All defensive skills have huge diminishing returns because of Engineering being nerfed years, and years ago due to it being "too strong" in PVP (This was pre-F2P so my knowledge of this is non-existent). Anyone saying to stack up on Resistances doesn't seem to understand that tankiness is directly related to max hull / shields / how many of those broken invincibility moves you've got.
People mentioning Tanking CCA's Blast. The mechanics behind that are asinine and completely random. I've had it deal over 100K to me through RSP, the Iconian Shield Generator and the Kobali 4pc reactionary heal.
This was with Council of Thought.
The same goes for Ground. I've got over 1k HP in on the ground / 120 resists and that doesn't stop me from being instanuked in some of the Advanced Maps. Could not even put BHA with full Mk XIV gear (Ico set).
I thought that, where the CCA 'blast' is concerned, that the blast's power varied depending on how much damage the entity took during it's 'recharge' phase (i.e lots of people shooting at it = powerful blast, no-one shooting at it = mediocre blast).
That sounds vaguely familiar. If so then people saying that they can tank CCA isn't an accurate descriptor of anything.
It is frustrating though that a lot of players don't realise that science is amazing the moment. They've been buffed in recent months. Meaning that a 10k DPS tac could annihilate anything in his path with a sci there to throw debuffs around. Problem is no one wants to be that sci captain, no one wants to be the tank that pulls all the aggro to let the team do the mission properly and easily, why? Because the attitude now is "if you haven't got the DPS, don't bother queuing up!"
And that's just sad. Teamwork has always been way more op than any amount of DPS but everyone wants to solo everything for bragging rights.
You don't get out much, do you? I run with a group called the Aggronauts, and Tan'Kia (a sci DPS/debuff/heal) and I cruise through HSE with them for the challenge because ISA is just so damn boring these days. Boring because there's no team cohesion needed for all but the most extreme cases of DPS crowning, and boring because the challenge is gone. Meanwhile, HSE offers us a challenge where we can test a wider variety of "trinity" builds and see which combo's make us the most effective. Ultimately, it'll end up being an "ISA for teams", but that hasn't caught on...yet.
@odenknight in game. Still awaiting the run with you based on the conditions you outlined here.
It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"
I have to agree.
I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.
The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
I have always found the "dps community" hostile, belittling, and of no general use to other players whatsoever.
^ that is also my experience with pretty much ALL DPS'ers. Its to the point now where no one will even play with you if you are below a certain amount. So basically all new players and people that don't pay real money for DPS have to fend for themselves which just destroys the community aspect of this game.
I've basically stopped caring, and do my best with what I get. I play this game to have fun. And if my DPS is too low for someone, then I will enjoy the hissyfit they have over it lol
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
If I could +1 this post I would make a new account each day and +1 it for the life of STO
It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"
I have to agree.
I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.
The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
I have always found the "dps community" hostile, belittling, and of no general use to other players whatsoever.
^ that is also my experience with pretty much ALL DPS'ers. Its to the point now where no one will even play with you if you are below a certain amount. So basically all new players and people that don't pay real money for DPS have to fend for themselves which just destroys the community aspect of this game.
I've basically stopped caring, and do my best with what I get. I play this game to have fun. And if my DPS is too low for someone, then I will enjoy the hissyfit they have over it lol
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
Very well spoken Sir. You have said it better then I could have. Much truth in what was said :-)
ive got a 35-30k dps faeht. and there's a reason for that...I started buffing my plasma lance. since I was already running a plasma build, this meant my whole build benefits from anything I do to that weapon....I always tell people I'm not after uberdps build. I want to survive as well. ill take longer in an stf if it means I don't have to start at a respawn timer at all.
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
If I could +1 this post I would make a new account each day and +1 it for the life of STO
It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"
I have to agree.
I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.
The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
I have always found the "dps community" hostile, belittling, and of no general use to other players whatsoever.
^ that is also my experience with pretty much ALL DPS'ers. Its to the point now where no one will even play with you if you are below a certain amount. So basically all new players and people that don't pay real money for DPS have to fend for themselves which just destroys the community aspect of this game.
I've basically stopped caring, and do my best with what I get. I play this game to have fun. And if my DPS is too low for someone, then I will enjoy the hissyfit they have over it lol
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
I wish this forum allowed me to give you rep. Good post there.
This is one of the reasons why having high DPS is important:
This mission was a total failure. Why? Because the team lacked the DPS to do the required damage within the time limit.
I agree that sometimes people can be excessive and rude with how they treat people below them, especially in missions that were completed successfully, but a failed mission is a failed mission, and if it has a total team DPS requirement for successful completion, then having that total team DPS is a requirement, don't you think?
This is one of the reasons why having high DPS is important:
<img>
This mission was a total failure. Why? Because the team lacked the DPS to do the required damage within the time limit.
I agree that sometimes people can be excessive and rude with how they treat people below them, especially in missions that were completed successfully, but a failed mission is a failed mission, and if it has a total team DPS requirement for successful completion, then having that total team DPS is a requirement, don't you think?
This is not the player's fault. This is Cryptic's fault for not properly balancing gameplay, and rewarding people who have more +1 consoles (the term consoles is being used figuratively). The simple solution would be to remove Captain's Abilities and different tiers of Damage boosts to normalize damage output so that players can reach top DPS easier, while fixing other game breaking bugs like the current Kemocite mechanics.
My friend plays a Sci Oddy Support, and plays the game his way. He enjoys the game, and shouldn't be penalized if he doesn't do as much damage as someone in 50/75k.
I tried to explain what I thought was wrong with his ship last night and realized halfway through our talk that he shouldn't change anything as he's enjoying himself, and that's all that matters.
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"
I have to agree.
I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.
The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
I have always found the "dps community" hostile, belittling, and of no general use to other players whatsoever.
^ that is also my experience with pretty much ALL DPS'ers. Its to the point now where no one will even play with you if you are below a certain amount. So basically all new players and people that don't pay real money for DPS have to fend for themselves which just destroys the community aspect of this game.
I've basically stopped caring, and do my best with what I get. I play this game to have fun. And if my DPS is too low for someone, then I will enjoy the hissyfit they have over it lol
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
You said all that I wish I could say but would be flamed to hell if I did.
Reading through this thread and I see some good points to both sides. I have to say though, my experiences have been about 45% positive and 55% negative when dealing with the DPS community. I've met some cool folks in the DPS community and some people I wish I could throw out the airlock. This is true in real life however, there's your cool folks and then your jerks. I myself like to tank because that's traditionally what I do in other mmos. As such I don't build my ships for pure numbers. Personally I can't stand the thought of not having a decent amount of survival abilities on a ship. I plan my ships for survival first, then getting a decent amount of damage out of them after that. I've had people tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and stop short of calling me a milk cow, because I committed the unpardonable sin of daring to recommend someone look into a console that they in the uber DPS crowd thought was poo.
I also had one person get their underwear in a bunch because I told a guy that enjoyed mostly cannon builds to try running a Scimitar with the Thaleron Pulse. I shall only refer to this person as Agent X. Agent X proceeds for the next 20 minutes to "educate me" about how the Thaleron Pulse is poo and threatened to kick me out of the channel if I "gave bad advice again." As a tank I've been typically flying the Andromeda t6 because I like the Galaxy class line and that ship had the layout I liked. Before this my main ship was a Cardassian Galor. A guy was asking what were some ships people liked and I mentioned the Galor and Andromeda as I believe they provide a good balance of dps and survival. In fact my Galor was the first ship I broke 10k on. Enter another guy we'll call Agent Y. Agent Y then proceeds to say how the Galor and Andromeda are garbage ships and I'm a *insert your choice of 4 letter word here* for flying them. Agent Y then goes off on how they're terrible DPS ships and because they didn't have the layout he liked. Agent Y then proceeds to link all the golds on his ship and proceeds to rant about how my equipment will never be as good as his and because he's cleared missions "that I could only dream of clearing" how he knows more than me. Then there's the guy who said I was a moron for recommending a person use omni beams on their cruiser since they wanted to throw more firepower forward. Apparently this was because Agent Z his friend can pull over 100k and doesn't use them. Then enter Agent Z who with his friend then proceed to tell us how we're bad players for actually liking and using omni beams when they don't. Let's be honest here, every one of us has at least one story of someone who thinks they're hot stuff and is a walking Napoleon Complex. Point being with this 2nd paragraph, there are instances of elitism that come from the "uber dps" crowd of people just as there are any crowd. We're fooling ourselves if we think it doesn't happen.
My whole deal is this, no matter how good you are or think you are in game(s) there will always be someone, somewhere, that is better than you. No matter how well you plan a mission at some point in time there will always be that one thing that had a 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% chance of happening, that does in fact happen and screws you over. Too many people in gaming take it wayyyyy too seriously today. If someone wants to squeeze every last drop of damage out of their ship then cool. If you prefer to tank or heal then again that's cool. Not everyone is going to enjoy the game the same way you do, playing like you do, the same story lines you do, or even the same games you do, that's just a fact of life. To suggest that someone is somehow a moron for not flying the ship you like, or using the abilities you think people should use, or doesn't have all golds on their ship, is not only moronic but outright elitist. As long as you're meeting the objectives that need to be met, killing the things that need to be killed, saving the npcs that need to be saved, and so on, why do you care that Johnny 2x4 isn't doing things the way YOU think it should be done? As long as it gets done even if it's not as fast as you like, why does it matter? On the flip side of that if/when a situation comes up from someone not pulling their weight, you can address the issue without being a tool about it. There's nothing wrong with calling attention to something that is effecting the team but the line between elitism and calling attention to something can get blurred really quickly.
Just my issues with all of this anyways. I've met some good people in the uber dps crowd. I've also met some folks that as the saying goes "if they were on fire and I had a bottle of water that could put them out, I would drink it." As long as people are having fun and stuff gets done that's the point of the game.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"
I have to agree.
I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.
The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
I have always found the "dps community" hostile, belittling, and of no general use to other players whatsoever.
^ that is also my experience with pretty much ALL DPS'ers. Its to the point now where no one will even play with you if you are below a certain amount. So basically all new players and people that don't pay real money for DPS have to fend for themselves which just destroys the community aspect of this game.
I've basically stopped caring, and do my best with what I get. I play this game to have fun. And if my DPS is too low for someone, then I will enjoy the hissyfit they have over it lol
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
You said all that I wish I could say but would be flamed to hell if I did.
Speak softly (but w/ an angry-sounding New York accent ) and carry an armed High Yield Torpedo. It works for me.
PvP needs to return. Balance needs to return. We need people to fight for intelligent, balanced play for the whole game not just PvP or PvE.
Reason why PvPers had better skills is that their ships and builds could take on PvE without any issues, and pose a direct challenge to other players in a competitive environment. PvErs could take on PvE without issues as well, but they had no chance against other players.
Note how I spoke in a past tense: the time in which the word "skills" had a meaning is gone. People can do whatever they want to me: run after DPS, spend money and what not. Though if you really think the game's even sort of balanced in terms of mechanic, well you must be someone who plays extremely casual gaming because STO's got none of that anymore really.
I need to get to him. I can't just leave him out there alone. - Sometimes you've got to makes sacrifices, Lara. You can't save everyone. - I know about sacrifices. - No, you know about loss. Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you. - I can't choose to let him die, Roth.
This is one of the reasons why having high DPS is important:
As stated in that post the team needed to kill a target in a set time limit, so obviously the amount of damage done is going to be vital there. But if players an't reach that DPS margin it's not exactly their fault.
The game gives you very little explanation of how any of the mechanics of combat work so every newbie is literally in the dark until the stumble upon something that works or come to a fleet/forum that offers advice.
But the DPS crowd are not the real problem here, nor are the anti-DPS people. They are just two extremes within the many types of players in the game.
For what it's worth i've never had a bad experience with any DPS people, I don't even mind people posting a parse as it means I can be lazy and not have to check it myself with CLR. Most players who do that are only posting it for people to see how well they do, and i'd guess most people take it to mean well.
If you don't want to see that then turn off chat, this is a multiplayer game at the end of the day so people will post things you might not want to see.
As for CLR and the like, I find them useful tools to help improve my build. And they also let you assess the whole mission so you can see for yourself for example, that the Tac cube in ISA actually only does 3K DPS so is not actually that much of a threat!
The are a tool to help you pick apart your performance and improve.
As for CLR and the like, I find them useful tools to help improve my build. And they also let you assess the whole mission so you can see for yourself for example, that the Tac cube in ISA actually only does 3K DPS
That Tac Cube should play ISN, no wonder the Borg lose all the time!
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
On Topic:
Why not let everyone play the way they want? Some people like maxing DPS, some like maxing their Gravity Well pull radius, others made it their personal goal to make their ship look like a Star Destroyer, their char look like a Sith Lord and their BOffs like Stormtroopers, some people want to make their ships look as canon as possible. Some even do all of it.
I really don't understand all the hate. If you don't want to run into a certain type of player just play private queues. PuGs are free for all. You may run into a 100k DPS ship soloing that ISA, or run into an instance of four players below 3k and lose. If you don't like that, don't PuG!
Personally I like flying around my Vastam on my science captain kitted out with romulan beam arrays and spamming hyper plasmas along with my fighters.
It may not be epic 100k DPS, but it sure is fun when there are a couple of dozen torpedoes flying around that all home in on a single target.
My one complain is that targetable torpedoes are too slow and vulnerable and need a major rework.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
@odenknight in game. Still awaiting the run with you based on the conditions you outlined here.
Considering from my experience that dedicated PvPers who whine about PvE in STO forums are just all air, it is expected. But havent seen dedicated PvPers, not counting those who do hybrid PvE and PvP like yourself or the likes of corbin, in STO Forums prove they are Elite PvErs.
PvP needs to return. Balance needs to return. We need people to fight for intelligent, balanced play for the whole game not just PvP or PvE.
Reason why PvPers had better skills is that their ships and builds could take on PvE without any issues, and pose a direct challenge to other players in a competitive environment. PvErs could take on PvE without issues as well, but they had no chance against other players.
Note how I spoke in a past tense: the time in which the word "skills" had a meaning is gone. People can do whatever they want to me: run after DPS, spend money and what not. Though if you really think the game's even sort of balanced in terms of mechanic, well you must be someone who plays extremely casual gaming because STO's got none of that anymore really.
Prove this first. I want you to see your PvP builds with multiple neutroniums, who's damage purpose to vape 100k HPs, do something significant in PvE elite. Come with us at HSE.
Let us see if this one of your multiple posts in multiple threads that is all air and no show, all arrogance from a dedicated PvP who barely knows anything about elite PvE and spends mosts of their time PvPing in the forums.
@odenknight in game. Still awaiting the run with you based on the conditions you outlined here.
Considering from my experience that dedicated PvPers who whine about PvE in STO forums are just all air, it is expected. But havent seen dedicated PvPers, not counting those who do hybrid PvE and PvP like yourself or the likes of corbin, in STO Forums prove they are Elite PvErs.
PvP needs to return. Balance needs to return. We need people to fight for intelligent, balanced play for the whole game not just PvP or PvE.
Reason why PvPers had better skills is that their ships and builds could take on PvE without any issues, and pose a direct challenge to other players in a competitive environment. PvErs could take on PvE without issues as well, but they had no chance against other players.
Note how I spoke in a past tense: the time in which the word "skills" had a meaning is gone. People can do whatever they want to me: run after DPS, spend money and what not. Though if you really think the game's even sort of balanced in terms of mechanic, well you must be someone who plays extremely casual gaming because STO's got none of that anymore really.
Prove this first. I want you to see your PvP builds with multiple neutroniums, who's damage purpose to vape 100k HPs, do something significant in PvE elite. Come with us at HSE.
Let us see if this one of your multiple posts in multiple threads that is all air and no show, all arrogance from a dedicated PvP who barely knows anything about elite PvE and spends mosts of their time PvPing in the forums.
Go into the PVP Channel. You will find plenty of them. I can name several off of the top of my head and I haven't been in that neighborhood in several years.
Hell there was a time where I did Kerrat before all of this DR stuff and did moderately well as a Tank.
Go into the PVP Channel. You will find plenty of them. I can name several off of the top of my head and I haven't been in that neighborhood in several years.
Hell there was a time where I did Kerrat before all of this DR stuff and did moderately well as a Tank.
How can someone prove they are good at Elite Pve by going to PvP channel?
If I see your name at HSE table assuming you even contribute something in parse, since certain players still leech HSE who does nothing for the team, that is proof, but going to PvP channel to prove you can do elite PvE is irrelevant but another PvPers logic to inserting PvP in Pve conversation.
Besides the challenge is for arrogant PvP players who boasts and claim in STO forums but has nothing to back their claims, not some random PvP player.
Go into the PVP Channel. You will find plenty of them. I can name several off of the top of my head and I haven't been in that neighborhood in several years.
Hell there was a time where I did Kerrat before all of this DR stuff and did moderately well as a Tank.
How can someone prove they are good at Elite Pve by going to PvP channel?
If I see your name at HSE table assuming you even contribute something in parse, since certain players still leech HSE who does nothing for the team, that is proof, but going to PvP channel to prove you can do elite PvE is irrelevant but another PvPers logic to inserting PvP in Pve conversation.
Besides the challenge is for arrogant PvP players who boasts and claim in STO forums but has nothing to back their claims, not some random PvP player.
The hell would I bother doing HSE? The mission exists exclusively as an epeen stroker for coordinated teams and the rewards do not stack up against other queues. You've gotta understand that not every player bows to a specific way of playing, and there are many people who are very knowledgable about the game's mechanics but prefer to spend their time doing other things except battling for superiority. If you grab 4 other moderately coordinated people, you shouldn't have issues with any queue.
Some of us already "proved" ourselves, got kicked in the face a few times, kicked people in the face a few times and realized that battling for DPS wasn't for them because it relied on checking boxes rather than having good piloting skills (both are needed but the box checking is way more important at the higher end IMO).
The initial purpose of the Private STF channels was to gather good players who were known to be consistent and knowledgeable so that the harder missions (specifically IGE/CGE) would be easily cleared, not to epeen stroke. That got lost in translation some time ago.
You're creating an argument where there isn't one, making wild assumptions that only people who can do these missions are diehard PVEers, which isn't the case (and basically everyone here has stated this) while ignoring the real issues with this topic - that combat is broken because min-maxing promotes DPS obsessiveness that creates crazy levels of min-maxing to drive a contest over who can do the most damage in ISE (which isn't even a good descriptor of DPS, and was only used because out of the 3 popular space queues at the time it was the most consistent / quickest to run.)
This is hilarious, because I used to be the most jam dps down people's throats person until DR hit to the point where several communities banned me, including a fleet I had been with for several years.
Go into the PVP Channel. You will find plenty of them. I can name several off of the top of my head and I haven't been in that neighborhood in several years.
Hell there was a time where I did Kerrat before all of this DR stuff and did moderately well as a Tank.
How can someone prove they are good at Elite Pve by going to PvP channel?
If I see your name at HSE table assuming you even contribute something in parse, since certain players still leech HSE who does nothing for the team, that is proof, but going to PvP channel to prove you can do elite PvE is irrelevant but another PvPers logic to inserting PvP in Pve conversation.
Besides the challenge is for arrogant PvP players who boasts and claim in STO forums but has nothing to back their claims, not some random PvP player.
The hell would I bother doing HSE? The mission exists exclusively as an epeen stroker for coordinated teams and the rewards do not stack up against other queues. You've gotta understand that not every player bows to a specific way of playing, and there are many people who are very knowledgable about the game's mechanics but prefer to spend their time doing other things except battling for superiority. If you grab 4 other moderately coordinated people, you shouldn't have issues with any queue.
Some of us already "proved" ourselves, got kicked in the face a few times, kicked people in the face a few times and realized that battling for DPS wasn't for them because it relied on checking boxes rather than having good piloting skills (both are needed but the box checking is way more important at the higher end IMO).
The initial purpose of the Private STF channels was to gather good players who were known to be consistent and knowledgeable so that the harder missions (specifically IGE/CGE) would be easily cleared, not to epeen stroke. That got lost in translation some time ago.
You're creating an argument where there isn't one, making wild assumptions that only people who can do these missions are diehard PVEers, which isn't the case (and basically everyone here has stated this) while ignoring the real issues with this topic - that combat is broken because min-maxing promotes DPS obsessiveness that creates crazy levels of min-maxing to drive a contest over who can do the most damage in ISE (which isn't even a good descriptor of DPS, and was only used because out of the 3 popular space queues at the time it was the most consistent / quickest to run.)
This is hilarious, because I used to be the most jam dps down people's throats person until DR hit to the point where several communities banned me, including a fleet I had been with for several years.
This is honestly the most flagrant backpedal I've seen on these forums. Just sayin'.
This is one of the reasons why having high DPS is important:
This mission was a total failure. Why? Because the team lacked the DPS to do the required damage within the time limit.
I agree that sometimes people can be excessive and rude with how they treat people below them, especially in missions that were completed successfully, but a failed mission is a failed mission, and if it has a total team DPS requirement for successful completion, then having that total team DPS is a requirement, don't you think?
Isn't it Cryptics fault that it allows everyone to queue for maps they do not have gears or levels ? I don't know, but for this map I could queue one of my old lvl 50 bank toons with white Mk X weapons (twofinger FAW spammer boat)....and the funny thing...I wasn't the worst one in my team, and we still managed. It's also feautured on the top of the list so that makes people queue that.
Why blame the players? Cryptic made reps, people leveling up needs marks. So of course even undergeared people will queue, because it takes bloody 40 days to max the rep so they can actually get the gear and traits.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
You can hit 15k DPS with virtually any build or playstyle you want if you're willing to adjust, adapt, get appropriate gear, and make a few compromises.
Like I say, I hit 18k without traiting around my build and with every turnrate console in the game that I could get. 125 turn rate per second. I never take throttle off full. I didn't slot Pedal to the Metal.
One of my 50k builds is Tetryon-based, which people widely deride.
Now, yes, builds may require compromise. They may require expending effort and resources on upgrades. Maybe instead of trading dilithium for ZEN, you'd be better off upgrading a set of gear to Mk XIV purple first. Maybe you should get on NoP channel and get an invite to a higher ranked fleet starbase.
It is unfair if someone tries to tell you WHAT to play for DPS but it ISN'T unfair if other players expect you to put forth some effort into upgrading gear, compromising your build, or refining your build to hit a relatively low DPS benchmark. It isn't unfair if you're expected to not use torpedo abilities if you don't have torpedoes equipped. If you can comfortably break 10k DPS in a rainbow build (and this is very doable), I think people should leave you alone about it.
But if you're running around doing 4k DPS in Infected Space Elite, you need serious guidance. A tank can't function at numbers that low and there's no reason for a healer or crowd control to parse that low because you can heal or CC more effectively while ALSO breaking 10k.
Part of it is on Cryptic. I think the design could be improved in several ways to make sure that nobody sucks while making sure that players who invest effort still do better.
But "I don't care about DPS" is kind of disrespectful to your fellow players if we're talking about minimums and not records. And there is no alternative role that you can sacrifice DPS for in STO. It's not "I'm not DPS, I'm a tank."
You cannot be a tank without a DPS focus.
You cannot be a strong healer without a strong DPS focus as well. It's impossible to heal enough to make up for the extra damage people take if your damage is too low.
You cannot be effective crowd control without damage to back that up. It's impossible to maintain crowd control that does anything without also dealing damage; CC has diminishing returns.
DPS is always a part of what you bring in STO. It would be ludicrous to expect everyone to bring even 30k in a random PUG. But everyone really, honestly can bring 10k.
For the record @paxdawn, Corbin is not a PvPer. He is a sci pilot beam boat flying, neut sprd, Kemo and plasma doping min/maxer that has only started racking up wins after DR. He is not respected by the PvP community because he lets his ship do all the work. Whenever there's more than 1 klink in kerrat he is ganged up on and the Feds will sit and watch because he just isn't respected by anybody in the PvP community. Which is also why he has everyone on ignore and chat turned off in Ker'rat. Before DR he was not as "popular" (I use the term "popular" sarcastically) or as "good" (I use the term "good" as loosely as you could possibly imagine). Like everyone that relied too heavily on build, he got a lot of beatings in PvP before DR. Now however, with the acc3, FAW, Kemo and plasma explosions anyone can win a PvP match by playing space bar hero.
HSE parse proves if your or your team did DPS, did heals, or the healer healed himself or healed the team, had resistances or none, if tanked or not, proved indirectly if mobs hit you or less aka scramble senors/placete, and all other stats. To prove you are better in PvE as players in STO Forums is claiming. No Proof no recognition.
Parses are not exclusively DPS. It just so happens that you get the parse from the DPS table which only counts DPS. You are free to create your own parser to make a healing league, tanking league, or placate league if you want to.
Did anyone record the "top 5 PvErs vs the top 5 PvPers" match a while back?
Kinda proved the point on who has the most skill argument.
Doing what? PvE or PvP? Like I said to prove you are better in PvE, you must do PvE and beat players in PvE. Beating someone in PvP doesnt equate being better in PvE. If you beat someone in PvP, it only means you are better in PvP.
I still see no proof dedicated PvP players outmatch best PvE players in PvE. Only ego stroking like you and other PvP arrogant fragile egos players who probably spends more time answering in the forums than actually play the game. And you are ego stroking yourself again with your fragile ego with your PvP logic in a PvE discussion.
I go back to these quotes which you have seem to have forgotten:
Comments
That sounds vaguely familiar. If so then people saying that they can tank CCA isn't an accurate descriptor of anything.
You don't get out much, do you? I run with a group called the Aggronauts, and Tan'Kia (a sci DPS/debuff/heal) and I cruise through HSE with them for the challenge because ISA is just so damn boring these days. Boring because there's no team cohesion needed for all but the most extreme cases of DPS crowning, and boring because the challenge is gone. Meanwhile, HSE offers us a challenge where we can test a wider variety of "trinity" builds and see which combo's make us the most effective. Ultimately, it'll end up being an "ISA for teams", but that hasn't caught on...yet.
@odenknight in game. Still awaiting the run with you based on the conditions you outlined here.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Herein lies the problem; some people with bad attitudes and low self esteem were taught how to design a ship and DPS, then go off and DPS-shame others who don't "measure up". This alienates those who don't know how from those who do, and it can get very frustrating when you're trying to do better WHILE enjoying the game. This then breeds animosity to anyone who can do "high DPS" (it's all relative), and an us vs them feud happens. People think that you can either play for fun or play for DPS, but not both.
I can assure you that you can do both.
If you want to do both, go look in the Media Section of the forums, as there are several entities that can help you and others out.
As for those who are DPS-shamers AND anti-DPSers, cut it out. Neither attitude helps anyone. Striving to do better in a positive manner is NEVER bad, and conversely, taking constructive criticism is a form of learning.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
If I could +1 this post I would make a new account each day and +1 it for the life of STO
Well said
Very well spoken Sir. You have said it better then I could have. Much truth in what was said :-)
Seconded
I wish this forum allowed me to give you rep.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
This mission was a total failure. Why? Because the team lacked the DPS to do the required damage within the time limit.
I agree that sometimes people can be excessive and rude with how they treat people below them, especially in missions that were completed successfully, but a failed mission is a failed mission, and if it has a total team DPS requirement for successful completion, then having that total team DPS is a requirement, don't you think?
This is not the player's fault. This is Cryptic's fault for not properly balancing gameplay, and rewarding people who have more +1 consoles (the term consoles is being used figuratively). The simple solution would be to remove Captain's Abilities and different tiers of Damage boosts to normalize damage output so that players can reach top DPS easier, while fixing other game breaking bugs like the current Kemocite mechanics.
See this post I made in a separate topic
My friend plays a Sci Oddy Support, and plays the game his way. He enjoys the game, and shouldn't be penalized if he doesn't do as much damage as someone in 50/75k.
I tried to explain what I thought was wrong with his ship last night and realized halfway through our talk that he shouldn't change anything as he's enjoying himself, and that's all that matters.
Thank you.
You said all that I wish I could say but would be flamed to hell if I did.
I also had one person get their underwear in a bunch because I told a guy that enjoyed mostly cannon builds to try running a Scimitar with the Thaleron Pulse. I shall only refer to this person as Agent X. Agent X proceeds for the next 20 minutes to "educate me" about how the Thaleron Pulse is poo and threatened to kick me out of the channel if I "gave bad advice again." As a tank I've been typically flying the Andromeda t6 because I like the Galaxy class line and that ship had the layout I liked. Before this my main ship was a Cardassian Galor. A guy was asking what were some ships people liked and I mentioned the Galor and Andromeda as I believe they provide a good balance of dps and survival. In fact my Galor was the first ship I broke 10k on. Enter another guy we'll call Agent Y. Agent Y then proceeds to say how the Galor and Andromeda are garbage ships and I'm a *insert your choice of 4 letter word here* for flying them. Agent Y then goes off on how they're terrible DPS ships and because they didn't have the layout he liked. Agent Y then proceeds to link all the golds on his ship and proceeds to rant about how my equipment will never be as good as his and because he's cleared missions "that I could only dream of clearing" how he knows more than me. Then there's the guy who said I was a moron for recommending a person use omni beams on their cruiser since they wanted to throw more firepower forward. Apparently this was because Agent Z his friend can pull over 100k and doesn't use them. Then enter Agent Z who with his friend then proceed to tell us how we're bad players for actually liking and using omni beams when they don't. Let's be honest here, every one of us has at least one story of someone who thinks they're hot stuff and is a walking Napoleon Complex. Point being with this 2nd paragraph, there are instances of elitism that come from the "uber dps" crowd of people just as there are any crowd. We're fooling ourselves if we think it doesn't happen.
My whole deal is this, no matter how good you are or think you are in game(s) there will always be someone, somewhere, that is better than you. No matter how well you plan a mission at some point in time there will always be that one thing that had a 0.00000000000000000000000000000001% chance of happening, that does in fact happen and screws you over. Too many people in gaming take it wayyyyy too seriously today. If someone wants to squeeze every last drop of damage out of their ship then cool. If you prefer to tank or heal then again that's cool. Not everyone is going to enjoy the game the same way you do, playing like you do, the same story lines you do, or even the same games you do, that's just a fact of life. To suggest that someone is somehow a moron for not flying the ship you like, or using the abilities you think people should use, or doesn't have all golds on their ship, is not only moronic but outright elitist. As long as you're meeting the objectives that need to be met, killing the things that need to be killed, saving the npcs that need to be saved, and so on, why do you care that Johnny 2x4 isn't doing things the way YOU think it should be done? As long as it gets done even if it's not as fast as you like, why does it matter? On the flip side of that if/when a situation comes up from someone not pulling their weight, you can address the issue without being a tool about it. There's nothing wrong with calling attention to something that is effecting the team but the line between elitism and calling attention to something can get blurred really quickly.
Just my issues with all of this anyways. I've met some good people in the uber dps crowd. I've also met some folks that as the saying goes "if they were on fire and I had a bottle of water that could put them out, I would drink it." As long as people are having fun and stuff gets done that's the point of the game.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Speak softly (but w/ an angry-sounding New York accent
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Note how I spoke in a past tense: the time in which the word "skills" had a meaning is gone. People can do whatever they want to me: run after DPS, spend money and what not. Though if you really think the game's even sort of balanced in terms of mechanic, well you must be someone who plays extremely casual gaming because STO's got none of that anymore really.
As stated in that post the team needed to kill a target in a set time limit, so obviously the amount of damage done is going to be vital there. But if players an't reach that DPS margin it's not exactly their fault.
The game gives you very little explanation of how any of the mechanics of combat work so every newbie is literally in the dark until the stumble upon something that works or come to a fleet/forum that offers advice.
But the DPS crowd are not the real problem here, nor are the anti-DPS people. They are just two extremes within the many types of players in the game.
For what it's worth i've never had a bad experience with any DPS people, I don't even mind people posting a parse as it means I can be lazy and not have to check it myself with CLR. Most players who do that are only posting it for people to see how well they do, and i'd guess most people take it to mean well.
If you don't want to see that then turn off chat, this is a multiplayer game at the end of the day so people will post things you might not want to see.
As for CLR and the like, I find them useful tools to help improve my build. And they also let you assess the whole mission so you can see for yourself for example, that the Tac cube in ISA actually only does 3K DPS so is not actually that much of a threat!
The are a tool to help you pick apart your performance and improve.
That Tac Cube should play ISN, no wonder the Borg lose all the time!
(sorry, I couldn't resist)
On Topic:
Why not let everyone play the way they want? Some people like maxing DPS, some like maxing their Gravity Well pull radius, others made it their personal goal to make their ship look like a Star Destroyer, their char look like a Sith Lord and their BOffs like Stormtroopers, some people want to make their ships look as canon as possible. Some even do all of it.
I really don't understand all the hate. If you don't want to run into a certain type of player just play private queues. PuGs are free for all. You may run into a 100k DPS ship soloing that ISA, or run into an instance of four players below 3k and lose. If you don't like that, don't PuG!
It may not be epic 100k DPS, but it sure is fun when there are a couple of dozen torpedoes flying around that all home in on a single target.
My one complain is that targetable torpedoes are too slow and vulnerable and need a major rework.
Considering from my experience that dedicated PvPers who whine about PvE in STO forums are just all air, it is expected. But havent seen dedicated PvPers, not counting those who do hybrid PvE and PvP like yourself or the likes of corbin, in STO Forums prove they are Elite PvErs.
Prove this first. I want you to see your PvP builds with multiple neutroniums, who's damage purpose to vape 100k HPs, do something significant in PvE elite. Come with us at HSE.
Let us see if this one of your multiple posts in multiple threads that is all air and no show, all arrogance from a dedicated PvP who barely knows anything about elite PvE and spends mosts of their time PvPing in the forums.
Go into the PVP Channel. You will find plenty of them. I can name several off of the top of my head and I haven't been in that neighborhood in several years.
Hell there was a time where I did Kerrat before all of this DR stuff and did moderately well as a Tank.
How can someone prove they are good at Elite Pve by going to PvP channel?
If I see your name at HSE table assuming you even contribute something in parse, since certain players still leech HSE who does nothing for the team, that is proof, but going to PvP channel to prove you can do elite PvE is irrelevant but another PvPers logic to inserting PvP in Pve conversation.
Besides the challenge is for arrogant PvP players who boasts and claim in STO forums but has nothing to back their claims, not some random PvP player.
The hell would I bother doing HSE? The mission exists exclusively as an epeen stroker for coordinated teams and the rewards do not stack up against other queues. You've gotta understand that not every player bows to a specific way of playing, and there are many people who are very knowledgable about the game's mechanics but prefer to spend their time doing other things except battling for superiority. If you grab 4 other moderately coordinated people, you shouldn't have issues with any queue.
Some of us already "proved" ourselves, got kicked in the face a few times, kicked people in the face a few times and realized that battling for DPS wasn't for them because it relied on checking boxes rather than having good piloting skills (both are needed but the box checking is way more important at the higher end IMO).
The initial purpose of the Private STF channels was to gather good players who were known to be consistent and knowledgeable so that the harder missions (specifically IGE/CGE) would be easily cleared, not to epeen stroke. That got lost in translation some time ago.
You're creating an argument where there isn't one, making wild assumptions that only people who can do these missions are diehard PVEers, which isn't the case (and basically everyone here has stated this) while ignoring the real issues with this topic - that combat is broken because min-maxing promotes DPS obsessiveness that creates crazy levels of min-maxing to drive a contest over who can do the most damage in ISE (which isn't even a good descriptor of DPS, and was only used because out of the 3 popular space queues at the time it was the most consistent / quickest to run.)
This is hilarious, because I used to be the most jam dps down people's throats person until DR hit to the point where several communities banned me, including a fleet I had been with for several years.
This is honestly the most flagrant backpedal I've seen on these forums. Just sayin'.
Isn't it Cryptics fault that it allows everyone to queue for maps they do not have gears or levels ? I don't know, but for this map I could queue one of my old lvl 50 bank toons with white Mk X weapons (twofinger FAW spammer boat)....and the funny thing...I wasn't the worst one in my team, and we still managed. It's also feautured on the top of the list so that makes people queue that.
Why blame the players? Cryptic made reps, people leveling up needs marks. So of course even undergeared people will queue, because it takes bloody 40 days to max the rep so they can actually get the gear and traits.
Kinda proved the point on who has the most skill argument.
Like I say, I hit 18k without traiting around my build and with every turnrate console in the game that I could get. 125 turn rate per second. I never take throttle off full. I didn't slot Pedal to the Metal.
One of my 50k builds is Tetryon-based, which people widely deride.
Now, yes, builds may require compromise. They may require expending effort and resources on upgrades. Maybe instead of trading dilithium for ZEN, you'd be better off upgrading a set of gear to Mk XIV purple first. Maybe you should get on NoP channel and get an invite to a higher ranked fleet starbase.
It is unfair if someone tries to tell you WHAT to play for DPS but it ISN'T unfair if other players expect you to put forth some effort into upgrading gear, compromising your build, or refining your build to hit a relatively low DPS benchmark. It isn't unfair if you're expected to not use torpedo abilities if you don't have torpedoes equipped. If you can comfortably break 10k DPS in a rainbow build (and this is very doable), I think people should leave you alone about it.
But if you're running around doing 4k DPS in Infected Space Elite, you need serious guidance. A tank can't function at numbers that low and there's no reason for a healer or crowd control to parse that low because you can heal or CC more effectively while ALSO breaking 10k.
Part of it is on Cryptic. I think the design could be improved in several ways to make sure that nobody sucks while making sure that players who invest effort still do better.
But "I don't care about DPS" is kind of disrespectful to your fellow players if we're talking about minimums and not records. And there is no alternative role that you can sacrifice DPS for in STO. It's not "I'm not DPS, I'm a tank."
You cannot be a tank without a DPS focus.
You cannot be a strong healer without a strong DPS focus as well. It's impossible to heal enough to make up for the extra damage people take if your damage is too low.
You cannot be effective crowd control without damage to back that up. It's impossible to maintain crowd control that does anything without also dealing damage; CC has diminishing returns.
DPS is always a part of what you bring in STO. It would be ludicrous to expect everyone to bring even 30k in a random PUG. But everyone really, honestly can bring 10k.
Before DR he was not as "popular" (I use the term "popular" sarcastically) or as "good" (I use the term "good" as loosely as you could possibly imagine). Like everyone that relied too heavily on build, he got a lot of beatings in PvP before DR. Now however, with the acc3, FAW, Kemo and plasma explosions anyone can win a PvP match by playing space bar hero.
HSE parse proves if your or your team did DPS, did heals, or the healer healed himself or healed the team, had resistances or none, if tanked or not, proved indirectly if mobs hit you or less aka scramble senors/placete, and all other stats. To prove you are better in PvE as players in STO Forums is claiming. No Proof no recognition.
Parses are not exclusively DPS. It just so happens that you get the parse from the DPS table which only counts DPS. You are free to create your own parser to make a healing league, tanking league, or placate league if you want to.
Doing what? PvE or PvP? Like I said to prove you are better in PvE, you must do PvE and beat players in PvE. Beating someone in PvP doesnt equate being better in PvE. If you beat someone in PvP, it only means you are better in PvP.
I still see no proof dedicated PvP players outmatch best PvE players in PvE. Only ego stroking like you and other PvP arrogant fragile egos players who probably spends more time answering in the forums than actually play the game. And you are ego stroking yourself again with your fragile ego with your PvP logic in a PvE discussion.
I go back to these quotes which you have seem to have forgotten: