Your premise is flawed, and that's also not their argument.
Some shuttles in a shuttlebay used for transportation when transporters aren't useful != a hugenormous bay full of hundreds if fighter craft. Simply put, this is not just 'small craft = carrier.' But rather "hundreds of combat fighters in a giant cavernous hold = carrer." Lets be real.
This ^
The Scorpions clearly were not for transportation, rescue, or any type of scientific mission...they were built for war...just because they didn't use the fighters doesn't mean they weren't capable. It was so obvious the Scorpions were built for war.
Shinzon didn't want Picard dead, simply put Picard was Shinzon's key to life beyond next week, sending out fighters with disruptors blazing would be very contradictory to Shinzon's goal.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The Scorpions clearly were not for transportation, rescue, or any type of scientific mission...they were built for war...just because they didn't use the fighters doesn't mean they weren't capable. It was so obvious the Scorpions were built for war.
Shinzon didn't want Picard dead, simply put Picard was Shinzon's key to life beyond next week, sending out fighters with disruptors blazing would be very contradictory to Shinzon's goal.
This is a very valid point, the way I see it is the Scimitar was clearly designed as a Carrier. Especially considering that she has so many vulnerabilities. Yes cloak helps, but lets be honest, when you are going to make a weapon with a charge up time in the several minutes mark... You need something to buy you those several minutes. Even considering that she was a powerful ship, her lack of ability to fight while remaining stationary showed a great weakness. (A ram showed more than effective)
So in short, a combat vessel with a stack of self proclaimed "Fighters" is clearly a Carrier in capability if not design.
This is a very valid point, the way I see it is the Scimitar was clearly designed as a Carrier. Especially considering that she has so many vulnerabilities. Yes cloak helps, but lets be honest, when you are going to make a weapon with a charge up time in the several minutes mark... You need something to buy you those several minutes. Even considering that she was a powerful ship, her lack of ability to fight while remaining stationary showed a great weakness. (A ram showed more than effective)
So in short, a combat vessel with a stack of self proclaimed "Fighters" is clearly a Carrier in
capability if not design.
The Scimitar comes across as a planetary-level sterilization device wrapped in enough offensive and defensive systems to take on small fleets by itself with apparent ease and without deploying Scorpion craft.
Other than Shinzon being in command and that Reman pal of his getting on Deanna Troi's badside, both of which setup a variety of dramatic-effect plot points, the ship seems to have no significant vulnerabilities.
Troi's "psychic emission guidance system for torpedoes" and Picard's "ramming speed!" plot devices are what took the Scimitar's cloak and weapons offline, respectively, paving the way for Shinzon's "I am too dumb to live, it's time to start firin' ma layzor!" ultimate attack which, given the scale of its emitters relative to the one used at the start of the movie, is probably a planetary Doomsday weapon and not an anti-shipping one. It's also entirely possible the Thalaron device can be used while cloaked.
So a carrier in potential function, maybe, but as a purpose driven design probably not.
And as for it being impotent while stationary - did you not notice the entire Bridge only acting on Shinzon's command?
The Scimitar comes across as a planetary-level sterilization device wrapped in enough offensive and defensive systems to take on small fleets by itself with apparent ease and without deploying Scorpion craft.
Other than Shinzon being in command and that Reman pal of his getting on Deanna Troi's badside, both of which setup a variety of dramatic-effect plot points, the ship seems to have no significant vulnerabilities.
Troi's "psychic emission guidance system for torpedoes" and Picard's "ramming speed!" plot devices are what took the Scimitar's cloak and weapons offline, respectively, paving the way for Shinzon's "I am too dumb to live, it's time to start firin' ma layzor!" ultimate attack which, given the scale of its emitters relative to the one used at the start of the movie, is probably a planetary Doomsday weapon and not an anti-shipping one. It's also entirely possible the Thalaron device can be used while cloaked.
So a carrier in potential function, maybe, but as a purpose driven design probably not.
And as for it being impotent while stationary - did you not notice the entire Bridge only acting on Shinzon's command?
The reason she is vulnerable while stationary, is due to her size, even the Defiant doing a ram to one of her arms while deploying her primary weapon would do significant damage. If not take that perticular system offline. Now as far as taking on entire fleets with ease. She kinda only took on three ships, two of which were late to the party and out skilled. They did seem to have the edge in firepower during the engagement even according to Shinzon's aid's reaction to the firepower the Mogai's could have endangered the ship. Now I made no mention to Troi's epic EPtAux detection hax, but lets clarify the difference between use, and capability. Now she is equiped with a massive "I Win" weapon that is substantial in charge tiime, and also seems to go solo, due to her design in being stealthy. This makes her ability to engage a real fleet limited. (Seeing as three ships was interesting, the number of fed ships waiting for her would probably have won easily) Now I would imagine it was cheaper for the studio not to have wave after wave of fighter launched from her, and her number of fighters seems to indicate that capability. Which if you have a large number of fighters that seem to be outfitted for short range engagements. Are you a carrier? The answer is yes... She is a carrier due to her obvious long range intent, and her need to stay safe (distracting an enemy with cannon fodder, which is something the movie clarifys the Remans do well) while getting into position to fire her barrage. Especially seeing that her abilities against a moving target like a fleet would be very limited due to the time it takes to ready her weapon.
Jamjamz the STO authority on ships said "dread defines her."
It should be a dreadnaught.
Now I doubt that we are using Dreadnought in the true nature of the classification of ships. Seing as Dreadnoughts were designed to use only heavy guns and barrage an enemy while staying safe due to heavy armour. Now this ship was gone almost as soon as it appeared on the battlefield due it its vulnerability to fighters and newer long range bombers. This is what actually phased out Battleships as well. But I would imagine we are using Dreadnought in the sense to define her strength in battle and emense firepower.
Now that my nerd arguement is gone, she is seeming to be a Dreadnought if not a Battleship... she does have that one big gun thing going for her.
Let the bickering over her use end, and wait to see her layout, maybe if you do not like carriers, one of the variants will not be a carrier.
Play it how you want, and if you do not like carriers, don't use the fighters.
it oculd be a dreadnought carrier..... you know, like a flight deck cruiser. a heavily armed ship with only one hanger so it doesnt really lose much firepower compared to a true 2 hanger carrier.
or go along the route of the jem hadar drreadnought carrier and be along the lines of a kick TRIBBLE carrier with more guns than normal carriers.
Now I doubt that we are using Dreadnought in the true nature of the classification of ships. Seing as Dreadnoughts were designed to use only heavy guns and barrage an enemy while staying safe due to heavy armour. Now this ship was gone almost as soon as it appeared on the battlefield due it its vulnerability to fighters and newer long range bombers. This is what actually phased out Battleships as well. But I would imagine we are using Dreadnought in the sense to define her strength in battle and emense firepower.
Now that my nerd arguement is gone, she is seeming to be a Dreadnought if not a Battleship... she does have that one big gun thing going for her.
Let the bickering over her use end, and wait to see her layout, maybe if you do not like carriers, one of the variants will not be a carrier.
Play it how you want, and if you do not like carriers, don't use the fighters.
They don't do that with packs, the only thing that is different from various ships in a pack is console slotting, Boff slots slightly when it comes to the Kumari, and sensor analysis when it comes to the Sci Bort/Oddy.
I highly doubt they would make such changes for the Scimitar pack.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
They don't do that with packs, the only thing that is different from various ships in a pack is console slotting, Boff slots slightly when it comes to the Kumari, and sensor analysis when it comes to the Sci Bort/Oddy.
I highly doubt they would make such changes for the Scimitar pack.
You are more than likely correct, but let us prevent the people here form making the Scimitar in to another Fail-X... The Fail-X is listed as a Dreadnought... and it is by far the worst ship in game. You can easily do better with a regular Galaxy...
If the people who do not wish to fly a carrier still want a Scimitar, just do not use the pets.
I can confirm as well. the Scimitar in Azure rescue has been changed to the Falchion. it is very similar to the standard scimitar, minor changes in the wings. center body is pretty different. like balordezul said, spiky.
Also has an aegis kit type lines going through the body, though they're white. maybe a special material.
I think I'mma cry if it's a carrier. Still, the name alludes to nothing of such. It says DREADNAUGHT WARBIRD. I see no carrier, of any kind, in the name. I highly doubt this things cup of tea will be fighters. I can see a flight deck. But a full on carrier? Nuh-uh, not happening. I'll be amazed if theres even two hangers.
As for the cloaking device, thats a bit more interesting. Cloak isn't the uber kill machine that people think it is. I think, a good way to balance this, is give it a battle-cloak that can hold shields, and fire weapons, and only energy weapons. Now, hold shields doesn't mean recharge. If it cloaks, set shield power too 5. That way it holds it's shields, but the shields are glass and won't recharge unless powers are used. Fireing energy weapons will work if you give it even a two or one second uncloak timer. This will allow for movie like sneak attacks, but will keep you from just fighting from cloak over and over again. Also, I can't see the cloak being perfect. Your gonna have issues from all the anti-cloaking powers, science pilots, and the sheer size of the ship. The consoles can even give it these powers.
Aside from that, anything should be speculation, like weapon layout and turn rate we'll probably see later today.. Or for all we know, these won't be the flagships, and we'll get something completely new. That'd be pretty cool.
I AM THE HARBINGER OF HOPE!
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
Devs have already said the Scimitar isn't going to be the flagship. Seriously, why are people still on about this? Also, there are screenshots of fighter pets (drone ships) on Tribble that require a Scimitar/Falchion/Tulwar Dreadnought Warbird, much like the Stalker fighters require an Atrox and the Jem'Hadar fighters require one of the Jem'Hadar ships. To the best of my knowledge, ships with a single flight deck don't have a specific fighter type that can only be used with that ship. Only carriers do. Ergo, stands to reason that, because of this and that Romulans don't have a carrier yet, the Scimitar is going to be a carrier.
I am probably going to take a break until they release it, I am just getting too bored with the game. I hope it does not suck like most of the Romulan ships.
looking forward to having a romulan carrier at long last since that is the one thing the romulans are missing at the moment I believe that the scimitar pack will be a epic ship grouping if used right.
Devs have already said the Scimitar isn't going to be the flagship. Seriously, why are people still on about this? Also, there are screenshots of fighter pets (drone ships) on Tribble that require a Scimitar/Falchion/Tulwar Dreadnought Warbird, much like the Stalker fighters require an Atrox and the Jem'Hadar fighters require one of the Jem'Hadar ships. To the best of my knowledge, ships with a single flight deck don't have a specific fighter type that can only be used with that ship. Only carriers do. Ergo, stands to reason that, because of this and that Romulans don't have a carrier yet, the Scimitar is going to be a carrier.
The Karfi carrier has only one hangar I think.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
I really want to like the new Scimitar ships but I have to say after seeing the Falchion I'm really disappointed in the quality of the model.
There just seems to be an overall lack of depth to the model and the texture is atrocious , overall it looks like a flat brick with wings attached.
I really hope they take another look at the models and improve on them to make them worthy of being classed as Romulan dreadnaughts.
Right now if I bought one I'd probably be buying it for the stats and the movie reference but not for the looks and that makes me one sad Romulan.:(:(
I think I'mma cry if it's a carrier. Still, the name alludes to nothing of such. It says DREADNAUGHT WARBIRD. I see no carrier, of any kind, in the name. I highly doubt this things cup of tea will be fighters. I can see a flight deck. But a full on carrier? Nuh-uh, not happening. I'll be amazed if theres even two hangers.
As for the cloaking device, thats a bit more interesting. Cloak isn't the uber kill machine that people think it is. I think, a good way to balance this, is give it a battle-cloak that can hold shields, and fire weapons, and only energy weapons. Now, hold shields doesn't mean recharge. If it cloaks, set shield power too 5. That way it holds it's shields, but the shields are glass and won't recharge unless powers are used. Fireing energy weapons will work if you give it even a two or one second uncloak timer. This will allow for movie like sneak attacks, but will keep you from just fighting from cloak over and over again. Also, I can't see the cloak being perfect. Your gonna have issues from all the anti-cloaking powers, science pilots, and the sheer size of the ship. The consoles can even give it these powers.
Aside from that, anything should be speculation, like weapon layout and turn rate we'll probably see later today.. Or for all we know, these won't be the flagships, and we'll get something completely new. That'd be pretty cool.
I'm fairly certain that it is going to be a full carrier. As was said already, specific frigates and frigates in general cannot be used by single hanger carriers. If there is a specific frigate for the Scimitar/Tulwar/Falchion it does stand to reason (as aveimperator said)
that it will be a full carrier.
I'd love to see some type of "perfect cloak" mechanic that allows weapons to be fired in while cloaked, but how if at all the Devs can pull this off remains to be seen.
I'm also TRUELY hoping that they pull off a secondary shielding mechanic, it would be a pretty cool new feature if they do it correctly.
EDIT:
Also unless you know something on the sly, we will probably not be seeing anything about the Scimitars today. We probably won't see anything until Tuesday at the earliest (as much as I don't want that to be the case).
Its going to be a dreadnought carrier ala jem'hadar dreadnought carrier. I don't see the big deal about it being both a carrier and a dreadnought.It should be fun ship I'm thinking if they are going to make perfect cloak they are going to use the singularity core to balance it.
Along with secondary shields being linked to singularity core and thalaron blast. well hopefully thalaron weapons that unfurls the wings and gives us a strong charged cone attack.
Not as strong as the npc version however.
It better have battle cloak like all warbird. Obisek can use thalarons why can't the player he is allied to the republic. Its not like every captain in the republic nessacarly has to honor the treaty...
Thank you for the pics of the new model. I thought the scimitar looked like a giant bat in a way. This thing reminds me of a giant vampire moth lol. It's interesting and I see potential with some of the ship sets. Now in my eagerness for a big, fun, ship, (and that doesn't mean OP to the guy that thought it upon reading) if I could just figure out the stats...
Yeah - if you say so. Because big monster ship MUST, by default, = 'I win'.
I suspect that, even if it's OP (and it probably will be) it's still not going to be quite as 'I win' as some of who purchase it are hoping it will be.
Lol. "Why am I dieing so much and why am I not doing much damage? I put universal consoles in every last slot, I should be winning more!"
Finished or not, I have a feeling they are going to hold it reserve until the server population slows down, as they are wasting DEV time with this summer TRIBBLE next week. It may be 2-3 more months till we see the Scimitar.
So for me, I am on a personal CSTORE/KEY STRIKE until it is released, I encourage everyone else to do the same. IMO it should have been released with Romulus, so many people wasted good money on that total piece of TRIBBLE D'Deridex.
Comments
This ^
The Scorpions clearly were not for transportation, rescue, or any type of scientific mission...they were built for war...just because they didn't use the fighters doesn't mean they weren't capable. It was so obvious the Scorpions were built for war.
Shinzon didn't want Picard dead, simply put Picard was Shinzon's key to life beyond next week, sending out fighters with disruptors blazing would be very contradictory to Shinzon's goal.
This is a very valid point, the way I see it is the Scimitar was clearly designed as a Carrier. Especially considering that she has so many vulnerabilities. Yes cloak helps, but lets be honest, when you are going to make a weapon with a charge up time in the several minutes mark... You need something to buy you those several minutes. Even considering that she was a powerful ship, her lack of ability to fight while remaining stationary showed a great weakness. (A ram showed more than effective)
So in short, a combat vessel with a stack of self proclaimed "Fighters" is clearly a Carrier in capability if not design.
The Scimitar comes across as a planetary-level sterilization device wrapped in enough offensive and defensive systems to take on small fleets by itself with apparent ease and without deploying Scorpion craft.
Other than Shinzon being in command and that Reman pal of his getting on Deanna Troi's badside, both of which setup a variety of dramatic-effect plot points, the ship seems to have no significant vulnerabilities.
Troi's "psychic emission guidance system for torpedoes" and Picard's "ramming speed!" plot devices are what took the Scimitar's cloak and weapons offline, respectively, paving the way for Shinzon's "I am too dumb to live, it's time to start firin' ma layzor!" ultimate attack which, given the scale of its emitters relative to the one used at the start of the movie, is probably a planetary Doomsday weapon and not an anti-shipping one. It's also entirely possible the Thalaron device can be used while cloaked.
So a carrier in potential function, maybe, but as a purpose driven design probably not.
And as for it being impotent while stationary - did you not notice the entire Bridge only acting on Shinzon's command?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It should be a dreadnaught.
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It's a Dreadnought Class Carrier Warbird!
But IG it's looking like they are just calling it a Dreadnought Warbird.
The reason she is vulnerable while stationary, is due to her size, even the Defiant doing a ram to one of her arms while deploying her primary weapon would do significant damage. If not take that perticular system offline. Now as far as taking on entire fleets with ease. She kinda only took on three ships, two of which were late to the party and out skilled. They did seem to have the edge in firepower during the engagement even according to Shinzon's aid's reaction to the firepower the Mogai's could have endangered the ship. Now I made no mention to Troi's epic EPtAux detection hax, but lets clarify the difference between use, and capability. Now she is equiped with a massive "I Win" weapon that is substantial in charge tiime, and also seems to go solo, due to her design in being stealthy. This makes her ability to engage a real fleet limited. (Seeing as three ships was interesting, the number of fed ships waiting for her would probably have won easily) Now I would imagine it was cheaper for the studio not to have wave after wave of fighter launched from her, and her number of fighters seems to indicate that capability. Which if you have a large number of fighters that seem to be outfitted for short range engagements. Are you a carrier? The answer is yes... She is a carrier due to her obvious long range intent, and her need to stay safe (distracting an enemy with cannon fodder, which is something the movie clarifys the Remans do well) while getting into position to fire her barrage. Especially seeing that her abilities against a moving target like a fleet would be very limited due to the time it takes to ready her weapon.
Now I doubt that we are using Dreadnought in the true nature of the classification of ships. Seing as Dreadnoughts were designed to use only heavy guns and barrage an enemy while staying safe due to heavy armour. Now this ship was gone almost as soon as it appeared on the battlefield due it its vulnerability to fighters and newer long range bombers. This is what actually phased out Battleships as well. But I would imagine we are using Dreadnought in the sense to define her strength in battle and emense firepower.
Now that my nerd arguement is gone, she is seeming to be a Dreadnought if not a Battleship... she does have that one big gun thing going for her.
Let the bickering over her use end, and wait to see her layout, maybe if you do not like carriers, one of the variants will not be a carrier.
Play it how you want, and if you do not like carriers, don't use the fighters.
or go along the route of the jem hadar drreadnought carrier and be along the lines of a kick TRIBBLE carrier with more guns than normal carriers.
They don't do that with packs, the only thing that is different from various ships in a pack is console slotting, Boff slots slightly when it comes to the Kumari, and sensor analysis when it comes to the Sci Bort/Oddy.
I highly doubt they would make such changes for the Scimitar pack.
You are more than likely correct, but let us prevent the people here form making the Scimitar in to another Fail-X... The Fail-X is listed as a Dreadnought... and it is by far the worst ship in game. You can easily do better with a regular Galaxy...
If the people who do not wish to fly a carrier still want a Scimitar, just do not use the pets.
Pics? Video?
I'm not near my gaming computer for a while, I'd love to see it if you can
Also has an aegis kit type lines going through the body, though they're white. maybe a special material.
Check out the Leahval or whatever Sela's Scimitar is called on google.
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Bottom view
Top view
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As for the cloaking device, thats a bit more interesting. Cloak isn't the uber kill machine that people think it is. I think, a good way to balance this, is give it a battle-cloak that can hold shields, and fire weapons, and only energy weapons. Now, hold shields doesn't mean recharge. If it cloaks, set shield power too 5. That way it holds it's shields, but the shields are glass and won't recharge unless powers are used. Fireing energy weapons will work if you give it even a two or one second uncloak timer. This will allow for movie like sneak attacks, but will keep you from just fighting from cloak over and over again. Also, I can't see the cloak being perfect. Your gonna have issues from all the anti-cloaking powers, science pilots, and the sheer size of the ship. The consoles can even give it these powers.
Aside from that, anything should be speculation, like weapon layout and turn rate we'll probably see later today.. Or for all we know, these won't be the flagships, and we'll get something completely new. That'd be pretty cool.
I AM THE SWORD OF THE RIGHTOUS!
The Karfi carrier has only one hangar I think.
Nope, Kar'Fi definitely has two. I fly that ship on my KDF main.
There just seems to be an overall lack of depth to the model and the texture is atrocious , overall it looks like a flat brick with wings attached.
I really hope they take another look at the models and improve on them to make them worthy of being classed as Romulan dreadnaughts.
Right now if I bought one I'd probably be buying it for the stats and the movie reference but not for the looks and that makes me one sad Romulan.:(:(
I'm fairly certain that it is going to be a full carrier. As was said already, specific frigates and frigates in general cannot be used by single hanger carriers. If there is a specific frigate for the Scimitar/Tulwar/Falchion it does stand to reason (as aveimperator said)
that it will be a full carrier.
I'd love to see some type of "perfect cloak" mechanic that allows weapons to be fired in while cloaked, but how if at all the Devs can pull this off remains to be seen.
I'm also TRUELY hoping that they pull off a secondary shielding mechanic, it would be a pretty cool new feature if they do it correctly.
EDIT:
Also unless you know something on the sly, we will probably not be seeing anything about the Scimitars today. We probably won't see anything until Tuesday at the earliest (as much as I don't want that to be the case).
Along with secondary shields being linked to singularity core and thalaron blast. well hopefully thalaron weapons that unfurls the wings and gives us a strong charged cone attack.
Not as strong as the npc version however.
It better have battle cloak like all warbird. Obisek can use thalarons why can't the player he is allied to the republic. Its not like every captain in the republic nessacarly has to honor the treaty...
Thank you for the pics of the new model. I thought the scimitar looked like a giant bat in a way. This thing reminds me of a giant vampire moth lol. It's interesting and I see potential with some of the ship sets. Now in my eagerness for a big, fun, ship, (and that doesn't mean OP to the guy that thought it upon reading) if I could just figure out the stats...
That is old as sin. This is certainly NOT any new ship. It's a variant of the old Scimitar that has been in the game since launch
Lol. "Why am I dieing so much and why am I not doing much damage? I put universal consoles in every last slot, I should be winning more!"
It was buffed and given a second hangar in Season 4 from what I understand. Did it have Fer'jai frigates back when it was single hangar?
So for me, I am on a personal CSTORE/KEY STRIKE until it is released, I encourage everyone else to do the same. IMO it should have been released with Romulus, so many people wasted good money on that total piece of TRIBBLE D'Deridex.