General: The "Tour the Universe" event now has a 4-hour cooldown.
And what is an Stealth Nerf?
And what comes next time on Release? After one Fleetmarkround, we have 4 hours cooldown in this 3 hour long event ???????
why cryptic aimed at all such a cool down? subscribers and get this cd as well? or must the fly without restriction?
---> So you want constructive feedback: If I endows a new ship of my romulan Charakter for example, I do need a lot of CE, as many parts are unrealistically expensive in the exchange market. But I have not so much time to farm. Since I was very glad to have the tour the universe. So I could get with relatively little expenditure of time 3,000,000 CE. However, the short tour is quite challenging because you do here must be very focused, so that one does not make mistakes and thus lose time. Now if you only can make the complete tour per event once again, you get 350 000 CE, which is about 10%. That spoils the fun!
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General: The "Tour the Universe" event now has a 4-hour cooldown.
And what is an Stealth Nerf?
They added this only after this thread reached the 8th page, that's why it was called a stealth nerf. They didn't mentioned this change at either tribble or holodeck notes.
That's quite the paradox, how could you nerf nerf when the nerf is nerfed. But how would the nerf be nerfed when the nerf is nerfed? This allows the nerf not to be nerfed since the nerf is nerfed? But if the nerf isn't nerfed, it could still nerf nerfs. But as soon as the nerf is nerfed, the nerf power is lost. So paradoxally it the nerf nerf lost its nerf, while it's still nerfed, which cannot be because the nerf was unable to nerf.
This is kind of disappointing, even without Borg engines I was able to legitimately complete the entire run twice in an hour. It was a very handy source of EC. Make it a 29 minute cool down to close the exploit, that way players trying to play honestly don't get penalised.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
This is kind of disappointing, even without Borg engines I was able to legitimately complete the entire run twice in an hour. It was a very handy source of EC. Make it a 29 minute cool down to close the exploit, that way players trying to play honestly don't get penalised.
I think this is a reasonable compromise. Everytime I have done Tour I've tried to complete a full run.
I can complete a full run in about 9-10 mins. What good is a half hour cooldown going to do for me?
Are you asking me to slow down?
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Originally Posted by diotw
This is kind of disappointing, even without Borg engines I was able to legitimately complete the entire run twice in an hour. It was a very handy source of EC. Make it a 29 minute cool down to close the exploit, that way players trying to play honestly don't get penalised.
No, sry i dont mean to pick on you or anything, but even a 29 mins cooldown is a total nerf, why not just reward ppl upon full completion, WITHOUT ANY COOLDOWN? This is the only way to close the exploit, altho hardly could one name it an exploit. There wasnt any info in the quest text/mission giver that said to do it in a way, or even to complete it. And to be fair there are bigger exploits and bugs in-game then this.
Any cooldown, no matter 29 mins or 4 hours, will mean nothing for the real exploiters, wich by the way found allready a walkaround this. I am talking here about the ones that are hoarding toons, multi-accounting and such. Any cool down is non-existent if you just do the tour on alts aswell. Rest asure these exploiters will still get their +3m EC, just spreaded on 10-20 toons since they can just ready their toons before the tour then do the short version on 1 toon (wich gives 200k in 4 mins), then relog and do it on another and so on.
If Cryptic is forcing normal/casual players (and i mean here players with small number of characters) to hoard toons and multi-account then its cleary they encourage exploiting and its shows that they dont care about exploits and exploiters and this was just a move to make players buy keys and sell them for ECs so this is about greed again
Take your time, doffing, smell the flowers on the road side...
I doff along the way, and in space, the daisies do not smell so nice... :cool:
I'm the guy that uses unconventional builds, and don't fall to the normal. I also don't believe in "No-BS" TRIBBLE, it's in the game, it's ready to be used. Think Clint Eastwood in Heartbreak Ridge.
Hmmm, after mulling over the economics of the whole thing I wonder if this is a good idea or not...?
Okay, so there are basically three sources of EC's that the game provides:
1) Selling stuff to vendors or your replicator if you can't be bothered to get to a vendor.
2) Mission or doff assignment rewards.
3) Tour the Galaxy... technically a mission reward, but awarded incrementally. Also, one of the least "pew pew" aspects of STO, and great for doffing.
Plus) Selling stuff on the Exchange. Of course, the EC's that are floating about the playerbase have to come from somewhere, so Exchange prices rely on the first 3 to determine value.
So... if legitimate Tour the Galaxy runs were capable of completion 3-4 times an hour, and speed/cooldown buffs were added to allow us to complete it even faster, why exactly is there a 4 hour cooldown? If you really want folks doing the full run, why not reward at the end and call it good? Seriously, at this point you can remove it from the Event queue and just make it a Daily mission... give us more time to find bonus data samples or something.
But I digress... the basic game sources of EC's have been significantly decreased. Casual players wandering sector space no longer get rewarded on occasion, and farmers don't have their source either. This means that folks buying keys/fleet modules/etc and selling them will get lower returns, because folks have less to spend. Overall, prices will eventually balance out to the availability of EC's, the Exchange prices will drop, and everyone will end up with different amounts of EC's... that have the same value. That's the economics of the Exchange (in theory, we'll see in practice).
Of course, if you currently have EC's on hand, I would suggest holding them for a bit as their value should rise in proportion to their decreased availability. Which makes this sort of a reward to folks that were "exploiting" Tour the Galaxy, since if they hold onto their EC's for a bit they will have even more value by comparison... funny that.
But what about vendors? If the total economy will have decreased the available EC's, and the vendor prices remain the same... suddenly the Reputation system just got more expensive. The upcoming Reputation overhaul had better be darn good, lol, or you are going to have even more folks complaining about the cost of grinding for it.
Anyway, my constructive comment is simple... if you don't want something "exploited", fix the "exploit". If the "exploit" was folks doing 4 sectors, dropping the mission, doing 4 sectors... wouldn't it make sense to reward upon turning in the mission instead?
Alternatively, if you do want to implement an EC nerf and economic adjustment, at the very least don't waste Event time on what is basically a Daily.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
What can I say ... someone at Cryptic woke up and wanted to nerf something before breakfast ?
Or is it the "keep the poor poorer , and the rich richer" mentality ?
'Cause for those who have not figured out alternative means for EC , this WAS their BIG thing .
Actually, this does bring to mind a couple of questions about the methodology by which you develop the game structure, including adjustments. Seriously:
Who came up with the cooldown idea?
...then who agreed that it was a good idea?
...and who failed to notice that it was a 4 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event during implementation?
An Event which could be completed in full 3-4 times per hour?
Mostly what I was wondering was if there was a development team assigned the task of designing the underlying game structure, and what their process was, whether the coding folks got any input, etc. I know it's a bit of a digression; however, it does directly relate to the addition of the cooldown, in the manner it was added, so this seemed the place to ask.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I haven't tried it since the latest patch, but from what I keep hearing is that Cryptic "stealth-nerfed" the Tour the Universe/Galaxy event by putting it on a cooldown.
Assuming this is true, how does that even make any sense? It's a 1 hour event that comes up at a specific given time so already, I'm under time a restraint. What's next, a cooldown for Mirror Invasion!? I don't see what's so bad about making between 1-2 million EC in an hour.
Yes, though it is currently being discussed here. I find it sort of funny that it is a 4 hour cooldown, on a 1 hour Event, that could be legitimately completed in full 3-4 times an hour even before the new toys from LoR... but now can be completed once every 4 hours.
[Edit] Actually, now you can ignore the link, lol, as your thread got rolled into the one I linked
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
The damage to the economy is already done, removing sources of EC now isn't going to make it better, it's going to make it a lot worse. Do you know anything about economics?
Damage can be fixed, it's called a correction, and that is what will proceed to happen shortly.
If you think the answer to the over-issuance of currency is to keep the printing presses running full tilt, then maybe you should submit a resume to the federal reserve. You'd fit in really well with Ben Bernanke's crew.
But in the real world, people realize that there are continuing consequences to inflation. Without a correction (which will admittedly lead to a temporary time of necessarily turbulence) the damage will get worse and worse.
Bite the bullet. Reign in the EC supply now. Plus, Tour the Galaxy isn't exactly the most fun event in the game. Players will now be a little less motivated to drone their way through it slavishly.
Thank you, Cryptic- I just wish you would've been up front about the change in the first place.
And the notion that sellers will 'increase their prices to recoup their losses' is economically illiterate. With less EC flooding the economy, demand will drop temporarily, as people will have less currency to throw around. With demand dropping, if a seller raises their prices, they will drop demand for their product even more. Supply will increase, and items will sit on the shelves.
Ultimately, with fewer EC flooding the economy, sellers will be required to drop prices if they want to move their product. If they increase the price of their supply in the face of dropping demand, it will simply never sell.
This, and more moves like it, will lead to lower relative prices in the exchange, and a more stable EC market. The temporary turbulence is a just a much needed correction. If you want to thrive, hold off on making large purchases for the immediate future, sell off your current supply of exchange items asap, and invest in EC as much as you can. Prices are going to go down.
Lol do you guys really expect the economy to change now they nerfed tour the galaxy? People made BILLIONS with it, and continue to make money EVERY day. They'll have enough EC to buy whatever they want for the coming month/years, the only people who are suffering from this are new and casual players who didnt have the chance to farm tour the galaxy.
Players will now be a little less motivated to drone their way through it slavishly.
Yes, more motivated to afk the stfs and farm the foundry on a gazzillion toons. Cause these are apparently, morally fine and not at all dronish in any way.
On a different note you are right about the economy.
Lol do you guys really expect the economy to change now they nerfed tour the galaxy? People made BILLIONS with it, and continue to make money EVERY day. They'll have enough EC to buy whatever they want for the coming month/years, the only people who are suffering from this are new and casual players who didnt have the chance to farm tour the galaxy.
Next nerf: foundry mission farming.
So, if people made billions with it, then how is it not a major change to prevent them from making more billions? The market can not perpetually play ONLY to the super wealthy in the game. That supply will dry up quickly.
If inflation is a problem, more inflation is more of a problem. We need to go through the correction if we ever want to prevent the problem from getting worse.
It amazes me to simultaneously hear the argument that there aren't enough ways to get EC, while also arguing that stuff is too expensive on the exchange. Those problems are in DIRECT opposition to one and other. You can not solve one without exacerbating the other.
Yes, more motivated to afk the stfs and farm the foundry on a gazzillion toons. Cause these are apparently, morally fine and not at all dronish in any way.
On a different note you are right about the economy.
One problem at a time. Solving one problem does not mean other problems don't exist, or shouldn't be dealt with.
As for the 'droning' comment, I'm simply referring to the nature of the Tour the Universe mission, not the players engaging in it. It's boring. You don't do anything. You just fly in a series of strategically planned straight lines. It's very dronish play.
Let's put it this way folks, the 350k EC's that you now can only make because you are limited to 1 run every 4 hours can barely cover the EC costs for tier 0 fleet projects for my fleet. Now where am I going to get the EC's to cover tier 1+ and than we throw in the costs of reputation!!!!! yeahhhhh now anyone who is just starting in this game can forget ever getting anywhere quickly in anyone of these areas anytime soon. Sure foundry missions offer some EC's, but we know that keeps getting changed, you can farm dailies or mission rewards to get EC's, most likely won't be for long as they will probably change it as well. And they do all this and expect people to want to buy a LTS even though it's on sale.......Wow talk about a total uncaring POS MMO company.
I was enjoying the tour so I am really sad about this nerf
How about this for constructive feedback: so i dont get this Brandon, Cryptic wants us to spend time for our earnings, as it was stated with dilithium and other stuff like marks etc. Yet here it was done the opposite, hitting players that took their time to earn EC.
That EC earned was players time, even with the "exploit", 3m isnt that much considering the reputation projects take millions of EC, wich especially for new players is hard to do.
And on the same note, the exchange players / flipers seems are not to be bothered, making 3m or even more in like 10 mins. Never saw the slightlest intent to add a cooldown on reposting an item on exchange. So the ones that actually exploit the system, and exploit other players actually thru exchange are fine, yet the onest players who actually did SOMETHING to earn their EC get kicked really hard.
Really good treatment on the onest players...
And also as someone mentioned here, this will also hit the small fleets again, cuz some ppl were using the EC they were EARNING to build up their little starbases.
If 3m was too much, a solution to fix the "exploit" was by giving the rewards only at the end of the mission, simple as that.
I really hope the cooldown will be removed, but i doubt it
What this guy said... The way this change has been implemented won't hurt the real exploiters in game just the honest peeps that used this as a means to 'not' feel like complete paupers. Not everyone in STO, plays it to go around blowing the hell out of stuff and grinding on death, some prefer to explore and play the game in a different fashion. This provided a means by which many could effectively set targets and work towards them.. Yay, way to go!!
I'm sorry, but currency sinks never work in MMOs the way they are intended to. Sure, the price of low end items will be driven down but the high-end items like the lockbox ships and lobi ships won't drop. There's no benefit to sellers to lower prices even with less EC in the game. They'll just sit on those ships until some one produces the EC to meet their offer, which will just concentrate the EC in the richer portion of the player base while the poorer will just struggle more and more to get EC. I've seen this in every MMO I've played and this will be no different.
Let's put it this way folks, the 350k EC's that you now can only make because you are limited to 1 run every 4 hours can barely cover the EC costs for tier 0 fleet projects for my fleet. Now where am I going to get the EC's to cover tier 1+ and than we throw in the costs of reputation!!!!!
Just don't do it alone. You do realize that the fleet system is actually designed for a group of peple working together. Don#t expect to have it easy if you insist on doing it alone.
In case you are running a fleet with more players than yourself, try to motivate them to contribute.
All the solo actions are covered by the Reputations, which are perfectly doable with even casual play.
I'm sorry, but currency sinks never work in MMOs the way they are intended to. Sure, the price of low end items will be driven down but the high-end items like the lockbox ships and lobi ships won't drop. There's no benefit to sellers to lower prices even with less EC in the game. They'll just sit on those ships until some one produces the EC to meet their offer, which will just concentrate the EC in the richer portion of the player base while the poorer will just struggle more and more to get EC. I've seen this in every MMO I've played and this will be no different.
Comments
General: The "Tour the Universe" event now has a 4-hour cooldown.
And what is an Stealth Nerf?
And what comes next time on Release? After one Fleetmarkround, we have 4 hours cooldown in this 3 hour long event ???????
why cryptic aimed at all such a cool down? subscribers and get this cd as well? or must the fly without restriction?
---> So you want constructive feedback: If I endows a new ship of my romulan Charakter for example, I do need a lot of CE, as many parts are unrealistically expensive in the exchange market. But I have not so much time to farm. Since I was very glad to have the tour the universe. So I could get with relatively little expenditure of time 3,000,000 CE. However, the short tour is quite challenging because you do here must be very focused, so that one does not make mistakes and thus lose time. Now if you only can make the complete tour per event once again, you get 350 000 CE, which is about 10%. That spoils the fun!
MB: MSI MPG X570 GP 2.0
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Mem: Samsung DDR4 -2132 8GB (x2)
Graph: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
System: Micrsft. Windows 10 Pro v.21H2
They added this only after this thread reached the 8th page, that's why it was called a stealth nerf. They didn't mentioned this change at either tribble or holodeck notes.
I call it, the Stoutes paradox.
Yes, but Tour The Universe was one of the biggest and easiest. And it didn't break the economy... so why nerf it?
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
This character is why I don't play my Romulan any more. Tovan Khev is NOT my BFF! Get him off my bridge!
I think this is a reasonable compromise. Everytime I have done Tour I've tried to complete a full run.
But seriously... why penalize legitimate players? You modeswell just make a HALF HOUR EVENT at this point..
Original Name: -Gen-Alaris
Days Subscribed: 1211 (As of May 26, 2013)
Are you asking me to slow down?
Take your time, doffing, smell the flowers on the road side...
No, sry i dont mean to pick on you or anything, but even a 29 mins cooldown is a total nerf, why not just reward ppl upon full completion, WITHOUT ANY COOLDOWN? This is the only way to close the exploit, altho hardly could one name it an exploit. There wasnt any info in the quest text/mission giver that said to do it in a way, or even to complete it. And to be fair there are bigger exploits and bugs in-game then this.
Any cooldown, no matter 29 mins or 4 hours, will mean nothing for the real exploiters, wich by the way found allready a walkaround this. I am talking here about the ones that are hoarding toons, multi-accounting and such. Any cool down is non-existent if you just do the tour on alts aswell. Rest asure these exploiters will still get their +3m EC, just spreaded on 10-20 toons since they can just ready their toons before the tour then do the short version on 1 toon (wich gives 200k in 4 mins), then relog and do it on another and so on.
If Cryptic is forcing normal/casual players (and i mean here players with small number of characters) to hoard toons and multi-account then its cleary they encourage exploiting and its shows that they dont care about exploits and exploiters and this was just a move to make players buy keys and sell them for ECs so this is about greed again
I doff along the way, and in space, the daisies do not smell so nice... :cool:
Okay, so there are basically three sources of EC's that the game provides:
1) Selling stuff to vendors or your replicator if you can't be bothered to get to a vendor.
2) Mission or doff assignment rewards.
3) Tour the Galaxy... technically a mission reward, but awarded incrementally. Also, one of the least "pew pew" aspects of STO, and great for doffing.
Plus) Selling stuff on the Exchange. Of course, the EC's that are floating about the playerbase have to come from somewhere, so Exchange prices rely on the first 3 to determine value.
So... if legitimate Tour the Galaxy runs were capable of completion 3-4 times an hour, and speed/cooldown buffs were added to allow us to complete it even faster, why exactly is there a 4 hour cooldown? If you really want folks doing the full run, why not reward at the end and call it good? Seriously, at this point you can remove it from the Event queue and just make it a Daily mission... give us more time to find bonus data samples or something.
But I digress... the basic game sources of EC's have been significantly decreased. Casual players wandering sector space no longer get rewarded on occasion, and farmers don't have their source either. This means that folks buying keys/fleet modules/etc and selling them will get lower returns, because folks have less to spend. Overall, prices will eventually balance out to the availability of EC's, the Exchange prices will drop, and everyone will end up with different amounts of EC's... that have the same value. That's the economics of the Exchange (in theory, we'll see in practice).
Of course, if you currently have EC's on hand, I would suggest holding them for a bit as their value should rise in proportion to their decreased availability. Which makes this sort of a reward to folks that were "exploiting" Tour the Galaxy, since if they hold onto their EC's for a bit they will have even more value by comparison... funny that.
But what about vendors? If the total economy will have decreased the available EC's, and the vendor prices remain the same... suddenly the Reputation system just got more expensive. The upcoming Reputation overhaul had better be darn good, lol, or you are going to have even more folks complaining about the cost of grinding for it.
Anyway, my constructive comment is simple... if you don't want something "exploited", fix the "exploit". If the "exploit" was folks doing 4 sectors, dropping the mission, doing 4 sectors... wouldn't it make sense to reward upon turning in the mission instead?
Alternatively, if you do want to implement an EC nerf and economic adjustment, at the very least don't waste Event time on what is basically a Daily.
Fixed that for ya . :P
What can I say ... someone at Cryptic woke up and wanted to nerf something before breakfast ?
Or is it the "keep the poor poorer , and the rich richer" mentality ?
'Cause for those who have not figured out alternative means for EC , this WAS their BIG thing .
Who came up with the cooldown idea?
...then who agreed that it was a good idea?
...and who failed to notice that it was a 4 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event during implementation?
An Event which could be completed in full 3-4 times per hour?
Mostly what I was wondering was if there was a development team assigned the task of designing the underlying game structure, and what their process was, whether the coding folks got any input, etc. I know it's a bit of a digression; however, it does directly relate to the addition of the cooldown, in the manner it was added, so this seemed the place to ask.
Assuming this is true, how does that even make any sense? It's a 1 hour event that comes up at a specific given time so already, I'm under time a restraint. What's next, a cooldown for Mirror Invasion!? I don't see what's so bad about making between 1-2 million EC in an hour.
[Edit] Actually, now you can ignore the link, lol, as your thread got rolled into the one I linked
Damage can be fixed, it's called a correction, and that is what will proceed to happen shortly.
If you think the answer to the over-issuance of currency is to keep the printing presses running full tilt, then maybe you should submit a resume to the federal reserve. You'd fit in really well with Ben Bernanke's crew.
But in the real world, people realize that there are continuing consequences to inflation. Without a correction (which will admittedly lead to a temporary time of necessarily turbulence) the damage will get worse and worse.
Bite the bullet. Reign in the EC supply now. Plus, Tour the Galaxy isn't exactly the most fun event in the game. Players will now be a little less motivated to drone their way through it slavishly.
Thank you, Cryptic- I just wish you would've been up front about the change in the first place.
Ultimately, with fewer EC flooding the economy, sellers will be required to drop prices if they want to move their product. If they increase the price of their supply in the face of dropping demand, it will simply never sell.
This, and more moves like it, will lead to lower relative prices in the exchange, and a more stable EC market. The temporary turbulence is a just a much needed correction. If you want to thrive, hold off on making large purchases for the immediate future, sell off your current supply of exchange items asap, and invest in EC as much as you can. Prices are going to go down.
Next nerf: foundry mission farming.
Yes, more motivated to afk the stfs and farm the foundry on a gazzillion toons. Cause these are apparently, morally fine and not at all dronish in any way.
On a different note you are right about the economy.
So, if people made billions with it, then how is it not a major change to prevent them from making more billions? The market can not perpetually play ONLY to the super wealthy in the game. That supply will dry up quickly.
If inflation is a problem, more inflation is more of a problem. We need to go through the correction if we ever want to prevent the problem from getting worse.
It amazes me to simultaneously hear the argument that there aren't enough ways to get EC, while also arguing that stuff is too expensive on the exchange. Those problems are in DIRECT opposition to one and other. You can not solve one without exacerbating the other.
One problem at a time. Solving one problem does not mean other problems don't exist, or shouldn't be dealt with.
As for the 'droning' comment, I'm simply referring to the nature of the Tour the Universe mission, not the players engaging in it. It's boring. You don't do anything. You just fly in a series of strategically planned straight lines. It's very dronish play.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well first-off it wasn't 1-2 mil an hour. From what I heard (never tried it myself) is was more like up to 3-4 mil an hour.
Apart from that I kinda agree. There are probably far more serious 'exploits', or call it loopholes if you want, around, that would need fixing.
Nerfing this particular EC faucet seems a bit arbitrary and inconsequent.
What this guy said... The way this change has been implemented won't hurt the real exploiters in game just the honest peeps that used this as a means to 'not' feel like complete paupers. Not everyone in STO, plays it to go around blowing the hell out of stuff and grinding on death, some prefer to explore and play the game in a different fashion. This provided a means by which many could effectively set targets and work towards them.. Yay, way to go!!
Just don't do it alone. You do realize that the fleet system is actually designed for a group of peple working together. Don#t expect to have it easy if you insist on doing it alone.
In case you are running a fleet with more players than yourself, try to motivate them to contribute.
All the solo actions are covered by the Reputations, which are perfectly doable with even casual play.
qft
..........