The problem is the game also states Starfleet is deploying Cloaking tech on the description of the Cloaking Device.
Also why would you as a Federation Officer following the rules laid down by the Federation be buying technology off the Black Market that is in direct Opposition to what your Government wants?
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
i don't know if he did or not, but you apparently didn't pay attention to the game's lore
straight from The path to 2409: Volume 16, Chapter 2:
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
so yes, there IS in fact a reason why the federation can't have cloaks
It's not like one president says one thing then the next decides to do the opposite never happens. Oh wait it happens quite often in politics. Unless in the game it is specified that cloaking technology will not be used by the federation and none available then the position stands that they can use it. Anyway it is a moot point with 2 ships having cloaking technology anyway and arguing that feds cant have it is like saying squirrels are not allowed fluffy tails.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
ALL OF U PEOPLE ARE MISSING A POINT! The Feds don't directly have a cloaking device. BUT, certain arms dealers can sell you one(for a price) without telling u where they got it from in DS9, so the issue of it not being on the series is out the window. Plus more DS9 episodes prove that cloaking devices are compatible with most ship designs, so compatability isn't an issue. Also, since starfleet didn't make it or know where it came from, it respects whatever old or new treaty in place with Romulus. Now, I m not saying make it come standard on all ships in the galaxy, just make a regular cloak, not a battle or attack cloak, that has a recharge period so people don't go insane with it, that is buyable through some black market dealer so that it is more equal for everyone who is a fed or uses an alien ship.
1) NO to cloak for all ships, we dont need all ships cloaking, it's annoying enough if all klings and now roms do - too many cloakers just ruin the gameplay IMO! And ships like the Galor, Chel Grett and most of the fed ships are just not built for cloaking
2) I think that the cloak for the fed ships that ARE built to cloak (Gal-X, Defiant, ((Mirror-)Typhoon Battleship - hopefully seen in the future as a playable vessel) should get integrated cloaking systems
No, not all fed ships need cloak, the only thing that needs to be done, is to give the Galaxy Dreadnought and the Fleet/Tac Escort Retro an innate cloak. It's absolutely TRIBBLE that these were made as consoles. It's unnecessary and idiotic.
You want then to be 8 console ships so they get the lame one-trick pony build-in?
Insane? why? ALL Romulan and most of the Klingon ships have inbuilt (Battle) Cloak (I can already see the Kligons ranting about that "Ugh we want a 5 Tac Console Raptor" :P), BUT i don't see the point why we feds are wasting a console slot if we want to cloak - as i said - the Roms have integrated BATTLE cloaks (altough i must admit the Klingon ships are a bit at a disadvantage, but the BoPs need to get improved anyways yet with the T'Varo Retrofit-Advanced Battle Cloak).
No, not all fed ships need cloak, the only thing that needs to be done, is to give the Galaxy Dreadnought and the Fleet/Tac Escort Retro an innate cloak. It's absolutely TRIBBLE that these were made as consoles. It's unnecessary and idiotic.
You do realize, at one point long ago they did have an innate cloak - but they also had 8 consoles. So the devs bumped up the consoles to 9 and made the cloak into a console so you had more flexibility.
You do realize, at one point long ago they did have an innate cloak - but they also had 8 consoles. So the devs bumped up the consoles to 9 and made the cloak into a console so you had more flexibility.
That's too long ago to be a good argument, there are 10 console ships with integrated (battle) cloaks now (as to read in one of my previous posts in this thread), especially the Rom ships have the advantage of 10 consoles and an integrated BATTLE Cloak (I just say Fleet Ha'feh = (integrated!) battle cloaking Defiant!!)
Edit: The fleet Ha'feh even has 0.99 shield mod compared to 0.9 of the Defiant and 1.1k more hull at the cost of some inertia rating (i personally don't give a sh** on)
Edit 2: and i forgot it doesn't have the useless 3rd ensign tac and an ensign eng instead, AND a universal LTC to give the possibility to make it more tanky
I lost track of what ur talking about, all that we need is for a limited battle cloak to be available as a shield so it's more fun for us who use different ships not from Klingons or Romulans.
I lost track of what ur talking about, all that we need is for a limited battle cloak to be available as a shield so it's more fun for us who use different ships not from Klingons or Romulans.
I don't really get your point, you want a cloak as a replacement for the ship's shields?
Having a cloak instead of a shield still gives the Romulans and Klingons the advantage with integrated cloaks, but it still allows people with alien ships to cloak.
Because the only reason you have 9 consoles on those ships is because when they changed those abilities to consoles they added a extra slot.
Guess what? IF they make it a build-in ability again the ship would lose a console slot since it only got it in the first place because it was made into a console.
You want for me to start to post stats differences?
Cloak is a joke or rather its a "do it once" ability because as long there is a [RED ALERT] you cannot cloak again, its ability of very dubious use.
You will wasting it either way YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET CLOAK BUILD-IN ON A NINE CONSOLE FEDERATION SHIP, they originally had 8 console slots ships, the 9th was added when it was turned into a console.
So pick ... build-in cloak and 8 consoles or cloak console and 9 consoles, YOU CANNOT HAVE BOTH!
The argument with 8 consoles inbuilt cloak is BS since there are Fleet Ships and LoR, and the normal cloak is useful for the dmg bonus, while battle cloaking while in combat mostly gets you killed (especially in PvP). And why pick, klings and roms HAVE BOTH 10 consoles and cloak (it seems you don't get my point). The cloaking device is OUTDATED!
according to the treaty of algeron. the federation is not to use or to make any kind of cloaking
device... but, since that treaty was with the romulan empire since it's destruction. who knows.
Cloak is a joke or rather its a "do it once" ability because as long there is a [RED ALERT] you cannot cloak again, its ability of very dubious use.
This right here! If thats what the feds get because they have 2 ships with it already KDF would have nothing to complain about. I dont understand why they are so against it since we have Romulans with a battle cloak so it cannot be a balance issue. Give the feds the crappy cloak and no more dead horse beatings.
I have the Fleet tac escort and the cloak from the C-store defiant... Well I should say HAD the cloak because i deleted it from inventory. Other consoles are far more usefull than it was considering once in combat the console was just taking a slot and not helping. If some feds want it on some other ship.. well let them because that cloak just took a spot that a better console could be in giving an advantage to KDF.
The only cloak feds should not have access to is a battle cloak.
As for the argument that it doesnt fit the fed style... What about scientific mission studying pre-warp cultures that have telescopes? A normal cloak would allow the fed ship to aproach the planet and study them without being detected Kinda like Data had a suit that cloaked him while he and other scientists were studying what they thought was a pre-warp civilization. boy were they surprised when Data lost his marbles and started shooting the place up. So yes federation could have a valid use for cloaking technology besides combat.
according to the treaty of algeron. the federation is not to use or to make any kind of cloaking
device... but, since that treaty was with the romulan empire since it's destruction. who knows.
be kind...
Please read some of page 24 about that treaty as well as Memory Alpha's page on it. It is no longer valid and Empress Sella's resurrected Romulan Empire is not recognized. The treaty has to do with the romulan nuetral zone first and the feds don' worry about crossing that space anymore so proof that the treaty is dead right there.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Please read some of page 24 about that treaty as well as Memory Alpha's page on it. It is no longer valid and Empress Sella's resurrected Romulan Empire is not recognized. The treaty has to do with the romulan nuetral zone first and the feds don' worry about crossing that space anymore so proof that the treaty is dead right there.
As was pointed out above, on page 24, in STO history the President of the Federation stated they would keep honoring the treaty so-as to avoid conflict with the Romulan remnants. In that instance Memory Alpha is wrong - which is why they don't focus on non-canon things.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
As was pointed out above, on page 24, in STO history the President of the Federation stated they would keep honoring the treaty so-as to avoid conflict with the Romulan remnants. In that instance Memory Alpha is wrong - which is why they don't focus on non-canon things.
Then please feel free to explain the main part of the treaty being the romulan Nuetral zone and how that no longer applies. Explain why every Romulan Empire ship better known as Tal Shiar are attacked on site by the federation. Explain how that treaty stands when the federation have 2 ships with cloaking device, 1 was completely against the treaty. Please explain these things because they say the treaty is null an void.
Just because there is a history lesson and something some past president said once does NOT mean it applies still. Does everything a president decide by executive order from Washington all the way to Bush Jr. still stand? No, laws get changed, executive orders can be dropped in the same term, blocked by the courts, many other reasons. Just because it kinda sorta fits in what YOU want does not make it true, The treaty is flat out ignored INCLUDING CLOAKING DEVICES!!!! which says that you are full of it just trying to make it fit your own ideas.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
only 16% of players play KDF , plus some kdf rommies ....
so max 25% of players is KDF sided ........
try visit Kerrat , try any random encounter , try borg invasion
always same thing .... 1 klingon against 5+ feddies , at Kerrat usualy 1 klingon against 10 feddies
only our better ships and cloaking technology makes something like balance
so if FED need cloak 2 win is IMHO bad player
u aready have 2 ships WITH cloak , dammit , if u re too bad player for kill someone WITHOUT cloak , buy one
I if i m at Kerrat alone and meet lone FED often decloak 10 km from him and give him first shot , he have fair chance kill me
but i mostly find 5+ FEDS in a group and ther dont fight fair :-) , no chance to 1 vs 1 duel , so only alpha strike left ......
edit :
btw ...i aready make small test few days ago
i was with one low level KDF char with QulDun Bird-of-Prey at Kerrat ....and of course usual party , 3 kdf against 8 feds , but even that i kill several Feds
then i switch to my Fed char , level 15 sci with Nova class , almost without consoles and basic white stuff (guns . shields ) and enter kerrat
in 9 from 10 attempts i survive alpha strike (once get KDF big help from borgs ) and then with TRIBBLE stuff kill Kllingon , sometimes with help from others Feds , sometimes alone
so i can play as FED when i want and WITHOUT cloak .....
I don't see Feds getting more cloaking ships, but I can see something like a chameleon device that allows cruisers to look like a non-threatening ship or a cloak breaker for Sci ships. Only the VA Defiant and gal X need cloaking and maybe give a phase cloak to a faction neutral ship in the future or a Romulan ship.
Then please feel free to explain the main part of the treaty being the romulan Nuetral zone and how that no longer applies. Explain why every Romulan Empire ship better known as Tal Shiar are attacked on site by the federation. Explain how that treaty stands when the federation have 2 ships with cloaking device, 1 was completely against the treaty. Please explain these things because they say the treaty is null an void.
Why do the Defiant and Galaxy X have cloaks? Because they had them in canon. That's really all there is to it. Why don't the rest of the Fed ships have cloaks? Because they didn't in canon - where said Treaty of Algeron expressly forbid the Federation from developing them. Within the confines of this game the only Fed ships to have cloaks are the ones that did so in canon - and one of them had a cloak given to them by the Romulan Star Empire and the other is from an alternate timeline.
As far as the Treaty in STO, we have a specific statement that the Federation won't abolish the Treaty, no matter what our relationship is with the current Romulan command - and that Treaty includes the statement that the Federation won't develop cloaking technology; thus the whole Pegasus incident. Nowhere does it state a Fed president at a later date overturned that statement - thus we don't see every other Fed ship now using cloaks. That's all there is to it.
The game is trying to give you some semblance of Trek canon - no matter how convoluted said canon has been over 5 decades.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
Roll a Romulan, join the Federation. Congratulations you now have cloaking devices.
I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why. When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
The argument with 8 consoles inbuilt cloak is BS since there are Fleet Ships and LoR, and the normal cloak is useful for the dmg bonus, while battle cloaking while in combat mostly gets you killed (especially in PvP). And why pick, klings and roms HAVE BOTH 10 consoles and cloak (it seems you don't get my point). The cloaking device is OUTDATED!
The cloaking device is not outdated. The way cloaking is implemented in the game by Cryptic is.
Comments
Also why would you as a Federation Officer following the rules laid down by the Federation be buying technology off the Black Market that is in direct Opposition to what your Government wants?
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
It's not like one president says one thing then the next decides to do the opposite never happens. Oh wait it happens quite often in politics. Unless in the game it is specified that cloaking technology will not be used by the federation and none available then the position stands that they can use it. Anyway it is a moot point with 2 ships having cloaking technology anyway and arguing that feds cant have it is like saying squirrels are not allowed fluffy tails.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Romulans use Theta Radiation. Klingons use bio neural warheads.
Tricobalts create subspace tears.
Feds should have full access to cloaking technology.
That treaty has long since been rendered null and void.
/kick dead_horse
2) I think that the cloak for the fed ships that ARE built to cloak (Gal-X, Defiant, ((Mirror-)Typhoon Battleship - hopefully seen in the future as a playable vessel) should get integrated cloaking systems
Insane? why? ALL Romulan and most of the Klingon ships have inbuilt (Battle) Cloak (I can already see the Kligons ranting about that "Ugh we want a 5 Tac Console Raptor" :P), BUT i don't see the point why we feds are wasting a console slot if we want to cloak - as i said - the Roms have integrated BATTLE cloaks (altough i must admit the Klingon ships are a bit at a disadvantage, but the BoPs need to get improved anyways yet with the T'Varo Retrofit-Advanced Battle Cloak).
You do realize, at one point long ago they did have an innate cloak - but they also had 8 consoles. So the devs bumped up the consoles to 9 and made the cloak into a console so you had more flexibility.
That's too long ago to be a good argument, there are 10 console ships with integrated (battle) cloaks now (as to read in one of my previous posts in this thread), especially the Rom ships have the advantage of 10 consoles and an integrated BATTLE Cloak (I just say Fleet Ha'feh = (integrated!) battle cloaking Defiant!!)
Edit: The fleet Ha'feh even has 0.99 shield mod compared to 0.9 of the Defiant and 1.1k more hull at the cost of some inertia rating (i personally don't give a sh** on)
Edit 2: and i forgot it doesn't have the useless 3rd ensign tac and an ensign eng instead, AND a universal LTC to give the possibility to make it more tanky
I don't really get your point, you want a cloak as a replacement for the ship's shields?
STOP! STOP! It's already dead...
The argument with 8 consoles inbuilt cloak is BS since there are Fleet Ships and LoR, and the normal cloak is useful for the dmg bonus, while battle cloaking while in combat mostly gets you killed (especially in PvP). And why pick, klings and roms HAVE BOTH 10 consoles and cloak (it seems you don't get my point). The cloaking device is OUTDATED!
according to the treaty of algeron. the federation is not to use or to make any kind of cloaking
device... but, since that treaty was with the romulan empire since it's destruction. who knows.
be kind...
This right here! If thats what the feds get because they have 2 ships with it already KDF would have nothing to complain about. I dont understand why they are so against it since we have Romulans with a battle cloak so it cannot be a balance issue. Give the feds the crappy cloak and no more dead horse beatings.
I have the Fleet tac escort and the cloak from the C-store defiant... Well I should say HAD the cloak because i deleted it from inventory. Other consoles are far more usefull than it was considering once in combat the console was just taking a slot and not helping. If some feds want it on some other ship.. well let them because that cloak just took a spot that a better console could be in giving an advantage to KDF.
The only cloak feds should not have access to is a battle cloak.
As for the argument that it doesnt fit the fed style... What about scientific mission studying pre-warp cultures that have telescopes? A normal cloak would allow the fed ship to aproach the planet and study them without being detected Kinda like Data had a suit that cloaked him while he and other scientists were studying what they thought was a pre-warp civilization. boy were they surprised when Data lost his marbles and started shooting the place up. So yes federation could have a valid use for cloaking technology besides combat.
Please read some of page 24 about that treaty as well as Memory Alpha's page on it. It is no longer valid and Empress Sella's resurrected Romulan Empire is not recognized. The treaty has to do with the romulan nuetral zone first and the feds don' worry about crossing that space anymore so proof that the treaty is dead right there.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
Then please feel free to explain the main part of the treaty being the romulan Nuetral zone and how that no longer applies. Explain why every Romulan Empire ship better known as Tal Shiar are attacked on site by the federation. Explain how that treaty stands when the federation have 2 ships with cloaking device, 1 was completely against the treaty. Please explain these things because they say the treaty is null an void.
Just because there is a history lesson and something some past president said once does NOT mean it applies still. Does everything a president decide by executive order from Washington all the way to Bush Jr. still stand? No, laws get changed, executive orders can be dropped in the same term, blocked by the courts, many other reasons. Just because it kinda sorta fits in what YOU want does not make it true, The treaty is flat out ignored INCLUDING CLOAKING DEVICES!!!! which says that you are full of it just trying to make it fit your own ideas.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
T1, Standard Cloak Console
T3, Battle Cloak Console
T4, Enhanced Battle Cloak Console
I mean we now have weapons with a proc to ignore shields, so what the heck
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Nah, we don't need EVERY ship cloaking, that ruins the Game IMO.
To the elachi weapons: i agree with "what the heck" :P
only 16% of players play KDF , plus some kdf rommies ....
so max 25% of players is KDF sided ........
try visit Kerrat , try any random encounter , try borg invasion
always same thing .... 1 klingon against 5+ feddies , at Kerrat usualy 1 klingon against 10 feddies
only our better ships and cloaking technology makes something like balance
so if FED need cloak 2 win is IMHO bad player
u aready have 2 ships WITH cloak , dammit , if u re too bad player for kill someone WITHOUT cloak , buy one
I if i m at Kerrat alone and meet lone FED often decloak 10 km from him and give him first shot , he have fair chance kill me
but i mostly find 5+ FEDS in a group and ther dont fight fair :-) , no chance to 1 vs 1 duel , so only alpha strike left ......
edit :
btw ...i aready make small test few days ago
i was with one low level KDF char with QulDun Bird-of-Prey at Kerrat ....and of course usual party , 3 kdf against 8 feds , but even that i kill several Feds
then i switch to my Fed char , level 15 sci with Nova class , almost without consoles and basic white stuff (guns . shields ) and enter kerrat
in 9 from 10 attempts i survive alpha strike (once get KDF big help from borgs ) and then with TRIBBLE stuff kill Kllingon , sometimes with help from others Feds , sometimes alone
so i can play as FED when i want and WITHOUT cloak .....
As far as the Treaty in STO, we have a specific statement that the Federation won't abolish the Treaty, no matter what our relationship is with the current Romulan command - and that Treaty includes the statement that the Federation won't develop cloaking technology; thus the whole Pegasus incident. Nowhere does it state a Fed president at a later date overturned that statement - thus we don't see every other Fed ship now using cloaks. That's all there is to it.
The game is trying to give you some semblance of Trek canon - no matter how convoluted said canon has been over 5 decades.
If I ask you a question it is not an insult but a genuine attempt to understand why.
When I insult you I won't be discreet about it, I will be precise and to the point stupid.
The cloaking device is not outdated. The way cloaking is implemented in the game by Cryptic is.