No it wouldn't. But my point is about them not learning from their mistakes. Missing the odd thing here and there is understandable, however this patch alone had at least three things that I know of which weren't in the patch notes.
The tour nerf,
the Fix for the Risian Tribble syrup effect when taking off,
a Nerf for the Orion Slaver HP.
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
thecosmic1 we have had our differences but i must give credit where credit is due and this was a great post
Whether or not people craft now is irrelevant. My use of the example was to illustrate that some decisions are done for the overall health of the game/economy/business despite the rage you see on the forums. Far greater rage back then with the dilithium in crafting debate than there is here with the Tour. Despite that, the change was still implemented.
btw, if you go to Memory alpha, you will still find some people crafting away.
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#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
You are naive to the extreme if you think this was a mistake, They have been seeing what they can slip in quietly and I can assure you this is just the thin end of the wedge there will be stealth changes that no one has even picked up on because alone they mean nothing but combined with other small changes down the line they will make big differences. This is just one part of a big nerf on EC grinding and if we let it go on unchallenged then they will eventually get to something you care about!
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
There are bigger and more game breaking changes that are needed like AFK'ers in STF's but the Devs do nothing about that. However that is just an Example what people are so annoyed about is that they pay good money to play this game and the Devs only ever act on things that hurt their bottom line. Changes that players scream for to be changed and fixed go unfixed and un-noticed and it is annoying when insignificant (from the players perspective) changes like this are made.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
Just because other people may have business knowledge does not mean that the devs do not have incognito accounts that is very specious reasoning. That is like saying the Police do not need Undercover officers. Go back through the history and look at the types of nonsense threads that have been bumped or generated by members with a very small amount of posts to try and force this off the first page. Again you are showing your nativity here!
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
This is the most specious of your reasoning, I am a Moderation Administrator for a much larger and older (1995) multi gaming forum and we only have about 150'000 members. If I had to guess and having no knowledge of numbers I would have to guess that this forum can only have about (STO) 50'000 members at most and then you have to take into account duplicate accounts, old inactive accounts, then there are probably only about at most 20'000 unique active accounts on these forums. If anyone has actual numbers then feel free to dispute this guesswork. However it is not only the number of actual posts in this thread, which if my educated guesswork is right is from a lot larger of a percentage of the members than you give, it is the time in which it has generated those posts and views. On our forums we have a dedicated spam forum for members to bump up their post counts and that would struggle to make 700 posts in the time this thread has accrued posts and it is very busy indeed. Then there is the fact that this forum itself is only a percentage of actual players who play the game and I do not know what magic formulae TV companies use when measuring ratings but one person on this forum may in fact represent 20 in game, again just an arbitrary figure I am no mathematician but you can rest assured that forums I do know and 736 posts and over 18000 views in 5 days is a lot more than 1% of the member-base and is in fact a BIG! message to cryptic!
btw, if you go to Memory alpha, you will still find some people crafting away.
Yeah, before they reach Lv30. I was one of them, happily taking those multiphasic events every other turn, until unreplicable materials became required. With the commons i kinda bit the buttlet because it wasn't that much, but from the point i have to burn 7000+ dilithium on it, i went "F that".
And mind you, i didn't even know there had been a nerf, but no way did it not strike me as TRIBBLE why you would waste your time harvesting materials for then to have to spend here little less than what you spend elsewhere for a better selection. Seems to me, i might as well just straight up harvest dilithium, period, then go to the Fleet Starbase or the Rep System and buy it there.
So yeah, hearing now that the crafting used to be dilithium free suddenly makes a lot of sense. The kind you bang your head into a palmtree at.
Then there is the fact that this forum itself is only a percentage of actual players who play the game and I do not know what magic formulae TV companies use when measuring ratings but one person on this forum may in fact represent 20 in game, again just an arbitrary figure I am no mathematician but you can rest assured that forums I do know and 736 posts and over 18000 views in 5 days is a lot more than 1% of the member-base and is in fact a BIG! message to cryptic!
While not as informed as you, i tried to make that point at least twice in this thread already. I guess people just take whatever they want to take, because it's been a pretty futile effort.
You are naive to the extreme if you think this was a mistake, They have been seeing what they can slip in quietly and I can assure you this is just the thin end of the wedge there will be stealth changes that no one has even picked up on because alone they mean nothing but combined with other small changes down the line they will make big differences. This is just one part of a big nerf on EC grinding and if we let it go on unchallenged then they will eventually get to something you care about!
Not as naive as people like you thinking that Cryptic genuinely believed nobody would notice this if they didn't put it in the patch notes. Do you see how incredibly stupid that thinking is? They weren't "stealth nerfing" it and trying to hide it from us, because they knew with 100% certainty that thousands of people would find out about it as soon as the next tour hit. What a silly thing to say.
Just because other people may have business knowledge does not mean that the devs do not have incognito accounts that is very specious reasoning. That is like saying the Police do not need Undercover officers.
The devs have openly said that they have their own personal accounts. Nothing new here. If I were a dev, I'd for sure have a personal account where I could play without being bothered with questions/complaints when I'm not on the clock.
And mind you, i didn't even know there had been a nerf, but no way did it not strike me as TRIBBLE why you would waste your time harvesting materials for then to have to spend here what you spend elsewhere for little more than that. Seems to me, i might as well just straight up harvest dilithium, period, then go to the Fleet Starbase or the Rep and buy it there. Better choice of gear, too.
Certainly there is better gear out there these days than what you can craft. But back then, mark XI was the best you could get. The fleet system had not been implemented yet. I certainly wouldn't argue with you that crafting really isn't worth it once you hit lvl 50. But the point I was making was that their decision was not reversed by the complaints on the forums.
As an aside, there are plans for a crafting revamp down the line, and the devs have said that any 'progress' you have made in the current crafting system will have at least some carry over into the new system. Also, there IS a market for crafting. Unreplicatable materials are sold on the exchange. And there is at least ONE thing that can ONLY be made by crafting (ie Aegis set).
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Not as naive as people like you thinking that Cryptic genuinely believed nobody would notice this if they didn't put it in the patch notes. Do you see how incredibly stupid that thinking is? They weren't "stealth nerfing" it and trying to hide it from us, because they knew with 100% certainty that thousands of people would find out about it as soon as the next tour hit. What a silly thing to say.
It's less a matter of whether they knew or not than a matter of discipline. The discipline is you don't announce an unpopular change, and that's what they stick to. From a practical standpoint alone, they avoided most people who don't take the tour and don't cruise this section of the forums. They also avoided one or two last Tour rushes to grind as much as they could, coming into this unprepared.
So no, it's not naive at all. Not on his part, anyway.
If I had to guess and having no knowledge of numbers I would have to guess that this forum can only have about (STO) 50'000 members at most and then you have to take into account duplicate accounts, old inactive accounts, then there are probably only about at most 20'000 unique active accounts on these forums.
I'll skip over all the paranoid ramblings and only address this. You can't register for STO without getting a forum account. We know there are over 2 million captains in the game. If every player had 10 characters - which would mean every FTP player needed to buy 7 additional character slots, that would equate to 200,000 accounts and players - and I doubt everyone has 10 characters.
As far as your 18,000 looks into the thread. It's just simple math. If you have 200 active participants and they each come into this thread to see what everyone's saying you have a maximum potential of 40,000 views based on only 200 people. I'm quite certain that at least 100 of the 18,000 views on this thread have come from me alone by posting and coming back to read what others have posted. I'm sure if someone actually bothered to list every unique poster in this thread mad about the change it probably doesn't even equate to 250 people - probably not even 150. It's quite simply just a relatively small group of people posting over and over and reading what everyone else is saying.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Not as naive as people like you thinking that Cryptic genuinely believed nobody would notice this if they didn't put it in the patch notes. Do you see how incredibly stupid that thinking is? They weren't "stealth nerfing" it and trying to hide it from us, because they knew with 100% certainty that thousands of people would find out about it as soon as the next tour hit. What a silly thing to say.
Did you even read my post I was not only talking about the tour I was talking about other stealth nerfs also more subtle ones that alone might mean nothing but coupled with some other future nerfs will equate to a big change. As for the Tour and my post it would not be naivety in fact my post is the opposite of naivety and you should learn the meaning of words before reworking someone argument and attempting to spit it back at them. My post could be considered be considered as far as a conspiracy theory but certainly not naive. Regarding the tour itself they have avoided a lot of flack they would have received if it was placed into the patch notes at first and they did omit it on purpose that is not being "naive" as you incorrectly put it or being a conspiracy theorist it is simply pragmatism!
No offense, cosmic, but i think you cherry-picked him a little there.
He's the one claiming to be the numbers expert based on his Mod experience on another gaming forum. As such he should expect his guesses to be questioned.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Not as naive as people like you thinking that Cryptic genuinely believed nobody would notice this if they didn't put it in the patch notes. Do you see how incredibly stupid that thinking is? They weren't "stealth nerfing" it and trying to hide it from us, because they knew with 100% certainty that thousands of people would find out about it as soon as the next tour hit. What a silly thing to say.
To each its own...all are entitled to their opinion. Some would call being naive in second guessing and TRUSTING Cryptic's motives to be ultimately for the benefit of all playerbase as stated above.
Others would called that an "unethical and just creepy bad habit" in how it was rolled out....and not the first time it happened...Cryptic is a repeat offender in making sure nerfs' communication are minimized due to the backlash...only thing that changed is that the playerbase is louder than before. So much for this since they won't do much anyway. This case is over and playerbase just gets screwed up big time once more :eek::D
He's the one claiming to be the numbers expert based on his Mod experience on another gaming forum. As such he should expect his guesses to be questioned.
That as it may, you didn't question so much as outright correct him. Not that i doubt you on the numbers either way. I'm not a math guy. But you avoided the larger point he made, which kinda overturns the part about this group of people being too small. Which i happened to bring up more than once in this thread.
I cannon imagine it to be a realistic proposition to think the only people displeased with this matter are the ones posting in this forum. By that same logic, i could just say the only people agreeing with it are about, what, 30?
You could say the people not posting just don't care, but c'mon. Do you really think that's the case? I'm no Betazoid, but i gotta imagine there are a lot more people out there who have an opinion on this matter, or if not this specific thing, the larger thing about PWE's attitude toward the players. And i have read about it before on this forum. It didn't take any nerf to bring it up.
How many people do you think took this one as the back breaking straw and just left the game? Sure, maybe not many in the grand scheme of things but out of those 2 million captains, some are bound to have done it. If those captains had come here and posted about it, how many more dissatisfied players would this thread have got? Two, three, a dozen?
What if everyone with an opinion on it, for or against, came here and posted on it - and we can assume the ones absent would just not care, how big would this thread get?
The point is, this mass of people right here is representative, whether we want to or not. And PWE may take notice of it, or they may not, but sooner or later - and this will happen regardless of this thread, some of those will have had enough and cut their cashflow off the game. They may never have even posted here even once, but they are by no means silent.
So honestly, i do hope Cryptic or PWE don't follow the "oh, but this is such a small group" mentality, because it will likely blow up in their faces, sooner or later. Regardless of anything you or i say or do.
I'll skip over all the paranoid ramblings and only address this. You can't register for STO without getting a forum account. We know there are over 2 million captains in the game. If every player had 10 characters - which would mean every FTP player needed to buy 7 additional character slots, that would equate to 200,000 accounts and players - and I doubt everyone has 10 characters.
Did you read my message completely I mentioned the majority of these. They would fall within inactive accounts, people who do not bother or even know about the forums as it is not explicit when you sign up that you are also creating a forum account. Also your forum account is created from your @name so you may have 10 toons in game it will still only equate to 1 forum account unless the player actually registers a completely different game account. Seriously what is with people not reading before they reply. I stated that there can only be 20'000 ACTIVE!! unique accounts on these forums going by the numbers we see on other threads. Convenient that you say you will skip over the the rest of my argument and call it paranoid, A) you will skip over it because you have no logical reply for it and the fact you call reasoned and logical argument "Paranoid" leads me to question your intelligence at a basic level! Also you say we know there are 2 million captains, there may well be 2 million registered accounts but how many of them are even still active in game. I personally know of 5 players that quit the game recently there will be thousands more.
So lets use your "math" the shorthand is maths by the way and the correct word is mathematics.
So there are 2'000'000 captains in this game and if as you claim it is reasonable to assume that the average player has 10 toons that would leave 200'000 accounts each with coinciding forum accounts. Even if only 10% are inactive in game that is 20'000 inactive accounts and considering the large number of leavers that number is likely to be much higher. Now how many active players actually visit the forums. I am subscribed to many channels in game and one of the older channels with over 300 members I am one of only 10 that comes on the forums, or admit to it, I constantly get told I am wasting my time now that is a very niche variable however in the absence of empirical data it is all I have to go on and about as much as you have to go on I might add. So 10/300 would equate to 3% but that is not a concrete number and a lot of speculation but the majority of people in game do not bother with the forums and that is a general consensus. So if we say only 1/10 people in game bother with the forums or 10% that would make around 18'000 people and that is tripling what I have experienced the ratio to be!.
EDIT:
Just read your other post and not once did I claim to be a numbers Expert I said I have experience with forums and posting habits which I do. You really need to start reading posts!
So honestly, i do hope Cryptic or PWE don't follow the "oh, but this is such a small group" mentality, because it will likely blow up in their faces, sooner or later. Regardless of anything you or i say or do.
As I said above, the Dilthium reward change from months ago affected everyone - as Dilthium is the primary currency of the game and end-game. We screamed, we hollered, we cried, we swore we'd never spend another dollar on Zen or play again. The game is still here, the change to the reward was never altered, the player-base keeps growing, and Cryptic has already announced a new Expansion Pack for next year - which implies they're making good money.
Do you honestly believe the EC reward from 1 event was a bigger deal then the Dilithium change? If they didnt' reverse that why would they reverse the EC change? Cryptic is focusing on data and metrics you just don't have available to you. We might not like it but the change wasn't put in place so that you can't buy a Lockbox ship from the Exchange. They're dealing with Exchange inflation issues that are getting completely out of hand - not to mention attempting to crimp gold sellers.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Again, the larger matter of their attitude is the issue here. I'm pretty sure i've repeatedly said what got me the most was how they addressed this to the community.
Oh, and that Dilithium nerf? It didn't go away. It's right here, adding it's weight to this whole mess. Case in point, it's now a variable in my judgement of Cryptic and PWE, and i wasn't even around when it happened.
New players coming in aren't blank slates. They inherit to a smaller or larger extent the opinions of those who were here before, such is the wonder of written communication.
And like i said. Whether the execs wise up or not, this trend is not sustainable in the long run. It will come to a head, regardless of this thread. This is just an indication, at most.
Again, the larger matter of their attitude is the issue here. I'm pretty sure i've repeatedly said what got me the most was how they addressed this to the community.
And as I've said repeatedly, Cryptic's patches are bugged quite frequently - I would estimate roughly 20% of the time since LoR. If they can make mistakes in patches they can make mistakes in Patch Notes. There doesn't need to be sinister intent - especially when it's obvious when the patch goes live.
Oh, and that Dilithium nerf? It didn't go away.
It didn't go away, and that was my point. Dilithium was a huge issue for everyone. The tour change is microscopic in comparison. If they didn't bow to pressure with Dilithium why would the with the tour?
New players coming in aren't blank slates. They inherit to a smaller or larger extent the opinions of those who were here before, such is the wonder of written communication.
As I was just reminded by another poster in another thread 5 minutes ago: a lot of new people don't bother to read everything on the forum.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Again, the larger matter of their attitude is the issue here. I'm pretty sure i've repeatedly said what got me the most was how they addressed this to the community.
Oh, and that Dilithium nerf? It didn't go away. It's right here, adding it's weight to this whole mess. Case in point, it's now a variable in my judgement of Cryptic and PWE, and i wasn't even around when it happened.
New players coming in aren't blank slates. They inherit to a smaller or larger extent the opinions of those who were here before, such is the wonder of written communication.
And like i said. Whether the execs wise up or not, this trend is not sustainable in the long run. It will come to a head, regardless of this thread. This is just an indication, at most.
What of the entitled attitudes of the players in this thread who are demanding this and that of the dev company? Is that ok to you? It's not ok to me. I feel that a lot of the players in this thread are totally ignorant of the impact that all of that free EC had on the economy.
Go and play the game to earn EC as you're now meant to.
What Dilithium nerf are you referring to? I have no trouble hitting my cap every day. The PVP missions practically do it by themselves.
I feel that the players in this thread who are complaining about this change are simply refusing to adapt and learn to play the game as it was better intended.
And as I've said repeatedly, Cryptic's patches are bugged quite frequently - I would estimate roughly 20% of the time since LoR. If they can make mistakes in patches they can make mistakes in Patch Notes. There doesn't need to be sinister intent - especially when it's obvious when the patch goes live.
And like I've said, these things accumulate till they reach a breaking point. I would estimate that for a lot of players they already have.
It didn't go away, and that was my point. Dilithium was a huge issue for everyone. The tour change is microscopic in comparison. If they didn't bow to pressure with Dilithium why would the with the tour?
You can't not know that's nowhere near the way i meant it, or you didn't read it right or something. C'mon sir, you keep replying to what i didn't say, we'll just keep going in circles here.
As I was just reminded by another poster in another thread 5 minutes ago: a lot of new people don't bother to read everything on the forum.
Whoever that guy was, i'm pretty sure he didn't include "new" in that sentence. He said a lot of people don't post, period. To which he also added - and this is the point here, in spite of that, they are by no means silent.
You can't not know that's nowhere near the way i meant it, or you didn't read it right or something. C'mon sir, you keep replying to what i didn't say, we'll just keep going in circles here.
Perhaps you don't write what you mean? You said the Dilthium nerf didn't go away. I said yes, it didn't and then went on to say that if people couldn't make that BIG issue go away why do they think this little issue would be reversed?
Whoever that guy was, i'm pretty sure he didn't include "new" in that sentence. He said a lot of people don't post, period. To which he also added - and this is the point here, in spite of that, they are by no means silent.
I was actually referring to a new poster from another thread - which is why I said "another poster in another thread."
Not everyone will read these, im a prime example lol.
this is the first real effort iv made in any forum ever.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
I'm not sure whether this will have much of an impact on the folks who've already amassed hundreds of millions of EC. Or that it will correct the exhorbitant prices on the Exchange in the short term.
Fact is, the event was intended to be run one way and people were playing it a different way to maximize their profits. Cryptic closed the loophole. Done.
I don't know why they bothered to use a 4 hour cooldown, though... TtU doesn't run every 4 hours. I wish it did -- I'd be more likely to catch the event at a time when I can actually play the game instead of while I'm at work or in the middle of the night.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What of the entitled attitudes of the players in this thread who are demanding this and that of the dev company? Is that ok to you? It's not ok to me. I feel that a lot of the players in this thread are totally ignorant of the impact that all of that free EC had on the economy.
Go and play the game to earn EC as you're now meant to.
What Dilithium nerf are you referring to? I have no trouble hitting my cap every day. The PVP missions practically do it by themselves.
I feel that the players in this thread who are complaining about this change are simply refusing to adapt and learn to play the game as it was better intended.
Well, i'm sure we all respect your feelings, sir. But respectfully, if you don't want to demand anything, as you say we're doing, that's your fine business, as it is to sit there and rule how we should be spending our time speaking our minds within the rules of this forum. I'm sure you can report me to the moderators, if you truly feel this is anathema to the behavior you're entitled to expect from us.
As to doing anything in this game as how you feel i'm meant to, i have the better idea that i shall instead proceed to do whatever i feel like doing in this fine game which, honestly, is the kind of thing without which the purpose of playing a game is kinda defeated to begin with.
The Dilithium nerf i'm referring to is the Dilithium nerf everyone else is referring to. Kindly ask them, as i'm not your mother.
II don't know why they bothered to use a 4 hour cooldown, though... TtU doesn't run every 4 hours. I wish it did -- I'd be more likely to catch the event at a time when I can actually play the game instead of while I'm at work or in the middle of the night.
The cooldown is there because most people didn't run the entire event. They'd run a few advantageous sectors to collect EC, then cancel the rest of the event and then retake it - doing that several times within the hour. So rather then running thirty sectors they'd run 4 or 5 four sector events. The cooldown means you can only take it once per hour - not stopping and restarting.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Perhaps you don't write what you mean? You said the Dilthium nerf didn't go away. I said yes, it didn't and then went on to say that if people couldn't make that BIG issue go away why do they think this little issue would be reversed?
Alright, fair enough. My point was, the effect it had on the players is not gone, as their indignation has even reached me, who wasn't even around by the time it happened. Next time another nerf happens, and new players come here looking for something, the Tour nerf will be known to them, and they will know it's not a one-off or accident that it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes or whatever. Their opinion will be formed much faster than in a vacuum, and their indignation will stack accordingly. This will reflect on how much money they'll be then willing to shell on this game.
The cooldown is there because most people didn't run the entire event. They'd run a few advantageous sectors to collect EC, then cancel the rest of the event and then retake it - doing that several times within the hour. So rather then running thirty sectors they'd run 4 or 5 four sector events. The cooldown means you can only take it once per hour - not stopping and restarting.
Actually, the cooldown appears to be there to keep people from running the event more than once per cycle, full stop. If they wanted to, they could have stopped the four sector repeaters without affecting the players that run multiple full laps, but they chose to stop both, which suggests to me that even the lesser amount of EC from the 'lappers' was seen as a problem.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Comments
SO who is the STUPID now
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
My character Tsin'xing
thecosmic1 we have had our differences but i must give credit where credit is due and this was a great post
100% Agree and +alot
Whether or not people craft now is irrelevant. My use of the example was to illustrate that some decisions are done for the overall health of the game/economy/business despite the rage you see on the forums. Far greater rage back then with the dilithium in crafting debate than there is here with the Tour. Despite that, the change was still implemented.
btw, if you go to Memory alpha, you will still find some people crafting away.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You are naive to the extreme if you think this was a mistake, They have been seeing what they can slip in quietly and I can assure you this is just the thin end of the wedge there will be stealth changes that no one has even picked up on because alone they mean nothing but combined with other small changes down the line they will make big differences. This is just one part of a big nerf on EC grinding and if we let it go on unchallenged then they will eventually get to something you care about!
There are bigger and more game breaking changes that are needed like AFK'ers in STF's but the Devs do nothing about that. However that is just an Example what people are so annoyed about is that they pay good money to play this game and the Devs only ever act on things that hurt their bottom line. Changes that players scream for to be changed and fixed go unfixed and un-noticed and it is annoying when insignificant (from the players perspective) changes like this are made.
Just because other people may have business knowledge does not mean that the devs do not have incognito accounts that is very specious reasoning. That is like saying the Police do not need Undercover officers. Go back through the history and look at the types of nonsense threads that have been bumped or generated by members with a very small amount of posts to try and force this off the first page. Again you are showing your nativity here!
This is the most specious of your reasoning, I am a Moderation Administrator for a much larger and older (1995) multi gaming forum and we only have about 150'000 members. If I had to guess and having no knowledge of numbers I would have to guess that this forum can only have about (STO) 50'000 members at most and then you have to take into account duplicate accounts, old inactive accounts, then there are probably only about at most 20'000 unique active accounts on these forums. If anyone has actual numbers then feel free to dispute this guesswork. However it is not only the number of actual posts in this thread, which if my educated guesswork is right is from a lot larger of a percentage of the members than you give, it is the time in which it has generated those posts and views. On our forums we have a dedicated spam forum for members to bump up their post counts and that would struggle to make 700 posts in the time this thread has accrued posts and it is very busy indeed. Then there is the fact that this forum itself is only a percentage of actual players who play the game and I do not know what magic formulae TV companies use when measuring ratings but one person on this forum may in fact represent 20 in game, again just an arbitrary figure I am no mathematician but you can rest assured that forums I do know and 736 posts and over 18000 views in 5 days is a lot more than 1% of the member-base and is in fact a BIG! message to cryptic!
Yeah, before they reach Lv30. I was one of them, happily taking those multiphasic events every other turn, until unreplicable materials became required. With the commons i kinda bit the buttlet because it wasn't that much, but from the point i have to burn 7000+ dilithium on it, i went "F that".
And mind you, i didn't even know there had been a nerf, but no way did it not strike me as TRIBBLE why you would waste your time harvesting materials for then to have to spend here little less than what you spend elsewhere for a better selection. Seems to me, i might as well just straight up harvest dilithium, period, then go to the Fleet Starbase or the Rep System and buy it there.
So yeah, hearing now that the crafting used to be dilithium free suddenly makes a lot of sense. The kind you bang your head into a palmtree at.
While not as informed as you, i tried to make that point at least twice in this thread already. I guess people just take whatever they want to take, because it's been a pretty futile effort.
Not as naive as people like you thinking that Cryptic genuinely believed nobody would notice this if they didn't put it in the patch notes. Do you see how incredibly stupid that thinking is? They weren't "stealth nerfing" it and trying to hide it from us, because they knew with 100% certainty that thousands of people would find out about it as soon as the next tour hit. What a silly thing to say.
Kirk's Protege.
The devs have openly said that they have their own personal accounts. Nothing new here. If I were a dev, I'd for sure have a personal account where I could play without being bothered with questions/complaints when I'm not on the clock.
Certainly there is better gear out there these days than what you can craft. But back then, mark XI was the best you could get. The fleet system had not been implemented yet. I certainly wouldn't argue with you that crafting really isn't worth it once you hit lvl 50. But the point I was making was that their decision was not reversed by the complaints on the forums.
As an aside, there are plans for a crafting revamp down the line, and the devs have said that any 'progress' you have made in the current crafting system will have at least some carry over into the new system. Also, there IS a market for crafting. Unreplicatable materials are sold on the exchange. And there is at least ONE thing that can ONLY be made by crafting (ie Aegis set).
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's less a matter of whether they knew or not than a matter of discipline. The discipline is you don't announce an unpopular change, and that's what they stick to. From a practical standpoint alone, they avoided most people who don't take the tour and don't cruise this section of the forums. They also avoided one or two last Tour rushes to grind as much as they could, coming into this unprepared.
So no, it's not naive at all. Not on his part, anyway.
As far as your 18,000 looks into the thread. It's just simple math. If you have 200 active participants and they each come into this thread to see what everyone's saying you have a maximum potential of 40,000 views based on only 200 people. I'm quite certain that at least 100 of the 18,000 views on this thread have come from me alone by posting and coming back to read what others have posted. I'm sure if someone actually bothered to list every unique poster in this thread mad about the change it probably doesn't even equate to 250 people - probably not even 150. It's quite simply just a relatively small group of people posting over and over and reading what everyone else is saying.
Did you even read my post I was not only talking about the tour I was talking about other stealth nerfs also more subtle ones that alone might mean nothing but coupled with some other future nerfs will equate to a big change. As for the Tour and my post it would not be naivety in fact my post is the opposite of naivety and you should learn the meaning of words before reworking someone argument and attempting to spit it back at them. My post could be considered be considered as far as a conspiracy theory but certainly not naive. Regarding the tour itself they have avoided a lot of flack they would have received if it was placed into the patch notes at first and they did omit it on purpose that is not being "naive" as you incorrectly put it or being a conspiracy theorist it is simply pragmatism!
To each its own...all are entitled to their opinion. Some would call being naive in second guessing and TRUSTING Cryptic's motives to be ultimately for the benefit of all playerbase as stated above.
Others would called that an "unethical and just creepy bad habit" in how it was rolled out....and not the first time it happened...Cryptic is a repeat offender in making sure nerfs' communication are minimized due to the backlash...only thing that changed is that the playerbase is louder than before. So much for this since they won't do much anyway. This case is over and playerbase just gets screwed up big time once more :eek::D
That as it may, you didn't question so much as outright correct him. Not that i doubt you on the numbers either way. I'm not a math guy. But you avoided the larger point he made, which kinda overturns the part about this group of people being too small. Which i happened to bring up more than once in this thread.
I cannon imagine it to be a realistic proposition to think the only people displeased with this matter are the ones posting in this forum. By that same logic, i could just say the only people agreeing with it are about, what, 30?
You could say the people not posting just don't care, but c'mon. Do you really think that's the case? I'm no Betazoid, but i gotta imagine there are a lot more people out there who have an opinion on this matter, or if not this specific thing, the larger thing about PWE's attitude toward the players. And i have read about it before on this forum. It didn't take any nerf to bring it up.
How many people do you think took this one as the back breaking straw and just left the game? Sure, maybe not many in the grand scheme of things but out of those 2 million captains, some are bound to have done it. If those captains had come here and posted about it, how many more dissatisfied players would this thread have got? Two, three, a dozen?
What if everyone with an opinion on it, for or against, came here and posted on it - and we can assume the ones absent would just not care, how big would this thread get?
The point is, this mass of people right here is representative, whether we want to or not. And PWE may take notice of it, or they may not, but sooner or later - and this will happen regardless of this thread, some of those will have had enough and cut their cashflow off the game. They may never have even posted here even once, but they are by no means silent.
So honestly, i do hope Cryptic or PWE don't follow the "oh, but this is such a small group" mentality, because it will likely blow up in their faces, sooner or later. Regardless of anything you or i say or do.
So lets use your "math" the shorthand is maths by the way and the correct word is mathematics.
So there are 2'000'000 captains in this game and if as you claim it is reasonable to assume that the average player has 10 toons that would leave 200'000 accounts each with coinciding forum accounts. Even if only 10% are inactive in game that is 20'000 inactive accounts and considering the large number of leavers that number is likely to be much higher. Now how many active players actually visit the forums. I am subscribed to many channels in game and one of the older channels with over 300 members I am one of only 10 that comes on the forums, or admit to it, I constantly get told I am wasting my time now that is a very niche variable however in the absence of empirical data it is all I have to go on and about as much as you have to go on I might add. So 10/300 would equate to 3% but that is not a concrete number and a lot of speculation but the majority of people in game do not bother with the forums and that is a general consensus. So if we say only 1/10 people in game bother with the forums or 10% that would make around 18'000 people and that is tripling what I have experienced the ratio to be!.
EDIT:
Just read your other post and not once did I claim to be a numbers Expert I said I have experience with forums and posting habits which I do. You really need to start reading posts!
Do you honestly believe the EC reward from 1 event was a bigger deal then the Dilithium change? If they didnt' reverse that why would they reverse the EC change? Cryptic is focusing on data and metrics you just don't have available to you. We might not like it but the change wasn't put in place so that you can't buy a Lockbox ship from the Exchange. They're dealing with Exchange inflation issues that are getting completely out of hand - not to mention attempting to crimp gold sellers.
Oh, and that Dilithium nerf? It didn't go away. It's right here, adding it's weight to this whole mess. Case in point, it's now a variable in my judgement of Cryptic and PWE, and i wasn't even around when it happened.
New players coming in aren't blank slates. They inherit to a smaller or larger extent the opinions of those who were here before, such is the wonder of written communication.
And like i said. Whether the execs wise up or not, this trend is not sustainable in the long run. It will come to a head, regardless of this thread. This is just an indication, at most.
It didn't go away, and that was my point. Dilithium was a huge issue for everyone. The tour change is microscopic in comparison. If they didn't bow to pressure with Dilithium why would the with the tour?
As I was just reminded by another poster in another thread 5 minutes ago: a lot of new people don't bother to read everything on the forum.
What of the entitled attitudes of the players in this thread who are demanding this and that of the dev company? Is that ok to you? It's not ok to me. I feel that a lot of the players in this thread are totally ignorant of the impact that all of that free EC had on the economy.
Go and play the game to earn EC as you're now meant to.
What Dilithium nerf are you referring to? I have no trouble hitting my cap every day. The PVP missions practically do it by themselves.
I feel that the players in this thread who are complaining about this change are simply refusing to adapt and learn to play the game as it was better intended.
And like I've said, these things accumulate till they reach a breaking point. I would estimate that for a lot of players they already have.
You can't not know that's nowhere near the way i meant it, or you didn't read it right or something. C'mon sir, you keep replying to what i didn't say, we'll just keep going in circles here.
Whoever that guy was, i'm pretty sure he didn't include "new" in that sentence. He said a lot of people don't post, period. To which he also added - and this is the point here, in spite of that, they are by no means silent.
I was actually referring to a new poster from another thread - which is why I said "another poster in another thread."
Fact is, the event was intended to be run one way and people were playing it a different way to maximize their profits. Cryptic closed the loophole. Done.
I don't know why they bothered to use a 4 hour cooldown, though... TtU doesn't run every 4 hours. I wish it did -- I'd be more likely to catch the event at a time when I can actually play the game instead of while I'm at work or in the middle of the night.
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Well, i'm sure we all respect your feelings, sir. But respectfully, if you don't want to demand anything, as you say we're doing, that's your fine business, as it is to sit there and rule how we should be spending our time speaking our minds within the rules of this forum. I'm sure you can report me to the moderators, if you truly feel this is anathema to the behavior you're entitled to expect from us.
As to doing anything in this game as how you feel i'm meant to, i have the better idea that i shall instead proceed to do whatever i feel like doing in this fine game which, honestly, is the kind of thing without which the purpose of playing a game is kinda defeated to begin with.
The Dilithium nerf i'm referring to is the Dilithium nerf everyone else is referring to. Kindly ask them, as i'm not your mother.
Have a nice day.
Alright, fair enough. My point was, the effect it had on the players is not gone, as their indignation has even reached me, who wasn't even around by the time it happened. Next time another nerf happens, and new players come here looking for something, the Tour nerf will be known to them, and they will know it's not a one-off or accident that it wasn't mentioned in the patch notes or whatever. Their opinion will be formed much faster than in a vacuum, and their indignation will stack accordingly. This will reflect on how much money they'll be then willing to shell on this game.
Actually, the cooldown appears to be there to keep people from running the event more than once per cycle, full stop. If they wanted to, they could have stopped the four sector repeaters without affecting the players that run multiple full laps, but they chose to stop both, which suggests to me that even the lesser amount of EC from the 'lappers' was seen as a problem.