... let people make as many legitimate laps as they can.
Actually, had they done that to begin with, my reaction would've been like "huh, touche. Well played", or something of the sort...
.
Agreed.. at 1st glance, for some strange reason, I'd worked the cooldown out as 10mins (i really have no idea why) my initial reaction was 'ok so i can still aim for 5 laps' i didn't actually have any problem with that, just seen it as a change to the system. It wasn't until someone pointed out my mistake that the frustration and angst set in.
I've seen here ppl, some trolls maybe, but maybe some not, are been glad that the exploit was removed.
How can you not see it wasnt an exploit???? The short version of it, with just the 4 sectors, the one that is called an exploit was no more then just a strategy, in the line of something you can do with what you got, in this case time.
If you follow Cryptic's logic, that this was an exploit, then what next? Before you know it 10% rule in Infected Space STF, MRRMLL strategy in Cure space STF or the triger lines in Infected Ground STF will soon be called exploits too:eek:.
Now there were some real exploits, like getting infinite number of doffs from reclaiming DS9 bundle pack, buying infinite number of copies of doffs from Lt. Ferra from the Academy or, in STF cases, killing Armek boss in Cure ground from a certain spot in a corner where he couldnt target you or doing Cure Space without a cooldown. Now those are (well, were actually, cuz they got fix, and i am thankfull for that) exploits, but not the route of the tour wich was just another strategy, like the STF ones mentioned earlier that are allowing us to do STFs with optionals, or even completting them for that matter, in Cure space case.
And I still stand on my opinion that this nerf has nothing to do with reducing inflation, but is just on order, problly from PWE, to get more money from players.
If they wanted ppl to do the full tour they couldve just add rewards at the end or just put a cooldown if you drop the mission.
I've seen here ppl, some trolls maybe, but maybe some not, are been glad that the exploit was removed. How can you not see it wasnt an exploit???? The short version of it, with just the 4 sectors, the one that is called an exploit was no more then just a strategy, in the line of something you can do with what you got, in this case time.
Whether you call it 'exploit' or 'strategy' really doesn't matter. The reality is that there was too much EC being generated per unit time spent in the game. So they adjusted it by adding a cooldown. They could have done it in other ways, but the results would have been the same because their goal was to reduce the amount of EC that can be created. There would have been complaints no matter what. Instead of a cooldown, for example, they could have just reduced the payout to 10K per sector instead of 50K. Same complaints would have surfaced here on the forums.
And I still stand on my opinion that this nerf has nothing to do with reducing inflation, but is just on order, problly from PWE, to get more money from players.
How does EC affect getting money from players? You can't convert EC to dilithium or Zen very easily. And top end gear is mostly bind on pickup, so you can't buy it with EC anyway. Sure, you can use EC to buy ship modules and master keys, but reducing the overall EC in the economy will only serve to LOWER the prices on these items on the exchange.
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I mean, it seems to me like one of the big ways to make EC in the game is buying keys with real money and exchanging them. Now, we can go about how the exchange prices will be affected by this and how things will go, but at a glance, i think it would have been a pretty good guess to assume the Tour was competing pretty heavily with that cash-cow.
I don't think it would have taken long at all for Jabba to jump into that wagon.
I always thought that the high availability of keys on the exchange, combined with their pretty stable price, was representative of a smooth, healthy market. If the demand for ec purchased keys is steady, then the purchase of keys with zen to sell on the exchange must also be relatively steady to facilitate this. The availability of lockbox and lobi items on the exchange may also support this premise. If this is the case, theoretically this change hurts the cash flow. The only thing i can see having any consequential effect on cash purchased zen, is dilithium, as they are an interchangeable commodity..
I may just be looking at it the wrong way though and part of me still wonders if this change was just about the ec's
I always thought that the high availability of keys on the exchange, combined with their pretty stable price, was representative of a smooth, healthy market. If the demand for ec purchased keys is steady, then the purchase of keys with zen to sell on the exchange must also be relatively steady to facilitate this. The availability of lockbox and lobi items on the exchange may also support this premise. If this is the case, theoretically this change hurts the cash flow. The only thing i can see having any consequential effect on cash purchased zen, is dilithium, as they are an interchangeable commodity..
I may just be looking at it the wrong way though and part of me still wonders if this change was just about the ec's
Pretty sure the only way to really know will be to see it play out. I know it's too much math for my head, at least.
- Tour the Galaxy Official Route: 1.4 million EC for ONE hour of playtime.
That was 4 laps/hour at 350K each.
- Tour the Galaxy Short ("exploit") Route: 2.8-3 miliion EC for ONE hour of playtime.
That was 12-14 laps/hour at 200K each.
Please name ONE instance in the entire game where you can put those same numbers in the same amount of playtime and come back to me.
If its a Foundry loot grinder, I'd like to know the name of the mission.
Remember: 1.4 million EC minimum in one hour. Let's hear it.
Cheers.
I too would LOVE to know of any way to earn ECs at that rate. Even loot grinding from foundry missions doesn't bring that much due to the cap.
As for the stupid cooldown, I'm just glad I used it the tour as much as I had, all this means is that I'm even less inclined to spend real money than before. And because I bought into the game with the free month when signing up (with no actual subscription since that when the game became ftp), my main character enjoys all the inventory benefits that gold members get. Since my alts came long after my free month ran out I see the differences.
Funny thing is, with the hammering of the tour plus the introduction of the Risian corvette, the one thing I was saving up for, the JHAS (which you can't simply buy) isn't worth going after any more since:
1. Now it's not the only cross faction ship with an insane turn rate
2. The only known way of earning sufficient ecs to get it off the exchange now gone meaning now you can't get it by earning in-game.
Pretty sure the only way to really know will be to see it play out. I know it's too much math for my head, at least.
The whole game is an exploit if you really think about it. You invest time and effort and you get something for that...either a drop or advancing into next level. This logic does not make sense and only thing they want you to do is grind the last very penny out of your pocket....unacceptable :mad:
The whole game is an exploit if you really think about it. You invest time and effort and you get something for that...either a drop or advancing into next level. This logic does not make sense and only thing they want you to do is grind the last very penny out of your pocket....unacceptable :mad:
Well, they won't. Not that i wouldn't drop a penny under normal circumstances, but the whole online transactions thing is just too much for me. Plus, by how underhanded and dismissively they went about this whole thing, i'm very much less than inclined right now.
Hurt them where matters...their wallets....if enough people leave this game they have no recourse but listen to their players. WOW just lost 600k...time for STO next
Hurt them where matters...their wallets....if enough people leave this game they have no recourse but listen to their players. WOW just lost 600k...time for STO next
Or they could just shut down the game:(
You do realise there is not enough people in this thread who would actually do that to even effect cryptic anyway.
2. The only known way of earning sufficient ecs to get it off the exchange now gone meaning now you can't get it by earning in-game.
Huh? You can still get EC from earning it in game. You just can't get it AS FAST. There is a difference. It is now in line with other means of earning EC.
Hurt them where matters...their wallets....if enough people leave this game they have no recourse but listen to their players. WOW just lost 600k...time for STO next
Seriously, quitting over this? To each his own I guess.
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Huh? You can still get EC from earning it in game. You just can't get it AS FAST. There is a difference. It is now in line with other means of earning EC.
Seriously, quitting over this? To each his own I guess.
+ alot to this poster they understand
I read this thread mostly for comedy relief now and just shake my head at the sense entitlement and expectation some people have and the sheer overreaction.
ohh and dont forget all the i am quitting and your not seeing a penny from me rants.
As the above poster said to each there own if you feel thats what you need to do go ahead.
You do realise there is not enough people in this thread who would actually do that to even effect cryptic anyway.
Not to mention as another post mentioned people don't realize that the amount that post of the forum is a great minority to people who actually play.
I even read that people QQ refuse the tour now because they don't feel they make enough... i made this point earlier in this thread as well.
[sarcasm] ok guys we have herd you and we are not only going to revert it but the reward is going to be 100 mil a sector now.
or better yet we are announcing that once a day when you log on you will be granted the max amount of EC as a login bonus [/sarcasm]
shakes head . Yes it will take you longer but you were not supposed to make that much on the tour or as i just stated they would have had higher rewards in the first place.
I am quite happy with the game and support the patches. My only gripe is with the figgen times gates because they are the only thing slowing me down atm.
Devs do in fact listen to player's opinions and sometimes implement our suggestions. Case in point: Risan mail. There originally was no mail ability on Risa special event, a fact that had many players raise their eyebrows. In the last 48 hours mail was added in. A great addition that shows Devs can listen and act upon the good suggestion of many player's opinions. I'm going to thank them right now.
Now see, you say that but this also highlights a major flaw with the Dev team... They don't learn from their mistakes.
We also had an uproar about the lack of mail/bank/exchange access in the Winter event and they then added that in two weeks after it launched. Surely they should have learned from that and pre-emptively added it to this event?
Or Defera, where we've been asking for those facilities plus a vendor since the day it went live and we've still never seen any of them added.
Then there's all the stealth nerfs that they continually throw at us thinking we wont notice until an hour later when uproar starts on the forums and they come in with "oh, yeah, we forgot"... The biggest issue with the game is that the Devs don't appear to learn from their past mistakes.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Then there's all the stealth nerfs that they continually throw at us thinking we wont notice until an hour later when uproar starts on the forums and they come in with "oh, yeah, we forgot"... The biggest issue with the game is that the Devs don't appear to learn from their past mistakes.
Cryptic doesn't care if the uproar starts at 8:00 PM when Branflakes posts that Patch Notes or at 11:00 AM the next day when the patch goes live. They've learned that there's going to be an uproar no matter what, so most of the time the lack of info in the Patch Notes is more oversight then trying to sneak something in and save themselves a few hours of uproar.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Cryptic doesn't care if the uproar starts at 8:00 PM when Branflakes posts that Patch Notes or at 11:00 AM the next day when the patch goes live. They've learned that there's going to be an uproar no matter what, so most of the time the lack of info in the Patch Notes is more oversight then trying to sneak something in and save themselves a few hours of uproar.
I really wish I could believe that but sadly I just don't, haha. :rolleyes:
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
I really wish I could believe that but sadly I just don't, haha. :rolleyes:
It's just common sense. A few hours difference means nothing to Cryptic. A select group of people have been raging about this for 4.5 days now. Would raging for 5 days, instead of 4.5, make any difference?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Yes, devs do listen to feedback. But if something doesn't change, it usually means that they considered the feedback, and decided it was not in line with their goals or the overall health of the game. They have the advantage of being able to see the big picture of the STO economy. Remember when they added a dilithium cost to crafting? The rage on the these forums was FAR greater then than what is in this thread. Yet, that change stayed. I think we would do well to accept it and move on. You've voiced your opinions. If they revert it, great. But I wouldn't hold my breath.
I miss the run, the waiting in front of the captain in Club 47 with dancing and other social elements, the thunder of warp jumps in earth orbit, the traffic in sector space.
All that is now gone. Its not only the EC. I lost my interest on this event. Thank you Cryptic.
Whether you call it 'exploit' or 'strategy' really doesn't matter. The reality is that there was too much EC being generated per unit time spent in the game. So they adjusted it by adding a cooldown. They could have done it in other ways, but the results would have been the same because their goal was to reduce the amount of EC that can be created. There would have been complaints no matter what. Instead of a cooldown, for example, they could have just reduced the payout to 10K per sector instead of 50K. Same complaints would have surfaced here on the forums.
Well that sure sounds like a dev response to me, not saying you are, dont worry :rolleyes:.
Altho I do suspect some pro nerf posts around here are been made by alt dev accounts.
How does EC affect getting money from players? You can't convert EC to dilithium or Zen very easily. And top end gear is mostly bind on pickup, so you can't buy it with EC anyway. Sure, you can use EC to buy ship modules and master keys, but reducing the overall EC in the economy will only serve to LOWER the prices on these items on the exchange.
You just answered your own question. All this is to make players buy more zen, then keys/fleet modules then sell them on exchange for ECs. And trust me the prices will remain the SAME, wont go LOWER at all. It will just force fp2 players to grind much more till they get an item, since the need/want situation will remain the same (basicly ppl will still need/want items of the exchange, but now will get them much harder).
Huh? You can still get EC from earning it in game. You just can't get it AS FAST. There is a difference. It is now in line with other means of earning EC.
Again a very dev-ish response :rolleyes:. You still cant see that this nerf, along with the slavers nerf and problly with more to follow are pushing the game towards asian mmo's? I've tried and played a few of those and are horrible, with massive grind and no fun at all.
What about ppl who can play for just 1-2 hours a day? The tour, when was on, since it was an event at random hours with huge time frame bettwen (there, that was the cooldown actually), was the only possible mean for some players to actually move up in the game, and i mean here do the reputation system, help by contribuiting to SB or even getting gear/ships with ECs.
Seriously, quitting over this? To each his own I guess.
And why not quit if someone has no more fun in-game? It crossed my mind too actually. In fact with these nerfs Cryptic pushed some ppl to 2 options, depending on each free time: to quit or to really start exploiting and go multi, and i mean here by hoarding 20-30 toons, since those seems are left alone and not afected by this nerf.
Ohh and another "fix for the exploit" crossed my mind. If adding the reward at the end of the tour wasnt possibble how about making it only 2-3 times a week, just by tempering with the callendar and thus making it more rare? Doing like this the EC that was generated will be much more lower and ppl would still had their fun event. It would have been a better solution for both sides.
It's just common sense. A few hours difference means nothing to Cryptic. A select group of people have been raging about this for 4.5 days now. Would raging for 5 days, instead of 4.5, make any difference?
No it wouldn't. But my point is about them not learning from their mistakes. Missing the odd thing here and there is understandable, however this patch alone had at least three things that I know of which weren't in the patch notes.
The tour nerf,
the Fix for the Risian Tribble syrup effect when taking off,
a Nerf for the Orion Slaver HP.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
No it wouldn't. But my point is about them not learning from their mistakes. Missing the odd thing here and there is understandable, however this patch alone had at least three things that I know of which weren't in the patch notes.
The tour nerf,
the Fix for the Risian Tribble syrup effect when taking off,
a Nerf for the Orion Slaver HP.
When you consider what percentage of patches, out of the 50 a year, that Cryptic puts into place which have problems, why would it be surprising that things accidentally get left out of Patch Notes too?
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
No it wouldn't. But my point is about them not learning from their mistakes. Missing the odd thing here and there is understandable, however this patch alone had at least three things that I know of which weren't in the patch notes.
The tour nerf,
the Fix for the Risian Tribble syrup effect when taking off,
a Nerf for the Orion Slaver HP.
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
thecosmic1 we have had our differences but i must give credit where credit is due and this was a great post
Whether or not people craft now is irrelevant. My use of the example was to illustrate that some decisions are done for the overall health of the game/economy/business despite the rage you see on the forums. Far greater rage back then with the dilithium in crafting debate than there is here with the Tour. Despite that, the change was still implemented.
btw, if you go to Memory alpha, you will still find some people crafting away.
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#1, as I said above, they knew they were going to TRIBBLE some people off. An extra few hours of it not being in the Patch Notes is meaningless. Whether they TRIBBLE people off at 8 at night or 11 the next morning is meaningless to Cryptic.
You are naive to the extreme if you think this was a mistake, They have been seeing what they can slip in quietly and I can assure you this is just the thin end of the wedge there will be stealth changes that no one has even picked up on because alone they mean nothing but combined with other small changes down the line they will make big differences. This is just one part of a big nerf on EC grinding and if we let it go on unchallenged then they will eventually get to something you care about!
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
There are bigger and more game breaking changes that are needed like AFK'ers in STF's but the Devs do nothing about that. However that is just an Example what people are so annoyed about is that they pay good money to play this game and the Devs only ever act on things that hurt their bottom line. Changes that players scream for to be changed and fixed go unfixed and un-noticed and it is annoying when insignificant (from the players perspective) changes like this are made.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
Just because other people may have business knowledge does not mean that the devs do not have incognito accounts that is very specious reasoning. That is like saying the Police do not need Undercover officers. Go back through the history and look at the types of nonsense threads that have been bumped or generated by members with a very small amount of posts to try and force this off the first page. Again you are showing your nativity here!
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
This is the most specious of your reasoning, I am a Moderation Administrator for a much larger and older (1995) multi gaming forum and we only have about 150'000 members. If I had to guess and having no knowledge of numbers I would have to guess that this forum can only have about (STO) 50'000 members at most and then you have to take into account duplicate accounts, old inactive accounts, then there are probably only about at most 20'000 unique active accounts on these forums. If anyone has actual numbers then feel free to dispute this guesswork. However it is not only the number of actual posts in this thread, which if my educated guesswork is right is from a lot larger of a percentage of the members than you give, it is the time in which it has generated those posts and views. On our forums we have a dedicated spam forum for members to bump up their post counts and that would struggle to make 700 posts in the time this thread has accrued posts and it is very busy indeed. Then there is the fact that this forum itself is only a percentage of actual players who play the game and I do not know what magic formulae TV companies use when measuring ratings but one person on this forum may in fact represent 20 in game, again just an arbitrary figure I am no mathematician but you can rest assured that forums I do know and 736 posts and over 18000 views in 5 days is a lot more than 1% of the member-base and is in fact a BIG! message to cryptic!
Comments
Agreed.. at 1st glance, for some strange reason, I'd worked the cooldown out as 10mins (i really have no idea why) my initial reaction was 'ok so i can still aim for 5 laps' i didn't actually have any problem with that, just seen it as a change to the system. It wasn't until someone pointed out my mistake that the frustration and angst set in.
How can you not see it wasnt an exploit???? The short version of it, with just the 4 sectors, the one that is called an exploit was no more then just a strategy, in the line of something you can do with what you got, in this case time.
If you follow Cryptic's logic, that this was an exploit, then what next? Before you know it 10% rule in Infected Space STF, MRRMLL strategy in Cure space STF or the triger lines in Infected Ground STF will soon be called exploits too:eek:.
Now there were some real exploits, like getting infinite number of doffs from reclaiming DS9 bundle pack, buying infinite number of copies of doffs from Lt. Ferra from the Academy or, in STF cases, killing Armek boss in Cure ground from a certain spot in a corner where he couldnt target you or doing Cure Space without a cooldown. Now those are (well, were actually, cuz they got fix, and i am thankfull for that) exploits, but not the route of the tour wich was just another strategy, like the STF ones mentioned earlier that are allowing us to do STFs with optionals, or even completting them for that matter, in Cure space case.
And I still stand on my opinion that this nerf has nothing to do with reducing inflation, but is just on order, problly from PWE, to get more money from players.
If they wanted ppl to do the full tour they couldve just add rewards at the end or just put a cooldown if you drop the mission.
Whether you call it 'exploit' or 'strategy' really doesn't matter. The reality is that there was too much EC being generated per unit time spent in the game. So they adjusted it by adding a cooldown. They could have done it in other ways, but the results would have been the same because their goal was to reduce the amount of EC that can be created. There would have been complaints no matter what. Instead of a cooldown, for example, they could have just reduced the payout to 10K per sector instead of 50K. Same complaints would have surfaced here on the forums.
How does EC affect getting money from players? You can't convert EC to dilithium or Zen very easily. And top end gear is mostly bind on pickup, so you can't buy it with EC anyway. Sure, you can use EC to buy ship modules and master keys, but reducing the overall EC in the economy will only serve to LOWER the prices on these items on the exchange.
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I always thought that the high availability of keys on the exchange, combined with their pretty stable price, was representative of a smooth, healthy market. If the demand for ec purchased keys is steady, then the purchase of keys with zen to sell on the exchange must also be relatively steady to facilitate this. The availability of lockbox and lobi items on the exchange may also support this premise. If this is the case, theoretically this change hurts the cash flow. The only thing i can see having any consequential effect on cash purchased zen, is dilithium, as they are an interchangeable commodity..
I may just be looking at it the wrong way though and part of me still wonders if this change was just about the ec's
Pretty sure the only way to really know will be to see it play out. I know it's too much math for my head, at least.
I too would LOVE to know of any way to earn ECs at that rate. Even loot grinding from foundry missions doesn't bring that much due to the cap.
As for the stupid cooldown, I'm just glad I used it the tour as much as I had, all this means is that I'm even less inclined to spend real money than before. And because I bought into the game with the free month when signing up (with no actual subscription since that when the game became ftp), my main character enjoys all the inventory benefits that gold members get. Since my alts came long after my free month ran out I see the differences.
Funny thing is, with the hammering of the tour plus the introduction of the Risian corvette, the one thing I was saving up for, the JHAS (which you can't simply buy) isn't worth going after any more since:
1. Now it's not the only cross faction ship with an insane turn rate
2. The only known way of earning sufficient ecs to get it off the exchange now gone meaning now you can't get it by earning in-game.
The whole game is an exploit if you really think about it. You invest time and effort and you get something for that...either a drop or advancing into next level. This logic does not make sense and only thing they want you to do is grind the last very penny out of your pocket....unacceptable :mad:
Well, they won't. Not that i wouldn't drop a penny under normal circumstances, but the whole online transactions thing is just too much for me. Plus, by how underhanded and dismissively they went about this whole thing, i'm very much less than inclined right now.
Or they could just shut down the game:(
You do realise there is not enough people in this thread who would actually do that to even effect cryptic anyway.
Seriously, quitting over this? To each his own I guess.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
+ alot to this poster they understand
I read this thread mostly for comedy relief now and just shake my head at the sense entitlement and expectation some people have and the sheer overreaction.
ohh and dont forget all the i am quitting and your not seeing a penny from me rants.
As the above poster said to each there own if you feel thats what you need to do go ahead.
Not to mention as another post mentioned people don't realize that the amount that post of the forum is a great minority to people who actually play.
I even read that people QQ refuse the tour now because they don't feel they make enough... i made this point earlier in this thread as well.
[sarcasm] ok guys we have herd you and we are not only going to revert it but the reward is going to be 100 mil a sector now.
or better yet we are announcing that once a day when you log on you will be granted the max amount of EC as a login bonus [/sarcasm]
shakes head . Yes it will take you longer but you were not supposed to make that much on the tour or as i just stated they would have had higher rewards in the first place.
I am quite happy with the game and support the patches. My only gripe is with the figgen times gates because they are the only thing slowing me down atm.
Why does the Tour of the Universe need a 4hr hour cooldown when it's a 1 hour long event???
Now see, you say that but this also highlights a major flaw with the Dev team... They don't learn from their mistakes.
We also had an uproar about the lack of mail/bank/exchange access in the Winter event and they then added that in two weeks after it launched. Surely they should have learned from that and pre-emptively added it to this event?
Or Defera, where we've been asking for those facilities plus a vendor since the day it went live and we've still never seen any of them added.
Then there's all the stealth nerfs that they continually throw at us thinking we wont notice until an hour later when uproar starts on the forums and they come in with "oh, yeah, we forgot"... The biggest issue with the game is that the Devs don't appear to learn from their past mistakes.
I really wish I could believe that but sadly I just don't, haha. :rolleyes:
Lol ... and who is left happily crafting away?
Or better yet, 'Why does the Tour of the Universe need a 4hr cooldown when it's only a 1 hour tour AND you only hold the event once every 15 hours?"
All that is now gone. Its not only the EC. I lost my interest on this event. Thank you Cryptic.
Well that sure sounds like a dev response to me, not saying you are, dont worry :rolleyes:.
Altho I do suspect some pro nerf posts around here are been made by alt dev accounts.
You just answered your own question. All this is to make players buy more zen, then keys/fleet modules then sell them on exchange for ECs. And trust me the prices will remain the SAME, wont go LOWER at all. It will just force fp2 players to grind much more till they get an item, since the need/want situation will remain the same (basicly ppl will still need/want items of the exchange, but now will get them much harder).
Again a very dev-ish response :rolleyes:. You still cant see that this nerf, along with the slavers nerf and problly with more to follow are pushing the game towards asian mmo's? I've tried and played a few of those and are horrible, with massive grind and no fun at all.
What about ppl who can play for just 1-2 hours a day? The tour, when was on, since it was an event at random hours with huge time frame bettwen (there, that was the cooldown actually), was the only possible mean for some players to actually move up in the game, and i mean here do the reputation system, help by contribuiting to SB or even getting gear/ships with ECs.
And why not quit if someone has no more fun in-game? It crossed my mind too actually. In fact with these nerfs Cryptic pushed some ppl to 2 options, depending on each free time: to quit or to really start exploiting and go multi, and i mean here by hoarding 20-30 toons, since those seems are left alone and not afected by this nerf.
Ohh and another "fix for the exploit" crossed my mind. If adding the reward at the end of the tour wasnt possibble how about making it only 2-3 times a week, just by tempering with the callendar and thus making it more rare? Doing like this the EC that was generated will be much more lower and ppl would still had their fun event. It would have been a better solution for both sides.
No it wouldn't. But my point is about them not learning from their mistakes. Missing the odd thing here and there is understandable, however this patch alone had at least three things that I know of which weren't in the patch notes.
The tour nerf,
the Fix for the Risian Tribble syrup effect when taking off,
a Nerf for the Orion Slaver HP.
SO who is the STUPID now
They knew they were going to TRIBBLE people off...the real reason why...OOOPS forgot to include in notes...whatever you do...the end game is the same....Tour was fine for over 2 years and now all of a sudden...wait exploit...LOL...just shut down the whole server since the whole game is an EXPLOIT...there is no logic in this except for those DEVs alt accounts trying to mole and argue with those vets who were doing this game since BETA....:cool:
#2, The Tour came with FTP, which is only 1.5 years old, not over 2 years. I'd also point out that they changed Dilithium rewards a few months back. How long something is ignored due to other issues doesn't mean it's not being taken advantage of by someone or not working as envisioned and so won't get fixed eventually.
#3, The Devs don't need alt accounts to talk on the forum. There are plenty of people who understand business decisions that aren't Devs. The players aren't all stereo types of living in our parents' basements and eating cereal all day. Some of us are doctors, some lawyers, some of us have MBAs and have run multi-million dollar corporations.
#4, No matter how big this thread gets, it still only represents a fraction of the fan-base. If you get 1,000 different people to agree with you, and there's 100,000 playing the game you've only manged to get 1% of the player-base to agree with you. 1% is never a majority of anything.
My character Tsin'xing
thecosmic1 we have had our differences but i must give credit where credit is due and this was a great post
100% Agree and +alot
Whether or not people craft now is irrelevant. My use of the example was to illustrate that some decisions are done for the overall health of the game/economy/business despite the rage you see on the forums. Far greater rage back then with the dilithium in crafting debate than there is here with the Tour. Despite that, the change was still implemented.
btw, if you go to Memory alpha, you will still find some people crafting away.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You are naive to the extreme if you think this was a mistake, They have been seeing what they can slip in quietly and I can assure you this is just the thin end of the wedge there will be stealth changes that no one has even picked up on because alone they mean nothing but combined with other small changes down the line they will make big differences. This is just one part of a big nerf on EC grinding and if we let it go on unchallenged then they will eventually get to something you care about!
There are bigger and more game breaking changes that are needed like AFK'ers in STF's but the Devs do nothing about that. However that is just an Example what people are so annoyed about is that they pay good money to play this game and the Devs only ever act on things that hurt their bottom line. Changes that players scream for to be changed and fixed go unfixed and un-noticed and it is annoying when insignificant (from the players perspective) changes like this are made.
Just because other people may have business knowledge does not mean that the devs do not have incognito accounts that is very specious reasoning. That is like saying the Police do not need Undercover officers. Go back through the history and look at the types of nonsense threads that have been bumped or generated by members with a very small amount of posts to try and force this off the first page. Again you are showing your nativity here!
This is the most specious of your reasoning, I am a Moderation Administrator for a much larger and older (1995) multi gaming forum and we only have about 150'000 members. If I had to guess and having no knowledge of numbers I would have to guess that this forum can only have about (STO) 50'000 members at most and then you have to take into account duplicate accounts, old inactive accounts, then there are probably only about at most 20'000 unique active accounts on these forums. If anyone has actual numbers then feel free to dispute this guesswork. However it is not only the number of actual posts in this thread, which if my educated guesswork is right is from a lot larger of a percentage of the members than you give, it is the time in which it has generated those posts and views. On our forums we have a dedicated spam forum for members to bump up their post counts and that would struggle to make 700 posts in the time this thread has accrued posts and it is very busy indeed. Then there is the fact that this forum itself is only a percentage of actual players who play the game and I do not know what magic formulae TV companies use when measuring ratings but one person on this forum may in fact represent 20 in game, again just an arbitrary figure I am no mathematician but you can rest assured that forums I do know and 736 posts and over 18000 views in 5 days is a lot more than 1% of the member-base and is in fact a BIG! message to cryptic!