If I'm not mistaken, in Nemesis Data provided B4 with his memories and Geordi asked if this was a good idea. Data stated he thought he should have his memories in order to help him develop his own individualism.
As far as what happened in the years or decades after this, I am not familiar and imagine Data would have been upset with them transferring his "essence" or "life" into B4 essentially stripping B4 of his own life or individualism. As some people have mentioned it seems this happened anyway, where was this literature written if i may ask?
Edit: Here's Memory Beta's summary of the events described in the novel:
After an extensive study at the Soong Foundation by a dedicated science team and Geordi La Forge, the group manage to unravel the Data matrix allowing for all of Data's memories, personality and experiences to override B-4. When the restored Data first gained consciousness, he objected to the fact that his restoration was at B-4's expense, and immediately attempted to destroy his own consciousness to preserve B-4. However, B-4 sacrificed himself to prevent Data from dying. Through this, the android was able to help the Soong Foundation in upgrading the positronic brain and help in the recreation of the emotion chip originally developed by Doctor Soong. Ambassador Spock likened it to his resurrection a hundred and two years previously, though Data likened it more to a return. (ST - Countdown comic: "Number Two"; STO novel: The Needs of the Many; ST website: The Path to 2409)
By 2387, Data was active in Starfleet and had risen to the rank of Captain. Data assumed command of the Enterprise-E, after the retirement of Captain Picard from Starfleet. (ST - Countdown comics: "Number One", "Number Two")
In 2390, Jake Sisko came aboard the Enterprise for an interview with Data. Data gave his thoughts regarding future Borg attacks and whether Species 8472 had reached Federation space; the captain refused to discuss the events of his "recovery." It should be noted that in the transcript of the interview, Data uses a verbal contraction, whatever it may mean. (ST website: The Path to 2409)
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
If I'm not mistaken, in Nemesis Data provided B4 with his memories and Geordi asked if this was a good idea. Data stated he thought he should have his memories in order to help him develop his own individualism.
As far as what happened in the years or decades after this, I am not familiar and imagine Data would have been upset with them transferring his "essence" or "life" into B4 essentially stripping B4 of his own life or individualism. As some people have mentioned it seems this happened anyway, where was this literature written if i may ask?
I'm not sure where it was written, I presume in a room of some sort.:P
But whether it was or was not written in a room it's an interesting read and you might want to check it out. The book is called "The Needs of the Many"
As far as what happened in the years or decades after this, I am not familiar and imagine Data would have been upset with them transferring his "essence" or "life" into B4 essentially stripping B4 of his own life or individualism. As some people have mentioned it seems this happened anyway, where was this literature written if i may ask?
A lot of this was covered in cbs' countdown comic. The comic series was a bridge covering the historical information between nemesis and the destruction of romulus leading into the new star trek movie. At that point Data had been restored and was the captain of the enterprise e.
The sto novel needs of the many and the path to 2409 tries to fill in some of the more personal information about the process. The comic series didn't go into great detail, only that Data had been restored and made captain.
I know this is nothing but a Troll having fun but here I go:
There were Robert April and Christopher Pike before the Series' Commanders but not much is known in the Prime Universe of their time before the Big E.
James T. Kirk - He was a complete Nobody before he assumed Command, let 200 Crewman AND his Captain be killed because he panicked and only rose to prominence AS Captain of the Enterprise, his first command, not before.
John Harriman - I don't know about the Books or Comics about him but it seems like the Enterprise was also his first Command and he was completely overwhelmed by the Task at first...
Rachel Garret - Again, not much know beside her flaming exit.
Picard - Had a brief Command before the Enterprise and lost his Ship and was... he's the only Captain that actually did something before getting the Big E and could be considered "Good" before assuming Command, still even his most prominent and most eventful stunts were AS Captain of the Enterprise and still I have to add that NO ONE of his old crew accompanied him to the Enterprise.
All these Characters did all these wonderful things you parade as evidence against Shon AS they were captaining the Enterprise NOT before and only Picard could be considered really having "earned" the Command Seat of the Enterprise as at least 2 Captains went to the Enterprise as their first command and the others were so boring there were not much said about them ever.
Shon on the other hand successfully commanded the Belfast for quite some time even during War, helped you, the obivous hero of your own series (read as: STO the Game), with your task and although being a little bit unnerving at first actually GREW during the relative short time as Captain of the Enterprise and even stopped Sugihara, something not even you as a Player would be able to short of a Phaser Blast to the Head and admitted that they, that he, was wrong that is more Character growth than all of Kirk together...
Disclaimer: I don't want to bash any Captain, I love them all, just stating facts as far as I am aware of them.
This is basically my response to everyone that proclaims Shon isn't a fit Enterprise captain. It's silly, since no one becomes an Enterprise captain *before* they're an Enterprise captain.
An Enterprise captain isn't a Mary Sue; they rise, they trip, they fall, they rise again, they improve, they grow, stuff happens.
A comparison I heard made in zone chat at one point: "Shon lost his last command! Picard was the best Enterprise captain!" Well, gee, didn't Picard lose his first command before the Enterprise? What was it again...Stargazer? =P Far as I know, both lost their prior commands to Enterprise by fulfilling their duties, so maybe it *is* a good comparison. =P
Speaking of Picard, I remember that a lot of Trek fans had a hard time adjusting to him as the captain of the Enterprise at first, being what seemed like a "grumpy, bald old man." That certainly changed, didn't it?
Anyway, this whole thread is moot, since Data has been established as turning down the Ent-F captaincy offer and retiring in STO fiction, Brent Spiner is expensive, and Shon has already been captain for some time now. A bit late to the party, this thread.
This is basically my response to everyone that proclaims Shon isn't a fit Enterprise captain. It's silly, since no one becomes an Enterprise captain *before* they're an Enterprise captain.
Um, both Kirk and Picard were captains of an Enterprise before they became captains of an Enterprise.
Seriously...how many people want some blue guy in command of The Enterprise?
It is generally assumed that The Enterprise E was lost or decommissioned before the commissioning of The Enterprise F, but it is also believed that Data is still alive as of 2409. So here is my question - if Data is still alive...why is Shon in command of The Enterprise F? Wouldn;t Data be the obvious choice?
Some blue guy..I thought racism was long gone from the federation.
Capt. shon is fine I just wished that Cryptic stuck to the canon of what happened to the real cast this being Data is dead and plase don't debate this with me as it is true.If not then Capt Kirk,Tasha Yar and Jadiza Dax is very much alive.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer Star Trek Gamers
According to Memory Alpha: "Her symbiont was saved and transferred to another Trill, Ezri Tigan, who became Ezri Dax". Data transfered himself into B-4 in a canon Movie. Therefore..... yeah.
Kirk is deader than the doornail he fell on unless you count some of the books.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Capt. shon is fine I just wished that Cryptic stuck to the canon of what happened to the real cast this being Data is dead and plase don't debate this with me as it is true.If not then Capt Kirk,Tasha Yar and Jadiza Dax is very much alive.
The link to the countdown prequel is above. Feel free to read it.
Capt. shon is fine I just wished that Cryptic stuck to the canon of what happened to the real cast this being Data is dead and plase don't debate this with me as it is true.If not then Capt Kirk,Tasha Yar and Jadiza Dax is very much alive.
Not this again. Data's alive in the game storyline. Get the **** over it.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Maybe the game but in lore of Trek Data is dead like Obbie One Kanobi is or even Darth Vader.
Spock was dead too, until his consciousness was transferred into a new body. The same thing happened with Data. Resurrections happen all the time in sci-fi.
Disney could even decide to take Obiwan's or Anakin's essence out of the force and reincarnate them in new bodies, played by new actors, maybe even females in Disney Princess outfits
Maybe the game but in lore of Trek Data is dead like Obbie One Kanobi is or even Darth Vader.
Well that depends how you judge the "lore of Trek"; if you judge it by official canon, then Data is alive as of the canonical "Countdown" series; if you judge it by STO canon, then Data is alive as of the canonical "Countdown" series.
If you judge it by some weird, personal standard where everyone else's views can go to hell because they don't fit in with your own, then sure, Data is dead as you like.
If I own the intellectual property to something, I decide what is canon and what is not. If CBS Studios owns the Star Trek IP, and they say Data is alive, then he is alive.
If I own a car and paint it from blue to red, then my car is red. If someone preferred my car blue, then they have no say over whether or not it is still blue to them. It's my car. I decide what to do with it.
The only time fans decide what is canon and what is not is when Star Trek becomes part of the public domain. But it isn't, so they don't. If fans create something (like the Luna-class, Vesta-class, or Odyssey-class), and CBS stamps it as canon, then it's canon. But it's not because the fans made it. It's because CBS Studios allowed them to make it.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Maybe the game but in lore of Trek Data is dead like Obbie One Kanobi is or even Darth Vader.
The fact that you can't even decide what is lore and what isn't, your statement is about as useful as a screen door on the Enterprise's air lock.
We don't care about the show. All we care about is the GAME. According to the game, Data Commanded the Enterprise E and brought her home to be decomissioned and infact talked to Shon right before Shon took command of the F.
Face it kids,, Data could of but didn't. Shon is captain, and IMHO a good one.
Everybody whines that he has no story. Guess what, he hasn't been around that long and ofcourse he has little to no back story.
Give the man a chance.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
while data being the captain of enterprise-F would be awesome, having a non-human captain of the federation flagship is past due(i don't think data "counts" since he is an android that wanted to more human), but since cryptic sucks at writing, we got shon, who is a hotheaded reckless fool protected by plot armor(last part comes with being captain of the enterprise though).
i don't think we need data, so much as cryptic needs a better writer lol.
while data being the captain of enterprise-F would be awesome, having a non-human captain of the federation flagship is past due(i don't think data "counts" since he is an android that wanted to more human), but since cryptic sucks at writing, we got shon, who is a hotheaded reckless fool protected by plot armor(last part comes with being captain of the enterprise though).
i don't think we need data, so much as cryptic needs a better writer lol.
Oh shon is SOOO horrible. Lets run down the list of captains shall we?
Kirk was a womanizing narcissist who STOLE the Original Enterprise and the ONLY thing that saved him from life in prison for treason was the fact he was lucky enough to save earth from that probe.
Picard was a taciturn stern and broke every rule when it suited him but god forbid somebody under his command break the rules.
Janeway...well psycopath who broke the prime directive when it suited her. Even broke the Omega directive.
Sisko antagonized Q, poisoned a world to catch one renegade who betrayed him, resigned his commission when ever he felt like it and went AWOL to pursue a religious war.
I mean really, every captain we've had of the enterprise of a major command has some kind of fault and racks up an impressive black marks checklist.
I fail to see the issues with Shon.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Oh shon is SOOO horrible. Lets run down the list of captains shall we?
Kirk was a womanizing narcissist who STOLE the Original Enterprise and the ONLY thing that saved him from life in prison for treason was the fact he was lucky enough to save earth from that probe.
Picard was a taciturn stern and broke every rule when it suited him but god forbid somebody under his command break the rules.
Janeway...well psycopath who broke the prime directive when it suited her. Even broke the Omega directive.
Sisko antagonized Q, poisoned a world to catch one renegade who betrayed him, resigned his commission when ever he felt like it and went AWOL to pursue a religious war.
I mean really, every captain we've had of the enterprise of a major command has some kind of fault and racks up an impressive black marks checklist.
I fail to see the issues with Shon.
yes, you're right, shon is perfect, all other ST captains are horribly written , i can already see CBS jumping at the opportunity to make a new movie on prime ST universe featuring shon. :rolleyes:
yes, you're right, shon is perfect, all other ST captains are horribly written , i can already see CBS jumping at the opportunity to make a new movie on prime ST universe featuring shon. :rolleyes:
oh come on, no one here has said Shon is perfect (and either way, that sarcasm was the fact that every captain had their worse moments, no matter how well-intentioned or even justified they were to us)
he's just not terrible either
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The same issues people have with Picard in the early 90's.
"New things, new ideas, and new situations scare me and make me want to curl up into a fetal position and suck my thumb while watching TOS which is the only real Star Trek ever. And anyone who disagrees with me hates Star Trek and shouldn't be listened to because they don't really love Star Trek the way I do, otherwise they would agree with me."
People hate change. They fear change. They fear new things.
Which is sad, since that's what Star Trek is about. A show about new things, breaking down the walls, and finding out how different people can be.
But to me, that's what makes all this fanboy pearl-clutching over Shon so unbelievably funny. And why I can't take complaints about Shon or the Enterprise-F seriously.
Shon never sat well with me. He struck me as far too insensitive, grating, and aggressive to make a good Starfleet captain, let alone captain of the Enterprise. He lost all credibility in my eyes in the previous FE when he ignored diplomacy and started arguing with everyone that the new sphere belongs to the Federation... and now he's winning it back in the new FE.
Character development, or a one time thing? I hope the former. Maybe--just maybe--he'll make a decent captain yet.
The same issues people have with Picard in the early 90's.
"New things, new ideas, and new situations scare me and make me want to curl up into a fetal position and suck my thumb while watching TOS which is the only real Star Trek ever. And anyone who disagrees with me hates Star Trek and shouldn't be listened to because they don't really love Star Trek the way I do, otherwise they would agree with me."
People hate change. They fear change. They fear new things.
Which is sad, since that's what Star Trek is about. A show about new things, breaking down the walls, and finding out how different people can be.
But to me, that's what makes all this fanboy pearl-clutching over Shon so unbelievably funny. And why I can't take complaints about Shon or the Enterprise-F seriously.
My biggest complaint with Shon is that I think Andorians are too obscure and goofy looking to be effective brand ambassadors. Having an Andorian Captain seems like a very "preaching to the choir" move.
I could see a Klingon, Romulan, or Vulcan since those both exist in pop culture and across pretty much all versions of Star Trek. I could see a human or someone who looks human-ish like Mackenzie Calhoun because humans like and relate to humans.
I think Andorians make fine supporting players in Trek but it just feels like brand suicide to have that be anyone's first Enterprise Captain. And I'd like to think that STO could be someone's first Star Trek while attracting and preapring people to enjoy the old shows and new films, comics, and books.
It's one thing if services are held in Latin out of respect for tradition but quite another if your field missionaries are out speaking Latin when seeking converts. An Andorian captain seems like a missionary who speaks only Latin to me.
Comments
Largely from the STO novel, The Needs of the Many.
Edit: Here's Memory Beta's summary of the events described in the novel:
I'm not sure where it was written, I presume in a room of some sort.:P
But whether it was or was not written in a room it's an interesting read and you might want to check it out. The book is called "The Needs of the Many"
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/The_Needs_of_the_Many
*EDIT: jeffel82 beat me to it*
I say: put Laurel in command. She has been around for a while. She should have easily made Captain if not Admiral by now.
The sto novel needs of the many and the path to 2409 tries to fill in some of the more personal information about the process. The comic series didn't go into great detail, only that Data had been restored and made captain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown
This is basically my response to everyone that proclaims Shon isn't a fit Enterprise captain. It's silly, since no one becomes an Enterprise captain *before* they're an Enterprise captain.
An Enterprise captain isn't a Mary Sue; they rise, they trip, they fall, they rise again, they improve, they grow, stuff happens.
A comparison I heard made in zone chat at one point: "Shon lost his last command! Picard was the best Enterprise captain!" Well, gee, didn't Picard lose his first command before the Enterprise? What was it again...Stargazer? =P Far as I know, both lost their prior commands to Enterprise by fulfilling their duties, so maybe it *is* a good comparison. =P
Speaking of Picard, I remember that a lot of Trek fans had a hard time adjusting to him as the captain of the Enterprise at first, being what seemed like a "grumpy, bald old man." That certainly changed, didn't it?
Anyway, this whole thread is moot, since Data has been established as turning down the Ent-F captaincy offer and retiring in STO fiction, Brent Spiner is expensive, and Shon has already been captain for some time now. A bit late to the party, this thread.
Um, both Kirk and Picard were captains of an Enterprise before they became captains of an Enterprise.
Some blue guy..I thought racism was long gone from the federation.
/10chars
Rayzee
excellentawesome#4589
torgaddon101
raeat
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Kirk is deader than the doornail he fell on unless you count some of the books.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Kirk is alive in the Nexus, just go in and find him, and another copy of Picard .
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Not this again. Data's alive in the game storyline. Get the **** over it.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Maybe the game but in lore of Trek Data is dead like Obbie One Kanobi is or even Darth Vader.
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
Spock was dead too, until his consciousness was transferred into a new body. The same thing happened with Data. Resurrections happen all the time in sci-fi.
Disney could even decide to take Obiwan's or Anakin's essence out of the force and reincarnate them in new bodies, played by new actors, maybe even females in Disney Princess outfits
Well that depends how you judge the "lore of Trek"; if you judge it by official canon, then Data is alive as of the canonical "Countdown" series; if you judge it by STO canon, then Data is alive as of the canonical "Countdown" series.
If you judge it by some weird, personal standard where everyone else's views can go to hell because they don't fit in with your own, then sure, Data is dead as you like.
Take your pick.
After the Latest FE, Is it really Shon?
If I own a car and paint it from blue to red, then my car is red. If someone preferred my car blue, then they have no say over whether or not it is still blue to them. It's my car. I decide what to do with it.
The only time fans decide what is canon and what is not is when Star Trek becomes part of the public domain. But it isn't, so they don't. If fans create something (like the Luna-class, Vesta-class, or Odyssey-class), and CBS stamps it as canon, then it's canon. But it's not because the fans made it. It's because CBS Studios allowed them to make it.
Deal with it.
The individual to whom you are replying does this all the time. It's not worth replying.
The fact that you can't even decide what is lore and what isn't, your statement is about as useful as a screen door on the Enterprise's air lock.
We don't care about the show. All we care about is the GAME. According to the game, Data Commanded the Enterprise E and brought her home to be decomissioned and infact talked to Shon right before Shon took command of the F.
Face it kids,, Data could of but didn't. Shon is captain, and IMHO a good one.
Everybody whines that he has no story. Guess what, he hasn't been around that long and ofcourse he has little to no back story.
Give the man a chance.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
i don't think we need data, so much as cryptic needs a better writer lol.
Oh shon is SOOO horrible. Lets run down the list of captains shall we?
Kirk was a womanizing narcissist who STOLE the Original Enterprise and the ONLY thing that saved him from life in prison for treason was the fact he was lucky enough to save earth from that probe.
Picard was a taciturn stern and broke every rule when it suited him but god forbid somebody under his command break the rules.
Janeway...well psycopath who broke the prime directive when it suited her. Even broke the Omega directive.
Sisko antagonized Q, poisoned a world to catch one renegade who betrayed him, resigned his commission when ever he felt like it and went AWOL to pursue a religious war.
I mean really, every captain we've had of the enterprise of a major command has some kind of fault and racks up an impressive black marks checklist.
I fail to see the issues with Shon.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
yes, you're right, shon is perfect, all other ST captains are horribly written , i can already see CBS jumping at the opportunity to make a new movie on prime ST universe featuring shon. :rolleyes:
he's just not terrible either
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
The same issues people have with Picard in the early 90's.
"New things, new ideas, and new situations scare me and make me want to curl up into a fetal position and suck my thumb while watching TOS which is the only real Star Trek ever. And anyone who disagrees with me hates Star Trek and shouldn't be listened to because they don't really love Star Trek the way I do, otherwise they would agree with me."
People hate change. They fear change. They fear new things.
Which is sad, since that's what Star Trek is about. A show about new things, breaking down the walls, and finding out how different people can be.
But to me, that's what makes all this fanboy pearl-clutching over Shon so unbelievably funny. And why I can't take complaints about Shon or the Enterprise-F seriously.
Character development, or a one time thing? I hope the former. Maybe--just maybe--he'll make a decent captain yet.
My biggest complaint with Shon is that I think Andorians are too obscure and goofy looking to be effective brand ambassadors. Having an Andorian Captain seems like a very "preaching to the choir" move.
I could see a Klingon, Romulan, or Vulcan since those both exist in pop culture and across pretty much all versions of Star Trek. I could see a human or someone who looks human-ish like Mackenzie Calhoun because humans like and relate to humans.
I think Andorians make fine supporting players in Trek but it just feels like brand suicide to have that be anyone's first Enterprise Captain. And I'd like to think that STO could be someone's first Star Trek while attracting and preapring people to enjoy the old shows and new films, comics, and books.
It's one thing if services are held in Latin out of respect for tradition but quite another if your field missionaries are out speaking Latin when seeking converts. An Andorian captain seems like a missionary who speaks only Latin to me.