The game simply isn't designed properly for pvp. Not only are there too many op'd builds out there, but the abilities themselves make for an unplayable scenario. There's far too much gravity well/cannon rapid fire and scatter volley going on to have any sort of balanced or fun pvp match. If its a 1v1, then there's no problem, but for teams, there have to be limits. For instance, abilities like gravity well and tykens rift need to be removed from the pvp arena, along with other area effect abilities. Even some personal abilities need to be taken out. Things like miracle worker and rotate shield frequency make certain builds nearly impossible to overcome unless the whole team is focusing fire on that target. I would also say that cooldowns for all other abilities should be extended, and abilities that reduce cooldown removed. Maybe include a team battle point system, something that calculates player level and ship type along with equipment to match teams up against each other more fairly, and have seperate queues for pugs and premades.
Which would be more helpful, or would both or these things have a positive result;
-A ranking/ladder system to separate unskilled players from skilled players
Basically a billboard advertising whose e-peen is biggest and incentivizing "anything to climb up the boards" mentalities. Also an open door to "newbie trolling" where one makes a low-level alt to use for an elite-skilled player to go ROFLstomping through the newbie levels.
I can't make it any clearer than this: The problem is people, and until you can figure out how to change people you're urinating into a gale-force wind. (And the results of that are about as predictable as the weather in Death Valley.)
The problem is people, and until you can figure out how to change people you're urinating into a gale-force wind. (And the results of that are about as predictable as the weather in Death Valley.)
If we could separate the players it would be a start. SC2 has a ranking system in which wins add points and losses deduct points. The system places you in a player group with similar scores.
Basically a billboard advertising whose e-peen is biggest and incentivizing "anything to climb up the boards" mentalities. Also an open door to "newbie trolling" where one makes a low-level alt to use for an elite-skilled player to go ROFLstomping through the newbie levels.
I can't make it any clearer than this: The problem is people, and until you can figure out how to change people you're urinating into a gale-force wind. (And the results of that are about as predictable as the weather in Death Valley.)
You hit the nail right on the head there! It's an accepted truth that the only person you can actually change is yourself.
My advice, give up on trying to get PvE players into PvP. We're just simply not interested. The only folks you can attract more are PvPers who just don't like the PvP in STO. You MIGHT get a few briefly into territorial PvP where there are good rewards to be had, but it will only last up until the point where 1 or 2 groups of PvP elitist *** hats take over every territory there is, and just sit on it. At which point, they'll go away again. Those who've been there, done that, wont even bother coming along in the first place as we know what's coming.
If we could separate the players it would be a start. SC2 has a ranking system in which wins add points and losses deduct points. The system places you in a player group with similar scores.
And can you tell me people don't game that system by deliberately winning/losing matches to move up/down the ranking scale?
But if you wanna whiz into that wind, go right ahead.
The only system that can work is one where everyone's on board and likes the way things are. Artificial methods to simulate that only result in giving trolls and griefers new ways to have fun.
You MIGHT get a few briefly into territorial PvP where there are good rewards to be had, but it will only last up until the point where 1 or 2 groups of PvP elitist *** hats take over every territory there is, and just sit on it. At which point, they'll go away again.
The conduct of the PVP community is an issue which is why separating them from the common player base is a solution.
I think for the most part PvE is too easy. I'm not knocking PvE players as I am one myself but I do like PvP on certain terms. The only challenge for me in this game is on constructing the best most balanced build I can. (Oh and getting all my reps done)
You can go into any PvE even an STF in an under-powered and unbalanced ship and come out like roses. Some do missions now with low level gear just to make them challenging. I typically look at various people's builds via Gateway usually looking for ways to improve mine and all I usually see is stupid builds where a person has mixed gear or consoles that don't support weapons, sensor consoles on as tac ship, etc. I can only imagine if I could see there skill setup or trait selection.
I like to keep my toons balanced for both space and ground combat. I think most PvPers probably have a toon for each and spec as much as then can for that type of play. This makes any balanced player build want to stay away.
Ultimately the problem lies with a very weak need for skill in the PvE arena which allows people to get away with lopsided skill builds, junk console builds, and poor skill point allocation. I have a toon who hasn't even allocated 1/3 of his skill points or selected traits or doffs and I blast my way through most of the lvl 50 PvE queue content out there. This game used to be far more challenging 2 years ago. I think folks since then really haven't had to focus on good quality builds (or learning how to make one) in PvE and so haven't found good balance to go into PvP... but the same can be said of a one sided PvP build.
If I PvP anymore... I like to do it in fleet or with friends in a private queue not in the public queues. I am by no means the best build out there but that to me is what makes this game so unique from others. There is so much depth to what you can do with you character that no two are alike.
Just to make the best setup you need to pick the right skills, traits, doffs, bridge crew, bridge skills, weapons, procs, consoles, devices, equipment sets, calculate all those variable numbers through some trial and error and others experience. I think this is a lot of what PvPers do that PvE players don't want to bother with.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
The conduct of the PVP community is an issue which is why separating them from the common player base is a solution.
You'd think that would work. I've played MMOs though that have had 2 servers, a PvE one and a PvP one. You'd THINK the hard core PvPers would locate themselves on the PvP server, but nope, it's more fun for them to stick around on the PvE server and stomp on the players there...
The only plus with having a 2 server model is that you can nerf skills for the PvP crowd but buff them for the PvE players. You can do that though just by using a switch that nerfs or buffs by detecting if the player is in a PvE map or a PvP map.
The conduct of the PVP community is an issue which is why separating them from the common player base is a solution.
But it's not a solution if it can't be accomplished, and until you figure out how to prevent "the undesirable" from making alts, sneaking through loopholes, and otherwise moving Heaven and Earth to keep on doing things their way then you're still tilting at windmills. Badly tilting at them, even, until you come up with a new idea- which this thread, and even your latest "This could be it" idea aren't.
And the feds that I am fighting are not feds from Star Trek. They are whiney children. It ruins the star trek experience for me.
Any Fed who says "LOLwhut?" makes me think they couldn't have went through NOT ONLY starfleet academy, but primary school.
Yes, space pvp is far too cluttered with abilities and has lost the original concept of downing an opponents shields and then striking them with a torpedo.
it's the power creep. Those of you who have been PvPing for a long time have all the great expensive toys and wonky powers. Some of us don't give a rat's behind about the newest shiny toy, or ridiculous power. We just want to fly around and pew pew casually.
There is no such thing as "casual PvP". You are all geared to the teeth with overpowered, expensive gear, purchased to continue being better than the next guy and either exploit or use the latest trick/bug/whatever.
Lastly, the community I have encountered is acerbic, rude, mean, and generally unwelcoming. Insults all the time. People telling me to go back to PvE because I'm worthless in PvP , etc etc.
For all of the reasons stated above and because I know that if I encounter a pre-made, I'm going to lose no matter what I do. So that means there is no point in trying, is there?
There IS actually a way to make PvP slightly more enjoyable, you disable any form of in game chat completely. For that though, the game needs to be purely a PvP one. That opens up yet another can of worms though, and doesn't fix the other problems.
Stopped pvp because it wasn't fun and it should be the best part of space combat, most PUG matches were one sided - okay to win and totally tedious to lose. In 50+ games I had 2 really good ones with evenly matched teams repeatedly exchanging the lead and fighting to the end. Premades, pay2win and to a lesser extent escort/cloak dominance made it clear the only way to get consistently enjoyable games is to pay2win in a premade against other serious players, I don't wan to play against people spending hundreds of real world dollars on a bug ship, or 100m EC on doffs for some killer build I can't touch. I don't want to put the effort in to enter their world.
Ground combat in this game is appalling and I haven't played a PC shooter since half life 2 came out so probably wouldn't bother if it improved anyway.
I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
In space it is hard to defend against the hordes of players abusing g-well, faw, and sensor spam. Worse yet a full premade team of players who do that.
On ground, the pvp players simply have more skill points and traits invested in ground. Worse yet, a 5 man team of players who are ground spec and still feel the need to exploit, run broken sci officers, and cloak gank players with half their skill points invested even though such extreme measures are not called for.
A lone player who enters without a full team of seasoned pvp players is guaranteed a demoralizing and severe loss to a premade team. The chances of encountering these teams are far too high due to the limited number of pvp participants, but it is also the fault of these teams and fleets for running the pve majority out of the Q with their barbaric play style.
Could it be that pvp in this game is not fun and only exists for the sake of existing or feeling hard core? What would it take to get you interested in pvp? I would like to add that players from the pvp minority are not welcome on this thread. It is not for you. This thread is to find the opinions of the casual, pve majority.
I enjoy pvp and a little bit of pve one of the reasons I don't like pve is that it is too easy especially the ground. I also don't like the abusive chat and the lack of communication
So I think pvp should be more popular and criptic needs to make more maps for it especially the ground pvp
Interesting replies, the worse thing Cryptic will do absolutely NOTHING for the PVP side to improve it for the new players.
What would make the queues better is to have a queue where everyone chooses stock ships with abilities of their choosing and no consoles. Bit like Tribes 2 where you choose your load out and class so ship in this case.
Only Mk X gear will be used and that will be default.
But what ever reasonable suggestions we have on here or the last few years, Crptic has continued to shun PVP and continued with the power creep, broken mechanics and neglected PVP maps/ queues.
I would like to say more about PVP but what is the point since even the Devs have not acknowledged nor said anything solid since season 1. Alot of us are disillusioned with PVP atm and I suggest you take a look at Star Citizen because when that comes out, alot of us will be moving there and Cryptic/STO will be hurting.
I hope STO gets closed down eventually especially post Star Citizen and be an example to other MMO's that if you neglect the community, your wallets will also be neglected.
I for one have not bought anything from the C store for some time and refuse to do so until Crytpic improves PVP.
Sad really how Cryptic treats it's own PVP community and instead focuses on more costumes or Rubbish episodes they keep bringing back for a limited time.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I hope STO gets closed down eventually especially post Star Citizen and be an example to other MMO's that if you neglect the community, your wallets will also be neglected.
More likely outcome: Star Citizen opens, STO PvPers announce "Now we'll see what's what," STO goes along its merry way without even noticing- thus being an example to small crowds of narrow-focused one-trick pony players that the majority can support the game just fine without catering to one little bunch of self-absorbed whiners.
More likely outcome: Star Citizen opens, STO PvPers announce "Now we'll see what's what," STO goes along its merry way without even noticing- thus being an example to small crowds of narrow-focused one-trick pony players that the majority can support the game just fine without catering to one little bunch of self-absorbed whiners.
You forgot the part where they STILL post on here about how rubbish STO is.... Not a dig, just an observation based on past experience of countless MMO forums.
More likely outcome: Star Citizen opens, STO PvPers announce "Now we'll see what's what," STO goes along its merry way without even noticing- thus being an example to small crowds of narrow-focused one-trick pony players that the majority can support the game just fine without catering to one little bunch of self-absorbed whiners.
So what Part have I posted incorrect? Instead of trolling me have you actually tried PVP and understood how poor it is and how neglected and disilliusioned the whole community is? Have you tried testing the broken mechanics, the 5 man TIF, GPG, SS doffs?
I am not going to trash talk you as that is not what I do, but have a look at what you posted and see what you have added to this thread.
Do you really think Cryptic has so much money they don't need to care about the community? Have a think why they added a hanger to the Ar'kif for example or the proliferation of all these lcok box ships, doffs, why F2P only has a 10mil EC cap limiting you what you can buy on the exchange, forcing you to spend ZEN to upgrade or RL money to buy stuff.
Look at the Mechwarrior online community, the developers stuck two fingers up to the backers and peed alot of the community off since they were promised one thing and got something entirely different at launch. That game is now in decline with multiple releasing of packs and more goodies and p2w to help with their depleted banks.
Don't for a second be naive as to think PVP can be removed from any MMO. You might as well play a single player game if all you do is just episodes and just GG after a 50 min ISE
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Double shields and Hull points for vessels in PVP matches as standard.
Separate the Q's.
1. Random solo.
2. Random premade teams.
3. stock ships solo.
4. stock ships premade teams.
5. Challenge/teams.
6. Chalenge/One on One.
Stock ships refer to any in the game available to all through general play.
And equiped Via items available through general play including PVP rep system items.
Rare XI limit.
Challenge matches would show who has put down an open challenge to be accepted.
Modes.
1. Arena Standard. Lots more maps all random.
2. capture standard. Lots more maps all random.
3. Scenario arenas. Protect the convoy/attack the space station examples.
5. Territory control under Holodeck simulation.
Allow foundry authors to make maps for private Q's
Those that are most popular get a place in general Q's.
This would take a lot of the work load of the devs.
Rewards.
PVP Rep system where all items sets and weapons are PVP oriented.
So in the end everyone will have the best gear for PVP.
Only usable in PVP.
The above gives the player much more choice as to what they want their PVP play to be.
It generates good rewards via the PVP rep system.
But If I could really have my way we would have a dedicated PVP shard.
But thats a whole different story.
Any way off to fly my Galor the cheesy-peas.
Have a blast all.
Thank you for proving one of my points far better than I ever could.
And so the slide begins.
Take another look at the thread title, and original post. It wasn't asking how to improve PvP, or what is wrong with PvP, it was why the PvE community don't PvP. So you see, your "contribution" isn't even in the right thread Gohan.
For me it was one encounter (I knew better than to even open my chat window from reading these forums) where I fired every special power I had (Kinda my thing) so that Voth rockets were firing at a ship caught in a grappler, along with draining energy with a Breen Siphon, and fireing my fore XI duel cannons, and XII Fleet Torpedo launcher. On top of this two other ships (My clones from the Malhelm device) were also firing at him/her. His/her hull dropped to almost 95% by the time s/he cut my Temporal Destroyer in half.
"I am a travelor of both time and space to be where I have been"
I speak as an early-launch veteran, lifetime subscriber, and generally nonstop supporter and contributor to this game, moneywise and timewise.
My first KDF character had not much to do except PVP and wait for PVP queues while shooting up NPCs in the numerous and dull "expanse" areas, with no other content at the time. PVP was fun back then. It was swarms of cloaked ships and "fedballs" waiting to see which of us would strike first. It could go either way, easily: one impatient KDF guy could get popped early, or the fedball would have a loose link and that guy would get picked off, leaving the others one ship down. It was fun and got me all the way to Brigadier General in those early days.
Now? The min-maxers, "e-sport" wannabes, the people that like to babble the word "skill" over and over again in every damn post, the toxic PVP community both in forum and in-game, all of it drove me away some time ago.
I trust a lot of us remember that "pvers are cowards" thread a short while back. It was symptomatic of the problem: toxic attitude, toxic community, refusal to see PVP rebalanced or improved because of a firm "I got mine, u r terribad scrubz lol" attitude. And they whine and wonder why we don't want to be caddies in their country club.
On a side note, I find it incredible how dishonest or deluded the posters were here a short while back that claimed that PVPers were somehow super mature, civil, and helpful and sportsmanlike. Broad brush, for sure, and patently absurd, considering the very same thread that insisted that was full of insults toward PVEers.
Why is it that the so called PvP community actually want the PvE community to PvP? Why do they feel that it's so important and special that we should? :cool:
As it is said in the often-tiny and often-shrinking "hardcore" games like Darkfall and Mortal Online, they want more sheep to slaughter. A huge number of them are gankers, and making others miserable and dominating them is what they want, not an actual effort-laden competition.
Because a game with PvP tacked on as an afterthought, as is the case here, won't be fixed by lowering the cost of fleet gear and making forced-random queues. PvP still won't have a point to it, and therefore will ultimately be irrelevant.
And that is, of course, without mentioning the absurd E-peen stroking, power creep and just general bad attitude of players that is inherent to PvP in general.
As I said, the main reason I don't PvP is simple; other players.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
More likely outcome: Star Citizen opens, STO PvPers announce "Now we'll see what's what," STO goes along its merry way without even noticing- thus being an example to small crowds of narrow-focused one-trick pony players that the majority can support the game just fine without catering to one little bunch of self-absorbed whiners.
You said it brilliantly.
These elitists certainly seem to think we need them around.
Thank you for proving one of my points far better than I ever could.
And so the slide begins.
Take another look at the thread title, and original post. It wasn't asking how to improve PvP, or what is wrong with PvP, it was why the PvE community don't PvP. So you see, your "contribution" isn't even in the right thread Gohan.
He's writing in a tight little bubble of self-affirming grandiosity. You'd have more luck shouting at a brick wall, and the brick wall might respond less predictably.
I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
In space it is hard to defend against the hordes of players abusing g-well, faw, and sensor spam. Worse yet a full premade team of players who do that.
On ground, the pvp players simply have more skill points and traits invested in ground. Worse yet, a 5 man team of players who are ground spec and still feel the need to exploit, run broken sci officers, and cloak gank players with half their skill points invested even though such extreme measures are not called for.
A lone player who enters without a full team of seasoned pvp players is guaranteed a demoralizing and severe loss to a premade team. The chances of encountering these teams are far too high due to the limited number of pvp participants, but it is also the fault of these teams and fleets for running the pve majority out of the Q with their barbaric play style.
Could it be that pvp in this game is not fun and only exists for the sake of existing or feeling hard core? What would it take to get you interested in pvp? I would like to add that players from the pvp minority are not welcome on this thread. It is not for you. This thread is to find the opinions of the casual, pve majority.
I used to play a game that was open world PVP, from moment you started, with only safe spots being towns. Game was fun up till you learned dying to a person 30 times your level right out the gate was no fun at all. This soured my taste for PVP. I think a game should be fun, and being killed for 3 hours straight (yes I respawned for 3 hours thinking I could out maneuver that level 30) I uninstalled the game. frustration is not fun for me.
So now to these games, I always think back to the beginning, my very first game. I do not like frustration so I avoid it. I also avoid ground combat as well as that too is very frustrating in this game.
Forgot to add, Community of that old game wasn't even bad by todays standards. Not sure what happened but the gaming communities of today are all worse then those old communities. Sure you had a few being rotten people but no where near the volumn of todays communities being overall *******s to eachother just to be *******s.
Comments
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Basically a billboard advertising whose e-peen is biggest and incentivizing "anything to climb up the boards" mentalities. Also an open door to "newbie trolling" where one makes a low-level alt to use for an elite-skilled player to go ROFLstomping through the newbie levels.
I can't make it any clearer than this: The problem is people, and until you can figure out how to change people you're urinating into a gale-force wind. (And the results of that are about as predictable as the weather in Death Valley.)
If we could separate the players it would be a start. SC2 has a ranking system in which wins add points and losses deduct points. The system places you in a player group with similar scores.
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Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
You hit the nail right on the head there! It's an accepted truth that the only person you can actually change is yourself.
My advice, give up on trying to get PvE players into PvP. We're just simply not interested. The only folks you can attract more are PvPers who just don't like the PvP in STO. You MIGHT get a few briefly into territorial PvP where there are good rewards to be had, but it will only last up until the point where 1 or 2 groups of PvP elitist *** hats take over every territory there is, and just sit on it. At which point, they'll go away again. Those who've been there, done that, wont even bother coming along in the first place as we know what's coming.
And can you tell me people don't game that system by deliberately winning/losing matches to move up/down the ranking scale?
But if you wanna whiz into that wind, go right ahead.
The only system that can work is one where everyone's on board and likes the way things are. Artificial methods to simulate that only result in giving trolls and griefers new ways to have fun.
Even fleet/guild PvP, you get fleets/guilds setting up alt fleets/guilds so that they can stomp on the lower ranking fleets/guilds too.
Starting to think aloishammer that you've played the same MMOs as I have.... lol
The conduct of the PVP community is an issue which is why separating them from the common player base is a solution.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
You can go into any PvE even an STF in an under-powered and unbalanced ship and come out like roses. Some do missions now with low level gear just to make them challenging. I typically look at various people's builds via Gateway usually looking for ways to improve mine and all I usually see is stupid builds where a person has mixed gear or consoles that don't support weapons, sensor consoles on as tac ship, etc. I can only imagine if I could see there skill setup or trait selection.
I like to keep my toons balanced for both space and ground combat. I think most PvPers probably have a toon for each and spec as much as then can for that type of play. This makes any balanced player build want to stay away.
Ultimately the problem lies with a very weak need for skill in the PvE arena which allows people to get away with lopsided skill builds, junk console builds, and poor skill point allocation. I have a toon who hasn't even allocated 1/3 of his skill points or selected traits or doffs and I blast my way through most of the lvl 50 PvE queue content out there. This game used to be far more challenging 2 years ago. I think folks since then really haven't had to focus on good quality builds (or learning how to make one) in PvE and so haven't found good balance to go into PvP... but the same can be said of a one sided PvP build.
If I PvP anymore... I like to do it in fleet or with friends in a private queue not in the public queues. I am by no means the best build out there but that to me is what makes this game so unique from others. There is so much depth to what you can do with you character that no two are alike.
Just to make the best setup you need to pick the right skills, traits, doffs, bridge crew, bridge skills, weapons, procs, consoles, devices, equipment sets, calculate all those variable numbers through some trial and error and others experience. I think this is a lot of what PvPers do that PvE players don't want to bother with.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
You'd think that would work. I've played MMOs though that have had 2 servers, a PvE one and a PvP one. You'd THINK the hard core PvPers would locate themselves on the PvP server, but nope, it's more fun for them to stick around on the PvE server and stomp on the players there...
The only plus with having a 2 server model is that you can nerf skills for the PvP crowd but buff them for the PvE players. You can do that though just by using a switch that nerfs or buffs by detecting if the player is in a PvE map or a PvP map.
No more of them than I've played, probably not. More like "Change the name, change the game, people remain the same."
But it's not a solution if it can't be accomplished, and until you figure out how to prevent "the undesirable" from making alts, sneaking through loopholes, and otherwise moving Heaven and Earth to keep on doing things their way then you're still tilting at windmills. Badly tilting at them, even, until you come up with a new idea- which this thread, and even your latest "This could be it" idea aren't.
For all of the reasons stated above and because I know that if I encounter a pre-made, I'm going to lose no matter what I do. So that means there is no point in trying, is there?
[/SIGPIC]
Ground combat in this game is appalling and I haven't played a PC shooter since half life 2 came out so probably wouldn't bother if it improved anyway.
So I think pvp should be more popular and criptic needs to make more maps for it especially the ground pvp
What would make the queues better is to have a queue where everyone chooses stock ships with abilities of their choosing and no consoles. Bit like Tribes 2 where you choose your load out and class so ship in this case.
Only Mk X gear will be used and that will be default.
But what ever reasonable suggestions we have on here or the last few years, Crptic has continued to shun PVP and continued with the power creep, broken mechanics and neglected PVP maps/ queues.
I would like to say more about PVP but what is the point since even the Devs have not acknowledged nor said anything solid since season 1. Alot of us are disillusioned with PVP atm and I suggest you take a look at Star Citizen because when that comes out, alot of us will be moving there and Cryptic/STO will be hurting.
I hope STO gets closed down eventually especially post Star Citizen and be an example to other MMO's that if you neglect the community, your wallets will also be neglected.
I for one have not bought anything from the C store for some time and refuse to do so until Crytpic improves PVP.
Sad really how Cryptic treats it's own PVP community and instead focuses on more costumes or Rubbish episodes they keep bringing back for a limited time.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
More likely outcome: Star Citizen opens, STO PvPers announce "Now we'll see what's what," STO goes along its merry way without even noticing- thus being an example to small crowds of narrow-focused one-trick pony players that the majority can support the game just fine without catering to one little bunch of self-absorbed whiners.
You forgot the part where they STILL post on here about how rubbish STO is.... Not a dig, just an observation based on past experience of countless MMO forums.
So what Part have I posted incorrect? Instead of trolling me have you actually tried PVP and understood how poor it is and how neglected and disilliusioned the whole community is? Have you tried testing the broken mechanics, the 5 man TIF, GPG, SS doffs?
I am not going to trash talk you as that is not what I do, but have a look at what you posted and see what you have added to this thread.
Do you really think Cryptic has so much money they don't need to care about the community? Have a think why they added a hanger to the Ar'kif for example or the proliferation of all these lcok box ships, doffs, why F2P only has a 10mil EC cap limiting you what you can buy on the exchange, forcing you to spend ZEN to upgrade or RL money to buy stuff.
Look at the Mechwarrior online community, the developers stuck two fingers up to the backers and peed alot of the community off since they were promised one thing and got something entirely different at launch. That game is now in decline with multiple releasing of packs and more goodies and p2w to help with their depleted banks.
Don't for a second be naive as to think PVP can be removed from any MMO. You might as well play a single player game if all you do is just episodes and just GG after a 50 min ISE
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Double shields and Hull points for vessels in PVP matches as standard.
Separate the Q's.
1. Random solo.
2. Random premade teams.
3. stock ships solo.
4. stock ships premade teams.
5. Challenge/teams.
6. Chalenge/One on One.
Stock ships refer to any in the game available to all through general play.
And equiped Via items available through general play including PVP rep system items.
Rare XI limit.
Challenge matches would show who has put down an open challenge to be accepted.
Modes.
1. Arena Standard. Lots more maps all random.
2. capture standard. Lots more maps all random.
3. Scenario arenas. Protect the convoy/attack the space station examples.
5. Territory control under Holodeck simulation.
Allow foundry authors to make maps for private Q's
Those that are most popular get a place in general Q's.
This would take a lot of the work load of the devs.
Rewards.
PVP Rep system where all items sets and weapons are PVP oriented.
So in the end everyone will have the best gear for PVP.
Only usable in PVP.
The above gives the player much more choice as to what they want their PVP play to be.
It generates good rewards via the PVP rep system.
But If I could really have my way we would have a dedicated PVP shard.
But thats a whole different story.
Any way off to fly my Galor the cheesy-peas.
Have a blast all.
And so the slide begins.
Take another look at the thread title, and original post. It wasn't asking how to improve PvP, or what is wrong with PvP, it was why the PvE community don't PvP. So you see, your "contribution" isn't even in the right thread Gohan.
My first KDF character had not much to do except PVP and wait for PVP queues while shooting up NPCs in the numerous and dull "expanse" areas, with no other content at the time. PVP was fun back then. It was swarms of cloaked ships and "fedballs" waiting to see which of us would strike first. It could go either way, easily: one impatient KDF guy could get popped early, or the fedball would have a loose link and that guy would get picked off, leaving the others one ship down. It was fun and got me all the way to Brigadier General in those early days.
Now? The min-maxers, "e-sport" wannabes, the people that like to babble the word "skill" over and over again in every damn post, the toxic PVP community both in forum and in-game, all of it drove me away some time ago.
I trust a lot of us remember that "pvers are cowards" thread a short while back. It was symptomatic of the problem: toxic attitude, toxic community, refusal to see PVP rebalanced or improved because of a firm "I got mine, u r terribad scrubz lol" attitude. And they whine and wonder why we don't want to be caddies in their country club.
In short, its the PVPers own damn fault.
As it is said in the often-tiny and often-shrinking "hardcore" games like Darkfall and Mortal Online, they want more sheep to slaughter. A huge number of them are gankers, and making others miserable and dominating them is what they want, not an actual effort-laden competition.
Because a game with PvP tacked on as an afterthought, as is the case here, won't be fixed by lowering the cost of fleet gear and making forced-random queues. PvP still won't have a point to it, and therefore will ultimately be irrelevant.
And that is, of course, without mentioning the absurd E-peen stroking, power creep and just general bad attitude of players that is inherent to PvP in general.
As I said, the main reason I don't PvP is simple; other players.
You said it brilliantly.
These elitists certainly seem to think we need them around.
He's writing in a tight little bubble of self-affirming grandiosity. You'd have more luck shouting at a brick wall, and the brick wall might respond less predictably.
I used to play a game that was open world PVP, from moment you started, with only safe spots being towns. Game was fun up till you learned dying to a person 30 times your level right out the gate was no fun at all. This soured my taste for PVP. I think a game should be fun, and being killed for 3 hours straight (yes I respawned for 3 hours thinking I could out maneuver that level 30) I uninstalled the game. frustration is not fun for me.
So now to these games, I always think back to the beginning, my very first game. I do not like frustration so I avoid it. I also avoid ground combat as well as that too is very frustrating in this game.
Forgot to add, Community of that old game wasn't even bad by todays standards. Not sure what happened but the gaming communities of today are all worse then those old communities. Sure you had a few being rotten people but no where near the volumn of todays communities being overall *******s to eachother just to be *******s.