What sto needs most of all is for stakes to be added. When your ship explodes, there should be say a 10% chance that one of your items is destroyed. Items that could be reclaimed for free like prize ship and c store consoles should be excluded from this.
What I mean is, if your ship blows up, you should have a 10% chance of losing at random one of your weapons, consoles, engine, deflector, etc.
This loss should be permanent and require purchasing a new one from fleet or rep stores.
I also think that in PvP the chance of an item being destroyed on death should be much higher, as high as 30%.
PvP is obnoxiously boring in STO because there are no stakes at all involved.
Stakes make games compelling and immersive because they increase by a large factor the excitement of playing.
Since the game sorely needs new dil sinks, this would also help with dil inflation by forcing people who failed in combat to purchase new dil-cost items.
with a free reclaim its just an inconvience of having to troll through the reclaim tab needlessly. i dont see the point in this idea at all.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
you state that there is a tab to reclaim an item to be destroyed, so when its destroyed, you goto the tab and reclaim it but what difference does that make at all? the item is still back on the ship after the item destruction and incidentally the ship and then reclaim and reslot. all you have done is just given players a little bit more work to find the reclaim tab each time for a destroyed part and replace it.
if on the other hand you decide well the reclaim tab makes the whole idea redundant, players will not be happy at having grind away yet more and more gear for a destroyed part one day. it would be such a huge waste of time and resources that elite repeatables will either have to be played a lot more aggressive or conservative with a team, even to the point of loosing optional objectives to stay alive and keep each other alive. i just cant see it happening that way because its just too big a penalty for the less fortunate and i doubt the cryptic team are willing to step on that landmine for your convenience.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact.
The fact is, you won't provide examples. If you were doing such and we continued to attack you and only you, then it might be an ad hominem attack. However, we are attacking your willingness to see this proposal through.
In essence, we want you to practice what you preach. Until then, you are engaging in "do as I say, not as I do" reasoning.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Lets be frank here, there is an undeniable overwhelming need for new dil sinks to control the appalling run-up to the price of zen, and ameliorate the harm it has done to the workingman
And the reason it's a problem is: that entire statement is nonsense.
6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The fact remains that you have yet to clearly establish your premise, and thus your entire argument lacks validity.
In short, while I'm not arguing "Put up or shut up" Like some otherw, I am agreeing that you sound more like a classical Idology over reality politician than someone attempting to prove a reasonable point.
6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The fact remains that you have yet to clearly establish your premise, and thus your entire argument lacks validity.
In short, while I'm not arguing "Put up or shut up" Like some otherw, I am agreeing that you sound more like a classical Idology over reality politician than someone attempting to prove a reasonable point.
And what do I sound like an ideologue over...or do you even realize who you quoted as opposed to who you appear to think you're speaking to? :rolleyes:
You go out and ask people, ask anyone, would you rather zen be cheaper and easier to grind for?
You cant sit in your ivory tower and make proclamations, kiralyn, you have to go out there and get your feet wet and your hands dirty, if you want to understand the plight of the workingman you need to meet him and talk to him.
Then I hope you'll open your eyes to the need for a GLOBAL solution to the intolerably high price of zen.
And here we see a failed assumption: would we like Zen to be cheaper (those of us who are buying it with Dil) Well, yeah, of course we would, and those selling it would like it to cost more for the same sort of purely selfish economic reasons.
The problem is, you said "Ask anyone" That is the same as using the "all men" Argument. The Sellers likely don't want it to be cheaper, so unless you are denying thier humanity, then your argument fails because we have counter examles to your universalist claim.
also, considering you sound liek a marxsist (Or a liberal or a tea party) activist in your "Workingman" arguments, be careful of hurling stones at others Ivory towers, the windws in yours will get holes int hem!
And here we see a failed assumption: would we like Zen to be cheaper (those of us who are buying it with Dil) Well, yeah, of course we would, and those selling it would like it to cost more for the same sort of purely selfish economic reasons.
The problem is, you said "Ask anyone" That is the same as using the "all men" Argument. The Sellers likely don't want it to be cheaper, so unless you are denying thier humanity, then your argument fails because we have counter examles to your universalist claim.
also, considering you sound liek a marxsist (Or a liberal or a tea party) activist in your "Workingman" arguments, be careful of hurling stones at others Ivory towers, the windws in yours will get holes int hem!
Would you please stop quoting me then posting to the OP, FFS?!?
And what do I sound like an ideologue over...or do you even realize who you quoted as opposed to who you appear to think you're speaking to? :rolleyes:
Here's you a much-needed clue: I'm not the OP.
Quite aware that you are not the OP, I'm also quite aware that, as you brought up logical constructs with your mention of the ad homenim, that attacking the basic, fundamental structure of your claim was emminently fair game.
So, a simple challenge: As i am one who gbuys Zen with Dil and am a workingman and I do not agree with you , can you restructure your argument to incorporate these facts or are you going to keep claiming a triumph of doctorine over reality?
Quite aware that you are not the OP, I'm also quite aware that, as you brought up logical constructs with your mention of the ad homenim, that attacking the basic, fundamental structure of your claim was emminently fair game.
So, a simple challenge: As i am one who gbuys Zen with Dil and am a workingman and I do not agree with you , can you restructure your argument to incorporate these facts or are you going to keep claiming a triumph of doctorine over reality?
I'm not talking about cash money millionaires scott, I'm here for the workingman, for him, not for the other.
And with that, I bow out, it is obvious that you are either not reading my posts, have a failure to comprehend them, or an unwillingness to do so.
In either event, It's obvious you cannot reframe your argument and that we cannot have a discussion on the subject because what you feel is rational and universal, I see as high minded theory divorced from reality.
Have a nice day, but I'm pretty sure the devs won't pick up the torch you are carrying.
I'm not talking about cash money millionaires scott, I'm here for the workingman, for him, not for the other.
Some of the guys selling Zen for dilithium are also working men. A few bucks, a few bucks there, catching the 15% off sale, and soon you have some Zen to sell.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
This has to be the most insane idea I've heard in a while. We need item destruction because Dil sink? You evidently aren't playing the game holding on to Dil is like trying to carry water in a fork. Starbases, Embassies, Spires, Dilithium Mines, provisioning of them, Reputation projects, weapons... Dil bleeds off like an artery has been cut. Why do you think the stuff is so damn pricey on the exchange?!?
Fewer Dil sinks would allow players to build up MORE, thus causing a drop in exchange prices. Dil would be cheap cheap. Your way, prices will go higher because well... people know you would need more of it to recraft those items you lost.
I read one of two things with this idea:
A) Someone made your ship es-plodey a few times and you hope that when someone whacks them it it will make it so you can es-plodey them later because Gear Gone. Someone you thought you could take easy almost made you es-plodey so you hope that they will lose some gear so you won't have to worry about going es-plodey next time you jump them.
A better way to close the gap between Zen and Dilithium would be lowering all the Dil costs around the game while giving a bit more Dil as rewards.
Show us how well it works. You've already been challenged. Grab a 10-sided die (I think I got a spare you can have), when your ship explodes, roll it and if you get a zero, delete a piece of equipment. No, not that common one you can buy on the exchange, I mean the one you had to sink 20,000 Dil into. Then tell us how great it was losing it.
If you are going to make the proposal, then you need to provide a test case for it. Since you are the one that thinks it will be so great for us all, SHOW US.
Make a video where you go in PvP and every time you get killed, you delete an item from the ship. Continue doing this for a few matches. Upload the video.
How would this lead to a rising supply of Dilithium? Where exactly do you think Dil comes from, the stork? Would you have Dil magically appear in your bank to replace the missing items?
The Dilithium supply has nothing to do with PvP. It comes from STFs, DOff missions, and mining. Losing items won't make the supply of Dil increase, any more than firing workers from a manufacturing plant makes more money suddenly appear (it can lead to a short-term increase in profits, of course, as you've just reduced your overhead, but the consequent reduction in production generally leads to lower profits in the long term).
The Working Man has no need of additional "sinks" to reduce his available resources. There are plenty already. If you have too much Dil, my fleet could use someone with tons of it to help complete our projects - we're only up to level 3 on the Starbase and Dil Mine, level 1 on the Embassy, and still level 0 at the Spire.
Well considering that a member of Dental has officially, in essence, given OP's initial posts and subsequent replies their seal of approval....can we just consider this thread no longer a serious topic, but just a joke that should've died out ages ago?
Well considering that a member of Dental has officially, in essence, given OP's initial posts and subsequent replies their seal of approval....can we just consider this thread no longer a serious topic, but just a joke that should've died out ages ago?
In fairness: nabreeki Often adds a opposing voice to the general attitude...
It may be trolling, it may be conscious or unconscious playing "devils advocate"... He does it alot... Generally always seems to have the opposite opinion than everyone else... I don't know.
But he does force people to view at different angles... So like him or not... He at least adds more substance to his arguments than the OP does..
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Skimmed through some of the amusing posts in this thread. Not sure why players are bothering to reply to the OP. Cryptic will never implement such a system. It completely conflicts their grind / pay to win model.
As for the whole dilithium / zen thing ...
Grinding dilithium for gear is a total waste of time! Go get a job (part time even or even informal) and get some exercise. Take some of the earnings and covert to zen and pay someone else to slave over the dilithium at 10 cents an hour or less!
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
This is my point. People have contempt for the workingman. Whose side should we fall on, the side of the mouth that speaks words of contempt, and the heart that holds feelings of contempt, or the side of the workingman, whose heart beats with weariness and whose brow sweats.
The side that you are not on.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Comments
We see what we want to see
To the powerful and the wise
The mirror always lies.
with a free reclaim its just an inconvience of having to troll through the reclaim tab needlessly. i dont see the point in this idea at all.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
And you accuse other people of gibberish? Ok honey.:rolleyes: Byebye.
(sorry had to get that in before I went.)
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
you state that there is a tab to reclaim an item to be destroyed, so when its destroyed, you goto the tab and reclaim it but what difference does that make at all? the item is still back on the ship after the item destruction and incidentally the ship and then reclaim and reslot. all you have done is just given players a little bit more work to find the reclaim tab each time for a destroyed part and replace it.
if on the other hand you decide well the reclaim tab makes the whole idea redundant, players will not be happy at having grind away yet more and more gear for a destroyed part one day. it would be such a huge waste of time and resources that elite repeatables will either have to be played a lot more aggressive or conservative with a team, even to the point of loosing optional objectives to stay alive and keep each other alive. i just cant see it happening that way because its just too big a penalty for the less fortunate and i doubt the cryptic team are willing to step on that landmine for your convenience.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact.
The fact is, you won't provide examples. If you were doing such and we continued to attack you and only you, then it might be an ad hominem attack. However, we are attacking your willingness to see this proposal through.
In essence, we want you to practice what you preach. Until then, you are engaging in "do as I say, not as I do" reasoning.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
And the reason it's a problem is: that entire statement is nonsense.
Fixed that for ya. :cool:
6 of 1, half dozen of the other. The fact remains that you have yet to clearly establish your premise, and thus your entire argument lacks validity.
In short, while I'm not arguing "Put up or shut up" Like some otherw, I am agreeing that you sound more like a classical Idology over reality politician than someone attempting to prove a reasonable point.
And what do I sound like an ideologue over...or do you even realize who you quoted as opposed to who you appear to think you're speaking to? :rolleyes:
Here's you a much-needed clue: I'm not the OP.
And here we see a failed assumption: would we like Zen to be cheaper (those of us who are buying it with Dil) Well, yeah, of course we would, and those selling it would like it to cost more for the same sort of purely selfish economic reasons.
The problem is, you said "Ask anyone" That is the same as using the "all men" Argument. The Sellers likely don't want it to be cheaper, so unless you are denying thier humanity, then your argument fails because we have counter examles to your universalist claim.
also, considering you sound liek a marxsist (Or a liberal or a tea party) activist in your "Workingman" arguments, be careful of hurling stones at others Ivory towers, the windws in yours will get holes int hem!
Would you please stop quoting me then posting to the OP, FFS?!?
Quite aware that you are not the OP, I'm also quite aware that, as you brought up logical constructs with your mention of the ad homenim, that attacking the basic, fundamental structure of your claim was emminently fair game.
So, a simple challenge: As i am one who gbuys Zen with Dil and am a workingman and I do not agree with you , can you restructure your argument to incorporate these facts or are you going to keep claiming a triumph of doctorine over reality?
My god, you're as looney as the OP.
I am replying to your arguments on the subject. It is not my fault that your arguments are fundamentally flawerd.
And with that, I bow out, it is obvious that you are either not reading my posts, have a failure to comprehend them, or an unwillingness to do so.
In either event, It's obvious you cannot reframe your argument and that we cannot have a discussion on the subject because what you feel is rational and universal, I see as high minded theory divorced from reality.
Have a nice day, but I'm pretty sure the devs won't pick up the torch you are carrying.
Some of the guys selling Zen for dilithium are also working men. A few bucks, a few bucks there, catching the 15% off sale, and soon you have some Zen to sell.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Fewer Dil sinks would allow players to build up MORE, thus causing a drop in exchange prices. Dil would be cheap cheap. Your way, prices will go higher because well... people know you would need more of it to recraft those items you lost.
I read one of two things with this idea:
A) Someone made your ship es-plodey a few times and you hope that when someone whacks them it it will make it so you can es-plodey them later because Gear Gone.
A better way to close the gap between Zen and Dilithium would be lowering all the Dil costs around the game while giving a bit more Dil as rewards.
Dil Sinks in STO! We needz moar!
If you are going to make the proposal, then you need to provide a test case for it. Since you are the one that thinks it will be so great for us all, SHOW US.
Nope? yeah, didn't think so.
Make a video where you go in PvP and every time you get killed, you delete an item from the ship. Continue doing this for a few matches. Upload the video.
Deal.
The Dilithium supply has nothing to do with PvP. It comes from STFs, DOff missions, and mining. Losing items won't make the supply of Dil increase, any more than firing workers from a manufacturing plant makes more money suddenly appear (it can lead to a short-term increase in profits, of course, as you've just reduced your overhead, but the consequent reduction in production generally leads to lower profits in the long term).
The Working Man has no need of additional "sinks" to reduce his available resources. There are plenty already. If you have too much Dil, my fleet could use someone with tons of it to help complete our projects - we're only up to level 3 on the Starbase and Dil Mine, level 1 on the Embassy, and still level 0 at the Spire.
I already do.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
In fairness: nabreeki Often adds a opposing voice to the general attitude...
It may be trolling, it may be conscious or unconscious playing "devils advocate"... He does it alot... Generally always seems to have the opposite opinion than everyone else... I don't know.
But he does force people to view at different angles... So like him or not... He at least adds more substance to his arguments than the OP does..
My character Tsin'xing
As for the whole dilithium / zen thing ...
Grinding dilithium for gear is a total waste of time! Go get a job (part time even or even informal) and get some exercise. Take some of the earnings and covert to zen and pay someone else to slave over the dilithium at 10 cents an hour or less!
- Judge Aaron Satie
So do salesmen and politicians.
Considering this is the same person who just tried to get the Foundry to make a war crimes simulator?
You tell me.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
The side that you are not on.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy