Do what? I cannot create a dil sink by deleting my own items.
I am not asking anyone to delete his own items.
It is almost impossible to draw any connection between this line of gibberish you and others keep repeating, and the point of this thread.
Your OP shows that the dilithium sink issue is merely secondary while the primary purpose of your thread is about "Stakes make games compelling and immersive because they increase by a large factor the excitement of playing." So if you are not willing to show us that destroying our items increases by a large factor the excitement of playing, then why should we do anything you say?
Deleting your items when you die shows dedication to your idea that item destruction somehow leads to fun and lower dilithium costs. Words are meaningless. The only thing that actually counts in this world is action.
The thing is that you can't create a dilithium sink through any action. Only the devs can create a dilithium sink and their most recent dilithium sink is Crafting. There are a bunch of people that sunk dilithium into crafting so they could craft level 15 items.
Do what? I cannot create a dil sink by deleting my own items.
I am not asking anyone to delete his own items.
It is almost impossible to draw any connection between this line of gibberish you and others keep repeating, and the point of this thread.
no you do not understand what others have been saying is you do what you are talking about lead by example and show them what you are talking about something you don't understand and call as gibberish it is called lead by example show everyone what you are talking about and since you don't lead by example then they will never do what you are talking about. So as others are saying to you over and over show them proof of what you are talking about lead by example and since you refuse to lead by example then shut the hell up about your idiotic idea until you show everyone with proof what you are talking about
Do what? I cannot create a dil sink by deleting my own items.
I am not asking anyone to delete his own items.
It is almost impossible to draw any connection between this line of gibberish you and others keep repeating, and the point of this thread.
Winston Churchill was once reported to have asked a lady would she sleep with him for a million pounds. She said yes. He then asks if she would for ten pounds. Her response was she was not that sort of woman. Churchill responded with "My dear, we have established what sort of woman you are, we are just negotiating on the price."
The story is most likely untrue/exaggerated, or refers to a different person and not Churchill, but it does have a point - that is, what is the difference between a million pounds and ten pounds, or, one person deleting their kit after a loss, and everyone deleting kit after a loss.
Your suggestion is telling everyone to delete their equipment after losing - fact is, everyone loses at some point, so you are telling people to delete their own items.
What sto needs most of all is for stakes to be added. When your ship explodes, there should be say a 10% chance that one of your items is destroyed. Items that could be reclaimed for free like prize ship and c store consoles should be excluded from this.
What I mean is, if your ship blows up, you should have a 10% chance of losing at random one of your weapons, consoles, engine, deflector, etc.
This loss should be permanent and require purchasing a new one from fleet or rep stores.
I also think that in PvP the chance of an item being destroyed on death should be much higher, as high as 30%.
PvP is obnoxiously boring in STO because there are no stakes at all involved.
Stakes make games compelling and immersive because they increase by a large factor the excitement of playing.
Since the game sorely needs new dil sinks, this would also help with dil inflation by forcing people who failed in combat to purchase new dil-cost items.
So, go to your local hobby store and buy a d10. If it comes up on "0" (or whatever number(s) you want) destroy your item. Then you can have your high stakes without imposing your lil "hardcore" mindset on the rest of us.
Then maybe if Cryptic implements the OP's dumb idea, people would stop saying how utterly easy PvE is. And how Elite STFs are so friggen easy you can do 'em in shuttles.
Yes, if you change the difficulity of PvE, the difficulty of PVE would change. Crazy, isn't it?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
A dil sink is by far the primary objective. The trick is figuring out an ethically permissible sink and also one that adds to the game rather than subtracts.
Adding a compelling new factor to gameplay on a global scale is a GLOBAL solution to this widespread problem.
These "neener neener" troll posts don't contribute anything except grasping at shame and piling it up all around. Out of simple decent concern for my brothers and sisters, I have to criticize them in a clear voice.
I am one of the people, by the way, who sunk dil into fast tracking crafting.
just going to point out as much as even normal mk 12 cost.
my stuff starts disappearing when I die I'm gone. and that coming from a "cryptic defender".
and your posting like a politician talks. I would stop before someone else finishes that line of thought.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
A dil sink is by far the primary objective. The trick is figuring out an ethically permissible sink and also one that adds to the game rather than subtracts.
Adding a compelling new factor to gameplay on a global scale is a GLOBAL solution to this widespread problem.
These "neener neener" troll posts don't contribute anything except grasping at shame and piling it up all around. Out of simple decent concern for my brothers and sisters, I have to criticize them in a clear voice.
I am one of the people, by the way, who sunk dil into fast tracking crafting.
I see...it's becoming clearer.
This makes more sense now that you bring it up. I was wondering about the crafting angle.
The dilithium sinking is only part of it. If people lose gear, then they naturally will hit the exchange, or so the thought goes, to replace it. As someone who has advanced his crafting through sinking dilithium, you would stand to make quite a bit from those who would want to stay on top.
Workingman indeed. Working the exchange maybe.
The zen/dilthium exchange is fine and doesn't need help. The current price is fairly healthy (maybe not for you).
There simply isnt enough demand for dil, the supply of dil is outstripping the demand and the surplus is expressed in zen prices twice as high as they should be!
Who among us isnt willing to take on a little bit of suffering for the good of the many?
This proposal will lower the price of zen!
look it seems like you have an explicit amount of dill if you don't want it we will help to solve your problem i personally know of 3 fleets that will take it of your hands.....
I have a better idea. Anytime you type anything into ESD chat, there is an extremely small chance that one of your ships will blow up. The more idiotic your chat becomes, the higher the probability you lose a ship. If it works for ESD chat, it could be expanded to the forums and we can kill the "Endgame Constitution" threads before they begin.
OP if you are saying you have so much dilithium it bothers you, I can honestly say you lost contact with reality/the game.
I can kind of relate to the point that the game stagnates when you don't have anything to buy or work towards but you are not even asking for new content or items, ships or whatever either.
Why do I get the feeling we're continuously being trolled here!?
Very, very much so. One OP who seems to not take no as an answer and plenty of posters all too happy to keep the argument going. This thread should have died pages ago.
I'm all for harsh death penalties, but you can't introduce them into a game like this mid-stream, it's ludicrous. It's not what people are used to, it would be far too jarring and disconcerting for the majority of casual players.
I could see the "injury" system on Elite setting being a bit harsher, and/or crafting being involved to repair things, but RNG item loss? Nah, wouldn't fly, not as the game is now and has been for years.
I have a better idea. Anytime you type anything into ESD chat, there is an extremely small chance that one of your ships will blow up. The more idiotic your chat becomes, the higher the probability you lose a ship. If it works for ESD chat, it could be expanded to the forums and we can kill the "Endgame Constitution" threads before they begin.
At least this solution fixes a real problem...
Neither would be a "real" problem if you either:
A: Turn off Zone Chat
and
B: Don't read/post in threads that bother you so much.
A dil sink is by far the primary objective. The trick is figuring out an ethically permissible sink and also one that adds to the game rather than subtracts.
Adding a compelling new factor to gameplay on a global scale is a GLOBAL solution to this widespread problem.
These "neener neener" troll posts don't contribute anything except grasping at shame and piling it up all around. Out of simple decent concern for my brothers and sisters, I have to criticize them in a clear voice.
I am one of the people, by the way, who sunk dil into fast tracking crafting.
What sto needs most of all is for stakes to be added. When your ship explodes, there should be say a 10% chance that one of your items is destroyed. Items that could be reclaimed for free like prize ship and c store consoles should be excluded from this.
What I mean is, if your ship blows up, you should have a 10% chance of losing at random one of your weapons, consoles, engine, deflector, etc.
This loss should be permanent and require purchasing a new one from fleet or rep stores.
I also think that in PvP the chance of an item being destroyed on death should be much higher, as high as 30%.
PvP is obnoxiously boring in STO because there are no stakes at all involved.
Stakes make games compelling and immersive because they increase by a large factor the excitement of playing.
Since the game sorely needs new dil sinks, this would also help with dil inflation by forcing people who failed in combat to purchase new dil-cost items.
This is the entire extent of your OP about dilithium sinks. If you are stating that it is your primary concern, then you would have it up front and center and not at the end with just a minor mention about it. You would start the post by saying that there is a serious problem with dil inflation and item destruction would deal with it. You would not say that this would also help with dil inflation at the end of your post.
To most of us, the post indicates your primary concern is increasing the risk in the game by adding item destruction while it causing a dilithium sink is one of the benefits it will bring about.
Therefore you have to convince us how fun destroying our equipment is when we die. If we can't see how fun it is, then there is no way any of us will do it.
Yeah Druk's trolling. I'm somewhat familiar with him; I don't like him that much, but he's not this stupid. And his whole "working man" line pretty much clinches it. Say hi to the new Nabreeki, I guess?
Yeah Druk's trolling. I'm somewhat familiar with him; I don't like him that much, but he's not this stupid. And his whole "working man" line pretty much clinches it. Say hi to the new Nabreeki, I guess?
Most of us figured this out already... We are just keeping it going to see how much rope he uses.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Why did prices for zen used to be 100 hider than they were now?
Because there was almost no demand for dil. Because dil wasnt sinked out by anything.
When fleets came, this created a big new dil sink and greatly increased the demand for dil.
Now that fleets are finished (a fleet really only need to make provisions now and can have all the things, thanks to NoP Public Service providers), those once ravenous sinks are gone from the world.
This has cut the demand for dil roughly in half, given the change in zen prices.
Dude, do you even know the first thing about economics? Under a Capitalist economy, a higher demand RAISES prices. It does not lower them.
OP if you are saying you have so much dilithium it bothers you, I can honestly say you lost contact with reality/the game.
I can kind of relate to the point that the game stagnates when you don't have anything to buy or work towards but you are not even asking for new content or items, ships or whatever either.
So yeah, crazy talk start to finish
Does seem to happen if people "play the exchange" for too long.
That and ocassional Troll Threads.
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
Much bigger changes have already been added 'mid stream.'
Lets be frank here, there is an undeniable overwhelming need for new dil sinks to control the appalling run-up to the price of zen, and ameliorate the harm it has done to the workingman, to whom we all owe such a debt of gratitude.
What other dil sink would be effective enough?
Before the idea of Item Destruction came to me, I had strongly considered advocating for an across-the-board doubling of dil costs for gear.
It struck me though that this may not be entirely ethically permissable. For instance, it punishes, for no morally significant reason, new players over old ones. New players who do not yet have their gear would be forced to pay twice as much for their first set of gear as older players. If Justice is Fairness, then this is unjust.
The beauty of the beneficial proposal in the OP is that it affects everyone the same. Each person chooses how much risk he wants to accrue, and in return gets an advantage that tightly scales with the risk.
It also will encourage a new golden age of ship builds, breaking down forever the ugly, soulless dictatorship of DPS glass cannons. It might even start to look more like a star trek game.
All these benefits taken into account, and so few negatives presenting, it's hard to believe anyone with a genuine and positive concern for the betterment of this game and of his fellow man, and a good natured sympathy for the workingman, could oppose the beneficial proposal mentioned above.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Many amendments have been made to the proposal in the OP because of feedback and pressure from the community.
Watching the story of these amendment unfold paints a bigger picture, and is the road to the truth.
I recall specifically the amendment related to Item Destruction occuring in PvP. With the best possible intentions for improving the game while finding a GLOBAL solution to the problem of out of control zen prices, I withdrew that amendment.
I refuse to let the perfect become the enemy of the good. The vital need for a dil sink, for which the workingman cries out, is more important than improving PvP for the three or four dozen people who make up the PvP Micro-Minority.
I was willing to give ground, where have the critics and haters been willing to compromise?
Nope, I'm no willing to compromise when you have faield at the most basic point of logic in an argument. You have failed toestablish your premise.
"The workingman cries out" for this? Really? Who and where? As mentioned before, I am one of The working men and I don't see it. Making a universal statement such as that is disproved by a single counter-example. So that claim is now disproved.
The Dil sink being required, well, as the "workingman" crying out for it is your reason and it has been disproven, try another argument that isn't as full of holes as swiss cheese.
Based on the way he talks Repetitveepic obviously doesn't take his own thread seriously or maybe even believe what he himself is saying.
Just trying to a reaction.
Well this was my last one.
Bye.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
As many of us have pressed you to do, show us how truly you are in favor of this. Post a video showing you deleting a piece of rep or fleet gear when you are destroyed.
Only then will we take your "strong advocacy" seriously.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Comments
I exaggerate a lil but you get it.
Also, not to mention the hundreds of threads started against Non-Fail Missions and how there is no challenge in STO any more.
Oh you gotta link me that!
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Cant find it now, youtube is presenting all manner of random stuff when you search for it...
Sorry OP but this has to be the most terrible idea I ever read on the STO forum - developer ideas included
Your OP shows that the dilithium sink issue is merely secondary while the primary purpose of your thread is about "Stakes make games compelling and immersive because they increase by a large factor the excitement of playing." So if you are not willing to show us that destroying our items increases by a large factor the excitement of playing, then why should we do anything you say?
Deleting your items when you die shows dedication to your idea that item destruction somehow leads to fun and lower dilithium costs. Words are meaningless. The only thing that actually counts in this world is action.
The thing is that you can't create a dilithium sink through any action. Only the devs can create a dilithium sink and their most recent dilithium sink is Crafting. There are a bunch of people that sunk dilithium into crafting so they could craft level 15 items.
no you do not understand what others have been saying is you do what you are talking about lead by example and show them what you are talking about something you don't understand and call as gibberish it is called lead by example show everyone what you are talking about and since you don't lead by example then they will never do what you are talking about. So as others are saying to you over and over show them proof of what you are talking about lead by example and since you refuse to lead by example then shut the hell up about your idiotic idea until you show everyone with proof what you are talking about
Winston Churchill was once reported to have asked a lady would she sleep with him for a million pounds. She said yes. He then asks if she would for ten pounds. Her response was she was not that sort of woman. Churchill responded with "My dear, we have established what sort of woman you are, we are just negotiating on the price."
The story is most likely untrue/exaggerated, or refers to a different person and not Churchill, but it does have a point - that is, what is the difference between a million pounds and ten pounds, or, one person deleting their kit after a loss, and everyone deleting kit after a loss.
Your suggestion is telling everyone to delete their equipment after losing - fact is, everyone loses at some point, so you are telling people to delete their own items.
So, go to your local hobby store and buy a d10. If it comes up on "0" (or whatever number(s) you want) destroy your item. Then you can have your high stakes without imposing your lil "hardcore" mindset on the rest of us.
Yes, if you change the difficulity of PvE, the difficulty of PVE would change. Crazy, isn't it?
just going to point out as much as even normal mk 12 cost.
my stuff starts disappearing when I die I'm gone. and that coming from a "cryptic defender".
and your posting like a politician talks. I would stop before someone else finishes that line of thought.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I see...it's becoming clearer.
This makes more sense now that you bring it up. I was wondering about the crafting angle.
The dilithium sinking is only part of it. If people lose gear, then they naturally will hit the exchange, or so the thought goes, to replace it. As someone who has advanced his crafting through sinking dilithium, you would stand to make quite a bit from those who would want to stay on top.
Workingman indeed. Working the exchange maybe.
The zen/dilthium exchange is fine and doesn't need help. The current price is fairly healthy (maybe not for you).
look it seems like you have an explicit amount of dill if you don't want it we will help to solve your problem i personally know of 3 fleets that will take it of your hands.....
then you'll have a new sink
At least this solution fixes a real problem...
I can kind of relate to the point that the game stagnates when you don't have anything to buy or work towards but you are not even asking for new content or items, ships or whatever either.
So yeah, crazy talk start to finish
Very, very much so. One OP who seems to not take no as an answer and plenty of posters all too happy to keep the argument going. This thread should have died pages ago.
I could see the "injury" system on Elite setting being a bit harsher, and/or crafting being involved to repair things, but RNG item loss? Nah, wouldn't fly, not as the game is now and has been for years.
Noooooooooooo
nonnonononoononononononoononononono...
NO! :P
Neither would be a "real" problem if you either:
A: Turn off Zone Chat
and
B: Don't read/post in threads that bother you so much.
Simple as that.
True... But the idea would put some entertainment into chat.
This is the entire extent of your OP about dilithium sinks. If you are stating that it is your primary concern, then you would have it up front and center and not at the end with just a minor mention about it. You would start the post by saying that there is a serious problem with dil inflation and item destruction would deal with it. You would not say that this would also help with dil inflation at the end of your post.
To most of us, the post indicates your primary concern is increasing the risk in the game by adding item destruction while it causing a dilithium sink is one of the benefits it will bring about.
Therefore you have to convince us how fun destroying our equipment is when we die. If we can't see how fun it is, then there is no way any of us will do it.
Most of us figured this out already... We are just keeping it going to see how much rope he uses.
Dude, do you even know the first thing about economics? Under a Capitalist economy, a higher demand RAISES prices. It does not lower them.
Does seem to happen if people "play the exchange" for too long.
That and ocassional Troll Threads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Nope, I'm no willing to compromise when you have faield at the most basic point of logic in an argument. You have failed toestablish your premise.
"The workingman cries out" for this? Really? Who and where? As mentioned before, I am one of The working men and I don't see it. Making a universal statement such as that is disproved by a single counter-example. So that claim is now disproved.
The Dil sink being required, well, as the "workingman" crying out for it is your reason and it has been disproven, try another argument that isn't as full of holes as swiss cheese.
Based on the way he talks Repetitveepic obviously doesn't take his own thread seriously or maybe even believe what he himself is saying.
Just trying to a reaction.
Well this was my last one.
Bye.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Not good enough.
As many of us have pressed you to do, show us how truly you are in favor of this. Post a video showing you deleting a piece of rep or fleet gear when you are destroyed.
Only then will we take your "strong advocacy" seriously.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind