I'll throw a brutally honest answer into the mix...
I'm not very good at it. It makes me rage, it gives me stress. Mostly because I simply don't have the competitive instinct, and also, in my opinion, most competitive online players don't care at all about fun or fairness, they simply want the path of least resistance to victory, and will find any cheeseball way they can find to exploit and TRIBBLE their opponent over.
1) Got tired of constantly being sealclubbed by Hardcore teams who thought it's fun to beat up PuGs.
2) Got tired of the abusive chat of "GTFO", "Quit N00b", "Go back to PvP", and my favorite, personal tells tell me to kill myself.
3) Tired of being on the same maps over and over again.
4) Tired of Power Creep that made it hard for some builds to function.
5) Tired of Escort Dominance. (Which was extremely difficult back in the revamped Tactical Team).
6) Tired of Wargame zones, where it was easy for PvPers to kill people trying to do the PvE and make excuses that "hey this is what we supposed to do", when they knowingly are attacking people who are defenseless and not even bothering to do the PvE work on their end.
7) Bad Cryptic programming that made it easy for Spawn Camping.
What if there where a way to bypass playing against premade teams and encourage people to play space and ground opposed to one or the other? Would that help?
Man, don't know how many times I suggested that back in the day, but all I got was people laughing at me calling me a DumbA. Guaranteed if they did such a thing, the PvP population wouldn't be just a handful of players. I mean when STO started, the PvP queues were literally 500-600, compared to nowdays you normally see it in the 20s.
I also would've preferred a basic PvP system that's closer to Tier 1 PvP, where you basically have your ship and basic weapons, no fancy consoles, ship abilities, BOFFs or DOFFs. Plain and simple battles using strategy.
it's easier to guarantee success against the BORG instead of wasting my time and effort, i get my rewards and my fun. The day i hear a lot of 15-14 score lines is the day i'll try PVP again.
please excuse my whine but i don't have any cheese & crackers.
Try and understand the Chaos factor or just understand the variable, live long and live life Gee.
Used to PvP in the beginning (since there was really not much else there at end game), and it was even fun for a time. A lack of ship variety, consoles, etc. made PvP matches more or less fairly simplistic with everyone on even footing.
But then as season after season was released with little to no attention paid to PvP, I stopped caring. I stopped caring because it was obvious Cryptic stopped caring. PvP turned into a 'flavor of the month' type game. Where the latest cheesey exploitive builds were to be used until Cryptic got around to nerfing said build. So your PvP experience consisted entirely of how many matches you could cram into your day using an exploitive build before it was nerfed.
To me that isn't fun, sporting, or competitive. When my own friends who PvP were constantly using said cheese builds in 'friendly' PvP matches, I really stopped PvPing with them too. At least they were honest when they said they didn't care if they were exploiting an abusive build for their personal gain.
The same maps, un-tiered queues, lack of long-term reward, an extremely volatile and juvenile pvp community, and Cryptic's own neglect of the pvp aspect of STO has meant I only PvP for dailies. Once my daily is done, I don't PvP for the rest of the day.
And when I do PvP in my dailies, I don't even try. I don't AFK of course. But I just make a bee line to the enemy players, hit the space bar and maybe a few bridge officer powers and I basically play like a scrub until the match is over (3 times).I put no serious thought into a PvP fight, even if I do use a T5 ship and the latest equipment, etc.
PvP dailies are the means to an end, not something I care to devote any large portion of mental stamina towards. If I really wanted to I could make a cheesey exploitive build, but I have no reason to measure my e-peen. I have nothing to prove to anybody, and even if I did it wouldn't be to the juvenile 'hardcore' pvp subcommunity STO has.
PvP dailies to me mean flying around aimlessly, hitting random powers and shooting things waiting to die while hoping either your team or the enemy team completes the mission objectives so you can hurry up and get your rewards.
The only things that would get me to PvP again is a tiered system, premades vs. non-premades, a ladder system, an Elo ranking system, a better matchmaking system, or other such effort. More maps, pvp mission types, and long-term rewards for Pvp would also be acceptable in conjunction with the previous ideas.
I would also support every weapon/power/etc. to behave differently in PvP than in PvE and provide a clear and simple PvP experience not based on cheese. Rift was the best MMO pvp experience I had because it was clear the devs put serious thought into actually making it fun. If STO had a pvp experience similar to Rift, I would be in love.
Cryptic doesn't have to deliver perfection on the first try. If they at least showed me they were making an attempt to revitalize/repair PvP I would participate sincerely once again.
If Cryptic could meet me halfway, I would meet them halfway. If they showed me they had any interest in PvP, no matter the gesture... I would in turn meet them halfway.
If they can't, then I can't. And things will continue the way they currently are and have been going.
And I don't think that's unreasonable.
EDIT: Oh, and Star Citizen will teach STO a lesson the same way TOR did when BioDrones were clamoring about it on the forums the exact same way some of you are presently. Which is to say... no1curr.
I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
In space it is hard to defend against the hordes of players abusing g-well, faw, and sensor spam. Worse yet a full premade team of players who do that.
On ground, the pvp players simply have more skill points and traits invested in ground. Worse yet, a 5 man team of players who are ground spec and still feel the need to exploit, run broken sci officers, and cloak gank players with half their skill points invested even though such extreme measures are not called for.
A lone player who enters without a full team of seasoned pvp players is guaranteed a demoralizing and severe loss to a premade team. The chances of encountering these teams are far too high due to the limited number of pvp participants, but it is also the fault of these teams and fleets for running the pve majority out of the Q with their barbaric play style.
Could it be that pvp in this game is not fun and only exists for the sake of existing or feeling hard core? What would it take to get you interested in pvp? I would like to add that players from the pvp minority are not welcome on this thread. It is not for you. This thread is to find the opinions of the casual, pve majority.
In very few words: I want to explore the galaxy, not my ability to blow up other players ships for no other reason than to see if I could. This counts as much for my Klingon chars as it does for my Fed & Romulan chars.
I am actually, in fact, not a moron. People like this is why I am not motivated to play...
Never said you were buddy, I was just giving you fair warning, I don't PVP myself and there is no denying that there are are some really good people in the PVP crowd and if you're lucky you can hook up with them, but there's also the occasional jackahole that just ruins it that you gotta watch out for.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Just a funny thought - getting into PvP is like opening a lockbox.
Pretty often, you're gonna get blown apart in seconds, rendered completely helpless until someone comes by to blow you up, taunted by idiots who have nothing better to do, etc, etc....
But then there are some rare occasions where you get awesome fights, managing to outmaneuver someone just that little bit you need, or even witness someone actually be lucky enough to crit everyone on your team at once (yeah, to me, such a nutty occurrence is quite the laugh, even if I'm one of those that got blown up), or meet really nice people who really do want to help out.
It all depends on whether the bad stuff outweighs the good for you. Same way some people don't mind opening lockbox after lockbox getting junk until that one lucky box. On the other hand, many don't think the junk is worth it - and so they don't open the boxes. And that's the way it is.
Oh Dear not another Why don't you PvP/Why do PvPer's fear updates changes etc. This will likely descend into flameland so I'm going to get my flame retardant armour now but as people have said PvP is a bit like a lockbox.
Some people don't mind it (I am one of those folks) because you can have amazing fights and in PvP things happen at a much faster pace literally anything can happen. Plus an NPC can't do some of the daft things I've seen myself and others do in a PvP match which makes it funny too. I regulary go in with my fleet and we have fun we don't always win and we don't always lose either and yes sometimes you want to throw your keyboard out the airlock but its all worth it when you and your team beat a really good team who have a reputation for being awesome.
Way I see it is this if you don't like PvP its cool, the game is big enough for PvE content and end game stuff like the Anti Borg the Dyson sphere and all that jazz and the PvP arena's, tournaments and whatever else you wanna do in PvP lol. However one thing if you do try PvP don't be discouraged if you get blown up , when I went in first I was getting roasted faster than the christmas turkey but I teamed up with similar new people and we learned, we went to boot camp had fun and now we can hold our own. Remember Don't give up!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
No Drama, No Fuss, Just good old fashioned pew pew!
I know Cryptic can't easily undo the power creep, lock box, doff/boff enhancements.
I know PvE players enjoy story, having a clear mission with rewards and dislike joining PvP queues for assorted reasons.
I know PvP players enjoy adrenaline and notoriety within their community by defeating living opponents.
Simplified and incomplete assertions but I will start there.
I have lots of ideas but to begin I would settle for the following:
Create a queue for PvP minded players that want to raid enemy territory. They will not be dependent on PvE player participation for the queue to start. Random number of players, let's say 15. When that queue pops a red alert appears in sector space just like a borg encounter. Start a timer, perhaps 20 minutes. Allow any and all captains wandering sector space to hit the alert button and join the battle.
We could have 50+ defenders of all levels and abilities joining up. You would have a level of anonymity. People are expected to die so it's not a big deal. Defenders would have numerical advantage to offset the elite PvP players' abilities. If that's not advantage enough, you could make it no respawn for the attackers. That would really boost defender morale to know they knocked a ship out for good.
To keep the pvp players somewhat occupied they could have npc ships they need to keep from warping off until time runs out. If those 15 marauders or section 31 types survive against the odds and achieve their goal, they get a 24 hour bonus of some sort plus dilithium for doing PvP. If the defenders destroy the attackers and rescue the npc's they get the bonus. 24 hour skill point bonus plus dil? Any doff-like buff would do, make it different according to sector.
I think this would do so much good for the entire community. All the tough players would automatically be the bad guys and PvE types would have to work together, and learn about that tough player's abilities and ships over time. If you were a highly successful PvP player in this event you would get renown throughout the whole game. "We woulda' won if it weren't for player X" The whole sto community would learn about powers, ship types, tactics and any bugged things would be very exposed and more quickly fixed I think.
I would do this Red Alert as a defender all the time knowing I had lots of help and it didn't matter if I would normally be a scrub in pvp. It would bring more life into the Klingon faction too.
I'm okay that there is a Captain Fang out there somewhere. I'm okay that I'm not James Kirk. I would think it was fun to be among the ships that took either of them out.
There can be casual PvP if they let it happen.
Make it so.
Lousy community, abusive chat, and as close as P2W as you can get in this game.
If there was some sort of PVP with standard builds going into the match i might consider it, but as it is today they may as well remove it from the game.
Have to absolutely agree here. Pvp'd once and before the match even started the abuse was flying. I'm a grown up and the childish need to scream obscenities left me long ago.
all these bs excuses, oh they are all elitist, oh the power creep, oh the cookie cutters and FOTM, oh they are all cheating exploiters, all nonsense. you here these complaints about every single different group in every single different game. you dont like pvp because your not good at it. the pve did you no favors, it did the opposite of prepare you for pvp, it dumber you down. you can blunder through pve no mater what you bring, the only difference is how long it takes to win.
>snip<
the link in my sig is my attempt to guid anyone who wants to really have fun in this game.
That's hypocrisy. Calling everyone else a negative reactionary windbag after showing them exactly what a terminally-biased negative reactionary windbag looks like. Just get back under your bridge already.
Damn, this forum needs an ignore list in the worst way possible.
Here, the PVP gameplay is so tipped in favor of min-maxing one-true-way templates and passive buff stacking that there's just about no entry floor for new people.
Maybe we're coming at this wrong, and the devs really know what they're about. Perhaps it all is working as intended, and they just haven't completed the revamp that will end in a newly proclaimed "PvP-focused faction." What faction? The True Way, of course! what's really been happening isn't accidental power creep, but tailoring PvP to fit their plans of a faction devoted to it as it's really going to happen no matter what the devs want it to be like.
Or maybe it is just horribly broken and they don't particularly care since it's not utilized by enough players to really impact the bottom line...but it's an amusing idea if nothing else, eh?
6) Tired of Wargame zones, where it was easy for PvPers to kill people trying to do the PvE and make excuses that "hey this is what we supposed to do", when they knowingly are attacking people who are defenseless and not even bothering to do the PvE work on their end.
I would like to point out that the KDF has a PvP kill mission, and some people like to fill it in Ker'rat (which I assume is what you're talking about). Especially since there's less in the way of premade pugstompers there, most of the time.
And, whether you want to accept it or not, it IS a zone with PvP, and you cannot enter the zone and avoid the PvP. If you want a PvE zone, go to a PvE zone. There are plenty of those, the combined development effort of which represents more dev resources than PvP ever received. Have your fill of blowing up utterly mindless NPCs that can't complain about your unbalanced PvE build.
Also, let's not forget that, for the majority of the time, the KDF is usually quite outnumbered (2-1 or worse). When there's a 'l33t' Fed farming group working the zone, the bloody reset timer (3 minutes) can be triggered within 30 seconds of the reset warp-in. This means the OBJECTIVE is completed within 30 seconds or so, thereby denying it to the KDF. There's no POINT in KDF trying to complete the PvE objective unless they happen to dominate the zone temporarily. That being said, there is a mission that rewards killing the NPC enemies, and some KDF do engage in that. . .at least when there isn't an infestation of Feddies that will gank 'em the minute they decloak without firing on anyone.
Forum goers here will take the opportunity to make snarky comments at each other and pot shots at PvPers but the fact is there are nice and there are mean PvP'rs just as there are nice and there are mean PvE'rs.
We do know that only about 10-15% of MMO players actually ever visit the forums and they tend to be vocal and passionate about their particular interests. My best guess would be that people rarely PvP because there aren't enough rewards (marks, EC, Dil, whatever) compared to the time invested.
That's a big part of it too, with so much grind in the game, what reward is there other than bragging rights in PVP? A ranking? Some worthless Accolade?
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
That may be true, but contrary to what some PVPers have claimed here, no, PVP is not better behaved. It's worse most of the time, and especially suffers from "sore winners" who are so starved for a one sided cheap gank that they have to rub it in, which makes the next gank take much longer because less people even queue or enter Kerrat, and so on.
Forum goers here will take the opportunity to make snarky comments at each other and pot shots at PvPers but the fact is there are nice and there are mean PvP'rs just as there are nice and there are mean PvE'rs.
We do know that only about 10-15% of MMO players actually ever visit the forums and they tend to be vocal and passionate about their particular interests. My best guess would be that people rarely PvP because there aren't enough rewards (marks, EC, Dil, whatever) compared to the time invested.
False equivalency, and a very old one too. "I saw this happen once, so years or decades of rotten attitude from pvpers is totally equal to pve behavior".
You're free to make a guess, but I'm very skeptical throwing out more rewards will do anything but give the gankers more reason to gank and perhaps lure in a few more victims to be ganked, before pvp dries up yet again.
False equivalency, and a very old one too. "I saw this happen once, so years or decades of rotten attitude from pvpers is totally equal to pve behavior".
You're free to make a guess, but I'm very skeptical throwing out more rewards will do anything but give the gankers more reason to gank and perhaps lure in a few more victims to be ganked, before pvp dries up yet again.
False equivalency? This isn't debate class buddy. The whole PvE vs PvP argument is not constructive and is frankly a waste of time. Say what you will. It's my opinion that there are both friendly and rude players to be found either way. You're generalizing all PvP'ers as "gankers" when they are not. Myself, I like to reverse or "mirror" gank my teammates into staying alive.
The problem with PvP is the current structure is completely bottle necked.
Essentially, all the PvP players end up in the same place.
The person who has spent three years grinding and refining their PvP specialised min/maxed build, and the person who only considered the possibility of PvP five minutes ago and is flying a Galaxy with mk X white photon beams.
If PvP is to get any traction in the game beyond a highly specialised niche then the bottle necks have to be avoidable.
In my view this requires Cryptic do two things.
Firstly create something that tracks and stores stats in PvP.
By allowing some form of ranking based on k/dr or time spent playing, especially if we can filter by either profession or ship class, we gain the ability to pit players against each other in a more even way.
Will some try to exploit the system? Undoubtedly. However, it would actually be a fair amount of work involving losing on purpose to decrease the k/dr.
Somehow I doubt enough players will want to lose on purpose in order to gank people to seriously distort the rankings.
Secondly, create a foundry wrapper that allows two teams of players to enter at the same time.
Another part of the bottleneck is the woeful lack of maps. Creating a lot of maps is a time intensive thing to ask cryptic to do. So don't.
Take a leaf out of the various half life games and let the modders create the content.
Just like such games, there'll be a lot of tosh, but there'll also be a few gems.
However, as things stand, there's not enough rhyme, reason or balance around PvP.
Unless things change its going to stay a minority activity.
False equivalency? This isn't debate class buddy. The whole PvE vs PvP argument is not constructive and is frankly a waste of time. Say what you will. It's my opinion that there are both friendly and rude players to be found either way. You're generalizing all PvP'ers as "gankers" when they are not. Myself, I like to reverse or "mirror" gank my teammates into staying alive.
A false equivalency is a false equivalency, whether you want to whine about it or not. It shows you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
Anecdotes can be found to justify any behavior. Hell, a single 90 year old chain-smokes, so smoking is safe, right?
Point stands. The burden is on the PVPers to justify why the rest of us should even care about their little corner of the game. Saying "but but some PVEers are jerks" doesn't change the fact that most of us PVE and avoid PVP in this game, and have some very good reasons.
If you bothered reading the thread you'd see that it's the nasty attitudes that you don't want to talk about that is keeping large numbers of casual players from enjoying PvP.
Nasty attitudes and a complete lack of sportsmanship, you are right. But, I believe there are ways to bypass those problems with a more advanced pvp Q or a ranking system to separate skilled/chronic pvp players from casual players.
A false equivalency is a false equivalency, whether you want to whine about it or not. It shows you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
Anecdotes can be found to justify any behavior. Hell, a single 90 year old chain-smokes, so smoking is safe, right?
Point stands. The burden is on the PVPers to justify why the rest of us should even care about their little corner of the game. Saying "but but some PVEers are jerks" doesn't change the fact that most of us PVE and avoid PVP in this game, and have some very good reasons.
Your point doesn't stand. And I don't appreciate your tone. I really don't care what you think and it's better that you stop quoting me or trying to debate me. I'm only interested in discussing this topic constructively which you appear to have zero interest in.
There is no burden on anyone to justify anything. Those that want to PvP will do so and those that don't won't. It's simple. I don't really buy the argument that PvE only players don't PvP for some very good reasons. I do buy that they just don't like to PvP so they don't. And I respect that. It takes a particular type of gamer to enjoy PvP. And those players generally aren't found in MMORPGs because by their very nature cannot be balanced and they don't provide a good PvP experience in general.
MMORPGs like STO are far too rife with exploiters, script runners, botters, and cheaters to ever be taken seriously. Let alone a Free to Play one that attracts the most casual gamers and caters to the lowest denominator.
Comments
I'm not very good at it. It makes me rage, it gives me stress. Mostly because I simply don't have the competitive instinct, and also, in my opinion, most competitive online players don't care at all about fun or fairness, they simply want the path of least resistance to victory, and will find any cheeseball way they can find to exploit and TRIBBLE their opponent over.
that and I've done enough PvP in this game to have memorized all the pvp maps. *zzzzz* they bore me.
My character Tsin'xing
1) Got tired of constantly being sealclubbed by Hardcore teams who thought it's fun to beat up PuGs.
2) Got tired of the abusive chat of "GTFO", "Quit N00b", "Go back to PvP", and my favorite, personal tells tell me to kill myself.
3) Tired of being on the same maps over and over again.
4) Tired of Power Creep that made it hard for some builds to function.
5) Tired of Escort Dominance. (Which was extremely difficult back in the revamped Tactical Team).
6) Tired of Wargame zones, where it was easy for PvPers to kill people trying to do the PvE and make excuses that "hey this is what we supposed to do", when they knowingly are attacking people who are defenseless and not even bothering to do the PvE work on their end.
7) Bad Cryptic programming that made it easy for Spawn Camping.
Man, don't know how many times I suggested that back in the day, but all I got was people laughing at me calling me a DumbA. Guaranteed if they did such a thing, the PvP population wouldn't be just a handful of players. I mean when STO started, the PvP queues were literally 500-600, compared to nowdays you normally see it in the 20s.
I also would've preferred a basic PvP system that's closer to Tier 1 PvP, where you basically have your ship and basic weapons, no fancy consoles, ship abilities, BOFFs or DOFFs. Plain and simple battles using strategy.
please excuse my whine but i don't have any cheese & crackers.
But then as season after season was released with little to no attention paid to PvP, I stopped caring. I stopped caring because it was obvious Cryptic stopped caring. PvP turned into a 'flavor of the month' type game. Where the latest cheesey exploitive builds were to be used until Cryptic got around to nerfing said build. So your PvP experience consisted entirely of how many matches you could cram into your day using an exploitive build before it was nerfed.
To me that isn't fun, sporting, or competitive. When my own friends who PvP were constantly using said cheese builds in 'friendly' PvP matches, I really stopped PvPing with them too. At least they were honest when they said they didn't care if they were exploiting an abusive build for their personal gain.
The same maps, un-tiered queues, lack of long-term reward, an extremely volatile and juvenile pvp community, and Cryptic's own neglect of the pvp aspect of STO has meant I only PvP for dailies. Once my daily is done, I don't PvP for the rest of the day.
And when I do PvP in my dailies, I don't even try. I don't AFK of course. But I just make a bee line to the enemy players, hit the space bar and maybe a few bridge officer powers and I basically play like a scrub until the match is over (3 times).I put no serious thought into a PvP fight, even if I do use a T5 ship and the latest equipment, etc.
PvP dailies are the means to an end, not something I care to devote any large portion of mental stamina towards. If I really wanted to I could make a cheesey exploitive build, but I have no reason to measure my e-peen. I have nothing to prove to anybody, and even if I did it wouldn't be to the juvenile 'hardcore' pvp subcommunity STO has.
PvP dailies to me mean flying around aimlessly, hitting random powers and shooting things waiting to die while hoping either your team or the enemy team completes the mission objectives so you can hurry up and get your rewards.
The only things that would get me to PvP again is a tiered system, premades vs. non-premades, a ladder system, an Elo ranking system, a better matchmaking system, or other such effort. More maps, pvp mission types, and long-term rewards for Pvp would also be acceptable in conjunction with the previous ideas.
I would also support every weapon/power/etc. to behave differently in PvP than in PvE and provide a clear and simple PvP experience not based on cheese. Rift was the best MMO pvp experience I had because it was clear the devs put serious thought into actually making it fun. If STO had a pvp experience similar to Rift, I would be in love.
Cryptic doesn't have to deliver perfection on the first try. If they at least showed me they were making an attempt to revitalize/repair PvP I would participate sincerely once again.
If Cryptic could meet me halfway, I would meet them halfway. If they showed me they had any interest in PvP, no matter the gesture... I would in turn meet them halfway.
If they can't, then I can't. And things will continue the way they currently are and have been going.
And I don't think that's unreasonable.
EDIT: Oh, and Star Citizen will teach STO a lesson the same way TOR did when BioDrones were clamoring about it on the forums the exact same way some of you are presently. Which is to say... no1curr.
In very few words: I want to explore the galaxy, not my ability to blow up other players ships for no other reason than to see if I could. This counts as much for my Klingon chars as it does for my Fed & Romulan chars.
Pretty often, you're gonna get blown apart in seconds, rendered completely helpless until someone comes by to blow you up, taunted by idiots who have nothing better to do, etc, etc....
But then there are some rare occasions where you get awesome fights, managing to outmaneuver someone just that little bit you need, or even witness someone actually be lucky enough to crit everyone on your team at once (yeah, to me, such a nutty occurrence is quite the laugh, even if I'm one of those that got blown up), or meet really nice people who really do want to help out.
It all depends on whether the bad stuff outweighs the good for you. Same way some people don't mind opening lockbox after lockbox getting junk until that one lucky box. On the other hand, many don't think the junk is worth it - and so they don't open the boxes. And that's the way it is.
Some people don't mind it (I am one of those folks) because you can have amazing fights and in PvP things happen at a much faster pace literally anything can happen. Plus an NPC can't do some of the daft things I've seen myself and others do in a PvP match which makes it funny too. I regulary go in with my fleet and we have fun we don't always win and we don't always lose either and yes sometimes you want to throw your keyboard out the airlock but its all worth it when you and your team beat a really good team who have a reputation for being awesome.
Way I see it is this if you don't like PvP its cool, the game is big enough for PvE content and end game stuff like the Anti Borg the Dyson sphere and all that jazz and the PvP arena's, tournaments and whatever else you wanna do in PvP lol. However one thing if you do try PvP don't be discouraged if you get blown up , when I went in first I was getting roasted faster than the christmas turkey but I teamed up with similar new people and we learned, we went to boot camp had fun and now we can hold our own. Remember Don't give up!!
I know PvE players enjoy story, having a clear mission with rewards and dislike joining PvP queues for assorted reasons.
I know PvP players enjoy adrenaline and notoriety within their community by defeating living opponents.
Simplified and incomplete assertions but I will start there.
I have lots of ideas but to begin I would settle for the following:
Create a queue for PvP minded players that want to raid enemy territory. They will not be dependent on PvE player participation for the queue to start. Random number of players, let's say 15. When that queue pops a red alert appears in sector space just like a borg encounter. Start a timer, perhaps 20 minutes. Allow any and all captains wandering sector space to hit the alert button and join the battle.
We could have 50+ defenders of all levels and abilities joining up. You would have a level of anonymity. People are expected to die so it's not a big deal. Defenders would have numerical advantage to offset the elite PvP players' abilities. If that's not advantage enough, you could make it no respawn for the attackers. That would really boost defender morale to know they knocked a ship out for good.
To keep the pvp players somewhat occupied they could have npc ships they need to keep from warping off until time runs out. If those 15 marauders or section 31 types survive against the odds and achieve their goal, they get a 24 hour bonus of some sort plus dilithium for doing PvP. If the defenders destroy the attackers and rescue the npc's they get the bonus. 24 hour skill point bonus plus dil? Any doff-like buff would do, make it different according to sector.
I think this would do so much good for the entire community. All the tough players would automatically be the bad guys and PvE types would have to work together, and learn about that tough player's abilities and ships over time. If you were a highly successful PvP player in this event you would get renown throughout the whole game. "We woulda' won if it weren't for player X" The whole sto community would learn about powers, ship types, tactics and any bugged things would be very exposed and more quickly fixed I think.
I would do this Red Alert as a defender all the time knowing I had lots of help and it didn't matter if I would normally be a scrub in pvp. It would bring more life into the Klingon faction too.
I'm okay that there is a Captain Fang out there somewhere. I'm okay that I'm not James Kirk. I would think it was fun to be among the ships that took either of them out.
There can be casual PvP if they let it happen.
Make it so.
Have to absolutely agree here. Pvp'd once and before the match even started the abuse was flying. I'm a grown up and the childish need to scream obscenities left me long ago.
Do you know what "hypocrisy" is? Let me show you:
That's hypocrisy. Calling everyone else a negative reactionary windbag after showing them exactly what a terminally-biased negative reactionary windbag looks like. Just get back under your bridge already.
Damn, this forum needs an ignore list in the worst way possible.
Maybe we're coming at this wrong, and the devs really know what they're about. Perhaps it all is working as intended, and they just haven't completed the revamp that will end in a newly proclaimed "PvP-focused faction." What faction? The True Way, of course! what's really been happening isn't accidental power creep, but tailoring PvP to fit their plans of a faction devoted to it as it's really going to happen no matter what the devs want it to be like.
Or maybe it is just horribly broken and they don't particularly care since it's not utilized by enough players to really impact the bottom line...but it's an amusing idea if nothing else, eh?
I would like to point out that the KDF has a PvP kill mission, and some people like to fill it in Ker'rat (which I assume is what you're talking about). Especially since there's less in the way of premade pugstompers there, most of the time.
And, whether you want to accept it or not, it IS a zone with PvP, and you cannot enter the zone and avoid the PvP. If you want a PvE zone, go to a PvE zone. There are plenty of those, the combined development effort of which represents more dev resources than PvP ever received. Have your fill of blowing up utterly mindless NPCs that can't complain about your unbalanced PvE build.
Also, let's not forget that, for the majority of the time, the KDF is usually quite outnumbered (2-1 or worse). When there's a 'l33t' Fed farming group working the zone, the bloody reset timer (3 minutes) can be triggered within 30 seconds of the reset warp-in. This means the OBJECTIVE is completed within 30 seconds or so, thereby denying it to the KDF. There's no POINT in KDF trying to complete the PvE objective unless they happen to dominate the zone temporarily. That being said, there is a mission that rewards killing the NPC enemies, and some KDF do engage in that. . .at least when there isn't an infestation of Feddies that will gank 'em the minute they decloak without firing on anyone.
A month pass by already?
Second verse, same as the first: It's not a game designed for PvP.
And because of that its abusive language, and a lot of mimimimimimi
I've seen some great rage rants in PVE
Written for the truth.
We do know that only about 10-15% of MMO players actually ever visit the forums and they tend to be vocal and passionate about their particular interests. My best guess would be that people rarely PvP because there aren't enough rewards (marks, EC, Dil, whatever) compared to the time invested.
That may be true, but contrary to what some PVPers have claimed here, no, PVP is not better behaved. It's worse most of the time, and especially suffers from "sore winners" who are so starved for a one sided cheap gank that they have to rub it in, which makes the next gank take much longer because less people even queue or enter Kerrat, and so on.
False equivalency, and a very old one too. "I saw this happen once, so years or decades of rotten attitude from pvpers is totally equal to pve behavior".
You're free to make a guess, but I'm very skeptical throwing out more rewards will do anything but give the gankers more reason to gank and perhaps lure in a few more victims to be ganked, before pvp dries up yet again.
False equivalency? This isn't debate class buddy. The whole PvE vs PvP argument is not constructive and is frankly a waste of time. Say what you will. It's my opinion that there are both friendly and rude players to be found either way. You're generalizing all PvP'ers as "gankers" when they are not. Myself, I like to reverse or "mirror" gank my teammates into staying alive.
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Essentially, all the PvP players end up in the same place.
The person who has spent three years grinding and refining their PvP specialised min/maxed build, and the person who only considered the possibility of PvP five minutes ago and is flying a Galaxy with mk X white photon beams.
If PvP is to get any traction in the game beyond a highly specialised niche then the bottle necks have to be avoidable.
In my view this requires Cryptic do two things.
Firstly create something that tracks and stores stats in PvP.
By allowing some form of ranking based on k/dr or time spent playing, especially if we can filter by either profession or ship class, we gain the ability to pit players against each other in a more even way.
Will some try to exploit the system? Undoubtedly. However, it would actually be a fair amount of work involving losing on purpose to decrease the k/dr.
Somehow I doubt enough players will want to lose on purpose in order to gank people to seriously distort the rankings.
Secondly, create a foundry wrapper that allows two teams of players to enter at the same time.
Another part of the bottleneck is the woeful lack of maps. Creating a lot of maps is a time intensive thing to ask cryptic to do. So don't.
Take a leaf out of the various half life games and let the modders create the content.
Just like such games, there'll be a lot of tosh, but there'll also be a few gems.
However, as things stand, there's not enough rhyme, reason or balance around PvP.
Unless things change its going to stay a minority activity.
A false equivalency is a false equivalency, whether you want to whine about it or not. It shows you don't have much of a leg to stand on.
Anecdotes can be found to justify any behavior. Hell, a single 90 year old chain-smokes, so smoking is safe, right?
Point stands. The burden is on the PVPers to justify why the rest of us should even care about their little corner of the game. Saying "but but some PVEers are jerks" doesn't change the fact that most of us PVE and avoid PVP in this game, and have some very good reasons.
A block on /zone chat in pvp zones might be a huge improvement, to tie things together. A small but easy to implement fix.
Of course the obnoxious ones might use /tells to do the same thing, but it still bottlenecks the behavior.
You hit the nail on the head with this one.
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Nasty attitudes and a complete lack of sportsmanship, you are right. But, I believe there are ways to bypass those problems with a more advanced pvp Q or a ranking system to separate skilled/chronic pvp players from casual players.
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Your point doesn't stand. And I don't appreciate your tone. I really don't care what you think and it's better that you stop quoting me or trying to debate me. I'm only interested in discussing this topic constructively which you appear to have zero interest in.
There is no burden on anyone to justify anything. Those that want to PvP will do so and those that don't won't. It's simple. I don't really buy the argument that PvE only players don't PvP for some very good reasons. I do buy that they just don't like to PvP so they don't. And I respect that. It takes a particular type of gamer to enjoy PvP. And those players generally aren't found in MMORPGs because by their very nature cannot be balanced and they don't provide a good PvP experience in general.
MMORPGs like STO are far too rife with exploiters, script runners, botters, and cheaters to ever be taken seriously. Let alone a Free to Play one that attracts the most casual gamers and caters to the lowest denominator.