I can debate if I want, but this subject (and pretty much everything else Federation players bring up) is a dead horse that's been beaten for years. At this point I just satiate my annoyance by flinging mud at the Federation faction. It's nothing too personal, I'm just tired of the imbalance and preferential treatment.
With the release of the romulan faction it is only going to get worse for kdf. So there might as well be somebody with a cloak. Hell the romulans are pretty much a fed/kdf hybrid as far as ships go.
then what do you think is going to happen with the romulans now? It's just been announced they're not a faction but join the Feds or KDF factions. If the KDF faction is as bad as people make it out to be, then why would the romulans join? Will this imbalance things even further for the KDF? If the Romulans bring Cloaking beyond the basic version, how will that effect players?
That is indeed a concern amongst some KDF players, that this will just imbalance things further because this will be a way for Federation players to get a cloak without having to grub with us smelly Klingons. There's some concerns that the balance will be shifted towards Fed-Rom due to the content the Federation has, their slight edge in starbase maturity (more fleets at Tier 5), and the general numbers the faction has.
I don't know how it will turn out. I'm waiting and watching this whole thing unfold. I'll be returning to the game itself in May (currently on a hiatus from it) to play the new content that's come out over 4-5 months.
As to how cloaks will affect PvP between KDF and Fed-Roms. . .I think we KDF will just have to start carrying around countermeasures against cloaks The aceton assimilators ought to help with that.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
It seems a compromise has been reached now. You Feds get your cloaking device, but you'll have to roll a Romulan to do it. I see this as a win-win personally. KDF gets to maintain their unique difference from the Feds, and I don't have to watch the ridiculousness of a Odyssey cloaking and decloaking in a STF.
It looks like the new faction is shaping up to be an underdog faction like the KDF is. I encourage all the Feds in this thread begging for cloaks to play as a Romulan. Maybe once you spend the majority of your time playing a faction that doesn't have much, you'll come to enjoy the unique things it does offer, and will understand the desire to preserve your uniqueness from those that'd rather have everything available to everyone. Having everything available to everyone pretty much negates the entire philosophy behind separate factions to begin with.
It seems a compromise has been reached now. You Feds get your cloaking device, but you'll have to roll a Romulan to do it. I see this as a win-win personally. KDF gets to maintain their unique difference from the Feds, and I don't have to watch the ridiculousness of a Odyssey cloaking and decloaking in a STF.
It looks like the new faction is shaping up to be an underdog faction like the KDF is. I encourage all the Feds in this thread begging for cloaks to play as a Romulan. Maybe once you spend the majority of your time playing a faction that doesn't have much, you'll come to enjoy the unique things it does offer, and will understand the desire to preserve your uniqueness from those that'd rather have everything available to everyone. Having everything available to everyone pretty much negates the entire philosophy behind separate factions to begin with.
Indeed, that's sorta been my response most of the time. Want battlecruisers that dish out damage? Roll KDF. Want frigate pets on carriers? Roll KDF. Want battlecloaks? Roll KDF.
The reverse is true for KDF players, as well. If we want better DPSing and turning escorts, we play a Fed. If we want SCIENCE SHIPS, we play Fed. If we want to fly a cruiser primarily dedicated towards tanking and outgoing healing, we play Fed.
Factional differences exist for a reason, and I'm sick and tired of Federation players advocating that they be watered down because they can't be arsed to fly KDF.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Factional differences exist for a reason, and I'm sick and tired of Federation players advocating that they be watered down because they can't be arsed to fly KDF.
I would be more sympathetic to this argument if in fact the KDF UI didn't make my eyes bleed.
All i wanted was my cloak to activate when i tell it too regardless of red alert or faction. And also a more updated version for each faction to show that we are in the future of what we've already seen.... of... the future...
Okay, let me first open this by saying this. No I am not another whining Federation player who wants a advanced battle cloak for Federation Starships.
Now I will make my point.
Since the Federation is aiding the Romulans on New Romulus. How about making the Cloaking Device from the Tactical Escort Retrofit able to be installed on to any Federation starship. Or, incorporate a cloaking device in to the Reputation system along with a Plasma Quad Cannon.
This would take care of a lot of issues.
1) Shut those whining Federation players up.
2) Make the Romulan Tactical Boffs worth obtaining for a Federation player.
3) Expand the available equipment on the Reputation stores. Having a Cloaking Device would also allow KDF players to unlock the Cloaking Device for ships that does not come equipped with Cloaking Devices.
4) This would also make it possible for non-Federation and Non-KDF hulls (Breen Chel Grett, Jem'Hadar, Cardassians, Farengi)i to be equipped with Cloaking Devices.
Plasma Quad Cannon
The Plasma Quad Cannon is a piece of equipment that should of been included in the Reputation store from the very beginning.
Problem: PVP Will Bomb
KDF Will Have No Uniqe vs the Feds (Rom is cross.. no count)
FEDs mad e peace agrement saying they dont use cloaks
Only possible mostly IF you are with Tal Shiar.. Not Romulan
Not Like The KDF Was Ever Given The Chance To Be Shut Up.. why should the FEDS be shut up all the time? (AKA Given What Want)
R'tolves Will Spread Thier Peace and Will Prevail Over the Hostiles Who Dare Hurt Such A Isolationist Consitutional Monarchy!
No, no, no and no, you stop right there!
The federation should not have cloack, not because it would make them overpowered, but because in the serie, the federation don't use cloack.
The only exeption is the defiant ( cloack that is given by romulan ) and the galaxy dread from the alternate timeline.
I don't like to said this usualy but here, if you really want a cloak that bad, go to klingons side, or find a ship where you can optimize mask energy signature3, at more than 4km it is exactly like a cloack.
cbs will never allow this anyway, so stop waisting your time.
have you forgotten? romulus is GONE poof bang dead... the klinks are not at the peace table and the rommies are moot, this new faction represent a small fraction of a former empire that is not enough of a threat to dictate policy any more. ALL GOOD THINGS: watch it and learn "Stealth" is a cloaking device and the "war" of that "alternate timeline" is the "reality" in which we play. SOOOO to be CANNON we should in fact have starfleet issued "stealth" consoles on every fed ship period (game set match, good day to you sir)
Do this for me.
Go to a Federation Fleet Starbase. Go to the Requisitions Room to the desk in the far left corner. Look for the Caitian fighter reinforcements and read what is in its description.
OMG! A FREAKING CLOAKING DEVICE! Like OMG! I though Feds don't use cloaking devices! Why the heck does a fighter have a cloaking device?
Do this for me.
Go to a Federation Fleet Starbase. Go to the Requisitions Room to the desk in the far left corner. Look for the Caitian fighter reinforcements and read what is in its description.
OMG! A FREAKING CLOAKING DEVICE! Like OMG! I though Feds don't use cloaking devices! Why the heck does a fighter have a cloaking device?
That's not a cloak. It's a form of stealth technology, yes, but not a cloak.
Cloaking in Star Trek, and this is taken from Memory alpha, is "cloaking uses selective bending of light and emission dampening to render a ship totally invisible and undetectable."
That does not. It is a form of stealth, yes, but it is masking the energy and such of those fighters, making them harder to detect on sensors.
It is stealth, but it is not a true cloaking device. It's more along the lines of trying to use stealth technology in our world now, as a means of hiding planes and such from radar.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Imho, cloak in the way implemented now is far to effective. I say that playing Klingon as main faction. You have to invest alot to penetrate the cloak of KDF vessels. However, if done so, they are highly vulnerable, which is a bad thing too.
I think, giving cloak the way it works now to another faction is just making things worser then they already are.
Invisibility in MMORPGs is very difficult to balance out even on a single class, like rogues. I find it insane to give 90% of playerbase of an faction invisibility.
A solution would be a counter ability bound to any fed ship like cloak is bound to most of KDF vessels. This ability would put you in red alert and boost your sensors so that at equal sensor/stealth skill cloaked vessels can be detected up to 5 - 8 kilometers.
At the same time, if Klink vessels are cloaked, their shields stay online, however, cloak put them in red alert not allowing them to travel with full impulse. These type of cloak also should not give an damage bonus on uncloak.
Exeptions would be Bird of Prey class vessels, that should have en enhance cloaks which is effective like cloak now, because these ships are heavily relying on stealth attacks. Shields of BoP class will stay offline for cloaking, damage bonus stays.
Of course, since KDF and FED vessels are currently stat wise balanced due to the fact of invisibility, KDF vessels need to be adjusted in their stats. In addition, Kerrat spawn need to be fixed. Often, as a KDF player, you have no chance to re-spawn at all if not using your cloak, because of spawn camping Fed players.
While I agree that Feds should not get the cloak, I think they should get more viable or widespread ways to detect cloaked ships. After all Federation is at war with Klinks for long enough to counter cloaking system that (in general ideas) is what - 200 and something years old.
Nebula consoles or that small boost sci ships are getting is not enough. Especially as onle one class of ships get those tools and only one type of ships get the boost (however small), while cloak is available on all Klingon ships.
The detection ability should be native to all Starfleet ships, be a active ability with CD of a length of a cloaking devices and should give the same bonus to detection as cloaking is giving to stealth (measured in range to detect vs range to hide). So all in all fully specced ship with active ability should be able to detect cloaked ships with same amount of aux/stealth consoles/stealth skill as he invested into sensors from a range that would make cloaked alpha strike a suicide.
It should be balanced so that fully specced detector should be able to detect a full specced cloaker from something like 5 km. Battle cloak, by the name of it, should half that range. Nebula consoles should double it.
Perhaps make the weapons disabled while this skill is used, but give the ability to "switch off and fire" to give some way of getting at stupid cloaker before he can do his attack. Lower the acc for some time after disabling this skill to lower the chance of destroying shuch ship. Klinks want to sneak - make it really risky.
And yeah, I know the reaction of Klinks on something like this. It would "imbalance" the game (though I do not know how), make the Klinks unplayable (why?) and such. But in reality it would just make the game harder for KDF players and force them to use cloak as strategic (positioning) not tactical device.
Not to mention that with current "cloak, cloak everywhere" it would make PvP somehow playable.
Yeah... sci ship. With most likely heavy investment into t4 ability to detect something that's native for all it's enemies. And what about "others"? Every Klingon ship can cloak. Can every Starfleet ship detect cloak as efficiently as sci? Are KDF ships other then Raiders/BoPs gimped when it comes to stealth as much as are escorts and cruiser when it comes to stealth detection?
Answers to both question is no. The only KDF ship I'm aware of that has some sort of "cloak to size" problems is bortaS. All others are in happy "we are cloaking" land while the other side is limited to sci ships as detectors only. And that with the investment to t4 skill and most likely sci consoles.
How much had Klink ship to invest to be practicly undetectable at any meaningfull range to anyone but a sci (assuming that sci invest into sensors)? Nothing at all, right. Just get the ship, press button, be undetectable unless you run into someone that has invested into sensors. And if you invest into stealth, the chance of being detected by anyone but a flying sci stealth detector are close to null.
And the last time I PvPed was a month or so ago. In a kinetic DSSV stealth detector. Lot of fun. But my second toon was eng in star cruiser. The difference between detection range was... quite big (me being polite here) even with 9 pts into sensors and sensor console for my eng. All while a half-brain-dead Ker'rat lurker in his battle cruiser was just as undetectable for my whale as some hunter-killer in his raptor.
Um, you haven't PvP'ed recently, have you? Lemme give you a bit of info you appear to lack.
A sci/sci WILL detect, and stay on, you in Cloak at 5KM already. even Battlecloak, if they're even fractionally aware of what they're doing and not gimping their own specs for lulz.
Yestday's Cap&Hold runs, for example, had a team of 3 Fed Sci and two 'others' vs. a KDF team consisting of 1 vet ship, 1 Hoh'sus, and three other KDF BoPs (mine was a Heggie and the only one without STF, Fleet, or Set Bonus gear of some sort).
The Sci ships in question were a Vesta, Recon Sci, and Intrepid, the Tacs were a Bug, and a Kumari.
I can assure you, they were able to detect and stay on a KDF BoP that was on Evasive, cloaking, with full spec to Stealth skills just fine at 5+Km as the KDF players were handily dragged out of Cloak by Tractor Beams practically as soon as they got close to that Fedball (aka within tractor-beam range.)
This went down on two out of three runs almost identically, the third run both teams were short players and KDF had an AFK hiding in the spawnpoint, so it was less of a match, but properly specced out, working as a team, Feds do NOT have ANY trouble countering KDF cloak as it sits right now.
This. In effect, the ability to detect cloaked vessels is one of several things science ships AND science officers are good for. Disperse such anti-cloak measures to all ships, and suddenly sci has even less meaning.
And yeah, the Feds have little trouble detecting cloaked ships nowadays. Heck, they don't even have to use abilties, per se. Mines can detect and decloak vessels that get caught by 'em accidentially, along with the emission-seeking torpedo and so on. Then there's the Tachyon Detection Grid that he mentioned. On top of that, there's the science officer's sensor scan ability that will reveal most cloaked enemies within 5km.
Competent Federation PvPers know how to fight the cloak. That's why the cloak isn't the ridiculously OP thing that certain Feddies like to claim. . .it doesn't make you invulnerable, and its uses are situational and mostly restricted to ambushing/first strike advantages. Balanced teams and teamwork will overcome these advantages. The only ships that can really use the cloak as a centerpiece of their tactics are the BoPs, and they sacrifice quite a bit to get that.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Seriously, the federation is the only major power that you can become that doesn't come with a cloak, and it almost is making me want to use a Klingon character only. also, in Star Trek u can buy a cloak from a black market Ferengi, they should add that you can buy a defective (not a fully functioning) regular cloak ( not an battle cloak) from somebody on ferenginar, one of the other Ferengi in the game or some other black market dealer that way it's more fun for the federation players.
No, no, no and no, you stop right there!
The federation should not have cloack, not because it would make them overpowered, but because in the serie, the federation don't use cloack.
The only exeption is the defiant ( cloack that is given by romulan ) and the galaxy dread from the alternate timeline.
I don't like to said this usualy but here, if you really want a cloak that bad, go to klingons side, or find a ship where you can optimize mask energy signature3, at more than 4km it is exactly like a cloack.
cbs will never allow this anyway, so stop waisting your time.
The Feds may not have a cloak directly, but in DS9 a Ferengi got ahold of a defective cloak and tried to sell it, they should let black market arms dealers sell defective cloaks so everyone has a chance to use these, it's more fun for federation players and to let the Feds get a more equal foothold in ship combat.
The Feds may not have a cloak directly, but in DS9 a Ferengi got ahold of a defective cloak and tried to sell it, they should let black market arms dealers sell defective cloaks so everyone has a chance to use these, it's more fun for federation players and to let the Feds get a more equal foothold in ship combat.
I don't think cloak is a fed thing, because their ships are not build for combat, but rather exploration. They wouldn't be exploring the galaxy in cloak ships. The only reason the Defiant had one was because it needed to make a covert run into Dominion Space. Beside it will be boring if every faction ships in the game can cloak.
"You ask why we give our ships computer normal emotions. Do you really want a warship incapable of loyalty?"
Seriously, the federation is the only major power that you can become that doesn't come with a cloak, and it almost is making me want to use a Klingon character only. also, in Star Trek u can buy a cloak from a black market Ferengi, they should add that you can buy a defective (not a fully functioning) regular cloak ( not an battle cloak) from somebody on ferenginar, one of the other Ferengi in the game or some other black market dealer that way it's more fun for the federation players.
Yes, Roddenberry forbid you ever decide to want to play the KDF for using cloaks, a major power that actually has a tradition of using cloaks on a wide scale, so you want it on Starfleet vessels, a group by tradition doesn't...
The Treaty of Algeron that was signed that dealt with the federation using cloaking devices was between the Romulan Empire and the Federation. The Empire no longer exists so the treaty no longer exists.
"In the game Star Trek Online, the Treaty of Algeron is no longer in effect as of 2409 due to the destruction of Romulus and the reformation of the Romulan Empire under Empress Sela."
There is absolutely NO reason feds cannot have a cloaking device. Simple as that.
I do not think they should get a battle cloak and I think if they do get one it should be a Console, once combat starts that would be a wasted console slot since there are far better consoles that can be used. The last restriction would be you can only obtain it by buying one of the two ships that already have it. Basicly if you own one of those 2 ships you can equip it on any ship you own and its not a battle cloak.
Add that cloaking device to a console reward box where KDF can get it for ships they have that do not have a cloaking device and feds get some other crappy console.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I don't think cloak is a fed thing, because their ships are not build for combat, but rather exploration. They wouldn't be exploring the galaxy in cloak ships. The only reason the Defiant had one was because it needed to make a covert run into Dominion Space. Beside it will be boring if every faction ships in the game can cloak.
Pretty much.. one just needs to check what kind of ships Starfleet is still building.. If they're still for science and exploration, cloaks are unnecessary. If mainly for combat and they are building warships its a different matter.
With the Defiant, they were even reluctant to call it a warship (which it really was) instead of calling it an escort. It must be something to do with the fact that the federation council and federation as an entity/power leans more to pacifism and only gets aggressive when existence is threatened.
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
Heres a point on the Defiant, the cloaking device was loaned to the federation for use in the Gamma Quadrant only, Sisko chose to ignore that little fact on more than one occasion before the start of the Dominion War.
The Treaty still stands with RSE, the empire is still around although weakened.
Only 4 federation starships have used a cloak, The Enterprise in the Romulan Incident, the Pegasus phase cloak was also used by the Enterprise D once, the Defiant see point 1, and the Galaxy X was an alternate time line.
In a mirror darkly does not count, that is a different reality.
Does Starfleet need cloaking tech, the answer is no, though Federation anti-cloak tech would be a better choice.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The Treaty still stands with RSE, the empire is still around although weakened.
Did you not pay attention to the storyline? The Romulan empire ended with the destruction of Romulas. Empress Sella is trying to bring it back under the Tal Shiar. She and Hakeev were considered criminals and were being hunted down along with the rest of the Tal Shiar. Her version of the Romulan Empire is not recognized by the federation or the Klingons. If Sella is ever caught she will rule her empire of criminals from Facility 4028.
The Treaty of Algeron was not about cloaking devices but about keeping the federation out of Romulan space, Cloaking devices was an addon to the treaty just to insure that the federation does not send cloaked ships into the nuetral zone and into Romulan space. And that nuetral zone was not the same one as the Fed/Klingon border. With that said have you noticed that federation ships go into what was Romulan space and hunt down Tal Shiar ships? If the treaty still held then no federation ship would go into Romulan space.
Everything says the treaty is gone, just because you want it to stand to support your No fed cloaks does not make it a correct.
Join Date: Nobody cares.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
If a Galaxy class ship is coming out of cloak in the future, I'd hate to see what the escorts are doing
I would like special ship powers to be part of the ship. I just don't see how you can give the fleet defiant a cloak. The C(zen)-store ship's catch is that it can cloak, so the fleet version shouldn't be able to cloak on its own plus have the 5 tac consoles.
i don't know if he did or not, but you apparently didn't pay attention to the game's lore
straight from The path to 2409: Volume 16, Chapter 2:
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
so yes, there IS in fact a reason why the federation can't have cloaks
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
With the release of the romulan faction it is only going to get worse for kdf. So there might as well be somebody with a cloak. Hell the romulans are pretty much a fed/kdf hybrid as far as ships go.
That is indeed a concern amongst some KDF players, that this will just imbalance things further because this will be a way for Federation players to get a cloak without having to grub with us smelly Klingons. There's some concerns that the balance will be shifted towards Fed-Rom due to the content the Federation has, their slight edge in starbase maturity (more fleets at Tier 5), and the general numbers the faction has.
I don't know how it will turn out. I'm waiting and watching this whole thing unfold. I'll be returning to the game itself in May (currently on a hiatus from it) to play the new content that's come out over 4-5 months.
As to how cloaks will affect PvP between KDF and Fed-Roms. . .I think we KDF will just have to start carrying around countermeasures against cloaks
It looks like the new faction is shaping up to be an underdog faction like the KDF is. I encourage all the Feds in this thread begging for cloaks to play as a Romulan. Maybe once you spend the majority of your time playing a faction that doesn't have much, you'll come to enjoy the unique things it does offer, and will understand the desire to preserve your uniqueness from those that'd rather have everything available to everyone. Having everything available to everyone pretty much negates the entire philosophy behind separate factions to begin with.
Indeed, that's sorta been my response most of the time. Want battlecruisers that dish out damage? Roll KDF. Want frigate pets on carriers? Roll KDF. Want battlecloaks? Roll KDF.
The reverse is true for KDF players, as well. If we want better DPSing and turning escorts, we play a Fed. If we want SCIENCE SHIPS, we play Fed. If we want to fly a cruiser primarily dedicated towards tanking and outgoing healing, we play Fed.
Factional differences exist for a reason, and I'm sick and tired of Federation players advocating that they be watered down because they can't be arsed to fly KDF.
I would be more sympathetic to this argument if in fact the KDF UI didn't make my eyes bleed.
Problem: PVP Will Bomb
KDF Will Have No Uniqe vs the Feds (Rom is cross.. no count)
FEDs mad e peace agrement saying they dont use cloaks
Only possible mostly IF you are with Tal Shiar.. Not Romulan
Not Like The KDF Was Ever Given The Chance To Be Shut Up.. why should the FEDS be shut up all the time? (AKA Given What Want)
have you forgotten? romulus is GONE poof bang dead... the klinks are not at the peace table and the rommies are moot, this new faction represent a small fraction of a former empire that is not enough of a threat to dictate policy any more. ALL GOOD THINGS: watch it and learn "Stealth" is a cloaking device and the "war" of that "alternate timeline" is the "reality" in which we play. SOOOO to be CANNON we should in fact have starfleet issued "stealth" consoles on every fed ship period (game set match, good day to you sir)
Go to a Federation Fleet Starbase. Go to the Requisitions Room to the desk in the far left corner. Look for the Caitian fighter reinforcements and read what is in its description.
OMG! A FREAKING CLOAKING DEVICE! Like OMG! I though Feds don't use cloaking devices! Why the heck does a fighter have a cloaking device?
That's not a cloak. It's a form of stealth technology, yes, but not a cloak.
Cloaking in Star Trek, and this is taken from Memory alpha, is "cloaking uses selective bending of light and emission dampening to render a ship totally invisible and undetectable."
That does not. It is a form of stealth, yes, but it is masking the energy and such of those fighters, making them harder to detect on sensors.
It is stealth, but it is not a true cloaking device. It's more along the lines of trying to use stealth technology in our world now, as a means of hiding planes and such from radar.
I think, giving cloak the way it works now to another faction is just making things worser then they already are.
Invisibility in MMORPGs is very difficult to balance out even on a single class, like rogues. I find it insane to give 90% of playerbase of an faction invisibility.
A solution would be a counter ability bound to any fed ship like cloak is bound to most of KDF vessels. This ability would put you in red alert and boost your sensors so that at equal sensor/stealth skill cloaked vessels can be detected up to 5 - 8 kilometers.
At the same time, if Klink vessels are cloaked, their shields stay online, however, cloak put them in red alert not allowing them to travel with full impulse. These type of cloak also should not give an damage bonus on uncloak.
Exeptions would be Bird of Prey class vessels, that should have en enhance cloaks which is effective like cloak now, because these ships are heavily relying on stealth attacks. Shields of BoP class will stay offline for cloaking, damage bonus stays.
Of course, since KDF and FED vessels are currently stat wise balanced due to the fact of invisibility, KDF vessels need to be adjusted in their stats. In addition, Kerrat spawn need to be fixed. Often, as a KDF player, you have no chance to re-spawn at all if not using your cloak, because of spawn camping Fed players.
I have been arguing probably most strongly in this thread that the Federation shouldn't have a cloaking device. :mad::P
Nebula consoles or that small boost sci ships are getting is not enough. Especially as onle one class of ships get those tools and only one type of ships get the boost (however small), while cloak is available on all Klingon ships.
The detection ability should be native to all Starfleet ships, be a active ability with CD of a length of a cloaking devices and should give the same bonus to detection as cloaking is giving to stealth (measured in range to detect vs range to hide). So all in all fully specced ship with active ability should be able to detect cloaked ships with same amount of aux/stealth consoles/stealth skill as he invested into sensors from a range that would make cloaked alpha strike a suicide.
It should be balanced so that fully specced detector should be able to detect a full specced cloaker from something like 5 km. Battle cloak, by the name of it, should half that range. Nebula consoles should double it.
Perhaps make the weapons disabled while this skill is used, but give the ability to "switch off and fire" to give some way of getting at stupid cloaker before he can do his attack. Lower the acc for some time after disabling this skill to lower the chance of destroying shuch ship. Klinks want to sneak - make it really risky.
And yeah, I know the reaction of Klinks on something like this. It would "imbalance" the game (though I do not know how), make the Klinks unplayable (why?) and such. But in reality it would just make the game harder for KDF players and force them to use cloak as strategic (positioning) not tactical device.
Not to mention that with current "cloak, cloak everywhere" it would make PvP somehow playable.
Answers to both question is no. The only KDF ship I'm aware of that has some sort of "cloak to size" problems is bortaS. All others are in happy "we are cloaking" land while the other side is limited to sci ships as detectors only. And that with the investment to t4 skill and most likely sci consoles.
How much had Klink ship to invest to be practicly undetectable at any meaningfull range to anyone but a sci (assuming that sci invest into sensors)? Nothing at all, right. Just get the ship, press button, be undetectable unless you run into someone that has invested into sensors. And if you invest into stealth, the chance of being detected by anyone but a flying sci stealth detector are close to null.
And the last time I PvPed was a month or so ago. In a kinetic DSSV stealth detector. Lot of fun. But my second toon was eng in star cruiser. The difference between detection range was... quite big (me being polite here) even with 9 pts into sensors and sensor console for my eng. All while a half-brain-dead Ker'rat lurker in his battle cruiser was just as undetectable for my whale as some hunter-killer in his raptor.
This. In effect, the ability to detect cloaked vessels is one of several things science ships AND science officers are good for. Disperse such anti-cloak measures to all ships, and suddenly sci has even less meaning.
And yeah, the Feds have little trouble detecting cloaked ships nowadays. Heck, they don't even have to use abilties, per se. Mines can detect and decloak vessels that get caught by 'em accidentially, along with the emission-seeking torpedo and so on. Then there's the Tachyon Detection Grid that he mentioned. On top of that, there's the science officer's sensor scan ability that will reveal most cloaked enemies within 5km.
Competent Federation PvPers know how to fight the cloak. That's why the cloak isn't the ridiculously OP thing that certain Feddies like to claim. . .it doesn't make you invulnerable, and its uses are situational and mostly restricted to ambushing/first strike advantages. Balanced teams and teamwork will overcome these advantages. The only ships that can really use the cloak as a centerpiece of their tactics are the BoPs, and they sacrifice quite a bit to get that.
The Feds may not have a cloak directly, but in DS9 a Ferengi got ahold of a defective cloak and tried to sell it, they should let black market arms dealers sell defective cloaks so everyone has a chance to use these, it's more fun for federation players and to let the Feds get a more equal foothold in ship combat.
I don't think cloak is a fed thing, because their ships are not build for combat, but rather exploration. They wouldn't be exploring the galaxy in cloak ships. The only reason the Defiant had one was because it needed to make a covert run into Dominion Space. Beside it will be boring if every faction ships in the game can cloak.
Yes, Roddenberry forbid you ever decide to want to play the KDF for using cloaks, a major power that actually has a tradition of using cloaks on a wide scale, so you want it on Starfleet vessels, a group by tradition doesn't...
:rolleyes:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Algeron
"In the game Star Trek Online, the Treaty of Algeron is no longer in effect as of 2409 due to the destruction of Romulus and the reformation of the Romulan Empire under Empress Sela."
There is absolutely NO reason feds cannot have a cloaking device. Simple as that.
I do not think they should get a battle cloak and I think if they do get one it should be a Console, once combat starts that would be a wasted console slot since there are far better consoles that can be used. The last restriction would be you can only obtain it by buying one of the two ships that already have it. Basicly if you own one of those 2 ships you can equip it on any ship you own and its not a battle cloak.
Add that cloaking device to a console reward box where KDF can get it for ships they have that do not have a cloaking device and feds get some other crappy console.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
With the Defiant, they were even reluctant to call it a warship (which it really was) instead of calling it an escort. It must be something to do with the fact that the federation council and federation as an entity/power leans more to pacifism and only gets aggressive when existence is threatened.
We still live!!!!! Hahahahahahahahaa! We live and we will conquer!!!!! Hahahahahaaha!
-Roach, when asked about Klingon extinction!
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
The Treaty still stands with RSE, the empire is still around although weakened.
Only 4 federation starships have used a cloak, The Enterprise in the Romulan Incident, the Pegasus phase cloak was also used by the Enterprise D once, the Defiant see point 1, and the Galaxy X was an alternate time line.
In a mirror darkly does not count, that is a different reality.
Does Starfleet need cloaking tech, the answer is no, though Federation anti-cloak tech would be a better choice.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Did you not pay attention to the storyline? The Romulan empire ended with the destruction of Romulas. Empress Sella is trying to bring it back under the Tal Shiar. She and Hakeev were considered criminals and were being hunted down along with the rest of the Tal Shiar. Her version of the Romulan Empire is not recognized by the federation or the Klingons. If Sella is ever caught she will rule her empire of criminals from Facility 4028.
The Treaty of Algeron was not about cloaking devices but about keeping the federation out of Romulan space, Cloaking devices was an addon to the treaty just to insure that the federation does not send cloaked ships into the nuetral zone and into Romulan space. And that nuetral zone was not the same one as the Fed/Klingon border. With that said have you noticed that federation ships go into what was Romulan space and hunt down Tal Shiar ships? If the treaty still held then no federation ship would go into Romulan space.
Everything says the treaty is gone, just because you want it to stand to support your No fed cloaks does not make it a correct.
"I'm drunk, whats your excuse for being an idiot?" - Unknown drunk man. :eek:
I would like special ship powers to be part of the ship. I just don't see how you can give the fleet defiant a cloak. The C(zen)-store ship's catch is that it can cloak, so the fleet version shouldn't be able to cloak on its own plus have the 5 tac consoles.
straight from The path to 2409: Volume 16, Chapter 2:
It took three months for Federation President Aennik Okeg to convince the Romulans and the Klingons to send representatives to a summit to discuss the situation. When the meeting finally began, Okeg made the Federation's position clear. He apologized for the experiments into cloaking technology, and said that he had signed an executive order banning all research into or creation of Federation cloaking technology.
"The narrow legal view may be that the Treaty of Algeron ended when Romulus was destroyed," Okeg said. "The Romulan Star Empire we knew is gone, and you are a new people. What has not changed is the Federation's commitment to peace."
so yes, there IS in fact a reason why the federation can't have cloaks
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"