I guess you guys never played other games that a kick function.
I just hope for yours and everyone elses's sake you don't find out the hard way.
Well Grief Kicking could become an issue, but why not use the AFK timer in game to determine if a player is to be kicked or not. Granted that is like 10 mins, but still could get them the 1 hour ban. Although some work would be required to make it work right.
Well there are some rather drastic solutions in here, but there are a few threads discussing this subject it seems. So let me throw in my 2 cents, no to Team only events. This would discourage players from playing when they do not have friends online. Yes to finding a way to punish AFK farmers.
If we could find a solution, I am sure it would work... shame we can't find one we all agree on.
Leechers and AFKers are a minor irritation that happen infrequently to myself and others here in STO. I team with friends and fleetmates mostly, so for me at least, AFKers are a minor problem easily solved by teaming with people I know.
One persn's minor problem is the next person's major catastrophe. It's a matter of opinion.
regardless it is stiill needed for when it does happen ...people Claiming we dont need it can do it all day long it doesn't mean it will make it any more true
We need no kick option. Just remove the leaving penalty timer, and it's solved.
We can leave the afkers in the pug as long as they're afked: a fitting answer imo.
I'm tired of unreasonable noobs doing eSTF and ruining the xp for every1. We should have the right to leave if we don't like the ppl we're playing with... without any penalty. Ppl would argue that no penalty timer, there will be pug hogging. I hardly think so 'cause we would lose time doing that.
New implemented features (such as kick button) will always be open to new abuses (i.e afkers since the penalty timer was implemented) and bugs that would cause server instability.
I prefer playing with annoying afkers and noobs than to not playing at all due to server instability. We all know too well how things are when cryptic implement a new feature: bug and bug and bug.
Removing the penalty timer wont require any coding/programming, so there wont be any bug.
I've play STO for a long time and I love the pugs b4 all the crappies stuff cryptic has implemented due to players whining on forum. Please keep in mind that 90% of STOers do not visit forum.
Zero to very little participation(IE, afk at the zone entrance) = 0 reward. Not able to participate in need/greed rolls.
Measurable by damage output or effective buffing or healing of others.
Little to medium participation(someone perhaps undergeared or not optimized in build)= Standardized sub-par reward. Only able to participate in need/greed rolls where participation is over a certain percentage.
Again, measurable by damage output or effective buffs/heals to teammates.
Complete participation = full rewards. Able to need/greed all rolls.
Anything over a certain baseline percentage of damage output/heals/buffs meets this requirement.
I'm against any new feature that requires coding/programming 'cause there will be bugs. You may think that your simple idea is easy to implement but it aint so. To properly implement any feature to any program, we have to reprogram the routines quite a bit. Quick patch only create bugs and unforeseen problems afterward.
You don't have to have your friends on or even your fleet. Just join one of the "STF" channels. THey're full of people who not only participate but know what they're doing and want to get through the runs.
And it's not just STF's it's the other queues too.
If everyone who's not a leecher did this then eventually the only ones in the public Queues will be leechers and some newbies. Newbies can be talked to and taught to use the chats, Leechers are unrepentant jack wagons.
the one solution i can see being effective is,
change the way the missions work for each player
like remove it being a team effort.
keep the mission the way it is.
just remove the ability that the "team" objective can be
done with one person. if that one person does the objective
that person should have it finish and if there is a person that is afk
and didnt help he should have it unfinished. and that afker
will never get his reward.
and with this they can just remove the leaver penalty.
You'll have a select few making the determination of what the "right" gear is, and anyone who doesn't have it will get voted out. That's one of many reasons why vote kicking isn't needed.
how can you tell what i have on???? not like i can right click and look at what you have on so that reason is out the door
ppl love this when it come to this game guessing and speculation
this is the very reason we dont have a inspect because a lot would be left alone or kick from alot of things per mades fleets groups so on
+1 but... we can't help it.. even I have CRAZY lag too in game and its un-expected. I'd try to leave the match to show other's im not a leecher but even logging out is a pain! >.< I'd try to move but my ship bounces all around he screen. Talk about uber rubberbanding lag
I have a simpler idea: Report EVERY AFKer to the GMs. This way, they have a better indication of who's violating the rules so they can come up with a better plan to deal with these jerks.
the one solution i can see being effective is,
change the way the missions work for each player
like remove it being a team effort.
keep the mission the way it is.
just remove the ability that the "team" objective can be
done with one person. if that one person does the objective
that person should have it finish and if there is a person that is afk
and didnt help he should have it unfinished. and that afker
will never get his reward.
and with this they can just remove the leaver penalty.
this seems like a good idea in theory, however being a veteran of guild wars I know how easy it is to script this as well. most farming spots would be filled with Bot's - I'm talking thousands of em - - generic, basic template humans running around in their underwear from one boss spot to the next, wait for it to spawn, then kill it within seconds because of their numbers.
AFKr's would just run a botting program to fly them to the team objective and do all the stuff to complete it.
----
Keep in mind that not every AFKer is just out to scam the team - there are legit reasons for people to go AFK - Baby crying, knock at the door, cat puking on the couch, ran off for a quick #1 and ended up working a full shift pushing a 2.
Best solution I can think of is to allow players to report afk - if a player is reported by 3 or more people, the match is saved as a recording and increments a counter...after being reported 12 out of 20 match's - the character would then be flagged for a G.M. to spectate 5 random match recordings - It they confirm AFK then the character is banned from elite STF's, and the player is issued a warning. If they don't, they can block players from reporting that person for a few weeks.
This wouldn't ban the player themselves if they are confirmed by the G.M., Nor would it prevent the character from regular STF's - in case they learn to change their ways, It also wouldn't punish players who had a few legit reason in a short period of time.
I have a much more satisfying solution to get rid of AFKers.
1. Program a random timer that resets each time a character/ship moves, and if the AFKer doesn't move before the timer runs out his account is banned for a month (the reason the timer is random is to prevent aFKers from watching the clock and tapping movement to reset the timer just before the time is up)
2. The afkers account is stripped of all it's stuff and wealth which gets divided equally between the other people on his team
3. All of the afker's characters are all reduced to level 1
4. The afker is given the title "AFK Abuser" that cannot be removed until the AFKer goes 6 months without going AFK on any teams. If he can find anyone to team with.
I know we'll never see this happen but it would be satisfying to see the afkers get what they richly deserve and watch their whining and crying about getting punished. :P
As I said earlier an activity timer is pointless because activity can easily faked by simple scripts. Those scripts would only have to move the player and activate skills from time to time.
Theres no way to determine if the activty is productive to the goal of the map or not.
Your proposed activity timer would only hurt people who suddely get during a mission a phonecall or someone is at the door.
You could just ignore the telephone or the door, but most of the people don't and leave the computer for one or two minutes to deal with it.
Since i have returned to game i haven't come across one afk'er ..not one. I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. If it was as bad as this topic would want you to believe wouldn't i come across at least one afk player in last 30 days? :rolleyes:
I'm against any new feature that requires coding/programming 'cause there will be bugs. You may think that your simple idea is easy to implement but it aint so. To properly implement any feature to any program, we have to reprogram the routines quite a bit. Quick patch only create bugs and unforeseen problems afterward.
agreed besides afkers have been around since the dawn of mmo history and they wont be going any where soon no matter what you try to fix them there will always be a work around
just look at eve for instance afk mining and farming is abundant there there is so many programs that can be fine tuned to the point where not only do they do the work for you they even interact for you as well
Other people have suggested it before at it is still probably the simplest way to "fix" the problem, if someone is on your ignore list then you won't be teamed with them.
Yes, you take a hit for one run of a mission but then that slacker isn't going to be a problem for you again. And if the slacker keeps going AFK they'll start running out of people to leech off.
this seems like a good idea in theory, however being a veteran of guild wars I know how easy it is to script this as well. most farming spots would be filled with Bot's - I'm talking thousands of em - - generic, basic template humans running around in their underwear from one boss spot to the next, wait for it to spawn, then kill it within seconds because of their numbers.
AFKr's would just run a botting program to fly them to the team objective and do all the stuff to complete it.
----
Keep in mind that not every AFKer is just out to scam the team - there are legit reasons for people to go AFK - Baby crying, knock at the door, cat puking on the couch, ran off for a quick #1 and ended up working a full shift pushing a 2.
Best solution I can think of is to allow players to report afk - if a player is reported by 3 or more people, the match is saved as a recording and increments a counter...after being reported 12 out of 20 match's - the character would then be flagged for a G.M. to spectate 5 random match recordings - It they confirm AFK then the character is banned from elite STF's, and the player is issued a warning. If they don't, they can block players from reporting that person for a few weeks.
This wouldn't ban the player themselves if they are confirmed by the G.M., Nor would it prevent the character from regular STF's - in case they learn to change their ways, It also wouldn't punish players who had a few legit reason in a short period of time.
i only suggest that because i noticed the afkers in STF dont seem to use
a program for movement. they seem to only be able to randomly click and
join a match and press a or d every few minutes so they dont get booted for afk.
well they could but they would have to do that for a single pve queue.
-
funny you mention guild wars. that brings back alot of memories.
the bots in guild wars are completely different, then here on STO.
just an observation though. they seem to have issues with movement
when there in an STF mission.
You used to be able to see other players' setups, I do know that. I'm not sure whether that was changed, but it was possible by changing the character name from your own to someone else's.
You can also prevent others from seeing your stuff in the ingame UI.
Since i have returned to game i haven't come across one afk'er ..not one. I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. If it was as bad as this topic would want you to believe wouldn't i come across at least one afk player in last 30 days? :rolleyes:
You are lucky. I myself have been stuck in Arena with ONE specific person AFKing at least two dozen times. I have reported him each time but day after day, there he is. Clearly the fact that I and dozens of others reprt him repeatedly has zero results.
Again and again it's been stated what the simple solution to this is:
If someone is on your ignore list, the game should not allow them to be random teamed with you. Enough people ignore a chronic AFKer and soon they can't get in to matches at all and no one has to deal with them.
To those that say, "Just don't PUG, use your friends list or the chat channels.":
One of my favorite parts of MMO gameplay is joining the random que and (in theory at least) getting to play with new people and make new friends. When I do so, I go in fully aware that optionals may be missed, PvP matches may be lost 15-0, but I get to encounter new players. This is part of the intended design of the system and shouldn't be ruined because of leechers.
You used to be able to see other players' setups, I do know that. I'm not sure whether that was changed, but it was possible by changing the character name from your own to someone else's.
You can also prevent others from seeing your stuff in the ingame UI.
only thing players have be able to see is player info like what class they are what fleet they are in so on no more then that and every one in game can have the same name all day long they cant have the same @name and that cant be change unless you have a dang good reason for a GM to let you
I'm with the Op! I mean - I've been around for a while (I played for longer than I've been a memeber of these forums), and it's only been recently that people experience these 'afkers.' I'm definitely not one of them but I do on occasion make a mistake as everyone does... So I just had a thought... "Maybe" I had a thought...
IF PlayerX interacts with NPCx, then PlayerXTotalNPCx = +1, else -1
IF PlayerX attacks NPCx, then PlayerXNPCx = +1, else -1
IF PlayerXTotalNPCx is less than Z then Loot1PlayerX = 0, Else Loot1PlayerX=1
Maybe, just maybe - when loot drops the rate for people whom do not do anything, not even fire their weapon - should be a 'factor' in if they get any loot at all <VBG>
IF PlayerXTotalNPC99 is less than X then FinalLoot = 0
Maybe... Just maybe, when the end reward comes along, if you've either just run around in circles, not firing your weapon 'you' shouldn't get much if any loot!!
Comments
Well Grief Kicking could become an issue, but why not use the AFK timer in game to determine if a player is to be kicked or not. Granted that is like 10 mins, but still could get them the 1 hour ban. Although some work would be required to make it work right.
If we could find a solution, I am sure it would work... shame we can't find one we all agree on.
regardless it is stiill needed for when it does happen ...people Claiming we dont need it can do it all day long it doesn't mean it will make it any more true
We can leave the afkers in the pug as long as they're afked: a fitting answer imo.
I'm tired of unreasonable noobs doing eSTF and ruining the xp for every1. We should have the right to leave if we don't like the ppl we're playing with... without any penalty. Ppl would argue that no penalty timer, there will be pug hogging. I hardly think so 'cause we would lose time doing that.
New implemented features (such as kick button) will always be open to new abuses (i.e afkers since the penalty timer was implemented) and bugs that would cause server instability.
I prefer playing with annoying afkers and noobs than to not playing at all due to server instability. We all know too well how things are when cryptic implement a new feature: bug and bug and bug.
Removing the penalty timer wont require any coding/programming, so there wont be any bug.
I've play STO for a long time and I love the pugs b4 all the crappies stuff cryptic has implemented due to players whining on forum. Please keep in mind that 90% of STOers do not visit forum.
I'm against any new feature that requires coding/programming 'cause there will be bugs. You may think that your simple idea is easy to implement but it aint so. To properly implement any feature to any program, we have to reprogram the routines quite a bit. Quick patch only create bugs and unforeseen problems afterward.
You don't have to have your friends on or even your fleet. Just join one of the "STF" channels. THey're full of people who not only participate but know what they're doing and want to get through the runs.
And it's not just STF's it's the other queues too.
If everyone who's not a leecher did this then eventually the only ones in the public Queues will be leechers and some newbies. Newbies can be talked to and taught to use the chats, Leechers are unrepentant jack wagons.
change the way the missions work for each player
like remove it being a team effort.
keep the mission the way it is.
just remove the ability that the "team" objective can be
done with one person. if that one person does the objective
that person should have it finish and if there is a person that is afk
and didnt help he should have it unfinished. and that afker
will never get his reward.
and with this they can just remove the leaver penalty.
how can you tell what i have on???? not like i can right click and look at what you have on so that reason is out the door
ppl love this when it come to this game guessing and speculation
this is the very reason we dont have a inspect because a lot would be left alone or kick from alot of things per mades fleets groups so on
system Lord Baal is dead
this seems like a good idea in theory, however being a veteran of guild wars I know how easy it is to script this as well. most farming spots would be filled with Bot's - I'm talking thousands of em - - generic, basic template humans running around in their underwear from one boss spot to the next, wait for it to spawn, then kill it within seconds because of their numbers.
AFKr's would just run a botting program to fly them to the team objective and do all the stuff to complete it.
----
Keep in mind that not every AFKer is just out to scam the team - there are legit reasons for people to go AFK - Baby crying, knock at the door, cat puking on the couch, ran off for a quick #1 and ended up working a full shift pushing a 2.
Best solution I can think of is to allow players to report afk - if a player is reported by 3 or more people, the match is saved as a recording and increments a counter...after being reported 12 out of 20 match's - the character would then be flagged for a G.M. to spectate 5 random match recordings - It they confirm AFK then the character is banned from elite STF's, and the player is issued a warning. If they don't, they can block players from reporting that person for a few weeks.
This wouldn't ban the player themselves if they are confirmed by the G.M., Nor would it prevent the character from regular STF's - in case they learn to change their ways, It also wouldn't punish players who had a few legit reason in a short period of time.
Me playing UT2k4 (red guy) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz0DnP7wXnU
Exhibit A :
As I said earlier an activity timer is pointless because activity can easily faked by simple scripts. Those scripts would only have to move the player and activate skills from time to time.
Theres no way to determine if the activty is productive to the goal of the map or not.
Your proposed activity timer would only hurt people who suddely get during a mission a phonecall or someone is at the door.
You could just ignore the telephone or the door, but most of the people don't and leave the computer for one or two minutes to deal with it.
agreed besides afkers have been around since the dawn of mmo history and they wont be going any where soon no matter what you try to fix them there will always be a work around
just look at eve for instance afk mining and farming is abundant there there is so many programs that can be fine tuned to the point where not only do they do the work for you they even interact for you as well
Yes, you take a hit for one run of a mission but then that slacker isn't going to be a problem for you again. And if the slacker keeps going AFK they'll start running out of people to leech off.
i only suggest that because i noticed the afkers in STF dont seem to use
a program for movement. they seem to only be able to randomly click and
join a match and press a or d every few minutes so they dont get booted for afk.
well they could but they would have to do that for a single pve queue.
-
funny you mention guild wars. that brings back alot of memories.
the bots in guild wars are completely different, then here on STO.
just an observation though. they seem to have issues with movement
when there in an STF mission.
You can not check other players but only yours through gateway.
im sure you have
system Lord Baal is dead
You can also prevent others from seeing your stuff in the ingame UI.
You are lucky. I myself have been stuck in Arena with ONE specific person AFKing at least two dozen times. I have reported him each time but day after day, there he is. Clearly the fact that I and dozens of others reprt him repeatedly has zero results.
Again and again it's been stated what the simple solution to this is:
If someone is on your ignore list, the game should not allow them to be random teamed with you. Enough people ignore a chronic AFKer and soon they can't get in to matches at all and no one has to deal with them.
To those that say, "Just don't PUG, use your friends list or the chat channels.":
One of my favorite parts of MMO gameplay is joining the random que and (in theory at least) getting to play with new people and make new friends. When I do so, I go in fully aware that optionals may be missed, PvP matches may be lost 15-0, but I get to encounter new players. This is part of the intended design of the system and shouldn't be ruined because of leechers.
only thing players have be able to see is player info like what class they are what fleet they are in so on no more then that and every one in game can have the same name all day long they cant have the same @name and that cant be change unless you have a dang good reason for a GM to let you
system Lord Baal is dead
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10959001&postcount=16
I'm with the Op! I mean - I've been around for a while (I played for longer than I've been a memeber of these forums), and it's only been recently that people experience these 'afkers.' I'm definitely not one of them but I do on occasion make a mistake as everyone does... So I just had a thought... "Maybe" I had a thought...
IF PlayerX interacts with NPCx, then PlayerXTotalNPCx = +1, else -1
IF PlayerX attacks NPCx, then PlayerXNPCx = +1, else -1
IF PlayerXTotalNPCx is less than Z then Loot1PlayerX = 0, Else Loot1PlayerX=1
Maybe, just maybe - when loot drops the rate for people whom do not do anything, not even fire their weapon - should be a 'factor' in if they get any loot at all <VBG>
IF PlayerXTotalNPC99 is less than X then FinalLoot = 0
Maybe... Just maybe, when the end reward comes along, if you've either just run around in circles, not firing your weapon 'you' shouldn't get much if any loot!!
Maybe... <VBEG>