Still, pretty positive review, from the sounds of it!
I gave it a shot, but he doesn't say anything about the show other than he liked it. All the stuff he says (granted, it's supposed to be "spoiler free" after all) is material we already know and he says "The Orville" is a comedy show which indicates he also only saw the trailer about that, so... Meh.
I'll just wait until tomorrow evening when the first episode is on Netflix
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
In regard to his biases: He doesn't seem a big fan of the Kelvin Timeline and he agrees that Trek is more suited for TV then Cinema.
But apparently there is a CBS All Access giveaway or something like that offered to viewers? I figure this indicates some involvement between him and CBS.
I have to wait till tomorrow to watch it on Netflix. Can't wait. (Well, not really, I can, what choice to do I have? Spontaneously combust?)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
In regard to his biases: He doesn't seem a big fan of the Kelvin Timeline and he agrees that Trek is more suited for TV then Cinema.
But apparently there is a CBS All Access giveaway or something like that offered to viewers? I figure this indicates some involvement between him and CBS.
I have to wait till tomorrow to watch it on Netflix. Can't wait. (Well, Ibit really, I can, what choice to do I have? Spontaneously combust?)
Yeah, he does a lot of different giveaways... I'm sure it was a promotional thing with CBS, but he's not "in the bag" for CBS.
And, while I certainly didn't like his flippant comment about the KT films, LOL... I don't think it's a case of him "not being a fan," necessarily. I watch his stuff regularly, because he catches a lot of news (but, it's 50/50 with his insight and analysis). I honestly think he's largely ignorant of the nuances of the franchise, and is just a casual fan.
He clearly doesn't understand the IP rights split between CBS and Paramount, as dumb as that is, or he wouldn't have painted the KT films situation as "balling them up and throwing them in the trash."
[IF canon was changed then it would be a reboot not a retcon.
It doesn't matter if it's a reboot or a retcon, you pedant; It's a revision
CBS: It's Prime
CBS: 10 years before Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise
What do we get shown?
LENSFLARE
NOT MUH KLINGONZ!!!!!
What they've shown, is something very different to the acknowledged view of the era and series which they're using as a lure to draw subscribers.
Saying 'Star Trek has always been inconsistent' isn't good enough. Saying 'Star Trek has always updated its look' isn't good enough.
What they've shown us may be some universe which they're calling the Prime Timeline, but it is not, by any measurable standard, consistent with what the past 50 years of continuity has presented as the Prime Timeline.
Do you like being lied to?
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I'll still celebrate when TOS stuff makes it's way into the show, I suspect a connie during season one and more stuff later on, if.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Yes, we know that you feel personally abandoned and specifically conned by CBS because Discovery failed to conform to what you specifically want to see in a Trek show, and CBS made it worse by promising they would give you what you want but instead changed everything important to create generic space opera with a Star Trek logo on the package.
But you see, I don't see any lies by CBS. What I see is a group of people trying to make Trek their way and you decrying the effort because it fails to conform to your ideas. Instead of taking the offering on its own merits, you are imposing standards to which only fan productions would be willing to adhere. This is not a fan fic, and Hollywood types want to make their own mark, not make a copy of someone else's.
While you are free to disagree with the direction Discovery is going, holding to the position that you have been deceived by CBS is unreasonable and illogical. It is unreasonable because every thinking person who spends just a few minutes thinking about it must realize that no modern production team was ever going to copy the aesthetics of an early 1960's failed TV pilot. (That's the realm of fan flicks, not big studio productions.) It is illogical because when examining the history of Trek one must observe that with each new incarnation the aesthetics and tone have changed, often for no better reason than because they could be changed.
When one feels strongly about a subject, one should really strive to see the whole picture rather than focus only on single items one dislikes. While I dislike the soap opera aspects being touted as integral to Discovery, and I especially loathe the 'single story in multiple episode story arcs' format, I realize that many viewers like these things. Should I claim CBS decieved me by promising Trek but delivering Walking Dead? Or should I, after presenting my views, acknowledge that the views of others are as important as my own, that they can hold those opinions without nefarious motives, and that the efforts of the marketing staff were not intentional deceptions, but were intended as putting their best foot forward.
Here is an exercise taught me by my Grandfather so long ago: when you disagree with someone, try to argue their side of the issue. You don't have to accept their arguments, but if you can't argue for the opposite side then you don't really know what you are arguing against.
I'm going to give Discovery a viewing. I don't plan to subscribe to All Access because I watch television about 8 hours per month during Handegg Season, and considerably less in the off season. $72/year is a steep price for 12 hours of TV. However, I might purchase the DVD compilation if what I want in Trek shines through all of the modernizations.
[IF canon was changed then it would be a reboot not a retcon.
It doesn't matter if it's a reboot or a retcon, you pedant; It's a revision
It's true, artan is a pedant, much like yourself.
There is a gigantic gaping flaw in your argument. Namely that either it's IDENTICAL, or it's a revision. Thus everything past the first episode is a revision.
Oh I know you're going to try to claim there's some invisible threshold of change... but really... that exists only in your head.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
This thing I found in the Facebook group for the series seems appropriate.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
...sometimes you have to draw conclusions based on the visual presentation. The Stargazer uses Constitution refit parts to visually show it is not the Galaxy, it is not of the Galaxy's era, and it is a very old ship contemporaneous with the Constitution refit, to this end it uses the same style of bridge as well. The situation is identical with the Olympic in AGT and the Newton et al. in 09. They are old ships of a older period to highlight the contrast with the modern KonsTitution.
I'm just going to elaborate on this whilst I think on.
I'm not claiming the Kelvin style ships are 100% Prime Timeline, but I'm saying that the overwhelming balance of probability is that they are.
As I said before, the rusted interior and scorched exterior suggests the Kelvin is a very old ship by the time it was destroyed and presumably one on a long term mission that means it dosn't get back to a Starbase very often.
The Kelvin style ships in 09 are similarly grubby on the exterior suggesting a similar age to the Kelvin.
In addition we have the identical components used to construct the Kelvin and, for example, the Armstrong/Excelsior. As with the Constellation we can use the design language to understand its approximate age through context.
We never saw the Constellation in the TOS films, we never saw a Prime Timeline Olympic or a Prime Timeline Newton, but using older design language allows us to work out for ourselves the ships are older than the period we find them in.
We have seen both Prime Timeline and Endgame/AGT Timeline Negh'Var and the Prime Timeline Kelvin and there is no significant differences as there is with, say, the AGT Timeline Galaxy or the KT Enterprise so we can assume the older ships are exactly as they were prior to the timeline splits.
Now there may not be an exact Mayflower Class in the Prime Timeline, it may be that, for reasons unknown, Starfleet built a ~90 year old ship out of an obsolete design using damaged parts simply because the Kelvin was destroyed and that they never did that in the Prime Timeline.
Moreover (as that's just plain daft) we've never seen one offs, all ships in Starfleet share at least something with ships of the same era (the Obreth shares nacelles with the Conni more or less, the Franklin and NX have similar nacelles as well, the Akira and Norway have the split hull, and so on) so the Kelvin would have sister ships wether they looked like the Mayflower, Newton, and Armstrong/Excelsior etc. or not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
[IF canon was changed then it would be a reboot not a retcon.
It doesn't matter if it's a reboot or a retcon, you pedant; It's a revision
It's true, artan is a pedant, much like yourself.
There is a gigantic gaping flaw in your argument. Namely that either it's IDENTICAL, or it's a revision. Thus everything past the first episode is a revision.
Oh I know you're going to try to claim there's some invisible threshold of change... but really... that exists only in your head.
Sorry, you're going to need to speak slower and get some crayons out for that to actually make any sense to me. No BSing; I literally Do Not Understand the point you're trying to make there :-\
Don't mistake my dedication to accuracy for pedantism: I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here, I've found I have to be as accurate, literal and specific as I have to be when dealing with my autistic nephew. There's a difference between 'being right', and being pedantic: I understand that difference. Don't mistake my ability to speak like a pedant, for me actually being one
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I can still see silverlobes's posts when people quote them, but I don't see why you bother. He's still unable to work out how to form an argument other than throwing words and rumours around in the vain hope something sticks. The fact the words and the sentences they form go through U-Turns with every new post he makes should be of no surprise if you understand the simple fact he's got no clue what he's reading or how to respond to it.
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
You're wrong about the crayons silverlobes, I think you're mostly beyond all but professional remedial educators help now.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I can still see silverlobes's posts when people quote them, but I don't see why you bother. He's still unable to work out how to form an argument other than throwing words and rumours around in the vain hope something sticks. The fact the words and the sentences they form go through U-Turns with every new post he makes should be of no surprise if you understand the simple fact he's got no clue what he's reading or how to respond to it.
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
You're wrong about the crayons silverlobes, I think you're mostly beyond all but professional remedial educators help now.
Oh the projection... Get help, fella, because you need it.
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
I can still see silverlobes's posts when people quote them, but I don't see why you bother. He's still unable to work out how to form an argument other than throwing words and rumours around in the vain hope something sticks. The fact the words and the sentences they form go through U-Turns with every new post he makes should be of no surprise if you understand the simple fact he's got no clue what he's reading or how to respond to it.
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
Agreed, I don't think he know the definition of "pedant"
I can still see silverlobes's posts when people quote them, but I don't see why you bother. He's still unable to work out how to form an argument other than throwing words and rumours around in the vain hope something sticks. The fact the words and the sentences they form go through U-Turns with every new post he makes should be of no surprise if you understand the simple fact he's got no clue what he's reading or how to respond to it.
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
Agreed, I don't think he know the definition of "pedant"
I'm sure he's using his own definition.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Prophets, I will be so glad after the show premieres and @baddmoonrizin can finally close this stupid thread.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I can still see silverlobes's posts when people quote them, but I don't see why you bother. He's still unable to work out how to form an argument other than throwing words and rumours around in the vain hope something sticks. The fact the words and the sentences they form go through U-Turns with every new post he makes should be of no surprise if you understand the simple fact he's got no clue what he's reading or how to respond to it.
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
Agreed, I don't think he know the definition of "pedant"
I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here.
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
A thousand times THIS! I know exactly the feeling. By now I've pretty much given up on trying to getting through to those people. For your own sanity I suggest you do the same.
Awww, you both think directly quoting each and every single thing you say when replies are formulated is spin? The real world must be scary.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here.
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
A thousand times THIS! I know exactly the feeling. By now I've pretty much given up on trying to getting through to those people. For your own sanity I suggest you do the same.
Awww, you both think directly quoting each and every single thing you say when replies are formulated is spin? The real world must be scary.
Oh my brother... What I find scary - more heart-breaking, actually - is having to speak to (presumeably) adults, in the way I have to speak to an autistic four year old
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here.
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
A thousand times THIS! I know exactly the feeling. By now I've pretty much given up on trying to getting through to those people. For your own sanity I suggest you do the same.
Awww, you both think directly quoting each and every single thing you say when replies are formulated is spin? The real world must be scary.
Oh my brother... What I find scary - more heart-breaking, actually - is having to speak to (presumeably) adults, in the way I have to speak to an autistic four year old
The best way to speak to an autistic four-year-old is clearly, and using exactly the words you mean to use, with no hidden meanings or allusions you don't fully express.
It would be nice if you could express yourself so clearly.
On the other hand (and this might just be my own sensitivity after all these years of "jokes" at our expense), it sounds to me like you might have meant that label as an insult...
I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here.
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
A thousand times THIS! I know exactly the feeling. By now I've pretty much given up on trying to getting through to those people. For your own sanity I suggest you do the same.
Awww, you both think directly quoting each and every single thing you say when replies are formulated is spin? The real world must be scary.
Oh my brother... What I find scary - more heart-breaking, actually - is having to speak to (presumeably) adults, in the way I have to speak to an autistic four year old
The best way to speak to an autistic four-year-old is clearly, and using exactly the words you mean to use, with no hidden meanings or allusions you don't fully express.
It would be nice if you could express yourself so clearly.
On the other hand (and this might just be my own sensitivity after all these years of "jokes" at our expense), it sounds to me like you might have meant that label as an insult...
Not an insult, an observation. As I've said before, I'm not unsympathetic, but when dealing with adults on the spectrum, I expect them to have learned that courtesy, politeness and respect, are all two-way streets, and with those like artan, I have no inclination to extend that to someone who consistently behaves so appallingly toward others.
For the sake of clarity, the autistic four year old I was refering to, is my nephew.
Post edited by silverlobes#2676 on
"I fight for the Users!" - Tron
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Comments
I gave it a shot, but he doesn't say anything about the show other than he liked it. All the stuff he says (granted, it's supposed to be "spoiler free" after all) is material we already know and he says "The Orville" is a comedy show which indicates he also only saw the trailer about that, so... Meh.
I'll just wait until tomorrow evening when the first episode is on Netflix
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
But apparently there is a CBS All Access giveaway or something like that offered to viewers? I figure this indicates some involvement between him and CBS.
I have to wait till tomorrow to watch it on Netflix. Can't wait. (Well, not really, I can, what choice to do I have? Spontaneously combust?)
Yeah, he does a lot of different giveaways... I'm sure it was a promotional thing with CBS, but he's not "in the bag" for CBS.
And, while I certainly didn't like his flippant comment about the KT films, LOL... I don't think it's a case of him "not being a fan," necessarily. I watch his stuff regularly, because he catches a lot of news (but, it's 50/50 with his insight and analysis). I honestly think he's largely ignorant of the nuances of the franchise, and is just a casual fan.
He clearly doesn't understand the IP rights split between CBS and Paramount, as dumb as that is, or he wouldn't have painted the KT films situation as "balling them up and throwing them in the trash."
My character Tsin'xing
CBS: It's Prime
CBS: 10 years before Kirk, Spock and the Enterprise
What do we get shown?
LENSFLARE
NOT MUH KLINGONZ!!!!!
What they've shown, is something very different to the acknowledged view of the era and series which they're using as a lure to draw subscribers.
Saying 'Star Trek has always been inconsistent' isn't good enough. Saying 'Star Trek has always updated its look' isn't good enough.
What they've shown us may be some universe which they're calling the Prime Timeline, but it is not, by any measurable standard, consistent with what the past 50 years of continuity has presented as the Prime Timeline.
Do you like being lied to?
Watch it and enjoy it. Seriously, I hope you enjoy it. But in the name of all that is holy, stop gaslighting and White Knighting CBS's obvious lies about what they're marketing.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
But you see, I don't see any lies by CBS. What I see is a group of people trying to make Trek their way and you decrying the effort because it fails to conform to your ideas. Instead of taking the offering on its own merits, you are imposing standards to which only fan productions would be willing to adhere. This is not a fan fic, and Hollywood types want to make their own mark, not make a copy of someone else's.
While you are free to disagree with the direction Discovery is going, holding to the position that you have been deceived by CBS is unreasonable and illogical. It is unreasonable because every thinking person who spends just a few minutes thinking about it must realize that no modern production team was ever going to copy the aesthetics of an early 1960's failed TV pilot. (That's the realm of fan flicks, not big studio productions.) It is illogical because when examining the history of Trek one must observe that with each new incarnation the aesthetics and tone have changed, often for no better reason than because they could be changed.
When one feels strongly about a subject, one should really strive to see the whole picture rather than focus only on single items one dislikes. While I dislike the soap opera aspects being touted as integral to Discovery, and I especially loathe the 'single story in multiple episode story arcs' format, I realize that many viewers like these things. Should I claim CBS decieved me by promising Trek but delivering Walking Dead? Or should I, after presenting my views, acknowledge that the views of others are as important as my own, that they can hold those opinions without nefarious motives, and that the efforts of the marketing staff were not intentional deceptions, but were intended as putting their best foot forward.
Here is an exercise taught me by my Grandfather so long ago: when you disagree with someone, try to argue their side of the issue. You don't have to accept their arguments, but if you can't argue for the opposite side then you don't really know what you are arguing against.
I'm going to give Discovery a viewing. I don't plan to subscribe to All Access because I watch television about 8 hours per month during Handegg Season, and considerably less in the off season. $72/year is a steep price for 12 hours of TV. However, I might purchase the DVD compilation if what I want in Trek shines through all of the modernizations.
There is a gigantic gaping flaw in your argument. Namely that either it's IDENTICAL, or it's a revision. Thus everything past the first episode is a revision.
Oh I know you're going to try to claim there's some invisible threshold of change... but really... that exists only in your head.
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I'm just going to elaborate on this whilst I think on.
I'm not claiming the Kelvin style ships are 100% Prime Timeline, but I'm saying that the overwhelming balance of probability is that they are.
As I said before, the rusted interior and scorched exterior suggests the Kelvin is a very old ship by the time it was destroyed and presumably one on a long term mission that means it dosn't get back to a Starbase very often.
The Kelvin style ships in 09 are similarly grubby on the exterior suggesting a similar age to the Kelvin.
In addition we have the identical components used to construct the Kelvin and, for example, the Armstrong/Excelsior. As with the Constellation we can use the design language to understand its approximate age through context.
We never saw the Constellation in the TOS films, we never saw a Prime Timeline Olympic or a Prime Timeline Newton, but using older design language allows us to work out for ourselves the ships are older than the period we find them in.
We have seen both Prime Timeline and Endgame/AGT Timeline Negh'Var and the Prime Timeline Kelvin and there is no significant differences as there is with, say, the AGT Timeline Galaxy or the KT Enterprise so we can assume the older ships are exactly as they were prior to the timeline splits.
Now there may not be an exact Mayflower Class in the Prime Timeline, it may be that, for reasons unknown, Starfleet built a ~90 year old ship out of an obsolete design using damaged parts simply because the Kelvin was destroyed and that they never did that in the Prime Timeline.
Moreover (as that's just plain daft) we've never seen one offs, all ships in Starfleet share at least something with ships of the same era (the Obreth shares nacelles with the Conni more or less, the Franklin and NX have similar nacelles as well, the Akira and Norway have the split hull, and so on) so the Kelvin would have sister ships wether they looked like the Mayflower, Newton, and Armstrong/Excelsior etc. or not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Sorry, you're going to need to speak slower and get some crayons out for that to actually make any sense to me. No BSing; I literally Do Not Understand the point you're trying to make there :-\
Don't mistake my dedication to accuracy for pedantism: I'm simply so sick of my words being misunderstood, misinterpreted, or outright spun, that when dealing with some of the posters here, I've found I have to be as accurate, literal and specific as I have to be when dealing with my autistic nephew. There's a difference between 'being right', and being pedantic: I understand that difference. Don't mistake my ability to speak like a pedant, for me actually being one
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
There is no difference between being pedantic and being correct when you're talking about the meaning of words. You don't get to make up your own definitions to suit whatever your argument is this hour and then accuse somebody of pedantry and claim to be dedicated to accuracy.
You're wrong about the crayons silverlobes, I think you're mostly beyond all but professional remedial educators help now.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
My character Tsin'xing
I'm sure he's using his own definition.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
Awww, you both think directly quoting each and every single thing you say when replies are formulated is spin? The real world must be scary.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
https://www.facebook.com/StarTrekNetflix/videos/1584425921577601/
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Oh my brother... What I find scary - more heart-breaking, actually - is having to speak to (presumeably) adults, in the way I have to speak to an autistic four year old
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
About an hour away, kids!
LET'S DO THIS!!! See you on the other side!
It would be nice if you could express yourself so clearly.
On the other hand (and this might just be my own sensitivity after all these years of "jokes" at our expense), it sounds to me like you might have meant that label as an insult...
For the sake of clarity, the autistic four year old I was refering to, is my nephew.
"I was here before you, I will be here after you are gone. I am here, regardless of your acknowledgement or acceptance..." - The Truth
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
It's a pity you've never traveled them on these forums.