
Starfleet Regulation Sunglasses:
Space Barbie Extraordinaire. Got a question about Space Barbie? Just ask.
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
At this point I'm honestly a little shocked they didn't recycle the uniforms from Star Trek 09 and Into Darkness. The movies have already transitioned to the newer Beyond uniforms, so it would make sense for them to try and cut costs with existing well made movie costumes.
Indeed. I'm more worried about today's writing and pacing of a show than I am with the sets. Because maybe we actually get to see a modernized TOS interior at some point, the primitive transporter and the maybe lasergun seems to somewhat try to fit in the chronologic. The uniform is way, way off but if the TOS bridge gets updated with touchscreens and better materials I can see it being more modern than the sets we got a glimpse at right now. I could imagine TOS being at a stage of technological sophistication that comfort, bright hallways etc. become something Starfleet begins to work with while ships before are more robust and functional. The NX and appearantly the Shenzou still have handles for the case of failing gravity. In a connie that seems to be of very little concern, for example.
Yes I am trying to make it make sense, I would have been thrilled with modern TOS sets. But we'll see where this goes.
For example. I linked the same video a few times already myself, basically every timevsomeone claims it's impossible to make the old designs look good because they are plywood and paint and never can be something else.
The other news however is exactly what may lead to the show simply blending in with like every other show ever these days. Conflict in "modern tv-dramas" is always at risk at being super cringeworthy and constructed. I hope in DSC we'll not simply have people have hate-sex and then pout at each other all the time while sitting in gloomy hallways. I can watch German movies if I like to see some depressing nonsense about people that act nothing like human beings just so they can extend cold misery. The other possibility is that one of the captains will become the grim "do what has to be done" anti"hero" type which is also... *groan*
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
For example. I linked the same video a few times already myself, basically every timevsomeone claims it's impossible to make the old designs look good because they are plywood and paint and never can be something else.
Because it still doesn't. It is still clearly a painted wooden set. The walls have no depth or colour, the lighting is still flat, and the shapes are simplistic and basic. The only way to keep modernise the TOS/TAS aesthetics is to scrap them and rebuild from the general shape which is what they did for the TOS films. If you removed the 70s hairstyles and primitive CRT green wireframe displays from the TWoK bridge it would not clash if used in the next KT film. The bridge from TFF with its full colour displays and touchscreens even more so.
Use the Cage style bridge if the Enterprise or another Constitution appears in the show by all means, I loved the juxtaposition in 'Trials and Tribbleations' and 'In a Mirror Darkly' but those are but three episodes, it just would't fly for a full series.
At this point I'm honestly a little shocked they didn't recycle the uniforms from Star Trek 09 and Into Darkness. The movies have already transitioned to the newer Beyond uniforms, so it would make sense for them to try and cut costs with existing well made movie costumes.
Because DSC is set at least 10 years (I can't remeber the stardate of 09) prior to the main action of 09. Also Paramount more than likely own the patterns specific to those uniforms so CBS would have buy them.
The other news however is exactly what may lead to the show simply blending in with like every other show ever these days. Conflict in "modern tv-dramas" is always at risk at being super cringeworthy and constructed. I hope in DSC we'll not simply have people have hate-sex and then pout at each other all the time while sitting in gloomy hallways. I can watch German movies if I like to see some depressing nonsense about people that act nothing like human beings just so they can extend cold misery. The other possibility is that one of the captains will become the grim "do what has to be done" anti"hero" type which is also... *groan*
The other news is baldly written clickbait. Roddenberry's so called 'no conflict rule' existed for TMP and S1-2 of TNG. The TOS films, DS9, ENT, and KT films ignored them completely, TOS/TAS was back before Roddenberry created his beige, stagnant, 'utopia' so the characters interacted like humans. Later TNG was similar to TOS where characters would go against orders or get into disputes. VGR is odd, there was no rule for limiting conflict beyond B&B's insistence it be TNG in the Delta Quadrant despite Moore setting up the Marquis for them. However there were minor hostilities and conflicts present on the rare occasion characters that weren't Janeway, The Doctor, or 7 got focus.
Edit: I haven't seen this posted yet...
Post edited by artan42 on
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
You do know that all Trek sets are painted wood, don't you?
Yes. If you read you'll see I said 'still clearly a painted wooden set.' i.e. it still looks like painted wood. I'm not sure how that's not clear to you. The obvious implication here being that the other bridges do not look like painted wood. Most look metallic, some look plastic, others even look like plaster.
I'm sorry, do you need that to be written in every post somebody makes? I don't represent anybody but myself therefor am not speaking for anybody except myself.
But for sake of argument (as you seem to enjoy causing as evidence by this post where you clearly don't bother reading) do you want to go take a DVD of 'The Cage' to a bunch of modern teenagers and conduct a poll of their opinions of it's suitability and engagement for a full 2017 sci-fi series aimed at them?
I await your results.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That's not what that pointless wall of text you just deleted said.
Though, yes, not having the painted wood look like painted wood does make it better, because it means your ship doesn't look like it's made of wood. So yes, it is a criticism of early sci-fi, or rather of TOS set design. And no there's no issue with me criticising it in the slightest which also makes you come across as a hypocrite considering all you'e done so far is criticise DSC set design so it's probably for the best you deleted your post.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
That's not what that pointless wall of text you just deleted said.
Though, yes, not having the painted wood look like painted wood does make it better, because it means your ship doesn't look like it's made of wood. So yes, it is a criticism of early sci-fi, or rather of TOS set design. And no there's no issue with me criticising it in the slightest which also makes you come across as a hypocrite considering all you'e done so far is criticise DSC set design so it's probably for the best you deleted your post.
That's not what that pointless wall of text you just deleted said.
Though, yes, not having the painted wood look like painted wood does make it better, because it means your ship doesn't look like it's made of wood. So yes, it is a criticism of early sci-fi, or rather of TOS set design. And no there's no issue with me criticising it in the slightest which also makes you come across as a hypocrite considering all you'e done so far is criticise DSC set design so it's probably for the best you deleted your post.
And I deleted it, because like I said, I can't be bothered to argue. Yet here you are, keeping the argument going, and by referring to something which I deliberately deleted to prevent the argument continuing. As you've done so, I'll address a point for you:
I wasn't criticising Discovery's set design because of any lack of quality. I'm observing that it isn't the right set design for the era and Timeline they are insisting that they are writing in. So no, I'm not being hypocritical.
All you're doing, is criticising older set designs for a lack of sophistication, making the assumption that New=Better, and shouting down any opinion other than your own. By your own admission, you 'feel compelled' to do so. Feelings are not arguments nor justifications for them.
Instead of arguing with other posters, please present your ideas and your views and let the other guy have his say.
I happen to like the TOS look. It's clean, bright, and while orange isn't my favorite accent color for interior design, it served the need for bright solid colors which were easy to see even on primitive color crt technology transmitted via VHF or UHF radio signals.
I happen to like the TNG look both because it was appropriate for its time and because it made a clear statement: This Is Not TOS!
The fact that follow-up series used a similar look to TNG was in part because they were produced by the same team who worked on TNG. However, they did diverge in many ways from the TNG look, and while I didn't appreciate the dark rooms and shadowed actors, it was a product of the times, with Trek going up against shows with much darker themes. I at least understood the artistic choices even though I didn't agree with them.
So far, as I have said before, while I don't appreciate some of what I've seen, I don't really believe I've seen enough to really judge how it comes together. I'll wait to see it in full before I decide if the uniforms are appropriate, or if the look of the transporter conforms to the design of the rest of the ship.
This series was never, NEVER, going to look like TOS & that does not make it a reboot.
What? Of course it is a reboot! The premise makes it a reboot, not the sets.
Pan-dimensional Sarek's allow them to explore "multiple parallel continuities" that have nothing to do with previous Star Trek shows, movies, or characters. It's the USS Kelvin all over again.
Being a reboot is not automatically "bad". It's just different. I personally dislike the premise, but I am not going to claim that Star Trek: Discovery is not Star Trek. I also dislike every TNG Movie, and they are obviously Star Trek.
Oh it is, it's like a spotters guide for almost everything you post.
So in a (possibly) vain attempt to see if the argument will break as the guy who keeps pretending he's going to be the one to stop replying then predictably goes on to reply, I'll talk about the image I posted.
The latest image of our hero ship.
Much improved in proportions from the first reveal, the longer nacelles and shorter hull balance it out more.
The new grey colour is far better than the bronze. The hull texture also resembles that of the NX and Kelvin ships selling that primitive look.
The triangular hull is somewhat reminiscent of the Franklin, Emmett and Warp Delta which is a nice nod back to some basic pioneer designs suggesting an experimental ship.
The saucer has a ring of negative space around the central module which resembles a globe rather than a cylinder, both traits are reminiscent of the Dreadnought Class. The visual similarities are more obvious as the blue tint of the poster makes the grey hull look black.
The nacelles are more rounded now and bare a certain resemblance to those of the Kelvin and Newton etc. which is good as those are the ships directly proceeding this one.
There is a lot of detailing on the wings, something I don't think we've seen to that extreme except on the Franklin. It may just be standard Aztecing and the colour filter is throwing the balance off highlighting what should be relief as detail.
The name looks a little last minute and not as a final copy. Especially as it's missing the redgestry number.
Essentially, like the bridge and corridors we've seen, this ship looks exactly what a ship of that era should look like, like a descendent of the Kelvin (Mayflower, Armstrong, etc.) and of older ships like the Franklin or NX. This goes right down to the angular corridors and hull panelling.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Yes, that "no conflict" thing is definitely purely TNG. Remember Kirk and Undersecretary Barris in "The Trouble With Tribbles"? Or Lt. Stiles in "Balance of Terror", who was more than willing to transfer his prejudice toward Romulans to Spock after they got the visual from the Rom ship's bridge? How about the interactions of Commodore Stocker with the rest of the crew in "The Deadly Years"? And that's just off the top of my head.
The TOS sets were a wonderful design - for 1960s-era CRT televisions, so terribly fuzzy by modern standards. With today's high-definition sets being so common you can't even get a so-called "standard def" TV any more, we need to aim higher. (On the other hand, the one glimpse we've had of the captain's chair of the Discovery, in a publicity still, looks kind of like the chair in that CGI render...)
This series was never, NEVER, going to look like TOS & that does not make it a reboot.
What? Of course it is a reboot! The premise makes it a reboot, not the sets.
Pan-dimensional Sarek's allow them to explore "multiple parallel continuities" that have nothing to do with previous Star Trek shows, movies, or characters. It's the USS Kelvin all over again.
Being a reboot is not automatically "bad". It's just different. I personally dislike the premise, but I am not going to claim that Star Trek: Discovery is not Star Trek. I also dislike every TNG Movie, and they are obviously Star Trek.
Saying that Discovery is set 10 years before TOS automatically makes it a TOS prequel in the Prime Universe. Therefore, there needs to be a logical progression of the universe shown in TOS originated from Discovery.
Abrams took the easy way out with his whole parallel universe reboot since there is no need to worry about what happened in other Star Trek TV series and movies. The new Star Trek movies could introduce Species 8472, Q, the Dominion, Hirogen, Kazon, or whatever new enemy they want without any problem, but Discovery has too many restrictions on what they can do.
Or they just retcon the hell out of TOS like every other show afterwards did including TOS itself. Not a problem.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
TMP Klingons looked different from TOS Klingons not because Roddenberry wanted to introduce a virus that contained human genes which aggressively rewrote Klingon DNA, but because Klingons always looked that way.
It is a simple matter: when we're being told a story we each imagine the scenery differently. When different storytellers tell the same story they each tell it differently. When moviemakers tell the same story, not only do they show it differently, they go to great lengths to show the differences.
Compare the 1953 version of Titanic to the 2007 version. Under the premise of the OP, the newer version should look exactly like the older because both attempt to tell a story around the exact same historical event. But there are dozens of Titanic films of various quality, and all of them have a distinct look. Which one is right?
So the idea that a filmmaker would adhere to a design used in another's work is an idea which derives outside of real world experience.
And just because it looks different in the Historical Document doesn't mean it was different 'when it happened.' Their aesthetic didn't change, just the materials available to the historical reenactors.
In the case of the Klingons and their ever evolving looks, I think their appearance is less important than how they are used in the story. In the jump from TOS to TNG Roddenberry dramatically altered the way the Klingons behaved. When they were first introduced the Klingons were much more like the Cardassians, tempering their aggression with cunning and sophistication. The TNG Klingon's on the other hand were turned into belligerent space Vikings whose sophistication was replaced with snarling and howling. Sadly that change became permanent, even being reflected in their behavior in the 22nd century.
No matter how they might look in Discovery, it is almost a certainty that they won't behave anything like the Klingon's from TOS.
the change in their personality was done at michael dorn's insistence; he wanted klingons to be an honor culture with elements of the japanese samurai
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
TMP Klingons looked different from TOS Klingons not because Roddenberry wanted to introduce a virus that contained human genes which aggressively rewrote Klingon DNA, but because Klingons always looked that way.
It is a simple matter: when we're being told a story we each imagine the scenery differently. When different storytellers tell the same story they each tell it differently. When moviemakers tell the same story, not only do they show it differently, they go to great lengths to show the differences.
Compare the 1953 version of Titanic to the 2007 version. Under the premise of the OP, the newer version should look exactly like the older because both attempt to tell a story around the exact same historical event. But there are dozens of Titanic films of various quality, and all of them have a distinct look. Which one is right?
So the idea that a filmmaker would adhere to a design used in another's work is an idea which derives outside of real world experience.
And just because it looks different in the Historical Document doesn't mean it was different 'when it happened.' Their aesthetic didn't change, just the materials available to the historical reenactors.
I don't think the Titanic reference works well. In each film about Titanic the Titanic itself never changed to fit the times. By that logic the next Titanic film should star a Carnival Cruise line ship.
Comments
Other hand, I don't mind these uniforms, although I'd probably change the color scheme. And the rank pips on the badge seem a bit difficult to see until you're right up to the officer - at a distance, it seems to me you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a captain and an ensign, so at, say, a starbase you'd spend a lot of your time either saluting ensigns or being chewed out for ignoring captains... With luck, they'll decide eventually to introduce the sleeve stripes, which I think would work well with this uni.
But maybe this points to a reason why the uniforms change so much in Star Trek - they find flaws in the design and rework them. The rank pips on the delta seem a neat combination, but might indeed be far too subtle, even with the color hints.
I think I like it, and look forward to the time they become available in STO. (The costume pack sales are so useless, the only ones I don't own are those flight suits, and they don't interest me at all.)
Luckily that's not an issue with Starfleet
I was mistaken about the rank insignia, I assumed it was the rings around the shoulder. But having them on the badge is not much better. It feels to me they try way to hard to make this one "different" to stand out but it makes not much sense and the overall design is way to busy with metallic highlights - colour coded soles, really? I don't want anyone to complain about 60s fashion but yet find these uniforms to be in any way "modern" or "practical"
I like the transporter room, it looks reasonably primitive and the accompanying text explains it well and if those are really laser guns I'd be happy about that
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Nevermind, apparently I missed the link a few posts before. Looks interesting.
Yes I am trying to make it make sense, I would have been thrilled with modern TOS sets. But we'll see where this goes.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
It's a bunch of Star Trek 'fans' and this is something new. I think I use the correct word
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
As for the uniforms. As I said before, if they weren't metallic is like them better. Gold and bronze are a little hard to tell apart in certain lighting. Maybe if they'd gone for, say, red orange and green for the colours they'll stand out more. The rest of the uniform in happy with. The tanks seem to resemble those from the alternate timeline with an old Picard and they had bars under their combadges.
@jonsills the reason the TMP uniform looks so good in-game is because it's the Admirals version and that was the only one in the entire film that looked like a human being could bare the shame of wearing one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I know. But a combination of being in the background, h aveing two tone colours, and looser fits made them more acceptable.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Not pictured in the uniform image:
Starfleet Phaser:
Starfleet Security Helmet:
Starfleet Regulation Sunglasses:
Things I want in STO:
1) More character customization options such as more clothing options, letting the toon complexion affect the entire body, not just the head. Also a true RGB color picker applied to all costume and appearance options, which would allow for true appearance customization and homogenous colors instead of "this same exact color looks vastly different on two different pieces."
2) Bridge customization, not bridge packs. Let us pick a general layout and adjust the color palette, console appearance, and chair types, as well as more ready room layout options.
3) Customizable ground weapons, i.e. The aesthetic look of phaser dual pistols but they shoot antiproton bolts. For obvious reasons this would only apply to standard ground weapons.
4) For the love of Q please revamp Plasma Ground Weapons. They look like demented Supersoakers right now.
5) True Vanity Impulse and Deflector effects similar to Vanity Shields.
6) A greater payout for hitting T6 Reputations. Currently it takes more time and resources to get from T5 to T6 than it does to get from nothing to T5. Make that grind really pay out at the end.
7) Mirrorverse Refugee event similar to AoY/Delta/Gamma, complete with new Mirrorverse recruits for all factions.
8) Independent Faction, because yo ho yo ho a pirate's life for me!
Conflict between crew members incoming
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Like this?
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
The other news however is exactly what may lead to the show simply blending in with like every other show ever these days. Conflict in "modern tv-dramas" is always at risk at being super cringeworthy and constructed. I hope in DSC we'll not simply have people have hate-sex and then pout at each other all the time while sitting in gloomy hallways. I can watch German movies if I like to see some depressing nonsense about people that act nothing like human beings just so they can extend cold misery. The other possibility is that one of the captains will become the grim "do what has to be done" anti"hero" type which is also... *groan*
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Because it still doesn't. It is still clearly a painted wooden set. The walls have no depth or colour, the lighting is still flat, and the shapes are simplistic and basic. The only way to keep modernise the TOS/TAS aesthetics is to scrap them and rebuild from the general shape which is what they did for the TOS films. If you removed the 70s hairstyles and primitive CRT green wireframe displays from the TWoK bridge it would not clash if used in the next KT film. The bridge from TFF with its full colour displays and touchscreens even more so.
Use the Cage style bridge if the Enterprise or another Constitution appears in the show by all means, I loved the juxtaposition in 'Trials and Tribbleations' and 'In a Mirror Darkly' but those are but three episodes, it just would't fly for a full series.
Because DSC is set at least 10 years (I can't remeber the stardate of 09) prior to the main action of 09. Also Paramount more than likely own the patterns specific to those uniforms so CBS would have buy them.
The other news is baldly written clickbait. Roddenberry's so called 'no conflict rule' existed for TMP and S1-2 of TNG. The TOS films, DS9, ENT, and KT films ignored them completely, TOS/TAS was back before Roddenberry created his beige, stagnant, 'utopia' so the characters interacted like humans. Later TNG was similar to TOS where characters would go against orders or get into disputes. VGR is odd, there was no rule for limiting conflict beyond B&B's insistence it be TNG in the Delta Quadrant despite Moore setting up the Marquis for them. However there were minor hostilities and conflicts present on the rare occasion characters that weren't Janeway, The Doctor, or 7 got focus.
Edit: I haven't seen this posted yet...
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In your opinion.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Yes. If you read you'll see I said 'still clearly a painted wooden set.' i.e. it still looks like painted wood. I'm not sure how that's not clear to you. The obvious implication here being that the other bridges do not look like painted wood. Most look metallic, some look plastic, others even look like plaster.
I'm sorry, do you need that to be written in every post somebody makes? I don't represent anybody but myself therefor am not speaking for anybody except myself.
But for sake of argument (as you seem to enjoy causing as evidence by this post where you clearly don't bother reading) do you want to go take a DVD of 'The Cage' to a bunch of modern teenagers and conduct a poll of their opinions of it's suitability and engagement for a full 2017 sci-fi series aimed at them?
I await your results.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
That's not what that pointless wall of text you just deleted said.
Though, yes, not having the painted wood look like painted wood does make it better, because it means your ship doesn't look like it's made of wood. So yes, it is a criticism of early sci-fi, or rather of TOS set design. And no there's no issue with me criticising it in the slightest which also makes you come across as a hypocrite considering all you'e done so far is criticise DSC set design so it's probably for the best you deleted your post.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I wasn't criticising Discovery's set design because of any lack of quality. I'm observing that it isn't the right set design for the era and Timeline they are insisting that they are writing in. So no, I'm not being hypocritical.
All you're doing, is criticising older set designs for a lack of sophistication, making the assumption that New=Better, and shouting down any opinion other than your own. By your own admission, you 'feel compelled' to do so. Feelings are not arguments nor justifications for them.
You may find this helpful/interesting/useful.
Like I said, have a good one
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I happen to like the TOS look. It's clean, bright, and while orange isn't my favorite accent color for interior design, it served the need for bright solid colors which were easy to see even on primitive color crt technology transmitted via VHF or UHF radio signals.
I happen to like the TNG look both because it was appropriate for its time and because it made a clear statement: This Is Not TOS!
The fact that follow-up series used a similar look to TNG was in part because they were produced by the same team who worked on TNG. However, they did diverge in many ways from the TNG look, and while I didn't appreciate the dark rooms and shadowed actors, it was a product of the times, with Trek going up against shows with much darker themes. I at least understood the artistic choices even though I didn't agree with them.
So far, as I have said before, while I don't appreciate some of what I've seen, I don't really believe I've seen enough to really judge how it comes together. I'll wait to see it in full before I decide if the uniforms are appropriate, or if the look of the transporter conforms to the design of the rest of the ship.
Pan-dimensional Sarek's allow them to explore "multiple parallel continuities" that have nothing to do with previous Star Trek shows, movies, or characters. It's the USS Kelvin all over again.
Being a reboot is not automatically "bad". It's just different. I personally dislike the premise, but I am not going to claim that Star Trek: Discovery is not Star Trek. I also dislike every TNG Movie, and they are obviously Star Trek.
Oh it is, it's like a spotters guide for almost everything you post.
So in a (possibly) vain attempt to see if the argument will break as the guy who keeps pretending he's going to be the one to stop replying then predictably goes on to reply, I'll talk about the image I posted.
The latest image of our hero ship.
- Much improved in proportions from the first reveal, the longer nacelles and shorter hull balance it out more.
- The new grey colour is far better than the bronze. The hull texture also resembles that of the NX and Kelvin ships selling that primitive look.
- The triangular hull is somewhat reminiscent of the Franklin, Emmett and Warp Delta which is a nice nod back to some basic pioneer designs suggesting an experimental ship.
- The saucer has a ring of negative space around the central module which resembles a globe rather than a cylinder, both traits are reminiscent of the Dreadnought Class. The visual similarities are more obvious as the blue tint of the poster makes the grey hull look black.
- The nacelles are more rounded now and bare a certain resemblance to those of the Kelvin and Newton etc. which is good as those are the ships directly proceeding this one.
- There is a lot of detailing on the wings, something I don't think we've seen to that extreme except on the Franklin. It may just be standard Aztecing and the colour filter is throwing the balance off highlighting what should be relief as detail.
- The name looks a little last minute and not as a final copy. Especially as it's missing the redgestry number.
- Essentially, like the bridge and corridors we've seen, this ship looks exactly what a ship of that era should look like, like a descendent of the Kelvin (Mayflower, Armstrong, etc.) and of older ships like the Franklin or NX. This goes right down to the angular corridors and hull panelling.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The TOS sets were a wonderful design - for 1960s-era CRT televisions, so terribly fuzzy by modern standards. With today's high-definition sets being so common you can't even get a so-called "standard def" TV any more, we need to aim higher. (On the other hand, the one glimpse we've had of the captain's chair of the Discovery, in a publicity still, looks kind of like the chair in that CGI render...)
Saying that Discovery is set 10 years before TOS automatically makes it a TOS prequel in the Prime Universe. Therefore, there needs to be a logical progression of the universe shown in TOS originated from Discovery.
Abrams took the easy way out with his whole parallel universe reboot since there is no need to worry about what happened in other Star Trek TV series and movies. The new Star Trek movies could introduce Species 8472, Q, the Dominion, Hirogen, Kazon, or whatever new enemy they want without any problem, but Discovery has too many restrictions on what they can do.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
TMP Klingons looked different from TOS Klingons not because Roddenberry wanted to introduce a virus that contained human genes which aggressively rewrote Klingon DNA, but because Klingons always looked that way.
It is a simple matter: when we're being told a story we each imagine the scenery differently. When different storytellers tell the same story they each tell it differently. When moviemakers tell the same story, not only do they show it differently, they go to great lengths to show the differences.
Compare the 1953 version of Titanic to the 2007 version. Under the premise of the OP, the newer version should look exactly like the older because both attempt to tell a story around the exact same historical event. But there are dozens of Titanic films of various quality, and all of them have a distinct look. Which one is right?
So the idea that a filmmaker would adhere to a design used in another's work is an idea which derives outside of real world experience.
And just because it looks different in the Historical Document doesn't mean it was different 'when it happened.' Their aesthetic didn't change, just the materials available to the historical reenactors.
No matter how they might look in Discovery, it is almost a certainty that they won't behave anything like the Klingon's from TOS.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I don't think the Titanic reference works well. In each film about Titanic the Titanic itself never changed to fit the times. By that logic the next Titanic film should star a Carnival Cruise line ship.
original join date 2010
Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!