Bring back not only weekly events, bring back the old school STO that rain daily. Back in the day, there was a daily "Vault Event" to get guys to hop in their shuttles for bonus rewards. There was also periods during the day where "Mirror Invasion" was up for 1 hour.
"Hey, Vault Event is up!"
"Hey, Mirror Invasion is up! Woohoo!"
STO could do better than what we had in those days. Around the clock can be a round robin, mini-event every day for bonus rewards. For a period of 1-2 hours, a certain queue or set of queues will get bonus rewards. When that one concludes, for the next period, another queue or set of queues will get the rewards. Spaced in between to break things up will be Mirror Invasion or newer stuff. Like someone mentioned on these boards, maybe bring back old Crystalline Entity for this.
Daily Events used to be a large part of STO but it went away for some reason years ago. Hell, I can remember when SB24 cycled constantly for the Feds, far more than CCA or ISA these days. SB24 is dead, as well as its original, 2-part aspect.
People gravitate to rewards, we can cycle queues that are currently dead to be much more rewarding to get people to join in.
IIRC the primary reason the daily events were removed in favor of queues is that it provided everyone an opportunity to run the content at any time. As I recall, and I could be wrong as it was a long time ago, quite a lot of people were unable to run certain events because the event timing fell outside their normal available playtime.
You remember correctly.
But I remember the queues being a lot busier then too. So I wonder if that system was re-instated would the queues return to those level of activity again.
No there is enough ways of getting rep marks in the game that are solo-abl. I would rather see them institute a rotating que listing of stfs, which would be a list of 5-8 ques that rotates on a weekly or bi-weekly schedule. There is a thing of having too many choices that can paralyses people's ability to make a choice, and so giving them a limited set of choices that change weekly/bi-weekly you increase their ability to make that choice.
Issue with solo content that gives you rep marks is that it can drain the amount of players doing other content like group content, and battle-zones. The reason is the same as why certain group stf content is more populated than others, the faster an more efficient the content is the more players will gravitate towards it making other group content less populated. Why wait in que for a group to do a stf for marks if you can get the same or similar mark rewards for doing a solo mission/stf? Most players will go with the most effective an efficient method regardless of how fun or enjoyable it is. An as such increasing the solo content in a game does impede an impact the players wanting to play in groups in a game made for playing in groups an without other players, because the solo content siphons off players from group content because the rewards are easier or less of a hassle to gain an farm.
While I do agree that the rewards should reflect the content, and that solo content should reward less than group content, I differ in that I don't agree with the number of ways to get marks that are truly a solo effort. And the adding of solo content would not make me play STF's any less, but would alleviate a lot of frustration I have over having only to engage content that has other players that can interfere with me having fun. The choice is not currently present in the game to be able to advance end game content purely on my own merits, alone.
Though adding solo content that gives rep marks might not make you play stfs less, but this is not about you solely but the larger playerbase of sto an the impact it would have on them. There are many players that will gravitate towards the best way of grinding an farming for what they want, which adding easier an quicker solo-versions of stf content or rep content will become the most efficient method of grinding/farming marks (unless the reward for the content is really minuscule), and so will depopulate the ques further as go to the solo content for easier an faster grinding/farming times. You're looking at this from just your point of view in a game that is played by many more players, and even looking at the ques it is pretty well shown that the playerbase shifts to the easiest an quickest method of getting what they want. Also end game should not be a lone/solo form of content outside of story missions and battlezones that are a quasi-solo/group content that can be done both solo an group. I would suggest if you don't want to have to deal with other players affecting your playing of the game, as well as progress in the game than look into star trek single player games as that is what you seem to want to do. You have patrol missions that give out marks, battlezones, missions on many worlds that are doable solo,
Hmmm...take a moment and really look at what I have been saying.
Adding Solo content would open another avenue of play. Currently there is only one way to play end game and that is to do group oriented content. None of the end game content is solo oriented content. This is forcing people to play only one way. I am saying to open the way to more play styles. Like letting people to run the STF's solo if they want.
Your own paragraph is basically saying I have to play your way or go somewhere else. I am trying to say is allow for more ways to play and not limit it to just one way. I have direct experience in the fact that other MMO's do allow for the options and there group oriented content does not falter. The same could be done here if only they did in a manner that would support both ways of playing.
And I don't want to strictly play Star Trek alone, I just don't want my personal progress in the game being determined by the other players. That is not present in the game at this time. I am limited in my options based purely upon the fact that other players are not doing the STF content that I want to do. And until that changes I will always be looking for ways to taking the limitations that others impose on me away and giving me that freedom back. Other MMO's do this very successfully. It can be done here to.
I am saying that giving access to solo oriented versions of end game content is going to hurt the ques an group content as a whole. Since why go into group content for end game that gets you an additional 20 or 30 marks on completion of the run, when you can get largely the same rewards minus those additional marks doing quicker an easier content made for soloing, unless the solo content is on a longer lock-out compared to group content, or if you get a reduced quality of reward for doing the content in a solo manner (like the projects completed from marks gained in solo content are stat-wise worse than group varients). Now that i could see that a solo version of say Infected space might have a lock out of 1 hour to 1 an half hours compared to the group version having the normal 30 minute lock-out as now, as that would combat the players just evacuating into the solo versions an further leaving ques even worse off.
Well i have alot of experience in mmos going from Ultima online an abit before that an i have seen the opposite, as that when you give avenues to get end-game rewards like solo content that is end-game oriented it hurts the group end game as a whole. You will always have the die hard grouper types that will do group content even when it is the least popular or efficient method of getting end-game rewards, but on the whole the players will opt to do the easiest method of getting those same rewards. This is shown in the ques quite well that the easiest an more efficient ques are populated, while less efficient an harder ques are dead.Now if sto was built from the ground up to have both solo an group end game content, but that each was different giving unique rewards from each other that would be workable as each are distinct.
The issue with wanting to play the game how you want is that you are basically saying you want a pizza for dinner, even though you walked into a sushi restaurant an expect the chief to accommodate you by making you a pizza, just like you want to get the rewards an progress of the group content without dealing with the other players in the group content. The stfs were created as group content that in spirit is supposed to be done thru interactions with other players for better or worse, though sadly with the power-creep an changes this spirit of the content is less relevant at times, but there should always be content that is only doable thru groups just like having some content that is done solo (like story missions).
You are right battlegrounds, patrols are not solo content, but they are content that is open to being completed solo. I have grinded all of the reps on 6 characters up to max rank an getting most if not all of the rep gear from those reps, while doing them between 75-95% alone an solo with the most group contact i had was killing the planet-killers/starbases/T-rexes that are made around the idea of needing a large group or being highly over-geared to defeat. Most of the things just take longer to do solo as they should like doing the two missions on Kobali prime at the end for marks/elite marks, i mean i even capture/recapture points away from the blob of ships in the Undine bz which is quite interesting an slower, but also does make it so i don't completely deal with other players unless i chose to go over an deal with them.
Myself i would like this to be done a rotating que list of 5-10 ques (excluding difficulty variants of ques, like normal/advanced/elite), which would change on a weekly or bi-weekly schedule, as well as would fallow the fallowing rules.
That the list has to give access to marks of all the current reputations in game, and active.
That each que on the list cann't be repeated more than twice in a row, unless it is a featured que or the only que that gives access to a certain rep mark type. This to me would mean bulking an creating atleast 2-3 stfs that reward marks of a rep, like right now i think there is 5-7 ques that give borg but only one or two that give nukara or romulan.
Though i would give the option to make private groups for any of the available ques, but i would also give some kind of reward for doing the public ques. This could range from bonus marks, unique boff, tailoring options, outfits, ship parts/materials.
What else do you think would be good rules for such a system to impliment to keep a good and varied selection of ques to run each week on a public list?
No there is enough ways of getting rep marks in the game that are solo-abl. I would rather see them institute a rotating que listing of stfs, which would be a list of 5-8 ques that rotates on a weekly or bi-weekly schedule. There is a thing of having too many choices that can paralyses people's ability to make a choice, and so giving them a limited set of choices that change weekly/bi-weekly you increase their ability to make that choice.
Issue with solo content that gives you rep marks is that it can drain the amount of players doing other content like group content, and battle-zones. The reason is the same as why certain group stf content is more populated than others, the faster an more efficient the content is the more players will gravitate towards it making other group content less populated. Why wait in que for a group to do a stf for marks if you can get the same or similar mark rewards for doing a solo mission/stf? Most players will go with the most effective an efficient method regardless of how fun or enjoyable it is. An as such increasing the solo content in a game does impede an impact the players wanting to play in groups in a game made for playing in groups an without other players, because the solo content siphons off players from group content because the rewards are easier or less of a hassle to gain an farm.
While I do agree that the rewards should reflect the content, and that solo content should reward less than group content, I differ in that I don't agree with the number of ways to get marks that are truly a solo effort. And the adding of solo content would not make me play STF's any less, but would alleviate a lot of frustration I have over having only to engage content that has other players that can interfere with me having fun. The choice is not currently present in the game to be able to advance end game content purely on my own merits, alone.
Though adding solo content that gives rep marks might not make you play stfs less, but this is not about you solely but the larger playerbase of sto an the impact it would have on them. There are many players that will gravitate towards the best way of grinding an farming for what they want, which adding easier an quicker solo-versions of stf content or rep content will become the most efficient method of grinding/farming marks (unless the reward for the content is really minuscule), and so will depopulate the ques further as go to the solo content for easier an faster grinding/farming times. You're looking at this from just your point of view in a game that is played by many more players, and even looking at the ques it is pretty well shown that the playerbase shifts to the easiest an quickest method of getting what they want. Also end game should not be a lone/solo form of content outside of story missions and battlezones that are a quasi-solo/group content that can be done both solo an group. I would suggest if you don't want to have to deal with other players affecting your playing of the game, as well as progress in the game than look into star trek single player games as that is what you seem to want to do. You have patrol missions that give out marks, battlezones, missions on many worlds that are doable solo,
Hmmm...take a moment and really look at what I have been saying.
Adding Solo content would open another avenue of play. Currently there is only one way to play end game and that is to do group oriented content. None of the end game content is solo oriented content. This is forcing people to play only one way. I am saying to open the way to more play styles. Like letting people to run the STF's solo if they want.
Your own paragraph is basically saying I have to play your way or go somewhere else. I am trying to say is allow for more ways to play and not limit it to just one way. I have direct experience in the fact that other MMO's do allow for the options and there group oriented content does not falter. The same could be done here if only they did in a manner that would support both ways of playing.
And I don't want to strictly play Star Trek alone, I just don't want my personal progress in the game being determined by the other players. That is not present in the game at this time. I am limited in my options based purely upon the fact that other players are not doing the STF content that I want to do. And until that changes I will always be looking for ways to taking the limitations that others impose on me away and giving me that freedom back. Other MMO's do this very successfully. It can be done here to.
I am saying that giving access to solo oriented versions of end game content is going to hurt the ques an group content as a whole. Since why go into group content for end game that gets you an additional 20 or 30 marks on completion of the run, when you can get largely the same rewards minus those additional marks doing quicker an easier content made for soloing, unless the solo content is on a longer lock-out compared to group content, or if you get a reduced quality of reward for doing the content in a solo manner (like the projects completed from marks gained in solo content are stat-wise worse than group varients). Now that i could see that a solo version of say Infected space might have a lock out of 1 hour to 1 an half hours compared to the group version having the normal 30 minute lock-out as now, as that would combat the players just evacuating into the solo versions an further leaving ques even worse off.
Well i have alot of experience in mmos going from Ultima online an abit before that an i have seen the opposite, as that when you give avenues to get end-game rewards like solo content that is end-game oriented it hurts the group end game as a whole. You will always have the die hard grouper types that will do group content even when it is the least popular or efficient method of getting end-game rewards, but on the whole the players will opt to do the easiest method of getting those same rewards. This is shown in the ques quite well that the easiest an more efficient ques are populated, while less efficient an harder ques are dead.Now if sto was built from the ground up to have both solo an group end game content, but that each was different giving unique rewards from each other that would be workable as each are distinct.
The issue with wanting to play the game how you want is that you are basically saying you want a pizza for dinner, even though you walked into a sushi restaurant an expect the chief to accommodate you by making you a pizza, just like you want to get the rewards an progress of the group content without dealing with the other players in the group content. The stfs were created as group content that in spirit is supposed to be done thru interactions with other players for better or worse, though sadly with the power-creep an changes this spirit of the content is less relevant at times, but there should always be content that is only doable thru groups just like having some content that is done solo (like story missions).
You are right battlegrounds, patrols are not solo content, but they are content that is open to being completed solo. I have grinded all of the reps on 6 characters up to max rank an getting most if not all of the rep gear from those reps, while doing them between 75-95% alone an solo with the most group contact i had was killing the planet-killers/starbases/T-rexes that are made around the idea of needing a large group or being highly over-geared to defeat. Most of the things just take longer to do solo as they should like doing the two missions on Kobali prime at the end for marks/elite marks, i mean i even capture/recapture points away from the blob of ships in the Undine bz which is quite interesting an slower, but also does make it so i don't completely deal with other players unless i chose to go over an deal with them.
I disagree that it will hurt the queues. In fact I think the queues will remain unaffected by the solo content. And I have already stated that their should be appropriate rewards for the content. Having it on longer cool downs would even be fine as long as the rewards were worth it. Second point is that BG's are around and I their presence has not lowered the queues at all.
As for experience in MMO's, I have been playing MMO's since the days of GEnie-Net. And in every MMO that I have played where the sole end content was group oriented, those games became hostile to those that were not as hardcore as those who played the end content. And those that didn't play the group content generally ended up leaving the game because they didn't like the treatment they were subjected too. This separation of the player base is never good. STO has it in DPS oriented players and the more casual players now.
My issue is not that I want pizza in a sushi bar, but that I walked into a pizza joint and got pizza for months, and then one day I get told that since I am a long term customer, I can't order pizza anymore but I now I can go and get the sushi in the VIP room they never told me about. From the start of this game you play solo. You advance through the story content by yourself till you hit level where you can finally go after the end game gear. And then you can only get that end game gear if you play group-oriented content (and only that group-oriented content) if you want to advance. This is not a very well done process. And they do not provide any transitional content, nor do they create any clear cut path of progression after you reach end-game content.
As for choosing to deal with other players in BG's and such, that is not always the case. I have started doing a capture point by myself and when I an more than halfway through it, some group of players come over and now everything gets harder, more units show and they can now be positioned in such a manner that they get to the targets before me. End result, I don't get the best possible experience for me, and I definitely don't max out my rewards. And now no matter which way I run, they are either going to follow me, or come along before I get the next point done and do the same thing again. The end result is that these people, and the way the game is designed, are taking the rewards away from me. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong, only that their presences is more disruptive than helpful and that is strictly because the game is coded that way. Not to mention the fact that the time I spend in a BG is generally longer than what I would have spent in an STF and the STF pays out better (for me at least).
All I am really trying to say is to open up more avenues of progression so that people can play how they want to play.
Though i would give the option to make private groups for any of the available ques, but i would also give some kind of reward for doing the public ques. This could range from bonus marks, unique boff, tailoring options, outfits, ship parts/materials.
That's in a way rewarding anti-social behavior. If you can't be bothered to socialize with others in the game, then it should be more difficult for you to do content intended for groups IMO.
How iws that rewarding anti social behavior? I mean you can do any ques you want with a private group if you want to put forth that effort, and get the rewards you want, but it is also rewarding players for keeping the public ques populated an intereacting with other players that they may not be grouped with otherwise. The ques are pretty anti-social an quite outside of pre-made groups already, and giving players rewards for making private group or socializing is just not as feasible possibility. I have seen equally social or non-social groups in pre-made an public ques, since being social is more about need or comfort in the group an content not how you make the group (even though making a group in the old lfg manner could make them abit more social.)
I would rather they found ways in the content of the stfs to make socializing an conversing with the group, and even making player team work (even interplay between careers) being more important to the success of the stf than dps alone. THis is kinda one of the reasons stfs/ques are so quite chat wise is that many are using voice coms, but also the need of working as a team is less important now since if you have enough dps you can steam roll the content alone.
You remember correctly.
But I remember the queues being a lot busier then too. So I wonder if that system was re-instated would the queues return to those level of activity again.
Well sure they were busier. There was only one running at a time.
Solo content isn't the answer. Making the rewards better is.
Making the rewards better is not the answer either.
But a combination of increasing rewards, specialty rewards and soloable content would be a better answer overall.
I am saying that giving access to solo oriented versions of end game content is going to hurt the ques an group content as a whole.
If people choose not to play a certain way, then the content isn't appealing enough to draw them. Limiting their options instead of improving and diversifying the content is exactly the wrong way to go, in my humble opinion. Regardless, it's a poor way to rationalize forcing people to play the way YOU want them to play.
as that would combat the players just evacuating into the solo versions an further leaving ques even worse off.
Why must that be "combatted"? Why is free will your enemy? The popularity of those queues should be driven by their merits alone, not by someone arbitrarily restricting their options.
but on the whole the players will opt to do the easiest method of getting those same rewards.
So what? Are you arguing that they should opt for the most difficult method, simply because it is more difficult?
Your opponent here is free will.
The issue with wanting to play the game how you want is that you are basically saying you want a pizza for dinner, even though you walked into a sushi restaurant an expect the chief to accommodate you by making you a pizza, just like you want to get the rewards an progress of the group content without dealing with the other players in the group content.
False. It's more like going to a restaurant and not wanting to wait for four strangers to place their orders before you get to eat. Sometimes people want company, sometimes they don't. Neither case is subject to your approval.
The stfs were created as group content that in spirit is supposed to be done thru interactions with other players for better or worse, though sadly with the power-creep an changes this spirit of the content is less relevant at times, but there should always be content that is only doable thru groups just like having some content that is done solo (like story missions).
So people should forgo enjoyment, in favor of the "spirit" of a queued mission? Ridiculous.
You are basically arguing that rigid adherence to a singular vision of how something "should" be played, takes precedence over what amount to free market forces within the game. I don't accept that. We're not in this game to prove our worthiness by performing the right rituals in the right way, to service someone's "intent" as it existed when a mission was created weeks/months/years ago. Things change. We're there to have fun as we see fit, and content that ignores this fact will be less popular. Yes, the multiplayer nature of it implies some social interaction, but it also requires you to tolerate the accommodation of differing points of view.
Can you be more specific? What are other players doing that prevent you from earning any marks at all? I know there are those who will collect all the magic rainbow pony fairy coins that drop from the sky in the Dyson BG without ever helping to capture a point, but that's not preventing you from earning any marks there.
And if you don't get to kill all three planet killers, you lose out on a lot of marks that way. And I have such a limited time to play most nights that I don't have the time to search through everything to min/max the players on a map. If you are saying that the only way to play the game is to min/max every aspect of the game then the game is designed wrong, because not every player is a min/maxer.
Well for starters, you're still earning marks for destroying one planet killer, so you're not losing out on anything. You also don't need to be present the entire time to destroy a planet killer. All that's required is doing some damage to it. Same went for the Dinos of dooooom! in the Dyson BG.
Content completed before you get there. Content being completed by people who like to min/max their ships so that I don't get hardly any shots in, being prevented from clicking on the things because people block the view. And these thing do prevent me from earning the most from the content, which is needed to be done if you are trying to get through the grind as quickly as possible. Getting 5 or so marks is not the worth the pain and suffering of dealing with others to get it.
As for gaining marks from one planet killer doesn't make up for gaining it from three. And the distance involved is manageable for planet killers, if you are aware of how fast the others are going down. Dinos is another story all together as I find those maps difficult to maneuver at the best of times. And for some reason the layout just doesn't make sense to me (which is another reason why I don't go there if I can help it).
Though i would give the option to make private groups for any of the available ques, but i would also give some kind of reward for doing the public ques. This could range from bonus marks, unique boff, tailoring options, outfits, ship parts/materials.
That's in a way rewarding anti-social behavior. If you can't be bothered to socialize with others in the game, then it should be more difficult for you to do content intended for groups IMO.
I'm lost on this logic. Can't see how it's anti-social to join a group.
Making the rewards better is not the answer either.
But a combination of increasing rewards, specialty rewards and soloable content would be a better answer overall.
You already have several methods of earning various marks through solo play in the game. The problem as I'm reading is that people don't play the way you want them to.
Problem is that the content you think is solo play, is not solo at all. You can play it without being in a group, but there are others still there. And that is not Solo play by any definition I have ever seen.
And you are reading something I have not written. I am not saying that they not playing they way I want them too, I am saying that I am not getting to play they way I want to. And that is a limitation of the game, as it stands, that exist ONLY with end game content. Leveling and playing the stories allow you to either play solo or with others. Nothing at end games allows that. That's what I would like to see changed. More content that can be played with out having to make a group or interact with other players at end game.
I'm lost on this logic. Can't see how it's anti-social to join a group.
How is clicking on a button to join a queue "socializing"? Do you need to interact with anyone to join a public queue? There is far more socializing involved with joining a fleet, making friends, communicating with each other to set up matches etc.
I can click to join a public queue without ever communicating with another player or interacting with them in any way.
Most of my interactions with others in this game comes through PUG's. As we say hi and maybe say a thing or two about what we are going to do. General chat I don't tend to join in on because of the nature of that channel. Not much there for me to want to interact with it. And the times I play tends to me during the dead times of my fleet and Armada.
Problem is that the content you think is solo play, is not solo at all. You can play it without being in a group, but there are others still there. And that is not Solo play by any definition I have ever seen.
If you're not on a team, you're solo.
False. Those other people don't stop existing just because they don't see your Team Chat messages. The question is whether they are able to affect your game play at all.
Problem is that the content you think is solo play, is not solo at all. You can play it without being in a group, but there are others still there. And that is not Solo play by any definition I have ever seen.
If you're not on a team, you're solo.
Wrong. If your in the instance alone your Solo. If your running a BG and one other player is there you are doing group content.
Solo means it's all on you to get it done. If others can come in and do the content and help progress towards the goal then this is a group effort. It's not all on you.
False. Those other people don't stop existing just because they don't see your Team Chat messages. The question is whether they are able to affect your game play at all.
I disagree. I personally don't have any issues with other players impacting my gameplay in a battlezone, whether I'm on a team or not. I just don't see how it's so detrimental to have other people playing the game when you're still able to obtain marks by yourself without ever needing to team up.
It's detrimental in the fact that what ever they complete, you can't and there fore loose out on those rewards.
It's detrimental in the fact that what ever they complete, you can't and there fore loose out on those rewards.
But you don't lose out on anything. If you participated, you earn marks. You can always run it again when the zone resets after 2 minutes as well.
If they complete something on a part of the map you are not at, then you loose out on those marks. And running it again is not always an immediate option. And running it again still means that people will complete content in portions of the map you are not at and there fore loose out on the rewards.
And if I was truly running this solo, then there would be no need to "run it again" because I didn't miss out on anything. Maximum fun and reward.
Game designers want people to socialize in their game because they know people are more inclined to stick with said game if they are part of a social group. They want you to talk to people, play together, form teams and the like.
Public queues don't require any kind of social interaction anymore to find friends or other like-minded players.
I'm lost on this logic. Can't see how it's anti-social to join a group.
How is clicking on a button to join a queue "socializing"? Do you need to interact with anyone to join a public queue? There is far more socializing involved with joining a fleet, making friends, communicating with each other to set up matches etc.
I can click to join a public queue without ever communicating with another player or interacting with them in any way.
Yeah using the chatting manner of getting into a group by spamming chats/fleets "looking for a group" might be more social, while clicking the join on a public que is less social yet is quicker, yet both are tools to get into groups to do group content with pros an cons to each that lead to socializing. As such adding a bonus into the public que that entices players into group content can lead to more socializing as they are more likely to meet players they might want to play with again, though the barrier to socializing is not the lfg system, but is the fact that content is so short an easy to complete without much teamwork or socializing that players just don't see a need or desire to do such.
Some of my closest gamer friends i meet thru the lfg system using it to complete dungeons an meeting interesting players, which I kept in touch with that i might not have meet otherwise on the server, and which than lead to making guilds an socializing more with these additional people. THe first thing that it all stemmed from is getting into a group with people an doing the content that needed socializing an contact, which than moves forwards into the other areas, which is why anything that pushes for easier group making is good so long as the content is made in a way to make socializing part of the content an a needed aspect of it. When socializing in the stfs is not needed the other players even if you joined them via channels can begin to look like obstacles an a means to an end to get what you are after.
Issue with all of those more social things you listed is that they all can stem from getting into groups with people, that could be from a public que or from a looking for group message/channel. But also when you do instance/dungeons/stfs from fleets or friends you are only socializing in a known group, while a public que can lead to new friends an fleets or intereactions outside that group leading to more socializing.
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You remember correctly.
But I remember the queues being a lot busier then too. So I wonder if that system was re-instated would the queues return to those level of activity again.
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Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I am saying that giving access to solo oriented versions of end game content is going to hurt the ques an group content as a whole. Since why go into group content for end game that gets you an additional 20 or 30 marks on completion of the run, when you can get largely the same rewards minus those additional marks doing quicker an easier content made for soloing, unless the solo content is on a longer lock-out compared to group content, or if you get a reduced quality of reward for doing the content in a solo manner (like the projects completed from marks gained in solo content are stat-wise worse than group varients). Now that i could see that a solo version of say Infected space might have a lock out of 1 hour to 1 an half hours compared to the group version having the normal 30 minute lock-out as now, as that would combat the players just evacuating into the solo versions an further leaving ques even worse off.
Well i have alot of experience in mmos going from Ultima online an abit before that an i have seen the opposite, as that when you give avenues to get end-game rewards like solo content that is end-game oriented it hurts the group end game as a whole. You will always have the die hard grouper types that will do group content even when it is the least popular or efficient method of getting end-game rewards, but on the whole the players will opt to do the easiest method of getting those same rewards. This is shown in the ques quite well that the easiest an more efficient ques are populated, while less efficient an harder ques are dead.Now if sto was built from the ground up to have both solo an group end game content, but that each was different giving unique rewards from each other that would be workable as each are distinct.
The issue with wanting to play the game how you want is that you are basically saying you want a pizza for dinner, even though you walked into a sushi restaurant an expect the chief to accommodate you by making you a pizza, just like you want to get the rewards an progress of the group content without dealing with the other players in the group content. The stfs were created as group content that in spirit is supposed to be done thru interactions with other players for better or worse, though sadly with the power-creep an changes this spirit of the content is less relevant at times, but there should always be content that is only doable thru groups just like having some content that is done solo (like story missions).
You are right battlegrounds, patrols are not solo content, but they are content that is open to being completed solo. I have grinded all of the reps on 6 characters up to max rank an getting most if not all of the rep gear from those reps, while doing them between 75-95% alone an solo with the most group contact i had was killing the planet-killers/starbases/T-rexes that are made around the idea of needing a large group or being highly over-geared to defeat. Most of the things just take longer to do solo as they should like doing the two missions on Kobali prime at the end for marks/elite marks, i mean i even capture/recapture points away from the blob of ships in the Undine bz which is quite interesting an slower, but also does make it so i don't completely deal with other players unless i chose to go over an deal with them.
What else do you think would be good rules for such a system to impliment to keep a good and varied selection of ques to run each week on a public list?
I disagree that it will hurt the queues. In fact I think the queues will remain unaffected by the solo content. And I have already stated that their should be appropriate rewards for the content. Having it on longer cool downs would even be fine as long as the rewards were worth it. Second point is that BG's are around and I their presence has not lowered the queues at all.
As for experience in MMO's, I have been playing MMO's since the days of GEnie-Net. And in every MMO that I have played where the sole end content was group oriented, those games became hostile to those that were not as hardcore as those who played the end content. And those that didn't play the group content generally ended up leaving the game because they didn't like the treatment they were subjected too. This separation of the player base is never good. STO has it in DPS oriented players and the more casual players now.
My issue is not that I want pizza in a sushi bar, but that I walked into a pizza joint and got pizza for months, and then one day I get told that since I am a long term customer, I can't order pizza anymore but I now I can go and get the sushi in the VIP room they never told me about. From the start of this game you play solo. You advance through the story content by yourself till you hit level where you can finally go after the end game gear. And then you can only get that end game gear if you play group-oriented content (and only that group-oriented content) if you want to advance. This is not a very well done process. And they do not provide any transitional content, nor do they create any clear cut path of progression after you reach end-game content.
As for choosing to deal with other players in BG's and such, that is not always the case. I have started doing a capture point by myself and when I an more than halfway through it, some group of players come over and now everything gets harder, more units show and they can now be positioned in such a manner that they get to the targets before me. End result, I don't get the best possible experience for me, and I definitely don't max out my rewards. And now no matter which way I run, they are either going to follow me, or come along before I get the next point done and do the same thing again. The end result is that these people, and the way the game is designed, are taking the rewards away from me. I am not saying they are doing anything wrong, only that their presences is more disruptive than helpful and that is strictly because the game is coded that way. Not to mention the fact that the time I spend in a BG is generally longer than what I would have spent in an STF and the STF pays out better (for me at least).
All I am really trying to say is to open up more avenues of progression so that people can play how they want to play.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I would rather they found ways in the content of the stfs to make socializing an conversing with the group, and even making player team work (even interplay between careers) being more important to the success of the stf than dps alone. THis is kinda one of the reasons stfs/ques are so quite chat wise is that many are using voice coms, but also the need of working as a team is less important now since if you have enough dps you can steam roll the content alone.
Making the rewards better is not the answer either.
But a combination of increasing rewards, specialty rewards and soloable content would be a better answer overall.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
If people choose not to play a certain way, then the content isn't appealing enough to draw them. Limiting their options instead of improving and diversifying the content is exactly the wrong way to go, in my humble opinion. Regardless, it's a poor way to rationalize forcing people to play the way YOU want them to play.
Why must that be "combatted"? Why is free will your enemy? The popularity of those queues should be driven by their merits alone, not by someone arbitrarily restricting their options.
So what? Are you arguing that they should opt for the most difficult method, simply because it is more difficult?
Your opponent here is free will.
False. It's more like going to a restaurant and not wanting to wait for four strangers to place their orders before you get to eat. Sometimes people want company, sometimes they don't. Neither case is subject to your approval.
So people should forgo enjoyment, in favor of the "spirit" of a queued mission? Ridiculous.
You are basically arguing that rigid adherence to a singular vision of how something "should" be played, takes precedence over what amount to free market forces within the game. I don't accept that. We're not in this game to prove our worthiness by performing the right rituals in the right way, to service someone's "intent" as it existed when a mission was created weeks/months/years ago. Things change. We're there to have fun as we see fit, and content that ignores this fact will be less popular. Yes, the multiplayer nature of it implies some social interaction, but it also requires you to tolerate the accommodation of differing points of view.
Content completed before you get there. Content being completed by people who like to min/max their ships so that I don't get hardly any shots in, being prevented from clicking on the things because people block the view. And these thing do prevent me from earning the most from the content, which is needed to be done if you are trying to get through the grind as quickly as possible. Getting 5 or so marks is not the worth the pain and suffering of dealing with others to get it.
As for gaining marks from one planet killer doesn't make up for gaining it from three. And the distance involved is manageable for planet killers, if you are aware of how fast the others are going down. Dinos is another story all together as I find those maps difficult to maneuver at the best of times. And for some reason the layout just doesn't make sense to me (which is another reason why I don't go there if I can help it).
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I'm lost on this logic. Can't see how it's anti-social to join a group.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Problem is that the content you think is solo play, is not solo at all. You can play it without being in a group, but there are others still there. And that is not Solo play by any definition I have ever seen.
And you are reading something I have not written. I am not saying that they not playing they way I want them too, I am saying that I am not getting to play they way I want to. And that is a limitation of the game, as it stands, that exist ONLY with end game content. Leveling and playing the stories allow you to either play solo or with others. Nothing at end games allows that. That's what I would like to see changed. More content that can be played with out having to make a group or interact with other players at end game.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Most of my interactions with others in this game comes through PUG's. As we say hi and maybe say a thing or two about what we are going to do. General chat I don't tend to join in on because of the nature of that channel. Not much there for me to want to interact with it. And the times I play tends to me during the dead times of my fleet and Armada.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
False. Those other people don't stop existing just because they don't see your Team Chat messages. The question is whether they are able to affect your game play at all.
Solo means it's all on you to get it done. If others can come in and do the content and help progress towards the goal then this is a group effort. It's not all on you.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
It's detrimental in the fact that what ever they complete, you can't and there fore loose out on those rewards.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
If they complete something on a part of the map you are not at, then you loose out on those marks. And running it again is not always an immediate option. And running it again still means that people will complete content in portions of the map you are not at and there fore loose out on the rewards.
And if I was truly running this solo, then there would be no need to "run it again" because I didn't miss out on anything. Maximum fun and reward.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Yeah using the chatting manner of getting into a group by spamming chats/fleets "looking for a group" might be more social, while clicking the join on a public que is less social yet is quicker, yet both are tools to get into groups to do group content with pros an cons to each that lead to socializing. As such adding a bonus into the public que that entices players into group content can lead to more socializing as they are more likely to meet players they might want to play with again, though the barrier to socializing is not the lfg system, but is the fact that content is so short an easy to complete without much teamwork or socializing that players just don't see a need or desire to do such.
Some of my closest gamer friends i meet thru the lfg system using it to complete dungeons an meeting interesting players, which I kept in touch with that i might not have meet otherwise on the server, and which than lead to making guilds an socializing more with these additional people. THe first thing that it all stemmed from is getting into a group with people an doing the content that needed socializing an contact, which than moves forwards into the other areas, which is why anything that pushes for easier group making is good so long as the content is made in a way to make socializing part of the content an a needed aspect of it. When socializing in the stfs is not needed the other players even if you joined them via channels can begin to look like obstacles an a means to an end to get what you are after.
Issue with all of those more social things you listed is that they all can stem from getting into groups with people, that could be from a public que or from a looking for group message/channel. But also when you do instance/dungeons/stfs from fleets or friends you are only socializing in a known group, while a public que can lead to new friends an fleets or intereactions outside that group leading to more socializing.