Or you know, people could start trying to legitimately teach people instead of berating them mercilessly over 15 marks.
If that is a response to me, I must've not come off as clear as I'd like. Let me try again:
Berating people is not nice; and it is never a good idea. Don't berate people kids!
Now, if you have the time and inclination to (try to) teach 4 complete strangers in a group randomly drawn together by the server, how to work together in a team and accomplish time-sensitive goals, then by all means! Please go ahead.
But my message to the OP (and others with the same sentiment) is this: You don't have to. There are channels dedicated to bringing together people that already know the basics. If PUGing annoys you so much, use them! If, however, for some reason or another you choose to continue to PUG, by all means go ahead. But don't come here posting a fifty billionth and first thread on how angry you are with your PUGmates. Spare us your displeasure, for you dug your own grave.
Or you know, people could start trying to legitimately teach people instead of berating them mercilessly over 15 marks.
I dunno dude, last few times I've played with PUGs it's as if nobody has their chat window open. On the other hand, the last time I played with guys on publicEliteSTF we burned through ISE, CSE, KASE in 15-20 mins. And everyone was friendly and helpful.
I mean, I got healed. Healed. Someone actually noticed I was in trouble and threw a hazard emitters my way that he could have used for himself. It's a good thing I was sitting down when it happened, too, otherwise the sheer shock at witnessing what had transpired would have caused my legs to buckle.
Getting the optional in normal does not prepare you whatsoever for the Elite mode.
In fact go pug a normal sometime, the methods we know for elites are never used in normals, even by experienced players
Why? because normals are so ridiculously easy you can afford to sit and do practically nothing and still not fail it.
Agreed. Especially cure space normal vs. elite. Back before I did elite stfs I would always do cure space, because it was the easiest optional to get. (Followed by Khitomer space then Infected space.) Assuming the same to be true in the elite version, Cure space elite was the first estf I did. I was way wrong, within 5 minutes the Kang was dead. Only ever did it again a month ago, and again a week ago, with some fleet members.
Though, ironically enough my ratio for getting the optionals in pugs of normals is a lot smaller than it is for elites. I remember almost never getting optionals in normals, and now failing them is a rarity in elites.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Can't say I've ever seen anybody try to leech in the borg space eSTFs, ever. Only ever seen it once in Azure nebulae. So it really can't be as widespread as some would have you think as I've pugged literally hundreds of elite STFs.
Either that, or contrary to evidence I'm the luckiest person on the planet.....lol
Can't say I've ever seen anybody try to leech in the borg space eSTFs, ever. Only ever seen it once in Azure nebulae. So it really can't be as widespread as some would have you think as I've pugged literally hundreds of elite STFs.
Either that, or contrary to evidence I'm the luckiest person on the planet.....lol
Thank you! This has been my stance on this whole issue for months now and the response I always get is that I'm either lying or not really pugging.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Thank you! This has been my stance on this whole issue for months now and the response I always get is that I'm either lying or not really pugging.
... Or just really lucky, or haven't noticed it when it was happening. Though I would never go as far as to say that you were lying, either about seeing it or pugging.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
I've seen people leach in PUGs. But it IS somewhat rare and overstated on the forums.
What was common for awhile though was seeing people with numerous ship injuries. I'm talking a lot, as in they must have stockpiled the injuries through multiple missions.
What was common for awhile though was seeing people with numerous ship injuries. I'm talking a lot, as in they must have stockpiled the injuries through multiple missions.
This I kinda understand, there are some causal gamers that do not pay any attention to the buffs/debuff that they have aquired. I was one myself. They may simply not have realized that something was wrong with them or didn't know how much it affected their performance.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Is this even really that much of a problem? I haven't counted how many space STFs I've run, but enough for half a dozen Mk12 sets, and I've only ever run into one of these clowns.
This has been my experience as well.
But clearly, the AFK problem still exists.....regardless of frequency I fear.
In my opinion, Cryptic will have to treat AFKers like they treat exploiters.
They will have to review the activities of those who are reported to them and if necessary, upon review, take drastic action.
Part of the problem, (with all due respect to Cryptic on this fine Christmas evening), has been Cryptic's apathetic attitude towards this problem. (And I say this with love)
To be fair, it may be that they understand that real life problems arise and can sometimes distract those in the middle of a teamed mission.
It may also be because they understand poor connectivity issues, or hardware issues can cause an innocent player to appear like they are AFKing too.
But, I feel that Cryptic has to take it's responsibility more serious on this issue to identify those that AFK with the purpose to exploit.
So then, Step one. Acknowledge that "some" are AFKing purposefully in order to EXPLOIT the system to gain rewards for no effort.
Step two. Cryptic has to post something in the forums stating that they consider intentional AFKing an EXPLOIT and that repeated reports of AFKing will be result in an account review with the appropriate actions taken to those accounts found to be exploiting.
Step three, Cryptic has to actually investigate each report as it would with any alleged exploiter report.
(Assuming that players continue to do their due diligence and continue to report any behavior that can be considered an exploit of course.)
Step four, upon discovering REPEATED and INTENTIONAL exploitative behavior, Cryptic has to take the appropriate actions up to and including the banning of accounts.
I don't believe that any mechanic should replace Cryptic's own responsibility to deal with exploiters.
I don't believe that I as a player, should have to police Cryptic's game for them....unless they wish to compensate me appropriately. (I'll take lock box keys please)
And lastly, I don't believe that Cryptic should give other players power over me to police my activities either. It will be abused.
Make friends, join a fleet that are active STF'ers, Find a Team in the Elite Chat channel - nuff said
END of your agony. :cool:
Except if you're never online at the same time everybody else in your fleet is (for example, if you're in a different time zone or you work nights), or if you're trying to grind something PublicEliteSTF isn't interested in. In the latter case I have consistently found that apart from the Omega rep queues and sometimes Breach, getting a team there is nearly impossible. They'll grind Omega marks 'til the cows come home but nobody wants Fleet, Nukara, Rom, or Dyson.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Here we are 6mos later and still no closer to having anything that even remotely resembles any action from the Devs/GMs towards a solution. Come on guys "REALLY?"
You can make all the lock boxes and rep distractions you want and it does not solve our dilemma. Please give us some serious relief from these AFK'ers. Just this morning I ran into a AFK'er in Elite Infected Space.
Are there any codemonkeys here that can speak to the technical side of how hard would it be to install a "Ignore System" that would prevent that person from being teamed up with a player who has placed them on the ignore list?
Or can we in the very least put a player's name who has been reported for AFKing [within the last 48 hrs] in bright pink letters so the other players have the option to leave without a penalty?
Here we are 6mos later and still no closer to having anything that even remotely resembles any action from the Devs/GMs towards a solution. Come on guys "REALLY?"
You can make all the lock boxes and rep distractions you want and it does not solve our dilemma. Please give us some serious relief from these AFK'ers. Just this morning I ran into a AFK'er in Elite Infected Space.
Are there any codemonkeys here that can speak to the technical side of how hard would it be to install a "Ignore System" that would prevent that person from being teamed up with a player who has placed them on the ignore list?
Or can we in the very least put a player's name who has been reported for AFKing [within the last 48 hrs] in bright pink letters so the other players have the option to leave without a penalty?
I was under the impression that once you had that person on your ignore list, you shouldn't be teamed up with said player in the queues.
All it is is an algorithm which checks yours blocked list against those you are about to team with. If a person is on that list, the algorithm ignores their name when looking for suitable team mates and searches for someone else.
Hence, if a person gets blocked by too many people then their queue times go through the roof as the pool of people who will play with said player is greatly reduced.
The plus side of this is that it does (in most cases) improve the overall attitude of the community as no-one wants to be stuck in a queue for hours on end because they've managed to nark off the rest of the community.
Again, no idea if they actually run that algorithm in this game but those I've chosen to ignore, I've never actually been teamed with them again so I've been either extremely lucky or one is in place.
Well... 1989 posts later... I think it would be cool if AFKers didn't help destroy at least 20 ships for 3 STFs, I think they should lose all of their Omega Marks, ECs, and Dilithium.
I was under the impression that once you had that person on your ignore list, you shouldn't be teamed up with said player in the queues.
All it is is an algorithm which checks yours blocked list against those you are about to team with. If a person is on that list, the algorithm ignores their name when looking for suitable team mates and searches for someone else.
Hence, if a person gets blocked by too many people then their queue times go through the roof as the pool of people who will play with said player is greatly reduced.
The plus side of this is that it does (in most cases) improve the overall attitude of the community as no-one wants to be stuck in a queue for hours on end because they've managed to nark off the rest of the community.
Again, no idea if they actually run that algorithm in this game but those I've chosen to ignore, I've never actually been teamed with them again so I've been either extremely lucky or one is in place.
Only the Devs can answer that one.
So it is within the realm of possibility to do what I orginally posted some 192 pages ago... If someone knows a Dev ask them if the algorithm exsists and how plausible would it be to implement this into our ignore system?
[For those wondering a algorithm is not where Al Gore claims to have invented the Internet.]
We have all been there either in a STF or a PvP. Everybody but one person is pulling thier weight. This person is usually underequipped or inexperienced or just there to farm the reward. Finally I got sick and tired of these types of people and I have devised a simple but elegant solution.
ATTENTION DEVS:
We need to use the ignore list from chat zone to effectively keep people from teaming up. Example: I get teamed up with John Doe, he goes AFK or does some stupid thing like deliberately aggroing enemies. I simply add him to the ignore list, then from now on I can no longer be teamed up with him in a PvP or STF pick up group. This would cut down on a huge number of complaints about behavior and give some relief to players who have the bad luck of being teamed with these AFK'ers. It would be as simple as a few lines of code written into the ignore command. This way these guys will find it harder and harder to do these events because people have blocked them from teaming up. They will eventually change thier behavior or it will take them longer to find a team they haven't made angry. This puts real consequences and accountability back into the game. You TRIBBLE up you suffer the consequences not the other players who got stuck with you. You have one chance to do the right thing use it wisely....
Here is the original idea for those who don't like having to search the thread.
I didn't read the whole thing due to the thread being so old. (This really should be reposted as a newer topic if it is still relevant.)
However I did take a look at some of the more recent posts.
The suggestion that using the ignore list from chat as a way to filter people from grouping is impractical, since the chat part of the client appears to be separate from the actual game client. The chat covers all Cryptic's games, and is usally unaffected by hiccups in the game client (sometimes when I get 'server not responding' I can still chat before I get whacked from the server). Linking the two separate parts is asking for boatloads of trouble and not just for STO.
Another way to deal with the issue is to use a type of tool similar to the chat ignore function. Since chat is separate from the rest of the game mechanics, using an ignore list to keep from being grouped with people a player dislikes would more than likely be quite difficult and have unforeseen side effects.
Instead, create a Do Not Group tool to the queue. This would allow players to designate other players who they would like to avoid for whatever reason. Since it would be part of the queuing system, it would be unaffected by chat ignores. Also such a feature should be activated from within a group setting, and would only take effect once the event is ended, this way the event in progress is not disrupted.
An example of how this might work in practice:
Players A, B, C, D, E, F and G are in the queue.
Player A and G have clear lists
Player B has C and D tagged.
Player C has D Tagged.
Player E has D Tagged.
Players A, F, and G would get in the group with no problems. Player D has 3 players flagging him, player C has B flagging him. So the group that would be formed would be A, C, E, F, and G. B would remain in the queue because he has C flagged, and C has no other flags raised against him. D would also remain in the queue since he is flagged by multiple players.
With a system like this, flagging a player does not affect the player who has been flagged, other than the two players involved will never be in the same public match. It does not add them to the ignore list, it does not bar them from the public queue. The benefit to this is that players can avoid repeat afkers and griefers, and such players will find wait times longer and longer, as the pool of players willing to put up with them shrinks.
As pleasant as this sounds, it can also be a double edged sword. If you have too many players flagged, the chances of you getting into a public match go down with each player added. For things like Crystaline Entity, Mine trap, Big Dig, the 20 man Starbase defense, this would inflate the queue times, and the number of players appearing in the queue.
In the long term this would help weed out the real problem players, those who deliberately grief or routinely go afk. But as with any system, its possible that someone would find a way to abuse it.
I thought I would toss these ideas out as an alternative since 3toK is quite hotly debated.
I keep seeing people bring up the afk issue over and over, but have not seen it myself recently (last 3 months). I queue up for ISE, KSE, Colony Invasion, Fleet Starbase Defense (5 man), and occasionally Storming the spire. I haven't seen anyone afk, but have seen some subpar players. Occasionally the game likes to rearrange hotbars, or send your bridge officers out for drinks when you enter a queued event, and it can take a minute or two to get yourself straightened out, so seeing someone parked at the spawn for a few minutes at the start isn't an issue for me (it is nice when people let others know they are having an issue from the outset so it can be compensated for).
I keep seeing people bring up the afk issue over and over, but have not seen it myself recently (last 3 months). I queue up for ISE, KSE, Colony Invasion, Fleet Starbase Defense (5 man), and occasionally Storming the spire. I haven't seen anyone afk, but have seen some subpar players. Occasionally the game likes to rearrange hotbars, or send your bridge officers out for drinks when you enter a queued event, and it can take a minute or two to get yourself straightened out, so seeing someone parked at the spawn for a few minutes at the start isn't an issue for me (it is nice when people let others know they are having an issue from the outset so it can be compensated for).
This x 100%. If you're having a tech problem, TELL THE REST OF YOUR TEAM so they don't accuse you of AFKing. I once had the batteries in my mouse die, and I've been known to hit really nasty lag spikes.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Holy mother of giant threads, Batman! I'm not reading that!
While AFKers suck, I'd rather somebody AFK then charge into an elite not knowing what the hell they are doing, blowing up the wrong things and totally hosing things.
2 Things. 1. If you do not know the map, run it on normal once or twice. That way you can get a feel for the way the map handles. 2. If you don't know what you are doing still, follow the people who appear to have even a vague idea. Everybody goes left in ISE? Bloody well go left.
Edit: In general, it's slightly better to fail because you didn't do something you should have, than to fail because you did something you shouldn't have.
I once again match my character. Behold the power of PINK!
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
So it is within the realm of possibility to do what I orginally posted some 192 pages ago... If someone knows a Dev ask them if the algorithm exsists and how plausible would it be to implement this into our ignore system?
[For those wondering a algorithm is not where Al Gore claims to have invented the Internet.]
One of the biggest MMO's out there does use that algorithm - It's pretty much 2 lines of code.
Someone posted that all PWE games share the same Friend / Block list for the registered user so if that's the case, it may not be down to Cryptic to whether they can actually use that bit of code.
One of the biggest MMO's out there does use that algorithm - It's pretty much 2 lines of code.
Someone posted that all PWE games share the same Friend / Block list for the registered user so if that's the case, it may not be down to Cryptic to whether they can actually use that bit of code.
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Comments
In fact go pug a normal sometime, the methods we know for elites are never used in normals, even by experienced players
Why? because normals are so ridiculously easy you can afford to sit and do practically nothing and still not fail it.
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If that is a response to me, I must've not come off as clear as I'd like. Let me try again:
Berating people is not nice; and it is never a good idea. Don't berate people kids!
Now, if you have the time and inclination to (try to) teach 4 complete strangers in a group randomly drawn together by the server, how to work together in a team and accomplish time-sensitive goals, then by all means! Please go ahead.
But my message to the OP (and others with the same sentiment) is this: You don't have to. There are channels dedicated to bringing together people that already know the basics. If PUGing annoys you so much, use them! If, however, for some reason or another you choose to continue to PUG, by all means go ahead. But don't come here posting a fifty billionth and first thread on how angry you are with your PUGmates. Spare us your displeasure, for you dug your own grave.
I mean, I got healed. Healed. Someone actually noticed I was in trouble and threw a hazard emitters my way that he could have used for himself. It's a good thing I was sitting down when it happened, too, otherwise the sheer shock at witnessing what had transpired would have caused my legs to buckle.
Agreed. Especially cure space normal vs. elite. Back before I did elite stfs I would always do cure space, because it was the easiest optional to get. (Followed by Khitomer space then Infected space.) Assuming the same to be true in the elite version, Cure space elite was the first estf I did. I was way wrong, within 5 minutes the Kang was dead. Only ever did it again a month ago, and again a week ago, with some fleet members.
Though, ironically enough my ratio for getting the optionals in pugs of normals is a lot smaller than it is for elites. I remember almost never getting optionals in normals, and now failing them is a rarity in elites.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
Either that, or contrary to evidence I'm the luckiest person on the planet.....lol
it can happen as some can open one lockbox and get the ship they wanted on the first try
system Lord Baal is dead
Thank you! This has been my stance on this whole issue for months now and the response I always get is that I'm either lying or not really pugging.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
... Or just really lucky, or haven't noticed it when it was happening. Though I would never go as far as to say that you were lying, either about seeing it or pugging.
Support 90 degree arc limitation on BFaW! Save our ships from looking like flying disco balls of dumb!
What was common for awhile though was seeing people with numerous ship injuries. I'm talking a lot, as in they must have stockpiled the injuries through multiple missions.
This I kinda understand, there are some causal gamers that do not pay any attention to the buffs/debuff that they have aquired. I was one myself. They may simply not have realized that something was wrong with them or didn't know how much it affected their performance.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
END of your agony. :cool:
btw, there is a report afk and gm help options if a player truly is griefing or etc.
This has been my experience as well.
But clearly, the AFK problem still exists.....regardless of frequency I fear.
In my opinion, Cryptic will have to treat AFKers like they treat exploiters.
They will have to review the activities of those who are reported to them and if necessary, upon review, take drastic action.
Part of the problem, (with all due respect to Cryptic on this fine Christmas evening), has been Cryptic's apathetic attitude towards this problem. (And I say this with love)
To be fair, it may be that they understand that real life problems arise and can sometimes distract those in the middle of a teamed mission.
It may also be because they understand poor connectivity issues, or hardware issues can cause an innocent player to appear like they are AFKing too.
But, I feel that Cryptic has to take it's responsibility more serious on this issue to identify those that AFK with the purpose to exploit.
So then, Step one. Acknowledge that "some" are AFKing purposefully in order to EXPLOIT the system to gain rewards for no effort.
Step two. Cryptic has to post something in the forums stating that they consider intentional AFKing an EXPLOIT and that repeated reports of AFKing will be result in an account review with the appropriate actions taken to those accounts found to be exploiting.
Step three, Cryptic has to actually investigate each report as it would with any alleged exploiter report.
(Assuming that players continue to do their due diligence and continue to report any behavior that can be considered an exploit of course.)
Step four, upon discovering REPEATED and INTENTIONAL exploitative behavior, Cryptic has to take the appropriate actions up to and including the banning of accounts.
I don't believe that any mechanic should replace Cryptic's own responsibility to deal with exploiters.
I don't believe that I as a player, should have to police Cryptic's game for them....unless they wish to compensate me appropriately. (I'll take lock box keys please)
And lastly, I don't believe that Cryptic should give other players power over me to police my activities either. It will be abused.
Except if you're never online at the same time everybody else in your fleet is (for example, if you're in a different time zone or you work nights), or if you're trying to grind something PublicEliteSTF isn't interested in. In the latter case I have consistently found that apart from the Omega rep queues and sometimes Breach, getting a team there is nearly impossible. They'll grind Omega marks 'til the cows come home but nobody wants Fleet, Nukara, Rom, or Dyson.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
You can make all the lock boxes and rep distractions you want and it does not solve our dilemma. Please give us some serious relief from these AFK'ers. Just this morning I ran into a AFK'er in Elite Infected Space.
Are there any codemonkeys here that can speak to the technical side of how hard would it be to install a "Ignore System" that would prevent that person from being teamed up with a player who has placed them on the ignore list?
Or can we in the very least put a player's name who has been reported for AFKing [within the last 48 hrs] in bright pink letters so the other players have the option to leave without a penalty?
I was under the impression that once you had that person on your ignore list, you shouldn't be teamed up with said player in the queues.
All it is is an algorithm which checks yours blocked list against those you are about to team with. If a person is on that list, the algorithm ignores their name when looking for suitable team mates and searches for someone else.
Hence, if a person gets blocked by too many people then their queue times go through the roof as the pool of people who will play with said player is greatly reduced.
The plus side of this is that it does (in most cases) improve the overall attitude of the community as no-one wants to be stuck in a queue for hours on end because they've managed to nark off the rest of the community.
Again, no idea if they actually run that algorithm in this game but those I've chosen to ignore, I've never actually been teamed with them again so I've been either extremely lucky or one is in place.
Only the Devs can answer that one.
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
I know, it's harsh. But it would help a little.
So it is within the realm of possibility to do what I orginally posted some 192 pages ago... If someone knows a Dev ask them if the algorithm exsists and how plausible would it be to implement this into our ignore system?
[For those wondering a algorithm is not where Al Gore claims to have invented the Internet.]
Here is the original idea for those who don't like having to search the thread.
However I did take a look at some of the more recent posts.
The suggestion that using the ignore list from chat as a way to filter people from grouping is impractical, since the chat part of the client appears to be separate from the actual game client. The chat covers all Cryptic's games, and is usally unaffected by hiccups in the game client (sometimes when I get 'server not responding' I can still chat before I get whacked from the server). Linking the two separate parts is asking for boatloads of trouble and not just for STO.
I made a suggestion for a similar mechanic quite a while ago in another similar thread (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=834941). I will post the relevant part here...
I keep seeing people bring up the afk issue over and over, but have not seen it myself recently (last 3 months). I queue up for ISE, KSE, Colony Invasion, Fleet Starbase Defense (5 man), and occasionally Storming the spire. I haven't seen anyone afk, but have seen some subpar players. Occasionally the game likes to rearrange hotbars, or send your bridge officers out for drinks when you enter a queued event, and it can take a minute or two to get yourself straightened out, so seeing someone parked at the spawn for a few minutes at the start isn't an issue for me (it is nice when people let others know they are having an issue from the outset so it can be compensated for).
This x 100%. If you're having a tech problem, TELL THE REST OF YOUR TEAM so they don't accuse you of AFKing. I once had the batteries in my mouse die, and I've been known to hit really nasty lag spikes.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
While AFKers suck, I'd rather somebody AFK then charge into an elite not knowing what the hell they are doing, blowing up the wrong things and totally hosing things.
2 Things. 1. If you do not know the map, run it on normal once or twice. That way you can get a feel for the way the map handles. 2. If you don't know what you are doing still, follow the people who appear to have even a vague idea. Everybody goes left in ISE? Bloody well go left.
Edit: In general, it's slightly better to fail because you didn't do something you should have, than to fail because you did something you shouldn't have.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
One of the biggest MMO's out there does use that algorithm - It's pretty much 2 lines of code.
Someone posted that all PWE games share the same Friend / Block list for the registered user so if that's the case, it may not be down to Cryptic to whether they can actually use that bit of code.
Again, only a Dev can answer that.
Beta player - forum knows jack as to when I started
_____________________________________________________
Could we get a Dev to answer that question?
The Department of Temporal Investigations has determined that this thread is a temporal anomaly. It should have died after there were no new posts after 30 days or more. DIT agents have acted to correct the anachronism and the proper timeline has been restored.
Please remember to check the dates of threads; and if you find an old thread which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies or has been inactive for over 30 days before someone replied to it just report it and avoid posting in it per the Temporal Prime Directive.
Please bear in mind that re-posting in "necro'd" threads is considered a form of spamming.
Note that you're more than welcome to start a new timeline -- I mean, thread -- on the topic or to post in an existing active thread.
Live Long and Prosper,
Bluegeek
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek