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Kill Captain Shon - bring on Data

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    venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    jaguarskx wrote: »
    Getting back to the original topic, I would rather Cryptic spend the money they would need to pay Brent Spiner in order to use his likeness to make improvements to the game.

    The exception would if there is a huge potential would-be STO players out there that simply refuses to play STO unless they can see Data and hear him speak in STO.
    I think Cryptic should spend money to make STO overall better.

    Regardless about which star they bring into the fold, 'Star Trek: Online' is nowhere near the realm of "Star Trek".
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    moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited April 2014

    To say that we'll be better in a few hundred years is a reasonable supposition, since we're better now than we were a few hundred years ago: near-universal institutionalized slavery? Violent Imperialism? Deforestation of entire continents? Check, check and check.

    Imagine someone trying to get away with that in the US today. There's no way they could pull it off--they'd be burned at the stake (Metaphorically. We don't burn people at the stake anymore either.).

    The fact that we can look around and say the world today is horrible is not because things are worse than thay used to be, but because our standards have risen.

    Actually, we still do those things. Slavery has become "Bare minimum wage Job opportunities". Violent Imperialism has become "Social Imperialism under the guise of assisted democracy". We stop pulling up trees and instead opt to pull up the very earth itself, while also poisoning the atmosphere itself, thus rendering all those trees and their natural functions to be band aid fix so that way we stay alive a while longer.

    We may not burn people at the stake, but social imposed exile and deflamation of person's has made a heavy come back since Puritan times.

    The standards haven't actually risen, so to speak, we've just sort of....warped them so we know what we are doing is wrong but at the same time we can point to one thing and say "See? We did one thing right! That counts for something."

    That's why I say we're Firelfy. Firefly humans just embraced their shortcomings and opt to at least make an attempt to do as little damage as possible. It's not that bad of an existence. We're not wholy evil like the Terrans but we're not going to reach the pinnacle of goodness that is the Federation. We're just coasting in the middle of the stream and trying not to make too many waves.
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
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    edwardianededwardianed Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    If we go by what is happening in modern society, I can guarantee you that it will take thousands of years for us to reach universal democracy and peace. We currently have a Democrat party that wants to enslave everyone with laws.

    1. Why would we make assumptions on a future four hundred years from now based on what is happening in modern society? If we had judged the future by the present one hundred years ago, it would be natural to assume women would never get the vote.

    2. Who's this "we"? I don't have a Democrat party doing anything in the UK, let alone enslavement; perhaps you should think outside of a US-centric viewpoint before guaranteeing anything about our future.
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    venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    That's why I say we're Firelfy. Firefly humans just embraced their shortcomings and opt to at least make an attempt to do as little damage as possible. It's not that bad of an existence. We're not wholy evil like the Terrans but we're not going to reach the pinnacle of goodness that is the Federation. We're just coasting in the middle of the stream and trying not to make too many waves.
    Yeah, I agree.

    We will (1) begin the era of white slavery, (2) enter into a revolutionary war, or (3) enter into World War III by 2050. I know for a fact that our split ideologies will end badly.
    1. Why would we make assumptions on a future four hundred years from now based on what is happening in modern society?
    I am a psychologist and philosopher.

    History is repeating itself.
    2. Who's this "we"? I don't have a Democrat party doing anything in the UK, let alone enslavement; perhaps you should think outside of a US-centric viewpoint before guaranteeing anything about our future.
    You looked at the word 'enslavement' and you missed the words 'by laws'.

    UK has a massive problem with socialism. I think you call them Labor party?

    After we reached the new millennium, the progression of society had gone backwards.

    Technological-industrial revolution, (not information technologies revolution), is about to begin.
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    age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    I accept the video. I also accept that the backstory of this game clearly states the game took Nemesis up on the various foreshadowing hints it dropped that Data would resurface. Data's personality was made to arise and overwrite B-4. He would've lost at most a couple of weeks.

    Ergo, Data is alive in STO. QED.

    I also recall the time you tried to claim that First Contact lost money despite all evidence to the contrary.

    Ergo, you have a very tenuous grasp of reality. QED.

    As for Nemesis flopping, despite the fact that the film was, admittedly, TRIBBLE, the flop a lot had more to do with bad timing, as in having an opening night such that it was in direct competition with Die Another Day, The Two Towers, and Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. It didn't stand a chance with that competition.

    It did lose money though as reported in Star Trek Communicator the official fan Magazine.

    To me it was a bad idea to even ito mention anything about Data and it idn't resurface as b4 in the end it look like Picard is talking to a child.

    How do you think I feel and all those Kirk fans out there after Generations ?It is what sank the franchise.Don't tell me he is still alive in the nexus because it just an illusion nothing is real.It was pretty bad idea to even come up with it in a script.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
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    moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    Yeah, I agree.

    We will (1) begin the era of white slavery, (2) enter into a revolutionary war, or (3) enter into World War III by 2050. I know for a fact that our split ideologies will end badly.

    EXACTLY! Exactly. We're repeating the same actions we did in the past, but have modernized them to not be as bad. Slavery is not racially based, but rather monetarily based. People can deny you your right to live as a person not because of the color of your skin, but the amount of your income. We're starting civil warfare over minimum wage and employment practices but instead of the Union and the Confederacy, we're the Middle class and the Upper class. We're already in World War 3 with the Middle East and Asia, but we call it the War on Terror. But we still point out that we are going forward with TRIBBLE rights at every single turn. Why? Because we KNOW we've screwed up, but we're at least trying to have something good happen during this TRIBBLE.

    It's not denial. It's just accepting our situation and pointing out our attempts to be better.
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
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    trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    age03 wrote: »
    It did lose money though as reported in Star Trek Communicator the official fan Magazine.

    To me it was a bad idea to even ito mention anything about Data and it idn't resurface as b4 in the end it look like Picard is talking to a child.

    How do you think I feel and all those Kirk fans out there after Generations ?It is what sank the franchise.Don't tell me he is still alive in the nexus because it just an illusion nothing is real.It was pretty bad idea to even come up with it in a script.
    Actually, that's not true; even after being pulled out of the Nexus, Guinian said part of her is still there, despite existing outside of it.

    Kirk may have left, and died, but likely some part of him stuck around, just like Guinian

    And Nemesis (nearly) sank the franchise, not Kirk's death in Generations
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
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    age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    Seriously... what is the matter with you? Is it some form autism? If it is, then I sympathise with your plight and can understand your position on things; however sometimes I wonder if you're just an intransigent dolt who is utterly incapable of absorbing any sort of new information.

    All you ever do is come on the forums and post, in one way or another, "Nothing in this game is real trek, nothing past TOS is real trek, no-one but me is a real trekkie, and nothing's going to change that".

    What is the point of voluntarily taking part in a conversation if all you're going to do is proverbially put your fingers in your ears and hum over what anyone else is saying.

    Your behaviour honestly baffles me, and I'm not easily confused. Well done :confused:

    Stop your fing personal attacks on me.

    @trek21

    Go watch it again nothing is real in it.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
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    edwardianededwardianed Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    venkou wrote: »
    I am a psychologist and philosopher.

    History is repeating itself.


    You looked at the word 'enslavement' and you missed the words 'by laws'.

    UK has a massive problem with socialism. I think you call them Labor party?

    After we reached the new millennium, the progression of society had gone backwards.

    I am a lawyer and philosopher, I fail to see the relevance of our professions. (Except perhaps that I understand the law, and no legislature in the western world comes close to enacting enslavement; don't be so melodramatic.)

    And socialism is almost dead in the UK, Margaret Thatcher managed to crush Old Labour; privatisation is still progressing and individual rights are still being protected against pan-European federalism.

    The digital revolution, increasing world democracy, extended life expectancies, increasing educational accessibility, increasing quality of life in the third world, increasing state secularism, environmental awareness, and the spread of civil rights for social and ethnic minorities; you might think all of these post-millennial achievements are indicative of societal regression, I call them progress.
    age03 wrote: »
    Stop your fing personal attacks on me.

    Read my words more carefully, I didn't actually say anything about you; I made one paraphrase of things you have said, and asked several questions. There were no personal attacks.
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    age03 wrote: »
    Stop your fing personal attacks on me.

    Oh, you don't want to be called an idiot? Then you should stop acting like one.

    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it's a duck. If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    trek21trek21 Member Posts: 2,246 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    age03 wrote: »
    Stop your fing personal attacks on me.

    @trek21

    Go watch it again nothing is real in it.
    Explain to me then how it damaged the Enterprise-B, and kept Kirk alive for roughly 80 years without aging him a day since he was taken?

    What happens in there is more of a 'happy pill'-in-space type of thing, but that doesn't make it unreal. Illusions yes, but not unreal.
    Was named Trek17.

    Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it's a duck. If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.
    may i sig that, if it'll fit with what i've already got?
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
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    age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Oh, you don't want to be called an idiot? Then you should stop acting like one.

    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it's a duck. If it walks like an idiot, talks like an idiot, and acts like an idiot, it's a frakking idiot.

    Then why don't you stop trying to cause flame war Frack Head.STFU why don't you.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
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    moonshadowdarkmoonshadowdark Member Posts: 1,899 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »

    If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, then it's a duck.

    What about when Bugs Bunny puts on a Swim cap, flippers and a bill to convince Elmer it's Duck season?

    He looked like Daffy, quacked like Daffy and acted like Daffy.

    But WAS he daffy?
    "A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"

    -Leonard Nimoy, RIP
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What about when Bugs Bunny puts on a Swim cap, flippers and a bill to convince Elmer it's Duck season?

    He looked like Daffy, quacked like Daffy and acted like Daffy.

    But WAS he daffy?
    in elmer's mind, he was
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    edwardianededwardianed Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What about when Bugs Bunny puts on a Swim cap, flippers and a bill to convince Elmer it's Duck season?

    He looked like Daffy, quacked like Daffy and acted like Daffy.

    But WAS he daffy?

    Yeah, that's a fair point. The proverb is supposed to end with "it's probably a duck", but I can forgive the implication when faced with the Bug/Daffy conundrum. (Which should be the name of a philosophy thesis I'm sure).
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    age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    trek21 wrote: »
    Explain to me then how it damaged the Enterprise-B, and kept Kirk alive for roughly 80 years without aging him a day since he was taken?

    What happens in there is more of a 'happy pill'-in-space type of thing, but that doesn't make it unreal. Illusions yes, but not unreal.

    Watch where Kirks say nothing is real in here.It is 10:51.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4flM_skuv4

    @edwardianed

    stop trying contributing to flame war which this has gotten nothing but personal attacks on me from ppl who can't even act like adults.don't even try to get me going as I had a lot more flamey wars with others out there.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
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    berginsbergins Member Posts: 3,453 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Oh shon is SOOO horrible. Lets run down the list of captains shall we?

    Kirk was a womanizing narcissist who STOLE the Original Enterprise and the ONLY thing that saved him from life in prison for treason was the fact he was lucky enough to save earth from that probe.

    Picard was a taciturn stern and broke every rule when it suited him but god forbid somebody under his command break the rules.

    Janeway...well psycopath who broke the prime directive when it suited her. Even broke the Omega directive.

    Sisko antagonized Q, poisoned a world to catch one renegade who betrayed him, resigned his commission when ever he felt like it and went AWOL to pursue a religious war.

    I mean really, every captain we've had of the enterprise of a major command has some kind of fault and racks up an impressive black marks checklist.

    I fail to see the issues with Shon.
    What about Archer?
    "Logic is a little tweeting bird chirping in a meadow. Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers which smell BAD." - Spock
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    bergins wrote: »
    What about Archer?
    a lot of people would like to pretend that enterprise - and therefore archer by extension - doesn't exist
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    may i sig that, if it'll fit with what i've already got?

    Knock yourself out. :D
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    starswordcstarswordc Member Posts: 10,963 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    What about when Bugs Bunny puts on a Swim cap, flippers and a bill to convince Elmer it's Duck season?

    He looked like Daffy, quacked like Daffy and acted like Daffy.

    But WAS he daffy?

    No, 'cause he looked like a rabbit in a duck costume.
    "Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
    — Sabaton, "Great War"
    VZ9ASdg.png

    Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
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    legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,282 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    starswordc wrote: »
    Knock yourself out. :D
    i did

    unfortunately, the entire thing wouldn't fit, so i had to settle for just the second half
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • Options
    venkouvenkou Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I just want to thank everyone for the spirited debate.

    Captain of the Enterprise should be human, for it theoretically represents humanity's technological and social evolution. "Star Trek" has always been about exploring the human condition, and its potential to evolve into something slightly optimistic. Once you replace the captain with an alien, you disconnect the game from the franchise.

    "Star Trek" is our story.

    "Star Trek" is not a story about another species.

    Federation = Commentary on Human Diversity, Societal Evolution, Technological Revolution, etc...
    Klingons = Commentary on the Russians - Cold War
    Romulans = Commentary on the French - World War II - Traitors & Arrogance
    Vulcans = Commentary on the Buddhists - Enlightenment
    Ferengi = Commentary on Extreme Capitalism
    Bajoran = Commentary on two sides of a religious philosophy. (Catholic vrs. Protestant)
    Cardassian & Bajoran = Commentary on Hitler & World War II
    The Borg = Commentary on extreme socialism and extreme technological advancements.

    Data = Commentary on the Industrial Age.

    "Voyage Home" = Commentary on human driven extinction.
    "Undiscovered Country" = Commentary on the end of the Cold War.

    "The Final Frontier" & Q = Philosophical commentary about humanity evolving beyond the physical.

    "Star Trek" is about humanity.

    ...and, that is why the captain of the Enterprise needs to be a human, so "Star Trek" can be directly connected to our species.

    Its about us.
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    alexmakepeacealexmakepeace Member Posts: 10,633 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    But all those aliens, including Andorians, are essentially funny-looking humans. They're just different "races" of humans.

    Besides, STO isn't even about the Enterprise. It's about the player and his/her ship.
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    age03age03 Member Posts: 1,664 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    But all those aliens, including Andorians, are essentially funny-looking humans. They're just different "races" of humans.

    Besides, STO isn't even about the Enterprise. It's about the player and his/her ship.

    Good point it is about our Captians leave those other ones out.

    Federation = United Nations
    Klingons = Vikings
    Romulans = Romans
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Age StarTrek-Gamers Administrator
    USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
    Star Trek Gamers
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    chiyoumikuchiyoumiku Member Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    The way I see it, the Federation of Planets is a United Nations. It's about diversity in this Paradise Utopia. Evolution past monetary gains and racism. Therefore it is actually a bit of a slap in the face to star trek to be acting all xenophobic against Shon. The Captain Of The Enterprise is not required to be human. You can say "I don't hate him but I don't want him as a captain." But that is basically saying "I don't hate <ethnicity> but they can't have this job." It's another for of Xenophobia/Racism.

    And lets not forget the last part of this, the part where it's a video game.
    Sekhmet_Banner.jpg
    Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
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    thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    I think an Efrosian should be Captain of the Enterprise! If they are good enough to have once been President of the Federation then they are good enough to be Captain of the Flagship. :)
    STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
  • Options
    redheadguyredheadguy Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    nakedcrook wrote: »
    Seriously...how many people want some blue guy in command of The Enterprise?

    It is generally assumed that The Enterprise E was lost or decommissioned before the commissioning of The Enterprise F, but it is also believed that Data is still alive as of 2409. So here is my question - if Data is still alive...why is Shon in command of The Enterprise F? Wouldn;t Data be the obvious choice?

    First I want to say I like both Data AND Shon.
    1. Enterprise E was not lost, in fact they did return from a mission.
    2. Enterprise E was likely decommissioned shortly before the events of 2409
    3. Data would had been promoted following his extended mission,
    4. You're racist

    [COLOR="rgb(0, 191, 255)"]Now I have to agree with deaftravis05, you are indeed a racist. Sorry I'm being so cliche. [/COLOR]
    [SIGPIC]

    [/SIGPIC]
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    dkshadow9498dkshadow9498 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    I think an Efrosian should be Captain of the Enterprise! If they are good enough to have once been President of the Federation then they are good enough to be Captain of the Flagship. :)

    As long as they have Kurtwood Smith play the role again!

    "Klingon warrior...more like Klingon Dumbass"
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    iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited April 2014
    As long as they have Kurtwood Smith play the role again!

    "Klingon warrior...more like Klingon Dumbass"

    I'm about to activate Auxiliary Power to my Foot in your Aft.
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