Instant gratification mentality is strong with this thread.
"We want all the rewards and we want them now and easy !!!".
Oh, what a tragedy for the game that not everyone can tag all three dinos-with-lasers, three planet-killers or whatever...
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that.
I do recall people in this thread saying allowing them to run the group content solo-able or to create solo content that rewards appropriately for the effort.
As for tagging all the planet killers, I was pointing out how people loose out on rewards do to the action of others. SO unless you wish to dispute the facts, please do not respond with jeers, unfounded accusations and bullying tactics.
If you are saying that the only way to play the game is to min/max every aspect of the game then the game is designed wrong, because not every player is a min/maxer.
This x100. And I'm of the belief that the sheer majority of players are NOT min/max players. There's an elite minority who are and who try and drive the direction of games, in fact.
As to the addition of more content- I don't believe there's a "malicious conspiracy" to not group and do queues etc, but I do always believe that adding more content for the individual is always a good thing. Sure it's an MMO- but very rarely do you see large groups of people able to coordinate schedules and so forth in order to achieve goals.
That said, as far as the individual "end game" player, there's a lack of non-repetitive content for people to engage in- the only caveat here is Foundry missions but even those are "hit and miss". This isn't inherent to STO, however- it happens in almost every MMO out there, because devs can only develop so quickly as the players rush through the content. (some rather purposefully, because they hate "grinding")
Sometimes I really feel for MMO devs because it's akin to herding cats...
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
The Planet Killers are easier to take down and participate in more that one than the Dinos. Actually in both cases participating in the takedown of even one will get you the full reward of the Elite Marks. Mark payout will be lower as well as the Dilitium, but I am usually there for the Elite Marks, not to scam the Dilitium payouts with all this tagging and running to the next.
I tend to stay around the dead corpse because inevitably if I try to run to another that is killed before I get there and I get nothing because I am not in a Dino area.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The PvE's are dead unless its a event. I've been sitting in a few and gave up today. As much as I hate having less people in them it may be an option for some to get the stuff they need.
If you are saying that the only way to play the game is to min/max every aspect of the game then the game is designed wrong, because not every player is a min/maxer.
This x100. And I'm of the belief that the sheer majority of players are NOT min/max players. There's an elite minority who are and who try and drive the direction of games, in fact.
As to the addition of more content- I don't believe there's a "malicious conspiracy" to not group and do queues etc, but I do always believe that adding more content for the individual is always a good thing. Sure it's an MMO- but very rarely do you see large groups of people able to coordinate schedules and so forth in order to achieve goals.
That said, as far as the individual "end game" player, there's a lack of non-repetitive content for people to engage in- the only caveat here is Foundry missions but even those are "hit and miss". This isn't inherent to STO, however- it happens in almost every MMO out there, because devs can only develop so quickly as the players rush through the content. (some rather purposefully, because they hate "grinding")
Sometimes I really feel for MMO devs because it's akin to herding cats...
Okay...so I'll ask you this...who's a min/maxer? Am I one because I know how to make a 150+k boat? Despite the fact that I don't actually have one of those...although I could make one, I do have the resources for it. Is anyone who can solo a borg red alert one? Because if so, the whole majority kinda goes out the window since the vast majority of people I see in red alerts can solo them. Are you a min/maxer if you can capture a BZ point by yourself? If so, then...yeah definately the whole majority thing goes out since I don't think I have yet to see anyone in a BZ who couldn't do that. Or is a min/maxer just somebody you don't like because they are better at the game then you? I'm gonna say it's probably the last one. Now there are DPS chasers...who ARE the minority...but if you actually don't care how the game works or how to improve yourself in the game to the best resources you have (that includes your time), then can you truely be said to be playing the game? Do you honestly have a right to complain on how the game is progressing if you are so unwilling to put in your own effort? Or have so little understanding of how it all even works? Min/maxing is a term that means minimize weakness and maximize strengths. You should be doing this in ANY game if you want to get good at it. Min/maxing is not a bad term...or it's not suppose to be...but you all keep using it to mean somebody you don't like because they are better then you...and how is being better then you at a game suppose to be a BAD thing anyways?!? I'm baffled by people these days.
As far as not group up...people have learned that red alerts, tau dewa patrols and delta patrols along with battle zones gives out WAY better reward for effort then hoping that your PUG doesn't suck. The only real exception to this is CCA. Even ISA doesn't pop all the time anymore. Instead of making single player versions, they should just let you do the mission solo if you want to. I mean those DPS chasers I am sure would LOVE to do some of these things along to show off their e-peen. I sure as hell wouldn't mind running some of the queues I like alone if i couldn't be bothered to collect some souls...or start em with just a couple fleeties who quickly join...but change it for single player...yeah...not really sold on that. Like others have said, it feels more like give me give me give me all now.
And herding cats is easy compared to what the devs have to deal with from this bunch of yahoos.
You sure seem to make a lot of generalized assumptions about me in particular, considering you don't know me. I don't believe I addressed you- nor did I explicitly detail what I meant by "min/maxing" in the first place.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
Something i mentioned earlier in this topic has yet to receive comments: Why not add marks to the (former) featured episodes?
A bit of variation and the community has a reason to replay the FE once they have acquired the gear they offer.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Even if you are playing with the best of the best of the best, if they are doing 50 times your DPS, that means you are doing between 3-4k. In which case, you have no buisness in the advanced or elite queue you joined to be teamed with suck DPS monsters. And even then, you won't get the AFK penalty. If they are doing 100 times and you are in the 1-2k range and you joing up in advanced or elite, YOU DESERVE THE AFK PENALTY for being a damn leecher.
never hit by afk myself, but thanks for demonstrating you are a useless egotistical intellectually-vacant jackass who cant deal with the subject at hand with out demonstrating you are part of the toxicity problem in sto. since all you posted was vapid e-peenery and personal attacks.
You do realize that I mock the moar DPS crowd mercilessly...right? Just like I mock the useless 1k DPS person who joins an elite STF and then complains that they got the AFK penalty. BOTH these types of people deserve much mocking...sorry if I hit a nerve...well actually not really. I don't really care what you think of me...I have no idea why you would think I would based on previous interactions. I think you have very bad ideas for the most part, you think I am a DPSer for some unkown reason...despite the fact that I have been a very big vocal opponent of the DPS channels and their douchebaggery. So stop waving your e-peen at me...I am not interested in you in that way...or actually any way.
You do realize that mocking, by it's very nature, is unproductive and useless. In fact, mocking is nothing more than a method of bullying. Mocking never solves a problem and only makes things worse for those that are being mocked.
And to think that people deserve to be mocked makes you no better than the elitist that can be in the DPS channels.
You seem to be mixing name calling with mocking. Mocking does have a purpose because since mocking has to based on more then just I don't like and you actually doing something worth mocking, it serves as a way to show you that you are wrong because you being just told that just isn't enough for some people. Besides, if you can't take the heat from what you are going to say...don't say it. What you say obviously isn't worth while if your reply to even the slightiest bit of criticism is to go whaaa, you're being a meanie. Either reply with something meaningful or don't reply at all. I don't mind if you have an insulting tone or agressive stance...as long as you have something MEANINGFUL to rebuttle my points. If all you can come up with is don't be a meanie with ZERO rebuttles to my points...well that's worth mocking.
Communication is much better without the mocking. Communication can be meaningful with out hurting someone's feelings while doing it. If you can't communicate without mocking, jeering or any other form of hurtful interaction is not meaningful in an intellectual level and only serve to create an emotional reaction. So to me, mocking has no usefulness in a logical discussion and is not a necessary way to drive home a point. In fact, mocking to me is nothing more than a form of bullying, like I said. Because mocking is only used to illicit an emotional response. Emotional responses, while may happen, should not be how you sway an argument to your viewpoint. It should only be my logical discourse. The speakers can be emotional and passionate about what they are saying, but mocking is not needed to convey those emotional ties.
So if you want to continue discussing anything with others, just remember that to some others. mocking will not be received well and will most likely be counter productive to making your point, maybe even going so far as proving to them the lack of intelligent thought you have actually applied to the discussion. And then your points will be either discounted, or even worse used as proof as to fact that your not able to logically respond to the discussion so you have no possible real, intelligent defense of your position.
SO that is my point with you, your mocking does you no service, unless you wish to be taking as a Neanderthal whose only capable response to the discussion is to belittle, denigrate or otherwise dishonor the true topic and the people discussing it.
As for tagging all the planet killers, I was pointing out how people loose out on rewards do to the action of others. SO unless you wish to dispute the facts, please do not respond with jeers, unfounded accusations and bullying tactics.
Yes, we do dispute that fact...emphatically in fact. We have said it MUTIPLE TIMES. You alone seem to be the only one who does not get this concept since you alone keep bring this up. I mean your other points has support and possibly merit...but this one thing you keep getting stuck on has no support...in reality, in society, in community...it's JUST YOU. Yes, sometimes it's the world that is wrong and you could be the lone correct voice...but more likely, when everyone says you are wrong, you are wrong.
I can accept the fact that you do not wish to see this as an issue. But I know that I do. I am aware that others think this too. Just because you do not want to accept the facts does not in any way lessen those facts.
If you are saying that the only way to play the game is to min/max every aspect of the game then the game is designed wrong, because not every player is a min/maxer.
This x100. And I'm of the belief that the sheer majority of players are NOT min/max players. There's an elite minority who are and who try and drive the direction of games, in fact.
As to the addition of more content- I don't believe there's a "malicious conspiracy" to not group and do queues etc, but I do always believe that adding more content for the individual is always a good thing. Sure it's an MMO- but very rarely do you see large groups of people able to coordinate schedules and so forth in order to achieve goals.
That said, as far as the individual "end game" player, there's a lack of non-repetitive content for people to engage in- the only caveat here is Foundry missions but even those are "hit and miss". This isn't inherent to STO, however- it happens in almost every MMO out there, because devs can only develop so quickly as the players rush through the content. (some rather purposefully, because they hate "grinding")
Sometimes I really feel for MMO devs because it's akin to herding cats...
Okay...so I'll ask you this...who's a min/maxer? Am I one because I know how to make a 150+k boat? Despite the fact that I don't actually have one of those...although I could make one, I do have the resources for it. Is anyone who can solo a borg red alert one? Because if so, the whole majority kinda goes out the window since the vast majority of people I see in red alerts can solo them. Are you a min/maxer if you can capture a BZ point by yourself? If so, then...yeah definately the whole majority thing goes out since I don't think I have yet to see anyone in a BZ who couldn't do that. Or is a min/maxer just somebody you don't like because they are better at the game then you? I'm gonna say it's probably the last one. Now there are DPS chasers...who ARE the minority...but if you actually don't care how the game works or how to improve yourself in the game to the best resources you have (that includes your time), then can you truely be said to be playing the game? Do you honestly have a right to complain on how the game is progressing if you are so unwilling to put in your own effort? Or have so little understanding of how it all even works? Min/maxing is a term that means minimize weakness and maximize strengths. You should be doing this in ANY game if you want to get good at it. Min/maxing is not a bad term...or it's not suppose to be...but you all keep using it to mean somebody you don't like because they are better then you...and how is being better then you at a game suppose to be a BAD thing anyways?!? I'm baffled by people these days.
As far as not group up...people have learned that red alerts, tau dewa patrols and delta patrols along with battle zones gives out WAY better reward for effort then hoping that your PUG doesn't suck. The only real exception to this is CCA. Even ISA doesn't pop all the time anymore. Instead of making single player versions, they should just let you do the mission solo if you want to. I mean those DPS chasers I am sure would LOVE to do some of these things along to show off their e-peen. I sure as hell wouldn't mind running some of the queues I like alone if i couldn't be bothered to collect some souls...or start em with just a couple fleeties who quickly join...but change it for single player...yeah...not really sold on that. Like others have said, it feels more like give me give me give me all now.
And herding cats is easy compared to what the devs have to deal with from this bunch of yahoos.
To answer your question about min/maxing, here's my take on what that is.
Min/Maxer's, for whatever personal reason, work towards the goal of minimizing their failure rate by maximizing their numbers that's leads to that success. How a person does that in a game is controlled by that games mechanics, so they go about figuring out all of the formulas necessary to complete that goal. How they do it is only relevant to that particular game. The fact that they put so much time and effort into this results in the fun they have is not an issue with me. Expecting me to be this same way
is.
Personally, my fun in a game is taking what I do have and seeing what I can achieve, conquer, overcome and accomplish with out having to know the "numbers" or doing the best way possible. But then, I don't expect everyone to play in this same way. A lot of min/maxer's that I have encountered have that opposite opinion, and general take overly aggressive, derogatory and bullying methods to try and force it upon others. And those people ruin it for the rest that are not that way.
Running a BZ is min/maxing. Nor being able to do the most DPS min/maxing. It's the thought process behind the choices you make and why you make them that is min/maxing. Ultimately, as long as everyone is having fun and not infringing on others ability to have fun is what a game should be about. And a game that can accommodate the broadest base of players and their playstyles will make a game more successful than not. Because they will then be able to appeal to greatest number of people to spend money on the game and keep spending that money. Because there is always something for them to want.
I hope that is useful to you. And don't try to argue the points please. This is just the way I see things and feel no need to defend nor discuss these points. They are only expressed here because you asked otherwise I would not have presented it.
Something i mentioned earlier in this topic has yet to receive comments: Why not add marks to the (former) featured episodes?
A bit of variation and the community has a reason to replay the FE once they have acquired the gear they offer.
That's fine for marks, but what about stuff like BNPs and such? They need those if they want to buy rep gear.
Since they added the task where you can convert marks to their respective elite marks, you should be able to get things accomplished by just amassing marks.
Something i mentioned earlier in this topic has yet to receive comments: Why not add marks to the (former) featured episodes?
A bit of variation and the community has a reason to replay the FE once they have acquired the gear they offer.
The only issue to me would be making sure the marks reward is low enough so as to not make it better than running Queue's. Maybe also making them as a one of the rewards to choose might help with that, so that you have to decide do you get the gear or the marks.
Even if you are playing with the best of the best of the best, if they are doing 50 times your DPS, that means you are doing between 3-4k. In which case, you have no buisness in the advanced or elite queue you joined to be teamed with suck DPS monsters. And even then, you won't get the AFK penalty. If they are doing 100 times and you are in the 1-2k range and you joing up in advanced or elite, YOU DESERVE THE AFK PENALTY for being a damn leecher.
never hit by afk myself, but thanks for demonstrating you are a useless egotistical intellectually-vacant jackass who cant deal with the subject at hand with out demonstrating you are part of the toxicity problem in sto. since all you posted was vapid e-peenery and personal attacks.
You do realize that I mock the moar DPS crowd mercilessly...right? Just like I mock the useless 1k DPS person who joins an elite STF and then complains that they got the AFK penalty. BOTH these types of people deserve much mocking...sorry if I hit a nerve...well actually not really. I don't really care what you think of me...I have no idea why you would think I would based on previous interactions. I think you have very bad ideas for the most part, you think I am a DPSer for some unkown reason...despite the fact that I have been a very big vocal opponent of the DPS channels and their douchebaggery. So stop waving your e-peen at me...I am not interested in you in that way...or actually any way.
You do realize that mocking, by it's very nature, is unproductive and useless. In fact, mocking is nothing more than a method of bullying. Mocking never solves a problem and only makes things worse for those that are being mocked.
And to think that people deserve to be mocked makes you no better than the elitist that can be in the DPS channels.
You seem to be mixing name calling with mocking. Mocking does have a purpose because since mocking has to based on more then just I don't like and you actually doing something worth mocking, it serves as a way to show you that you are wrong because you being just told that just isn't enough for some people. Besides, if you can't take the heat from what you are going to say...don't say it. What you say obviously isn't worth while if your reply to even the slightiest bit of criticism is to go whaaa, you're being a meanie. Either reply with something meaningful or don't reply at all. I don't mind if you have an insulting tone or agressive stance...as long as you have something MEANINGFUL to rebuttle my points. If all you can come up with is don't be a meanie with ZERO rebuttles to my points...well that's worth mocking.
Communication is much better without the mocking. Communication can be meaningful with out hurting someone's feelings while doing it. If you can't communicate without mocking, jeering or any other form of hurtful interaction is not meaningful in an intellectual level and only serve to create an emotional reaction. So to me, mocking has no usefulness in a logical discussion and is not a necessary way to drive home a point. In fact, mocking to me is nothing more than a form of bullying, like I said. Because mocking is only used to illicit an emotional response. Emotional responses, while may happen, should not be how you sway an argument to your viewpoint. It should only be my logical discourse. The speakers can be emotional and passionate about what they are saying, but mocking is not needed to convey those emotional ties.
So if you want to continue discussing anything with others, just remember that to some others. mocking will not be received well and will most likely be counter productive to making your point, maybe even going so far as proving to them the lack of intelligent thought you have actually applied to the discussion. And then your points will be either discounted, or even worse used as proof as to fact that your not able to logically respond to the discussion so you have no possible real, intelligent defense of your position.
SO that is my point with you, your mocking does you no service, unless you wish to be taking as a Neanderthal whose only capable response to the discussion is to belittle, denigrate or otherwise dishonor the true topic and the people discussing it.
Mocking does me a service. It weeds out those who are too stupid to seperate emotional responses from the intelligence behind it. If you can't figure that out...I don't really care what you have to say or what you think of me. Which is why I don't care how you say it...just WHAT you say. So yes, I do value a logical debate...but that ain't what you have provided so far.
And if you are so thin skinned, poltically correct, special snowflake that you just can't take it...well...sorry hon, but you shouldn't be interacting with other humans then. I suggest you grow up and learn to deal with things like this...or not...like I actually care.
If you live by the fact that mocking is the only way to interact, then I feel sorry for you. For your outlook on life is to negative to allow interaction with people that may have such a wonderful way at looking at things because they wear their heart on their sleeves. You do disservice to yourself, others and humans as a whole.
As for my responses, I see that you are unable or unwilling to accept actual logic from me. That is your loss and not my problem.
And I will remain to my point of what mocking is, and your continued presentation of yourself will always therefore color my view of you.
Even if you are playing with the best of the best of the best, if they are doing 50 times your DPS, that means you are doing between 3-4k. In which case, you have no buisness in the advanced or elite queue you joined to be teamed with suck DPS monsters. And even then, you won't get the AFK penalty. If they are doing 100 times and you are in the 1-2k range and you joing up in advanced or elite, YOU DESERVE THE AFK PENALTY for being a damn leecher.
never hit by afk myself, but thanks for demonstrating you are a useless egotistical intellectually-vacant jackass who cant deal with the subject at hand with out demonstrating you are part of the toxicity problem in sto. since all you posted was vapid e-peenery and personal attacks.
You do realize that I mock the moar DPS crowd mercilessly...right? Just like I mock the useless 1k DPS person who joins an elite STF and then complains that they got the AFK penalty. BOTH these types of people deserve much mocking...sorry if I hit a nerve...well actually not really. I don't really care what you think of me...I have no idea why you would think I would based on previous interactions. I think you have very bad ideas for the most part, you think I am a DPSer for some unkown reason...despite the fact that I have been a very big vocal opponent of the DPS channels and their douchebaggery. So stop waving your e-peen at me...I am not interested in you in that way...or actually any way.
You do realize that mocking, by it's very nature, is unproductive and useless. In fact, mocking is nothing more than a method of bullying. Mocking never solves a problem and only makes things worse for those that are being mocked.
And to think that people deserve to be mocked makes you no better than the elitist that can be in the DPS channels.
You seem to be mixing name calling with mocking. Mocking does have a purpose because since mocking has to based on more then just I don't like and you actually doing something worth mocking, it serves as a way to show you that you are wrong because you being just told that just isn't enough for some people. Besides, if you can't take the heat from what you are going to say...don't say it. What you say obviously isn't worth while if your reply to even the slightiest bit of criticism is to go whaaa, you're being a meanie. Either reply with something meaningful or don't reply at all. I don't mind if you have an insulting tone or agressive stance...as long as you have something MEANINGFUL to rebuttle my points. If all you can come up with is don't be a meanie with ZERO rebuttles to my points...well that's worth mocking.
Communication is much better without the mocking. Communication can be meaningful with out hurting someone's feelings while doing it. If you can't communicate without mocking, jeering or any other form of hurtful interaction is not meaningful in an intellectual level and only serve to create an emotional reaction. So to me, mocking has no usefulness in a logical discussion and is not a necessary way to drive home a point. In fact, mocking to me is nothing more than a form of bullying, like I said. Because mocking is only used to illicit an emotional response. Emotional responses, while may happen, should not be how you sway an argument to your viewpoint. It should only be my logical discourse. The speakers can be emotional and passionate about what they are saying, but mocking is not needed to convey those emotional ties.
So if you want to continue discussing anything with others, just remember that to some others. mocking will not be received well and will most likely be counter productive to making your point, maybe even going so far as proving to them the lack of intelligent thought you have actually applied to the discussion. And then your points will be either discounted, or even worse used as proof as to fact that your not able to logically respond to the discussion so you have no possible real, intelligent defense of your position.
SO that is my point with you, your mocking does you no service, unless you wish to be taking as a Neanderthal whose only capable response to the discussion is to belittle, denigrate or otherwise dishonor the true topic and the people discussing it.
Mocking does me a service. It weeds out those who are too stupid to seperate emotional responses from the intelligence behind it. If you can't figure that out...I don't really care what you have to say or what you think of me. Which is why I don't care how you say it...just WHAT you say. So yes, I do value a logical debate...but that ain't what you have provided so far.
And if you are so thin skinned, poltically correct, special snowflake that you just can't take it...well...sorry hon, but you shouldn't be interacting with other humans then. I suggest you grow up and learn to deal with things like this...or not...like I actually care.
So in other words...,
"I'm always going to be mean and pissy because I can and I like doing it, so TRIBBLE you and the horse you rode in on too."
Quite the quality-of-life sensibility you have there... do you treat your loved ones that way also?
<smh>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
As for tagging all the planet killers, I was pointing out how people loose out on rewards do to the action of others. SO unless you wish to dispute the facts, please do not respond with jeers, unfounded accusations and bullying tactics.
Yes, we do dispute that fact...emphatically in fact. We have said it MUTIPLE TIMES. You alone seem to be the only one who does not get this concept since you alone keep bring this up. I mean your other points has support and possibly merit...but this one thing you keep getting stuck on has no support...in reality, in society, in community...it's JUST YOU. Yes, sometimes it's the world that is wrong and you could be the lone correct voice...but more likely, when everyone says you are wrong, you are wrong.
I can accept the fact that you do not wish to see this as an issue. But I know that I do. I am aware that others think this too. Just because you do not want to accept the facts does not in any way lessen those facts.
Where are these others? Because I don't think anyone agrees with you in this thread. In fact we have quite a few who are basically going WTF at you over what you said. So...yeah, going with a vague there are others...that is your intelligent logical debate at work?!? And the fact that YOU consider it an issue...well we aren't even gonna attempt to fix what is in your head...but guess what, you can't have your own FACTS.
If you are saying that the only way to play the game is to min/max every aspect of the game then the game is designed wrong, because not every player is a min/maxer.
This x100. And I'm of the belief that the sheer majority of players are NOT min/max players. There's an elite minority who are and who try and drive the direction of games, in fact.
As to the addition of more content- I don't believe there's a "malicious conspiracy" to not group and do queues etc, but I do always believe that adding more content for the individual is always a good thing. Sure it's an MMO- but very rarely do you see large groups of people able to coordinate schedules and so forth in order to achieve goals.
That said, as far as the individual "end game" player, there's a lack of non-repetitive content for people to engage in- the only caveat here is Foundry missions but even those are "hit and miss". This isn't inherent to STO, however- it happens in almost every MMO out there, because devs can only develop so quickly as the players rush through the content. (some rather purposefully, because they hate "grinding")
Sometimes I really feel for MMO devs because it's akin to herding cats...
Okay...so I'll ask you this...who's a min/maxer? Am I one because I know how to make a 150+k boat? Despite the fact that I don't actually have one of those...although I could make one, I do have the resources for it. Is anyone who can solo a borg red alert one? Because if so, the whole majority kinda goes out the window since the vast majority of people I see in red alerts can solo them. Are you a min/maxer if you can capture a BZ point by yourself? If so, then...yeah definately the whole majority thing goes out since I don't think I have yet to see anyone in a BZ who couldn't do that. Or is a min/maxer just somebody you don't like because they are better at the game then you? I'm gonna say it's probably the last one. Now there are DPS chasers...who ARE the minority...but if you actually don't care how the game works or how to improve yourself in the game to the best resources you have (that includes your time), then can you truely be said to be playing the game? Do you honestly have a right to complain on how the game is progressing if you are so unwilling to put in your own effort? Or have so little understanding of how it all even works? Min/maxing is a term that means minimize weakness and maximize strengths. You should be doing this in ANY game if you want to get good at it. Min/maxing is not a bad term...or it's not suppose to be...but you all keep using it to mean somebody you don't like because they are better then you...and how is being better then you at a game suppose to be a BAD thing anyways?!? I'm baffled by people these days.
As far as not group up...people have learned that red alerts, tau dewa patrols and delta patrols along with battle zones gives out WAY better reward for effort then hoping that your PUG doesn't suck. The only real exception to this is CCA. Even ISA doesn't pop all the time anymore. Instead of making single player versions, they should just let you do the mission solo if you want to. I mean those DPS chasers I am sure would LOVE to do some of these things along to show off their e-peen. I sure as hell wouldn't mind running some of the queues I like alone if i couldn't be bothered to collect some souls...or start em with just a couple fleeties who quickly join...but change it for single player...yeah...not really sold on that. Like others have said, it feels more like give me give me give me all now.
And herding cats is easy compared to what the devs have to deal with from this bunch of yahoos.
To answer your question about min/maxing, here's my take on what that is.
Min/Maxer's, for whatever personal reason, work towards the goal of minimizing their failure rate by maximizing their numbers that's leads to that success. How a person does that in a game is controlled by that games mechanics, so they go about figuring out all of the formulas necessary to complete that goal. How they do it is only relevant to that particular game. The fact that they put so much time and effort into this results in the fun they have is not an issue with me. Expecting me to be this same way
is.
Personally, my fun in a game is taking what I do have and seeing what I can achieve, conquer, overcome and accomplish with out having to know the "numbers" or doing the best way possible. But then, I don't expect everyone to play in this same way. A lot of min/maxer's that I have encountered have that opposite opinion, and general take overly aggressive, derogatory and bullying methods to try and force it upon others. And those people ruin it for the rest that are not that way.
Running a BZ is min/maxing. Nor being able to do the most DPS min/maxing. It's the thought process behind the choices you make and why you make them that is min/maxing. Ultimately, as long as everyone is having fun and not infringing on others ability to have fun is what a game should be about. And a game that can accommodate the broadest base of players and their playstyles will make a game more successful than not. Because they will then be able to appeal to greatest number of people to spend money on the game and keep spending that money. Because there is always something for them to want.
I hope that is useful to you. And don't try to argue the points please. This is just the way I see things and feel no need to defend nor discuss these points. They are only expressed here because you asked otherwise I would not have presented it.
Okay I can accept your view of min/maxing. Here is the thing however...this is a MMO. EVERYTHING somebody does will affect others...how much depends on the details...but your actions have influences on others. Even if it is a slight change in market prices. So your fun will be impacted by others and how they play. The perfect example of this is DR. The ramp up in difficulty happened because enough people made a complete joke of the PvE content that the devs were not getting the metrics they needed so they did a balance pass in the NPC. So yeah, while you may think that we can all play in our own little bubble and be fine, it just is not the case. If you want that, play a single player game. Seriously, you seem to continually think that a MMO is a single player game.
And just to be fair, those asshats who demands that you play their one true way all probably fit your definition of min/maxers, not all people who fit your definition of min/maxers will be those asshats. So you don't have a problem with min/maxers...you have a problem with asshats (specifically the one true way people...yes there is a term for the type of player you just described).
And how is the BZ min/maxing? If you are going to restrict play to anyone who can't do DPS or play like you do, then you are being a one true way player yourself. You need to learn to play with ALL types of players...be it people who can't even do 1k DPS or those who can do 200k DPS. This is a MMO, learn to share.
I referred to min/maxing in the sense of playstyles, as I was trying to highlight the fact that there is need to include more than one playstyle. Actions influencing another person is not really the issue, some one actions removing another persons ability to either do or enjoy the content is. I do not think an MMO is a single player playing the game, but solo content is just one of many options of content that can be in an MMO. STO does have it in the leveling process, and that content also allows for you to group up and play the same content. That model I think can be added to the queues to allow for end game content too.
As for those you call "one True Way people", they are quite annoying and do interfere with people having fun in the game. But I do like to point out that I referred to min/maxers only in the fact I wanted to point out that I was not one who played that way and that the styles of play need to be expanded from beyond that way. DPSers tend to be min/maxers, but not all of them, and it was the easiest and most recognizable playstyle that I know of that would server to make my point.
Any content can be min/maxed. When the most efficient means of gain a particular reward is through certain content that is part of min/maxing. For BG/BZ, the example can be made for the Dinos where tagging, doing enough damage to be get the reward and then running off to the next Dino to do the same thing before the first is dead is just one example of min/maxing the reward system and not "playing the game". I am not upset that people do this, nor am I saying that they are playing it all wrong. Only that if not everyone is doing this and the dinos are killed before those players that kill Dino move to next dino don't get to next Dino, because others have killed it already, are loosing out on those rewards. Which is what I was saying from the start, that other players can and do make you loose out on rewards in the BG/BZ's. And for BG/BZ's to be truly considered solo content then other players would not have the ability to do that to you and then you could put as much or little effort you wanted on collecting all the rewards the zone provides. BG/BZ's are not solo content, and even though you don't have to group for the content, the players as a whole affect the outcome of the effort and the rewards you personally get.
People just keep jumping to points I am not making and driving over the statements that I am making....
Since they added the task where you can convert marks to their respective elite marks, you should be able to get things accomplished by just amassing marks.
Ah, thanks. I forgot about that. Wasn't the conversion rate really crappy though?
You get more from playing advanced queues that much is certain, but any reward in marks for the Featured episodes are not meant as a replacement for the queues rather to encourage replaying the FE once the gear has been obtained.
I could imagine elite marks as rewards for playing the (former) featured episode on advanced or elite difficulty, but that would require the introduction of a (currently unavailable) system for difficulty based rewards for missions/episodes.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Since they added the task where you can convert marks to their respective elite marks, you should be able to get things accomplished by just amassing marks.
Ah, thanks. I forgot about that. Wasn't the conversion rate really crappy though?
Comments
I do recall people in this thread saying allowing them to run the group content solo-able or to create solo content that rewards appropriately for the effort.
As for tagging all the planet killers, I was pointing out how people loose out on rewards do to the action of others. SO unless you wish to dispute the facts, please do not respond with jeers, unfounded accusations and bullying tactics.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
This x100. And I'm of the belief that the sheer majority of players are NOT min/max players. There's an elite minority who are and who try and drive the direction of games, in fact.
As to the addition of more content- I don't believe there's a "malicious conspiracy" to not group and do queues etc, but I do always believe that adding more content for the individual is always a good thing. Sure it's an MMO- but very rarely do you see large groups of people able to coordinate schedules and so forth in order to achieve goals.
That said, as far as the individual "end game" player, there's a lack of non-repetitive content for people to engage in- the only caveat here is Foundry missions but even those are "hit and miss". This isn't inherent to STO, however- it happens in almost every MMO out there, because devs can only develop so quickly as the players rush through the content. (some rather purposefully, because they hate "grinding")
Sometimes I really feel for MMO devs because it's akin to herding cats...
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I tend to stay around the dead corpse because inevitably if I try to run to another that is killed before I get there and I get nothing because I am not in a Dino area.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You sure seem to make a lot of generalized assumptions about me in particular, considering you don't know me. I don't believe I addressed you- nor did I explicitly detail what I meant by "min/maxing" in the first place.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
A bit of variation and the community has a reason to replay the FE once they have acquired the gear they offer.
Communication is much better without the mocking. Communication can be meaningful with out hurting someone's feelings while doing it. If you can't communicate without mocking, jeering or any other form of hurtful interaction is not meaningful in an intellectual level and only serve to create an emotional reaction. So to me, mocking has no usefulness in a logical discussion and is not a necessary way to drive home a point. In fact, mocking to me is nothing more than a form of bullying, like I said. Because mocking is only used to illicit an emotional response. Emotional responses, while may happen, should not be how you sway an argument to your viewpoint. It should only be my logical discourse. The speakers can be emotional and passionate about what they are saying, but mocking is not needed to convey those emotional ties.
So if you want to continue discussing anything with others, just remember that to some others. mocking will not be received well and will most likely be counter productive to making your point, maybe even going so far as proving to them the lack of intelligent thought you have actually applied to the discussion. And then your points will be either discounted, or even worse used as proof as to fact that your not able to logically respond to the discussion so you have no possible real, intelligent defense of your position.
SO that is my point with you, your mocking does you no service, unless you wish to be taking as a Neanderthal whose only capable response to the discussion is to belittle, denigrate or otherwise dishonor the true topic and the people discussing it.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
I can accept the fact that you do not wish to see this as an issue. But I know that I do. I am aware that others think this too. Just because you do not want to accept the facts does not in any way lessen those facts.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
To answer your question about min/maxing, here's my take on what that is.
Min/Maxer's, for whatever personal reason, work towards the goal of minimizing their failure rate by maximizing their numbers that's leads to that success. How a person does that in a game is controlled by that games mechanics, so they go about figuring out all of the formulas necessary to complete that goal. How they do it is only relevant to that particular game. The fact that they put so much time and effort into this results in the fun they have is not an issue with me. Expecting me to be this same way
is.
Personally, my fun in a game is taking what I do have and seeing what I can achieve, conquer, overcome and accomplish with out having to know the "numbers" or doing the best way possible. But then, I don't expect everyone to play in this same way. A lot of min/maxer's that I have encountered have that opposite opinion, and general take overly aggressive, derogatory and bullying methods to try and force it upon others. And those people ruin it for the rest that are not that way.
Running a BZ is min/maxing. Nor being able to do the most DPS min/maxing. It's the thought process behind the choices you make and why you make them that is min/maxing. Ultimately, as long as everyone is having fun and not infringing on others ability to have fun is what a game should be about. And a game that can accommodate the broadest base of players and their playstyles will make a game more successful than not. Because they will then be able to appeal to greatest number of people to spend money on the game and keep spending that money. Because there is always something for them to want.
I hope that is useful to you. And don't try to argue the points please. This is just the way I see things and feel no need to defend nor discuss these points. They are only expressed here because you asked otherwise I would not have presented it.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
Since they added the task where you can convert marks to their respective elite marks, you should be able to get things accomplished by just amassing marks.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
The only issue to me would be making sure the marks reward is low enough so as to not make it better than running Queue's. Maybe also making them as a one of the rewards to choose might help with that, so that you have to decide do you get the gear or the marks.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
If you live by the fact that mocking is the only way to interact, then I feel sorry for you. For your outlook on life is to negative to allow interaction with people that may have such a wonderful way at looking at things because they wear their heart on their sleeves. You do disservice to yourself, others and humans as a whole.
As for my responses, I see that you are unable or unwilling to accept actual logic from me. That is your loss and not my problem.
And I will remain to my point of what mocking is, and your continued presentation of yourself will always therefore color my view of you.
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
So in other words...,
"I'm always going to be mean and pissy because I can and I like doing it, so TRIBBLE you and the horse you rode in on too."
Quite the quality-of-life sensibility you have there... do you treat your loved ones that way also?
<smh>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I referred to min/maxing in the sense of playstyles, as I was trying to highlight the fact that there is need to include more than one playstyle. Actions influencing another person is not really the issue, some one actions removing another persons ability to either do or enjoy the content is. I do not think an MMO is a single player playing the game, but solo content is just one of many options of content that can be in an MMO. STO does have it in the leveling process, and that content also allows for you to group up and play the same content. That model I think can be added to the queues to allow for end game content too.
As for those you call "one True Way people", they are quite annoying and do interfere with people having fun in the game. But I do like to point out that I referred to min/maxers only in the fact I wanted to point out that I was not one who played that way and that the styles of play need to be expanded from beyond that way. DPSers tend to be min/maxers, but not all of them, and it was the easiest and most recognizable playstyle that I know of that would server to make my point.
Any content can be min/maxed. When the most efficient means of gain a particular reward is through certain content that is part of min/maxing. For BG/BZ, the example can be made for the Dinos where tagging, doing enough damage to be get the reward and then running off to the next Dino to do the same thing before the first is dead is just one example of min/maxing the reward system and not "playing the game". I am not upset that people do this, nor am I saying that they are playing it all wrong. Only that if not everyone is doing this and the dinos are killed before those players that kill Dino move to next dino don't get to next Dino, because others have killed it already, are loosing out on those rewards. Which is what I was saying from the start, that other players can and do make you loose out on rewards in the BG/BZ's. And for BG/BZ's to be truly considered solo content then other players would not have the ability to do that to you and then you could put as much or little effort you wanted on collecting all the rewards the zone provides. BG/BZ's are not solo content, and even though you don't have to group for the content, the players as a whole affect the outcome of the effort and the rewards you personally get.
People just keep jumping to points I am not making and driving over the statements that I am making....
KDF: Dahar Master Kan (Borg Klingon Tactical)::Dahar Master Torc (Alien Science)::Dahar Master Sisteric (Gorn Engineer)
RR-Fed: Citizen Sirroc (Romulan Science)::Fleet Admiral Grell (Alien Engineer)
RR-KDF: Fleet Admiral Zemo (Reman Tactical)::Fleet Admiral Xinatek (Reman Science)::Fleet Admiral Bel (Alien Engineer)
TOS-Fed: Fleet Admiral Katem (Andorian Tactical)::Lieutenant Commander Straad (Vulcan Engineer)
Dom-Fed: Dan'Tar (Jem'Hadar Science)
Dom-KDF: Kamtana'Solan (Jem'Hadar Science)
CoHost of Tribbles in Ecstasy (Zombee)
You get more from playing advanced queues that much is certain, but any reward in marks for the Featured episodes are not meant as a replacement for the queues rather to encourage replaying the FE once the gear has been obtained.
I could imagine elite marks as rewards for playing the (former) featured episode on advanced or elite difficulty, but that would require the introduction of a (currently unavailable) system for difficulty based rewards for missions/episodes.
One per day. Well beyond crappy.