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Item Destruction - the feature the game desperately needs.

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Creative destruction is sometimes necessary.

    We have heard loud calls for a long time for an exchange tax, but these noisemakers are misguided. EC cost inflation is not harmful to anyone, dil cost inflation is.
    Why are EC cost inflation not harmful, but dil cost inflation is?

    EC is the only reliable way to buy certain items. If you go the Dilithium/Zen Exchange for master keys, you have a 0.5 % chance per key to get an item. The cost for that ridiculous.

    If you want to actually acquire the EC necessary to buy a lockbox ship, however, you need a lot of EC - and it's extremely difficult to earn this type of money in game, due to the inflationary cost of items on the regular EC Exchange.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No, you deny math by posting this.

    X > X - 1.

    A number "X" is more than a number "X" minus one.

    Others having less is identical to you having more. Since "more" only has significance in the sense of "more than..."

    The only thing that matters to me is having more than what I had before. If I have more than some homeless person, then it doesn't make me a better person. Destroying someone's stuff doesn't mean I have more stuff. It just means that they have less stuff.

    Saying that you are using altruistic reasons to implement this, then saying that people should lose their items because you will have more than them is not altruistic, it is petty. Being altruistic means that you care about other people having more not less.
  • scottstatenscottstaten Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    It would be better if the price of zen were lower because then the workingman wouldnt have to gind as much dil to get zen to get the c store things.
    I am willing to withdraw the amendment stipulating a higher destruction rate in PvP.

    And if it would get this beneficial proposal implemented, i would be willing to make PvP immune to item destruction.

    Let it rot as it is, the greater good is more important than pleasing the micro-minority of PvPers.

    The overall aim is to reduce dil cost inflation. Not to change PvP for the hundred people who play it.

    This is about the workingman.

    Well, as I've said before, This WORKINGMAN disagrees with you, however your tone and rhetoric is VERY Familliar to a workingman who lives in the DC area.

    You see, our biggest IMPORT is politicians. Folks who will, at times, say anything, including blatant untruths because it fits thier idological position. Don't go all Marion Barry on me man, I get enough of that in reality :)
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Why are EC cost inflation not harmful, but dil cost inflation is?

    EC is the only reliable way to buy certain items. If you go the Dilithium/Zen Exchange for master keys, you have a 0.5 % chance per key to get an item. The cost for that ridiculous.

    If you want to actually acquire the EC necessary to buy a lockbox ship, however, you need a lot of EC - and it's extremely difficult to earn this type of money in game, due to the inflationary cost of items on the regular EC Exchange.

    Forget it... That guy is in it for the greed... He knows Zen is gonna get expensive, and I am willing to bet he would be one of the guys farming dil from players.

    He is trying to hide it, but he has failed miserably, and the fact that he claims one kind of punishment is bad, and another that has the same fallout on a different currency is good, just proves that he isn't interested in improving anything other than his epeen and Dil-account.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • rickeyredshirtrickeyredshirt Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I support this idea, it would keep n00bz from having nice things. I PUG it once in awhile and it's always something to see some player going around with a dozen or so 'injuries' on their ship. At least this route would punish them for their idiocy.
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  • ussdelphin2ussdelphin2 Member Posts: 525 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Repetitiveepic, If you want the game to be a challenge for you, make a new character and see how far you can level it without dieing (exclude PvP) When you do die, delete the character and start again. :P
    How I picture a lot of the forumites :P
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  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You are wrong and you shame yourself with personal attacks.

    EC inflation is not a hardship, dil inflation is.

    To fight this hardship, we need a global solution.

    What was misapplied to EC by people who couldn't see clearly, is rightly applied to dil.

    The grotesque immorality of an EC tax is that it harms without providing any benefit.

    The ethical permissibility of item destruction comes from the plain fact that while it harms a little, it creates a global good that far exceeds the small harm.

    Dude... Don't pretend this isn't for personal winning...Don't pretend that you don't want to gloat in satisfaction when someone loses their gear...

    You've made that intention very clear.

    You don't care about inflation... You want that misguided sense of superiority and to fill your pockets...

    Even the fact that you reply to others in individual posts, rather than multi-quoting is a sign that you want more for yourself.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

    The last part of your post is shockingly bizarre.

    You two have something in common then. :)
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  • scottstatenscottstaten Member Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I dont want the game to be a challenge for me, I want a global solution to the problem of zen being overpriced.

    You have yet to establish that Zen is overpriced.

    The Big lie ins't working for you, try another tactic to push your ideology.
  • goldenlion619goldenlion619 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...your one of those people who "help" the working man by taxing us with things we did not ask for or want so you can get rich faster...okay. Your not being altruistic, your being a bloody parasite. What you propose will HURT the working man as you like to call them. You wanna help them? Buy a ton of master keys with your zen that your swimming in and give them to the working man players. So once again, put up or shut up.

    Well he is a Ferengi after all.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The ethical permissibility of item destruction comes from the plain fact that while it harms a little, it creates a global good that far exceeds the small harm.

    So inserting a chip in every person that creates an electrical shock every time that someone tries to cause some type of harm to other people is ethically permissible since it creates a global good that far exceeds the small amount of harm it causes? Sorry, but the means never justify the ends.

    Global good is too abstract and can't be agreed upon. What others might consider to be the global good, others might find oppressive. The Borg Collective would be for the global good since it removes hunger, crime, racism, and war while giving a sense of belonging, but most of us would not consider it for the global good due to its oppressive nature.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I dont want the game to be a challenge for me, I want a global solution to the problem of zen being overpriced.

    Item destruction does not work for this game, neither address the issues you're outlining. There are other alternatives. Also, Cryptic has never failed us at introducing new dil sinks every new release.

    They will take care of you.
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    STO Screenshot Archive

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  • thegcbaconthegcbacon Member Posts: 434 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My concerns are altruistic. I myself have and can generate huge amounts of dil because I am such a productive player, but it isn't me I'm worried about, I am covered in gravy, I will be fine one way or another.

    My motives are altruistic, I am seeking global solutions for global problems, a problem that affects the Workingman, not people like me.

    You should read the definition of a word before using it.
    X > X-1.

    X is more than X minus one.

    If I have X and my opponent has X minus one, I have more.

    You gaining more is not Altruistic.
    I can answer you in a single sentence:

    Because the price of zen is too high.
    This proposal will lower the price of zen!
    This would reduce the dil cost of zen and make it easier to get nice things.
    I don't know how long you've been with STO
    Once again, I dont know how new you are to STO, but in the era of high dil demand the price of zen was HALF of what it is now.

    How new are you to STO? 1 year is nothing, DIL/Zen used to be 450:1. The current rate is still cheap to long time players. Only new players and/or greedy players think the DIL/Zen rate is too high. Nothing you proposed will help PvP or the DIL/Zen rate.

    You should have proposed a PvP leaderboard or actual rewards for PvP. Neverwinter has both of those plus a PvP Campaign(Reputation), so there's more reason to PvP. I am betting more people would be aggreable to those ideas.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    thegcbacon wrote: »
    You should have proposed a PvP leaderboard or actual rewards for PvP. Neverwinter has both of those plus a PvP Campaign(Reputation), so there's more reason to PvP. I am betting more people would be aggreable to those ideas.

    Don't PvP, but Neverwinter appears to have the better PvP system compared to STO. The only PvE rewards in the PvP Campaign is a costume set and title as far as I recall so the rewards in a PvP Reputation should be mostly confined to PvP rewards.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Right now PvP is a hollow, ghastly, empty shell because there is no *point* to it

    GOOD.

    Honestly, people who have attitudes like yours (winning is everything, but actually harming the other player is even better!) are a big reason why I avoid pvp like the plague. Trash-talkers, bullies, griefers, testosterone-poisoned jockos, borderline-sociopaths.... yeah, perfectly happy to let them stew in their own sewer. The problem is when PvE games make the mistake of adding a lousy pvp mini-game on the side, so that the PvE players have to suffer through hearing these idiots in their chat and on their forums.


    (The other big reason, of course, is that I don't really care about competing with other players. As long as I'm enjoying myself, and have ways to improve my characters? I don't really care that other people are doing it faster or better. /shrug)

    You can't win anything doing it. No matter what happens in pvp, you can never get MORE.

    Adding these high stakes would add excitement to it, it would give people the chance, for the first time in STO, to get MORE by doing PvP.


    While, yes, in a relative sense, you end up with more by destroying other people's things.... you still don't really have "more". You have the same number of things, you just made others fall behind you.

    And the whole "I can get ahead by TRIBBLE others" viewpoint is disgusting.
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  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    What makes you think a seller will sell Zen for 80 Dil?
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