(Roddenberry a socialist, my pretty Bajoran backside...)
That came later, when he became a "Hollywood liberal". Back in the day, Roddenberry had an acquisitive streak that would make a Ferengi blush.
True. According to "chaos on the bridge" Roddenberry started to adopt humanist views only as his health already wasn't in it's peak anymore, so it's maybe the result of him thinking about the inevitable.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would imagine that the name "Discovery" hearkens back to ST:6's wordplay on the future being the titular "Undiscovered Country", and that this ship is designed to discover that "country" with Klingons and Starfleet together.
The title The Undiscovered Country is a Shakespeare reference, in which Death is described as "...that undiscover'd country from whose bourne/No traveller returns..."
So, the ship is designed to explore Sto'vo'kor?
I know that... I live 8 miles away from Shakespeareland, so I'm reasonably well acquainted... but Chancellor Gorkon invokes the phrase in describing the future:
Chancellor Gorkon: I offer a toast. The undiscovered country-the future.
Everyone: The undiscovered country.
Spock: Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.
Gorkon: You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.
The point being of course is that the future, like death is something unknown, that from a linear perspective we head into and (temporal anomalies, incursions and timeships aside), we too, cannot come back from.
I think the "Undiscovered County" might also be a nice play on the cultural (and maybe linguistic) differences between Klingons and Humans.
Well that's exactly the point Gorkon was trying to make... that we don't know the future and the very fact that Klingons and Humans have such strong differences in their cultures makes it even more unpredictable.
It's actually a clever film; the title works on multiple levels - the character who utters the line is assassinated and so goes to the Undiscovered Country that Shakespeare originally envisaged. The political fear of Starfleet, the Klingons and the Romulans which leads to the assasination conspiracy/ies... very much parallels mortal fear... albeit the death they fear is the death of their institutions and their modus operandi.
And Spock's musing over "The Expulsion from Eden" is interesting as well, because it speaks of the end of something wonderful and idyllic and being sent out into the unknown... yet from a Judeo-Christian theological perspective, the consequential chaos and hardship ascribed to the events in the story eventually lead to a more hopeful future. That's very much a good analogy of Starfleet and the KDF in STVI:TUC. They find themselves forced out from a place where they have operated comfortably... and facing a potentially chaotic future that they don't yet see can lead to a beneficial alliance and cooperation.
I realise I was possibly invoking theology a little too heavily for the tastes of some on this forum in that last part... but I hope it's understood that my intent was to highlight parallels in the film's plot by using semiotics from the film itself... and not that I was getting all preachy.
"The Undiscovered Country" - still one of, if not "the" best Trek motion pic! Still 2nd to "The Wrath of Khan" in my book. Yeah, I'm a nerd.
Really?
No. It's exceeds TWoK in every way. Except one, the quality of the effects is not as good.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
To be classed as profitable at this point means that the revenue they have already brought in from advertisers and the overseas rights for airing, etc have exceeded the budget outlaid for production on the first season.
Netflix, for instance, has already paid for the right to show ST:D outside the US and Canada.
With the design of the USS Discovery, makes you think if the rumours are, or one of them at least, actually true and the public may have been lied too. I was so hoping the both the rumours were true but since this recent trailer has come out after we have been told the rumours are not true is something worth thinking about.
Hell, if you're going to disregard what the showrunner has told us, then how do you even know this trailer is accurate? Maybe the show's actually called Star Trek: the Bachelor, and features scantily-clad Orions competing for a date with Jim Kirk, and there isn't even a spaceship involved.
We have to go by the information we've been given, otherwise there's no sense in speculating at all because there's no limit.
The 2nd season will be Janeway searching for a Redshirt survivor.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Given the non-reticence of many Trek Fans toward previous TV incarnations and the recent movies, it could also be said that no Trek show has ever had more cards stacked against it, as well.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
So, we might finally get to see aspects of the Earth-Star Fleet/Romulan War and its immediate aftermath.
Cool!
I can imagine Section-31 naming a ship the DISCOVERY, and saying it's an exploration/science vessel, all the while having ulterior motives for its actual mission.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Speculation, yes - but at least informed speculation, given that Fuller said the registry number was "a big hint".
Hmm, while we're all focused on the 1st two numbers of the registry, the clue may be actually be in the last two. Interesting.
Regarding where it fits in the timeline, the low registry number doesn't necessarily mean it is pre-TOS. Roddenberry envisioned the original Enterprise as a ship "with a past", hence the Christopher Pike and Robert April years. It was TNG, and all other series after that (Ent-D, Defiant, Voyager, NX-01), which unveiled a brand-spanking new ship.
And if, as many speculate, this is a Fed-Klingon hybrid, maybe they used a saucer section from an older ship, maybe even one that was badly damaged by the Klingons, and melded it a Klingon design? Maybe a little far-fetched, but figured I'd throw a "way out there idea" out.
Eh, I think I've officially lost interest in paying for CBS-All-Access now.
I didn't want to see another pre-TOS show. I wanted to see them continue where DS9 and Voy left off.
Seriously. They had so much material to work with and so many ideas on the table from so many people and they chose another 'prequel' set in the Federation's early history? How original.
And how transparent. They want to avoid comparisons and confusion with NuTrek, so they base the new series in a time that could work for either the Prime or Kelvin timelines.
So they end up either breaking continuity with one or more of the other series because the writers can't keep their stories straight, or they're in this little box where we know how the history turns out already.
Guess STO is the last resort for Prime Trek after all.
So, we might finally get to see aspects of the Earth-Star Fleet/Romulan War and its immediate aftermath.
Cool!
I can imagine Section-31 naming a ship the DISCOVERY, and saying it's an exploration/science vessel, all the while having ulterior motives for its actual mission.
Eh, I think I've officially lost interest in paying for CBS-All-Access now.
I didn't want to see another pre-TOS show. I wanted to see them continue where DS9 and Voy left off.
Seriously. They had so much material to work with and so many ideas on the table from so many people and they chose another 'prequel' set in the Federation's early history? How original.
And how transparent. They want to avoid comparisons and confusion with NuTrek, so they base the new series in a time that could work for either the Prime or Kelvin timelines.
So they end up either breaking continuity with one or more of the other series because the writers can't keep their stories straight, or they're in this little box where we know how the history turns out already.
Guess STO is the last resort for Prime Trek after all.
I too was hoping for a post TNG/DS9/Voyager/Nemesis and still hoping one day it will happen. While still interested in Star Trek Discovery.
In this article about the rumours, Bryan Fuller says that both rumours are not true yet he also says that ‘Oh, they got that part right…’ But it’s sort of on the truth-o-meter on PolitiFacts. It’s sort of like some truth, and a lot of like, ‘No — pants on fire! That’s not true.'" http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/06/fuller-debunks-some-rumors/, What can this all mean? Hopefully more will be shown on the 10th.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here is a link on registries in Star Trek and other registries. In the Starship example you can see U.S.S YAMATO has the registry NCC -1305-E and it was built in 2365. Same with the U.S.S ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-D, built in 2363. The starship registries have no link to the year they are built in or what era it is. So why is Bryan Fuller saying U.S.S DISCOVERY NCC-1031 has a hint on the era the new series will be? When it has not be done in the past.
The -E's and -D's come as later incarnations. 1031 comes before 1701 number-wise, and are their first ships before they are destroyed by Klingons. Probably Klingons.
Anyway, I wonder if the series will cover the Romulan War.
The -E's and -D's come as later incarnations. 1031 comes before 1701 number-wise, and are their first ships before they are destroyed by Klingons. Probably Klingons.
Anyway, I wonder if the series will cover the Romulan War.
Yes, thank you for telling me about the Enterprise D and E, which I already know. If I were you I would look or re-look at the link I added in my previous post. Like I typed before, in the past there has been no link to the registry and the year the ship was built or the era.
Here is a link on registries in Star Trek and other registries. In the Starship example you can see U.S.S YAMATO has the registry NCC -1305-E and it was built in 2365. Same with the U.S.S ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-D, built in 2363. The starship registries have no link to the year they are built in or what era it is. So why is Bryan Fuller saying U.S.S DISCOVERY NCC-1031 has a hint on the era the new series will be? When it has not be done in the past.
Lettered registries are exceptions meant to memorialize particular ships. The rest of the Galaxy-class has registries in the 70xxx range. Ditto the Defiants with registries beginning in 74, then 75, and Intrepids with 746xx.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
True. According to "chaos on the bridge" Roddenberry started to adopt humanist views only as his health already wasn't in it's peak anymore, so it's maybe the result of him thinking about the inevitable.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Does make you think the First Contact version of Zefram Cochrane may have been an affectionate inside joke, nod to that.
I know that... I live 8 miles away from Shakespeareland, so I'm reasonably well acquainted... but Chancellor Gorkon invokes the phrase in describing the future:
The point being of course is that the future, like death is something unknown, that from a linear perspective we head into and (temporal anomalies, incursions and timeships aside), we too, cannot come back from.
Well that's exactly the point Gorkon was trying to make... that we don't know the future and the very fact that Klingons and Humans have such strong differences in their cultures makes it even more unpredictable.
It's actually a clever film; the title works on multiple levels - the character who utters the line is assassinated and so goes to the Undiscovered Country that Shakespeare originally envisaged. The political fear of Starfleet, the Klingons and the Romulans which leads to the assasination conspiracy/ies... very much parallels mortal fear... albeit the death they fear is the death of their institutions and their modus operandi.
And Spock's musing over "The Expulsion from Eden" is interesting as well, because it speaks of the end of something wonderful and idyllic and being sent out into the unknown... yet from a Judeo-Christian theological perspective, the consequential chaos and hardship ascribed to the events in the story eventually lead to a more hopeful future. That's very much a good analogy of Starfleet and the KDF in STVI:TUC. They find themselves forced out from a place where they have operated comfortably... and facing a potentially chaotic future that they don't yet see can lead to a beneficial alliance and cooperation.
I realise I was possibly invoking theology a little too heavily for the tastes of some on this forum in that last part... but I hope it's understood that my intent was to highlight parallels in the film's plot by using semiotics from the film itself... and not that I was getting all preachy.
No. It's exceeds TWoK in every way. Except one, the quality of the effects is not as good.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
How did the USS Discovery travel to the future to bring back profits to the current time ;p !
We have to go by the information we've been given, otherwise there's no sense in speculating at all because there's no limit.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Okay found it.
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Given the non-reticence of many Trek Fans toward previous TV incarnations and the recent movies, it could also be said that no Trek show has ever had more cards stacked against it, as well.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Its basically confirmed that the series is set between Enterprise and TOS.
Still speculation. Apparently we will know more on the 10th.
http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/08/star-trek-discovery-rumor-mill/
Cool!
I can imagine Section-31 naming a ship the DISCOVERY, and saying it's an exploration/science vessel, all the while having ulterior motives for its actual mission.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Regarding where it fits in the timeline, the low registry number doesn't necessarily mean it is pre-TOS. Roddenberry envisioned the original Enterprise as a ship "with a past", hence the Christopher Pike and Robert April years. It was TNG, and all other series after that (Ent-D, Defiant, Voyager, NX-01), which unveiled a brand-spanking new ship.
And if, as many speculate, this is a Fed-Klingon hybrid, maybe they used a saucer section from an older ship, maybe even one that was badly damaged by the Klingons, and melded it a Klingon design? Maybe a little far-fetched, but figured I'd throw a "way out there idea" out.
I didn't want to see another pre-TOS show. I wanted to see them continue where DS9 and Voy left off.
Seriously. They had so much material to work with and so many ideas on the table from so many people and they chose another 'prequel' set in the Federation's early history? How original.
And how transparent. They want to avoid comparisons and confusion with NuTrek, so they base the new series in a time that could work for either the Prime or Kelvin timelines.
So they end up either breaking continuity with one or more of the other series because the writers can't keep their stories straight, or they're in this little box where we know how the history turns out already.
Guess STO is the last resort for Prime Trek after all.
This was posted, http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/08/star-trek-discovery-cameos/, If that is true then some if not all of the Enterprise crew of the Enterprise NX-01can make appearances in Star Trek Discovery, if it is set in between Enterprise and TOS.
I too was hoping for a post TNG/DS9/Voyager/Nemesis and still hoping one day it will happen. While still interested in Star Trek Discovery.
In this article about the rumours, Bryan Fuller says that both rumours are not true yet he also says that ‘Oh, they got that part right…’ But it’s sort of on the truth-o-meter on PolitiFacts. It’s sort of like some truth, and a lot of like, ‘No — pants on fire! That’s not true.'" http://www.trektoday.com/content/2016/06/fuller-debunks-some-rumors/, What can this all mean? Hopefully more will be shown on the 10th.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Here is a link on registries in Star Trek and other registries. In the Starship example you can see U.S.S YAMATO has the registry NCC -1305-E and it was built in 2365. Same with the U.S.S ENTERPRISE NCC-1701-D, built in 2363. The starship registries have no link to the year they are built in or what era it is. So why is Bryan Fuller saying U.S.S DISCOVERY NCC-1031 has a hint on the era the new series will be? When it has not be done in the past.
Anyway, I wonder if the series will cover the Romulan War.
Yes, thank you for telling me about the Enterprise D and E, which I already know. If I were you I would look or re-look at the link I added in my previous post. Like I typed before, in the past there has been no link to the registry and the year the ship was built or the era.
Lettered registries are exceptions meant to memorialize particular ships. The rest of the Galaxy-class has registries in the 70xxx range. Ditto the Defiants with registries beginning in 74, then 75, and Intrepids with 746xx.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/