The length of this thread is starting to remind me of the response to the "St. Valentine's Day Massacre" patch.
Cryptic has turned pi$$ing off customers into an art form.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
But it's bizarre, out of the 50 or so STO people I know, only 3 ran tour. I didn't realise the tour grinding community was so big :P
It's not, some of us just liked doing it now and again for fun. Part of that was seeing how many times you could finish it in an hour. Some folks are disappointed that you can only run it once, making it kind of pointless to actually race, since you have an hour to do something that only takes 8-20 minutes. That and some folks are just trolling for amusement. The attempt to close the "exploit" isn't the issue, the method is.
At least for me; I'm sure some folks are irked about the "exploit" being closed. Of course, maybe they'll price adjust space item base values to 25% of current? That would "fix" folks "farming" drops in the Foundry or Fleet Alert as well, since clearly the high prices of Space vs Ground items is an "exploit". Then everyone could be happy about the EC nerf :rolleyes:
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
You're supposed ot do the entire tour silly people. :P
I can run the entire tour in 15-17 minutes. I'm following the entire mission, and now I'm being penalized for setting up my build for speed so I can get multiple runs in during the event.
And if certain players hadn't been abusing the exploit you wouldn't be getting "penalized" now.
If you harbor any anger about the change made to the event direct it at those actually responsible for causing the change to be made.
Lol - those pesky players are at it again. Players are destroying this game!!!
Let's review the facts..
Players did not create Tour
Players did not change Tour
Players never once claimed there was an exploit
Players did not add a Cd to the event
Players did not forget to mention the stealth nerf in patch notes
Players did not refuse to explain changes any further
Players did not subsequently add another change to Tour that was explained with a confusing and grammatically incorrect patch note, had no effect on Tour, and refused to clarify both in Tribble and Holodeck notes.
Players do not continue to insist on a 4 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event.
Lol - those pesky players are at it again. Players are destroying this game!!!
Let's review the facts..
Players did not create Tour
Players did not change Tour
Players never once claimed there was an exploit
Players did not add a Cd to the event
Players did not forget to mention the stealth nerf in patch notes
Players did not refuse to explain changes any further
Players did not subsequently add another change to Tour that was explained with a confusing and grammatically incorrect patch note, had no effect on Tour, and refused to clarify both in Tribble and Holodeck notes.
Players do not continue to insist on a 4 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event.
Who is being penalized?
....Players
This sums the situation up very well in my opinion!
LOL. Are you really saying that economic prinicples of supply and demand don't apply to STO? It's all just based on greed? ROLF. If what you assert is true, then why don't we just give all new characters a starting base EC of 1 million EC, awarded at level 2. According to you, there is no economic consequence of that since economic principles don't apply to STO. Everyone will have enough EC to buy whatever they want, and everyone will have fun. And if 1 mill isn't enough, just create new toons, transfer the EC, delete and repeat. Then everyone can buy whatever lockbox ship there is.
LOL. Thanks for the laugh.
Hehe I do laugh too, since it seems you dont get it, or maybe you do but just trolling or covering it up. I was talking about the expensive items, the very rare ones that are not so easy to get, not the commons/average items. Its all about monopoly and controling the market and about Cause and Efect. Let me give you an example, a true one actually.
There are 15 purple mk XII antiproton console on sale on the exchange, wich only 10 are on comon sense price, the last 5 are 3, 5 or even 10 times more, at an unrealistic price, maybe to store them, or for trolling etc. A player comes and buys the first 10, then puts his own price, higher then they were originaly were. Since the rarity of the item, he only have to check once every 2-3 days if someone else undercuts him. If yes, he buys that one too. In a matter of weeks or a month he gets back his money and starts to profit big time. This is the Cause. And the consoles will sell, since ppl still need/want them, but now they have to grind more ECs to get them. Thus the tour was only an Efect, but not the Cause of an inflation.
This is one of the many things that are done on the exchange, and there are done with various items, like a few months ago i know this was done with the galors, someone bought all 80-90m range and reposted for 130m and so on. There are done with "smaller" things awell, just 2 days ago someone bought all 25k fleet bonus credit items on for 500k-700k, and reposted them for 1,2m range. Its actually easy to observe this if you see an increase in price but the number of items remain pretty much the same. And the exemples can go on, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Ohh and if you think ppl dont or cant do this then you are even more naive. The exploit console clickers that were doing that, back in the days when the Investigate Officer Report was taken out, had and still have 20-30 toons. If you consider just one thing, the NADORC doff mission, wich grats the strage alien artefact, and calculate the powered one at around 1,5-1,7m, you will see that they do earnings of 30-45m every 3 days or 60-90m every 6 days/a week, thus easily getting a bilion in around 10 weeks/3 months. And if you also think that the doffing system is about one and a half years old you do the math.
And another thing that makes me laugh, the afirmation i've seen here, about ppl eventually reducing their prices lol. Ohh really??? Well i guess someone forgot to tell those 400m JHAS exchange posters, huh? And on a side note, about that, did you even know someone had, at a time, 32 JHAS?
I know I am right when i say this game has turned into a Star Trade Online, or even worst, Star Scam Online. But by all means, keep preaching about supply and demand and about the Tour been the cause of EC inflation, in the end its true after all: Ignorance is Bliss.
But it's bizarre, out of the 50 or so STO people I know, only 3 ran tour. I didn't realise the tour grinding community was so big :P
Hmm, "tour grinding commuity"? Well i guess you are right, if you consider something done repetitively for getting a large amout of something, whatever is ECs, Dil or even Fleet Marks :P
And about the comunity been big, dunno how big that was, but ppl liked to do the tour, if you can take about how many there were exchanging Diplomatic Imunity and Raid Party near Wolf 359. On the good days you could see more then 10 ppl on several instances there, and that if you dont count the ones that did the tour without buffs and the KDF players too.
I myself was thinking about the tour as a Formula 1, space version. Sure its a close circuit but you could race ppl. I was racing at some time with a few ferengis in d'koras lol.
Also, for me at least, was another reason to travel thru sector space (if you think it was the ONLY mission that took place there, all others are in system or ground maps), wich i love to do that, equiped with a maco engine and with astrometics disabled. If you have enuf high graphics settings, when the asyncronous warp field kicks in, the warp like efect is greatly enhanced, more stars apear, giving a very nice immersive warp experience, wich i still think is one of the best efects in the game
Lol - those pesky players are at it again. Players are destroying this game!!!
Let's review the facts..
Players did not create Tour
Players did not change Tour
Players never once claimed there was an exploit
Players did not add a Cd to the event
Players did not forget to mention the stealth nerf in patch notes
Players did not refuse to explain changes any further
Players did not subsequently add another change to Tour that was explained with a confusing and grammatically incorrect patch note, had no effect on Tour, and refused to clarify both in Tribble and Holodeck notes.
Players do not continue to insist on a 4 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event.
Who is being penalized?
....Players
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
Hehe I do laugh too, since it seems you dont get it, or maybe you do but just trolling or covering it up. I was talking about the expensive items, the very rare ones that are not so easy to get, not the commons/average items. Its all about monopoly and controling the market and about Cause and Efect. Let me give you an example, a true one actually.
There are 15 purple mk XII antiproton console on sale on the exchange, wich only 10 are on comon sense price, the last 5 are 3, 5 or even 10 times more, at an unrealistic price, maybe to store them, or for trolling etc. A player comes and buys the first 10, then puts his own price, higher then they were originaly were. Since the rarity of the item, he only have to check once every 2-3 days if someone else undercuts him. If yes, he buys that one too. In a matter of weeks or a month he gets back his money and starts to profit big time. This is the Cause. And the consoles will sell, since ppl still need/want them, but now they have to grind more ECs to get them. Thus the tour was only an Efect, but not the Cause of an inflation.
This is one of the many things that are done on the exchange, and there are done with various items, like a few months ago i know this was done with the galors, someone bought all 80-90m range and reposted for 130m and so on. There are done with "smaller" things awell, just 2 days ago someone bought all 25k fleet bonus credit items on for 500k-700k, and reposted them for 1,2m range. Its actually easy to observe this if you see an increase in price but the number of items remain pretty much the same. And the exemples can go on, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Ohh and if you think ppl dont or cant do this then you are even more naive. The exploit console clickers that were doing that, back in the days when the Investigate Officer Report was taken out, had and still have 20-30 toons. If you consider just one thing, the NADORC doff mission, wich grats the strage alien artefact, and calculate the powered one at around 1,5-1,7m, you will see that they do earnings of 30-45m every 3 days or 60-90m every 6 days/a week, thus easily getting a bilion in around 10 weeks/3 months. And if you also think that the doffing system is about one and a half years old you do the math.
And another thing that makes me laugh, the afirmation i've seen here, about ppl eventually reducing their prices lol. Ohh really??? Well i guess someone forgot to tell those 400m JHAS exchange posters, huh? And on a side note, about that, did you even know someone had, at a time, 32 JHAS?
I know I am right when i say this game has turned into a Star Trade Online, or even worst, Star Scam Online. But by all means, keep preaching about supply and demand and about the Tour been the cause of EC inflation, in the end its true after all: Ignorance is Bliss.
"Tour the Galaxy: Some mission timers were set to start on completion of a mission rather on start, they are all set to start on completion of the mission."
what does it mean? its confusing, but maybe thats the point. it seems that its being further modified, but maybe they still dont want us to know exactly how until we see it live... but this time it's not a stealth fix/nerf since there's "something" in the notes.
...Wait, if the timer starts on completion, and the "exploit" the timer was supposed to "fix" was short-Touring... doesn't this mean we are now being encouraged to drop the mission before completion?
<yadda yadda>
...so we'll see if they seriously did that, lol
So an update: the cooldown still started at mission acquisition, rather than completion. This means that they were clever enough not to actually encourage short-Tours, but the Patch Notes are inaccurate. I just wish they were more clever about the "fix" rather than the enforcement thereof. :P
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
If a complete circuit could be done 3-4 times in full for over a year, then it could be inferred that this "x" is approximately 3-4 times the current reward for a complete circuit. By your logic, shouldn't the reward per region be increased 3-4 times?
Or is the "exploit" actually running a mission in full for the reward that Cryptic assigned?
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
If a complete circuit could be done 3-4 times in full for over a year, then it could be inferred that this "x" is approximately 3-4 times the current reward for a complete circuit. By your logic, shouldn't the reward per region be increased 3-4 times?
Or is the "exploit" actually running a mission in full for the reward that Cryptic assigned?
sighs.. bang head on desk. There could be multiple issues s people form exploiting with dropping and people being able to running it fully more than once.
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
It doesn't matter if you CAN run it fully more than once. that is completely irrelevant
maybe DEVS don't want you to
Maybe to them the mission is only supposed to generate 350k ec or whatever the amount you get from running it once. [/B]
Logically if that is a case then yes you make a timer to make sure people cannot run it more than once Even if they are able to . ...see how it all fits together
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
It doesn't matter if you CAN run it fully more than once. that is completely irrelevant
maybe DEVS don't want you to
Maybe to them the mission is only supposed to generate 350k ec or whatever the amount you get from running it once. Thats all they want you to have so that s why they put timer on it on it so you can only run it once .
Logically if that is a case then yes you make a timer to make sure people cannot run it more than once Even if they are able to . ...see how it all fits together
Sorry, I didn't address your other comments before, did I?
But, as far as that part above goes... thank you for keeping the discussion alive. Mostly the point we are making in our discontent with the timer is that the cooldown itself fundamentally altered the way the entire manner in which mission rewards were given. It is akin to the STF changes back with Season 7. What makes this different is that there has been less communication about exactly what the "exploit" was and why it was "fixed" in this particular manner. Sure, they don't have to answer us, but that doesn't mean it is a bad idea to do so.
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled.
Um, what? "Despite playing STO some players think they are STO players" would be a similar theory... I don't actually disagree with what you are trying to get at there, but remember that their sense of entitlement is based on having the option to repeat the mission ad nauseum, much like the Mirror Universe and Vault events. Much like your ability (and mine) to post on the forums, something I am sure we both appreciate.
The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
Likewise your bothering to reply to it. The "stealth rant" is feedback, something that assists companies in improving the way they provide their services. Feedback is a good thing, even if negative; it is market research you don't pay for.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
Actually, the patch notes were incorrect. Cooldown timers do not start on completion, they start on mission acquisition. I tested this in order to see if they were actually encouraging "exploits" by motivating players to drop the mission early.
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
I can't help but notice the soapbox you happen to be standing on at the moment...
Pot vs Kettle... FIGHT!
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
Actually a good point. While you are correct in this, however, remember that this is an MMO. Feedback from the community should be a factor in how the game evolves, especially with a free-to-play game, since the profit derived from the game does have some relation to the number of players and their willingness to spend.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Hehe I do laugh too, since it seems you dont get it, or maybe you do but just trolling or covering it up. I was talking about the expensive items, the very rare ones that are not so easy to get, not the commons/average items. Its all about monopoly and controling the market and about Cause and Efect. Let me give you an example, a true one actually.
There are 15 purple mk XII antiproton console on sale on the exchange, wich only 10 are on comon sense price, the last 5 are 3, 5 or even 10 times more, at an unrealistic price, maybe to store them, or for trolling etc. A player comes and buys the first 10, then puts his own price, higher then they were originaly were. Since the rarity of the item, he only have to check once every 2-3 days if someone else undercuts him. If yes, he buys that one too. In a matter of weeks or a month he gets back his money and starts to profit big time. This is the Cause. And the consoles will sell, since ppl still need/want them, but now they have to grind more ECs to get them. Thus the tour was only an Efect, but not the Cause of an inflation.
This is one of the many things that are done on the exchange, and there are done with various items, like a few months ago i know this was done with the galors, someone bought all 80-90m range and reposted for 130m and so on. There are done with "smaller" things awell, just 2 days ago someone bought all 25k fleet bonus credit items on for 500k-700k, and reposted them for 1,2m range. Its actually easy to observe this if you see an increase in price but the number of items remain pretty much the same. And the exemples can go on, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Ohh and if you think ppl dont or cant do this then you are even more naive. The exploit console clickers that were doing that, back in the days when the Investigate Officer Report was taken out, had and still have 20-30 toons. If you consider just one thing, the NADORC doff mission, wich grats the strage alien artefact, and calculate the powered one at around 1,5-1,7m, you will see that they do earnings of 30-45m every 3 days or 60-90m every 6 days/a week, thus easily getting a bilion in around 10 weeks/3 months. And if you also think that the doffing system is about one and a half years old you do the math.
And another thing that makes me laugh, the afirmation i've seen here, about ppl eventually reducing their prices lol. Ohh really??? Well i guess someone forgot to tell those 400m JHAS exchange posters, huh? And on a side note, about that, did you even know someone had, at a time, 32 JHAS?
I know I am right when i say this game has turned into a Star Trade Online, or even worst, Star Scam Online. But by all means, keep preaching about supply and demand and about the Tour been the cause of EC inflation, in the end its true after all: Ignorance is Bliss.
You seemed to have missed the big picture. What you say above about people buying up the goods, and reselling them for higher... of course it happens. I have done this myself. But your conclusion as to the cause and effect is completely wrong. All the buying/selling on the exchange is all a RESULT of the vast amount of ECs that are in the economy. None of the trading done on the exchange creates or destroys EC. The EC had to have existed ALREADY. Someone had to have grinded it first. Where do you think all the EC originally came from? It came from all the sources of EC generation since the game began.
So what would happen if EC generations stopped? Let's take that extreme example for the sake of argument, and take it to it's logical conclusion. Let's say, for example, that vendors start paying only 5% of face value, the tour paid out 10K EC total, and PVP and doff assignments no longer paid any EC. And let's say starbase commodity costs were kept the same. In this extreme example, the total EC in the economy would start to drop as the sinks outpaced the EC generators. Those that bought those 10 consoles in your example and relisted for higher would after some time find that their listings would go unsold. Why? Over time, people will just not have the EC to be able to buy it, no matter how badly they want it. He would have no choice but to the lower the price if he wants to sell it. Farming NADORC wont do any good either. The alien/powered artifacts are bought by other players, not by NPCs. The same will eventually happen to those wanting to sell the artifacts as deflation outpaces inflation.
EDIT: Or take a look at the economy when the game first launched. On day 1 (of headstart), there was essentially NO EC in the economy. Everyone started with 0. I remember one of the 'hot' items back then was the EPS console (back then, these consoles actually did decrease weapon power drain). If you got one through a drop, you wouldn't be able to sell it for much. You could list it for 10 mill, but it wouldn't sell for that price because it took a while for a sufficient amount of EC to get generated into the system to a point where one person would be able to afford it.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
{*} Who is "they", and did anything change recently that hasn't been done for the last 2 years? I doubt it.
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
{*} If so, then again Cryptic is at least 2 years late to the party.
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
{*} True. At least we didn't have a dev ranting about "We will ban your a**"
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
{*} Players didn't force anything. I doubt player behavior has changed any if at all over the last 2 years regarding Tour. Only changes of note would be new ships, engines, warp cores - all added by developers and used by players. No known exploits with any of these items. In fact, I personally view this as a nerf to the Vesta since my purpose for that purchase was Tour.
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
{*} I can and I will. I am a lifer (see title) - at least $200. I own every C-Store ship - over $1000. I own the Steamrunner - another purchase. I own the Red Matter Capacitor. Shall I continue?
I pay this company to provide a product, and in return, not only do I expect support, but it is guaranteed as a lifer. If I am to continue to spend money on this game, which I obviously do, Cryptic would do well to keep me informed and happy. I am sure other paying players expect the same.
Obligation - no, you are correct. Good business practice - definitely, and Cryptic is failing miserably.
Only nonpaying customers to this game try to belittle the paying customers that keep this game running.
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
{*} No where ever has Cryptic said that they expect players to only make x amount of ec in any amount of time. If that is expected, it should be clearly published - it is not. This argument is void.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
{*} The patch notes were confusing. Plain and simple. Cryptic refused to clarify - this is bad business.
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
{*} It makes a difference to a paying customer - me. You are wrong.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
{*} If devs only want you to do x, then it should be clearly stated. As Tour stood, x was clearly stated, hasn't changed in 2 years, and players have played within those limits for that time. Now the devs have vaguely stated x as we understood it was incorrect. I believe we do deserve a bit of an explanation.
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
I've never felt like doing a second run, so this nerf doesn't affect me.
Thank you for acknowledging that it is a nerf, and that it does affect other players. One thing I've noticed in some of the other posters is that they choose to ignore both of these details. Actually, could you add some feedback as to your gameplay style and EC earning methods, so that we can get a wider discussion of some of the alternatives for doing so?
Looking at from a practical perspective, since we all consume EC's for the Rep/Starbase projects, we are going to need alternatives. While the devs have on occasion responded to feedback (Season 7, STF fiasco), most times they prefer to maintain an "air of mystery" about their decision making processes. So, lets widen the scope here and get some input into what we can do instead of Tour. If you can come up with any noncombat methods of generating EC's, that would be even better, as Tour was one of the few noncombat missions worth doing. Thanks.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Thank you for acknowledging that it is a nerf, and that it does affect other players. One thing I've noticed in some of the other posters is that they choose to ignore both of these details. Actually, could you add some feedback as to your gameplay style and EC earning methods, so that we can get a wider discussion of some of the alternatives for doing so?
Don't assume that I'm supporting you. I think that if something gets abused it should get turned down to an acceptable level. People who run Tour the Universe will still have an EC and experience advantage over people who don't; the only difference now is no one is trying to cheat the system by adding and dropping it multiple times.
Don't assume that I'm supporting you. I think that if something gets abused it should get turned down to an acceptable level. People who run Tour the Universe will still have an EC and experience advantage over people who don't; the only difference now is no one is trying to cheat the system by adding and dropping it multiple times.
Oh, I don't support the dropping/short-Tour "exploit"; I would be just fine if they actually addressed that rather than nerfing the whole mission. Requiring full runs, so that you actually completed the mission, would be perfectly reasonable.
Think Mirror Universe cooldown, or a reduction in the base value of Space items so that Ground players aren't at a disadvantage... this would make lots of folks happy, right?
Anyway, what I was asking for was your (and anyone else's, really) alternatives for making a reasonable amount of EC's, especially any noncombat options; I contribute to my Fleet on a regular basis, and those projects can be rather costly. Also, since the devs remain silent, it would be good for us all to get some feedback on alternatives so this can be something more constructive.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Originally Posted by novablastmkg View Post
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
{*} Who is "they", and did anything change recently that hasn't been done for the last 2 years? I doubt it.
the illuminati.... players who do you think i am talking about . the time it took to fix it is irreleavent the devs decide what and when somthing get fixed
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
{*} If so, then again Cryptic is at least 2 years late to the party.
Irrelevant they want to leave something and not make it a priority to fix for 2 years then so be it if they jsut decide they want to change something on a whim so be it to thats their right.
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
{*} True. At least we didn't have a dev ranting about "We will ban your a**"
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
{*} Players didn't force anything. I doubt player behavior has changed any if at all over the last 2 years regarding Tour. Only changes of note would be new ships, engines, warp cores - all added by developers and used by players. No known exploits with any of these items. In fact, I personally view this as a nerf to the Vesta since my purpose for that purchase was Tour.
Well the FACT is cryptic has officially stated they made the change to *close an exploit* .
Its also fact that you can only run it once now . So if you do the math it looks like you're only supposed to get the EC from 1 complete run.
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
{*} I can and I will. I am a lifer (see title) - at least $200. I own every C-Store ship - over $1000. I own the Steamrunner - another purchase. I own the Red Matter Capacitor. Shall I continue?
No because your entire argument is irrelevant.. For the record I am also a LTS i like this title better.
Furthermore and have also bought additional c store stuff probably not as much as you but again how much either of us has spent is irrelevant.
Don't believe me look at my picture its a chimera only LTS get those I am also wearing the lifer combadge
I pay this company to provide a product, and in return, not only do I expect support, but it is guaranteed as a lifer. If I am to continue to spend money on this game, which I obviously do, Cryptic would do well to keep me informed and happy. I am sure other paying players expect the same.
OMG LOL . Yes are a customer and yes its good business practice to provide reasonable support and attempt to keep you customer happy but some people take that to the extreme.
The fact remains You are also only still a GUEST being a LTS or any type of paying customer does not put you on the board of directors or give you any say in what the company does or doesn't do.
Let me give you an example of what I mean.
I used to do phone customer service for a major company and I would get people with your attitude every time e had a price increase or a policy change and they would say the same thing . People who pulled the same sense of entitlement
i been a customer for the last 8 years and i wont stand for this I am not going to pay extra or I refuse that new policy.
You know what those people had such a snobby entitled attitude that I simply told those customers they had no choice in the matter and they did not write policy for the company.
Then they would go back to the I been a customer for 8 years and i had thank them for their business and remind them they were still a customer they could not make demands or opt out of price increases or policy changes .
Obligation - no, you are correct. Good business practice - definitely, and Cryptic is failing miserably.
From one paying customer to another i don't think they are failing at all.
Only nonpaying customers to this game try to belittle the paying customers that keep this game running.
Yes well now you have a LTS disputing your views
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
{*} No where ever has Cryptic said that they expect players to only make x amount of ec in any amount of time. If that is expected, it should be clearly published - it is not. This argument is void.
Your entire comment is again entitled. No they don't have to spell anything out. They do most of the t ime tell you what rewards you will be getting but again in a mission like the tour its not Obligatory. furthermore they have the right to change anything about this game at any time for any reason.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
{*} The patch notes were confusing. Plain and simple. Cryptic refused to clarify - this is bad business.
If you don't like the way they do business leave its that simple.
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
{*} It makes a difference to a paying customer - me. You are wrong.
I also paying customer there and i think you're wrong your entitle to your opinion but still there is no logical reason why that should matter.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
{*} If devs only want you to do x, then it should be clearly stated. As Tour stood, x was clearly stated, hasn't changed in 2 years, and players have played within those limits for that time. Now the devs have vaguely stated x as we understood it was incorrect. I believe we do deserve a bit of an explanation.
I think it is self explanatory they only want you making the amount of ec that is granted from 1 full complete run .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
I can't believe that the Dev's have NOT commented back yet seeing that's we're almost at 100 pages.
As stated on the other pages about paying members not having a say I'm going to chime in and say that I have a sub to the game I buy ships, items and zen and I think as a paying customer we should have been able to have a say about this nerf to the tour it's all our money that pays for the game so by right we should at least been giving a chance to oposse this befor the patch.
Also I see loads of people banging on about the exchange and over priced items the needing of the tour will not change people putting up MK XII consoles for 2mill+ and if you think it will your fooling your self.
I always have 40 items on the exchange at any giving time from prices of 10k to about 20mill or more if its a very rare ship (like a cell ship or tholin carrier) I try to price my items at a reasonable price so that other who don't have the EC can still buy what they need BUT if I have a console that is on the ultra rare list of things that people find super hard to find and if I don't need or want it I will sell it for over the price and please don't come back saying you would not do the same as you all know very well you would or have done in the passed.
Originally Posted by novablastmkg View Post
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
{*} Who is "they", and did anything change recently that hasn't been done for the last 2 years? I doubt it.
the illuminati.... players who do you think i am talking about . the time it took to fix it is irreleavent the devs decide what and when somthing get fixed
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
{*} If so, then again Cryptic is at least 2 years late to the party.
Irrelevant they want to leave something and not make it a priority to fix for 2 years then so be it if they jsut decide they want to change something on a whim so be it to thats their right.
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
{*} True. At least we didn't have a dev ranting about "We will ban your a**"
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
{*} Players didn't force anything. I doubt player behavior has changed any if at all over the last 2 years regarding Tour. Only changes of note would be new ships, engines, warp cores - all added by developers and used by players. No known exploits with any of these items. In fact, I personally view this as a nerf to the Vesta since my purpose for that purchase was Tour.
Well the FACT is cryptic has officially stated they made the change to *close an exploit* .
Its also fact that you can only run it once now . So if you do the math it looks like you're only supposed to get the EC from 1 complete run.
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
{*} I can and I will. I am a lifer (see title) - at least $200. I own every C-Store ship - over $1000. I own the Steamrunner - another purchase. I own the Red Matter Capacitor. Shall I continue?
No because your entire argument is irrelevant.. For the record I am also a LTS i like this title better.
Furthermore and have also bought additional c store stuff probably not as much as you but again how much either of us has spent is irrelevant.
Don't believe me look at my picture its a chimera only LTS get those I am also wearing the lifer combadge
I pay this company to provide a product, and in return, not only do I expect support, but it is guaranteed as a lifer. If I am to continue to spend money on this game, which I obviously do, Cryptic would do well to keep me informed and happy. I am sure other paying players expect the same.
OMG LOL . Yes are a customer and yes its good business practice to provide reasonable support and attempt to keep you customer happy but some people take that to the extreme.
The fact remains You are also only still a GUEST being a LTS or any type of paying customer does not put you on the board of directors or give you any say in what the company does or doesn't do.
Let me give you an example of what I mean.
I used to do phone customer service for a major company and I would get people with your attitude every time e had a price increase or a policy change and they would say the same thing . People who pulled the same sense of entitlement
i been a customer for the last 8 years and i wont stand for this I am not going to pay extra or I refuse that new policy.
You know what those people had such a snobby entitled attitude that I simply told those customers they had no choice in the matter and they did not write policy for the company.
Then they would go back to the I been a customer for 8 years and i had thank them for their business and remind them they were still a customer they could not make demands or opt out of price increases or policy changes .
Obligation - no, you are correct. Good business practice - definitely, and Cryptic is failing miserably.
From one paying customer to another i don't think they are failing at all.
Only nonpaying customers to this game try to belittle the paying customers that keep this game running.
Yes well now you have a LTS disputing your views
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
{*} No where ever has Cryptic said that they expect players to only make x amount of ec in any amount of time. If that is expected, it should be clearly published - it is not. This argument is void.
Your entire comment is again entitled. No they don't have to spell anything out. They do most of the t ime tell you what rewards you will be getting but again in a mission like the tour its not Obligatory. furthermore they have the right to change anything about this game at any time for any reason.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
{*} The patch notes were confusing. Plain and simple. Cryptic refused to clarify - this is bad business.
If you don't like the way they do business leave its that simple.
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
{*} It makes a difference to a paying customer - me. You are wrong.
I also paying customer there and i think you're wrong your entitle to your opinion but still there is no logical reason why that should matter.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
{*} If devs only want you to do x, then it should be clearly stated. As Tour stood, x was clearly stated, hasn't changed in 2 years, and players have played within those limits for that time. Now the devs have vaguely stated x as we understood it was incorrect. I believe we do deserve a bit of an explanation.
I think it is self explanatory they only want you making the amount of ec that is granted from 1 full complete run .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
if i fly the tour whith my Aventine from Vestabundle, whith [Hypereinject.-Warpcore Mk XI [Coi] [E->S] [ACap] [Trans]], fully scilled coil, diplomatic buffs (DI/RP), i can do one round whithin 15 minutes. That means I can only fly 4 times / hour.
350,000 EC per round, resulted 1,400,000 EC in one hour....
Is that much? Is that to many for one day?
The same i have send to the STO-support... for the answer i still waiting. :rolleyes:
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Comments
Cryptic has turned pi$$ing off customers into an art form.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
But it's bizarre, out of the 50 or so STO people I know, only 3 ran tour. I didn't realise the tour grinding community was so big :P
Kirk's Protege.
It's not, some of us just liked doing it now and again for fun. Part of that was seeing how many times you could finish it in an hour. Some folks are disappointed that you can only run it once, making it kind of pointless to actually race, since you have an hour to do something that only takes 8-20 minutes. That and some folks are just trolling for amusement. The attempt to close the "exploit" isn't the issue, the method is.
At least for me; I'm sure some folks are irked about the "exploit" being closed. Of course, maybe they'll price adjust space item base values to 25% of current? That would "fix" folks "farming" drops in the Foundry or Fleet Alert as well, since clearly the high prices of Space vs Ground items is an "exploit". Then everyone could be happy about the EC nerf :rolleyes:
I can run the entire tour in 15-17 minutes. I'm following the entire mission, and now I'm being penalized for setting up my build for speed so I can get multiple runs in during the event.
Lol - those pesky players are at it again. Players are destroying this game!!!
Let's review the facts..
Who is being penalized?
....Players
I think Cryptic has turned Not Playing Their Own Game into an art form .
All these "it looks good on paper" decisions stem from there .
Hey , let's take the Dill away from STF's ! (S.7)
This sums the situation up very well in my opinion!
Hehe I do laugh too, since it seems you dont get it, or maybe you do but just trolling or covering it up. I was talking about the expensive items, the very rare ones that are not so easy to get, not the commons/average items. Its all about monopoly and controling the market and about Cause and Efect. Let me give you an example, a true one actually.
There are 15 purple mk XII antiproton console on sale on the exchange, wich only 10 are on comon sense price, the last 5 are 3, 5 or even 10 times more, at an unrealistic price, maybe to store them, or for trolling etc. A player comes and buys the first 10, then puts his own price, higher then they were originaly were. Since the rarity of the item, he only have to check once every 2-3 days if someone else undercuts him. If yes, he buys that one too. In a matter of weeks or a month he gets back his money and starts to profit big time. This is the Cause. And the consoles will sell, since ppl still need/want them, but now they have to grind more ECs to get them. Thus the tour was only an Efect, but not the Cause of an inflation.
This is one of the many things that are done on the exchange, and there are done with various items, like a few months ago i know this was done with the galors, someone bought all 80-90m range and reposted for 130m and so on. There are done with "smaller" things awell, just 2 days ago someone bought all 25k fleet bonus credit items on for 500k-700k, and reposted them for 1,2m range. Its actually easy to observe this if you see an increase in price but the number of items remain pretty much the same. And the exemples can go on, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Ohh and if you think ppl dont or cant do this then you are even more naive. The exploit console clickers that were doing that, back in the days when the Investigate Officer Report was taken out, had and still have 20-30 toons. If you consider just one thing, the NADORC doff mission, wich grats the strage alien artefact, and calculate the powered one at around 1,5-1,7m, you will see that they do earnings of 30-45m every 3 days or 60-90m every 6 days/a week, thus easily getting a bilion in around 10 weeks/3 months. And if you also think that the doffing system is about one and a half years old you do the math.
And another thing that makes me laugh, the afirmation i've seen here, about ppl eventually reducing their prices lol. Ohh really??? Well i guess someone forgot to tell those 400m JHAS exchange posters, huh? And on a side note, about that, did you even know someone had, at a time, 32 JHAS?
I know I am right when i say this game has turned into a Star Trade Online, or even worst, Star Scam Online. But by all means, keep preaching about supply and demand and about the Tour been the cause of EC inflation, in the end its true after all: Ignorance is Bliss.
Hmm, "tour grinding commuity"? Well i guess you are right, if you consider something done repetitively for getting a large amout of something, whatever is ECs, Dil or even Fleet Marks :P
And about the comunity been big, dunno how big that was, but ppl liked to do the tour, if you can take about how many there were exchanging Diplomatic Imunity and Raid Party near Wolf 359. On the good days you could see more then 10 ppl on several instances there, and that if you dont count the ones that did the tour without buffs and the KDF players too.
I myself was thinking about the tour as a Formula 1, space version. Sure its a close circuit but you could race ppl. I was racing at some time with a few ferengis in d'koras lol.
Also, for me at least, was another reason to travel thru sector space (if you think it was the ONLY mission that took place there, all others are in system or ground maps), wich i love to do that, equiped with a maco engine and with astrometics disabled. If you have enuf high graphics settings, when the asyncronous warp field kicks in, the warp like efect is greatly enhanced, more stars apear, giving a very nice immersive warp experience, wich i still think is one of the best efects in the game
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
You've hit the nail right on the head.
So an update: the cooldown still started at mission acquisition, rather than completion. This means that they were clever enough not to actually encourage short-Tours, but the Patch Notes are inaccurate. I just wish they were more clever about the "fix" rather than the enforcement thereof. :P
If a complete circuit could be done 3-4 times in full for over a year, then it could be inferred that this "x" is approximately 3-4 times the current reward for a complete circuit. By your logic, shouldn't the reward per region be increased 3-4 times?
Or is the "exploit" actually running a mission in full for the reward that Cryptic assigned?
sighs.. bang head on desk. There could be multiple issues s people form exploiting with dropping and people being able to running it fully more than once.
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
It doesn't matter if you CAN run it fully more than once. that is completely irrelevant
maybe DEVS don't want you to
Maybe to them the mission is only supposed to generate 350k ec or whatever the amount you get from running it once. [/B]
Logically if that is a case then yes you make a timer to make sure people cannot run it more than once Even if they are able to . ...see how it all fits together
Sorry, I didn't address your other comments before, did I?
But, as far as that part above goes... thank you for keeping the discussion alive. Mostly the point we are making in our discontent with the timer is that the cooldown itself fundamentally altered the way the entire manner in which mission rewards were given. It is akin to the STF changes back with Season 7. What makes this different is that there has been less communication about exactly what the "exploit" was and why it was "fixed" in this particular manner. Sure, they don't have to answer us, but that doesn't mean it is a bad idea to do so.
Um, what? "Despite playing STO some players think they are STO players" would be a similar theory... I don't actually disagree with what you are trying to get at there, but remember that their sense of entitlement is based on having the option to repeat the mission ad nauseum, much like the Mirror Universe and Vault events. Much like your ability (and mine) to post on the forums, something I am sure we both appreciate.
Likewise your bothering to reply to it. The "stealth rant" is feedback, something that assists companies in improving the way they provide their services. Feedback is a good thing, even if negative; it is market research you don't pay for.
Actually, the patch notes were incorrect. Cooldown timers do not start on completion, they start on mission acquisition. I tested this in order to see if they were actually encouraging "exploits" by motivating players to drop the mission early.
I can't help but notice the soapbox you happen to be standing on at the moment...
Pot vs Kettle... FIGHT!
Actually a good point. While you are correct in this, however, remember that this is an MMO. Feedback from the community should be a factor in how the game evolves, especially with a free-to-play game, since the profit derived from the game does have some relation to the number of players and their willingness to spend.
please explain what you mean by "certain players hadn't been abusing the exploit"
what exploit?
which players are you on about?
what evidence do you have to support your claims?
So what would happen if EC generations stopped? Let's take that extreme example for the sake of argument, and take it to it's logical conclusion. Let's say, for example, that vendors start paying only 5% of face value, the tour paid out 10K EC total, and PVP and doff assignments no longer paid any EC. And let's say starbase commodity costs were kept the same. In this extreme example, the total EC in the economy would start to drop as the sinks outpaced the EC generators. Those that bought those 10 consoles in your example and relisted for higher would after some time find that their listings would go unsold. Why? Over time, people will just not have the EC to be able to buy it, no matter how badly they want it. He would have no choice but to the lower the price if he wants to sell it. Farming NADORC wont do any good either. The alien/powered artifacts are bought by other players, not by NPCs. The same will eventually happen to those wanting to sell the artifacts as deflation outpaces inflation.
EDIT: Or take a look at the economy when the game first launched. On day 1 (of headstart), there was essentially NO EC in the economy. Everyone started with 0. I remember one of the 'hot' items back then was the EPS console (back then, these consoles actually did decrease weapon power drain). If you got one through a drop, you wouldn't be able to sell it for much. You could list it for 10 mill, but it wouldn't sell for that price because it took a while for a sufficient amount of EC to get generated into the system to a point where one person would be able to afford it.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Comments to post added in red.
Thank you for acknowledging that it is a nerf, and that it does affect other players. One thing I've noticed in some of the other posters is that they choose to ignore both of these details. Actually, could you add some feedback as to your gameplay style and EC earning methods, so that we can get a wider discussion of some of the alternatives for doing so?
Looking at from a practical perspective, since we all consume EC's for the Rep/Starbase projects, we are going to need alternatives. While the devs have on occasion responded to feedback (Season 7, STF fiasco), most times they prefer to maintain an "air of mystery" about their decision making processes. So, lets widen the scope here and get some input into what we can do instead of Tour. If you can come up with any noncombat methods of generating EC's, that would be even better, as Tour was one of the few noncombat missions worth doing. Thanks.
Don't assume that I'm supporting you. I think that if something gets abused it should get turned down to an acceptable level. People who run Tour the Universe will still have an EC and experience advantage over people who don't; the only difference now is no one is trying to cheat the system by adding and dropping it multiple times.
Oh, I don't support the dropping/short-Tour "exploit"; I would be just fine if they actually addressed that rather than nerfing the whole mission. Requiring full runs, so that you actually completed the mission, would be perfectly reasonable.
Think Mirror Universe cooldown, or a reduction in the base value of Space items so that Ground players aren't at a disadvantage... this would make lots of folks happy, right?
Anyway, what I was asking for was your (and anyone else's, really) alternatives for making a reasonable amount of EC's, especially any noncombat options; I contribute to my Fleet on a regular basis, and those projects can be rather costly. Also, since the devs remain silent, it would be good for us all to get some feedback on alternatives so this can be something more constructive.
Originally Posted by novablastmkg View Post
* No they just found a way to exploit it so they made more than was intended
{*} Who is "they", and did anything change recently that hasn't been done for the last 2 years? I doubt it.
the illuminati.... players who do you think i am talking about . the time it took to fix it is irreleavent the devs decide what and when somthing get fixed
*Technically they did change the tour buy continually dropping it , running it more than once and anything else that cryptic did not feel was intended
{*} If so, then again Cryptic is at least 2 years late to the party.
Irrelevant they want to leave something and not make it a priority to fix for 2 years then so be it if they jsut decide they want to change something on a whim so be it to thats their right.
*Player do not determine what is and isn't an exploit that is up to the devs
{*} True. At least we didn't have a dev ranting about "We will ban your a**"
*The players forced the devs to add cool down because even if t hey were running full tours they were still making Y amount of EC when the devs only wanted them to make X amount of ec
{*} Players didn't force anything. I doubt player behavior has changed any if at all over the last 2 years regarding Tour. Only changes of note would be new ships, engines, warp cores - all added by developers and used by players. No known exploits with any of these items. In fact, I personally view this as a nerf to the Vesta since my purpose for that purchase was Tour.
Well the FACT is cryptic has officially stated they made the change to *close an exploit* .
Its also fact that you can only run it once now . So if you do the math it looks like you're only supposed to get the EC from 1 complete run.
*Despite the feeling of entitlement some player think they are entitled. The actual truth is the devs are under no obligation to explain warn or ask permission before making any changes to the game . What information they do give players is a courtesy not a requirement. You don't like it you can choose to stop playing. So the stealth rant is irrelevant
( Please don't try to pull the reply "well I pay money so now i run the company and have a right to tell them what they can and cant do".)
{*} I can and I will. I am a lifer (see title) - at least $200. I own every C-Store ship - over $1000. I own the Steamrunner - another purchase. I own the Red Matter Capacitor. Shall I continue?
No because your entire argument is irrelevant.. For the record I am also a LTS i like this title better.
Furthermore and have also bought additional c store stuff probably not as much as you but again how much either of us has spent is irrelevant.
Don't believe me look at my picture its a chimera only LTS get those I am also wearing the lifer combadge
I pay this company to provide a product, and in return, not only do I expect support, but it is guaranteed as a lifer. If I am to continue to spend money on this game, which I obviously do, Cryptic would do well to keep me informed and happy. I am sure other paying players expect the same.
OMG LOL . Yes are a customer and yes its good business practice to provide reasonable support and attempt to keep you customer happy but some people take that to the extreme.
The fact remains You are also only still a GUEST being a LTS or any type of paying customer does not put you on the board of directors or give you any say in what the company does or doesn't do.
Let me give you an example of what I mean.
I used to do phone customer service for a major company and I would get people with your attitude every time e had a price increase or a policy change and they would say the same thing . People who pulled the same sense of entitlement
i been a customer for the last 8 years and i wont stand for this I am not going to pay extra or I refuse that new policy.
You know what those people had such a snobby entitled attitude that I simply told those customers they had no choice in the matter and they did not write policy for the company.
Then they would go back to the I been a customer for 8 years and i had thank them for their business and remind them they were still a customer they could not make demands or opt out of price increases or policy changes .
Obligation - no, you are correct. Good business practice - definitely, and Cryptic is failing miserably.
From one paying customer to another i don't think they are failing at all.
Only nonpaying customers to this game try to belittle the paying customers that keep this game running.
Yes well now you have a LTS disputing your views
*It was an exploit cryptic only wanted you to make x an exploiters were making Y .
There is nothing more to be said.
{*} No where ever has Cryptic said that they expect players to only make x amount of ec in any amount of time. If that is expected, it should be clearly published - it is not. This argument is void.
Your entire comment is again entitled. No they don't have to spell anything out. They do most of the t ime tell you what rewards you will be getting but again in a mission like the tour its not Obligatory. furthermore they have the right to change anything about this game at any time for any reason.
*The patch notes were not that confusing since it is shown that some player did understand and tried to explain it to other players. Again player nitpicking and forgetting they are a guest here .
{*} The patch notes were confusing. Plain and simple. Cryptic refused to clarify - this is bad business.
If you don't like the way they do business leave its that simple.
*Player just wanted another reason to qq and stand on the soapbox to complain about something that makes absolutely no difference . If the devs wanted to put a 6 hour cooldown for a 1 hour event that is their right they don't have to justify it.
{*} It makes a difference to a paying customer - me. You are wrong.
I also paying customer there and i think you're wrong your entitle to your opinion but still there is no logical reason why that should matter.
Again and this goes for anything in the game Money , damage ect if Devs only want you to do x and you figure out a way to do Y even if its with in the current system the Devs have a a right to change it so you can only do x .
{*} If devs only want you to do x, then it should be clearly stated. As Tour stood, x was clearly stated, hasn't changed in 2 years, and players have played within those limits for that time. Now the devs have vaguely stated x as we understood it was incorrect. I believe we do deserve a bit of an explanation.
I think it is self explanatory they only want you making the amount of ec that is granted from 1 full complete run .
That is not a punishment that is simply closinging an exploit so you can only do x not y.
{*} Not even going to waste my time on this one.
Cant really dispute a fact can you,
As stated on the other pages about paying members not having a say I'm going to chime in and say that I have a sub to the game I buy ships, items and zen and I think as a paying customer we should have been able to have a say about this nerf to the tour it's all our money that pays for the game so by right we should at least been giving a chance to oposse this befor the patch.
Also I see loads of people banging on about the exchange and over priced items the needing of the tour will not change people putting up MK XII consoles for 2mill+ and if you think it will your fooling your self.
I always have 40 items on the exchange at any giving time from prices of 10k to about 20mill or more if its a very rare ship (like a cell ship or tholin carrier) I try to price my items at a reasonable price so that other who don't have the EC can still buy what they need BUT if I have a console that is on the ultra rare list of things that people find super hard to find and if I don't need or want it I will sell it for over the price and please don't come back saying you would not do the same as you all know very well you would or have done in the passed.
[/SIGPIC]
Get over it.
if i fly the tour whith my Aventine from Vestabundle, whith [Hypereinject.-Warpcore Mk XI [Coi] [E->S] [ACap] [Trans]], fully scilled coil, diplomatic buffs (DI/RP), i can do one round whithin 15 minutes. That means I can only fly 4 times / hour.
350,000 EC per round, resulted 1,400,000 EC in one hour....
Is that much? Is that to many for one day?
The same i have send to the STO-support... for the answer i still waiting. :rolleyes:
MB: MSI MPG X570 GP 2.0
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
Mem: Samsung DDR4 -2132 8GB (x2)
Graph: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
System: Micrsft. Windows 10 Pro v.21H2
Does it matter at this point? It's all about who's righter, and who's the bigger dumber troll.
post deleted i have to stop feeding ....
Kadir beneath Mo Moteh
shaka when the walls fell