To be fair, tho, Insurrection was really, really dumb.
I can sort of half-rationalize it as Picard affected by his guilt over the near-war at Dorvan V and Ba'ku crazy space quasi-telepathy, but frankly, it was stupid, and had exactly one good bit--Ru'afo's screams of "NNNOOOOO!!!!!", which amused me.
At least it was better than Nemesis...but then, some rate STV better than Nemesis, and they have a point.
I could at least watch the great action scenes in Nemesis, and at least there was a little seed for me, to try to figure out the Remans. Insurrection, I literally got nothing. Didn't care about it even slightly. The projector even messed up in the theater near the end and I did not feel like I missed anything. That was the one Trek movie I almost walked out of.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
I could at least watch the great action scenes in Nemesis, and at least there was a little seed for me, to try to figure out the Remans. Insurrection, I literally got nothing. Didn't care about it even slightly. The projector even messed up in the theater near the end and I did not feel like I missed anything. That was the one Trek movie I almost walked out of.
I will definitely agree with you on Nemesis' space battle. It's the first space battle in the franchise that I feel really captured the feel of 3D space combat, with ships whooshing over and under each other and Picard rolling ship to present undamaged shields.
ST2009 topped it, though, when they had the Enterprise relative upside-down when they approached the Narada the first time. That never happens.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I will definitely agree with you on Nemesis' space battle. It's the first space battle in the franchise that I feel really captured the feel of 3D space combat, with ships whooshing over and under each other and Picard rolling ship to present undamaged shields.
ST2009 topped it, though, when they had the Enterprise relative upside-down when they approached the Narada the first time. That never happens.
JJTrek 1 also had the "driven, fanatical" villain sit on his rear and do jack sh*t for twenty-five years. Not even so much as a call to ch'Rihan.
JJTrek 1 also had the "driven, fanatical" villain sit on his rear and do jack sh*t for twenty-five years. Not even so much as a call to ch'Rihan.
What a moron...
I honestly think that with all the flaws and contrived coincidences in the '09 film, Nemesis was still worse. Shinzon wants to learn about his progenitor before killing him? He can bloody well look the guy up online.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I honestly think that with all the flaws and contrived coincidences in the '09 film, Nemesis was still worse. Shinzon wants to learn about his progenitor before killing him? He can bloody well look the guy up online.
True that...given that this is CAPTAIN JEAN-LUC PICARD, 14-time savior of the Federation, the timeline, and reality itself.
I don't know if this has been said already, but for a species with 6 frontal lobes, I'd think an alternative to grave robbing for resurrection would have been found. Something doesn't smell right...
I will definitely agree with you on Nemesis' space battle. It's the first space battle in the franchise that I feel really captured the feel of 3D space combat, with ships whooshing over and under each other and Picard rolling ship to present undamaged shields.
ST2009 topped it, though, when they had the Enterprise relative upside-down when they approached the Narada the first time. That never happens.
I'd played Bridge Commander a few months before Nemesis, and I suspect someone in the Paramount art department had too. Definitely a battle improvement.
Actually, thinking of battles and the Kobali had a bit of a thought:
I know the Kobali sent medical ships to Vaadwaur Prime and we saw the medical triage area handling some serious cases, but I'm curious what else their medical technology can do - I bet they are really good at transplants and tissue grafts, for instance. After all, the Think Tank was run into 'in between' Vidiian and Kobali space - it wouldn't be stretching a plot bunny too far to argue to much that the way the Tank synthesized technologies that it may have helped cure the Phage.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
JJTrek 1 also had the "driven, fanatical" villain sit on his rear and do jack sh*t for twenty-five years. Not even so much as a call to ch'Rihan.
What a moron...
He himself said he didn't speak for the Empire, and he knew it was still there after the time travel; but he also knew that it was gonna be destroyed in the future if he didn't do something about it, ie, Spock and his planet. And besides, sitting and doing nothing for 25 years, while warped, is still remarkable dedication (likely obsession by that time).
Besides, he was mad from grief; don't know why you expected him to act rationally imo
I don't know if this has been said already, but for a race with 6 frontal lobes, I'd think an alternative to grave robbing for resurrection would have been found. Something doesn't smell right...
Similar situations like that have popped up all over the place:
The ones behind the cloaked planet Aldea couldn't conceive that their shielding technology was weakening their ozone layer to radiation, even before they gradually lost the knowledge to work their machines
The genetically-engineered colony about to be hit by a stellar fragment didn't have a crucial fix to the solution at the moment of need, but the blind 'merely-human' man did (keeping in mind they bred out all abnormalities like blindness)
-and so on. It can easily be the same for the Kobali; when you have a system that works well for you, why seek another? Not to mention the fact that, least in ST, humans have an uncanny ability to pull solutions out of thin air in crises as kinda their thing
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
...but he also knew that it was gonna be destroyed in the future if he didn't do something about it, ie, Spock and his planet.
Dude, destroying Vulcan would've done absolutely nothing to save Romulus. He just wanted to take revenge on the Vulcans because Spock didn't get there in time. If he had actually wanted to save Romulus, he would've flown over to the Hobus system and dropped a black hole bomb near the system primary.
Newsflash: Nero was a nutter.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Dude, destroying Vulcan would've done absolutely nothing to save Romulus. He just wanted to take revenge on the Vulcans because Spock didn't get there in time. If he had actually wanted to save Romulus, he would've flown over to the Hobus system and dropped a black hole bomb near the system primary.
Newsflash: Nero was a nutter.
"But Romulus hasn't been destroyed--"
"Don't tell ME Romulus wasn't destroyed!! I SAW it destroyed!!"
Yeah, any analyses of Nero's actions that proceed from assuming he could make a rational decision are fundamentally flawed.
So, to get this sorta back on track, here is my take on the Kobali.
1: Planet was originally named K'bala II, coincidence? I think not!
2: The Kobali settled on this planet somewhere around 2320, with 2410 marking their 90th year of colonizing the planet and turning it into their homeworld.
3: Vaadwaur civilization died out in the 15th century or so, lore wise, and only remerged as a power within the last three decades, 2380's up to 2410.
4: It's not really made clear when the Kobali had found the 'Temple', but it appears to have been long enough to study the technology and stabalise it.
5:Assuming they found it before 2370's, the majority of the Vaadwaur were still asleep, or dead, as shown within the Voy episode; due primarily to the age of the equipment, and assuming inherent faults as well with this form of technology.
6: The Kobali respect life, they view giving a person a second chance a good thing, so I doubt they would intentionally kill the Vaadwaur, or there wouldn't be a temple with Vaadwaur still in it. The Kobali appear to have reverse engineered the stasis technology enough to stabalise and maybe even repair broken pods, though it seems to be out of necessity, they do upkeep on the ones with occupants, to preserve the lives within.
7: People are biased and seem to be applying Frankenstein's Monster/World War Z/ Every other sci-fi show with reanimated dead, onto an alien culture, as well as seeming to be involving religious beliefs in Star Trek. I agree to humans, it seems like the Kobali are reanimating and brainwashing the dead, which may conflict with our religious beliefs, but these are aliens from another quadrant, yes it doesn't mean everyone excepts the Kobali animating the dead, but we don't have to want to eradicate them as a species, we'd be no better than Hittler, or be like Khan Noonien Singh.
8: Kobali are different after they are changed, we saw this with Lyndsay, everything was culture clash with her, to the point were she realized she was no longer Lyndsay Ballard
, she couldn't try to be her again, and Harry didn't want her to sacrifice her new chance at life if it would only be a negative experience.
9: The name of the planet is K'bala II, Kabalii, Kobali. Does this mean the original, remaing Vaadwaur, who appeared to be made up of poets, writers, and educators, with the possibility of scientists and bio molecular geniuses, survived the destruction of their people as a whole? The Vaadwaur seemed to come up with a Kobali life virus anti-agent pretty quickly, does this mean the Vaadwaur could have just as easily created the original virus to change their people? If you were the last peaceful remnants of a race of tyrants, wouldn't you want a new image and face, if only to survive? This could mean at some point the original Kobali left K'bala II, only to return to it a brighter people, knowing some part of their past was connected to this long forgotten m-class lanet.
STV at least wasn't a blatant ripoff of a previous Trek film, and had a decent Kirk-Spock-McCoy friendship thing going on amidst the crazy Vulcan looking for heaven bit.
And Insurrection was?
At worst, it was a ripoff of several TNG episodes ("Who Watches the Watchers", among others whose names I can't remember), but not a previous film.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
At worst, it was a ripoff of several TNG episodes ("Who Watches the Watchers", among others whose names I can't remember), but not a previous film.
I think he was referring to Nemesis there.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
6: The Kobali respect life, they view giving a person a second chance a good thing, so I doubt they would intentionally kill the Vaadwaur, or there wouldn't be a temple with Vaadwaur still in it. The Kobali appear to have reverse engineered the stasis technology enough to stabalise and maybe even repair broken pods, though it seems to be out of necessity, they do upkeep on the ones with occupants, to preserve the lives within.
7: People are biased and seem to be applying Frankenstein's Monster/World War Z/ Every other sci-fi show with reanimated dead, onto an alien culture, as well as seeming to be involving religious beliefs in Star Trek. I agree to humans, it seems like the Kobali are reanimating and brainwashing the dead, which may conflict with our religious beliefs, but these are aliens from another quadrant, yes it doesn't mean everyone excepts the Kobali animating the dead, but we don't have to want to eradicate them as a species, we'd be no better than Hitler, or be like Khan Noonien Singh.
Finally! Sombody who understands my respect for the Kobali people! And why Q'Nel kept so many secrets was because if he just spouted out about the Vaadwaur stasis farm and Keten then Kim would play hero captain and after kicking Q'Nel's TRIBBLE and freeing Keten without making him Kobali, he would have released the Vaadwaur and then the chat with Gaul at the Talaxian base would have been better. The Kobali also give a person a chance to live two lives each one as a seperate person and looking at the universe from a differant standpoint, and idiots around here call them grave-digging, zombielike, identity thieves?!
Post you bullsh*t below to counter my argument, after all I started this argument and Im going to end it!
Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Many of us have said that we don't have a problem with the Kobali life cycle itself, we have a problem with the issue of informed consent on participating in it, and we have issues with the way the Kobali leadership lies to get its own way. I don't care if we're dealing with zombies; the Federation's got along just fine with many species that have all sorts of weird biology. I do worry about doing deals with people we can't trust, because they keep lying to us.
If Q'Nel had been straight with the Alliance about the real nature of the temple from the outset - yes, we probably would have made them stop chowing down on the Vaadwaur in there, and that would have been the right thing to do. Even the Vaadwaur deserve better than to be used without consent, as a breeding resource by another species.
And, where does this idea come from that the Kobali respect life? I grant you, they say they do - unfortunately, they have been caught in so many lies, I don't trust what they say. I grant you, they show the greatest possible respect for Kobali lives. So much so that, for example, they recruit Alliance soldiers to fight and die in their place. I'm not seeing much in the way of respect for non-Kobali.
(As for "giving people a second chance at life" - it's pretty central to their world-view that they don't do that, that a body revived by the Kobali virus is an entirely new, Kobali, person whose memories of a former identity are just relics that will fade away. This is one area where, frankly, I devoutly hope they are telling the truth, but - given their track record - I have to be dubious.)
To sum up: the problem is not that they're "zombies", the problem is that they're liars.
Many of us have said that we don't have a problem with the Kobali life cycle itself, we have a problem with the issue of informed consent on participating in it, and we have issues with the way the Kobali leadership lies to get its own way. I don't care if we're dealing with zombies; the Federation's got along just fine with many species that have all sorts of weird biology. I do worry about doing deals with people we can't trust, because they keep lying to us.
If Q'Nel had been straight with the Alliance about the real nature of the temple from the outset - yes, we probably would have made them stop chowing down on the Vaadwaur in there, and that would have been the right thing to do. Even the Vaadwaur deserve better than to be used without consent, as a breeding resource by another species.
And, where does this idea come from that the Kobali respect life? I grant you, they say they do - unfortunately, they have been caught in so many lies, I don't trust what they say. I grant you, they show the greatest possible respect for Kobali lives. So much so that, for example, they recruit Alliance soldiers to fight and die in their place. I'm not seeing much in the way of respect for non-Kobali.
(As for "giving people a second chance at life" - it's pretty central to their world-view that they don't do that, that a body revived by the Kobali virus is an entirely new, Kobali, person whose memories of a former identity are just relics that will fade away. This is one area where, frankly, I devoutly hope they are telling the truth, but - given their track record - I have to be dubious.)
To sum up: the problem is not that they're "zombies", the problem is that they're liars.
This is all very good, but one thing to add--I also feel that the process of rebirth as it currently stands is evil, forcibly stripping the reborn person's identity slowly and agonizingly as their bodies are remade while they're still awake.
This is all very good, but one thing to add--I also feel that the process of rebirth as it currently stands is evil, forcibly stripping the reborn person's identity slowly and agonizingly as their bodies are remade while they're still awake.
Which is beyond a crime against sentient life.
Or is that just a fluke thing that only happens to humans? Actually Jhetleya STILL remembers being Lyndsey Ballard, so it didn't actually remove her identity....
Honestly I trust Eldex a lot more than I trust Q'Nel. Now, Q'Nel is in some ways more *likeable* than Eldex, but unlike Gaul, we have never had any evidence of Eldex flat-out double-dealing. I mean, at least in the unpleasant incident with the Benthan, Eldex doesn't go behind your back and sabotage your ship into doing something you didn't order, if you do the right thing and tell him NO. Which would be the equivalent of the behavior Q'Nel and the Kobali have demonstrated: you demanded they deal with you in good faith and they reward you for that by refusing to tell you they have one of your officers and then torturing the guy to near psychological death.
That last bit hadn't occurred yet, in my story "The Blood of Dragons," but knowing this definitely influenced how I chose to portray Eldex and have Berat relate to him.
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It could be an at-one-remove thing - she remembers being someone who remembers being Ballard, if you see what I mean.
The exact nature of the identity of a revivee... may be, ultimately, unknowable. A matter of personal religious or other belief. (But I'd like to know what a revivee turns out like without Kobali around to guide them into a proper acceptance of Kobali society....)
Or is that just a fluke thing that only happens to humans? Actually Jhetleya STILL remembers being Lyndsey Ballard, so it didn't actually remove her identity....
Dude, seriously, you keep repeating that argument, and we keep telling you to go watch VOY: "Ashes to Ashes" again. In 2375 the Kobali have terminology and established procedures for dealing with reluctant converts, and they had them before they'd ever encountered humans. It's not a quirk of human physiology, it's something that has happened with local species, repeatedly.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Now, Q'Nel is in some ways more *likeable* than Eldex,
Have to disagree, I find his sanctimonious hypocrisy and whiny attitude beyond annoying. Eldex is the kind of realistic antagonistic ally that I really like as a deuteragonist.
but unlike Gaul, we have never had any evidence of Eldex flat-out double-dealing. I mean, at least in the unpleasant incident with the Benthan, Eldex doesn't go behind your back and sabotage your ship into doing something you didn't order, if you do the right thing and tell him NO. Which would be the equivalent of the behavior Q'Nel and the Kobali have demonstrated: you demanded they deal with you in good faith and they reward you for that by refusing to tell you they have one of your officers and then torturing the guy to near psychological death.
Eldex is honest. He has no reason not to be; he's a loyal soldier who's just discovered that his CO and most of high command has been infiltrated by alien abominations.
Q'Nel...Q'Nel's a lying sleazeball. As Worf would say, he has no honor at all.
Dude, seriously, you keep repeating that argument, and we keep telling you to go watch VOY: "Ashes to Ashes" again. In 2375 the Kobali have terminology and established procedures for dealing with reluctant converts, and they had them before they'd ever encountered humans. It's not a quirk of human physiology, it's something that has happened with local species, repeatedly.
Haivng a word for something means it is a concept you understand. NOT that it is a daily occurrence.
ferengi have certain values and restrictions, i doubt even they are going to open business for shipping corpses around and i doubt the kobali have the economy to pull it off considering how new their homeworld is to them and how much destruction the vaadwaur have inflicted on them and their homeworld.
there is no profit in it at this point if your going completely pre-rom grand nagus type of ferengi. but ferengi are now required to file taxes, comply with regulations and such, get it all sanctioned by the governing body. i just dont see it happening unless its a rogue operation.
as for the kobali, there is nothing hard in proof to link the kobali to some accident that turned them to this. right now we know little of their whole way of life, and even if you have 30 episodes with the kobali, you still wouldnt be scratching the surface of the kobali way of life, culture, customs, religion, politics, recreation, if they attempted to couple in an attempt to reproduce or whatever else floats that boat, i actually dont care about the kobali, but if the cryptic devs are expanding on them even more, they may as well go the whole distance on it.
yet they auction off dessicated remains of themselves with payment received in advance of death. i doubt ferengi would have a problem selling the corpse of other species. paying taxes or regulated trade i dont see as interfering with this sort of trade practice. much like selling and or donating your body to science or organs for transplant nowadays. sure its not for everybody but some do it. and somebody is most definitely making money off this as we speak here on earth right now.Being blind to these truths about the hear and now is a flaw often seen with federation types and liberals in general.
but on topic i hate them because i dont trust them. and the same goes for the federation who now supports them. they are holding those vaadwaur hostage just waitng for them to die so they could use them. the vaadwuar just want their live people back. thats good enough reason for me to side with the Cobra necks.
And TRIBBLE the federation that seems to wholeheartedly support this species and their practices. Even if they stopped using them as source materials they are still holding those vaadwaurs hostage.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but it really bothers me how the Vaadwaur are basically criminalized for everything they've done. They've been accused of invading Kobali Prime and attempting genocide, and under Gaul's leadership that may well have been true (much as nations committed atrocities under leaders like Hitler and Khan).
However, contrary to what the Kobali have told us, the Vaadwaur are not simply invading them or attempting to commit genocide. From the Vaadwaur perspective (and mine), the Kobali are holding thousands of Vaadwauar civilians hostage with the intention of using their bodies to create more Kobali. So you not only have kidnapping and extortion, you have what amounts to slavery and trafficking on the part of the Kobali.
Not only that, but when Kim brings up the fact that the Kobali have brought them there under false pretense, that MACO captain tries to invoke the Prime Directive. However, the PD has already been broken because the Federation is helping the Kobali in the first place. Were they to actually follow the PD, the Federation would withdraw completely and let the Vaadwaur and Kobali fight it out themselves.
Instead, we're expected to continue helping liars, kidnappers, and traffickers as they fight off the people trying to rescue their trapped civilians.
I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but it really bothers me how the Vaadwaur are basically criminalized for everything they've done. They've been accused of invading Kobali Prime and attempting genocide, and under Gaul's leadership that may well have been true (much as nations committed atrocities under leaders like Hitler and Khan).
However, contrary to what the Kobali have told us, the Vaadwaur are not simply invading them or attempting to commit genocide. From the Vaadwaur perspective (and mine), the Kobali are holding thousands of Vaadwauar civilians hostage with the intention of using their bodies to create more Kobali. So you not only have kidnapping and extortion, you have what amounts to slavery and trafficking on the part of the Kobali.
Not only that, but when Kim brings up the fact that the Kobali have brought them there under false pretense, that MACO captain tries to invoke the Prime Directive. However, the PD has already been broken because the Federation is helping the Kobali in the first place. Were they to actually follow the PD, the Federation would withdraw completely and let the Vaadwaur and Kobali fight it out themselves.
Instead, we're expected to continue helping liars, kidnappers, and traffickers as they fight off the people trying to rescue their trapped civilians.
LOL 100% with you. but as i only play Klingons i jsut want to know why the hell the KDf is supposed to support and uphold the prime directive at all. it BS .. KDF needs their own arc outside of the feddy bears. let us side with the vaadwaur. even if it means taking out the bluegill infected and helping the true vaadwaurs but not this kobali feddeartion arc BS we are stuck with now. like the one patrol mission turn it into the 1st kdf mission let us help those seeking an escape and aid them in the battle against their infected leadership.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Have to disagree, I find his sanctimonious hypocrisy and whiny attitude beyond annoying. Eldex is the kind of realistic antagonistic ally that I really like as a deuteragonist.
What I mean by likeability in Q'Nel should be best equated to "affability" or "social graces," as opposed to "I think you're a great guy." Whereas in contrast Eldex is not "likeable" in that sense yet I found his character immensely compelling, enough to actually feel upset at not getting an opportunity to speak with him one more time at the end of "Takedown."
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I just finished reading this whole thread but last night a thought occurred. If I may, let me ask a question about what could be interpreted logically as a similar rights violation using the definitions some people are applying to the Kobali and their reproductive cycle...
...did the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids of 3.5 billion years ago or more have any right to seed hundreds of thousands of worlds in the Milky Way for what amounts to a 3.5 billion year-old experiment in Directed Evolution just to create living, breathing, walking monuments (granted, it was to their existence and not greatness) to themselves?
Because by the definitions applied to the Kobali by some of you...the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids had no right to do what they did either.
I just finished reading this whole thread but last night a thought occurred. If I may, let me ask a question about what could be interpreted logically as a similar rights violation using the definitions some people are applying to the Kobali and their reproductive cycle...
...did the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids of 3.5 billion years ago or more have any right to seed hundreds of thousands of worlds in the Milky Way for what amounts to a 3.5 billion year-old experiment in Directed Evolution just to create living, breathing, walking monuments (granted, it was to their existence and not greatness) to themselves?
Because by the definitions applied to the Kobali by some of you...the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids had no right to do what they did either.
only if primordial sludge had thoughts, feelings and memory's to be erased.
Trophies for killing FEDS ahh those were the days.
Dude, seriously, you keep repeating that argument, and we keep telling you to go watch VOY: "Ashes to Ashes" again. In 2375 the Kobali have terminology and established procedures for dealing with reluctant converts, and they had them before they'd ever encountered humans. It's not a quirk of human physiology, it's something that has happened with local species, repeatedly.
I think it may be that humans catch the worst of it out of any species thus far encountered--much like certain medicinal drugs affect some people in much more pronounced or less pronounced ways than others.
To use an IRL example, certain sedatives administered for outpatient procedures have a reputation for erasing memories and sometimes knocking someone completely unconscious. While I do experience effects from these drugs, I remain conscious, continue forming long-term memories, and close to a rational state. On the most recent procedure I have the impression they tried to up the dose, in addition to knowing they added a second med (I have a strong suspicion there was a note on my chart about my level of awareness), and I still reacted very similarly even though the literature on the med says this is uncommon.
But the fact that my reaction is so marked doesn't mean others do not experience degrees of the same thing and that a doctor should not have to THINK about this and know how to handle it.
Humans may have the most severe reactions in the Kobali case, but it does NOT negate the responsibility even for effects that might be considered "lesser" in others.
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I could at least watch the great action scenes in Nemesis, and at least there was a little seed for me, to try to figure out the Remans. Insurrection, I literally got nothing. Didn't care about it even slightly. The projector even messed up in the theater near the end and I did not feel like I missed anything. That was the one Trek movie I almost walked out of.
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I will definitely agree with you on Nemesis' space battle. It's the first space battle in the franchise that I feel really captured the feel of 3D space combat, with ships whooshing over and under each other and Picard rolling ship to present undamaged shields.
ST2009 topped it, though, when they had the Enterprise relative upside-down when they approached the Narada the first time. That never happens.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
JJTrek 1 also had the "driven, fanatical" villain sit on his rear and do jack sh*t for twenty-five years. Not even so much as a call to ch'Rihan.
What a moron...
I honestly think that with all the flaws and contrived coincidences in the '09 film, Nemesis was still worse. Shinzon wants to learn about his progenitor before killing him? He can bloody well look the guy up online.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
True that...given that this is CAPTAIN JEAN-LUC PICARD, 14-time savior of the Federation, the timeline, and reality itself.
I'd played Bridge Commander a few months before Nemesis, and I suspect someone in the Paramount art department had too. Definitely a battle improvement.
Actually, thinking of battles and the Kobali had a bit of a thought:
I know the Kobali sent medical ships to Vaadwaur Prime and we saw the medical triage area handling some serious cases, but I'm curious what else their medical technology can do - I bet they are really good at transplants and tissue grafts, for instance. After all, the Think Tank was run into 'in between' Vidiian and Kobali space - it wouldn't be stretching a plot bunny too far to argue to much that the way the Tank synthesized technologies that it may have helped cure the Phage.
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Besides, he was mad from grief; don't know why you expected him to act rationally imo Similar situations like that have popped up all over the place:
The ones behind the cloaked planet Aldea couldn't conceive that their shielding technology was weakening their ozone layer to radiation, even before they gradually lost the knowledge to work their machines
The genetically-engineered colony about to be hit by a stellar fragment didn't have a crucial fix to the solution at the moment of need, but the blind 'merely-human' man did (keeping in mind they bred out all abnormalities like blindness)
-and so on. It can easily be the same for the Kobali; when you have a system that works well for you, why seek another? Not to mention the fact that, least in ST, humans have an uncanny ability to pull solutions out of thin air in crises as kinda their thing
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Dude, destroying Vulcan would've done absolutely nothing to save Romulus. He just wanted to take revenge on the Vulcans because Spock didn't get there in time. If he had actually wanted to save Romulus, he would've flown over to the Hobus system and dropped a black hole bomb near the system primary.
Newsflash: Nero was a nutter.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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"Don't tell ME Romulus wasn't destroyed!! I SAW it destroyed!!"
Yeah, any analyses of Nero's actions that proceed from assuming he could make a rational decision are fundamentally flawed.
1: Planet was originally named K'bala II, coincidence? I think not!
2: The Kobali settled on this planet somewhere around 2320, with 2410 marking their 90th year of colonizing the planet and turning it into their homeworld.
3: Vaadwaur civilization died out in the 15th century or so, lore wise, and only remerged as a power within the last three decades, 2380's up to 2410.
4: It's not really made clear when the Kobali had found the 'Temple', but it appears to have been long enough to study the technology and stabalise it.
5:Assuming they found it before 2370's, the majority of the Vaadwaur were still asleep, or dead, as shown within the Voy episode; due primarily to the age of the equipment, and assuming inherent faults as well with this form of technology.
6: The Kobali respect life, they view giving a person a second chance a good thing, so I doubt they would intentionally kill the Vaadwaur, or there wouldn't be a temple with Vaadwaur still in it. The Kobali appear to have reverse engineered the stasis technology enough to stabalise and maybe even repair broken pods, though it seems to be out of necessity, they do upkeep on the ones with occupants, to preserve the lives within.
7: People are biased and seem to be applying Frankenstein's Monster/World War Z/ Every other sci-fi show with reanimated dead, onto an alien culture, as well as seeming to be involving religious beliefs in Star Trek. I agree to humans, it seems like the Kobali are reanimating and brainwashing the dead, which may conflict with our religious beliefs, but these are aliens from another quadrant, yes it doesn't mean everyone excepts the Kobali animating the dead, but we don't have to want to eradicate them as a species, we'd be no better than Hittler, or be like Khan Noonien Singh.
8: Kobali are different after they are changed, we saw this with Lyndsay, everything was culture clash with her, to the point were she realized she was no longer Lyndsay Ballard
, she couldn't try to be her again, and Harry didn't want her to sacrifice her new chance at life if it would only be a negative experience.
9: The name of the planet is K'bala II, Kabalii, Kobali. Does this mean the original, remaing Vaadwaur, who appeared to be made up of poets, writers, and educators, with the possibility of scientists and bio molecular geniuses, survived the destruction of their people as a whole? The Vaadwaur seemed to come up with a Kobali life virus anti-agent pretty quickly, does this mean the Vaadwaur could have just as easily created the original virus to change their people? If you were the last peaceful remnants of a race of tyrants, wouldn't you want a new image and face, if only to survive? This could mean at some point the original Kobali left K'bala II, only to return to it a brighter people, knowing some part of their past was connected to this long forgotten m-class lanet.
Vaadwaur + Genetic Enhancing/Altering Virus= Kobali?
If you've read this all the way, thank you for reading my take on the Kobali.
And Insurrection was?
At worst, it was a ripoff of several TNG episodes ("Who Watches the Watchers", among others whose names I can't remember), but not a previous film.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I think he was referring to Nemesis there.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Finally! Sombody who understands my respect for the Kobali people! And why Q'Nel kept so many secrets was because if he just spouted out about the Vaadwaur stasis farm and Keten then Kim would play hero captain and after kicking Q'Nel's TRIBBLE and freeing Keten without making him Kobali, he would have released the Vaadwaur and then the chat with Gaul at the Talaxian base would have been better. The Kobali also give a person a chance to live two lives each one as a seperate person and looking at the universe from a differant standpoint, and idiots around here call them grave-digging, zombielike, identity thieves?!
Post you bullsh*t below to counter my argument, after all I started this argument and Im going to end it!
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
If Q'Nel had been straight with the Alliance about the real nature of the temple from the outset - yes, we probably would have made them stop chowing down on the Vaadwaur in there, and that would have been the right thing to do. Even the Vaadwaur deserve better than to be used without consent, as a breeding resource by another species.
And, where does this idea come from that the Kobali respect life? I grant you, they say they do - unfortunately, they have been caught in so many lies, I don't trust what they say. I grant you, they show the greatest possible respect for Kobali lives. So much so that, for example, they recruit Alliance soldiers to fight and die in their place. I'm not seeing much in the way of respect for non-Kobali.
(As for "giving people a second chance at life" - it's pretty central to their world-view that they don't do that, that a body revived by the Kobali virus is an entirely new, Kobali, person whose memories of a former identity are just relics that will fade away. This is one area where, frankly, I devoutly hope they are telling the truth, but - given their track record - I have to be dubious.)
To sum up: the problem is not that they're "zombies", the problem is that they're liars.
This is all very good, but one thing to add--I also feel that the process of rebirth as it currently stands is evil, forcibly stripping the reborn person's identity slowly and agonizingly as their bodies are remade while they're still awake.
Which is beyond a crime against sentient life.
My character Tsin'xing
That last bit hadn't occurred yet, in my story "The Blood of Dragons," but knowing this definitely influenced how I chose to portray Eldex and have Berat relate to him.
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The exact nature of the identity of a revivee... may be, ultimately, unknowable. A matter of personal religious or other belief. (But I'd like to know what a revivee turns out like without Kobali around to guide them into a proper acceptance of Kobali society....)
Dude, seriously, you keep repeating that argument, and we keep telling you to go watch VOY: "Ashes to Ashes" again. In 2375 the Kobali have terminology and established procedures for dealing with reluctant converts, and they had them before they'd ever encountered humans. It's not a quirk of human physiology, it's something that has happened with local species, repeatedly.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Eldex is honest. He has no reason not to be; he's a loyal soldier who's just discovered that his CO and most of high command has been infiltrated by alien abominations.
Q'Nel...Q'Nel's a lying sleazeball. As Worf would say, he has no honor at all.
My character Tsin'xing
yet they auction off dessicated remains of themselves with payment received in advance of death. i doubt ferengi would have a problem selling the corpse of other species. paying taxes or regulated trade i dont see as interfering with this sort of trade practice. much like selling and or donating your body to science or organs for transplant nowadays. sure its not for everybody but some do it. and somebody is most definitely making money off this as we speak here on earth right now.Being blind to these truths about the hear and now is a flaw often seen with federation types and liberals in general.
but on topic i hate them because i dont trust them. and the same goes for the federation who now supports them. they are holding those vaadwaur hostage just waitng for them to die so they could use them. the vaadwuar just want their live people back. thats good enough reason for me to side with the Cobra necks.
And TRIBBLE the federation that seems to wholeheartedly support this species and their practices. Even if they stopped using them as source materials they are still holding those vaadwaurs hostage.
However, contrary to what the Kobali have told us, the Vaadwaur are not simply invading them or attempting to commit genocide. From the Vaadwaur perspective (and mine), the Kobali are holding thousands of Vaadwauar civilians hostage with the intention of using their bodies to create more Kobali. So you not only have kidnapping and extortion, you have what amounts to slavery and trafficking on the part of the Kobali.
Not only that, but when Kim brings up the fact that the Kobali have brought them there under false pretense, that MACO captain tries to invoke the Prime Directive. However, the PD has already been broken because the Federation is helping the Kobali in the first place. Were they to actually follow the PD, the Federation would withdraw completely and let the Vaadwaur and Kobali fight it out themselves.
Instead, we're expected to continue helping liars, kidnappers, and traffickers as they fight off the people trying to rescue their trapped civilians.
LOL 100% with you. but as i only play Klingons i jsut want to know why the hell the KDf is supposed to support and uphold the prime directive at all. it BS .. KDF needs their own arc outside of the feddy bears. let us side with the vaadwaur. even if it means taking out the bluegill infected and helping the true vaadwaurs but not this kobali feddeartion arc BS we are stuck with now. like the one patrol mission turn it into the 1st kdf mission let us help those seeking an escape and aid them in the battle against their infected leadership.
What I mean by likeability in Q'Nel should be best equated to "affability" or "social graces," as opposed to "I think you're a great guy." Whereas in contrast Eldex is not "likeable" in that sense yet I found his character immensely compelling, enough to actually feel upset at not getting an opportunity to speak with him one more time at the end of "Takedown."
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...did the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids of 3.5 billion years ago or more have any right to seed hundreds of thousands of worlds in the Milky Way for what amounts to a 3.5 billion year-old experiment in Directed Evolution just to create living, breathing, walking monuments (granted, it was to their existence and not greatness) to themselves?
Because by the definitions applied to the Kobali by some of you...the Preservers/Ancient Humanoids had no right to do what they did either.
only if primordial sludge had thoughts, feelings and memory's to be erased.
I think it may be that humans catch the worst of it out of any species thus far encountered--much like certain medicinal drugs affect some people in much more pronounced or less pronounced ways than others.
To use an IRL example, certain sedatives administered for outpatient procedures have a reputation for erasing memories and sometimes knocking someone completely unconscious. While I do experience effects from these drugs, I remain conscious, continue forming long-term memories, and close to a rational state. On the most recent procedure I have the impression they tried to up the dose, in addition to knowing they added a second med (I have a strong suspicion there was a note on my chart about my level of awareness), and I still reacted very similarly even though the literature on the med says this is uncommon.
But the fact that my reaction is so marked doesn't mean others do not experience degrees of the same thing and that a doctor should not have to THINK about this and know how to handle it.
Humans may have the most severe reactions in the Kobali case, but it does NOT negate the responsibility even for effects that might be considered "lesser" in others.
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