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DPS obsession

If u dun use a sc1m1t4r u iz nub. LZOIWZLLOL!!!1111

Seriously wtf happened to strategy in this game? I'm sick of parsers demonstrating their e-peen everywhere, even though all they do is frantically spam the spacebar button in ISA. The demand for a dps-oriented ships is still going, despite the annorax and the new consoles in the research lab.

Tacticals have especially an advantage on ground combat (both pve/pvp). I play all 3 classes, and I can wipe groups of critters in a matter of seconds, going around 1000 dps (to name a rough number). While my sci has low DPS (as expected), and my engineer mediocre. All 3 of them maxed out pretty much, and almost owning every kit in the game.

I'm not saying to nerf anything, because nerfing ffing sucks!!! Just give the engis and sci's a little more.


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Comments

  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    I have to be honest, I really don't understand the complaint here.

    The first line, about the Scimitar.. I don't get that. Not only have I never been insulted in game for my ship choice, I have never seen anyone called a newb or anything else because of their ship. Most people know you can't tell someones capability just from ship choice.

    The only instances that people ever parse is ISA. I have never seen anyone post a parse anywhere else. Worst case scenario is you run a public ISA and afterward someone pastes the parse into chat. If you don't care about the result, don't read it.

    I consider myself a somewhat 'reformed DPS'er' myself. I still put some emphasis on DPS so I can be helpful on a team, but have strayed away from chasing every last percentage in favor of more varied builds for fun and so every character wasn't the same. That being the case, I have never felt pressured to DPS, I don't really understand why anyone is upset if others wish to pursue that path.

    The best advice I can give is play the way you want to play, do what's fun for you. At the same time though, be sure you allow others to do the same. Everyone plays for different reason, just utilize the areas of the game that you find enjoyable.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • dalnar83dalnar83 Member Posts: 2,420 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    It's beating dead horse really. Everyone should play as he likes in a fashion he likes. If someone wants to be dps monster and care for every 0,0001% change in his parses, let him. It's his playtime afterall and it should be respected as long as he is respectful to others. And this should work both ways.

    Truth is, you do not need 100k dps to finish content, you can finish it with almost anything nowadays thanks to powercreep. You do not need all epic gear or some flavour of the month build with most expensive stuff to enjoy gameplay and missions. But yes, some of the members of cult dps are slightly irritating.

    I personally use builds that I consider Star Trekish and roughly canonical and It doesn't bother me much that I won't reach the highest places in dps meters, as long as I'm not the worst member of my team. :)

    But oh well, to each his own.
    "Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
  • chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    I don't worry what the DPSer's think. I run my Vesta as DoT, something I think the elitists on this game have never heard of. I don't have a DSP build so it's pretty much lock down the fort til my Fleet mates show up.
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  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,364 Arc User
    I've never owned a Scimitar. And I am most definitely not a n00b. Man, I really hate that word! I view it as being just like that other N-word. Because it is just as disrespectful and belittling towards another human being.

    I've also never bothered with DPS much. Not felt the need to. Some people do because this is how they enjoy playing the game. Why should I be upset over their choices? Makes no sense. I have just four chars. Only one of them is a TAC and he is probably the one I play the least. My Rom ENG is probably the one I spend the most time on. Because ENGs get all those really cool toys whenever they are doing Ground stuff. My Delta Retread is a Fed SCI who I've only recently brought up to lvl 60. He too has a lot of cool toys to play with on the Ground.

    Lots of people have offered advice and suggestions over the years about how to improve my DPS on both these chars. I smile and nod and say thank you and then continue to do things the way I want to. When they then get upset about my not immeditely giving in to their demands and start complaining, I place them on Ignore.

    I play this game for my entertainment, not someone else's. I cannot see any good reason to do it any other way.
    Nope. It ain't Discovery. It ain't Picard. It's not SNW, either.
    It's your obsessive-compulsive belief that you are the only 'real' Star Trek fan around here.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    With Delta Rising DPS in PvE was transformed form a luxury to a necessity in my opinion because on each occasion I entered a map some background-timers were already ticking. The moment you enter a stage where you have to remove x number of critters with x hit points DPS will decide over success or failure. And even if it’s not about direct failure it’s always about time because the in-game demands easily have doubled with Delta Rising (think multiplied by 10 even if you want top gear and maxed out skills) as well. DPS is simply a tool which helps you to progress faster in the limited timeframe you have to play.

    Instead of seeing it as competition magnitude with others I rather see it as a way to help, me as well as others. I use it to bring me into a position where I can play undisrupted with players of all standings. That includes especially new or inexperienced ones. What they lack in DPS I can simply bring for them. It’s not to brag but to simply ensure a successful gaming experience. What I gain in knowledge I can more easily pass onto others that way because they can see and witness the results.

    Oh and I never want to be in a position again where have to decide whom to pick for a specific contend or who is to be left behind because he is not good enough (it does not work on all maps but on many by now).

    As far as your criticism about the lack of strategic aspects is concerned I agree partially. You are correct that with un-appropriate high team DPS most of the contend gets absurd. Yet there is no reason at all to run this game in such a fashion. On quiet a few maps the strategic aspects begin to surface rather fast for me the moment I and perhaps one or two friends need to carry an entire match because the rest of the players simply can’t handle.

    I think DRSE/VCE/BOSE are fine example for contend where strategy in combination with single player DPS have found a cool mix.
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    I see the DPS "obsession" critical, too, but there are some assumptions that I don't agree with:

    Assumption 1) It's all Spacebar Spam.
    No, it's not. If you look at some of the videos from top DPSers, you will see it's also very careful positioning. This is in essence what falls under "strategy". Just spamming your space bar will not ensure that you hit the optimum amount of targets without attacking targets that you better don't attack.

    Assumption 2) You don't need that DPS.
    This is subjective, but - if you want to complete STFs the fastest way possible to earn the all kinds of rewards at the maximum pace possible, then DPS is quite important.


    The latter is particularly bad however for the game - because it means even if there are viable non-DPS builds that can ensure that you win every instance you care to join, it doesn't matter if you can't also do it the fastest.

    I think the fundamental error here is the concept of DPS classes or roles in the first place. Unless you can carefully manage your content difficulty so that all roles are needed to complete a mission, going with DPS means getting the rewards the quickest, and so any other role is bad. So either your missions demand the "holy trinity", or every class must be for DPS (both ship and character class) ,and the differentiation in class are other play-style aspects. For example, maybe every class has a different damage mitigiation - escorts by maneuvering and positioning, cruisers by healing, science vessels by crowd control, or something like that.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    I personally measure my own DPS in ISA just to see if changes I made in my build contributed positively or negatively to my overall ship performance. I also look at numbers other than DPS (damage-in, hits-in and heal-out for example).

    I tend to build my ships towards what I think is fun rather than total min-maxing. I don't fly a Scimi or any of the high-powered ships (I focus on Science ships) but at least I can safely say in terms of DPS, I am above average.
  • shanker666shanker666 Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    I've posted on other threads about this subject and I'll post again here:Don't blame the dps'ers,blame PWE/Cryptic. They are the ones who made enemies nearly unkillable in certain instances. Hate to say it,but 2k dps doesn't cut it in an advanced/elite queue. Since the complete dumbing down of advanced queues(no more auto-fail) I try to stay away from public queues.

    And yes,some of the dps people are a bit arrogant about their parses,just look at them and move on and do your thing. We all have different ways to enjoy the game but since the game has been turned into a dps fest, adjust and keep playing and having fun. If you don't like the parsing,my advice is stay away from advanced/elite stuff because that's gonna keep happening,as long as this company keeps making the enemies so stupidly hard to kill.

    Enjoy the game your way and I say "good for you" but let me enjoy the game my way also,which is successfully completing the hardest endgame content and to do that I have to have a certain amount of damage going out.
    Again,not my fault,just the way it is and as long as the dps keeps selling,that's what we're all gonna get,whether we like it or not.

    I would also like to see some balance restored to the game but I don't see it happening at this point in time so I just keep on playing and adjusting my tactics to compensate. Good luck to all!
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,738 Arc User
    I just stubbed my toe! Thanks dpsers!
    Tza0PEl.png
  • smokeybacon90smokeybacon90 Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"... get over yourself OP.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"

    I have to agree.

    I have always found the DPS community helpful and welcoming. When I was new and had no idea what I was doing, the DPS community helped me learn how to use powers and skill effectively. Contrary to what some think, there was never any discouragement of variety or criticism for 'non optimal' choices.

    The DPS community is perfectly happy offering advice to help players work inside the structure of their own specific needs. It's not all about chasing every last percent possible. The people that paint the DPS community as a group of exclusionary min/maxers are the people that have never interacted with that community. It's a false perception.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • banatinebanatine Member Posts: 250 Arc User
    I'm in two minds on DPS.

    If all you play is solo, then yeah. Build what you want, fly how you want. Nobody cares.

    However, when you join any team mission, you are responsible for contributing to the team. If you are Khotomer Vortex and you can't kill probes before they reach the gate, or Undine infiltration elite be don't know the answers to the questions, then i would advise you to practice more on the lower levels until you are ready.

    If you are in any event where one person can be responsible for instant defeat, it's your duty to NOT be that guy, and when you are that guy, to learn and do better next time.
    Real Temporal Operative: Purchased the Special Temporal Agent pack before it was even officially announced!
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,961 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    nikephorus wrote: »
    I just stubbed my toe! Thanks dpsers!
    Ah, I remember the times fondly when everything was blamed on the PvPers! But now even that honor has been taken away from them.

    I guess people just can't function without putting everyone in a certain box and defining one of these boxes (a box not containing them) as the root of all evil.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    Ow. This time of year again.

    It really is quite simple. If you don't like to play in a DPS-oriented way, then don't. Of my 9 chars, 7 are endgame worthy, and only 1 is DPS orientated. The rest are either tanks (carrier or otherwise) or destroyers build for the taking-in-damage-as-well. And that 1 char that is DPS-orientated, was originally gonna be a regular destroyer captain. It was that I was handed a challenge by a friend for 50k, just to see if I could, that got me like ah, we'll just try one char, but in my way.

    Avoiding people that are gonna force you into DPS'ing is quite simple. Don't play from DPS channels, don't be a part of fleets that are DPS-oriented, and don't get upset if you PUG and nobody is found to be DPS'ing. Just ignore people that are not so nice to you, and carry on.

    But one thing is sure, creating an incoherent rant on the forums is definitely not gonna reach your target audience.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    You know what...?

    If you're talking about people looking to set records, I'd get that. And that can be fun and appealing.

    But healing is a nice but unnecessary thing and doing it doesn't require sacrificing respectable damage numbers. And you're not going to tank unless you can hit 10k.

    So here's a blunt question:

    What do you want to offer your team?

    Because whatever that is, bringing some meaningful DPS is important to that. Not saying 100 or 150k. I'm not even saying 30k or 20k.

    But without 10k or close to it, you are likely getting your teammates killed and costing the team optionals, especially on Advanced.

    To be straightforward with you, most of the time, if I blow up, at least one teammate isn't doing much damage. They don't hold aggro. They didn't heal me... and they wouldn't need to if we were killing things faster.

    The best defense is a good offense in STO. And this ship or that ship may not be optimal. No Fed ship is perfectly optimal. But there is a floor where, below that, optionals fail and your teammates die. And there are specific things you can do that are worse for your team than if they tried to run an encounter short one person.
  • leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    chiyoumiku wrote: »
    I don't worry what the DPSer's think. I run my Vesta as DoT, something I think the elitists on this game have never heard of. I don't have a DSP build so it's pretty much lock down the fort til my Fleet mates show up.

    That sounds like a standard embassy console build.
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    I like to have high DPS on my characters ship builds. Am i obsessed by the numbers they generate. Not really, i'm more interested having a strong character capable of beating and winning the game.

    Lets not forget that unless Real Life money is spent to jump the time gates the game is a farming one. Dilithium/EC/Rep-Fleet Marks/R&D materials/Latinum/XP and any other Event goodies have to be farmed.
    So having a ship capable of blasting its way through the content to speed up the process is my aim and goals
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    shanker666 wrote: »
    I've posted on other threads about this subject and I'll post again here:Don't blame the dps'ers, blame PWE/Cryptic.

    Pretty much. It's like that guy getting roasted by people when he celebrated the fact that his Wells was decked out in all gold gear. He's just meeting his own goals within the confines of the game design.

    Seeing as the game is basically about shooting stuff you can't get upset over people who want to be really really good at shooting stuff. Especially considering there is little alternative at endgame.​​
  • gradiigradii Member Posts: 2,817 Arc User
    It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"... get over yourself OP.

    The OP is complaining about people who are jerks about dps, not about dps in general. I suggest you read carefully before insulting people who have legitimate complaints about the behavior of a rather loud and obnoxious group of players, even if they are a minority.

    "He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
    Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
    he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
    In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
    He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
    He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
    He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
    He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
  • comrademococomrademoco Member Posts: 1,691 Bug Hunter
    edited September 2015
    I posted this a while back hope you like.
    Too Much of Elitism
    
    
    To much of elitism,
    can bring you underground
    damage, can always turn around. 
    too much of elitism, a dps and crits hell bound.
    Damage, the killer makes no sound.
    
    they're still talking about parsing, 
    that's right and too much of parsing. 
    c'mon my friend.
    
    let me tell you what it's all about, 
    it's called damage dependence today, 
    and people just keep on going on 
    looking at the dps numbers, 
    and nothing else around them.
    no healing, no resistance, nothing else, 
    just the dps numbers coming on into their parsers,
    Into their ship layouts, 
    and that's too much of elitism 
    bringing them underground.
    let me tell you what it's all about, 
    it's called elitism dependence today, 
    and people just keep on going on 
    looking at the dps numbers, 
    and nothing else around them.
    no healing, no resistance, nothing else, 
    just the dps numbers coming on into their parsers, 
    into their ship layouts,
    
    the answer, 
    is blowing in the wind. 
    the answer is blowing.
    
    oh let me tell you what it's all about.
    too much of damage bring you underground.
    
    Music and Lyrics by @comrademoco. The 1st Fleet Records
    
    6tviTDx.png

  • sdkraustsdkraust Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    tremere12 wrote: »
    Tacticals have especially an advantage on ground combat (both pve/pvp). I play all 3 classes, and I can wipe groups of critters in a matter of seconds, going around 1000 dps (to name a rough number). While my sci has low DPS (as expected), and my engineer mediocre. All 3 of them maxed out pretty much, and almost owning every kit in the game.

    Ground is way more balanced than space because of Universal Kit Modules.

    kmrXU.jpg

    Those Tac Parses are with Blue Quality Security Officer Doffs. See that Sci that can't even break 200DPS? Well I'm guessing that's a bit higher because their gear isn't maxed out.

    But look who is doing the most DPS - My ENG/Main. Not the Tacs. Why? Because the Ground combat rewards effort. That 900DPS, was the result of knowing the ground mechanics, but is really, really hard to reproduce. Usually average 500-700 DPS, but the Tacs are more consistently DPS'd.

    Don't compare ground to space. It's non-comparable.

    I looked you up on SCM and your Record Run - ~250DPS with Concussive Tachyon Emission. My 900 DPS parse is without Concussive (I cannot seem to parse higher if I slot it for some reason).

    Your Sci (480DPS) also does ~250DPS with Concussive, which puts them more in line with mine
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,693 Arc User
    I get what you mean OP. I think that people shouldn't be thinking of DPS as a measure of skill, be cause it just isn't. The skill in this game revolves around timing of abilities, maneuvering, placement etc. Anyone can google up a set-up, log-in, throw a few FAW's then claim it's skill.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    I get what you mean OP. I think that people shouldn't be thinking of DPS as a measure of skill, be cause it just isn't. The skill in this game revolves around timing of abilities, maneuvering, placement etc. Anyone can google up a set-up, log-in, throw a few FAW's then claim it's skill.

    DPS is a measure of skill, but just like all other measures of skill in life, it can be manipulated. There are CEO's out there who made millions, but still bankrupted their companies. I look at my dps and see how it improves or decreases, to see what I can do better.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    i use clr, only for me. when i parse in isa, i keep always the result for me. the results are used to improve my builds, not in a dps chase, but for being more efficient not only for me but also when i'm in a team.

    this tool is useful also when i want to know which skill is the best for a ship; for example crf or csv for the risian cruiser.

    i hate when players paste the parse in the team channel. most of the time, these guys don't play as a team, they want want dps, dps, dps.
  • captainpugwash1captainpugwash1 Member Posts: 908 Arc User

    gradii wrote: »
    It's an interest in improving the capability of your build, piloting and teamwork by using a consistent benchmark, not an "Obsession"... get over yourself OP.

    The OP is complaining about people who are jerks about dps, not about dps in general. I suggest you read carefully before insulting people who have legitimate complaints about the behavior of a rather loud and obnoxious group of players, even if they are a minority.

    Yes a few of them around & they all seem to fly Scim's.
  • delerouxdeleroux Member Posts: 478 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    Seriously wtf happened to strategy in this game?

    It was buried alongside PvP.

  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    tremere12 wrote: »
    I'm sick of parsers demonstrating their e-peen everywhere
    There is nothing wrong with parsing or failing to parse, but just to be clear, if I post a team parse of a run and others find that offensive and assume I'm judging them based on it, the failure is entirely their own.

    If they take the time to read it instead of jumping on derogatory terms (as seen on these forums, never in game in my experience) or hitting the ignore button as soon as they see a team parse, they'll see I often score quite 'low,' for example 8.2K DPS on my alt Sci toon in an Odyssey built for a bit of CC, tank, and DPS, fully geared with mission rewards. I also happen to be the one who routinely saves pug ISAs, knowing mission objectives, coming in with fleet members who know or are being instructed in the objectives, and otherwise competent flying by providing support where needed, and otherwise having a good time even when one or two seem intent on causing an optional fail.
    tremere12 wrote: »
    Just give the engis and sci's a little more.

    I have to agree with this. I don't play Engineer at all, or PVP (I voted for PVP in the poll and hope they resurrect it from the dead), but there's no doubt a coordinated group of Sci are very effective in PvE and would/should be a big problem for a Tac in PvP if things like game balance weren't sacrificed for short-term profit-above-all.

    Trouble as I see it now and for a long while now, is PvP is dead, being competitive while keeping up with power creep is very hard by grinding dilithium alone (pay2win), queues are empty, fleets have few members who are on who aren't themselves also busy grinding this or that to form teams and experiment with builds in a multiplayer-content deprived-environment that's entirely predictable and very repetitive.

    Sci and probably Engi would shine with proper team coordination which is hard to do for the reasons stated.
    Tacs and DPS are a sure way to get things done universally, and Cryptic justifiably in some ways doesn't want to risk upsetting players with missions and NPCs that exploit vulnerabilities in their builds and limitations of the class itself. Difficulty levels shouldn't be based on just inflating NPC hull to unrealistic levels but on overall mission complexity with appropriate mission rewards to match and without increasing the time it takes to complete it.

    The game has to change, but with powercreep in overdrive, balance out the window, and apparently so few resources and stringent demands that they can't even make a Romulan or KDF science ship, I for one don't have hope left of it and just try to have fun with the resources I grinded as well as paid for.
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