What's so difficult to understand? This is basic MMO team content design.
Once an event starts, you cannot add new people unless you disband and start over, even if someone disconnects. This scenario is one of the exact reasons why these are built this way.
As an example, people would get to the end of the encounter, team leaders would kick one or more random people, invite their friends to get the reward roll for no effort.
again wow dose this and works well what about that is so difficult to understand?
Never worked like that when I played it. Why would anyone PUG a raid when they could be kicked/replaced right before the boss fight? No one would bother running dungeons. They'd wait for someone to invite them for the final reward roll and save themselves the time/repair costs.
if all you did was raids i will say this i only did LFM dungeons and in LFM dungeons ppl leave for numerous reasons bad internet connection sorry not going to wait 20 minutes to see if you come back taking to long the whole group is bad bad tank bad heals if they didnt have RE Q you never get any thing done now would ya?
when is the last time you played wow befor 2008? if so lot of changes to that game
Are you talking about re-queueing with people who are at the same stage of the instance as you? If so, that's not the same as what was suggested. It's entirely different.
its dose not work like that i know i been pulled in on a last boss countless times never have started it yet and right now in sto that dose all ready happen
ya the game becoming to casual in my book and losing that hard coreness as to why its losing players the big raids now that is not AV only 25 man and that 25 man had a easy 10 man miss them 40 man raids sinf sinf
Be prepared to get flamed by AFK'ers who don't like this idea, and will claim it will be abused.
Hello Mr. Cynic.
It WILL be abused, and this isn't a good solution at all. There have been hundreds of threads on this topic and many good suggestions have been brought forwards and discussed to death. Adding a "kick" button is one of the worst for two reasons.
1) It will be abused (even though only AFKers will say that)
2) It would require a majority you would think. 5 man teams, 4 would need to vote to kick 1. Sounds good yeah? Remember how easy it was to get someone else to listen in ISE not to blow a generator? You noticed how observant the vast majority of casual gamers are? It's just a horrible system. There are much better ways of dealing with AFKers.
The only good thing that happened recently with a PUG was what happened to the AFKer we had with us in Azure Nebula Rescue. Despite this person not moving at all (and he came in with a buttload of damage, so he can't even be bothered to repair his ship), he didn't even try to grab any drops, we were doing well enough. Then the server dropped during the last 30s of the match. We missed out on our points, but so did he.
"Susse-thrai" had been the name bestowed upon her, half in anger, half in affection, by her old crew on Bloodwing; the keen-nosed, cranky, wily old she-beast, never less dangerous than when you thought her defenseless, and always growing new teeth far back in her throat to replace the old ones broken in biting out the last foe's heart. Romulans: left one homeworld, lost another, third time's the charm?
a Vote kick option would be Starfleet Dental's wet dream. They would devote most of there gaming time to griefing people with it. Just look at what they did last week when they discovered the Warbird console ability could be used in social zones and proceded to spen the entire night blowing people up outside of DS9. Just think what they would do with a vote kick feature. The best option is still to not be teamesd with players that you have placed on your ignore list.
Its not "exploiting" as much as harassing and griefing the community. Anything to anger or annoy people. And not just in this game but others. This fleet has a reputation for a reason. Defend it all you want but anyone that has played this game long enough already know the deal.
I'm posting this at great risk to myself and my status within a certain community.
It is time people know the truth.
THAT FLEET has been working with developers to discover and patch exploits. Remember a few weeks ago, there was a massive bug in NWO that forced a rollback? Members of THAT FLEET and SISTER FLEET discovered this bug and alerted the developers who were able to quickly patch it before it could cause problems.
THAT FLEET has run sting operations and honey pots to capture cyber predators that were looking to have inappropriate relations with minors.
THAT FLEET has discovered and reported numerous other bugs to the developers.
THAT FLEET does not tolerate racism, sexism, or homophobia in their chat channels. THAT FLEET reports people spewing that kind of hate on a regular basis. Members are encouraged to observe and report but not engage.
I've said too much and will probably lose my rank over this, but I'm tired of the slander. Many of us read these threads in silence and say nothing, but I felt it needed to be said.
That said, don't PUG because people are terrible. Also, vote kick systems either don't work or are abused. Do what we do, and report these people. Maybe something will be done about it.
It's pretty clear that redsnake721 is as mad as a sack full of badgers. Making up what other players would do is insulting. I actually spent two weeks filing about 20 tickets to get the fools breaching the ToS on the forums to stop ranting crazy gibberish. Yet there's always another crackpot to come out of the woodwork to try to derail threads and troll.
The ignore feature to stop ending up in pugs with afk players is actually from world of ******** and that feature works well. It is something that should be added. That game also has vote kick and that was always abused. Generally the vote kick was started by the worst player in the pug.
You will see some members of Starfleet Dental in pugs on off peak. Generally you will notice us carrying the pug.
I've been pug'ing for a year now and sure I get an occasional afk'er so what.
All the maps are easy mode you just need 3 people who can play to beat them and maybe even only 2.
I carry the exact same weight regardlessly, which is the best I can do with or without them.
In addition to that the emotional state and maturity of gen pop is that they should not have any kind of authority over others.
The number of times people raged over me and tried to hit and run pm me then ignore like it'd would accomplish anything I can't even count.
If those people had a delete that guy's account button they'd load autofire up on the sucka in a heartbeat.
So as it is, and should be, you PUG you risk having to carry other people and play with rookies and emo's - if you can't handle that use your fleet, chat channels or friend list.
Never worked like that when I played it. Why would anyone PUG a raid when they could be kicked/replaced right before the boss fight? No one would bother running dungeons. They'd wait for someone to invite them for the final reward roll and save themselves the time/repair costs.
When I played wow raids were on a weekly cooldown. So if you played a raid that week you were locked to that specific instance as soon as you beat a boss.
If you were troll kicked from a locked raid you would be locked to an empty dungeon for a week if it was completed. Heroic dungeons would be a day cooldown.
There would still be a lot of pugging regardless of the risk. Why? because people needed the gear and your chance of being trolled was slim. If you weren't geared for an encounter that's a different story and by all rights you shouldn't be there.
It's not to be mean, but when there's an enrage timer that requires 2k dps from everyone then you need 2k dps. That's just the math game.
In STO you don't have to worry about long cooldowns like that for instances. So wtf is the problem with votekick?
Here my 2 cents on AFkers solution: Just remove the penalty timer of leaving pug, so ppl can leave without penalty. Basically, just reverse it to b4 the penalty timer implemented. This is the best solution since it has worked b4. We all know the cryptic recording track of implement new feature: bugs lol.
With no penalty timer, ppl can leave if they do not like what they r seeing in the pug. Hence, less rage and afkers can stay in the pug as long as they like lol. Don't you think it's a simple and elegant solution?
It's kinda ironic imo. We didn't have afkers rage b4 the penalty timer, and it was implemented 'cause of ppl leaving the pug was complained. Hence, kicking option wouldn't be a solution either. I've already foreseen some of the abuses from the kick option. The forum will be filled with them. Let face it, there will always be abuses in game. Therefore, we should choose the best and less complicated solution.
In brief, devs should just reverse back to b4 penalty timer. There is no coding, so there is no bug. Sure ppl can leave in the mid of the pug, so can every1 else.
*** I'm pretty sure that afkers in pug r over exaggerated cause I hardly encounter them. I noticed most ppl that posted about afkers were too sensitive. They probably have problems irl and cant handle ingame afkers stress imo. Also, server stability may be blamed for some afker case 'cause sometimes, ppl got disconnected or the client crashes. Players' avatar would be stuck in game for a while unless they logged back.
If they would remove the penalty timer a lot of people would leave right at the beginning just because they don't like the team for different reasons.
But most of the time because they think they are better as the other 4 players and don't have time to play with "noobs".
Those snobs would hopp pugs until they find a team they like and the left behind 4 players would always have to decide to either try it with 4 players or leave and re-queue too.
And I bet you would be one of the first who complains here again in the forum.
There's a much simpler solution:
Give the other players the option to flag a player as afk and to avoid exploitation from an angry players give the player flagged as afk a chance to dispute those claims.
For example a popup in which he has 30 seconds to type in the number code displayed to verify that a human is at the computer.
If the timer runs out, the player gets booted and a penalty.
If they would remove the penalty timer a lot of people would leave right at the beginning just because they don't like the team for different reasons.
But most of the time because they think they are better as the other 4 players and don't have time to play with "noobs".
Those snobs would hopp pugs until they find a team they like and the left behind 4 players would always have to decide to either try it with 4 players or leave and re-queue too.
And I bet you would be one of the first who complains here again in the forum.
There's a much simpler solution:
Give the other players the option to flag a player as afk and to avoid exploitation from an angry players give the player flagged as afk a chance to dispute those claims.
For example a popup in which he has 30 seconds to type in the number code displayed to verify that a human is at the computer.
If the timer runs out, the player gets booted and a penalty.
That could cause some potential griefing in PvP matches (interrupting/distracting a player as he's about to have to deal with an alpha strike, as an example), but the initial premise has some merit. Perhaps a better idea would start the same with flagging a player as AFK, and if the player doesn't use a ship power/kit ability or something along those lines in the next 30 seconds to 1 minute then he/she gets kicked. If a player is actively participating in a queued event, then it's highly likely he/she is using such abilities and the flag would be removed pretty quickly, and it's less likely to break the flow of the game.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
As I said, it's the fastest and best fix for afkers. What you r asking requires coding and time... not mentioning all the bugs. Sure, ppl can hog pug but by doing so, they suffer from some delay too no?
So what if ppl hogging the pug to find the best team. I don't have problem with afkers since I hardly encounter them. However, I have plenty of noobs in eSTF.
Noobs should stay in normal STF until they learn how to play eSTF because their noob playing that ruin the pug. Afkers may be annoying, but they do not ruin the pug. That's why I do not play eSFT - cure found (space) and eSTFs ground in pug 'cause they have 99% of fail rate since noobs don't know what to do. Imagine some noob still kill the cube in cure found after ppl ask not to do it.
The new nukara (destruction) pug is another example. Most players just run around and try to kill the tholians. I bet they didn't play any nukara mission prior to the implement of nukara pugs. Also, most ppl do neither speak English or read the chat because I've tried to tell them to stay at the consoles and active it... not to run amok and ruin the mission. Some even try to join the pug without ev suit. Nukara pugs have a 99% failure rate with anything less than 5 players. Hence, we usually formed more than 2 groups while playing it on Nukara.
In brief, reverse back to b4 penalty timer is a 2-birds-1-stone solution imo. No more annoying players. It's the same thing as ignoring a player. If you see the player that you do not like, you can just simply leave. The penalty timer also create another problem for players. Sometimes, players join an eSTF in mid-battle 'cause some players were so frustrated with the noob they got, so they left. So my question is where is the fairness for the new player who join that pug? The only options are: waste lot time trying to finish it or quit. Quitting is still the best option in this case since the other option may require more time. Furthermore, quitting also means less stress and rage imo.
*** Noobs aren't necessary mean bad equipment since I've seen players flying in good ships and play like a noob in eSTF. The worst players are noobs that didn't bother trying to learn how to play. When I join a new pug in any mmo, I always tell others that I'm noob and ask them to show the rope. That's what ppl should do in a team oriented instance. Not telling ppl aint hiding the fact that you're a noob since you will probably ruin the instance with ur noobness anyway.
I have no complain about afkers or penalty timer since I don't really have any major issue with them. In fact, I do not have any problem with STO... except the bugs and server stability created by the implementing of new features. Therefore, the whole purpose of my thread is to find a quick n best fix b4 cryptic doing something that causes server instability and bugs.
We all know pretty well their track record. I rather have afkers and noobs than not able to play.
Zero to very little participation(IE, afk at the zone entrance) = 0 reward. Not able to participate in need/greed rolls.
Measurable by damage output or effective buffing or healing of others.
Little to medium participation(someone perhaps undergeared or not optimized in build)= Standardized sub-par reward. Only able to participate in need/greed rolls where participation is over a certain percentage.
Again, measurable by damage output or effective buffs/heals to teammates.
Complete participation = full rewards. Able to need/greed all rolls.
Anything over a certain baseline percentage of damage output/heals/buffs meets this requirement.
Zero to very little participation(IE, afk at the zone entrance) = 0 reward. Not able to participate in need/greed rolls.
Measurable by damage output or effective buffing or healing of others.
Little to medium participation(someone perhaps undergeared or not optimized in build)= Standardized sub-par reward. Only able to participate in need/greed rolls where participation is over a certain percentage.
Again, measurable by damage output or effective buffs/heals to teammates.
Complete participation = full rewards. Able to need/greed all rolls.
Anything over a certain baseline percentage of damage output/heals/buffs meets this requirement.
That could cause some potential griefing in PvP matches (interrupting/distracting a player as he's about to have to deal with an alpha strike, as an example)
Why on earth would you wanna interrupt/distract a teammate during pvp?
And you don't have the enemys in your team to flag them afk
Perhaps a better idea would start the same with flagging a player as AFK, and if the player doesn't use a ship power/kit ability or something along those lines.
Way too easy to get a script which activates some powers from time to time....
Zero to very little participation(IE, afk at the zone entrance) = 0 reward. Not able to participate in need/greed rolls.
Measurable by damage output or effective buffing or healing of others.
Little to medium participation(someone perhaps undergeared or not optimized in build)= Standardized sub-par reward. Only able to participate in need/greed rolls where participation is over a certain percentage.
Again, measurable by damage output or effective buffs/heals to teammates.
Complete participation = full rewards. Able to need/greed all rolls.
Anything over a certain baseline percentage of damage output/heals/buffs meets this requirement.
If they would get this to work.
A system like this is active in Crytaline Entity, Gorn Minefield, Big Dig, Klingon Scout Force and others.
And the results which place you get is way too random.
I remember getting #1 place one time during the crystaline entity event with my farming char which only had a lev40 ship with its standard grey weapons and basicly just autofiring on the entity.
Comments
again wow dose this and works well what about that is so difficult to understand?
system Lord Baal is dead
Then don't PuG with them! :P
PuG with only those people on your friends list or in your fleet!
Geee, see how easy that was? I solved 2 problems with 1 solution and it doesn't require any changes to OUR game!
if all you did was raids i will say this i only did LFM dungeons and in LFM dungeons ppl leave for numerous reasons bad internet connection sorry not going to wait 20 minutes to see if you come back taking to long the whole group is bad bad tank bad heals if they didnt have RE Q you never get any thing done now would ya?
when is the last time you played wow befor 2008? if so lot of changes to that game
system Lord Baal is dead
its dose not work like that i know i been pulled in on a last boss countless times never have started it yet and right now in sto that dose all ready happen
system Lord Baal is dead
There have indeed been many changes in WOW.....
http://paritynews.com/business/item/1053-world-of-********-loses-13-million-subscribers-in-2013
ya the game becoming to casual in my book and losing that hard coreness as to why its losing players the big raids now that is not AV only 25 man and that 25 man had a easy 10 man miss them 40 man raids sinf sinf
system Lord Baal is dead
system Lord Baal is dead
Hello Mr. Cynic.
It WILL be abused, and this isn't a good solution at all. There have been hundreds of threads on this topic and many good suggestions have been brought forwards and discussed to death. Adding a "kick" button is one of the worst for two reasons.
1) It will be abused (even though only AFKers will say that)
2) It would require a majority you would think. 5 man teams, 4 would need to vote to kick 1. Sounds good yeah? Remember how easy it was to get someone else to listen in ISE not to blow a generator? You noticed how observant the vast majority of casual gamers are? It's just a horrible system. There are much better ways of dealing with AFKers.
Kirk's Protege.
Romulans: left one homeworld, lost another, third time's the charm?
I'm posting this at great risk to myself and my status within a certain community.
It is time people know the truth.
THAT FLEET has been working with developers to discover and patch exploits. Remember a few weeks ago, there was a massive bug in NWO that forced a rollback? Members of THAT FLEET and SISTER FLEET discovered this bug and alerted the developers who were able to quickly patch it before it could cause problems.
THAT FLEET has run sting operations and honey pots to capture cyber predators that were looking to have inappropriate relations with minors.
THAT FLEET has discovered and reported numerous other bugs to the developers.
THAT FLEET does not tolerate racism, sexism, or homophobia in their chat channels. THAT FLEET reports people spewing that kind of hate on a regular basis. Members are encouraged to observe and report but not engage.
I've said too much and will probably lose my rank over this, but I'm tired of the slander. Many of us read these threads in silence and say nothing, but I felt it needed to be said.
That said, don't PUG because people are terrible. Also, vote kick systems either don't work or are abused. Do what we do, and report these people. Maybe something will be done about it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The ignore feature to stop ending up in pugs with afk players is actually from world of ******** and that feature works well. It is something that should be added. That game also has vote kick and that was always abused. Generally the vote kick was started by the worst player in the pug.
You will see some members of Starfleet Dental in pugs on off peak. Generally you will notice us carrying the pug.
Not every person who sees the very much real flaws of a kick system, is an AFKer.
A kick system WILL be abused, it will be used by some to kick people they don't like or to grief them.
AFKers are a problem, yes, but introducing a system that will be thoroughly abused as it is in most games it is present in, is not the ideal solution.
I've been pug'ing for a year now and sure I get an occasional afk'er so what.
All the maps are easy mode you just need 3 people who can play to beat them and maybe even only 2.
I carry the exact same weight regardlessly, which is the best I can do with or without them.
In addition to that the emotional state and maturity of gen pop is that they should not have any kind of authority over others.
The number of times people raged over me and tried to hit and run pm me then ignore like it'd would accomplish anything I can't even count.
If those people had a delete that guy's account button they'd load autofire up on the sucka in a heartbeat.
So as it is, and should be, you PUG you risk having to carry other people and play with rookies and emo's - if you can't handle that use your fleet, chat channels or friend list.
me and you dont see eye to eye on a lot but we do on this sub
system Lord Baal is dead
I just hope for yours and everyone elses's sake you don't find out the hard way.
ummm ya i did called wow and works well
system Lord Baal is dead
When I played wow raids were on a weekly cooldown. So if you played a raid that week you were locked to that specific instance as soon as you beat a boss.
If you were troll kicked from a locked raid you would be locked to an empty dungeon for a week if it was completed. Heroic dungeons would be a day cooldown.
There would still be a lot of pugging regardless of the risk. Why? because people needed the gear and your chance of being trolled was slim. If you weren't geared for an encounter that's a different story and by all rights you shouldn't be there.
It's not to be mean, but when there's an enrage timer that requires 2k dps from everyone then you need 2k dps. That's just the math game.
In STO you don't have to worry about long cooldowns like that for instances. So wtf is the problem with votekick?
With no penalty timer, ppl can leave if they do not like what they r seeing in the pug. Hence, less rage and afkers can stay in the pug as long as they like lol. Don't you think it's a simple and elegant solution?
It's kinda ironic imo. We didn't have afkers rage b4 the penalty timer, and it was implemented 'cause of ppl leaving the pug was complained. Hence, kicking option wouldn't be a solution either. I've already foreseen some of the abuses from the kick option. The forum will be filled with them. Let face it, there will always be abuses in game. Therefore, we should choose the best and less complicated solution.
In brief, devs should just reverse back to b4 penalty timer. There is no coding, so there is no bug. Sure ppl can leave in the mid of the pug, so can every1 else.
*** I'm pretty sure that afkers in pug r over exaggerated cause I hardly encounter them. I noticed most ppl that posted about afkers were too sensitive. They probably have problems irl and cant handle ingame afkers stress imo. Also, server stability may be blamed for some afker case 'cause sometimes, ppl got disconnected or the client crashes. Players' avatar would be stuck in game for a while unless they logged back.
But most of the time because they think they are better as the other 4 players and don't have time to play with "noobs".
Those snobs would hopp pugs until they find a team they like and the left behind 4 players would always have to decide to either try it with 4 players or leave and re-queue too.
And I bet you would be one of the first who complains here again in the forum.
There's a much simpler solution:
Give the other players the option to flag a player as afk and to avoid exploitation from an angry players give the player flagged as afk a chance to dispute those claims.
For example a popup in which he has 30 seconds to type in the number code displayed to verify that a human is at the computer.
If the timer runs out, the player gets booted and a penalty.
That could cause some potential griefing in PvP matches (interrupting/distracting a player as he's about to have to deal with an alpha strike, as an example), but the initial premise has some merit. Perhaps a better idea would start the same with flagging a player as AFK, and if the player doesn't use a ship power/kit ability or something along those lines in the next 30 seconds to 1 minute then he/she gets kicked. If a player is actively participating in a queued event, then it's highly likely he/she is using such abilities and the flag would be removed pretty quickly, and it's less likely to break the flow of the game.
The universe has a wonderful sense of humor. The trick is learning how to take a joke.
So what if ppl hogging the pug to find the best team. I don't have problem with afkers since I hardly encounter them. However, I have plenty of noobs in eSTF.
Noobs should stay in normal STF until they learn how to play eSTF because their noob playing that ruin the pug. Afkers may be annoying, but they do not ruin the pug. That's why I do not play eSFT - cure found (space) and eSTFs ground in pug 'cause they have 99% of fail rate since noobs don't know what to do. Imagine some noob still kill the cube in cure found after ppl ask not to do it.
The new nukara (destruction) pug is another example. Most players just run around and try to kill the tholians. I bet they didn't play any nukara mission prior to the implement of nukara pugs. Also, most ppl do neither speak English or read the chat because I've tried to tell them to stay at the consoles and active it... not to run amok and ruin the mission. Some even try to join the pug without ev suit. Nukara pugs have a 99% failure rate with anything less than 5 players. Hence, we usually formed more than 2 groups while playing it on Nukara.
In brief, reverse back to b4 penalty timer is a 2-birds-1-stone solution imo. No more annoying players. It's the same thing as ignoring a player. If you see the player that you do not like, you can just simply leave. The penalty timer also create another problem for players. Sometimes, players join an eSTF in mid-battle 'cause some players were so frustrated with the noob they got, so they left. So my question is where is the fairness for the new player who join that pug? The only options are: waste lot time trying to finish it or quit. Quitting is still the best option in this case since the other option may require more time. Furthermore, quitting also means less stress and rage imo.
*** Noobs aren't necessary mean bad equipment since I've seen players flying in good ships and play like a noob in eSTF. The worst players are noobs that didn't bother trying to learn how to play. When I join a new pug in any mmo, I always tell others that I'm noob and ask them to show the rope. That's what ppl should do in a team oriented instance. Not telling ppl aint hiding the fact that you're a noob since you will probably ruin the instance with ur noobness anyway.
We all know pretty well their track record. I rather have afkers and noobs than not able to play.
Implement a conditional reward formula.
Zero to very little participation(IE, afk at the zone entrance) = 0 reward. Not able to participate in need/greed rolls.
Measurable by damage output or effective buffing or healing of others.
Little to medium participation(someone perhaps undergeared or not optimized in build)= Standardized sub-par reward. Only able to participate in need/greed rolls where participation is over a certain percentage.
Again, measurable by damage output or effective buffs/heals to teammates.
Complete participation = full rewards. Able to need/greed all rolls.
Anything over a certain baseline percentage of damage output/heals/buffs meets this requirement.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
This ^^^^ is a good idea.
Why on earth would you wanna interrupt/distract a teammate during pvp?
And you don't have the enemys in your team to flag them afk
Way too easy to get a script which activates some powers from time to time....
If they would get this to work.
A system like this is active in Crytaline Entity, Gorn Minefield, Big Dig, Klingon Scout Force and others.
And the results which place you get is way too random.
I remember getting #1 place one time during the crystaline entity event with my farming char which only had a lev40 ship with its standard grey weapons and basicly just autofiring on the entity.