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Tour the Universe cooldown change -- 4 hour cooldown added *now in patch notes*

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  • knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    thecosmic1 wrote: »
    In general prices will decrease.

    When the billionaires, like me, don't have a steady stream to replenish the 200+ million EC we paid for a Lockbox ship we will be unable to buy a a series of them. 3 months from now when I've spent 600 million EC on 2 new Lockbox ships and I've only been able to replenish 50 million EC I'm not going to be buying that third Lockbox ship as quickly, and that's going to drive the prices down.

    And it's not just Lockbox ships. It's everything currently on the Exchange being sold for a million EC or more because people know it's only an hours work to earn those EC.

    The deflation isn't going to happen over night, but then the inflation didn't happen over night either. But it's clear that steps do need to be taken. The longer it's delayed the greater the inflation gets and the longer it's going to take to recover. Steps have now been taken.

    However, the average income of casual gamer should go down, though, so doesn't that somewhat offset the effect of deflation on exchange prices?
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
  • mewmaster101mewmaster101 Member Posts: 1,239 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    However, the average income of casual gamer should go down, though, so doesn't that somewhat offset the effect of deflation on exchange prices?

    not every player did the tour in the first place.
  • latinumbarlatinumbar Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    Ok, I do agree with you that there was massive inflation, but what now? The people that are so far ahead will continue to remain far ahead; nothing will change. Do you think prices will fall on the exchange? If anything, the hottest items like lock box ships should go up in price because people have less EC on average to purchase them.

    That's not how economics work. The cause of inflation is the ever increasing supply of EC in the system. It may seem like you have to farm more EC to keep up with the inflation, but in actuality, it's the other way around. It is the farming that is causing the inflation. The dictionary definition of inflation is an increase in the supply of money.

    To illustrate, let's look at a simplified fictitious example of an auction. Let's say you are there, and have $200 to bid on one of the items. Now, what happens if I come and increase the supply of money in the room. I walk around and give out $100 to everyone in the room, including you. What do you think will happen to the sale price of the item? You, surely would then bid $300 for the item if necessary. Increase in money supply leads to price inflation.

    Now this change to the tour may not necessarily decrease prices on the exchange. Why not? Because it does not actually decrease the supply of EC. It merely slows the increase. To actually see prices decrease on the exchange, the EC 'sinks' would have to be greater than the EC generators. Since I am not a dev, I am not privy to that sort of game data. It is possible that the sinks may now be greater than the EC generators now, but only the devs would know.
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    However, the average income of casual gamer should go down, though, so doesn't that somewhat offset the effect of deflation on exchange prices?
    If I have less EC income, I cannot afford to pay the same price for something as I did before my income dropped. If all of us had less income, all of us would be less able to afford the high prices on the exchange. Thus, a seller will have to lower the asking price if he wants it to sell.
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    not every player did the tour in the first place.

    In theory, if you are looking at the in-game economy:

    Exchange prices will eventually balance out with EC availability, which means that the total value of our EC's will remain comparable when purchasing from the Exchange. Tour doffers will still see a major reduction in their ability to generate EC's; Exchange sellers will see a lesser decrease as their buyers will have less EC's to give them. "Farmers" will retain their income stream, and therefore have increased relative buying power on the Exchange, though only to the extent that they are selling "vendor trash" rather than posting at the newer Exchange rates.

    -and-

    Vendor prices remain the same for Commodities and Consumables. With a reduction in available EC's from Tour, and by extension the Exchange, the relative cost for purchasing from vendors will increase. Since vendors will be consuming an increased proportion of your total income, this will increase the cost of Reputation and Fleet projects.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • neoakiraiineoakiraii Member Posts: 7,468 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    In theory, if you are looking at the in-game economy:

    Exchange prices will eventually balance out with EC availability, which means that the total value of our EC's will remain comparable when purchasing from the Exchange. Tour doffers will still see a major reduction in their ability to generate EC's; Exchange sellers will see a lesser decrease as their buyers will have less EC's to give them. "Farmers" will retain their income stream, and therefore have increased relative buying power on the Exchange, though only to the extent that they are selling "vendor trash" rather than posting at the newer Exchange rates.

    -and-

    Vendor prices remain the same for Commodities and Consumables. With a reduction in available EC's from Tour, and by extension the Exchange, the relative cost for purchasing from vendors will increase. Since vendors will be consuming an increased proportion of your total income, this will increase the cost of Reputation and Fleet projects.

    if someone never did tour, how would it affect them?
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  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    neoakiraii wrote: »
    if someone never did tour, how would it affect them?

    Did that someone never sell an item on the Exchange to someone that had done Tour? As I mentioned above, if folks that were doing Tour no longer have access to EC's at the same rate, then folks selling to them will not get those EC's earned by doing Tour.

    In the broader sense:
    Exchange prices should decrease in proportion to the decrease in available EC's in the economy; Reputation and Fleet projects fueled by vendors will see a comparative increase in cost as EC-sinks due to static pricing.

    More specifically:
    a) The relative buying power of someone that makes EC's primarily off of the Exchange will remain comparable, though relative cost of vendor items will increase by comparison.
    b) The relative buying power of someone that makes EC's primarily off of Tour will see their buying power dramatically decrease. Exchange prices will decrease to a lesser degree than the decreased EC flow as there are other buyers using "farming" to generate EC's, and vendor prices will not drop at all.
    c) The relative buying power of "farmers" that use selling "vendor trash" as their primary source of EC's will increase, as Exchange prices will decrease while vendor prices remain identical. Of course, this is until "farming" becomes flagged as an "exploit".

    In any case, the main issue here is that the devs fixed the "exploit" of a short Tour by killing the event instead. Sort of like saying that using Beam Overload after punching through shields with Rapid Fire was an "exploit" and then adding a 2 minute cooldown to Beam Overload any time you used a Tactical Bridge Officer ability.
    Ym9x9Ji.png
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    I do not like Geko ether.
    iconians wrote: »
    With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.​​
  • xparr15xparr15 Member Posts: 283 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    topset wrote: »

    They need to do this, and they also need to add more EC sinks.

    Too late. Any feasible ec sink would either be negligible to rich players or unachievable to new players. Theres no easy way to fix inflation without giving the average players the really short end of the stick.

    EDIT: Any new ec sink. The ones in place already help.
  • el1mel1m Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    xparr15 wrote: »
    Too late. Any feasible ec sink would either be negligible to rich players or unachievable to new players. Theres no easy way to fix inflation without giving the average players the really short end of the stick.

    EC Sinks do exist though. Buying items for star-base projects even from a tuffli can cost millions of EC. There is EC paid for transwarp for the lazy, I spend 18k on transwarp every time I go to do my rich dilithium claim unless it happens to be within the event.

    Personal reputation costs EC to complete, not quite as much as Starbase reputation but it can still make a dent
  • eddymeatmceddymeatmc Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm not one of the best players in the game, a student so spare cash is not there to blow on new ships and the like but I made sure what I had could do Tour properly 3 times in the hour and with not getting much time to play, I always tried to come on during that event, so it's a great shame to see it altered.
    I'd agree with one other post, change the cool-down to 15min to allow people time to do it properly.
    I'll still be playing though, no other star trek game like it :)
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Have we received any explanation as to why they cant simply force you to complete it in its' entirety before handing?

    Sure, they could stop giving rewards for completing each sector block and wait until you turn in the mission. But that would cause problems for people who don't start the event on time and can't finish.
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  • malkarrismalkarris Member Posts: 797 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    bluegeek wrote: »
    Sure, they could stop giving rewards for completing each sector block and wait until you turn in the mission. But that would cause problems for people who don't start the event on time and can't finish.

    This isn't a problem for any other mission on the calendar. Since they got rid of the point to do this fast, why not drop the race period and make it like any other mission? You have to start it during the event, but can finish it afterwards.

    Mind,I don't like that idea, but if they keep the nerf, might as well go whole hog.
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  • voicesdarkvoicesdark Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Frak the four sector "strategy/exploit" bs for a minute. What about those that could legitimately run the Tour 2 or 3 times an hour. You're running the whole tour like intended so why should those people be penalized as well. Of course this is all based on the alleged intent of "closing an exploit"
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  • xblazex#7666 xblazex Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    voicesdark wrote: »
    Frak the four sector "strategy/exploit" bs for a minute. What about those that could legitimately run the Tour 2 or 3 times an hour. You're running the whole tour like intended so why should those people be penalized as well. Of course this is all based on the alleged intent of "closing an exploit"

    its possible that could also have been something that they were trying fix as a well.

    Perhaps the intent was that it only be run once . Possible reasons for that would be

    1 it makes sense since they pay per sector .

    2 they may only want people to be able to make X EC total in that event .

    3 It also falls in line with other events take the mining event you can only do that once they may be trying to do the same thing with the t tour .
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I don't expect any major price changes .
    Lockbox ships will continue to be 100 Mil a pop .
    It has been that way , it will continue to be that way .
    Only the way to get the EC needed for that coveted item will change , and Cryptic may make a few bucks as a result .
    Those who say that prices will drop delude themselves . :o

    My 2 cents .
  • sneyepersneyeper Member Posts: 217 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    eddymeatmc wrote: »
    I'm not one of the best players in the game, a student so spare cash is not there to blow on new ships and the like but I made sure what I had could do Tour properly 3 times in the hour and with not getting much time to play, I always tried to come on during that event, so it's a great shame to see it altered.
    I'd agree with one other post, change the cool-down to 15min to allow people time to do it properly.
    I'll still be playing though, no other star trek game like it :)

    I will say it yet again - I can do a full tour in 8 minutes, so a 15 minute cd is no good. As I explained earlier in the thread a 5 minute cd is all that is needed to stop the exploit and not punish legitimate runners.
  • xblazex#7666 xblazex Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sneyeper wrote: »
    I will say it yet again - I can do a full tour in 8 minutes, so a 15 minute cd is no good. As I explained earlier in the thread a 5 minute cd is all that is needed to stop the exploit and not punish legitimate runners.

    Basically you are making the same point as the above poster soo this is also something to consider
    voicesdark wrote: »
    Frak the four sector "strategy/exploit" bs for a minute. What about those that could legitimately run the Tour 2 or 3 times an hour. You're running the whole tour like intended so why should those people be penalized as well. Of course this is all based on the alleged intent of "closing an exploit"
    its possible that could also have been something that they were trying fix as a well.

    Perhaps the intent was that it only be run once . Possible reasons for that would be

    1 it makes sense since they pay per sector .

    2 they may only want people to be able to make X EC total in that event .

    3 It also falls in line with other events take the mining event you can only do that once they may be trying to do the same thing with the t tour .
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm curious as to how They came up with the Four Hour CD...

    It only lasts and Hour and doesn't come up but once about every Fifteen Hours...

    :confused:
    STO Member since February 2009.
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  • xblazex#7666 xblazex Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    daveyny wrote: »
    I'm curious as to how They came up with the Four Hour CD...

    It only lasts and Hour and doesn't come up but once about every Fifteen Hours...

    :confused:

    I am more curious why are people fixating on this ?????

    .... it makes no difference if they made it a one hour cooldown or 4 hour cool down as you said the even only comes up every 15 hours
  • daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am more curious why are people fixating on this ?????

    .... it makes no difference if they made it a one hour cooldown or 4 hour cool down as you said the even only comes up every 15 hours

    I have a Fixation Disease, OK.

    Sorry if my curiosity about Their reasoning offends you...

    Suk it up. :P


    Be nice if They added a Second Event Schedule (with a different order) to run alongside the current one...

    That way there would be more options for players to take part in different events throughout the multiple player-base time-zones.

    (it would also give reason for there to be longer CDs for 'problem' events.)

    :cool:
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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  • epsilons232epsilons232 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    daveyny wrote: »
    I'm curious as to how They came up with the Four Hour CD...

    It only lasts and Hour and doesn't come up but once about every Fifteen Hours...

    :confused:

    Yep, another sign that this is a mind TRIBBLE from some dev and not a well though through and analysed idea.
  • xblazex#7666 xblazex Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    daveyny wrote: »
    I have a Fixation Disease, OK.

    Sorry if my curiosity about Their reasoning offends you...

    Suk it up. :P



    :cool:

    well ok then :P .. sorry if my curiosity about people's curiosity about Their reasoning offends you... Suk it up as well :P lol
  • crusader2007crusader2007 Member Posts: 1,883 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    eddymeatmc wrote: »
    I'm not one of the best players in the game, a student so spare cash is not there to blow on new ships and the like but I made sure what I had could do Tour properly 3 times in the hour and with not getting much time to play, I always tried to come on during that event, so it's a great shame to see it altered.
    I'd agree with one other post, change the cool-down to 15min to allow people time to do it properly.
    I'll still be playing though, no other star trek game like it :)

    I agree...why punish the whole playerbase by a 4hr cool down. Can the Devs agree to meet us half way and entertain either a 15 min cooldown from finish or a countdown timer for the event (similar to Risa-15 mins each)? Most of us are able to do 4 complete runs in 1hr without using dropping any zones (so called exploits)

    Another suggestion (probably the most sensible) would be to only award mission reward after completing ALL zones and disable the ability to skip zones or don't reward if someone skips a zone. This is so much better than adding an all across 4hr cooldown cycle which makes no sense still
    DUwNP.gif

  • xblazex#7666 xblazex Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I agree...why punish the whole playerbase by a 4hr cool down. Can the Devs agree to meet us half way and entertain either a 15 min cooldown from finish or a countdown timer for the event (similar to Risa-15 mins each)? Most of us are able to do 4 complete runs in 1hr without using dropping any zones (so called exploits)

    Another suggestion (probably the most sensible) would be to only award mission reward after completing ALL zones and disable the ability to skip zones or don't reward if someone skips a zone. This is so much better than adding an all across 4hr cooldown cycle which makes no sense still

    First of all i dont feel i am being punished i support the patch and closing exploits and there have been other peopel in this thread that support the patch to so they are not "punishing the whole player base"

    Secondly they are closing an exploit IMO that does not mean they are "punishing" people

    As for your compromise

    [sarcasm] ok guys we have herd you and we are not only going to revert it but the reward is going to be 100 mil a sector now.

    or better yet we are announcing that once a day when you log on you will be granted the max amount of EC as a login bonus [/sarcasm]



    Thirdly Yes i know i am repeating my self but so is everyone else soo... *shrugs"

    Basically you are making the same point as the another poster soo this is also something to consider

    sneyeper wrote: »
    I will say it yet again - I can do a full tour in 8 minutes, so a 15 minute cd is no good. As I explained earlier in the thread a 5 minute cd is all that is needed to stop the exploit and not punish legitimate runners.

    Basically you are making the same point as the above poster soo this is also something to consider
    voicesdark wrote: »
    Frak the four sector "strategy/exploit" bs for a minute. What about those that could legitimately run the Tour 2 or 3 times an hour. You're running the whole tour like intended so why should those people be penalized as well. Of course this is all based on the alleged intent of "closing an exploit"
    its possible that could also have been something that they were trying fix as a well.

    Perhaps the intent was that it only be run once . Possible reasons for that would be

    1 it makes sense since they pay per sector .

    2 they may only want people to be able to make X EC total in that event .

    3 It also falls in line with other events take the mining event you can only do that once they may be trying to do the same thing with the t tour .
  • eddymeatmceddymeatmc Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    sneyeper wrote: »
    I will say it yet again - I can do a full tour in 8 minutes, so a 15 minute cd is no good. As I explained earlier in the thread a 5 minute cd is all that is needed to stop the exploit and not punish legitimate runners.


    Wasn't aware it could be done that fast!
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I am more curious why are people fixating on this ?????

    .... it makes no difference if they made it a one hour cooldown or 4 hour cool down as you said the even only comes up every 15 hours

    The only reason a 4 hour cooldown seems to make sense is if they're planning on changing the event so you can run it whenever you want but limit how many times a day you can actually run it.

    Since this doesn't seem likely, why 4 hours? Why not 1, or 12? Even if they did plan on making the event run more often, a 4 hour cooldown is probably shorter than they'd want.

    As it stands now, once the event is over the mission is automatically dropped and you can't complete it anyway. So anything that limits you to running the Tour once during the event, or about once per day, is all that's necessary.

    It's just a little perplexing that they would choose a 4 hour cooldown, that's all. Leaves people wondering if there's something else behind that.
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  • thecosmic1thecosmic1 Member Posts: 9,365 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    bluegeek wrote: »
    The only reason a 4 hour cooldown seems to make sense is if they're planning on changing the event so you can run it whenever you want but limit how many times a day you can actually run it.

    Since this doesn't seem likely, why 4 hours? Why not 1, or 12? Even if they did plan on making the event run more often, a 4 hour cooldown is probably shorter than they'd want.

    As it stands now, once the event is over the mission is automatically dropped and you can't complete it anyway. So anything that limits you to running the Tour once during the event, or about once per day, is all that's necessary.

    It's just a little perplexing that they would choose a 4 hour cooldown, that's all. Leaves people wondering if there's something else behind that.
    If I were to hazard a wild guess it's probably because when the event was first programmed someone put the tag for the 4-hour cooldown into the programming - we don't know how many different connotations Events went through before they decided on what went life. It probably came down to an issue of simply activating the existing tag rather then needing to recode/retag the event.
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  • kblarghkblargh Member Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    You know, maybe it's just a social experiment.

    Oh, and i maintain that they are punishing the entire player base. Some people here are just into punishment, is all. What do you call that, cyberchism?

    joke
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    kblargh wrote: »
    Oh, and i maintain that they are punishing the entire player base. Some people here are just into punishment, is all. What do you call that, cyberchism?

    Since not everyone ran the Tour, it seems logically impossible to punish the entire player base by reducing the rewards. In fact, since it's a closed economy, everyone who didn't run the Tour got a net benefit out of the change.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
  • kblarghkblargh Member Posts: 170 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    i don't think you quoted the whole thing, sir
  • elessymelessym Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    kblargh wrote: »
    i don't think you quoted the whole thing, sir

    Deliberately. Color-coding something black is weaksauce.
    "Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
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