I think it should be mentioned at some point but I don't think that too much theater has to be put on around it. I think the iconian war could be (and its getting there) best represented as a lot of big things going on in an even bigger universe. If you stop and idle at any one you risk losing that expansive viewpoint.
Something in the background? Sure. Huge ceremony? Well, no. This is only part of the story.
And mind you that opinion has absolutely nothing to do with my new sig. :P
Let's see how you feel when an Iconian kills Space Lincoln. I'm debating whether that works with the Foundry EULA. It seems to me to be a grey area that could be argued but it would be solved if, like Worf, somebody at Cryptic decided to make a default contact costume for a few figures like Lincoln and Mark Twain.
(You might even argue that Mark Twain was a character adopted by Sam Clemens in the way that Stephen Colbert is a fictional character played by Stephen Colbert.)
I mean, there are real people in the Hamlet cast too. The players were, in the script, heavily implied to be Shakespeare's theater company (yes, I'm aware this doesn't make a lick of sense with Hamlet as a 7th century prince). And Hamlet is based on a historical prince of record, Amleth. (Who may or may not be real because the same text talks about Odin and Thor as real people but it is a halfway decent Danish historical document.)
So... Uhm. Howabout somebody at Cryptic works up a Lincoln and a Mark Twain and slips them into the contact list so authors can dodge any grey areas with the Foundry Eula. ;-) I'd even supply a design. :-)
So I searched google for the exact phrase "Enhanced Universal Tech Upgrade"
I cant find anything on about it. Is it worth taking over the spec point?
IMO, no. It gives you a bunch of tech points (about twice the amount that superior upgrades give, IIRC), and has a dil cost of 0 which is really nice, but adds no quality improvement chance. So the choice becomes: save a couple thousand dil, or save a few days of grinding XP? For me, that choice is easy.
IMO, no. It gives you a bunch of tech points (about twice the amount that superior upgrades give, IIRC), and has a dil cost of 0 which is really nice, but adds no quality improvement chance. So the choice becomes: save a couple thousand dil, or save a few days of grinding XP? For me, that choice is easy.
Thanks mate. In that case Ill go for the spec point ^^
Meeting, space course, ground mission, space combat, done.
The emphasis was just lost on the 2nd and 4th bits to flush out #3. I honestly think it hit the sweet spot (had meat but didn't drag on which I definitely feel blood of the ancients does.)
It is a short as delta flight, but the story had a bit more substance, I'd rather this was a bit longer to flesh it out a bit more, rather than 'fly through these circles repeatedly, ground combat section, fly through more circles, oh look someone you had a short dialogue at the start of the episode with died, attempt to feel sad, kill stuff in space, get rewards '
It definitely felt a bit more like star trek, though erring more on the ds9 side.
It is a short as delta flight, but the story had a bit more substance, I'd rather this was a bit longer to flesh it out a bit more, rather than 'fly through these circles repeatedly, ground combat section, fly through more circles, oh look someone you had a short dialogue at the start of the episode with died, attempt to feel sad, kill stuff in space, get rewards '
It definitely felt a bit more like star trek, though erring more on the ds9 side.
Agreed. Delta Flight felt like an extended playable commercial for the pilot ships. This actually feels like a story.
Normally, I don't side with you but today is another day. What year is it in Star Trek now? You would think that diversity of any kind is accepted in the future. The adults that are offended with LGBT, no matter where it is, should grow up and accept reality. It's all around us whether we like it or not. Well said, Trendy.
Am i offended? not in the least
am i pissed off? absolutley
why? i log into a game to get away from all the ******n PC garbage forced down my throat every damn day by the media and this WAS where i would come to escape it.
But HEY LOOK its rammed in my damn face again
The fact ramir mentions they are a couple need not be said even before i spoke to him i got the point they were just by tevr...whatever her names posturing arms crossed in a defensive manner.
I got the point ramir need not mention thier sexual preference that was where it pissed me off discretion ever hear of that word cryptic? NO? figures. :rolleyes:
For those who will say oh look a homophob think again a-hole my niece is a recently married TRIBBLE woman and im very happy for her and her wife and got no issues with how they choose to live life everyone is entitled to happiness no matter what.
I just dont like stuff rammed down my throat over and over again and when i come here for a break from it its rammed in my face again. :mad:
My Gorn KDF captain sounded suspiciously Human Fed though out the dialog.
The Kahless fight was a bit underwhelming, but I can see the appeal to him and why you can't talk him out of it. A Klingon hasn't killed a god in a while.
Someone was a bit trigger happy on that emergency beam out.
Seemed rather short, not necessarily because of a lack of content but because it ended rather abruptly. Maybe the next episode will cover the aftermath a bit.
Originally Posted by fortrun61 View Post
I played through the new FE to see what all the hulla baloo was all about and was quite frankly disgusted and saddened.
LGBT themes or there of have no place in games or anywhere else to be honest.
I fully expect to be belittled by so called tolerants, but it has to be said.
This was a bad move on the part of the writers and devs and they should be ashamed.
As I have said in a direct e-mail to the company, I will not spend a dime on this game over this nor will I ever support them or PWE unless they re-verse this move and leave such things out moving forward.
I don't recall the other times this theme has showed up in the other parts of the game to be honest, but the point still stands.
I fail to see what this has to do with anything in regards to homosexuality. I've known my father was TRIBBLE for as long as I can remember, since before elementary school. I'm straight, have a wife, and three kids. Exposure to the concept of homosexuality at a young age does not influence ones own sexuality in any way if that's what your afraid of. It's a normal part of life, the only reason it gets any attention is because so many people are intolerant and scared of something they do not understand.
Agree completely if you have issues with the younger generation being subjected to this so to speak then maybe you should contact a certain SIMulation game company that allows same sex couples and even allows them to have babies in it oh the shock and horror of it! :eek::eek::eek:
Kahless contracts a terminal case of Klingon Before Reason. A character that had a lot of storytelling potential thrown away callously...but no real loss, since none of that potential was being used anyway.
As soon as Sela said "entangled chroniton states in their brains" my immediate reaction was imagining my character thinking "Engineering, begin refitting all weapons with chroniton versions". With the Krenim reference we're now at the point where even the PAKLED should be saying "uh, why we not build chroniton weapons?" (Technically we don't know if the Heralds share that vulnerability but it's likely, otherwise the retconned-in prohibition against Iconian time travel doesn't make much sense.)
All in all, yet another example we didn't need of how Cryptic's mission designers still can't tell the difference between good and bad writing.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
Kahless contracts a terminal case of Klingon Before Reason. A character that had a lot of storytelling potential thrown away callously...but no real loss, since none of that potential was being used anyway.
Tbh after the Return of the fekl'ri arc theres really nothing left for kahless imo and i would rather see him go out a warrior then to fade into obscurity.
I am deeply deeply saddened right down to my bones by the outage and bigotry this smallest hint ever of a same sex relationship has caused.
As a TRIBBLE man myself I have been made to feel by all this stupidity and ignorance towards something that in life in 2015 is as normal as breathing oxygen that the community although obviously diverse with everyones beliefs and outlooks on life still has a long way to go before there is tolerance towards all, which correct me if I am wrong is what Star Trek is all about?!?
I find the games community a very unwelcoming place now which is so sad.
Its about time that the people who have expressed disgust with this realize that it's normal and being TRIBBLE does not make people any less human than a heterosexual man or woman. :mad:
Even in DS9 there was a hint towards a Bisexual/TRIBBLE Character with the Mirror episode The Emperors New Cloak wasnt the intendant and Ezri Dax lovers in this episode?!?
TNG even touched on the Subject of Gender/Sexual Difference with the episode The Outcast
So when I see the outcry of rage this smallest of small hint has caused I wonder how you felt when watching these iconic trek episodes?:rolleyes:
I have to say that I have found the comments here refreshingly positive with overwhelming support for the depiction. There will always be a few to post some hate but I think we are doing very well here. I am actually 40, female, and in a same sex relationship myself. Coming to terms with personal identity has been extremely difficult for me. Shows like TNG certainly helped a lot. It's why I'm here today typing this.
My first reaction to the scene was what? Then I examined several times to see if I was sure her mate was female. Then I said - wow, that's very cool. Then I thought about the reaction on the forum. I didn't expect this much of a stir, but I am proud of the game for this nod to inclusivity.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I have to say that I have found the comments here refreshingly positive with overwhelming support for the depiction. There will always be a few to post some hate but I think we are doing very well here. I am actually 40, female, and in a same sex relationship myself. Coming to terms with personal identity has been extremely difficult for me. Shows like TNG certainly helped a lot. It's why I'm here today typing this.
My first reaction to the scene was what? Then I examined several times to see if I was sure her mate was female. Then I said - wow, that's very cool. Then I thought about the reaction on the forum. I didn't expect this much of a stir, but I am proud of the game for this nod to inclusivity.
Thank you for your comments on my post its nice to see.:)
Tbh after the Return of the fekl'ri arc theres really nothing left for kahless imo and i would rather see him go out a warrior then to fade into obscurity.
Kahless is a clone. Vorta are clones. Coincidence!?! <dun dun duuuuun>
Seriously, though, it's not a huge stretch to expect that, after Kahless specifically says that nobody wielding the Sword of Kahless can be defeated, his next clone has already been prepped with his most recent memory update and was awaiting his expected fall in battle. Kahless is "immortal", and one of the theoretical SciFi variations of immortality is using clones uploaded with the memories of your most recent version as a means of perpetually "reincarnating" yourself.
Kahless v125.685.231.444.521.598.512 is dead, long live Kahless v125.685.231.444.521.598.513!
Then there are all sorts of temporal "cheats"... *cough* Tasha Yarr *cough*. Maybe the Kahless we saw die was a future Kahless that came back to help you after you failed to destroy the last Omega generator and were captured. Following your capture, your knowledge of classified information (such as the location of Kahless himself) could have put the Empire at such risk that Kahless gambled on going back and helping House Pegh with this specific mission. What we saw was not actually the defeat of Kahless, but his success in distracting the Iconian enough that you escaped... thereby negating his own need to intervene personally and ending his existence within your timestream.
Or, mobile holoemitters embedded in the Sword of Kahless were projecting a Holo Kahless.
Or, Mirror Kahless died.
Or, Kahless was secretly an Ocampa and he didn't die... he just turned into pure energy and next week he's going to facemelt the Iconians single handedly... with his BRAIN!
Or, Kahless has been around so long that he Ascended and became one of the Ancients... and still more facemelting... still with his BRAIN!!! Wait... wrong franchise...
Or, quantum duplicate Kahless.
Or, Qless.
Or, a convention goer from an alternate universe dressed as Kahless and somehow got pulled into this Star Trek universe and RP'd the **** out of his convention costume... and died.
Or Kahless is known as "the Unforgettable" because, unbeknownst to all including the Klingons themselves, the Klingon species has incredible psionic potential. It could very well be that he is the psionic manifestation of the Klingon collective unconscious, and may exist so long as there are Klingons to "remember" him; of course the reason he was able to harm the Iconian was that the Klingons in the mission believed that he would be able to do so after the Omega discharge. Of course! THAT'S why the damn Iconians keep TRIBBLE with the Klingons!
Or stuff...
In any case... just because we think we saw Kahless die doesn't mean we did, or that our Kahless died, or that there aren't other Kahless' to recruit, or that Kahless will stay dead. :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Thank you for your comments on my post its nice to see.:)
I'll add my voice as saying that I think the whole thing was actually done fairly well. A single mention of her mate, and the mate happened to also be female, then nothing more is said of it. Perfectly in the spirit of Star Trek, things which are hugely divisive today are treated as matter-of-fact and no big deal. I found myself doing a double-take at the model, then hearing the voice when I talked to her and thinking, "huh, Klingon lesbians, why not?" and moving on to go fly around and shoot at things.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
I just finished House Pegh, and loved it. I can't applaud the graphics enough, and the storyline was pretty awesome. I gotta echo the people who said the mission felt too short, it did feel too short. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about this episode's content, just pointing out that it did seem like it should have been maybe 10 minutes or so longer than it is.
Also, being that this is a franchise based on the concept of exploration & alien cultures, remembering the point of the Vulcans' IDIC goes well with B'Eler & her mate. If you can't handle that, go play on ABCMouse or something. Should be oodles more squeaky clean for you there.
why? i log into a game to get away from all the ******n PC garbage forced down my throat every damn day by the media and this WAS where i would come to escape it.
But HEY LOOK its rammed in my damn face again
The fact ramir mentions they are a couple need not be said even before i spoke to him i got the point they were just by tevr...whatever her names posturing arms crossed in a defensive manner.
I got the point ramir need not mention thier sexual preference that was where it pissed me off discretion ever hear of that word cryptic? NO? figures. :rolleyes:
For those who will say oh look a homophob think again a-hole my niece is a recently married TRIBBLE woman and im very happy for her and her wife and got no issues with how they choose to live life everyone is entitled to happiness no matter what.
I just dont like stuff rammed down my throat over and over again and when i come here for a break from it its rammed in my face again. :mad:
i find it interesting that you say you don't have an issue with same gender relationships, then say you come here to get away from all that pc garbage. so which is it, you have an issue or you dont? Then you tell us that you feel its being rammed down your throat, over and over again.. interesting choice of words by the way.. but please explain how exactly is 'be aware of the scientists mate, she can be very touchy' in any way ramming anything anywhere over and over and over again? also its like only the 2nd reference to a same gender relationship i've seen in game, and its the same npc.
was that piece of dialogue not just some good advice? advice for a 'non klingon' to be careful in dealing with the klingon scientist. you would almost certainly TRIBBLE off any klingons mate if you were to just railroad in and demand changes to their mates carefully contructed plan.. regardless of gender setup. you see something offensive, i see some good, weighted advice.. pretty good advice for dealing with any couple really.. but especially klingon!!
your passive aggressive reaction and wording clearly shows how uncomfortable you are with the whole same gender thing, otherwise this wouldn't even have registered with you, but hey, that isn't a crime, its a feeling, i just hope you are better at hiding that feeling in other company than you did here.
also, discretion is for something you want to keep low key, or feel is embarrassing or shameful.. it would be like asking a same gender couple you know, to not hold hands in public, so as to not draw any attention.. a pretty hurtful thing coming from a friend really.
Right so, we went off on a critical mission, and got Kahless killed, losing his bat'leth in the process.
..................didn't we used to win these things? :eek:
cool episode. I thought the lack of a mek'leth or some other Klingon oriented melee weapon was a missed opportunity though.
David Mamet once said something to the effect that a story is a string of failures and it ends when people stop failing or learn to fail better.
I think the missions since DR have been good at implementing that idea and doing it in a way where we're on hand for the failure but not responsible for it. Granted, we aren't stopping it and the failure may feel forced to some but I know that when the tide turns, we'll be leading that charge as well.
I'm surprised there's no discussion of who the Other are. I have a thought on that.
I must confess that I thought the whole affair could have been done somewhat better. I knew as soon as B'Elera's mate was described as being "protective" that there would be a TRIBBLE couple; this in itself doesn't bother me in the slightest, but that it was a butch/fem pairing was rather on the nose. Full marks for diversity but you lose a little for subtlety.
However, all was forgiven when Kahless started singing. Kudos to the voice actor, that was very stirring indeed.
As for you, jorantomalak, one line of dialogue does not constitute having something forced down one's throat. I'd suggest you visit a pride rally, if not for inevitable fallout. As Stonewall so concisely put it: "Some people are TRIBBLE. Get over it." That you feel the need for a "break" from this does not give much credence to your assertion that you have no problem with it.
The less said about The Outcast the better. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be off to the yovtah 'etlh club in the old quarter. I hear they have a new Bekk behind the bar with superlative ridges.
So if the mere mention of two people being together is "ramming down your throat" - how isn't every heterosexual couple "ramming down the throats" of homosexuals that man and woman can be together?
I do understand the point of being here to "get away from your everyday life". I'm in that boat myself. That is why I have a very lengthy "ignore" list of all those people making political statements and discussions (generally no matter the flavor of politics they try to get out), religious/atheistic stuff and suchlike. But it is not a major topic within this game or episode.
I can also understand not liking parts of a fictional universe. I don't like the way points for houses are scored and especially rubbed in in the Harry Potter series. Does that mean that J.K. Rowling was wrong in including it or should I have written a stern letter that her fictional school does not conform to what I (as a teacher) consider good education?
Another criticism of this episode was that it failed. What the heck? Do you expect to every time get a 100% success - especially when it is confined within an arc? I surely don't. "You saved the world successfully and did not make a single mistake" is already to prevalent - in this game and in others.
And of course we have some things that don't make sense - not getting some information because "you don't have to listen to NPCs" and then asking strange questions? "I agree 100%" with a post that is quite lauding but points out some faults - and then give a scathing review? Strange, but not as bad.
Generally I found the episode to be nice. I liked the Iconian interior, the disabling of the map for a change. This is definitely not "the worst ST writing ever", not even the worst STO writing. Some smaller quibbles remain though - the whole "changing of the setting due to 7% risk" is a bit too wesley-ish (somebody comes in and immediately improves a hopefully well thought-out plan). The inclusion of "him" could have used more space - although time restraints are there, it is a major character within lore and in my opinion was sold below value. The "honorable battle" question I also had - with the help of Omega? I agree that Klingons do not always strictly adhere to their own code without breaking a sweat, but here it felt a bit out of place. Gameplaywise that was the only situation (apart from you fighting the space fight alone) that I also didn't like - press three buttons within inches to achieve goal. Well, the inclusion of the Omega Molecule minigame wasn't too exciting either (although I am still not sure whether it wasn't intentionally cut short - as others I stopped at 100 points just when I finished my first molecule, I think I remember I needed more during the event).
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
Just a reminder. Let's keep civility. I know this can be a hot-button topic, but let's keep things nice and civil. After all, I'd much rather prefer that we fight with love and respect. We're impassioned by our concerns, but that doesn't mean we can't be civil and good-natured to each other. Oui?
Good.
"hot-button topic"? Where? It threw me because I wasn't expecting it. But in the long run it had exactly zero impact on both game play and the episode. TBH, it felt like someone in Marketing decided to stuff it in at the last minute.
In a word - yawn. Boring. Too many around here will pay entirely too much attention to this part of the episode and ignore the rest of it, though. A shame all that wonderful artwork and a great story in a bug free episode which was very well done will wind up playing second fiddle to the "real" issue.
Enough on this. Moving on. I liked the episode overall. I wasn't expecting QeylIss to be a central plot point. I enjoyed his appearance, Been too long. House of Pegh, hunh? I think Drake and the rest of Section 31 would approve. Ninja Klingons, heehee.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I'm surprised there's no discussion of who the Other are. I have a thought on that.
I do too, Q. Its what the Iconians are shooting for in their evolution from herald like organics to semi-corporal space demons (which is one step that the preservers wouldn't take themselves, their biotech was sufficient without the godlike powers, hence the rupture. Iconians wanted more direct control over the events of the universe.)
There's a long list of non-corporals that could just as easily be invoked, but Q (ie. John de Lancie, not event Q Jr) would be the most satisfying to involve with STO.
Alternatively, whomever built the whale-loving probe in ST4 probably has a stake in long-term galactic evolution.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Comments
Let's see how you feel when an Iconian kills Space Lincoln. I'm debating whether that works with the Foundry EULA. It seems to me to be a grey area that could be argued but it would be solved if, like Worf, somebody at Cryptic decided to make a default contact costume for a few figures like Lincoln and Mark Twain.
(You might even argue that Mark Twain was a character adopted by Sam Clemens in the way that Stephen Colbert is a fictional character played by Stephen Colbert.)
I mean, there are real people in the Hamlet cast too. The players were, in the script, heavily implied to be Shakespeare's theater company (yes, I'm aware this doesn't make a lick of sense with Hamlet as a 7th century prince). And Hamlet is based on a historical prince of record, Amleth. (Who may or may not be real because the same text talks about Odin and Thor as real people but it is a halfway decent Danish historical document.)
So... Uhm. Howabout somebody at Cryptic works up a Lincoln and a Mark Twain and slips them into the contact list so authors can dodge any grey areas with the Foundry Eula. ;-) I'd even supply a design. :-)
IMO, no. It gives you a bunch of tech points (about twice the amount that superior upgrades give, IIRC), and has a dil cost of 0 which is really nice, but adds no quality improvement chance. So the choice becomes: save a couple thousand dil, or save a few days of grinding XP? For me, that choice is easy.
Thanks mate. In that case Ill go for the spec point ^^
You might not want to use the word "mate" around here for a while. Apparently it offends some people. :P
It is a short as delta flight, but the story had a bit more substance, I'd rather this was a bit longer to flesh it out a bit more, rather than 'fly through these circles repeatedly, ground combat section, fly through more circles, oh look someone you had a short dialogue at the start of the episode with died, attempt to feel sad, kill stuff in space, get rewards '
It definitely felt a bit more like star trek, though erring more on the ds9 side.
Agreed. Delta Flight felt like an extended playable commercial for the pilot ships. This actually feels like a story.
Or maybe we'll be getting consoles with a "team cloak" ability. ;-)
Am i offended? not in the least
am i pissed off? absolutley
why? i log into a game to get away from all the ******n PC garbage forced down my throat every damn day by the media and this WAS where i would come to escape it.
But HEY LOOK its rammed in my damn face again
The fact ramir mentions they are a couple need not be said even before i spoke to him i got the point they were just by tevr...whatever her names posturing arms crossed in a defensive manner.
I got the point ramir need not mention thier sexual preference that was where it pissed me off discretion ever hear of that word cryptic? NO? figures. :rolleyes:
For those who will say oh look a homophob think again a-hole my niece is a recently married TRIBBLE woman and im very happy for her and her wife and got no issues with how they choose to live life everyone is entitled to happiness no matter what.
I just dont like stuff rammed down my throat over and over again and when i come here for a break from it its rammed in my face again. :mad:
Please...
No...
Can you imagine playing isa, and someone cloaks you just as the nanite spheres are about to close in.
It would be... funny... at first, but ultimately cause the death of pugging.
Thinking about it, it might resurrect PvP though
My Gorn KDF captain sounded suspiciously Human Fed though out the dialog.
The Kahless fight was a bit underwhelming, but I can see the appeal to him and why you can't talk him out of it. A Klingon hasn't killed a god in a while.
Someone was a bit trigger happy on that emergency beam out.
Seemed rather short, not necessarily because of a lack of content but because it ended rather abruptly. Maybe the next episode will cover the aftermath a bit.
Agree completely if you have issues with the younger generation being subjected to this so to speak then maybe you should contact a certain SIMulation game company that allows same sex couples and even allows them to have babies in it oh the shock and horror of it! :eek::eek::eek:
It would probably be a "team fire while cloaked" or similar to the photonic tribble, drop a temp cloak in everyone's inventory that can be used.
Kahless contracts a terminal case of Klingon Before Reason. A character that had a lot of storytelling potential thrown away callously...but no real loss, since none of that potential was being used anyway.
As soon as Sela said "entangled chroniton states in their brains" my immediate reaction was imagining my character thinking "Engineering, begin refitting all weapons with chroniton versions". With the Krenim reference we're now at the point where even the PAKLED should be saying "uh, why we not build chroniton weapons?" (Technically we don't know if the Heralds share that vulnerability but it's likely, otherwise the retconned-in prohibition against Iconian time travel doesn't make much sense.)
All in all, yet another example we didn't need of how Cryptic's mission designers still can't tell the difference between good and bad writing.
This would be a Nightmare! Trollers and griefers would love this! :cool:
Tbh after the Return of the fekl'ri arc theres really nothing left for kahless imo and i would rather see him go out a warrior then to fade into obscurity.
I have to say that I have found the comments here refreshingly positive with overwhelming support for the depiction. There will always be a few to post some hate but I think we are doing very well here. I am actually 40, female, and in a same sex relationship myself. Coming to terms with personal identity has been extremely difficult for me. Shows like TNG certainly helped a lot. It's why I'm here today typing this.
My first reaction to the scene was what? Then I examined several times to see if I was sure her mate was female. Then I said - wow, that's very cool. Then I thought about the reaction on the forum. I didn't expect this much of a stir, but I am proud of the game for this nod to inclusivity.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Thank you for your comments on my post its nice to see.:)
Kahless is a clone. Vorta are clones. Coincidence!?! <dun dun duuuuun>
Seriously, though, it's not a huge stretch to expect that, after Kahless specifically says that nobody wielding the Sword of Kahless can be defeated, his next clone has already been prepped with his most recent memory update and was awaiting his expected fall in battle. Kahless is "immortal", and one of the theoretical SciFi variations of immortality is using clones uploaded with the memories of your most recent version as a means of perpetually "reincarnating" yourself.
Kahless v125.685.231.444.521.598.512 is dead, long live Kahless v125.685.231.444.521.598.513!
Then there are all sorts of temporal "cheats"... *cough* Tasha Yarr *cough*. Maybe the Kahless we saw die was a future Kahless that came back to help you after you failed to destroy the last Omega generator and were captured. Following your capture, your knowledge of classified information (such as the location of Kahless himself) could have put the Empire at such risk that Kahless gambled on going back and helping House Pegh with this specific mission. What we saw was not actually the defeat of Kahless, but his success in distracting the Iconian enough that you escaped... thereby negating his own need to intervene personally and ending his existence within your timestream.
Or, mobile holoemitters embedded in the Sword of Kahless were projecting a Holo Kahless.
Or, Mirror Kahless died.
Or, Kahless was secretly an Ocampa and he didn't die... he just turned into pure energy and next week he's going to facemelt the Iconians single handedly... with his BRAIN!
Or, Kahless has been around so long that he Ascended and became one of the Ancients... and still more facemelting... still with his BRAIN!!! Wait... wrong franchise...
Or, quantum duplicate Kahless.
Or, Qless.
Or, a convention goer from an alternate universe dressed as Kahless and somehow got pulled into this Star Trek universe and RP'd the **** out of his convention costume... and died.
Or Kahless is known as "the Unforgettable" because, unbeknownst to all including the Klingons themselves, the Klingon species has incredible psionic potential. It could very well be that he is the psionic manifestation of the Klingon collective unconscious, and may exist so long as there are Klingons to "remember" him; of course the reason he was able to harm the Iconian was that the Klingons in the mission believed that he would be able to do so after the Omega discharge. Of course! THAT'S why the damn Iconians keep TRIBBLE with the Klingons!
Or stuff...
In any case... just because we think we saw Kahless die doesn't mean we did, or that our Kahless died, or that there aren't other Kahless' to recruit, or that Kahless will stay dead. :P
I'll add my voice as saying that I think the whole thing was actually done fairly well. A single mention of her mate, and the mate happened to also be female, then nothing more is said of it. Perfectly in the spirit of Star Trek, things which are hugely divisive today are treated as matter-of-fact and no big deal. I found myself doing a double-take at the model, then hearing the voice when I talked to her and thinking, "huh, Klingon lesbians, why not?" and moving on to go fly around and shoot at things.
Also, being that this is a franchise based on the concept of exploration & alien cultures, remembering the point of the Vulcans' IDIC goes well with B'Eler & her mate. If you can't handle that, go play on ABCMouse or something. Should be oodles more squeaky clean for you there.
i find it interesting that you say you don't have an issue with same gender relationships, then say you come here to get away from all that pc garbage. so which is it, you have an issue or you dont? Then you tell us that you feel its being rammed down your throat, over and over again.. interesting choice of words by the way.. but please explain how exactly is 'be aware of the scientists mate, she can be very touchy' in any way ramming anything anywhere over and over and over again? also its like only the 2nd reference to a same gender relationship i've seen in game, and its the same npc.
was that piece of dialogue not just some good advice? advice for a 'non klingon' to be careful in dealing with the klingon scientist. you would almost certainly TRIBBLE off any klingons mate if you were to just railroad in and demand changes to their mates carefully contructed plan.. regardless of gender setup. you see something offensive, i see some good, weighted advice.. pretty good advice for dealing with any couple really.. but especially klingon!!
your passive aggressive reaction and wording clearly shows how uncomfortable you are with the whole same gender thing, otherwise this wouldn't even have registered with you, but hey, that isn't a crime, its a feeling, i just hope you are better at hiding that feeling in other company than you did here.
also, discretion is for something you want to keep low key, or feel is embarrassing or shameful.. it would be like asking a same gender couple you know, to not hold hands in public, so as to not draw any attention.. a pretty hurtful thing coming from a friend really.
China, 1890s: Where's this Opium we're supposed to be fighting? It's called the Opium War, after all.
I have more about Roses, and varying numbers of Years.
..................didn't we used to win these things? :eek:
cool episode. I thought the lack of a mek'leth or some other Klingon oriented melee weapon was a missed opportunity though.
Yeah, I made my Photonic BoFF a Photonic Kahless.. because my character Donatra is from the Mirror Universe.
I got Liberated Taris, the Viceroy Reman from Nemises - also Liberated and Liberated Sirella.
It's quite a pair-up. Oh and Toven.. sadly.
David Mamet once said something to the effect that a story is a string of failures and it ends when people stop failing or learn to fail better.
I think the missions since DR have been good at implementing that idea and doing it in a way where we're on hand for the failure but not responsible for it. Granted, we aren't stopping it and the failure may feel forced to some but I know that when the tide turns, we'll be leading that charge as well.
I'm surprised there's no discussion of who the Other are. I have a thought on that.
However, all was forgiven when Kahless started singing. Kudos to the voice actor, that was very stirring indeed.
As for you, jorantomalak, one line of dialogue does not constitute having something forced down one's throat. I'd suggest you visit a pride rally, if not for inevitable fallout. As Stonewall so concisely put it: "Some people are TRIBBLE. Get over it." That you feel the need for a "break" from this does not give much credence to your assertion that you have no problem with it.
The less said about The Outcast the better. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll be off to the yovtah 'etlh club in the old quarter. I hear they have a new Bekk behind the bar with superlative ridges.
I do understand the point of being here to "get away from your everyday life". I'm in that boat myself. That is why I have a very lengthy "ignore" list of all those people making political statements and discussions (generally no matter the flavor of politics they try to get out), religious/atheistic stuff and suchlike. But it is not a major topic within this game or episode.
I can also understand not liking parts of a fictional universe. I don't like the way points for houses are scored and especially rubbed in in the Harry Potter series. Does that mean that J.K. Rowling was wrong in including it or should I have written a stern letter that her fictional school does not conform to what I (as a teacher) consider good education?
Another criticism of this episode was that it failed. What the heck? Do you expect to every time get a 100% success - especially when it is confined within an arc? I surely don't. "You saved the world successfully and did not make a single mistake" is already to prevalent - in this game and in others.
And of course we have some things that don't make sense - not getting some information because "you don't have to listen to NPCs" and then asking strange questions? "I agree 100%" with a post that is quite lauding but points out some faults - and then give a scathing review? Strange, but not as bad.
Generally I found the episode to be nice. I liked the Iconian interior, the disabling of the map for a change. This is definitely not "the worst ST writing ever", not even the worst STO writing. Some smaller quibbles remain though - the whole "changing of the setting due to 7% risk" is a bit too wesley-ish (somebody comes in and immediately improves a hopefully well thought-out plan). The inclusion of "him" could have used more space - although time restraints are there, it is a major character within lore and in my opinion was sold below value. The "honorable battle" question I also had - with the help of Omega? I agree that Klingons do not always strictly adhere to their own code without breaking a sweat, but here it felt a bit out of place. Gameplaywise that was the only situation (apart from you fighting the space fight alone) that I also didn't like - press three buttons within inches to achieve goal. Well, the inclusion of the Omega Molecule minigame wasn't too exciting either (although I am still not sure whether it wasn't intentionally cut short - as others I stopped at 100 points just when I finished my first molecule, I think I remember I needed more during the event).
"hot-button topic"? Where? It threw me because I wasn't expecting it. But in the long run it had exactly zero impact on both game play and the episode. TBH, it felt like someone in Marketing decided to stuff it in at the last minute.
In a word - yawn. Boring. Too many around here will pay entirely too much attention to this part of the episode and ignore the rest of it, though. A shame all that wonderful artwork and a great story in a bug free episode which was very well done will wind up playing second fiddle to the "real" issue.
Enough on this. Moving on. I liked the episode overall. I wasn't expecting QeylIss to be a central plot point. I enjoyed his appearance, Been too long. House of Pegh, hunh? I think Drake and the rest of Section 31 would approve. Ninja Klingons, heehee.
I do too, Q. Its what the Iconians are shooting for in their evolution from herald like organics to semi-corporal space demons (which is one step that the preservers wouldn't take themselves, their biotech was sufficient without the godlike powers, hence the rupture. Iconians wanted more direct control over the events of the universe.)
There's a long list of non-corporals that could just as easily be invoked, but Q (ie. John de Lancie, not event Q Jr) would be the most satisfying to involve with STO.
Alternatively, whomever built the whale-loving probe in ST4 probably has a stake in long-term galactic evolution.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!