STO going downhill?

stoshonuff

Is it me or has STO started to go seriously downhill since PWE took over? Between all the stuipid gimmics to get cash from people, like the rediculous lock boxes with utterly frustrating uselessness, the "if you buy this pack 1000 times you MIGHT get something cool" cstore packs, the 8000 refinment limit, and not the utter faiure of their servers. The game has drastically dropped in quality since the PWE takeover. Granted we may not have STO if it were not for PWE, but I'm starting to think STO would have been better off in the hands of a more capable studio or a more compitant Dev team.

PWE you FAIL

wixiban

This is really starting to become annoying, everyday there is at least a few new threads from people who say they don't like this, that this is going downhill Blah, Blah, Blah.

Enough is enough, The devs are doing what they are instructed to do, Cryptic is taking its direction from PWE who are now the people in charge. If you don't like go elsewhere.

The game is F2P - that means they need to generate revenue by whatever means possible, if that is changing the lockboxes to Doff packs then that's fine with most of us as we use doffs in game, we buy and trade doffs and if you can get an added bonus on a Ship or console you won't here many complaints as you are still getting what you paid for.

to recap, stop with all the Anti Dev, Anti Cryptic, Anti PWE talk, if you don't like it go elsewhere

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

eiledon

if the game (and cryptic) were doing such a bang up job and making money for Atari it wouldnt have been up for sale

At around May last year Atari's yearly financial report showed that they were parting ways with Cryptic, The official reasons given for the split were Atari?s intentions to release "fewer but more profitable" titles and expand into "casual online and mobile games," but it more likely had something to do with the reported $25 million Cryptic have lost Atari in the previous couple of years.

So this was before PWE bailed them out (by purchasing them from atari). Video Games are a business. If PWE hadn't bought them there is a very good chance that there would be no STO as we know it (as you accept). PWE know how to monetize their games. They are good at it. If it keeps the IP alive and playable then I am all for a little gambling (but i prefer the doff pack scenario to the lockboxes). If people want to spend money on the shiny shiny then let them. You get to play for free if you want.

thomas12255

STO is looking up right now tbh.

thomas12255

eiledon wrote: »

if the game (and cryptic) were doing such a bang up job and making money for Atari it wouldnt have been up for sale

At around May last year Atari?s yearly financial report showed that they were parting ways with Cryptic, The official reasons given for the split were Atari?s intentions to release ?fewer but more profitable? titles and expand into ?casual online and mobile games,? but it more likely had something to do with the reported $25 million Cryptic have lost Atari in the previous couple of years.

So this was before PWE bailed them out (by purchasing them from atari). Video Games are a business. If PWE hadn't bought them there is a very good chance that there would be no STO as we know it. Think about that. PWE know how to monetize their games. They are good at it. If it keeps the IP alive and playable then I am all for a little gambling (but i prefer the doff pack scenario to the lockboxes). If people want to spend money on the shiny shiny then let them. You get to play for free if you want.

Atari sold Cryptic to PWE because Cryptic was the only good studio they had to sell to prevent Atari from going bankrupt.

tanith1989

were cryptic not making money for ATARI. i remember reading somewhere that they were

eiledon

i think its safe to say if pay to play was making money the game would still be pay to play. it's not it's free to play, pay to win (if you believe every other post about the latest boutique item/ship). I think it's the IP that is valuable - Star Trek and Neverwinter (looks promising).

anazonda

thomas12255 wrote: »

Atari sold Cryptic to PWE because Cryptic was the only good studio they had to sell to prevent Atari from going bankrupt.

Yea... I keep wondering why people keep ignoring that fact?

It's well documented.

januhull

I don't see how the game is going downhill at all.

As far as PWE's management thus far, lets consider:

1) The Feds got a carrier...something more than a few of us have wanted since Day 1, and that Cryptic was very adamant against.

2) New content IS being added. The Featured series were a nice idea, but if the ROI isn't paying out, go on ahead and find one that does work. That's just good business sense.

3) The F2P system does not, IN ANY WAY, restrict silver players from ANY mission content in the game, period. I've seen a number of other IPs gate their quest/mission content behind pay to play walls, and if you think these little lockboxes are a money grab, you ain't seen jack.

4) Not every bit of new gear bling is gated behind pay to play. The Vault STF with the Reman sets, the Defera Invasion zone and its gear sets, the Borg STFs... You have to work to earn them, often repeating instances more times than your sanity wants to remember, but welcome to MMOs. Grinding is part of the experience.

5) About the lockbox lottery ships, let's consider them for a bit. The Jem-bug, the Galor, the Marauder, and the Freighter. None of these ships are in ANY way end all be all, must have or the game's unwinnable, types of ships. Not one. They're unique, they're expensive, but not one is in any way the "One ship to rule them all". No one ever said they have to satisfy anyone's sense of entitlement to have every toy in the box.

6) About the lockboxes in general. If you don't like them, DISPOSE OF THEM. I really don't get all the grouching about them. The damned things are purely voluntary, and nothing in them is in any way necessary to participate fully in the game. So if they bother you that much, then leave'em on the field... Don't pick them up, don't roll for them in STFs, just ignore the fact that they exist and get on with your life.

Seriously, what has PWE done since January that's really made our lives in game all that bloody miserable? I don't get it.

beezle23

januhull wrote: »

I don't see how the game is going downhill at all.

As far as PWE's management thus far, lets consider:

1) The Feds got a carrier...something more than a few of us have wanted since Day 1, and that Cryptic was very adamant against.

2) New content IS being added. The Featured series were a nice idea, but if the ROI isn't paying out, go on ahead and find one that does work. That's just good business sense.

3) The F2P system does not, IN ANY WAY, restrict silver players from ANY mission content in the game, period. I've seen a number of other IPs gate their quest/mission content behind pay to play walls, and if you think these little lockboxes are a money grab, you ain't seen jack.

Ah, WoW and expansion packs -- "you no buy expansion pack, you no go here."

januhull wrote: »

4) Not every bit of new gear bling is gated behind pay to play. The Vault STF with the Reman sets, the Defera Invasion zone and its gear sets, the Borg STFs... You have to work to earn them, often repeating instances more times than your sanity wants to remember, but welcome to MMOs. Grinding is part of the experience..

And even the pay stuff is grindable (albeit slowly) thanks to the dil exchange.

ussberlin

They made this **** new Forum and i lost all my posts... back to 7 maybe now they made it harder to go from the english to german part of forum. Because of them my Ingame Acc has an other name now then the forum ...
.. have to buy Zen now and make CP out of it ...
and so on

Free to Play sucks
PWE even more

eiledon

http://www.atari.com/sites/default/files/PR_ATAR_FY10-11_20110517_1.pdf

read page 3 about Cryptic being discontinued due to being divested from atari. For the lazy I have pulled out the important bit in this image Cryptic Key Financial Data which shows for FY 10/11 Cryptic made a full year loss of Euro 6.2million, for the previous year FY 09/10 the loss was Euro 19.4million. So yes they made more money in 10/11, but not looks to be too little too late for Atari.

captainrevo1

ive seen an improvement in quality.

the work done to improve the game for free to play with the calendar system, the journal, the improved task forces really helped the game.

new ships and locations look as beautiful as anything we have seen before. the last FE had a tone of VO and cutscenes and new tech. the alpha mission went over very well. there has been events, ships or content updates almost every week in some form or another. the borg ground invasion is a great zone. the doff system is brilliant. pvp is finally being worked on

the game is totally free to play, and you can even trade dilithium for c-points so of course there will be a trade off. really think about that. the whole game is free and anything can be earned for free. thats pretty awesome. yes the limit is a pain but you can even get round that with multiple characters. the harder you work the better you will be.

ok there have been some mistakes. lock boxes and time gated content have not gone over well (although their metrics seem to support them by all accounts) but they seem to be learning. the doff/lock box combo are proving popular. they are addressing the time gate thing and season 6 is looking very nice on tribble.

the dev team has doubled which is vital to the future and that should really start to pay off as soon as they are all trained and up to speed.

I know the forums mess and lock boxes (which are not just a PW thing as everyone seems to be getting in on the act) have soured peoples views but the devs are still the devs. they have a decent sized team and seem to be getting good funding. the game is only going to get better.

beezle23

captainrevo1 wrote: »

I know the forums mess and lock boxes (which are not just a PW thing as everyone seems to be getting in on the act) have soured peoples views but the devs are still the devs. they have a decent sized team and seem to be getting good funding. the game is only going to get better.

And I think the lockboxes will be phased out eventually, Doff-pack bonuses seem to be the way of the future.

oridjerraa

januhull wrote: »

I don't see how the game is going downhill at all.

As far as PWE's management thus far, lets consider:

1) The Feds got a carrier...something more than a few of us have wanted since Day 1, and that Cryptic was very adamant against.

2) New content IS being added. The Featured series were a nice idea, but if the ROI isn't paying out, go on ahead and find one that does work. That's just good business sense.

3) The F2P system does not, IN ANY WAY, restrict silver players from ANY mission content in the game, period. I've seen a number of other IPs gate their quest/mission content behind pay to play walls, and if you think these little lockboxes are a money grab, you ain't seen jack.

4) Not every bit of new gear bling is gated behind pay to play. The Vault STF with the Reman sets, the Defera Invasion zone and its gear sets, the Borg STFs... You have to work to earn them, often repeating instances more times than your sanity wants to remember, but welcome to MMOs. Grinding is part of the experience.

5) About the lockbox lottery ships, let's consider them for a bit. The Jem-bug, the Galor, the Marauder, and the Freighter. None of these ships are in ANY way end all be all, must have or the game's unwinnable, types of ships. Not one. They're unique, they're expensive, but not one is in any way the "One ship to rule them all". No one ever said they have to satisfy anyone's sense of entitlement to have every toy in the box.

6) About the lockboxes in general. If you don't like them, DISPOSE OF THEM. I really don't get all the grouching about them. The damned things are purely voluntary, and nothing in them is in any way necessary to participate fully in the game. So if they bother you that much, then leave'em on the field... Don't pick them up, don't roll for them in STFs, just ignore the fact that they exist and get on with your life.

Seriously, what has PWE done since January that's really made our lives in game all that bloody miserable? I don't get it.

Lockboxes as a content choice don't bother me. Lockboxes and the way loot spawns in space and ground, however, greatly disappoints me. Regardless of container type, its so anti-immersive to me to have stuff spawn like that. I have often thought that there should be wreckage from space combat that our starships could scan for finding loot. Same deal on the ground, give those awesome Tricorders a job scanning bodies(no loot for vaporize, sorry).

My Idea for a lockbox; first its not in a box, its wreckage, second it tells you what it is when you scan it(no more lottery) and third the cost is in C-points that is paid when(if)you decide to beam the loot aboard.

utio

Nah, it was already going downhill long before pwe got involved. Don't think it's too bad ATM though.

emperorandy

going down hill? picking up speed! MOMENTUM

eiledon

it's amazing how many chicken littles come out when things change. it has ever been the way. anyway I am out of here. pointless discussion is pointless.

zahinder

While I have some big problems with lockboxes and packs with the gambling, I don't like this forum functionality, and I am exhaustedly unhappy about the state of KDF...

STO is the best game of its kind, it has a lot of cool features, great material, and a lot of good/smart design decisions.

There's a lot of room for improvement, but some of the improvements seem to be things that we can reasonably expect -- I expect they will make some improvements to PvP, add content (slowly), and so on.

While I loathe the gambling, it's certainly lucrative (which is why people DO IT), so I don't expect that to change.


Also, personally, I've put in some rather odd requests/tickets to PWE that I totally didn't expect any activity on, and PWE not only answered them promptly but went above and beyond what I ever expected them to do for me.

So at least in MY experience, PWE has been one of the more responsive/helpful ticket experiences I've had in MMOs. (Granted, my experience with MMO customer service has generally been abysmal)


In short, I think STO is a great game and gotten better overall, and I also think the PWE acquisition is, on the whole, a good thing for Cryptic.

zahinder

Additional thought:
While I loathe gambling in my beloved Star Trek, I vastly prefer doff packs simply because they are more inobtrusive.

I still think it's gambling and sucks unfortunate people into bad decisions, but at least I'm not tripping over lockboxes and getting constant popups DO YOU WANT TO ROLL ON BLARGLEFLARGLE BOX NEED/GREED/PASS in a STF when I really need to be focussing on killing stuff a lot.

So I appreciate at the very least the QOL aspect of doff packs (and presumably other packs in the future -- I can imagine all sorts of other fun grab-bags of stuff).

januhull

beezle23 wrote: »

Ah, WoW and expansion packs -- "you no buy expansion pack, you no go here."



And even the pay stuff is grindable (albeit slowly) thanks to the dil exchange.

Good point on #1, although the one I had in mind was LOTRO. The freebie part of that game, versus the sheer number of quest packs you need to buy are staggering.

As for #2, that's a pretty good point to bring up, especially since Golds and Lifers get stipends...

cormoran

wixiban wrote: »

to recap, stop with all the Anti Dev, Anti Cryptic, Anti PWE talk, if you don't like it go elsewhere

Don't tell people to 'go elsewhere'. You're not doing Cryptic or PWE any favours by pushing their customers away. Perhaps you could even take a piece of your own advice and simply not open threads you know you won't like.

wixiban

cormoran wrote: »

Don't tell people to 'go elsewhere'. You're not doing Cryptic or PWE any favours by pushing their customers away. Perhaps you could even take a piece of your own advice and simply not open threads you know you won't like.

I have no problem not opening threads that don't appeal to me - that been said, I come to the STO forms for information on the game, help out people with questions that I can answer and just general chat.

I am not huge poster like some of the community, put I find myself getting really ticked off that everyday I check the forums and there are another handful of threads all complaining because someone feels that they have been poorly treated or getting shafted or whatever and it is that, that is dragging STO downhill the constant moaning and whining about one thing or another.

I am all for people expressing there concerns with the game if there is a genuine issue, but the comments on these "new forums" since they went live is just getting out of hand.

And that's what also turns people away.

ussberlin

Because there was no need for a new Forum and this **** Fakebook **** i dont need too.

tvlar

"Like it or leave it " ?
While I agree that many posts in the Forums fall under the "complaining for the sake of complaining" variety, MANY are expressing their concern for the future of the only accessible form of a cultural "hearthstone".
Every misstep, screwup, Q&A foul-up, is scrutinized by individuals who have made the science, principles and background of the IP, a part of their own personal lives.
I would gently suggest that the current licensees of the IP consider that the collective personal financial investment of the Star Trek fanbase, across time, exceeds the overall value of the PWE company.
Aligning themselves with the expectations of that financial juggernaut may seem the more financially prudent, long term winning strategy.

mikewendell

stoshonuff wrote: »

the "if you buy this pack 1000 times you MIGHT get something cool" cstore pack

Actually most of us here in the forums were quite happy with that promotion. You bought a pack of doffs and no matter what, you got the doffs. The ship and the lobis were just extra bonuses. You got what you paid for.

It was a lot better than the lockboxes. With those there was a very good chance that what you received was worth much less than the cost of the master key you had to purchase to open it up.

Because there was no need for a new Forum

Been much discussed. The forums were moved over so that all of the PW forums were in one location and on one platform.

A better response to that would be to point out that the move was onto a much older version of the forums and many features were lost in the move.

It does little good to complain about the wrong thing.

utio

tvlar wrote: »

"Like it or leave it " ?
While I agree that many posts in the Forums fall under the "complaining for the sake of complaining" variety, MANY are expressing their concern for the future of the only accessible form of a cultural "hearthstone".
Every misstep, screwup, Q&A foul-up, is scrutinized by individuals who have made the science, principles and background of the IP, a part of their own personal lives.
I would gently suggest that the current licensees of the IP consider that the collective personal financial investment of the Star Trek fanbase, across time, exceeds the overall value of the PWE company.
Aligning themselves with the expectations of that financial juggernaut may seem the more financially prudent, long term winning strategy.

This game isn't the only accessible form. You can see the tv shows every day on tv, you can buy the books in a store, watch the films/shows on DVD or blue ray, play other star trek games. Oh, and isn't there a new star trek film being made as we speak? Please don't say it doesn't count because of whatshisface who's directing, it's a new star trek film!

Every perceived mistake being made in this game by cryptic or pwe may well be being logged by some of the players, but you need to realise star trek, the trek you cherish, not the new style, is a niche market now. It's not as mainstream as it once was. That's why they don't make the shows, the old style films, etc. The old trek has had its day. You may see it as a cultural hearthstone, and that's cool, but you aren't in the majority.

People need to be realistic. Old trek is not going to bring in the numbers anymore, and you are lucky a star trek mmo even exists.

twg042370

wixiban wrote: »

This is really starting to become annoying, everyday there is at least a few new threads from people who say they don't like this, that this is going downhill Blah, Blah, Blah.

Enough is enough, The devs are doing what they are instructed to do, Cryptic is taking its direction from PWE who are now the people in charge. If you don't like go elsewhere.

The game is F2P - that means they need to generate revenue by whatever means possible, if that is changing the lockboxes to Doff packs then that's fine with most of us as we use doffs in game, we buy and trade doffs and if you can get an added bonus on a Ship or console you won't here many complaints as you are still getting what you paid for.

to recap, stop with all the Anti Dev, Anti Cryptic, Anti PWE talk, if you don't like it go elsewhere

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

Nerd-ragers gotta nerd-rage.

twg042370

utio wrote: »

This game isn't the only accessible form. You can see the tv shows every day on tv, you can buy the books in a store, watch the films/shows on DVD or blue ray, play other star trek games. Oh, and isn't there a new star trek film being made as we speak? Please don't say it doesn't count because of whatshisface who's directing, it's a new star trek film!

Every perceived mistake being made in this game by cryptic or pwe may well be being logged by some of the players, but you need to realise star trek, the trek you cherish, not the new style, is a niche market now. It's not as mainstream as it once was. That's why they don't make the shows, the old style films, etc. The old trek has had its day. You may see it as a cultural hearthstone, and that's cool, but you aren't in the majority.

People need to be realistic. Old trek is not going to bring in the numbers anymore, and you are lucky a star trek mmo even exists.

Quoted for truth.

oridjerraa

utio wrote: »

This game isn't the only accessible form. You can see the tv shows every day on tv, you can buy the books in a store, watch the films/shows on DVD or blue ray, play other star trek games. Oh, and isn't there a new star trek film being made as we speak? Please don't say it doesn't count because of whatshisface who's directing, it's a new star trek film!

Every perceived mistake being made in this game by cryptic or pwe may well be being logged by some of the players, but you need to realise star trek, the trek you cherish, not the new style, is a niche market now. It's not as mainstream as it once was. That's why they don't make the shows, the old style films, etc. The old trek has had its day. You may see it as a cultural hearthstone, and that's cool, but you aren't in the majority.

People need to be realistic. Old trek is not going to bring in the numbers anymore, and you are lucky a star trek mmo even exists.

But what was old(TOS)is new again. Trek has lived for over 40 years and you think that somehow you can assume what the majority is? I heard Trek had had its day before and that was just a few years after it had been canceled. Trek will always have a special appeal to anyone who looks at the stars and wonders what is out there. By that reckoning there were Trekkies making cave paintings and learning how to make fire. You can't niche the unresistable.

delsaberedux

Before PWE took over, STO was ostensibly in cryo stasis because Atari had Cryptic running two MMOs (and developing Neverwinter) with a skeleton crew of about 20 people. All because the dinosaurs at Atari don't understand the concept of post-release support and content development.

So no, we're not going downhill. Just about anything barring outright cancellation should be considered uphill compared to that situation.