i really dont understand the pvp hate. its the only game play that can keep me awake. the maps it plays out in are irreverent for the most part, its the interaction between player ships that makes every single match fresh and interesting. though not directly developed once since launch, at least half of the periodic new additions to the game are directly pvp focused, and have no reliance what so ever when your fighting npcs. this game was built and balanced with the player ships fighting each other in mind, though pve is the only thing thats gotten development, this still holds true.
all these bs excuses, oh they are all elitist, oh the power creep, oh the cookie cutters and FOTM, oh they are all cheating exploiters, all nonsense. you here these complaints about every single different group in every single different game. you dont like pvp because your not good at it. the pve did you no favors, it did the opposite of prepare you for pvp, it dumber you down. you can blunder through pve no mater what you bring, the only difference is how long it takes to win.
its really, REALLY not that hard to be a competent pvper though. i know the 'pros' look impossibly good compared to what you have ever been able to get out of your ship, but without the right experience, or guidance, its proboly too frustrating to learn the hard way for most people. thus the endless number of threads like this.
the link in my sig is my attempt to guid anyone who wants to really have fun in this game.
This here is the very attitude that has caused pvp to be what it is. Many of the pvp community act like they do not want people from the pve community to join in on pvp and shower the pve community with mockery.
The other problem with pvp and why it's so unpopular has to do with the fact many of the pvp community love to form teams and take them into the q with the express purpose of pug stomping and to drive people out of the q. The pvp community seems to fail to understand that by driving people away from pvp you lead Cryptic to do nothing for pvp.
They need to add different ques first and foremost to help pvp. There needs to be a team one and a solo one. That would do more to bring pve players into giving pvp a chance then anything.
PvP in STO can be really fun and really terrible at time. If your a pver wanting to get into pvp give it a try, it really can be fun. If your going into the q solo and you see a team, save yourself the grief and just leave. You can always re q and wait for a match against a none team, unless of course they managed to drive everyone out. In that case just take a break from pvp till more people start to join the q.
I got burned out from another game, and will never do it again. Mainly due to you have the ones who won't work as a team. Next is graveyard/spawning camping. Oh that is so fun sitting there as a ghost waiting it out. Then you have the attitude of the others, which is why my headset is off. I don't care to hear all that rubbish. Lastly unless you have all the great gear, your nothing but canon fodder until you do. Most PVP areas don't scale with your gear, only levels. So that is another way to have fun, die your way into better gear.
Been there done it. I hate PVP grounds.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
This here is the very attitude that has caused pvp to be what it is. Many of the pvp community act like they do not want people from the pve community to join in on pvp and shower the pve community with mockery.
The other problem with pvp and why it's so unpopular has to do with the fact many of the pvp community love to form teams and take them into the q with the express purpose of pug stomping and to drive people out of the q.
I don't PvP because if I wanted verbal abuse and being talked down to I would just get back with my ex-fiance, at least then I would have the benefit of someone helping to pay the bills. :rolleyes:
-- the community I have encountered is acerbic, rude, mean, and generally unwelcoming. Insults all the time. People telling me to go back to PvE because I'm worthless in PvP , etc etc.
Now, not every player I have encountered has such an attitude. Some have been helpful and friendly, but that is the minority. I will say I truly appreciate when one of the PvP crowd takes a moment to say "Hey, thanks for PvPing. I noticed X about what happened in the match with your ship. Want to chat? I have some advice." That has happened twice.
Quote for Truth!
That being said, I wish there were Space Adventure zones that reflected the Klingon/Federation war more then the series of episodes we have. An actual Battlefront for Ground and Space, where PVE players could enjoy the thrill of Klingon smashing, or Federation Vaporizing.
That being said, I wish there were Space Adventure zones that reflected the Klingon/Federation war more then the series of episodes we have. An actual Battlefront for Ground and Space, where PVE players could enjoy the thrill of Klingon smashing, or Federation Vaporizing.
A pvp zone populated with NPC safe spots for a faction would be cool. If you got in trouble you could fall back to a group of npc's for help.
About a week or so ago, a player named Cian challenged me to a one-on-one duel. I was using my top Fed toon, a career science officer, and my ship is the Oddy sci cruiser.
I beat Cian both times by blowing him up (I assume he's a dude), and then I noticed that the objective for this encounter was at "2 of 15!"
I think that's why a lot of people, including myself, don't PVP nowadays. Who wants to go thru 15 encounters, where somebody has to be blown to bits 15 times, in order to "win the match?" I was expecting it to say 2 of 5 or some such, but definitely not 15. These matches are way too long for my tastes. (By the way, apparently Cian quit the match because he never showed up for round 3, so I left the match and went back to playing).
I don't know if this has already been covered in the previous posts, but they need to seriously shorten these 1-on-1 duels, because I won't bother with them until they do.
I used to PvP when the Zen Store was the C Store a few times during the week, mostly to get the accolades, but even then it went from pretty fun to Klingons hiding in cloak and camping over spawn to Feds camping over spawn.
I have played in pvp since then and it pretty much has been the same. Now because of long ques, I forget that I even signed up. Last time, I pvped, it sucked, the experience, due to the rude people and the same tactics, plus some of the rude pms afterwards from my team and other team.
I do it for the fun and I rather go grind STFs then hit that que button again.
Also, the burden is on you: you're the minority here, often seeking more attention from the developers and apparently wanting us lowly unskilled PVE peasants to queue for PVP. That is, if nothing comes of these discussions, you lose, more or less.
So, considering you're highly guilty of the very same accusations you're throwing out of "negativity" considering your attitude toward PVE and PVEers in general, ultimately a deadlock results if it continues. A deadlock that leads to less interest in PVP and it staying that way.
how is the question projecting? you all think im projecting, mistakenly, thus leading to those responses my non loaded question got. something being out of control OP doesn't effect pve in the slightest, other then letting you skate through it faster then intended, but it can make pvp unplayable. what gets attention usually depends on how close a problem brings any sort of content to unplayability. it turns out, finding bugs is a really good way to get dev attention on certain things, pve'ers should try it if they want all this attention pvp'ers get.
being a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants' is a choice a person can make. me, and many others in the small but actually quite friendly pvp community are more then willing to help shake that description off of anyone who wants to be better. you are the only one keeping yourself a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants', you are choosing that. wile at the same time hating on and calling anyone who moved beyond that an elitist, having some huge ego, or someone who needs to prove themselves better then anyone. there is a tiny number of people like that, and there is a more then tiny number of pve'ers like that, chest thumping over their 10k-30k dps benchmarks. but these people arent the rule anywhere.
most of us pvp because its the most stimulating content, not to prove anything. there is nothing stimulating about fighting npcs, you follow an incredibly simple procedure and you win, the only variable is time. in pvp you compete against an intelligence that reacts to you, its thrilling.
the dead lock continues the more the same garbage about pvp is uttered in threads like these. might as well call it come hate pvp here, come pick up new reasons to dislike it you hadn't thought of and then repeat them, also feel smug about it too.
That's hypocrisy. Calling everyone else a negative reactionary windbag after showing them exactly what a terminally-biased negative reactionary windbag looks like. Just get back under your bridge already.
Damn, this forum needs an ignore list in the worst way possible.
right, because my post was the very first, and not a response to the hyper negativity that fills the whole thread. this thread was pages and pages of negativity against some evil straw man pvp that doesn't exist, sorry i saw through the bitterness after your bad experiences with it. you can dislike pvp because you dislike the competitive aspect, but if you do nothing but complain about people not going easy on you, people playing to their ships strengths, making every excuse in the book about how these other players are doing these legitimate things within the system, its you that are insufficient. be it gear deficient, experience deficient, or some of the most basic build information deficient, its the refusal to do better or try to learn what your doing wrong, to lash out at everyone else playing so 'unfairly' to you.
if everyone tried to attain a very basic level of competence, it wouldn't mater if you were up against an organized team, you would know what to do. this was typical of kdf pvp'ers, more back in the day then now, it didn't mater if they faced a premade, individually they knew what to do, had good builds, and new how to work like a team. if most pve'ers really gave pvp an honest shot, and not just believe all the horror stories, it would do wonders for thier pve performance too. proboly shave hours off your weekly grind. you will proboly see why we 'talk down' pve too.
This here is the very attitude that has caused pvp to be what it is. Many of the pvp community act like they do not want people from the pve community to join in on pvp and shower the pve community with mockery.
The other problem with pvp and why it's so unpopular has to do with the fact many of the pvp community love to form teams and take them into the q with the express purpose of pug stomping and to drive people out of the q. The pvp community seems to fail to understand that by driving people away from pvp you lead Cryptic to do nothing for pvp.
nope, the more the merrier. the more pvpers there are that arent cheese freaks and not helpless, the more fun pvp is for everyone. everything you dont like about pvp would be diluted, the VERY few that actually throw insults, pre form teams that seem like their only intent is to drive people away from the ques, impossibly strong users, all that. thats all we can do about the bad apples, make them even more of a minority with higher numbers of decent folks. unless cryptic actually develops and organizes pvp in some way
i got the thread, my forum name is my @handle, if im in game go ahead and pm me, talk trash if you wish, its a badge oh honor to get abusive tells, i like sharing them in certain pvp chat channels lol. but in an hour or so of communication i could make anyone pvp ready. well, provided they had decent rep and gear, there is a fairly high entry level these days im afraid, but if your regular players you probily got what you need. set shields or elite shields, blue mkXI or beter weapons and consoles, tier 2 and hopefully 4 rep passives, fleet, 3 pack or lobi ships, tech doffs, damage control doffs, brace for impact doffs, some of the old stand by doffs like that.
most of what you need to get above 'peasant' tier is on the form of 'tribal knowledge'. theres not much documentation, official or otherwise, telling you what your missing. its hard learned, or passed on by those that know. im not trying to insult anyone when i say you have been dumbed down by pve, the content is at fault more then you are. it didn't teach you what you needed to know to keep your ship alive, was never hard enough for you to ever need any optimization to get through it, and gave you no frame of reference as you played it to tell you if you were doing well one way or the other. you wont learn anything jumping into pvp, failing epically, and not having a clue why. this is when you should get mad at pve for failing you, not pvp and pvp'ers for playing to their ship's potential. chose to learn, instead of QQ. or at least stop propagating how monstrously terrible pvp is.
1. Don't like trash talk.. and have seen to much trash talk in PvP... see it in STF farmeres too..
2. Don't like poor sportsman ship. Camping a pawn point is just rude. I've camped spawn points as KDF but I have my own personal rules of honor.. I don't cloak... and the respawned player gets the first shot.
3. PvP in the game advances nothing in the greater game.. it's just PvP. Awards are all related to getting better gear. What the game really needs is a PvEvP war zone. With objective that can be taken on a large scale.. not 6 objectives.. more like 60, or 600, or 6000
4. Operational, and stratigic objectives that you go out and FIGHT for.
On to put it more simply.. a STO war game.. not a glorified bunch of arena's..
Something interesting. If Crypic had included something like that from the start..it's highly likely they wouldn't have heard near the amount of griping from the KDF players. WHo by the way did a great deal of thier levelling up via a mix of PvP and PvE when the game launched...
We had like 4 deep space encounter zone we could PvE with (KDF did not have exploration zones yet) , and then the rest was PvP. If you wanted to level fast as KDF you PvP'd and that was that. Ventrillo and command and control made us mighty.. along with way to much practice.. Birds of Prey got the TRIBBLE nerfed out of em in consequence (ya know they could just un-nerf em... take em back to thier original stats.. asuuming they haven't yet.
Mostly you just don't see a lot of pvP because its not an attractive play alternative,,,
To many attitudes (or at least a perception of opjectionable behavior)
To much arena play...not persistant war...(the way the Dyson Sphere is kind of set up would make a great place for a initial federation KDF war zone)
Macro game effect.... NPC costs are effected by war standing buying/selling junk drops.
should be some positive effects for being on the loosing side too..a global buff that efects all players in the faction.. But requires going to the war zone and a getting kill of some sort, on either a player or an NPC.
Theres all types of things that can be done.. but there is a need to look at it also being a war simulation. That will make PvP much more interesting..
It just doesn't interest me.
I don't hate PvP, but I wish the "OP nerf!!!!" dementia didn't affect the rest of the game.
Let these super geeks have their sandbox...but keep their sand out of ours.
Ours is pee-free and I like it that way.
NO to ARC RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
I've been playing this game for almost two years now, and I never PvP. The reasons why have all been stated above:
1. Trash talking players. I work in a Prison, so I deal with convicted felons running their mouth all day. I don't have to listen to it here as well, especially from some 14 year old kid who has never seen a real ******.
2. Why bother when you can't win? Like others, when I first started out in this game I went into a PvP arena and was immediately set upon by five Klingons, (I play almost exclusively Fed). This happened about four times in a row till I finally left. Never went back, either.
3. What you all call "Power Creep" and I call "Pay to win". I don't have the time or the money to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on Lobi or Keys to buy three or four ships to get the "special" consoles that you have to have to win.
4. Lastly, the elitist attitude of those who exclusively PvP. That "drunk" guy posting above with the moronic avatar is a prime example. Don't insult me and tell me that I'm "unskilled" simply because I refuse to PvP. You don't like PvE? Fine. Just don't think that you're better than me because I don't PvP.
That being said, I do know many people, mainly in my own Fleet, who enjoy PvP. I have learned from them and have taken this knowledge to PvE where I have improved my game play. I know not all of them are bad, but if you go in alone, the majority of those in the Q's are loud-mouthed jerks. And I just don't want to listen to them.
To give some perspective on this, STO is the only MMO or online-type of game I've ever played. I came here because this is Star Trek. I came here to be Captain Kirk, not to get into a peeing match to determine who has the biggest ****.
how is the question projecting? you all think im projecting, mistakenly, thus leading to those responses my non loaded question got. something being out of control OP doesn't effect pve in the slightest, other then letting you skate through it faster then intended, but it can make pvp unplayable. what gets attention usually depends on how close a problem brings any sort of content to unplayability. it turns out, finding bugs is a really good way to get dev attention on certain things, pve'ers should try it if they want all this attention pvp'ers get.
being a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants' is a choice a person can make. me, and many others in the small but actually quite friendly pvp community are more then willing to help shake that description off of anyone who wants to be better. you are the only one keeping yourself a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants', you are choosing that. wile at the same time hating on and calling anyone who moved beyond that an elitist, having some huge ego, or someone who needs to prove themselves better then anyone. there is a tiny number of people like that, and there is a more then tiny number of pve'ers like that, chest thumping over their 10k-30k dps benchmarks. but these people arent the rule anywhere.
most of us pvp because its the most stimulating content, not to prove anything. there is nothing stimulating about fighting npcs, you follow an incredibly simple procedure and you win, the only variable is time. in pvp you compete against an intelligence that reacts to you, its thrilling.
the dead lock continues the more the same garbage about pvp is uttered in threads like these. might as well call it come hate pvp here, come pick up new reasons to dislike it you hadn't thought of and then repeat them, also feel smug about it too.
right, because my post was the very first, and not a response to the hyper negativity that fills the whole thread. this thread was pages and pages of negativity against some evil straw man pvp that doesn't exist, sorry i saw through the bitterness after your bad experiences with it. you can dislike pvp because you dislike the competitive aspect, but if you do nothing but complain about people not going easy on you, people playing to their ships strengths, making every excuse in the book about how these other players are doing these legitimate things within the system, its you that are insufficient. be it gear deficient, experience deficient, or some of the most basic build information deficient, its the refusal to do better or try to learn what your doing wrong, to lash out at everyone else playing so 'unfairly' to you.
if everyone tried to attain a very basic level of competence, it wouldn't mater if you were up against an organized team, you would know what to do. this was typical of kdf pvp'ers, more back in the day then now, it didn't mater if they faced a premade, individually they knew what to do, had good builds, and new how to work like a team. if most pve'ers really gave pvp an honest shot, and not just believe all the horror stories, it would do wonders for thier pve performance too. proboly shave hours off your weekly grind. you will proboly see why we 'talk down' pve too.
nope, the more the merrier. the more pvpers there are that arent cheese freaks and not helpless, the more fun pvp is for everyone. everything you dont like about pvp would be diluted, the VERY few that actually throw insults, pre form teams that seem like their only intent is to drive people away from the ques, impossibly strong users, all that. thats all we can do about the bad apples, make them even more of a minority with higher numbers of decent folks. unless cryptic actually develops and organizes pvp in some way
i got the thread, my forum name is my @handle, if im in game go ahead and pm me, talk trash if you wish, its a badge oh honor to get abusive tells, i like sharing them in certain pvp chat channels lol. but in an hour or so of communication i could make anyone pvp ready. well, provided they had decent rep and gear, there is a fairly high entry level these days im afraid, but if your regular players you probily got what you need. set shields or elite shields, blue mkXI or beter weapons and consoles, tier 2 and hopefully 4 rep passives, fleet, 3 pack or lobi ships, tech doffs, damage control doffs, brace for impact doffs, some of the old stand by doffs like that.
most of what you need to get above 'peasant' tier is on the form of 'tribal knowledge'. theres not much documentation, official or otherwise, telling you what your missing. its hard learned, or passed on by those that know. im not trying to insult anyone when i say you have been dumbed down by pve, the content is at fault more then you are. it didn't teach you what you needed to know to keep your ship alive, was never hard enough for you to ever need any optimization to get through it, and gave you no frame of reference as you played it to tell you if you were doing well one way or the other. you wont learn anything jumping into pvp, failing epically, and not having a clue why. this is when you should get mad at pve for failing you, not pvp and pvp'ers for playing to their ship's potential. chose to learn, instead of QQ. or at least stop propagating how monstrously terrible pvp is.
I am sorry but you know that there is many in the pvp community that do not want to see it either grow in numbers or really care about it's long term health. The pvp channels have a lot of back slapping on them about how great it is to stomp pugs and destroy the q. Many of the pvp community do seem to make it both a point to make pvp a terrible experience for new people and like to laugh at them when it upsets them.
PvP in STO deserves to go away until they fix the number one issue which having a q for teams and one for pugs. Till that happens I wouldn't support one minute of time being spent on any pvp project.
The PvP community seems to like to take plenty of swipes at pve, plenty at Cryptic and anyone else they seem to think has caused pvp to be unpopular. In the end they need to take a long hard look at themselves because more then anything else it's the way they have acted that has caused pvp to become such a unpopular thing in this game.
The worst part about this whole thing is that Star Trek Online has really fun pvp. Let me repeat that, Star Trek Online PvP can be very fun. The reason it's not always fun is due to the know pvpers that go out of there way to make it not fun for others and the fact they are cheered on by many in the pvp community has made that problem worse. The pvp community has chose to make pvp a terrible experience for new players and now suffers from a lack of players. It made it's bed and it must now lie down in it.
*A Note to the pvp community: When you accuse people of "Kirking" you come off as sounding silly as possible. In case you did not know Kirk is one of the most beloved captains for Star Trek. While you think your being both cute and clever, to many you come off as both not knowing about Star Trek but a jerk as well.
Here it goes .. flame, shame, and statements for the record. I don't pvp now because of what happened when i came back and continues to happen. I see mash groups and stomphole groups team up to mash stomp and kill grind. It is all about points and there is NOT A CHANCE IN HADES they can get the numbers. Look at it with logic...In a single match with 15 kills.. it says who kills who.. so how in the H*** are we getting majickal math of 45 kills? I don't care if it is a mod, bot, hack, crack or exploit... I just want to see the numbers make sense. 15 kills ... 15 wins. PERIOD. if there is an over all tally.. fine.. but that should be personal and not "king of the hill" style.
Star Trek wasn't about who could top who... Also, the pvp community is so subjective and reminds me of a church recruitment on sunday... power thump, book read, forum romp, and skill spec, everyone has the best build and whatnot. Also, it has to be sad that the person who trains you teaches you to put "Boot Camp Wimp, Weiny or whatnot" to even learn. I don't want to learn from someone that thinks they are better than me just because they have more practice. I don't enjoy being called stupid because I haven't learned enough to be like them. I do not appreciate a community that says " go look here it is all out in the open" for an answer to how to this or that.
Frankly, it is in need of a revamp on the community values. There has to be a way to make it more sport like and less b**fest Beatdown 101 of EVE. Many of us that don't "hardcore" pvp is because we are ground and pound out from EVE. I left the grind to come here to meet new more "sympathetic and like minded pvpers that are helpful" to see they were in the minority.
I have met 3. yep... ONE PER YEAR I WAS HERE. .... One in beta and launch.. I left .. 1 when I came back to ask why is there premade bootstomp overkill farming of lower leveled characters who have the TUTORIAL being sent to slaughter? I met one more this year when I was going to leave permanently. i have to say, many of the premade saga has turned the attention to some private ques and the privates are outnumbering public and making the que forever in a day long. If you can't get in, it is because of that. No exploitation in a mass of friends and allies fighting.... no putting down or baby name calling or any whining in an honest pvp between people of like mind. Now, if we could get a PRO VET and AMATEUR PVP going... that would make sense.
VET would be the ones with all the shiney and wahtnot.... Pro would be the softcore hardcore serious but don't care tried and true PVPers. Amateur would be where the "DPS DON"T CARES" could go... and the beginners could go to a "crash course intro" mapping... to learn a leveling. This would only mean for all of us that each level is a way to learn and earn. So, in essence.. in the end... the ones that surpass all the others could have a goal... stand alone against everyone else in a capture and hold... you hold they capture.. all vs you. Good idea.. LOVE it. now... put it to where builds are zip and everyone can do the same... like a starter ship with starter gear.... for the rights to win.. because being the best would mean you can use the worst and still show skill.
I think that if we could seperate each by group....5 man premade geared to the gills...to the beginners that just wanna wet the toe to learn and move on in story... all could find a place for it.. I think the community would shape around the motivations within.
As for a revamp, it needs it because private matches are killing the ability to do things. I have been on the KDF side and i used to break the planet every day when I came back when it went F2P... I can't get in after two weeks every day all day waiting for it to Que. That says alot. As far as the KDF being laughable... there should be the same number of ships that allow for pvp builds and modifications SPECIFICALLY for this. IE... fleet ships meant to do it, or zen ships meant to do it..
IT IS WAR! I think we would benefit from seeing more of the drama of it. I think it would make sense that each day.. the KDF vs Fed could fight it out on the fringe of both fronts. The edge would be the forefront of recruitment and concern.. now put the diplomacy into it where all in the team must get the planet to agree to aid.. for the power and control... yep ... I would play. This would utilize iteraction with diplomacy, each other, there would be specific goals to be done by profession and there would be accolades for choices. You get proc and buff bonus for all 5 success.... with minimum buff for no success. ThIS MAKES SENSE!.... see if you give suggestions.. instead of mass hate, it will halp them to help us. They can't read your minds.. and if you only spend all day bashing it, how are they to make it better if you don't take the time yourself to improve it by telling them how to help make it better?
here is a goal... posters after me I give you and prior posters a challenge... tell the readers 3 good things about PVP and where you can find proof in the community at large. Now, tell them what 3 things you would like to see improved... and the 3 things that every PVPer needs to know.. imagine explaining it to a person that doesn't understand videogames and this is the first one. Now, blend in a nice suggestion of what you would like to see different that would bring you back. THIS would be something that would HELP them help you and you get the revamp without spawncamp and you get it without fear as it would be YOUR suggestions motivating. How could it be steered wrong if you are navigating your own path? You are the ones that loved it once, you left because it lacked something.. fill in the gap to help others not feel your pain. I did by doing this post... can you?
I've been playing this game for almost two years now, and I never PvP. The reasons why have all been stated above:
1. Trash talking players. I work in a Prison, so I deal with convicted felons running their mouth all day. I don't have to listen to it here as well, especially from some 14 year old kid who has never seen a real ******.
2. Why bother when you can't win? Like others, when I first started out in this game I went into a PvP arena and was immediately set upon by five Klingons, (I play almost exclusively Fed). This happened about four times in a row till I finally left. Never went back, either.
3. What you all call "Power Creep" and I call "Pay to win". I don't have the time or the money to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on Lobi or Keys to buy three or four ships to get the "special" consoles that you have to have to win.
4. Lastly, the elitist attitude of those who exclusively PvP. That "drunk" guy posting above with the moronic avatar is a prime example. Don't insult me and tell me that I'm "unskilled" simply because I refuse to PvP. You don't like PvE? Fine. Just don't think that you're better than me because I don't PvP.
That being said, I do know many people, mainly in my own Fleet, who enjoy PvP. I have learned from them and have taken this knowledge to PvE where I have improved my game play. I know not all of them are bad, but if you go in alone, the majority of those in the Q's are loud-mouthed jerks. And I just don't want to listen to them.
To give some perspective on this, STO is the only MMO or online-type of game I've ever played. I came here because this is Star Trek. I came here to be Captain Kirk, not to get into a peeing match to determine who has the biggest ****.
The bold ones remind me of a bunch of MMOs, where you have dedicated PvP-Realms, an active PvP-community and where Open-PvP is encouraged. PvPers overdid it, with the effect that people have been transferring and rerolling on the winning teams side or moving to PvE-Realms, effectively destroying both Open- and instanced-PvP, as server populations were slanted 99% vs. 1% into one direction and you either couldn't find opponents or had hour-long waits on the PvP-queues.
The current thread is a prime example. Due to the behaviour of the self-appointed PvPers in this thread, they've probably moved quite a few, previously unbiased people, away from ever trying PvP, therefore killing it a small piece at a time.
The bold ones remind me of a bunch of MMOs, where you have dedicated PvP-Realms, an active PvP-community and where Open-PvP is encouraged. PvPers overdid it, with the effect that people have been transferring and rerolling on the winning teams side or moving to PvE-Realms, effectively destroying both Open- and instanced-PvP, as server populations were slanted 99% vs. 1% into one direction and you either couldn't find opponents or had hour-long waits on the PvP-queues.
The current thread is a prime example. Due to the behaviour of the self-appointed PvPers in this thread, they've probably moved quite a few, previously unbiased people, away from ever trying PvP, therefore killing it a small piece at a time.
And thats why PvE people stay away from PvP, the PvP people.
For someone who has tried PvP once or twice, its no fun jumping in and getting roflstomped. While i am all for a good challenge, PvP in this game isnt a challenge its suicide in a ship if you are unsure of what you are doing.
Between the min/maxers and macro monsters, well that seals it.
PvP players kill PvP in games. At this point there is no way to balance it in a way that will not infuriate the PvP community.
Short of a total revamp that makes PvP SPECIFIC consoles, weapons and sets, PvP will shrink more and more into Elitists that ruin the experience for others until only they are left and are having no fun trying to beat each other....
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I've been playing this game for almost two years now, and I never PvP. The reasons why have all been stated above:
never pvp, yet you know its just a den of scum bags, as mouthy as convicts? STO pvp is not call of duty. the rudest thing ive seen someone do in months is say good game ironically.
I am sorry but you know that there is many in the pvp community that do not want to see it either grow in numbers or really care about it's long term health. The pvp channels have a lot of back slapping on them about how great it is to stomp pugs and destroy the q. Many of the pvp community do seem to make it both a point to make pvp a terrible experience for new people and like to laugh at them when it upsets them.
totally absurd, no one who pvps wants to destroy it intentionally. pvp'ers hate 1 sided fights, they arent having any more fun then you are, they are here for a challenge, not shooting fish in a barrel. no one pats them selves on the back over it. whats are sci captains and sci ships to do anyway? its their job to shut someone down. some people may have a bit of a cheese addiction, but part of the problem is the rest of you putting every skill point into crit, and energy levels and not putting anything in to CC defense on your skill tree. subsystem repair, dampeners, power insulators. did you guys know that if you put 3 points into dampners, you would be immune to gravity well? that ones free.
im sure when you guys dip your toes in pvp you luck out and come across the worst of it, i deal with it everyday, but its not as unbeatable as you think, or even that bothersome once you know how tro deal. but, when we decide there is an imbalance in something, something thats 'destroying pvp', all we get from the pve community is there they go again, those pvpers, trying to destroy my pve with their pvp changes. they never actually end up changing something unless we prove theres a bug, or something becomes exploitative in PVE.
The worst part about this whole thing is that Star Trek Online has really fun pvp. Let me repeat that, Star Trek Online PvP can be very fun. The reason it's not always fun is due to the know pvpers that go out of there way to make it not fun for others and the fact they are cheered on by many in the pvp community has made that problem worse. The pvp community has chose to make pvp a terrible experience for new players and now suffers from a lack of players. It made it's bed and it must now lie down in it.
dont convince yourself its unplayable bad. most of the matches im in these days are great, many with ~14/15 scores. people arent actually going out of their way to ruin the experience for others, doesn't this sound insane at face value? its not even that common to run into those that inadvertently do. well depending on what your definition is anyway. to some, im sure every single sci captain, subnukeing you is destroying pvp every time he uses that. or every bug ship that uses cannon rapid fire on you. theres ways to counter this yourself, but working as a team you can render any of that nearly harmless.
*A Note to the pvp community: When you accuse people of "Kirking" you come off as sounding silly as possible. In case you did not know Kirk is one of the most beloved captains for Star Trek. While you think your being both cute and clever, to many you come off as both not knowing about Star Trek but a jerk as well.
you come off as not knowing what that means. it tends refer to any tac captain puging in a cruiser
this obsession with trash talking you all have. i see it maybe once every 20 matches. report those you see doing it! or, dont call some one a hacker when you get killed, and there wont be anyone trash talking.
never pvp, yet you know its just a den of scum bags, as mouthy as convicts? STO pvp is not call of duty. the rudest thing ive seen someone do in months is say good game ironically.
:rolleyes: why do i get the feeling that the trash talking doesn't start till after you guys start bombing zone chat first
totally absurd, no one who pvps wants to destroy it intentionally. pvp'ers hate 1 sided fights, they arent having any more fun then you are, they are here for a challenge, not shooting fish in a barrel. no one pats them selves on the back over it. whats are sci captains and sci ships to do anyway? its their job to shut someone down. some people may have a bit of a cheese addiction, but part of the problem is the rest of you putting every skill point into crit, and energy levels and not putting anything in to CC defense on your skill tree. subsystem repair, dampeners, power insulators. did you guys know that if you put 3 points into dampners, you would be immune to gravity well? that ones free.
im sure when you guys dip your toes in pvp you luck out and come across the worst of it, i deal with it everyday, but its not as unbeatable as you think, or even that bothersome once you know how tro deal. but, when we decide there is an imbalance in something, something thats 'destroying pvp', all we get from the pve community is there they go again, those pvpers, trying to destroy my pve with their pvp changes. they never actually end up changing something unless we prove theres a bug, or something becomes exploitative in PVE.
dont convince yourself its unplayable bad. most of the matches im in these days are great, many with ~14/15 scores. people arent actually going out of their way to ruin the experience for others, doesn't this sound insane at face value? its not even that common to run into those that inadvertently do. well depending on what your definition is anyway. to some, im sure every single sci captain, subnukeing you is destroying pvp every time he uses that. or every bug ship that uses cannon rapid fire on you. theres ways to counter this yourself, but working as a team you can render any of that nearly harmless.
you come off as not knowing what that means. it tends refer to any tac captain puging in a cruiser
this obsession with trash talking you all have. i see it maybe once every 20 matches. report those you see doing it! or, dont call some one a hacker when you get killed, and there wont be anyone trash talking.
You're hurting your position the more you post, and you need to know that.
Your approach is so full of cognitive bias and selective perception, of false equivalencies and other rhetorical tricks applied poorly that you may not have noticed that as this thread's gone on, you've only pushed more and more PVEers further away from ever trying PVP here.
Oh, right, one of your "arguments" was how tiny the forum population was. And you think the in-game behavior of your PVP buddies is any less repulsive? Either some supernatural force keeps people away from PVP and repulses them increasingly as time goes on from even trying it, or all your claims are pretty hollow.
Heck, look at what you've been saying here. Just about everyone here, myself included, has had bad PVP experiences here. Yet according to your our experiences don't matter. Only yours does. So you're already dismissing entirely out of hand everything being said here that isn't about you.
It's sort of hard to talk to someone who is functionally a brick wall of self-affirmation. You're only sinking your ship the longer you linger here.
never pvp, yet you know its just a den of scum bags, as mouthy as convicts? STO pvp is not call of duty. the rudest thing ive seen someone do in months is say good game ironically.
:rolleyes: why do i get the feeling that the trash talking doesn't start till after you guys start bombing zone chat first
totally absurd, no one who pvps wants to destroy it intentionally. pvp'ers hate 1 sided fights, they arent having any more fun then you are, they are here for a challenge, not shooting fish in a barrel. no one pats them selves on the back over it. whats are sci captains and sci ships to do anyway? its their job to shut someone down. some people may have a bit of a cheese addiction, but part of the problem is the rest of you putting every skill point into crit, and energy levels and not putting anything in to CC defense on your skill tree. subsystem repair, dampeners, power insulators. did you guys know that if you put 3 points into dampners, you would be immune to gravity well? that ones free.
im sure when you guys dip your toes in pvp you luck out and come across the worst of it, i deal with it everyday, but its not as unbeatable as you think, or even that bothersome once you know how tro deal. but, when we decide there is an imbalance in something, something thats 'destroying pvp', all we get from the pve community is there they go again, those pvpers, trying to destroy my pve with their pvp changes. they never actually end up changing something unless we prove theres a bug, or something becomes exploitative in PVE.
dont convince yourself its unplayable bad. most of the matches im in these days are great, many with ~14/15 scores. people arent actually going out of their way to ruin the experience for others, doesn't this sound insane at face value? its not even that common to run into those that inadvertently do. well depending on what your definition is anyway. to some, im sure every single sci captain, subnukeing you is destroying pvp every time he uses that. or every bug ship that uses cannon rapid fire on you. theres ways to counter this yourself, but working as a team you can render any of that nearly harmless.
you come off as not knowing what that means. it tends refer to any tac captain puging in a cruiser
this obsession with trash talking you all have. i see it maybe once every 20 matches. report those you see doing it! or, dont call some one a hacker when you get killed, and there wont be anyone trash talking.
Don't reply back to any of this would be my advice, from what I've seen this has gone down flameland and I wouldn't be surprised if a Mod came in and closed it.
As for those who had bad experiences in PvP it's true you will get stomped but no one wins all the time there have been times I've been killed 8+ times in a match easy but did I rage quit trash talk and leave? No I stuck it out and I put all i had into defence and tried to be as unkillable as I could. Difference was instead of letting that experience get to me I adapted and learnt now I don't die as often.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No Drama, No Fuss, Just good old fashioned pew pew!
Don't reply back to any of this would be my advice, from what I've seen this has gone down flameland and I wouldn't be surprised if a Mod came in and closed it.
Kind of ironic when you think about it.
Almost no-one likes in-game PvP, but everyone loves a bit of forum PvP.
PVP is fine until you hit level 50. The only real issue is just how much additional gear and time it takes to be PVP competitive. When 2 level 45 players PVP chances are they are in similar ships with roughly equal gear. Skill and build quality determines the winner.
When 2 level 50s match up, one can have green mk X-XII and exchange equipment while the other is in any one of the preset PVP builds, and they have no chance. Even if their build counters the PVP build, their gear simply will not be good enough.
PVE players do not PVP because a lot of us have tried it, and realized that we needed to spend 6 months gearing up to have a chance, AND that exactly what we needed to get was determined not by choice but by equations already solved. PVE at least lets us try the ship we want to fly using the playstyle that best suits us.
Solution: Split PVP into 3 queues.
1. No universal consoles, rep gear or fleet gear AT ALL. This includes fleet ships.
2. Add Fleet Gear and Fleet ships
3. Anything goes.
PVE players would play 1, many fleet members would go to 2 and the hardcore players would all pick 3. I suspect the PVP population would increase enough to fill the queues. A lot of my fleet PVPs against each other, just not in the borked queues.
the content is at fault more then you are. it didn't teach you what you needed to know to keep your ship alive, was never hard enough for you to ever need any optimization to get through it, and gave you no frame of reference as you played it to tell you if you were doing well one way or the other.
you wont learn anything jumping into pvp, failing epically, and not having a clue why. this is when you should get mad at pve for failing you, not pvp and pvp'ers for playing to their ship's potential. chose to learn, instead of QQ. or at least stop propagating how monstrously terrible pvp is.
nothing to add, it's the very truth (yepp... the one that people think doesn't exist) and i can't imagine any pvp'er in here, who not had to go through.
cyptic won't ever do anything about this. that's why bootcamp is player initiated and driven. and though cryptic gives rewards for participation (at least thx 4 that!) they keep on making it harder and harder to keep it running due to letting pvp in whole alone.
that doesn't encourage to invest anything into it (like time for teaching things cryptic should teach. actually i got little and probably lots to learn myself).
nothing to add, it's the very truth (yepp... the one that people think doesn't exist) and i can't imagine any pvp'er in here, who not had to go through.
cyptic won't ever do anything about this. that's why bootcamp is player initiated and driven. and though cryptic gives rewards for participation (at least thx 4 that!) they keep on making it harder and harder to keep it running due to letting pvp in whole alone.
that doesn't encourage to invest anything into it (like time for teaching things cryptic should teach. actually i got little and probably lots to learn myself).
Ah, the old "opinion = truth" magic trick.
And these guys wonder why the rest of us care less and less for them while they tell us more and more how irreplacable and important they are if only we paid attention and catered to them.
And these guys wonder why the rest of us care less and less for them while they tell us more and more how irreplacable and important they are if only we paid attention and catered to them.
Your attitude seems to be the exact same one that you're complaining about exists in PVP. Goes to show that it's people, and there are going to be bad eggs everywhere.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Harden up Princess Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website: www.ausmonauts.com
Your attitude seems to be the exact same one that you're complaining about exists in PVP. Goes to show that it's people, and there are going to be bad eggs everywhere.
So here we are back to square one. "NYEEEEH you said something mean that vaguely resembles what PVPers screech all the time minus the swear words and references to orientation and the relationship status of their mothers, so now all PVP antisocial behavior is totally vindicated!!!!1".
Please.
Keep in mind the burden is on the PVPers, here and in game, to tell us why the rest of us should care a speck about their demands. So whining that it's all even and PVEers are equally obnoxious in game because of some anecdote is futile.
You're here to convince us. Us. Because if nothing happens, that means the devs didnt waste time on PVP and that's fine by most of us.
...well if this is only a opinion based on experience, i'm quite sure u can point me to that particular mission/doffing/whatever during levelling ur first char where u learned anything about game-mechanics.
u did found some? (really?) be glad and assured, there are not many with u... f.e. in the first place i flew around for several weeks without autofire switched on (until i found a hint at the forum) ....
And these guys wonder why the rest of us care less and less for them while they tell us more and more how irreplacable and important they are if only we paid attention and catered to them.
...so.... plz just tell me where in my post i did say something like "yay, how good/important am i/we, inferior are <fill in group u think i wanted to bash>" (may sto-player/-devs/humans in whole fits in here?! )....
i just supported a point which is obviously to everyone who's willing to take a look behind the curtain. not only pvp'ers, but hc-pve'ers as well.
....just find one and ask about ingame learning-progression and where u have to go for.
...the one who says: "just play the game, u'll learn everything that way" lies.
that simple. it's the fleets, the forums, bootcamp, .....
indeed u just carry the impression of prejudices against "us"...
to conclude it: u seem to have a problem with the attitude of pvp'ers and tried to show that by taking my post as example.
sorry sir, u just bit ur own leg...
Comments
This here is the very attitude that has caused pvp to be what it is. Many of the pvp community act like they do not want people from the pve community to join in on pvp and shower the pve community with mockery.
The other problem with pvp and why it's so unpopular has to do with the fact many of the pvp community love to form teams and take them into the q with the express purpose of pug stomping and to drive people out of the q. The pvp community seems to fail to understand that by driving people away from pvp you lead Cryptic to do nothing for pvp.
They need to add different ques first and foremost to help pvp. There needs to be a team one and a solo one. That would do more to bring pve players into giving pvp a chance then anything.
PvP in STO can be really fun and really terrible at time. If your a pver wanting to get into pvp give it a try, it really can be fun. If your going into the q solo and you see a team, save yourself the grief and just leave. You can always re q and wait for a match against a none team, unless of course they managed to drive everyone out. In that case just take a break from pvp till more people start to join the q.
Been there done it. I hate PVP grounds.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
You are very correct.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Quote for Truth!
That being said, I wish there were Space Adventure zones that reflected the Klingon/Federation war more then the series of episodes we have. An actual Battlefront for Ground and Space, where PVE players could enjoy the thrill of Klingon smashing, or Federation Vaporizing.
A pvp zone populated with NPC safe spots for a faction would be cool. If you got in trouble you could fall back to a group of npc's for help.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
About a week or so ago, a player named Cian challenged me to a one-on-one duel. I was using my top Fed toon, a career science officer, and my ship is the Oddy sci cruiser.
I beat Cian both times by blowing him up (I assume he's a dude), and then I noticed that the objective for this encounter was at "2 of 15!"
I think that's why a lot of people, including myself, don't PVP nowadays. Who wants to go thru 15 encounters, where somebody has to be blown to bits 15 times, in order to "win the match?" I was expecting it to say 2 of 5 or some such, but definitely not 15. These matches are way too long for my tastes. (By the way, apparently Cian quit the match because he never showed up for round 3, so I left the match and went back to playing).
I don't know if this has already been covered in the previous posts, but they need to seriously shorten these 1-on-1 duels, because I won't bother with them until they do.
Thanks. Happy Holidays Everyone!!:)
I have played in pvp since then and it pretty much has been the same. Now because of long ques, I forget that I even signed up. Last time, I pvped, it sucked, the experience, due to the rude people and the same tactics, plus some of the rude pms afterwards from my team and other team.
I do it for the fun and I rather go grind STFs then hit that que button again.
I won't be wasting my time with that again.
how is the question projecting? you all think im projecting, mistakenly, thus leading to those responses my non loaded question got. something being out of control OP doesn't effect pve in the slightest, other then letting you skate through it faster then intended, but it can make pvp unplayable. what gets attention usually depends on how close a problem brings any sort of content to unplayability. it turns out, finding bugs is a really good way to get dev attention on certain things, pve'ers should try it if they want all this attention pvp'ers get.
being a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants' is a choice a person can make. me, and many others in the small but actually quite friendly pvp community are more then willing to help shake that description off of anyone who wants to be better. you are the only one keeping yourself a 'lowly unskilled PVE peasants', you are choosing that. wile at the same time hating on and calling anyone who moved beyond that an elitist, having some huge ego, or someone who needs to prove themselves better then anyone. there is a tiny number of people like that, and there is a more then tiny number of pve'ers like that, chest thumping over their 10k-30k dps benchmarks. but these people arent the rule anywhere.
most of us pvp because its the most stimulating content, not to prove anything. there is nothing stimulating about fighting npcs, you follow an incredibly simple procedure and you win, the only variable is time. in pvp you compete against an intelligence that reacts to you, its thrilling.
the dead lock continues the more the same garbage about pvp is uttered in threads like these. might as well call it come hate pvp here, come pick up new reasons to dislike it you hadn't thought of and then repeat them, also feel smug about it too.
right, because my post was the very first, and not a response to the hyper negativity that fills the whole thread. this thread was pages and pages of negativity against some evil straw man pvp that doesn't exist, sorry i saw through the bitterness after your bad experiences with it. you can dislike pvp because you dislike the competitive aspect, but if you do nothing but complain about people not going easy on you, people playing to their ships strengths, making every excuse in the book about how these other players are doing these legitimate things within the system, its you that are insufficient. be it gear deficient, experience deficient, or some of the most basic build information deficient, its the refusal to do better or try to learn what your doing wrong, to lash out at everyone else playing so 'unfairly' to you.
if everyone tried to attain a very basic level of competence, it wouldn't mater if you were up against an organized team, you would know what to do. this was typical of kdf pvp'ers, more back in the day then now, it didn't mater if they faced a premade, individually they knew what to do, had good builds, and new how to work like a team. if most pve'ers really gave pvp an honest shot, and not just believe all the horror stories, it would do wonders for thier pve performance too. proboly shave hours off your weekly grind. you will proboly see why we 'talk down' pve too.
nope, the more the merrier. the more pvpers there are that arent cheese freaks and not helpless, the more fun pvp is for everyone. everything you dont like about pvp would be diluted, the VERY few that actually throw insults, pre form teams that seem like their only intent is to drive people away from the ques, impossibly strong users, all that. thats all we can do about the bad apples, make them even more of a minority with higher numbers of decent folks. unless cryptic actually develops and organizes pvp in some way
i got the thread, my forum name is my @handle, if im in game go ahead and pm me, talk trash if you wish, its a badge oh honor to get abusive tells, i like sharing them in certain pvp chat channels lol. but in an hour or so of communication i could make anyone pvp ready. well, provided they had decent rep and gear, there is a fairly high entry level these days im afraid, but if your regular players you probily got what you need. set shields or elite shields, blue mkXI or beter weapons and consoles, tier 2 and hopefully 4 rep passives, fleet, 3 pack or lobi ships, tech doffs, damage control doffs, brace for impact doffs, some of the old stand by doffs like that.
most of what you need to get above 'peasant' tier is on the form of 'tribal knowledge'. theres not much documentation, official or otherwise, telling you what your missing. its hard learned, or passed on by those that know. im not trying to insult anyone when i say you have been dumbed down by pve, the content is at fault more then you are. it didn't teach you what you needed to know to keep your ship alive, was never hard enough for you to ever need any optimization to get through it, and gave you no frame of reference as you played it to tell you if you were doing well one way or the other. you wont learn anything jumping into pvp, failing epically, and not having a clue why. this is when you should get mad at pve for failing you, not pvp and pvp'ers for playing to their ship's potential. chose to learn, instead of QQ. or at least stop propagating how monstrously terrible pvp is.
1. Don't like trash talk.. and have seen to much trash talk in PvP... see it in STF farmeres too..
2. Don't like poor sportsman ship. Camping a pawn point is just rude. I've camped spawn points as KDF but I have my own personal rules of honor.. I don't cloak... and the respawned player gets the first shot.
3. PvP in the game advances nothing in the greater game.. it's just PvP. Awards are all related to getting better gear. What the game really needs is a PvEvP war zone. With objective that can be taken on a large scale.. not 6 objectives.. more like 60, or 600, or 6000
4. Operational, and stratigic objectives that you go out and FIGHT for.
On to put it more simply.. a STO war game.. not a glorified bunch of arena's..
Something interesting. If Crypic had included something like that from the start..it's highly likely they wouldn't have heard near the amount of griping from the KDF players. WHo by the way did a great deal of thier levelling up via a mix of PvP and PvE when the game launched...
We had like 4 deep space encounter zone we could PvE with (KDF did not have exploration zones yet) , and then the rest was PvP. If you wanted to level fast as KDF you PvP'd and that was that. Ventrillo and command and control made us mighty.. along with way to much practice.. Birds of Prey got the TRIBBLE nerfed out of em in consequence (ya know they could just un-nerf em... take em back to thier original stats.. asuuming they haven't yet.
Mostly you just don't see a lot of pvP because its not an attractive play alternative,,,
To many attitudes (or at least a perception of opjectionable behavior)
To much arena play...not persistant war...(the way the Dyson Sphere is kind of set up would make a great place for a initial federation KDF war zone)
Macro game effect.... NPC costs are effected by war standing buying/selling junk drops.
should be some positive effects for being on the loosing side too..a global buff that efects all players in the faction.. But requires going to the war zone and a getting kill of some sort, on either a player or an NPC.
Theres all types of things that can be done.. but there is a need to look at it also being a war simulation. That will make PvP much more interesting..
*refuse to sink to the level of some of the PvP crowd who are now in here calling us names*
It just doesn't interest me.
I don't hate PvP, but I wish the "OP nerf!!!!" dementia didn't affect the rest of the game.
Let these super geeks have their sandbox...but keep their sand out of ours.
Ours is pee-free and I like it that way.
RIP KDF and PvP 2014-07-17 Season 9.5 - Death by Dev
1. Trash talking players. I work in a Prison, so I deal with convicted felons running their mouth all day. I don't have to listen to it here as well, especially from some 14 year old kid who has never seen a real ******.
2. Why bother when you can't win? Like others, when I first started out in this game I went into a PvP arena and was immediately set upon by five Klingons, (I play almost exclusively Fed). This happened about four times in a row till I finally left. Never went back, either.
3. What you all call "Power Creep" and I call "Pay to win". I don't have the time or the money to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on Lobi or Keys to buy three or four ships to get the "special" consoles that you have to have to win.
4. Lastly, the elitist attitude of those who exclusively PvP. That "drunk" guy posting above with the moronic avatar is a prime example. Don't insult me and tell me that I'm "unskilled" simply because I refuse to PvP. You don't like PvE? Fine. Just don't think that you're better than me because I don't PvP.
That being said, I do know many people, mainly in my own Fleet, who enjoy PvP. I have learned from them and have taken this knowledge to PvE where I have improved my game play. I know not all of them are bad, but if you go in alone, the majority of those in the Q's are loud-mouthed jerks. And I just don't want to listen to them.
To give some perspective on this, STO is the only MMO or online-type of game I've ever played. I came here because this is Star Trek. I came here to be Captain Kirk, not to get into a peeing match to determine who has the biggest ****.
I am sorry but you know that there is many in the pvp community that do not want to see it either grow in numbers or really care about it's long term health. The pvp channels have a lot of back slapping on them about how great it is to stomp pugs and destroy the q. Many of the pvp community do seem to make it both a point to make pvp a terrible experience for new people and like to laugh at them when it upsets them.
PvP in STO deserves to go away until they fix the number one issue which having a q for teams and one for pugs. Till that happens I wouldn't support one minute of time being spent on any pvp project.
The PvP community seems to like to take plenty of swipes at pve, plenty at Cryptic and anyone else they seem to think has caused pvp to be unpopular. In the end they need to take a long hard look at themselves because more then anything else it's the way they have acted that has caused pvp to become such a unpopular thing in this game.
The worst part about this whole thing is that Star Trek Online has really fun pvp. Let me repeat that, Star Trek Online PvP can be very fun. The reason it's not always fun is due to the know pvpers that go out of there way to make it not fun for others and the fact they are cheered on by many in the pvp community has made that problem worse. The pvp community has chose to make pvp a terrible experience for new players and now suffers from a lack of players. It made it's bed and it must now lie down in it.
*A Note to the pvp community: When you accuse people of "Kirking" you come off as sounding silly as possible. In case you did not know Kirk is one of the most beloved captains for Star Trek. While you think your being both cute and clever, to many you come off as both not knowing about Star Trek but a jerk as well.
Here it goes .. flame, shame, and statements for the record. I don't pvp now because of what happened when i came back and continues to happen. I see mash groups and stomphole groups team up to mash stomp and kill grind. It is all about points and there is NOT A CHANCE IN HADES they can get the numbers. Look at it with logic...In a single match with 15 kills.. it says who kills who.. so how in the H*** are we getting majickal math of 45 kills? I don't care if it is a mod, bot, hack, crack or exploit... I just want to see the numbers make sense. 15 kills ... 15 wins. PERIOD. if there is an over all tally.. fine.. but that should be personal and not "king of the hill" style.
Star Trek wasn't about who could top who... Also, the pvp community is so subjective and reminds me of a church recruitment on sunday... power thump, book read, forum romp, and skill spec, everyone has the best build and whatnot. Also, it has to be sad that the person who trains you teaches you to put "Boot Camp Wimp, Weiny or whatnot" to even learn. I don't want to learn from someone that thinks they are better than me just because they have more practice. I don't enjoy being called stupid because I haven't learned enough to be like them. I do not appreciate a community that says " go look here it is all out in the open" for an answer to how to this or that.
Frankly, it is in need of a revamp on the community values. There has to be a way to make it more sport like and less b**fest Beatdown 101 of EVE. Many of us that don't "hardcore" pvp is because we are ground and pound out from EVE. I left the grind to come here to meet new more "sympathetic and like minded pvpers that are helpful" to see they were in the minority.
I have met 3. yep... ONE PER YEAR I WAS HERE. .... One in beta and launch.. I left .. 1 when I came back to ask why is there premade bootstomp overkill farming of lower leveled characters who have the TUTORIAL being sent to slaughter? I met one more this year when I was going to leave permanently. i have to say, many of the premade saga has turned the attention to some private ques and the privates are outnumbering public and making the que forever in a day long. If you can't get in, it is because of that. No exploitation in a mass of friends and allies fighting.... no putting down or baby name calling or any whining in an honest pvp between people of like mind. Now, if we could get a PRO VET and AMATEUR PVP going... that would make sense.
VET would be the ones with all the shiney and wahtnot.... Pro would be the softcore hardcore serious but don't care tried and true PVPers. Amateur would be where the "DPS DON"T CARES" could go... and the beginners could go to a "crash course intro" mapping... to learn a leveling. This would only mean for all of us that each level is a way to learn and earn. So, in essence.. in the end... the ones that surpass all the others could have a goal... stand alone against everyone else in a capture and hold... you hold they capture.. all vs you. Good idea.. LOVE it. now... put it to where builds are zip and everyone can do the same... like a starter ship with starter gear.... for the rights to win.. because being the best would mean you can use the worst and still show skill.
I think that if we could seperate each by group....5 man premade geared to the gills...to the beginners that just wanna wet the toe to learn and move on in story... all could find a place for it.. I think the community would shape around the motivations within.
As for a revamp, it needs it because private matches are killing the ability to do things. I have been on the KDF side and i used to break the planet every day when I came back when it went F2P... I can't get in after two weeks every day all day waiting for it to Que. That says alot. As far as the KDF being laughable... there should be the same number of ships that allow for pvp builds and modifications SPECIFICALLY for this. IE... fleet ships meant to do it, or zen ships meant to do it..
IT IS WAR! I think we would benefit from seeing more of the drama of it. I think it would make sense that each day.. the KDF vs Fed could fight it out on the fringe of both fronts. The edge would be the forefront of recruitment and concern.. now put the diplomacy into it where all in the team must get the planet to agree to aid.. for the power and control... yep ... I would play. This would utilize iteraction with diplomacy, each other, there would be specific goals to be done by profession and there would be accolades for choices. You get proc and buff bonus for all 5 success.... with minimum buff for no success. ThIS MAKES SENSE!.... see if you give suggestions.. instead of mass hate, it will halp them to help us. They can't read your minds.. and if you only spend all day bashing it, how are they to make it better if you don't take the time yourself to improve it by telling them how to help make it better?
here is a goal... posters after me I give you and prior posters a challenge... tell the readers 3 good things about PVP and where you can find proof in the community at large. Now, tell them what 3 things you would like to see improved... and the 3 things that every PVPer needs to know.. imagine explaining it to a person that doesn't understand videogames and this is the first one. Now, blend in a nice suggestion of what you would like to see different that would bring you back. THIS would be something that would HELP them help you and you get the revamp without spawncamp and you get it without fear as it would be YOUR suggestions motivating. How could it be steered wrong if you are navigating your own path? You are the ones that loved it once, you left because it lacked something.. fill in the gap to help others not feel your pain. I did by doing this post... can you?
The bold ones remind me of a bunch of MMOs, where you have dedicated PvP-Realms, an active PvP-community and where Open-PvP is encouraged. PvPers overdid it, with the effect that people have been transferring and rerolling on the winning teams side or moving to PvE-Realms, effectively destroying both Open- and instanced-PvP, as server populations were slanted 99% vs. 1% into one direction and you either couldn't find opponents or had hour-long waits on the PvP-queues.
The current thread is a prime example. Due to the behaviour of the self-appointed PvPers in this thread, they've probably moved quite a few, previously unbiased people, away from ever trying PvP, therefore killing it a small piece at a time.
And thats why PvE people stay away from PvP, the PvP people.
For someone who has tried PvP once or twice, its no fun jumping in and getting roflstomped. While i am all for a good challenge, PvP in this game isnt a challenge its suicide in a ship if you are unsure of what you are doing.
Between the min/maxers and macro monsters, well that seals it.
PvP players kill PvP in games. At this point there is no way to balance it in a way that will not infuriate the PvP community.
Short of a total revamp that makes PvP SPECIFIC consoles, weapons and sets, PvP will shrink more and more into Elitists that ruin the experience for others until only they are left and are having no fun trying to beat each other....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
never pvp, yet you know its just a den of scum bags, as mouthy as convicts? STO pvp is not call of duty. the rudest thing ive seen someone do in months is say good game ironically.
:rolleyes: why do i get the feeling that the trash talking doesn't start till after you guys start bombing zone chat first
totally absurd, no one who pvps wants to destroy it intentionally. pvp'ers hate 1 sided fights, they arent having any more fun then you are, they are here for a challenge, not shooting fish in a barrel. no one pats them selves on the back over it. whats are sci captains and sci ships to do anyway? its their job to shut someone down. some people may have a bit of a cheese addiction, but part of the problem is the rest of you putting every skill point into crit, and energy levels and not putting anything in to CC defense on your skill tree. subsystem repair, dampeners, power insulators. did you guys know that if you put 3 points into dampners, you would be immune to gravity well? that ones free.
im sure when you guys dip your toes in pvp you luck out and come across the worst of it, i deal with it everyday, but its not as unbeatable as you think, or even that bothersome once you know how tro deal. but, when we decide there is an imbalance in something, something thats 'destroying pvp', all we get from the pve community is there they go again, those pvpers, trying to destroy my pve with their pvp changes. they never actually end up changing something unless we prove theres a bug, or something becomes exploitative in PVE.
dont convince yourself its unplayable bad. most of the matches im in these days are great, many with ~14/15 scores. people arent actually going out of their way to ruin the experience for others, doesn't this sound insane at face value? its not even that common to run into those that inadvertently do. well depending on what your definition is anyway. to some, im sure every single sci captain, subnukeing you is destroying pvp every time he uses that. or every bug ship that uses cannon rapid fire on you. theres ways to counter this yourself, but working as a team you can render any of that nearly harmless.
you come off as not knowing what that means. it tends refer to any tac captain puging in a cruiser
this obsession with trash talking you all have. i see it maybe once every 20 matches. report those you see doing it! or, dont call some one a hacker when you get killed, and there wont be anyone trash talking.
You're hurting your position the more you post, and you need to know that.
Your approach is so full of cognitive bias and selective perception, of false equivalencies and other rhetorical tricks applied poorly that you may not have noticed that as this thread's gone on, you've only pushed more and more PVEers further away from ever trying PVP here.
Oh, right, one of your "arguments" was how tiny the forum population was. And you think the in-game behavior of your PVP buddies is any less repulsive? Either some supernatural force keeps people away from PVP and repulses them increasingly as time goes on from even trying it, or all your claims are pretty hollow.
Heck, look at what you've been saying here. Just about everyone here, myself included, has had bad PVP experiences here. Yet according to your our experiences don't matter. Only yours does. So you're already dismissing entirely out of hand everything being said here that isn't about you.
It's sort of hard to talk to someone who is functionally a brick wall of self-affirmation. You're only sinking your ship the longer you linger here.
Don't reply back to any of this would be my advice, from what I've seen this has gone down flameland and I wouldn't be surprised if a Mod came in and closed it.
As for those who had bad experiences in PvP it's true you will get stomped but no one wins all the time there have been times I've been killed 8+ times in a match easy but did I rage quit trash talk and leave? No I stuck it out and I put all i had into defence and tried to be as unkillable as I could. Difference was instead of letting that experience get to me I adapted and learnt now I don't die as often.
Kind of ironic when you think about it.
Almost no-one likes in-game PvP, but everyone loves a bit of forum PvP.
The STO PvP should be done with Mk1 while gear in Mk1 ships
Ain't Nobody Got Time for That
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When 2 level 50s match up, one can have green mk X-XII and exchange equipment while the other is in any one of the preset PVP builds, and they have no chance. Even if their build counters the PVP build, their gear simply will not be good enough.
PVE players do not PVP because a lot of us have tried it, and realized that we needed to spend 6 months gearing up to have a chance, AND that exactly what we needed to get was determined not by choice but by equations already solved. PVE at least lets us try the ship we want to fly using the playstyle that best suits us.
Solution: Split PVP into 3 queues.
1. No universal consoles, rep gear or fleet gear AT ALL. This includes fleet ships.
2. Add Fleet Gear and Fleet ships
3. Anything goes.
PVE players would play 1, many fleet members would go to 2 and the hardcore players would all pick 3. I suspect the PVP population would increase enough to fill the queues. A lot of my fleet PVPs against each other, just not in the borked queues.
nothing to add, it's the very truth (yepp... the one that people think doesn't exist) and i can't imagine any pvp'er in here, who not had to go through.
cyptic won't ever do anything about this. that's why bootcamp is player initiated and driven. and though cryptic gives rewards for participation (at least thx 4 that!) they keep on making it harder and harder to keep it running due to letting pvp in whole alone.
that doesn't encourage to invest anything into it (like time for teaching things cryptic should teach. actually i got little and probably lots to learn myself).
Ah, the old "opinion = truth" magic trick.
And these guys wonder why the rest of us care less and less for them while they tell us more and more how irreplacable and important they are if only we paid attention and catered to them.
Your attitude seems to be the exact same one that you're complaining about exists in PVP. Goes to show that it's people, and there are going to be bad eggs everywhere.
Harden up Princess
Looking for an Oceanic fleet? Check out our website:
www.ausmonauts.com
So here we are back to square one. "NYEEEEH you said something mean that vaguely resembles what PVPers screech all the time minus the swear words and references to orientation and the relationship status of their mothers, so now all PVP antisocial behavior is totally vindicated!!!!1".
Please.
Keep in mind the burden is on the PVPers, here and in game, to tell us why the rest of us should care a speck about their demands. So whining that it's all even and PVEers are equally obnoxious in game because of some anecdote is futile.
You're here to convince us. Us. Because if nothing happens, that means the devs didnt waste time on PVP and that's fine by most of us.
...well if this is only a opinion based on experience, i'm quite sure u can point me to that particular mission/doffing/whatever during levelling ur first char where u learned anything about game-mechanics.
u did found some? (really?) be glad and assured, there are not many with u... f.e. in the first place i flew around for several weeks without autofire switched on (until i found a hint at the forum)
...so.... plz just tell me where in my post i did say something like "yay, how good/important am i/we, inferior are <fill in group u think i wanted to bash>" (may sto-player/-devs/humans in whole fits in here?!
i just supported a point which is obviously to everyone who's willing to take a look behind the curtain. not only pvp'ers, but hc-pve'ers as well.
....just find one and ask about ingame learning-progression and where u have to go for.
...the one who says: "just play the game, u'll learn everything that way" lies.
that simple. it's the fleets, the forums, bootcamp, .....
indeed u just carry the impression of prejudices against "us"...
to conclude it: u seem to have a problem with the attitude of pvp'ers and tried to show that by taking my post as example.
sorry sir, u just bit ur own leg...