I think a smoother sort of aesthetic to a joint venture would probably be take the basic hull layout of one or the other faction, but give it the alternate touches. Like a Starfleet saucer/secondary but with Klingon style nacelles and bridge module, and a more angular look to the connections. Or a Klingon style 'manta' but with a more 'streamlined' federation look and hull plating, with Federation style impulse mountings.
Just as ideas, I'm not much of an artist, it would indicate joint technology exchange without being so, er, kitbashy as the Discovery looks there.
Keep in mind the 'Star Trek Aesthetic' pretty much has ZERO underlying engineering constraints. For a while there was a rule you needed an even number of nacelles and the space between them needed to be open, but even that principle has largely been cast aside. With no base to build off of what we get is a whole shovel-load of ships that are minute topological tweaks to the original Enterprise... which after a dozen movie variants on the exact same theme (and 80+ more of them in STO...) is BORING AS HELL. The Reliant, Stargazer, and Defiant were all desperately needed breaths of fresh air in a hideously stagnant visual space.
And honestly the Discovery isn't even remotely radical as designs go-
Saucer section: check
Separate engineering hull: check
Deflector prominently at the front of the engineering hull: check
Paired Warp nacelles at the end of wings that fan off of the engineering hull: check
Plainly identifiable impulse drive cluster with a clear field of view at the back of the ship: check
I mean the complaint comes down to "ERMAGERD! The Feds built something that isn't rounded!!" Yeah, I'd say the Vengeance isn't especially rounded either and even if some fans don't find it inspiring, I bet many of the professional artists CBS/Paramount deals with sure as heck do... "Oh hey, look: clear visual language for 'Federation Warship - Chunky' vs. Federation Multirole Explorer - Streamlined'."
Good. Every single time the movies/TV shows has managed to break away from the Federation's slavish adherence to the One True Hull, it's been a step forward for plausibility and visual diversity of the setting.
I'm not sure how you can call it stagnant - the Miranda was literally the second class of Starfleet ship seen on screen, and the Obreth was the fourth, but all of them weren't quite so... basic in their lines.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Looks like a triplet of warp nacelles on each pylon. That's one of the things that caused me to compare it to a starship as designed by Red Green. Need more power? Just duct-tape a bunch of nacelles together!
Well, hey, the Klingons and Federation met God, so it's a logical follow-up.
<immediate hitting deck for mentioning STV>
I know it was meant jokingly, but it really irks me that people still say they met "god" in STV because of one line of dialogue everyone knows. But appearantly, nobody actually saw the movie because if you seriously claim they met "god" or "a god" you clearly failed to comprehend the movie
Mind you, "you" is meant as a general pronoun here, replace it with "one", not adressing antonine here. I just wanted to voice that the argument really irks me
Well it's an entity that called itself a god.Not all gods in human mythologies are omnipotent, so not all space gods need be. Sure the Organians and Metrons are more powerful, but they never claimed to be gods, and a claim is really all you need.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Keep in mind the 'Star Trek Aesthetic' pretty much has ZERO underlying engineering constraints. For a while there was a rule you needed an even number of nacelles and the space between them needed to be open, but even that principle has largely been cast aside. With no base to build off of what we get is a whole shovel-load of ships that are minute topological tweaks to the original Enterprise... which after a dozen movie variants on the exact same theme (and 80+ more of them in STO...) is BORING AS HELL. The Reliant, Stargazer, and Defiant were all desperately needed breaths of fresh air in a hideously stagnant visual space.
And let's remember, those design rules about nacelle arrangement were only made as a "f*ck you" to Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual over a royalties dispute between him and Roddenberry. (Roddenberry a socialist, my pretty Bajoran backside...)
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
(Roddenberry a socialist, my pretty Bajoran backside...)
That came later, when he became a "Hollywood liberal". Back in the day, Roddenberry had an acquisitive streak that would make a Ferengi blush.
True. According to "chaos on the bridge" Roddenberry started to adopt humanist views only as his health already wasn't in it's peak anymore, so it's maybe the result of him thinking about the inevitable.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I would imagine that the name "Discovery" hearkens back to ST:6's wordplay on the future being the titular "Undiscovered Country", and that this ship is designed to discover that "country" with Klingons and Starfleet together.
The title The Undiscovered Country is a Shakespeare reference, in which Death is described as "...that undiscover'd country from whose bourne/No traveller returns..."
So, the ship is designed to explore Sto'vo'kor?
I know that... I live 8 miles away from Shakespeareland, so I'm reasonably well acquainted... but Chancellor Gorkon invokes the phrase in describing the future:
Chancellor Gorkon: I offer a toast. The undiscovered country-the future.
Everyone: The undiscovered country.
Spock: Hamlet, Act 3, Scene 1.
Gorkon: You have not experienced Shakespeare until you have read him in the original Klingon.
The point being of course is that the future, like death is something unknown, that from a linear perspective we head into and (temporal anomalies, incursions and timeships aside), we too, cannot come back from.
I think the "Undiscovered County" might also be a nice play on the cultural (and maybe linguistic) differences between Klingons and Humans.
Well that's exactly the point Gorkon was trying to make... that we don't know the future and the very fact that Klingons and Humans have such strong differences in their cultures makes it even more unpredictable.
It's actually a clever film; the title works on multiple levels - the character who utters the line is assassinated and so goes to the Undiscovered Country that Shakespeare originally envisaged. The political fear of Starfleet, the Klingons and the Romulans which leads to the assasination conspiracy/ies... very much parallels mortal fear... albeit the death they fear is the death of their institutions and their modus operandi.
And Spock's musing over "The Expulsion from Eden" is interesting as well, because it speaks of the end of something wonderful and idyllic and being sent out into the unknown... yet from a Judeo-Christian theological perspective, the consequential chaos and hardship ascribed to the events in the story eventually lead to a more hopeful future. That's very much a good analogy of Starfleet and the KDF in STVI:TUC. They find themselves forced out from a place where they have operated comfortably... and facing a potentially chaotic future that they don't yet see can lead to a beneficial alliance and cooperation.
I realise I was possibly invoking theology a little too heavily for the tastes of some on this forum in that last part... but I hope it's understood that my intent was to highlight parallels in the film's plot by using semiotics from the film itself... and not that I was getting all preachy.
"The Undiscovered Country" - still one of, if not "the" best Trek motion pic! Still 2nd to "The Wrath of Khan" in my book. Yeah, I'm a nerd.
Really?
No. It's exceeds TWoK in every way. Except one, the quality of the effects is not as good.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
To be classed as profitable at this point means that the revenue they have already brought in from advertisers and the overseas rights for airing, etc have exceeded the budget outlaid for production on the first season.
Netflix, for instance, has already paid for the right to show ST:D outside the US and Canada.
With the design of the USS Discovery, makes you think if the rumours are, or one of them at least, actually true and the public may have been lied too. I was so hoping the both the rumours were true but since this recent trailer has come out after we have been told the rumours are not true is something worth thinking about.
Hell, if you're going to disregard what the showrunner has told us, then how do you even know this trailer is accurate? Maybe the show's actually called Star Trek: the Bachelor, and features scantily-clad Orions competing for a date with Jim Kirk, and there isn't even a spaceship involved.
We have to go by the information we've been given, otherwise there's no sense in speculating at all because there's no limit.
The 2nd season will be Janeway searching for a Redshirt survivor.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Given the non-reticence of many Trek Fans toward previous TV incarnations and the recent movies, it could also be said that no Trek show has ever had more cards stacked against it, as well.
<shrug>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
Keep in mind the 'Star Trek Aesthetic' pretty much has ZERO underlying engineering constraints. For a while there was a rule you needed an even number of nacelles and the space between them needed to be open, but even that principle has largely been cast aside. With no base to build off of what we get is a whole shovel-load of ships that are minute topological tweaks to the original Enterprise... which after a dozen movie variants on the exact same theme (and 80+ more of them in STO...) is BORING AS HELL. The Reliant, Stargazer, and Defiant were all desperately needed breaths of fresh air in a hideously stagnant visual space.
And honestly the Discovery isn't even remotely radical as designs go-
Saucer section: check
Separate engineering hull: check
Deflector prominently at the front of the engineering hull: check
Paired Warp nacelles at the end of wings that fan off of the engineering hull: check
Plainly identifiable impulse drive cluster with a clear field of view at the back of the ship: check
I mean the complaint comes down to "ERMAGERD! The Feds built something that isn't rounded!!" Yeah, I'd say the Vengeance isn't especially rounded either and even if some fans don't find it inspiring, I bet many of the professional artists CBS/Paramount deals with sure as heck do... "Oh hey, look: clear visual language for 'Federation Warship - Chunky' vs. Federation Multirole Explorer - Streamlined'."
Good. Every single time the movies/TV shows has managed to break away from the Federation's slavish adherence to the One True Hull, it's been a step forward for plausibility and visual diversity of the setting.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Well it's an entity that called itself a god.Not all gods in human mythologies are omnipotent, so not all space gods need be. Sure the Organians and Metrons are more powerful, but they never claimed to be gods, and a claim is really all you need.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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And let's remember, those design rules about nacelle arrangement were only made as a "f*ck you" to Franz Joseph's Star Fleet Technical Manual over a royalties dispute between him and Roddenberry. (Roddenberry a socialist, my pretty Bajoran backside...)
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
True. According to "chaos on the bridge" Roddenberry started to adopt humanist views only as his health already wasn't in it's peak anymore, so it's maybe the result of him thinking about the inevitable.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Does make you think the First Contact version of Zefram Cochrane may have been an affectionate inside joke, nod to that.
I know that... I live 8 miles away from Shakespeareland, so I'm reasonably well acquainted... but Chancellor Gorkon invokes the phrase in describing the future:
The point being of course is that the future, like death is something unknown, that from a linear perspective we head into and (temporal anomalies, incursions and timeships aside), we too, cannot come back from.
Well that's exactly the point Gorkon was trying to make... that we don't know the future and the very fact that Klingons and Humans have such strong differences in their cultures makes it even more unpredictable.
It's actually a clever film; the title works on multiple levels - the character who utters the line is assassinated and so goes to the Undiscovered Country that Shakespeare originally envisaged. The political fear of Starfleet, the Klingons and the Romulans which leads to the assasination conspiracy/ies... very much parallels mortal fear... albeit the death they fear is the death of their institutions and their modus operandi.
And Spock's musing over "The Expulsion from Eden" is interesting as well, because it speaks of the end of something wonderful and idyllic and being sent out into the unknown... yet from a Judeo-Christian theological perspective, the consequential chaos and hardship ascribed to the events in the story eventually lead to a more hopeful future. That's very much a good analogy of Starfleet and the KDF in STVI:TUC. They find themselves forced out from a place where they have operated comfortably... and facing a potentially chaotic future that they don't yet see can lead to a beneficial alliance and cooperation.
I realise I was possibly invoking theology a little too heavily for the tastes of some on this forum in that last part... but I hope it's understood that my intent was to highlight parallels in the film's plot by using semiotics from the film itself... and not that I was getting all preachy.
No. It's exceeds TWoK in every way. Except one, the quality of the effects is not as good.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
How did the USS Discovery travel to the future to bring back profits to the current time ;p !
We have to go by the information we've been given, otherwise there's no sense in speculating at all because there's no limit.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Okay found it.
Its already profitable because of the Netflix deal, which is apparently big money, so its exceeded Les Moonvests prediction of 60% of the showing being payed for by international sales.
It makes me wonder how much cash Bell Media offered for the Canadian rights in both official languages, given that tbey beat out Netflix, which was willing to basically pay CBS's entire costs of making the show, plus profits on top, without even getting access to the American Market. It had to be an absurd amount of money Bell Media offered given our current information on the deal with Netflix. Canada isn't as big as the US, but its still a fairly major market for Star Trek. Heck its being shot in Toronto.
I'm curious if interviews with the shows stars for CTVs Etalk is part of the deal given the shows location. I do know there will be a massive Canada/Ontario government investment in the show from day 1, Canada is hungry for film and television business, so major funds and tax breaks and so on.
I've never heard of a show being profitable before its produced before, its TV history making.
I also noticed spin offs being mentioned. If the show is popular spin offs are basically a given at this point I think. I don't think a Star Trek series has ever started that had more cards stacked in its favour then TRIBBLE.
Given the non-reticence of many Trek Fans toward previous TV incarnations and the recent movies, it could also be said that no Trek show has ever had more cards stacked against it, as well.
<shrug>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Its basically confirmed that the series is set between Enterprise and TOS.
Still speculation. Apparently we will know more on the 10th.