Avoiding posting my opinions about that one certain topic which people have made way more of an issue of on the forums than anybody in the mission ever did...
I quite enjoyed this mission. It's one of those missions where I'm not actually dreading the thought of having to run it another twice to get the weekly rewards.
Plus the interior of the Iconian/Herald base was really cool looking. Well done to whomever was working on that!
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I'll be blunt, but sexual preferences should be kept out of the game.
What people do in RP or in their fleet is their choice, but things like this bit of trash (not because of a dislike towards LGBT but because of its place in the game) should be kept out of general content of the game.
This game is supposed to be for all ages and anything sexual should be not have made it into the game.
I did not even catch that my first run through, although i read through it fairly fast, did not wait for the VOs
David Mamet once said something to the effect that a story is a string of failures and it ends when people stop failing or learn to fail better.
I think the missions since DR have been good at implementing that idea and doing it in a way where we're on hand for the failure but not responsible for it. Granted, we aren't stopping it and the failure may feel forced to some but I know that when the tide turns, we'll be leading that charge as well.
I'm surprised there's no discussion of who the Other are. I have a thought on that.
I feel like these missions are a lot like the span of time that passed in between DS9 seasons 5 and 6. That entire segment was unseen battles where the Federation, and Klingons constantly lost one battle after another against the Dominion. I agree that so far these missions have been very good at setting this up. Let's just hope we get this wars equivalent of "Sacrifice of Angels" before it is too late. :eek:
as for the "other", I haven't really put a whole lot of thought into it. I considered the idea that maybe its a power in the temporal cold war that is taking advantage of the Iconians lack of time travelling capability to use them as an excellent proxy. I don't think this is the case however. It's probably some sort of powerful being from the past. Maybe Not God/Sha Ka Ree from ST 5, or some other great being like a Q. It could have been a Pah Wraith though to, given that the prophets were aware of these events as well. Of course the Prophets could be aware of any number of other great beings for all we know.....so really it could be anyone or anything.
I knew as soon as B'Elera's mate was described as being "protective" that there would be a TRIBBLE couple; this in itself doesn't bother me in the slightest, but that it was a butch/fem pairing was rather on the nose. Full marks for diversity but you lose a little for subtlety.
Actually I just remembered her from the earlier appearance.
FWIW, I wasn't offended by it, but I agree that it has no place in a teen-rated product. Alternate lifestyles are a mature theme.
Another criticism of this episode was that it failed. What the heck? Do you expect to every time get a 100% success - especially when it is confined within an arc? I surely don't. "You saved the world successfully and did not make a single mistake" is already to prevalent - in this game and in others.
No, but having Orwell's boot constantly smashing the players' faces is neither necessary nor desired, either. We've already had the entire Preserver arc turned into a Shaggy Dog Story via a merciless beating.
Someone downthread compared the Iconian content thus far to the early parts of the Dominion war in DS9. The problem is that there are things you can do in non-interactive media that you can't do in interactive media. You can deal setback after setback to fictional characters because they just don't care. Even that has limits though; eventually you will reach Darkness Induced Audience Apathy and people will tune out. The more attached the audience is to the characters the faster that will happen. Of course, in interactive media, i.e. RPGs, the audience and the characters are one and the same, meaning the level of attachment approaches infinity. There may be a killer GM out there who's managed to keep his group but after decades in the hobby I've yet to meet him.
In this case, would it really have hurt to have let the player either succeed in the mission objectives but lose Kahless or fail the mission but save Kahless? I would have gone with the latter myself as a counterpoint to "Delta Flight" (where you destroy the objective but lose a man) but either way would have been vastly preferable to another "u suk n00b" mission so soon.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
dheffernan, it's not a mature theme any more than a horga'hn in the summer event is. In case you forgot: http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Horga%27hn
In other words, possession of a horga'hn in canon is denoting looking for happy ending fun time (jamaharon) Should the devs remove it from the game, too? It's a pretty well established way of getting boinked on Risa, are we still thinking about the children playing this game, all ya Mrs Lovejoys out there?
dheffernan, it's not a mature theme any more than a horga'hn in the summer event is. In case you forgot: http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Horga%27hn
In other words, possession of a horga'hn in canon is denoting looking for happy ending fun time (jamaharon) Should the devs remove it from the game, too? It's a pretty well established way of getting boinked on Risa, are we still thinking about the children playing this game, all ya Mrs Lovejoys out there?
Yeah, not happy about that either. I'd rather Risa wasn't in the game at all.
@Venture-1. @Venture from City of Heroes if you remember that. Yes, that Venture. Yes, I probably trashed your MA arc. You'll have to be specific; for me it was Tuesday.
For all the "offended" people that say "I'm not a homophobe, but..." Yes, what exactly you are is a homophobe.
LGBT people are born that way, its not a choice, its not a political position, its not political correctness, its biology. And its not only biology exhibited by humans. Over 400 species have naturally occurring LGBT members, including a large array of primates and other mammals.
But, there is good news for the homophobes, studies indicate that their homophobia is caused by internal self hate due to their own homosexual tendencies. There are support groups that can help you come to terms with your homosexuality, I suggest contacting one. Learning to love yourself is the first step.
For all the "offended" people that say "I'm not a homophobe, but..." Yes, what exactly you are is a homophobe.
LGBT people are born that way, its not a choice, its not a political position, its not political correctness, its biology. And its not only biology exhibited by humans. Over 400 species have naturally occurring LGBT members, including a large array of primates and other mammals.
But, there is good news for the homophobes, studies indicate that their homophobia is caused by internal self hate due to their own homosexual tendencies. There are support groups that can help you come to terms with your homosexuality, I suggest contacting one. Learning to love yourself is the first step.
For all the "offended" people that say "I'm not a homophobe, but..." Yes, what exactly you are is a homophobe.
LGBT people are born that way, its not a choice, its not a political position, its not political correctness, its biology. And its not only biology exhibited by humans. Over 400 species have naturally occurring LGBT members, including a large array of primates and other mammals.
But, there is good news for the homophobes, studies indicate that their homophobia is caused by internal self hate due to their own homosexual tendencies. There are support groups that can help you come to terms with your homosexuality, I suggest contacting one. Learning to love yourself is the first step.
Heh, so anyone disagreeing is 1 a homophobe, and 2 in the closet huh? Ahhh SJWs just have The Answer for everything don't they?
More like the person against it is a homophobe. Some individuals fear what they don't understand. They need to educate themselves about the biology behind it before they comment.
For all the "offended" people that say "I'm not a homophobe, but..." Yes, what exactly you are is a homophobe.
LGBT people are born that way, its not a choice, its not a political position, its not political correctness, its biology. And its not only biology exhibited by humans. Over 400 species have naturally occurring LGBT members, including a large array of primates and other mammals.
But, there is good news for the homophobes, studies indicate that their homophobia is caused by internal self hate due to their own homosexual tendencies. There are support groups that can help you come to terms with your homosexuality, I suggest contacting one. Learning to love yourself is the first step.
Ok let me tell you something i do not like stuff crammed down my throat and shoved in my face over and over and DAMN WELL OVER AGAIN!!:mad:
I turn on the TV and its in my face every damn news channel there it is every damn show etc etc and etc .
I Open a newspaper and any other forms of news or media ajnd its being shoved in my face so i come here to get away from that and well look at that its SHOVED IN MY FACE AGAIN! :mad:
I already knew from spin the wheel b'lera was a TRIBBLE since it was already said her mate was female so now ramir has to shove it my face again? SERIOUSLY? :mad:
And oh look at that IT SERVED NO DAMN PURPOSE AT ALL !!! except to shove something in my face that i already get shoved in my face everywhere else thank cryptic for just shoving something as unimportant as a persons personal life in my face again.
Ok let me tell you something i do not like stuff crammed down my throat and shoved in my face over and over and DAMN WELL OVER AGAIN!!:mad:
I turn on the TV and its in my face every damn news channel there it is every damn show etc etc and etc .
I Open a newspaper and any other forms of news or media ajnd its being shoved in my face so i come here to get away from that and well look at that its SHOVED IN MY FACE AGAIN! :mad:
I already knew from spin the wheel b'lera was a TRIBBLE since it was already said her mate was female so now ramir has to shove it my face again? SERIOUSLY? :mad:
And oh look at that IT SERVED NO DAMN PURPOSE AT ALL !!! except to shove something in my face that i already get shoved in my face everywhere else thank cryptic for just shoving something as unimportant as a persons personal life in my face again.
With all due respect, "shoving it in your face" would have been more like having to go to their quarters to speak to her and interrupting them whilst they were 'at it'... Mentioning that her mate is over protective and then you walk over to see that her mate happens to be a woman, is hardly shoving anything in your face.
But since it clearly upsets you so much, imagine just for one small second what it's like for all the LGBT people growing up and living in a world where heterosexual relationships are "shoved in their faces" in every direction they look, all day long, every day of their lives. Not to mention all the bile and hatred spewed out in their direction every day.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Ok let me tell you something i do not like stuff crammed down my throat and shoved in my face over and over and DAMN WELL OVER AGAIN!!:mad:
I turn on the TV and its in my face every damn news channel there it is every damn show etc etc and etc .
I Open a newspaper and any other forms of news or media ajnd its being shoved in my face so i come here to get away from that and well look at that its SHOVED IN MY FACE AGAIN! :mad:
I already knew from spin the wheel b'lera was a TRIBBLE since it was already said her mate was female so now ramir has to shove it my face again? SERIOUSLY? :mad:
And oh look at that IT SERVED NO DAMN PURPOSE AT ALL !!! except to shove something in my face that i already get shoved in my face everywhere else thank cryptic for just shoving something as unimportant as a persons personal life in my face again.
Then I suppose I should be upset that Picard drank Earl Grey Tea. I mean, that was thrown in my face all the time on TNG and never mattered!
With all due respect, "shoving it in your face" would have been more like having to go to their quarters to speak to her and interrupting them whilst they were 'at it'... Mentioning that her mate is over protective and then you walk over to see that her mate happens to be a woman, is hardly shoving anything in your face.
But since it clearly upsets you so much, imagine just for one small second what it's like for all the LGBT people growing up and living in a world where heterosexual relationships are "shoved in their faces" in every direction they look, all day long, every day of their lives. Not to mention all the bile and hatred spewed out in their direction every day.
well thats pretty much what is being done so they are TRIBBLE whoopdidy doo i dont give a good god damn.
i just cant stand having an issue rammed in my face over and over again no matter where the F---K i go im so damn sick of it.
I was brought up to mind my own business and not mind that of others and peoples personal lives and choices are NOT my business...untill its shoved in my face and MADE my business.
Joran, you need to grow up. If you think anyone is going to take anything you say seriously at this point after flipping the heck out over one line of dialogue in a game, you've got another thing coming. I get that you dislike characters to have depth in anything you come across. We all get it, nothing should have any hint of a developed back-story ever, unless it's straight as an arrow.
Crimeny, Rejoined must have resulted in foaming at the mouth (never mind that whole back-story it involved & WHY their relationship was what it was with Jadzia as the host)
Speaking of Rejoined, this is a good trivia tidbit about the episode & is applicable to the folks complaining about the stuff teen players see in-game:
There is a story regarding the man complaining about his kids seeing the kiss: It was a production assistant who took the call. After hearing the man's complaint, the PA asked if the man would've been okay with his kids seeing one woman shoot the other. When the man said he would be okay with that, the PA said "You should reconsider who's messing up your kids".
well thats pretty much what is being done so they are TRIBBLE whoopdidy doo i dont give a good god damn.
i just cant stand having an issue rammed in my face over and over again no matter where the F---K i go im so damn sick of it.
I was brought up to mind my own business and not mind that of others and peoples personal lives and choices are NOT my business...untill its shoved in my face and MADE my business.
Its damn tiring tbh
Then mind your own business. You are making this your own business.
well thats pretty much what is being done so they are TRIBBLE whoopdidy doo i dont give a good god damn.
i just cant stand having an issue rammed in my face over and over again no matter where the F---K i go im so damn sick of it.
I was brought up to mind my own business and not mind that of others and peoples personal lives and choices are NOT my business...untill its shoved in my face and MADE my business.
Its damn tiring tbh
I'm afraid I can't see how you think this was shoving anything in your face. If he had said her mate was protective and then you walked over to find her mate was male, would you have felt they were shoving that in your face? Or would you have just not even commented because it does not warrant a comment?
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I like the episode seemed to be harder than some of the others so far but thats not a problem gave me a little challenge. the Trait i have the issue with why does up close and personal have to do with ranged weapons shouldnt it be used for melee weapons.
Kahless death wasn't really a surprise as I saw it coming straight away but the ships were not the ships you went past t the beginning what was up with that
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I feel like people are taking this way too seriously. I just walked into the mission, noted the fact that these two characters were a couple, shrugged, and continued on with the mission. It was a minor plot point, nothing more, nothing less. I didn't see it as offensive or forcing a topic. It would have been a forced topic if the majority of the mission was about this relationship, which it really wasn't. It was about botching another mission against the Iconians, and watching kahless die.
- fight with kahless
- the new house
- the spec point.
the mission is badly written, no suspens, we can do what we want in an iconian base! no problem for using the consoles (iconians don't have security codes? they speak english like the rest of the galaxy?), sentinels are stupid and killed too easily (ground and space)
after the 3rd wave of ships, they don't call reinforcements!
Agreed. Delta Flight felt like an extended playable commercial for the pilot ships. This actually feels like a story.
Really? I took a Negh'tev through at least on normal and did it just fine. Since it gets 40 deg/sec in the config I had it in now, I may try doing expert next time. I did it on expert with an MVAE. ^_^
Yes, pilot ships were in it, but my ships did damned good, so I didn't feel it worth the money to get a special ship. Though trying to push an Atrox through it, even on easy... was silly and funny. ^_^ It sold me on not bothering with pilot ships. ^_^
----
As far as the big 'hot topic' goes, as mentioned once, I didn't even notice/realize it, coulda been sisters for all I knew/cared and how little it affected the plot. I just liked the red oni/blue oni vibe from em. ^_^
You people are making mountains out of anthills. Or specks of dirt. I can't even tell anymore as far as the issue has been blown out of proportion. ^_^
Ok let me tell you something i do not like stuff crammed down my throat and shoved in my face over and over and DAMN WELL OVER AGAIN!!:mad:
I turn on the TV and its in my face every damn news channel there it is every damn show etc etc and etc .
I Open a newspaper and any other forms of news or media ajnd its being shoved in my face so i come here to get away from that and well look at that its SHOVED IN MY FACE AGAIN! :mad:
I already knew from spin the wheel b'lera was a TRIBBLE since it was already said her mate was female so now ramir has to shove it my face again? SERIOUSLY? :mad:
And oh look at that IT SERVED NO DAMN PURPOSE AT ALL !!! except to shove something in my face that i already get shoved in my face everywhere else thank cryptic for just shoving something as unimportant as a persons personal life in my face again.
With respect, if you feel that its "Unimportant" then why rant it so we feel TRIBBLE for something you clearly dislike?, could you have had a say in being born to be a motoring Fan or Sto Fan?
So lets put aside this matter, because were here to play Startrek online and you and all others, differences considered are in Faith Friends. Peace and long life.
well thats pretty much what is being done so they are TRIBBLE whoopdidy doo i dont give a good god damn.
i just cant stand having an issue rammed in my face over and over again no matter where the F---K i go im so damn sick of it.
I was brought up to mind my own business and not mind that of others and peoples personal lives and choices are NOT my business...untill its shoved in my face and MADE my business.
Its damn tiring tbh
If one of those characters was a man instead of them both being women, you'd not be here ********. That makes you a bigot.
At least have the decency to be honest with yourself.
My take on B'Eler and her mate (whose name I forget):
Even with my conservative Christian beliefs, I am not surprised or concerned. True, homosexual relationships have no place in my personal beliefs, but I don't expect everyone to follow my beliefs. And this is a Star Trek game, it was bound to happen, especially considering that there are other homosexual characters in STO
Comments
I quite enjoyed this mission. It's one of those missions where I'm not actually dreading the thought of having to run it another twice to get the weekly rewards.
Plus the interior of the Iconian/Herald base was really cool looking. Well done to whomever was working on that!
I did not even catch that my first run through, although i read through it fairly fast, did not wait for the VOs
I feel like these missions are a lot like the span of time that passed in between DS9 seasons 5 and 6. That entire segment was unseen battles where the Federation, and Klingons constantly lost one battle after another against the Dominion. I agree that so far these missions have been very good at setting this up. Let's just hope we get this wars equivalent of "Sacrifice of Angels" before it is too late. :eek:
as for the "other", I haven't really put a whole lot of thought into it. I considered the idea that maybe its a power in the temporal cold war that is taking advantage of the Iconians lack of time travelling capability to use them as an excellent proxy. I don't think this is the case however. It's probably some sort of powerful being from the past. Maybe Not God/Sha Ka Ree from ST 5, or some other great being like a Q. It could have been a Pah Wraith though to, given that the prophets were aware of these events as well. Of course the Prophets could be aware of any number of other great beings for all we know.....so really it could be anyone or anything.
Actually I just remembered her from the earlier appearance.
FWIW, I wasn't offended by it, but I agree that it has no place in a teen-rated product. Alternate lifestyles are a mature theme.
No, but having Orwell's boot constantly smashing the players' faces is neither necessary nor desired, either. We've already had the entire Preserver arc turned into a Shaggy Dog Story via a merciless beating.
Someone downthread compared the Iconian content thus far to the early parts of the Dominion war in DS9. The problem is that there are things you can do in non-interactive media that you can't do in interactive media. You can deal setback after setback to fictional characters because they just don't care. Even that has limits though; eventually you will reach Darkness Induced Audience Apathy and people will tune out. The more attached the audience is to the characters the faster that will happen. Of course, in interactive media, i.e. RPGs, the audience and the characters are one and the same, meaning the level of attachment approaches infinity. There may be a killer GM out there who's managed to keep his group but after decades in the hobby I've yet to meet him.
In this case, would it really have hurt to have let the player either succeed in the mission objectives but lose Kahless or fail the mission but save Kahless? I would have gone with the latter myself as a counterpoint to "Delta Flight" (where you destroy the objective but lose a man) but either way would have been vastly preferable to another "u suk n00b" mission so soon.
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Horga%27hn
In other words, possession of a horga'hn in canon is denoting looking for happy ending fun time (jamaharon) Should the devs remove it from the game, too? It's a pretty well established way of getting boinked on Risa, are we still thinking about the children playing this game, all ya Mrs Lovejoys out there?
Yeah, not happy about that either. I'd rather Risa wasn't in the game at all.
LGBT people are born that way, its not a choice, its not a political position, its not political correctness, its biology. And its not only biology exhibited by humans. Over 400 species have naturally occurring LGBT members, including a large array of primates and other mammals.
But, there is good news for the homophobes, studies indicate that their homophobia is caused by internal self hate due to their own homosexual tendencies. There are support groups that can help you come to terms with your homosexuality, I suggest contacting one. Learning to love yourself is the first step.
You win the internetz today. *golf clap*
Heh, so anyone disagreeing is 1 a homophobe, and 2 in the closet huh? Ahhh SJWs just have The Answer for everything don't they?
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Ok let me tell you something i do not like stuff crammed down my throat and shoved in my face over and over and DAMN WELL OVER AGAIN!!:mad:
I turn on the TV and its in my face every damn news channel there it is every damn show etc etc and etc .
I Open a newspaper and any other forms of news or media ajnd its being shoved in my face so i come here to get away from that and well look at that its SHOVED IN MY FACE AGAIN! :mad:
I already knew from spin the wheel b'lera was a TRIBBLE since it was already said her mate was female so now ramir has to shove it my face again? SERIOUSLY? :mad:
And oh look at that IT SERVED NO DAMN PURPOSE AT ALL !!! except to shove something in my face that i already get shoved in my face everywhere else thank cryptic for just shoving something as unimportant as a persons personal life in my face again.
With all due respect, "shoving it in your face" would have been more like having to go to their quarters to speak to her and interrupting them whilst they were 'at it'... Mentioning that her mate is over protective and then you walk over to see that her mate happens to be a woman, is hardly shoving anything in your face.
But since it clearly upsets you so much, imagine just for one small second what it's like for all the LGBT people growing up and living in a world where heterosexual relationships are "shoved in their faces" in every direction they look, all day long, every day of their lives. Not to mention all the bile and hatred spewed out in their direction every day.
Then I suppose I should be upset that Picard drank Earl Grey Tea. I mean, that was thrown in my face all the time on TNG and never mattered!
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
well thats pretty much what is being done so they are TRIBBLE whoopdidy doo i dont give a good god damn.
i just cant stand having an issue rammed in my face over and over again no matter where the F---K i go im so damn sick of it.
I was brought up to mind my own business and not mind that of others and peoples personal lives and choices are NOT my business...untill its shoved in my face and MADE my business.
Its damn tiring tbh
Crimeny, Rejoined must have resulted in foaming at the mouth (never mind that whole back-story it involved & WHY their relationship was what it was with Jadzia as the host)
Speaking of Rejoined, this is a good trivia tidbit about the episode & is applicable to the folks complaining about the stuff teen players see in-game: http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Rejoined_%28episode%29
The next person that complains about teens in the game seeing 2 fictitious Klingons being a couple needs to read what I bolded up there.
Then mind your own business. You are making this your own business.
I'm afraid I can't see how you think this was shoving anything in your face. If he had said her mate was protective and then you walked over to find her mate was male, would you have felt they were shoving that in your face? Or would you have just not even commented because it does not warrant a comment?
Kahless death wasn't really a surprise as I saw it coming straight away but the ships were not the ships you went past t the beginning what was up with that
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hey those girls are just like my neighbors complete with the overforced masculinity of the "male" partner.
I'd say they got the characture right if it matches a RL couple.
Then I was like: Klingons tolerate TRIBBLE females?
I would think the males would be bigoted about that competition.
She didn't look like she could take any of the males there, maybe she proved herself in battle.
So then I thought: Mission moving on.
I will at that cryptic just lost a player
the 3 points:
- fight with kahless
- the new house
- the spec point.
the mission is badly written, no suspens, we can do what we want in an iconian base! no problem for using the consoles (iconians don't have security codes? they speak english like the rest of the galaxy?), sentinels are stupid and killed too easily (ground and space)
after the 3rd wave of ships, they don't call reinforcements!
mini-game bugged
the script is just empty.
Really? I took a Negh'tev through at least on normal and did it just fine. Since it gets 40 deg/sec in the config I had it in now, I may try doing expert next time. I did it on expert with an MVAE. ^_^
Yes, pilot ships were in it, but my ships did damned good, so I didn't feel it worth the money to get a special ship. Though trying to push an Atrox through it, even on easy... was silly and funny. ^_^ It sold me on not bothering with pilot ships. ^_^
----
As far as the big 'hot topic' goes, as mentioned once, I didn't even notice/realize it, coulda been sisters for all I knew/cared and how little it affected the plot. I just liked the red oni/blue oni vibe from em. ^_^
You people are making mountains out of anthills. Or specks of dirt. I can't even tell anymore as far as the issue has been blown out of proportion. ^_^
"Spock's Brain" may have a few thoughts on the subject as well.....
can I haz your stuffs? :rolleyes:
With respect, if you feel that its "Unimportant" then why rant it so we feel TRIBBLE for something you clearly dislike?, could you have had a say in being born to be a motoring Fan or Sto Fan?
So lets put aside this matter, because were here to play Startrek online and you and all others, differences considered are in Faith Friends. Peace and long life.
If one of those characters was a man instead of them both being women, you'd not be here ********. That makes you a bigot.
At least have the decency to be honest with yourself.
Props to this guy.