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Dilithium nerf, official response

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    You can't use "players naturally realized that and exploited it" and "they didn't do anything wrong by that" in the same sentence. :) If you admit they did nothing wrong, then it's not an exploit.
    Players didn't do anything wrong by turning in marks for dil during the dil event. At the same time, the devs didn't do anything wrong by changing the parameters of the event. Really guys, there are actual problems with the game that need attention as opposed to this dil event change.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Players didn't do anything wrong by turning in marks for dil during the dil event. At the same time, the devs didn't do anything wrong by changing the parameters of the event. Really guys, there are actual problems with the game that need attention as opposed to this dil event change.

    Actually, I beg to differ. The latest Dilithium nerf is indicative of an overall trend to cut ingame rewards across the board (and label everyone trying to play smart a exploiter of sorts). That, in itself, really *is* starting to become a problem when, at the same time, monetization has increased tenfold. The two are related, of course.

    But if they want to go ahead and fix the loadout system instead, sure, I won't stop 'em.
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  • js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Coming next month - threads with amazing titles such as:

    "You Filthy Contraband Hoarders"

    "People Who Have Been Flying The Same Ship for Two Years Are Hurting The Game"

    "Where's My T6 Miranda?"

    I really can't wait.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
  • tinead51tinead51 Member Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    The only thing that seems to escape you is that it was not a problem , until the Dev's decided to call it a problem .
    And this is not a one off turn in labeling by the Devs .

    Tour of the Galaxy ?
    Suddenly the players were earning too much .

    Japori ?
    Suddenly the players were "exploiting" a system that was there to be used by players for 5 years .

    Foundry "clicky" missions ?
    Were in the game for what ... 2 , 2.5 years before they were deemed the most horrible thing since ... whatever .

    Old Mirror Invasion ?
    "Suddenly" we were leveling too fast .

    And the list goes on .

    In short , it's not a problem until Cryptic say it's a problem , and outside of the Japori case , it's usually a feature that existed over a year at least , usually a lot longer then that .

    Well said, couldn't agree more.
  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Actually, I beg to differ. The latest Dilithium nerf is indicative of an overall trend to cut ingame rewards across the board (and label everyone trying to play smart a exploiter of sorts). That, in itself, really *is* starting to become a problem when, at the same time, monetization has increased tenfold. The two are related, of course.

    But if they want to go ahead and fix the loadout system instead, sure, I won't stop 'em.

    Everything that you have just said is your opinion. Plus, monetizing increasing 10 fold is an exaggeration but I understand your point. There is nothing inherently wrong with them changing how events work. I was looking forward to turning in 40,000 marks for 600,000 dilithium. When I realized that the bonus was removed, I shrugged. I can still get 400,000 dilithium for those marks. I do agree with an earlier poster though, that it would be nice if the marks turn in project was changed to allow for turning in more marks at once. But if they don't change that, guess what? It's ok. It's just a game.
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • aoax10aoax10 Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jermbot wrote: »
    Wow, you have such an active imagination. One day you'll learn to put that creative mind to use. Really, you'd be a fine scientist if you could learn how to turn these fantasies into testable hypothesis. On the other hand, you'd also need to learn how to cope when your hypothesis was proven wrong. Maybe becoming a painter would be more fulfilling. Or a fanfiction writer?

    *hands you a tissue*
  • aoax10aoax10 Member Posts: 271 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    js26568 wrote: »
    After studying this thread closely I've come to the conclusion that people who SUDDENLY think that turning in Reputation marks during a Dilithium Bonus weekend is an Exploit are just trolls and not worth bothering with.

    Not a single one of you was complaining about this issue until Cryptic made it the Monster Of The Week.

    Why don't you try and form your own opinions occasionally and knock off the pathetic trolling?

    I agree, it does get rather dull. *yawn*
  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    you cant say that without knowing how much dilithium i refine every day on a regular basis, besides if they were that worried about people having loads of dilithium ore they would cap how much you can earn each day rather then how much you can refine plus they would not be having regular dilithium weekends with 50% bonus dilithium, but they know it does not matter how much ore you have, the thing that is important to the exchange is how much you can refine each day, hence the refine cap.
    thats why they never give you a 50% refine cap increase during the dilithium weekends.

    also in your statement you are assuming i would either (a) exchange the dilithium for zen or (b) buy zen to exchange for dilithium cos i cant wait to earn it in game, when in actual fact i will do neither and i am sure that is true of most players, with all the things that require dilithium like upgrading and crafting a lot of players will use the extra dilithium in game.

    ok lets assume i will convert my stash of marks to dil and use it on the exchange, say 10k of marks devided by 50 and times by 750 is 150k of dil at arround 150 dil to 1zen (last i looked) thats about 1000 zen thats hardly going to break the bank when you see how much zen&dil is changing hands on the exchange every day.

    Yep, agreed, but frankly, I'm not sure why this change came about myself and the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cryptic have noticed it somehow affects the dilithium market...

    Otherwise, I can see no reason to change this...
    js26568 wrote: »
    After studying this thread closely I've come to the conclusion that people who SUDDENLY think that turning in Reputation marks during a Dilithium Bonus weekend is an Exploit are just trolls and not worth bothering with.

    Not a single one of you was complaining about this issue until Cryptic made it the Monster Of The Week.

    Why don't you try and form your own opinions occasionally and knock off the pathetic trolling?

    So, in other words, anyone who has a differing opinion is a troll... Congratulations, you win the interwebs...

    Have you stopped to consider that no one really had an opinion on this matter, until it became the 'Monster of the Month' as you put it? Once it was put into the spotlight people would inevitably share their opinion, and those who did not already have an opinion on the matter, would form one...

    Because you cannot refute what many are saying in the opposing camp, you simply try and dismiss them by calling them a troll... Perhaps you should actually come up with a valid argument as to why Cryptic were wrong to make this change, outside of trying to claim they robbed you, or some variation on this...
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • stoatheiststoatheist Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    aoax10 wrote: »
    *hands you a tissue*

    Give him the whole box. lol Every time he spews nonsense a tree dies.
    js26568 wrote:
    After studying this thread closely I've come to the conclusion that people who SUDDENLY think that turning in Reputation marks during a Dilithium Bonus weekend is an Exploit are just trolls and not worth bothering with.

    Not a single one of you was complaining about this issue until Cryptic made it the Monster Of The Week.

    Why don't you try and form your own opinions occasionally and knock off the pathetic trolling?

    I agree as well.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    imruined wrote: »
    Yep, agreed, but frankly, I'm not sure why this change came about myself and the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cryptic have noticed it somehow affects the dilithium market...

    Otherwise, I can see no reason to change this...

    I can see another reason very clearly: nerf every bit of ingame reward, so ppl will buy Zen/Dilithium with real-life money.

    Way I see it, about a year ago, when the decision was made to monetize everything, along came the word, from above, to nerf every ingame reward along with it: the two go hand-in-hand. And they've been doing so consistently ever since, constant as the Nothern Star.
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    This content has been removed.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    reyan01 wrote: »
    Yeah - since I steadfastly stick to my FT5-U Rhode Island 95% of the time (on my main) I need to be nerfed!

    I can already see it happen! :)"By not letting you fly the same ship all the time, we are making other ships valid and valuable all the time, not just your main ship."
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  • jermbotjermbot Member Posts: 801 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Essentially, Cryptic doesn't want you to play smart.

    I can't disagree more with the implication that waiting until a dilithium reward weekend required intelligence or was in any way 'smart.'
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I can already see it happen! :)"By not letting you fly the same ship all the time, we are making other ships valid and valuable all the time, not just your main ship."

    Well it's bound to happen shortly: T7 ships...

    Might as well get used to our T5 ships (whatever variant) becoming severely outdated... With the positive reception of T6 ships, the doors are opened for T7, then T8 and so on.

    Thats also the key behind the "dil nerf" as it's called here: People are more than satisfied with the removal of something that has been key, especially for smaller fleets and people who don't have too much time to play, so it opens the doors for further removals.

    And there are plenty of places they can reduce dil income:

    Rewards (obvious)
    Contraband
    Duty Officer projects
    Foundry

    Just to name a few... The mines are probably next though.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I can see another reason very clearly: nerf every bit of ingame reward, so ppl will buy Zen/Dilithium with real-life money.

    Way I see it, about a year ago, when the decision was made to monetize everything, along came the word, from above, to nerf every ingame reward along with it: the two go hand-in-hand. And they've been doing so consistently ever since, constant as the Nothern Star.

    Well, if this were true why leave other easy avenues for dilithium open? Cryptic could have removed contraband hand-in with the Doff UI revamp for example...

    The difference being those other avenues are all part of 'regular' gameplay and working as intended... It does kinda make sense and seems to fall in-line with what I took away from Gecko's statements in the latest P1 podcast...

    If nothing else, it has to be considered that people stockpiling marks for the dilithium weekend, as people did mark boxes for the bonus mark weekends, are not practices that Cryptic initially intended, regardless of whether it took them 2 days, or 2 years to address it, they obviously saw the flow-on effects and decided it wasn't what they initially had intended for it...

    I have to agree though that Cryptic have only made the reception of these changes worse by allowing them to go on for so long without any indication it may change, or making clear it was an unintentional byproduct of how the events were changed...
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

    not_funny_Q_shadows_small.jpg
  • captainsucrecaptainsucre Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Essentially, Cryptic doesn't want you to play smart. The bottom line is that Cryptic wants you to spend haphazardly, daily, and with your mind on zero. That way, by the time you really want the latest and shiniest, you'll be broke, and will press that 'Buy Zen' button. Anything that has you be proficient, in your ingame economic affairs, is thus deemed 'exploitative' nowadays. Like collecting XP in the best places, or doing missions that pay out good Marks (recent cca-nerf, anyone?). And yes, I find this new trend very disturbing; and insulting to boot.

    "Play smart! . . . but not smarter than us."
  • sharxtremesharxtreme Member Posts: 850 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    You got the word right, you have the context wrong.

    In the context of a video game " exploit " means to cheat. Plain and simple. No one that has been gaming for any amount of times on line sees anything else when they hear Exploit. When talking about a video game people are not saying "good on you for exploiting the best of your abilities" they are saying "this is cheating".

    So Developers have to be careful when they throw the word around... as should other players. In general calling anyone a cheat is looking to pick a fight. For instance a few months ago when Cryptic decided they didn't like a game mechanic. (that had existed in the game since the first year of the game "That higher level teamed players would be rewarded extra for helping there lower level friends" and yes that was intended when it was added by the developer that added it. They threw out the word Exploit... and there by called a ton of players cheats. They where also talking about anyone that played the game and used that game mechanic and where not even around for Delta. It was sickening and annoyed many long time gamers and STO players. (it would be no different then someone 3/4 through a board game changing a rule and then yelling at the guy across the table for cheating cause they followed the rule for the first 3/4 of the game)

    Fast forward to know... and people (perhaps not Cryptic this time, they have skirted calling anything the "exploit" word.) are throwing around the game label of Cheat on people that where simply waiting as meimeitoo has pointed out a sale. As there is little difference between holding some marks for the D weekend then there would be in only buying keys when they where on sale. Perhaps Cryptic should discontinue all Key sales as it discourages sales of keys when there not.

    Exactly. Cryptic calling players that played missions, same as they did for several years, exploiters, was outrageous.
    We all know what Exploit means in video games.
    Exploit would NOT be getting more XP with team in missions because it was intended that way, exploit in video games means to use a bug or glitch, or unintended bonus from combination of certain parameters to your advantage.
    Like for example in STO using certain Embassy Plasma DoT consoles in combination with Beam consoles to get enormous plasma DoT stacking, or to boost FBP with beam consoles, or to get suck in ceiling in PvP map and kill people while no one can kill you.
    There are many examples.

    What is mind boggling is how many... hmmm, what should i call them, suddenly aprove of nerfing XP gain, Dilithium nerf, and are calling long time players names like hoarders, exploiters, cheaters and what not.

    Shame on you.

    And as for Cryptic, well, they really can't allow themselves to go against large player base which did nothing wrong.
    Going against players is going against your own game.

    You can't take something positive away, especially something that was in game so long or since the start and expect positive reactions.
  • supergirl1611supergirl1611 Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Watch out a new nerf's coming soon ! err... i mean identifed exploits, as nerfs don't exist. Its the players fault using the system laid out in front of them :)

    Dilithium Mining claims are next to be changed. They were not being used as intended as players were hoarding them and using them on the dil weekend to gain a higher rate of dilithium than our metrics counted for. These can no longer like marks be used to gain a bonus during the event.

    Voth battlezone already pays out a generous amount going forward the V-rex fight and dailies will no longer be part of the bonus, only the reward for capturing a point.

    If you want to make the most of the dil weekends in the future, join the empty queues and wait for them to pop (snoring is optional during the wait.)

    I wonder if these changes came into effect what defense the Whiteknights would use in Cryptics favour. (Not trying to give Cryptic any ideas here but on current track record you can just see one of these being next to get the Exploit tag and changed)
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I don't think there will be any improvements made to the dilithium mines as these are a lockbox product.

    I think duty officer and contraband will come next with the changes to sector space.
    I would expect a major adjustment to doff exp. as well.

    Rewards may stay the same or go up slightly, though I would not be surprised to see mark turnin value cut in half.

    I'm not sure about foundry.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    I'm not sure about foundry.

    Remove the dilithium from Foundry missions and you remove a very large reason to play them personally... I find far too many delve into the realms of just being really bad Trek FanFiction, FanFic that adds nothing to the plot of the actual episode and would have been better without it...
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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  • bobbydazlersbobbydazlers Member Posts: 4,534 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    it just seems to me sometimes that they keep on bringing in more and more things for us to spend dilithium on then make it harder and harder to earn the stuff.

    you only need to look at fleet projects to see how each time there is a fresh one added all the things that are needed to fill the project get filled within a day or less yet dilithium takes weeks to fill or even months to fill in smaller fleets.

    When I think about everything we've been through together,

    maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,

     and if that journey takes a little longer,

    so we can do something we all believe in,

     I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.

  • shadowwraith77shadowwraith77 Member Posts: 6,395 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    Actually, I beg to differ. The latest Dilithium nerf is indicative of an overall trend to cut ingame rewards across the board (and label everyone trying to play smart a exploiter of sorts). That, in itself, really *is* starting to become a problem when, at the same time, monetization has increased tenfold. The two are related, of course.

    But if they want to go ahead and fix the loadout system instead, sure, I won't stop 'em.

    Exactly, we here at Cryptic, cannot have our player(s) being too efficient, now can we?

    Oh and btw, the loadout system is functioning for me pretty well but, here's the kicker!

    When it removes your boff from the stations, go into the loadout section and, click on the saved loadout you wish to use, as this will at most times not actually put them in the stations directly but, if you do this first, than go to stations tab, it tends to than automatically assign their stations accordingly and place assigned skills in their corresponding slots.

    Has been working 100% for me thus far!
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    Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!

  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Exactly, we here at Cryptic, cannot have our player(s) being too efficient, now can we?

    Oh and btw, the loadout system is functioning for me pretty well but, here's the kicker!

    When it removes your boff from the stations, go into the loadout section and, click on the saved loadout you wish to use, as this will at most times not actually put them in the stations directly but, if you do this first, than go to stations tab, it tends to than automatically assign their stations accordingly and place assigned skills in their corresponding slots.

    Has been working 100% for me thus far!

    That's a good tip! Thx! :)
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Dear Mister Ricossa,

    I’m grateful to report that this nerf as well as the misinformation of your blog has far less consequences than I originally feared. Even without mark bonus my turn ins as well as other, none exploitative, activities lead to a unrefined Dilithium sum up over the weekend of about 2,7 million spread over 8 toons. Thanks to extended event till Thursday I’m optimistic to end up in the 3 – 3,2 million range not having to play your game till early April.

    The more nerfs you guys at Cryptic and/or PWE unleash the more stuff simply seems to slip by you.

    In deep respect of your ongoing efforts.

    - Connor
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • bansheedragonbansheedragon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Players didn't do anything wrong by turning in marks for dil during the dil event. At the same time, the devs didn't do anything wrong by changing the parameters of the event. Really guys, there are actual problems with the game that need attention as opposed to this dil event change.
    Then why were not those problems addressed instead of changing something that was working fine?

    Ever since the DR release there has been one nerf or change after another, to things that was working just fine and didnt need to be "fixed", with litte to no attention to the actual problems in the game.

    The current pattern strongly indicates that they have litte interest in fixing things that need fixing unless it somehow affects their bottom line, while at the same time trying to find more ways to monetize one feature after another in a greedy attempt at trying to milk as much money out of the players as possible.
  • bansheedragonbansheedragon Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    jermbot wrote: »
    I can't disagree more with the implication that waiting until a dilithium reward weekend required intelligence or was in any way 'smart.'
    I see, so saving up and waiting for the best time to get the most benefit for something is not smart or intelligent then?
    That would imply that everyone doing so in real life are not smart or intelligent by doing the very same thing there.

    You will want to rethink what it is you are saying here, because it can actually be construed as an insult towards peoples intelligence
  • raeatraeat Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    In the mind of the white knight, smart means somehow intuiting what is in the best interests of Craptic (with deliberately hidden information) and against our own interests, and doing and thinking where that leads instead...

    The white knight is just the bitter forumite to be (who's slower than the rest of us). Soon they'll be in our camp.
  • imruinedimruined Member Posts: 1,457 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    raeat wrote: »
    In the mind of the white knight, smart means somehow intuiting what is in the best interests of Craptic (with deliberately hidden information) and against our own interests, and doing and thinking where that leads instead...

    The white knight is just the bitter forumite to be (who's slower than the rest of us). Soon they'll be in our camp.

    LMFAO! What absolute tripe...
    raeat wrote: »
    ... own interests ...

    And this is the entire crux of your bitterness... Cryptic have taken something away from you, something that was FREE, something that had no intrinsic value...

    You're berating Cryptic, and anyone who disagrees with you, whether they are truly 'white knighting' or simply sharing a more rational opinion than your own hyperbolic rants, all because of your own self interest...

    This is entirely about the fact you're not getting as much as you want and you don't like it... So now you're trying to portray yourself as some hero of the people, fighting against the evil Big Developer in some David and Goliath struggle, and those of us who don't take your point of view are just too stupid to know what's going on...

    Firstly, you're not gonna win any supporters like that, no one who disagrees with you is gonna change their mind when you paint them as some ignoramus who should know better, especially when you fail to supply a shred of evidence supporting your stance... And no, bloated hyperbole and anecdotes, do not constitute evidence...

    For a change, why don't you actually present a rational statement, outlining some solid arguments as to why and how Cryptic have over stepped their authority as the developers of STO, by removing the bonus dilithium from mark conversion, rather than the usual hyperbolic venom that you normally post?
    The entitlement is strong in these forums...

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