His logic isn't spurious at all. The event is suppose to reward play DURING the event. Stockpiling marks defeats that purpose. Just because you don't LIKE the purpose doesn't mean it doesn't logically follow.
The unfortunate copy/paste from previous events aside, this tempest in a tea cup is really just so much "who moved my cheese."
Your statement of 'ANOTHER dev behind a sock account' is fairly self explanatory. And I might look silly, (I often do, I go out wearing a fez or Stetson (or both) occasionally), but you look like someone who's very very grumpy and unhappy, yet refuses to leave the game and forum they hate. Self-flagellation is not attractive.
Uninstalled the game yesterday making me even happier know. Care to make up any more stories that make you look like the back end of Hannah Montana? That's where you might find your fez.
Uninstalled the game yesterday making me even happier know. Care to make up any more stories that make you look like the back end of Hannah Montana? That's where you might find your fez.
Then why are you still here? You don't play the game, so why hang out in the forums? Nothing better to do? Just want to spread your misery? No-one else will have you?
I agree with him 100% and im not a developer,what's the matter anyone that doesnt agree to join you on your whine and cheese festival is a developer?
And some will disagree with you 100% as well...to each its own.
Remember for some the moon is still made up of cheese and some will be here following a dead MMO till servers shut down and happy no matter with PWE like a cult...some see extreme grinding until you bleed from eyes or urethra as pure...ECSTASY!!! good luck...nothing to see and move on :eek:
Uninstalled the game yesterday making me even happier know. Care to make up any more stories that make you look like the back end of Hannah Montana? That's where you might find your fez.
His logic isn't spurious at all. The event is suppose to reward play DURING the event. Stockpiling marks defeats that purpose. Just because you don't LIKE the purpose doesn't mean it doesn't logically follow.
The unfortunate copy/paste from previous events aside, this tempest in a tea cup is really just so much "who moved my cheese."
If that had been ALL he said, then you might have a point. However, the spurious logic in question is his followup in claiming that this action was meant specifically for "making mark conversion projects valid and valuable all the time." This implies that they are neither valid nor valuable during non-bonus periods. While some may consider there to be an undesirable opportunity cost for doing them outside such periods, they still reward just as much dilithium as they otherwise would.
Of course, going back to the "play" issue, that's just another instance of the dev team trying to force players to play the way the devs want, or face a penalty.
If that had been ALL he said, then you might have a point. However, the spurious logic in question is his followup in claiming that this action was meant specifically for "making mark conversion projects valid and valuable all the time." This implies that they are neither valid nor valuable during non-bonus periods. While some may consider there to be an undesirable opportunity cost for doing them outside such periods, they still reward just as much dilithium as they otherwise would.
Judging from people's behaviour (a.k.a. metrics) it would seem that a lot of people considered the normal turn-in rewards non-valuable, if not non-valid. While IDK if this is a GREAT change per se (It's a nerf, after all, even if it is just fixing something unbalanced), it isn't evil.
Of course, going back to the "play" issue, that's just another instance of the dev team trying to force players to play the way the devs want, or face a penalty.
No, they're forcing people to play, period. Most actual content aside from patrols and episode replays rewards a decent amount of Dil, so it's not like we're being funneled into Delta patrols again... And seeing as the whole point of a Dil Weekend is getting people to play, it's not entirely unreasonable.
Preordered the Digital Deluxe Edition and been here since launch so keep your wrong assumptions to yourself....now i wont lie and say ive been here the whole time,been in and out but please spew your venom elsewhere...
The only one spewing venom are you and your butt-buddies. You may have been here since launch but you have nothing to contribute. It's time to let the adults talk here.
The thing is - the marks turnin did motivate me to play. The dilithium events are the only time I grind like a true gamer across all dil-earning aspects of the game - good 12 hours a day. And this is so I don't have to for the next 3 months.
So what I'm doing is pretending the marks are still worthwhile and sliding them away. It's fun!
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The only one spewing venom are you and your butt-buddies. You may have been here since launch but you have nothing to contribute. It's time to let the adults talk here.
His logic isn't spurious at all. The event is suppose to reward play DURING the event. Stockpiling marks defeats that purpose. Just because you don't LIKE the purpose doesn't mean it doesn't logically follow.
People who say that the worst trolls on these forums are those who have complaints about the game need to have a nice thorough read of this thread.
I'd say that both sides - And I include myself are pretty bad. But as this thread has degenerated into nothing more than name calling, I'm sure it'll be locked soon, so that'll shut us all up.
Then why are you still here? You don't play the game, so why hang out in the forums? Nothing better to do? Just want to spread your misery? No-one else will have you?
For some of us, the forums are a better place for entertainment than the game itself. No need to be a douche.
Well, personally the rep dil nerf didn't affect me much. I can barely stand the STFs enough to get my three toons to T5 in all the reps plus getting cutting beam and a few other nice pieces using the "reaching T5 rewards", let alone spend the ungodly amount of time it must take to save up marks for a dil weekend...
That being said this was an underhanded, sneaky trick by Cryptic and I would have turned in the few spare marks I do have. Reminds me a great deal of a bait and switch trick. Even if it was a mistake they advertised a promised reward for months, so players saved up for months. Then to have it denied to them after the event went live-the only information about this nerf in the form of a sneak-edit in the blog is appalling behaviour to customers.
Personally I think Cryptic should make good on their promise just for this weekend whilst making it clear the next one will be nerfed. However, I'm going to take the high road on this one and accept Mr Ricossa's apology and offer of appeasement. I'm going to give him a fair shake. But I will be watching closely over the upcoming months though.
So Mr Ricossa if you're reading this, I accept your apology and the extended "dilithium week" is appreciated.
Well if Cryptic/PWE wants me to play in ONE particular way, ffs why don't THEY log in for me, and QUE me to the content THEY want, and turn in marks "proper;y" and have me use whatever "as intended" ffs.
"We saw people being efficient with their payouts so we're taking it away." Heaven forbid we plan ahead!!! We had to do without that Dil for all this time. It's like cashing in a savings bond and then the gov't saying "too many people have been casing them in...no ROI for you."
While I applaud that there is at least a somewhat more timely response, the logic used to explain away the removal of the bonuses seems spurious at best. This seems not unlike a retail chain noticing that sales of a certain item are rather poor except when it is discounted. Rather than either reducing the price overall or seeking some other solution, they just declare that it will never be discounted, stating that it is thus more worthwhile to buy all the time.
Yup, they forget the saying "the sale price becomes the expected price".
Last few Dil Weekends I spammed the daily rep bonus missions on all my toons. I could make 700k - 800k Dil. Now, I'm not even going to bother doing those rep missions and just let my marks pile up. So not sure how no bonus makes more Dil unless they make the Dil reward worth the effort.
Sometimes I think I play STO just to have something to complain about on the forums.
Ok here is the thing... a lot of what they do these days is just Chicken Excrement.
There is already a dilithium gate. You can only convert 8000 a day. So whether I get 100 or 1000 or 10000 dilith for a reward I will have a constant rate of 8000 a day - and then only on days you log in.
Just like reducing mark rewards in STFs by 10. I mean does anyone really care a 10 marks one way or the other. It was just a needless chicken excrement thing to do.
There is already a dilithium gate. You can only convert 8000 a day. So whether I get 100 or 1000 or 10000 dilith for a reward I will have a constant rate of 8000 a day - and then only on days you log in.
I refined over 40k dil yesterday. I'll hit 48k today. It's 8k per character, and you can use the dil exchange to pass refined dil between characters.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Well, at least he was honest. We now know that their goal is for each player to earn their Dilithium as slow and painful as possible.
What I dont understand is why would it matter? Its not like we could use the Dilithium right away.
We still need to wait for it to be converted in order for us to use it.
That's it right there. They want to slow down the process.
They want the process as arduous as possible, no saving marks for conversion, players will have to spend more time in the game at the time of Cryptic's choosing, re-grinding chosen content over and over again to get any bonus.
no work arounds, They want us good and frustrated, so that we just give up and spend more money.
It's their sandbox, we only play in it.
So Cryptic's again, turning the screws. Tightening up every little reward the game offers, nerfing this and that one. This is the trend lately. Oh well. :rolleyes:
Sooner or later we're all gonna have to make a personal decision as to whether we feel the game has any more entertainment value left after all these "refinements".
Judging from people's behaviour (a.k.a. metrics) it would seem that a lot of people considered the normal turn-in rewards non-valuable, if not non-valid. While IDK if this is a GREAT change per se (It's a nerf, after all, even if it is just fixing something unbalanced), it isn't evil.
This change is entirely about the metrics.
The reason players saving marks for turning in during the bonus weekend is so unsettling to them is because the massive wave of turn-ins during that weekend generates a major distortion in their metrics.
I don't even think it has anything to do with the economic consequences of the extra dilithium this behavior created. It is entirely about spikes in their metrics that are difficult to defend to their Chinese overlords.
The optimistic outlook on all of this is that by removing that distortion in their metrics, they'll be looking to run bonus events more often.
The pessimistic outlook is that they'll just move on to nerfing the next spike in the metrics, and they'll grow adept at floating spontaneous bonus events to compensate for intentional ninja nerfs.
Personally, I hate metric development, but it's the only thing which translates across the language barriers.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Pretty much this .
Both Cryptic and their white knights seem to have a problem with player ROI .
While each have their own reasons for this opposition , I have little doubt that some of the white knights just enjoy parroting Cryptic , as you didn't hear them making a fuss about this a week ago .
The thing is - the marks turnin did motivate me to play. The dilithium events are the only time I grind like a true gamer across all dil-earning aspects of the game - good 12 hours a day. And this is so I don't have to for the next 3 months.
See I think that this latest nerf has more to do with the attitude above then with actual Dill awards .
The supposition that after a Dil weekend I'm done chasing Dil is the one that I think prompted this nerf .
As I see it, the number of ppl who have left due to the best expansion ever is starting to show a strain on Cryptic , who NEED you to be in the game and entertain the Whales .
Thus if they nerf your Dil, they put pressure on you to be in the game more .
And that is their current objective .
... the Whales must be entertaind ..., Cryptic commands it !!!
See I think that this latest nerf has more to do with the attitude above then with actual Dill awards .
The supposition that after a Dil weekend I'm done chasing Dil is the one that I think prompted this nerf .
As I see it, the number of ppl who have left due to the best expansion ever is starting to show a strain on Cryptic , who NEED you to be in the game and entertain the Whales .
Thus if they nerf your Dil, they put pressure on you to be in the game more .
And that is their current objective .
... the Whales must be entertained ..., Cryptic commands it !!!
Like the poster you quoted, I too actually felt like playing and doing content during this event.
However, after this nerf I completely lost interest in playing, I just cant get myself to log in and play anymore.
I would be very surprised if there are not others who feel the same way and have left for the same reason.
So Cryptic will have lost a number of "entertainers" for their "Whales".
The more Cryptic does with the game the more I get the impression that they are deliberately strangling the game and trying kill it in time for when their license expires. perhaps even before.
Comments
The unfortunate copy/paste from previous events aside, this tempest in a tea cup is really just so much "who moved my cheese."
Uninstalled the game yesterday making me even happier know. Care to make up any more stories that make you look like the back end of Hannah Montana? That's where you might find your fez.
Then why are you still here? You don't play the game, so why hang out in the forums? Nothing better to do? Just want to spread your misery? No-one else will have you?
And some will disagree with you 100% as well...to each its own.
Remember for some the moon is still made up of cheese and some will be here following a dead MMO till servers shut down and happy no matter with PWE like a cult...some see extreme grinding until you bleed from eyes or urethra as pure...ECSTASY!!! good luck...nothing to see and move on :eek:
BYE!! Who did you give your stuff to?
If that had been ALL he said, then you might have a point. However, the spurious logic in question is his followup in claiming that this action was meant specifically for "making mark conversion projects valid and valuable all the time." This implies that they are neither valid nor valuable during non-bonus periods. While some may consider there to be an undesirable opportunity cost for doing them outside such periods, they still reward just as much dilithium as they otherwise would.
Of course, going back to the "play" issue, that's just another instance of the dev team trying to force players to play the way the devs want, or face a penalty.
The only one spewing venom are you and your butt-buddies. You may have been here since launch but you have nothing to contribute. It's time to let the adults talk here.
Free Tibet!
So what I'm doing is pretending the marks are still worthwhile and sliding them away. It's fun!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Well said, brother.
Again, stockpiling claims.
Am I an "EC Hoarder"?
Free Tibet!
I'd say that both sides - And I include myself are pretty bad. But as this thread has degenerated into nothing more than name calling, I'm sure it'll be locked soon, so that'll shut us all up.
To change the way something has been done for years with no warning. Bad form Cryptic.
For some of us, the forums are a better place for entertainment than the game itself. No need to be a douche.
That being said this was an underhanded, sneaky trick by Cryptic and I would have turned in the few spare marks I do have. Reminds me a great deal of a bait and switch trick. Even if it was a mistake they advertised a promised reward for months, so players saved up for months. Then to have it denied to them after the event went live-the only information about this nerf in the form of a sneak-edit in the blog is appalling behaviour to customers.
Personally I think Cryptic should make good on their promise just for this weekend whilst making it clear the next one will be nerfed. However, I'm going to take the high road on this one and accept Mr Ricossa's apology and offer of appeasement. I'm going to give him a fair shake. But I will be watching closely over the upcoming months though.
So Mr Ricossa if you're reading this, I accept your apology and the extended "dilithium week" is appreciated.
"We saw people being efficient with their payouts so we're taking it away." Heaven forbid we plan ahead!!! We had to do without that Dil for all this time. It's like cashing in a savings bond and then the gov't saying "too many people have been casing them in...no ROI for you."
Seriously Cryptic: Just f'in log in for me ffs.
Yup, they forget the saying "the sale price becomes the expected price".
Last few Dil Weekends I spammed the daily rep bonus missions on all my toons. I could make 700k - 800k Dil. Now, I'm not even going to bother doing those rep missions and just let my marks pile up. So not sure how no bonus makes more Dil unless they make the Dil reward worth the effort.
There is already a dilithium gate. You can only convert 8000 a day. So whether I get 100 or 1000 or 10000 dilith for a reward I will have a constant rate of 8000 a day - and then only on days you log in.
Just like reducing mark rewards in STFs by 10. I mean does anyone really care a 10 marks one way or the other. It was just a needless chicken excrement thing to do.
I refined over 40k dil yesterday. I'll hit 48k today. It's 8k per character, and you can use the dil exchange to pass refined dil between characters.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
That's it right there. They want to slow down the process.
They want the process as arduous as possible, no saving marks for conversion, players will have to spend more time in the game at the time of Cryptic's choosing, re-grinding chosen content over and over again to get any bonus.
no work arounds, They want us good and frustrated, so that we just give up and spend more money.
It's their sandbox, we only play in it.
So Cryptic's again, turning the screws. Tightening up every little reward the game offers, nerfing this and that one. This is the trend lately. Oh well. :rolleyes:
Sooner or later we're all gonna have to make a personal decision as to whether we feel the game has any more entertainment value left after all these "refinements".
The reason players saving marks for turning in during the bonus weekend is so unsettling to them is because the massive wave of turn-ins during that weekend generates a major distortion in their metrics.
I don't even think it has anything to do with the economic consequences of the extra dilithium this behavior created. It is entirely about spikes in their metrics that are difficult to defend to their Chinese overlords.
The optimistic outlook on all of this is that by removing that distortion in their metrics, they'll be looking to run bonus events more often.
The pessimistic outlook is that they'll just move on to nerfing the next spike in the metrics, and they'll grow adept at floating spontaneous bonus events to compensate for intentional ninja nerfs.
Personally, I hate metric development, but it's the only thing which translates across the language barriers.
Pretty much this .
Both Cryptic and their white knights seem to have a problem with player ROI .
While each have their own reasons for this opposition , I have little doubt that some of the white knights just enjoy parroting Cryptic , as you didn't hear them making a fuss about this a week ago .
... your lack of originality desturbs me CDF ...
See I think that this latest nerf has more to do with the attitude above then with actual Dill awards .
The supposition that after a Dil weekend I'm done chasing Dil is the one that I think prompted this nerf .
As I see it, the number of ppl who have left due to the best expansion ever is starting to show a strain on Cryptic , who NEED you to be in the game and entertain the Whales .
Thus if they nerf your Dil, they put pressure on you to be in the game more .
And that is their current objective .
... the Whales must be entertaind ..., Cryptic commands it !!!
Like the poster you quoted, I too actually felt like playing and doing content during this event.
However, after this nerf I completely lost interest in playing, I just cant get myself to log in and play anymore.
I would be very surprised if there are not others who feel the same way and have left for the same reason.
So Cryptic will have lost a number of "entertainers" for their "Whales".
The more Cryptic does with the game the more I get the impression that they are deliberately strangling the game and trying kill it in time for when their license expires. perhaps even before.