If my Terran captain had his way, he'd have glassed Kobali Prime as reprisal for the Kobali's lying,deception and the fact they started the war with the Vaadwaur.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Reducing the Kobali home world to a glassed surface is the easiest and most efficient solution
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Where was the last time I heard that? Oh, right. Adolf Schicklegruber. Who killed more than 6 million people and tried to take over the world.
Before that, it was this jerk in Zulu Dawn who intentionally provoked a war with the Zulus because he saw them as savages to be eliminated.
My captain is not Federation, he's from the mirror universe, The Kobali have lied to the alliance and used them from day one to help them in a war that is not in Starfleet's interest.
As for Zulu Dawn, that war did not go so well for the British at the start, Isandlwana ring a bell?
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Reducing the Kobali home world to a glassed surface is the easiest and most efficient solution
Except that it would appear that this is not in fact the world of origin for the Kobali, but rather a former Vaadwaur colony - at least, I can't think of any reason why the Vaad would put stasis storage for their personnel on a world they didn't control at the time.
So in retaliation for the Kobali starting a war, you just glassed a world with Vaadwaur stasis facilities. Congratulations, Captain - now the Vaadwaur are at war with us too!
Are you beginning to see where "hypocrisy" comes into the conversation yet?
My captain is not Federation, he's from the mirror universe
I dunno...he sounds an awful lot like one William Tecumseh Sherman, a racist monster who attempted genocide in the 19th century. He could easily be from the prime universe.
I dunno...he sounds an awful lot like one William Tecumseh Sherman, a racist monster who attempted genocide in the 19th century. He could easily be from the prime universe.
Sherman used scorched earth as a weapon, Sisko poisoned a planet's atmosphere as a demonstration and he got away with it.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
If my Terran captain had his way, he'd have glassed Kobali Prime as reprisal for the Kobali's lying,deception and the fact they started the war with the Vaadwaur.
I think it might be sufficient as a worst case to bomb them back out of the interstellar age after helping the Vaadwaur get their people back, and shoot anything that rises above a reasonable altitude for in-atmosphere air travel. I guess I have a problem with flat-out annihilating a species when they are comprised of individual versus hive minds, except in the narrowest of circumstances. Once you do it, ALL chance of repentance or rapprochement is gone forever, and if it WAS possible then I would be guilty of stealing it, so taking that step must be an *extreme* last resort.
(I am similarly not in favor of genocide against the Undine as we have proof that they are individuals and a minority of them are open to reason. It may be very dangerous to try to contact these individuals but I subscribe to the belief that if even one righteous person may be there, then if I take that life, I am guilty.)
This is especially true in my mind since I think willing donors could be located until a better solution can be found by or for the Kobali. In light of that I see no need to annihilate the species. Whether the donor numbers would be sufficient to keep the species viable...is not my problem and is incentive for the Kobali to find a better solution.
(As for cloning I seem to recall a Trek episode indicating that any tech the Feds might have is not viable on a sustained generational basis due to some sort of degeneration over time. So I don't think that particular pat solution is available.)
So my "worst case" involves a destruction of all space travel coupled with aggressive quarantine. I would try to avoid that necessity but if that failed--that's where I draw the line.
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I think it might be sufficient as a worst case to bomb them back out of the interstellar age after helping the Vaadwaur get their people back, and shoot anything that rises above a reasonable altitude for in-atmosphere air travel.
sounds a bit like what the new republic did to the yevetha at the end of the black fleet crisis
(As for cloning I seem to recall a Trek episode indicating that any tech the Feds might have is not viable on a sustained generational basis due to some sort of degeneration over time. So I don't think that particular pat solution is available.)
it had nothing to do with the tech not being viable, and everything to do with the fact that clones were being cloned, so replicative fading came into play after a certain amount of time
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Actually I see the Kobali situation as a Catch 22 situation.
The Vaudwaar won't stop attacking Kobali prime even if we or the Kobali themselves gave the stasis pods back. It wouldn't change their aggressive, highly millitaristic, quadrant-conquering ways. They would still be a big problem to everyone in the delta quadrant. If we gave the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of sleeping Vaudwaar back to their people then we'd only be making the problem bigger for ourselves as those Vaudwaar sleepers are turned into soldiers to turn on us.
In addition to that, those sleeping hostages are the only reason why the Vaudwaar haven't used their superior numbers, skill and tactics to take the Kobali city entirely.
But, the Kobali's "rebirth" process has a lot of problems too. Especially with how they treat the newly rebirthed. Truly they should keep the soon-to-be kobali unconscious until the transformation process has finished and explain everything clearly within one paragraph when they wake up. And of course give them choice if they wish to chase their former lives. The way they do it now is abominable.
That being said I don't have a problem with the taking of bodies and turning them into Kobali. When I die I'm either donating my organs and/or giving my body to science. I'd have no use for it afterall. But I am aware others do mind it. So asking permission is necessary for the Kobali.
Then of course the Kobali have lied to us repeatedly. Use us for their own ends in aiding in this fight. Those responsible for lying to us should be punished in a court of law for the Starfleet lives otherwise lost because of their lies.
The whole situation is a mess. But I guess the Kobali at least are on our side with ships, tech and numbers. They're more useful to us in the long run than trying to play nice with the Vaudwaar. It would be so much easier if the Vaudwaar could be negotiated with.
We know Gaul was intractable but are we 100% sure about Eldex? I don't think we can be. We know he is being "difficult" but that's as far as we know. So I won't write off the possibility of getting them to negotiate either--though in the Kobali case I think the Kobali need to allow verified pickup of the stasis tubes first.
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We know Gaul was intractable but are we 100% sure about Eldex? I don't think we can be. We know he is being "difficult" but that's as far as we know. So I won't write off the possibility of getting them to negotiate either--though in the Kobali case I think the Kobali need to allow verified pickup of the stasis tubes first.
In Eldex's defense, the Kobali did say they'd give the Vaadwaur back their people. And they've gone back on that promise. He's got a damn good reason to be angry and refuse to negotiate with these TRIBBLE.
In-game, Eldex strikes me as an honest man who is open and willing to negotiate in good faith. It's the Kobali who are the liars.
Gaul, of course, makes Hitler look like Mr. Rogers, so no point in even trying.
Yeah, and that's kind of what I was getting with Eldex in my own take on him--that he was not a total unreasoning brute. If he were, he would've offed the alien intruder on Kartelia when he could, and gone after the bluegill himself. Possibly gotten killed doing so but hatred is often not reasonable.
Hence the sense for me of almost "loss" from a plot standpoint when I didn't get the chance to speak with him again.
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Where was the last time I heard that? Oh, right. Adolf Schicklegruber. Who killed more than 6 million people and tried to take over the world.
Before that, it was this jerk in Zulu Dawn who intentionally provoked a war with the Zulus because he saw them as savages to be eliminated.
Neither of which compare to the brainwashing evil which the Kobali are guilty of... Personally, I'm all for just invoking the Prime Directive, saying 'not my mess to clear up, not getting involved...' I was just pointing out the criteria given for where the Prime Directive could be overlooked, don't necessarily go well for the Kobali (ie General Order 24) and lean more toward action against them... Any other kind of solution, simply isn't within the Federation's mandate to enforce or even administer... Given the Federation's history with the Cardassians, Klingons and Romulans, I'd encourage negotiation with the Vaadwaur with a view to future relations, and leave the Kobali to their innevitable eventual extinction...
Yeah, and that's kind of what I was getting with Eldex in my own take on him--that he was not a total unreasoning brute. If he were, he would've offed the alien intruder on Kartelia when he could, and gone after the bluegill himself. Possibly gotten killed doing so but hatred is often not reasonable.
Hence the sense for me of almost "loss" from a plot standpoint when I didn't get the chance to speak with him again.
Agreed 100%, this is spot-on and one of my biggest gripes with the DR storyline.
sounds a bit like what the new republic did to the yevetha at the end of the black fleet crisis
Haven't read those books...
it had nothing to do with the tech not being viable, and everything to do with the fact that clones were being cloned, so replicative fading came into play after a certain amount of time
This is the problem I was thinking of and it does make the tech nonviable for their problem. Given that the Kobali have no new births, if they ceased body-snatching, then I think within a certain number of generations they would run into the same issue and be back where they started, unless they were able to put an end to that problem.
That said I would worry that with their current ethics they would clone without donor consent--a problem I seem to recall from the episode that discussed cloning.
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You mean TNG: "Up the Long Ladder"? The one with the racist Irish stereotypes, the creepy forced breeding message at the end, and the message that was intended to be pro-choice but ended up being "it's OK for a man to force a woman to have an abortion", which is kind of beyond uncool. I mean, I'm a pro-choice guy myself, but there is no freaking way in any potential universe that it is EVER OK to force a woman to have or not have an abortion.
Sorry about the rant, but oh my Cthulhu that episode drove me insane with rage at the stupid and the implications.
I haven't seen that episode for many, many years and it sounds like that's a good thing. But I think that may be the one.
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I haven't seen that episode for many, many years and it sounds like that's a good thing. But I think that may be the one.
Yeah, it's from season 2, which makes it ultimately the fault of Maurice Hurley. And my Cthulhu was it bad.
To paraphrase Chuck "SFDebris" Sonnenburg, I'm pro-competence. If you disagree with me, I want an intelligent opponent, not some numbnuts who quote-mines Stephen Jay Gould, blatantly falsifies data (motherf***ing Alan Feduccia), or screams in my face that I'm "Pro-Death" and that I should go home and kill myself. If you agree with me, I want an intelligent, competent person who doesn't just spout buzzwords and hack apart crops while wearing a butterfly suit because they read a statistic from a paper out-of-context and never bothered to read the rest of the damn thing.
Because frankly, the thing that irritates me the most, isn't opposition, but incompetence.
Except for the whole killing your allies, if he can't get you to do it.
You've got Eldex confused with Gaul.
And can you really blame the Vaads for being bitter? The Kobali are using their dead to reproduce (the evidence indicates they do consider it sacrilegious, or something to that effect, to graverob) and the Turei were the ringleaders for their near-extinction, an event a huge percentage of the current population was alive for. And in the latter case they went well beyond what was actually necessary to achieve victory, glassing several planets and carpet-bombing civilians in an attempt to render the Vaadwaur extinct. And the other races, the Feds, Klinks, and Roms included, are helping them.
Just like with the Bajorans and the Cardassians back home. There's still a huge number of Bajorans who grew up in Cardassian concentration camps or fought in the Resistance, and logically aren't going to be Cardie-friendly even though a lot has changed in 40 years.
Honestly the fact that Eldex doesn't gun down your character in cold blood in "Dragon's Deceit" is a testament to his open-mindedness and moral fortitude. You're basically asking a Holocaust survivor not to be angry at the people who did the deed.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Yeah, it's from season 2, which makes it ultimately the fault of Maurice Hurley. And my Cthulhu was it bad.
To paraphrase Chuck "SFDebris" Sonnenburg, I'm pro-competence. If you disagree with me, I want an intelligent opponent, not some numbnuts who quote-mines Stephen Jay Gould, blatantly falsifies data (motherf***ing Alan Feduccia), or screams in my face that I'm "Pro-Death" and that I should go home and kill myself. If you agree with me, I want an intelligent, competent person who doesn't just spout buzzwords and hack apart crops while wearing a butterfly suit because they read a statistic from a paper out-of-context and never bothered to read the rest of the damn thing.
Because frankly, the thing that irritates me the most, isn't opposition, but incompetence.
Uh... Worffan, I've watched that episode several times and I don't remember there ever being anything remotely to do with abortion in it.
Uh... Worffan, I've watched that episode several times and I don't remember there ever being anything remotely to do with abortion in it.
They didn't say "abortion", but the showrunners confirmed that cloning the crew was supposed to be an analogy for an unwanted pregnancy (presumably by r*pe), making killing the clones abortion. They were trying to do a pro-choice aesop and completely screwed the pooch.
Basically it's the same type of deal as Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn "reassociating" as an analogy for homosexuality, except that one actually worked.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
They didn't say "abortion", but the showrunners confirmed that cloning the crew was supposed to be an analogy for an unwanted pregnancy (presumably by r*pe), making killing the clones abortion. They were trying to do a pro-choice aesop and completely screwed the pooch.
Basically it's the same type of deal as Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn "reassociating" as an analogy for homosexuality, except that one actually worked.
I really don't see how cloning = forced abortion...
If that was seriously what they were going for... they completely failed, because even having it explained to me I can't see the connection.
They didn't say "abortion", but the showrunners confirmed that cloning the crew was supposed to be an analogy for an unwanted pregnancy (presumably by r*pe), making killing the clones abortion. They were trying to do a pro-choice aesop and completely screwed the pooch.
Basically it's the same type of deal as Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn "reassociating" as an analogy for homosexuality, except that one actually worked.
Better analogy might be the one with Riker and the J'Naii woman...which was also meant to be very pro-LGBT but ended up as kind of the opposite due to casting incompetence.
Best thing the Alliance can do is blockade Kobali prime and demand the Kobali turn over the Vaadwuar bodies or their assistance is withdrawn.
Glassing seems a bit too excessive but seizing control of their military installations might get the message across.
Failing that a military occupation of their world will do
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I supposed I'm in the minority that actually likes the Kobali? I mean as a story arc, it's definitely different, and certainly a species very much unlike the others Star Trek's come up with. I like 'em because they're screwed biologically and propagate the species in a very morbid & questionable manner. When I first watched Ashes To Ashes all those years ago when it aired, the very first thing, and I still remember this, that I thought about them was "Ew! But grotesquely cool!"
i like them too...but then, necromancy is a favorite with me, and what the kobali do is essentially a scientific version of that - excepot the end result isn't undead and still has full mental capacity
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Reducing the Kobali home world to a glassed surface is the easiest and most efficient solution
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
A final solution, huh?
Where was the last time I heard that? Oh, right. Adolf Schicklegruber. Who killed more than 6 million people and tried to take over the world.
Before that, it was this jerk in Zulu Dawn who intentionally provoked a war with the Zulus because he saw them as savages to be eliminated.
My captain is not Federation, he's from the mirror universe, The Kobali have lied to the alliance and used them from day one to help them in a war that is not in Starfleet's interest.
As for Zulu Dawn, that war did not go so well for the British at the start, Isandlwana ring a bell?
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
So in retaliation for the Kobali starting a war, you just glassed a world with Vaadwaur stasis facilities. Congratulations, Captain - now the Vaadwaur are at war with us too!
Are you beginning to see where "hypocrisy" comes into the conversation yet?
I dunno...he sounds an awful lot like one William Tecumseh Sherman, a racist monster who attempted genocide in the 19th century. He could easily be from the prime universe.
Sherman used scorched earth as a weapon, Sisko poisoned a planet's atmosphere as a demonstration and he got away with it.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I think it might be sufficient as a worst case to bomb them back out of the interstellar age after helping the Vaadwaur get their people back, and shoot anything that rises above a reasonable altitude for in-atmosphere air travel. I guess I have a problem with flat-out annihilating a species when they are comprised of individual versus hive minds, except in the narrowest of circumstances. Once you do it, ALL chance of repentance or rapprochement is gone forever, and if it WAS possible then I would be guilty of stealing it, so taking that step must be an *extreme* last resort.
(I am similarly not in favor of genocide against the Undine as we have proof that they are individuals and a minority of them are open to reason. It may be very dangerous to try to contact these individuals but I subscribe to the belief that if even one righteous person may be there, then if I take that life, I am guilty.)
This is especially true in my mind since I think willing donors could be located until a better solution can be found by or for the Kobali. In light of that I see no need to annihilate the species. Whether the donor numbers would be sufficient to keep the species viable...is not my problem and is incentive for the Kobali to find a better solution.
(As for cloning I seem to recall a Trek episode indicating that any tech the Feds might have is not viable on a sustained generational basis due to some sort of degeneration over time. So I don't think that particular pat solution is available.)
So my "worst case" involves a destruction of all space travel coupled with aggressive quarantine. I would try to avoid that necessity but if that failed--that's where I draw the line.
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sounds a bit like what the new republic did to the yevetha at the end of the black fleet crisis
it had nothing to do with the tech not being viable, and everything to do with the fact that clones were being cloned, so replicative fading came into play after a certain amount of time
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
The Vaudwaar won't stop attacking Kobali prime even if we or the Kobali themselves gave the stasis pods back. It wouldn't change their aggressive, highly millitaristic, quadrant-conquering ways. They would still be a big problem to everyone in the delta quadrant. If we gave the hundreds or perhaps even thousands of sleeping Vaudwaar back to their people then we'd only be making the problem bigger for ourselves as those Vaudwaar sleepers are turned into soldiers to turn on us.
In addition to that, those sleeping hostages are the only reason why the Vaudwaar haven't used their superior numbers, skill and tactics to take the Kobali city entirely.
But, the Kobali's "rebirth" process has a lot of problems too. Especially with how they treat the newly rebirthed. Truly they should keep the soon-to-be kobali unconscious until the transformation process has finished and explain everything clearly within one paragraph when they wake up. And of course give them choice if they wish to chase their former lives. The way they do it now is abominable.
That being said I don't have a problem with the taking of bodies and turning them into Kobali. When I die I'm either donating my organs and/or giving my body to science. I'd have no use for it afterall. But I am aware others do mind it. So asking permission is necessary for the Kobali.
Then of course the Kobali have lied to us repeatedly. Use us for their own ends in aiding in this fight. Those responsible for lying to us should be punished in a court of law for the Starfleet lives otherwise lost because of their lies.
The whole situation is a mess. But I guess the Kobali at least are on our side with ships, tech and numbers. They're more useful to us in the long run than trying to play nice with the Vaudwaar. It would be so much easier if the Vaudwaar could be negotiated with.
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In Eldex's defense, the Kobali did say they'd give the Vaadwaur back their people. And they've gone back on that promise. He's got a damn good reason to be angry and refuse to negotiate with these TRIBBLE.
In-game, Eldex strikes me as an honest man who is open and willing to negotiate in good faith. It's the Kobali who are the liars.
Gaul, of course, makes Hitler look like Mr. Rogers, so no point in even trying.
Hence the sense for me of almost "loss" from a plot standpoint when I didn't get the chance to speak with him again.
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Neither of which compare to the brainwashing evil which the Kobali are guilty of... Personally, I'm all for just invoking the Prime Directive, saying 'not my mess to clear up, not getting involved...' I was just pointing out the criteria given for where the Prime Directive could be overlooked, don't necessarily go well for the Kobali (ie General Order 24) and lean more toward action against them... Any other kind of solution, simply isn't within the Federation's mandate to enforce or even administer... Given the Federation's history with the Cardassians, Klingons and Romulans, I'd encourage negotiation with the Vaadwaur with a view to future relations, and leave the Kobali to their innevitable eventual extinction...
Agreed 100%, this is spot-on and one of my biggest gripes with the DR storyline.
Haven't read those books...
This is the problem I was thinking of and it does make the tech nonviable for their problem. Given that the Kobali have no new births, if they ceased body-snatching, then I think within a certain number of generations they would run into the same issue and be back where they started, unless they were able to put an end to that problem.
That said I would worry that with their current ethics they would clone without donor consent--a problem I seem to recall from the episode that discussed cloning.
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Sorry about the rant, but oh my Cthulhu that episode drove me insane with rage at the stupid and the implications.
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Except for the whole killing your allies, if he can't get you to do it.
Yeah, it's from season 2, which makes it ultimately the fault of Maurice Hurley. And my Cthulhu was it bad.
To paraphrase Chuck "SFDebris" Sonnenburg, I'm pro-competence. If you disagree with me, I want an intelligent opponent, not some numbnuts who quote-mines Stephen Jay Gould, blatantly falsifies data (motherf***ing Alan Feduccia), or screams in my face that I'm "Pro-Death" and that I should go home and kill myself. If you agree with me, I want an intelligent, competent person who doesn't just spout buzzwords and hack apart crops while wearing a butterfly suit because they read a statistic from a paper out-of-context and never bothered to read the rest of the damn thing.
Because frankly, the thing that irritates me the most, isn't opposition, but incompetence.
You've got Eldex confused with Gaul.
And can you really blame the Vaads for being bitter? The Kobali are using their dead to reproduce (the evidence indicates they do consider it sacrilegious, or something to that effect, to graverob) and the Turei were the ringleaders for their near-extinction, an event a huge percentage of the current population was alive for. And in the latter case they went well beyond what was actually necessary to achieve victory, glassing several planets and carpet-bombing civilians in an attempt to render the Vaadwaur extinct. And the other races, the Feds, Klinks, and Roms included, are helping them.
Just like with the Bajorans and the Cardassians back home. There's still a huge number of Bajorans who grew up in Cardassian concentration camps or fought in the Resistance, and logically aren't going to be Cardie-friendly even though a lot has changed in 40 years.
Honestly the fact that Eldex doesn't gun down your character in cold blood in "Dragon's Deceit" is a testament to his open-mindedness and moral fortitude. You're basically asking a Holocaust survivor not to be angry at the people who did the deed.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Uh... Worffan, I've watched that episode several times and I don't remember there ever being anything remotely to do with abortion in it.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
They didn't say "abortion", but the showrunners confirmed that cloning the crew was supposed to be an analogy for an unwanted pregnancy (presumably by r*pe), making killing the clones abortion. They were trying to do a pro-choice aesop and completely screwed the pooch.
Basically it's the same type of deal as Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn "reassociating" as an analogy for homosexuality, except that one actually worked.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I really don't see how cloning = forced abortion...
If that was seriously what they were going for... they completely failed, because even having it explained to me I can't see the connection.
Trials of Blood and Fire
Moving On Parts 1-3 - Part 4
In Cold Blood
Better analogy might be the one with Riker and the J'Naii woman...which was also meant to be very pro-LGBT but ended up as kind of the opposite due to casting incompetence.
My character Tsin'xing
Glassing seems a bit too excessive but seizing control of their military installations might get the message across.
Failing that a military occupation of their world will do
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
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