bm class made weaker?

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  • brent40
    brent40 Posts: 49
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Said PServer has godstones (20vit) but we limited ourselves to what was possible here. We use that server occasionally to explore what we wish to do here or to have some equal levelled fun for a while. (She has a +10/11 4APS SageWep Demon Sin with a little under 10k HP. I have a +3-6 Sage sin with barely 5k HP b:cry I still win occasionally tho. Landing that 12k PowerDash - Wolf - HeadHunt(crit) combo really breaks some bones ya know b:cool).

    On that server archers dominate like hell.

    Most p-server BMs have to learn CC, or they aint sheit there. Since you used the terms "godstones" i'll assume vendetta, and the ONLY way BMs kill there, are the very skilled tripple glitching warriros.
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    @Joshcja - how are those the same thing? Quilue gave you two different answers (4 and 5/4). You gots to choose!
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  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    endlesstorture wrote: »
    WHO CARES ABOUT BM.. YOUR STILL THE 2nd BEST DD in the GAME. STOP COMPLAINING. YOUR THE SAME CLASS U WERE BEFORE.

    Actually for solo DD not counting debuffs bm's are the worst 5 aps class in game w/o CC

    @ adroit, left a 1 out of my formula, amazingly dysgraphics make typos :o

    The full arguement and non screwed up formula is in the original thread. 1 sec while i dig it up.

    edit: base hp(1-(attack level- def level)/2)+((attack level/2)x hp gained from stones) ok heres the correct formula i use as base to compare HP to def level attack > def wow my brain failed pretty hard with the one i threw up earlier sorry about that.

    In response to your post later in the thread (i really stopped careing after a while lol) this is based on absolute, i showed how to convert to relative like 3 posts before that one? Finnaly yes the 1% factor of error in the conversion is due to my lazy man rounding, force of habit.

    Thread is on like the second page of archer subforum? Ah there we go found it http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1074231
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  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    endlesstorture wrote: »
    WHO CARES ABOUT BM.. YOUR STILL THE 2nd BEST DD in the GAME. STOP COMPLAINING. YOUR THE SAME CLASS U WERE BEFORE.

    You're right! this whole argument is about pve DD <3 thanks for bringing us to our senses.

    Barbs get 50% wood damage no sparks needed.

    Archers get 70% fire damage no sparks needed.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Ya I saw that, re-edited not long after I posted:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=13508021&postcount=295

    Anyways, oh yes that thread...I should've just posted a link of that first because it would have been more convenient.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1074231&page=4
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    You guys need to learn to stay on topic lol.

    Basically the cancel glitch makes skills behave radically different than they were designed by the developers.

    What was designed as a 2-spark skill with a 30 second cooldown that gives +50% crit suddenly becomes a 0-spark, instant cast, 0 cooldown skill with +50% crit (sins glitching powerdash).

    How can developers hope to balance skills if they couldn't even get skills to behave as they were programmed? Let's hope this fix of a long-standing bug heralds developer interest in addressing players' balance concerns.
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  • T_i_m - Dreamweaver
    T_i_m - Dreamweaver Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Certain people seem to be missing the point. This last patch is the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. Cheap R8 rolls around, what do bm's get that complements their class? No useful weapon adds, no -int fist, heck no -int gear at all. Okay, fine we still DD well and can match R8 with TT99/Nirvy. Cheap R9 rolls around. We get nice axes. But to use the full effect of R9 you need to wear it all so other classes get the atk/def levels plus the ability to fully shard jades and bm's get... nothing. Once more, no interval to complement our fists. I was going to build a full R9/JoSD bm, mostly str build with a little extra dex for accuracy purposes and give it a go. With cc-GS it might have been very competitive even with the godlike R9 Psy's (sure, hit me with your 55k soulforce a few times, I'll still 1-2 critshot you with my axes!). Using cc GS/DBB/CH (the last in particular for sage bm's who are even more worthless now), Nirvy/TT99 bm's could still compete in a pinch with R9 toons. Now those options are gone and bm's can't compete endgame. They are supposed to be warriors: part tank and part dd. Now they can't do either. An endgame R9 barb will out-dd an endgame R9 BM while still tanking better and that's just pathetic. Heck, a R9 psychic will tank better; so much for "squishy" arcanes!

    Like I said, we put up with poor rank gear, but taking away our way to cope with other toons using those tools when we have to make do with lesser gear? BM's are now a buff/amp class. Might as well give em group heal skills.

    The only folks saying it's not a big deal are people who don't don't have an endgame bm and haven't had to fight multiple r9 toons at once as such. BM's are now the most inferior endgame pvp class.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You guys need to learn to stay on topic lol.

    Basically the cancel glitch makes skills behave radically different than they were designed by the developers.

    What was designed as a 2-spark skill with a 30 second cooldown that gives +50% crit suddenly becomes a 0-spark, instant cast, 0 cooldown skill with +50% crit (sins glitching powerdash).

    How can developers hope to balance skills if they couldn't even get skills to behave as they were programmed? Let's hope this fix of a long-standing bug heralds developer interest in addressing players' balance concerns.

    If you look reeeeeaaaly closely, you can see that theres a thread for sins on the fist page as well. None of them really care.

    You can go post about powerdash there

    Again the demon barb skill sunder still does buff>glitch if the dev's wanted to "fix" only PD they could have done so

    This is a BM QQ thread and ffs we really do have quite a bit to QQ about.
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  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Lets drop chi back to 4 a hit plox <3
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Lets drop chi back to 4 a hit plox <3

    Your an idiot

    chi was changed to 5 per hit from a pattern of 4 4 4 8, chi gain on bm's has always been 5 average.
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  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Your an idiot

    chi was changed to 5 per hit from a pattern of 4 4 4 8, chi gain on bm's has always been 5 average.

    Then lets drop it to 3. What do I care? I dont know how BMs work, not like they need chi to use them crit / fire damage buffs or anything.

    Also, proof of that pattern plox. It seems somewhat stupid and its the first I have ever heard of it. If thats true then lul wtf.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Your an idiot

    chi was changed to 5 per hit from a pattern of 4 4 4 8, chi gain on bm's has always been 5 average.

    Before they changed it to 5 per hit you could not perma-spark. So... Nope, you're wrong.
  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Then lets drop it to 3. What do I care? I dont know how BMs work, not like they need chi to use them crit / fire damage buffs or anything.

    Also, proof of that pattern plox. It seems somewhat stupid and its the first I have ever heard of it. If thats true then lul wtf.
    Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Before they changed it to 5 per hit you could not perma-spark. So... Nope, you're wrong.

    I can vouch for the 4,4,4,8 pattern. The 8 came on the BMs kick animation and I think took slightly longer (talking fractions of a second).

    And 4 sparks has always been perma sparked.
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  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I can vouch for the 4,4,4,8 pattern. The 8 came on the BMs kick animation and I think took slightly longer (talking fractions of a second).

    And 4 sparks has always been perma sparked.

    Its a pointless debate, being it was changed like 14 months ago, but the change to 5 per hit apears to still be advantagous. If the 8 chi was linked to the kick animation, any time you had to restart attacking (Boss moving slightly or similar) you would reset your chain, meaning the slightest lag / aggro resets would lose you permaspark with ease.

    Still looking for more confirmation on that however. One person is not enough to prove an obscure pattern like that.
  • Aubree - Dreamweaver
    Aubree - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,868 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I can vouch for the 4,4,4,8 pattern. The 8 came on the BMs kick animation and I think took slightly longer (talking fractions of a second).

    And 4 sparks has always been perma sparked.

    Still wrong. I know you are wrong too. You must have hit 4aps after the change. Your vouching means nothing without proof. Why would they even change form 4 to 5 chi per hit if it was the same thing? BM wouldnt have cared. Bu every BM I knew that was hitting 4 or 5 aps was happy as a pig in sh!!t. It was only 4 chi per hit. And For your amusement Archers had 5 chi per hit I believe. And every BM was jealous.
  • Lyritha - Heavens Tear
    Lyritha - Heavens Tear Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I used the glitch on my veno but I'm not going to sit here and QQ about how I cannot use it anymore. I don't think it nerfs anything at all as this is the way it was intended anyway.
  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    This was a exploit and I'm glad that they fixed it, no amount of QQ will undone a exploit fix. Live with it or play another game. I hope that more fixes are coming, this game seriously needs more fixes.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Ceiba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This was a exploit and I'm glad that they fixed it, no amount of QQ will undone a exploit fix. Live with it or play another game. I hope that more fixes are coming, this game seriously needs more fixes.

    You are quite an example of what a crappy community PWI has become. You do realize people have invested years into their character, and something even as simple as a fix can totally alter the way they now are able to play their class. And this is the sheit attitude you give them? Perhaps instead of blasting them, just let them vent their anger. Because quite frankly they have every damn reason in the world to be angry at a company that totally screwed them over.


    Wake up tomorrow and find out your nix does shiet for damage, and has no bleed. Garuntee you the forums would be flooded with **** rage.
    re
  • Escorian - Dreamweaver
    Escorian - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,802 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    sigh are you freaking kidding me? i havent been on but to buy something rq and to dye a chronobike. are you guys seriously crying about a bug getting fixed? you complaining about an exploit getting fixed good i never glitched but i could why? because it was a glitch you dont need to glitch to dd. find other ways use elemental apoc for all i care. crying about an exploit that you liked isnt gonna come back.
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  • Infernia - Harshlands
    Infernia - Harshlands Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    You are quite an example of what a crappy community PWI has become. You do realize people have invested years into their character, and something even as simple as a fix can totally alter the way they now are able to play their class. And this is the sheit attitude you give them? Perhaps instead of blasting them, just let them vent their anger. Because quite frankly they have every damn reason in the world to be angry at a company that totally screwed them over.


    Wake up tomorrow and find out your nix does shiet for damage, and has no bleed. Garuntee you the forums would be flooded with **** rage.

    Nuh uh uhhh!

    We get jumped on if we raise comment about APS. Finally BMs lose something and we arnt allowed to say that THEY should just deal? Yeah, go BMs, I feel sorry for your moneymaking ***, you have lost a small amount of effectiveness, not like you can still farm Nirvana / TT with great ease is it?
  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I dont mind if nix bleed is fixed, or pulling. In my book that was never intended and need to be fixed, clearly this game needs more fixes and that is a good start, PW will never undone something like this. Feel free to QQ all you want though.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Infernia - Harshlands wrote: »
    Nuh uh uhhh!

    We get jumped on if we raise comment about APS. Finally BMs lose something and we arnt allowed to say that THEY should just deal? Yeah, go BMs, I feel sorry for your moneymaking ***, you have lost a small amount of effectiveness, not like you can still farm Nirvana / TT with great ease is it?

    Yea, not everyone cares for the PvE asspect of the game. Most of the people that have complaints are only concerned about the PvP part.


    PvE = brainless auto attack

    PvP = actual skill

    get it?
    re
  • Krarenka - Raging Tide
    Krarenka - Raging Tide Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    LOL "yay sins got nerfed"
    > "Awww, BMs too *sadface* "
  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    QQ

    This is a bug exploit fix, it will never be undone by PW regardless of how pro/useful/fair/unfair you think it was. I hope that more of these are coming soon because this game needs more bug fixes.
  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    When you fix somthing people have come reliant on, because you was neglagent, its always best to compensate somthing in return.

    If you don't see that part of it, then you are just trolling the forums, jumping on the neener neener bandwagon, about a topic you truelly have no clue about.
    re
  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    When you fix somthing people have come reliant on, because you was neglagent, its always best to compensate somthing in return.

    You seriously think they are going to "compensate" you for fixing a bug that you were exploiting?. b:laugh

    Nice midnight joke anyway going to sleep b:bye
  • XMasqueradex - Lost City
    XMasqueradex - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    When you fix somthing people have come reliant on, because you was neglagent, its always best to compensate somthing in return.

    If you don't see that part of it, then you are just trolling the forums, jumping on the neener neener bandwagon, about a topic you truelly have no clue about.

    so what exactly is a "compensation" which will make every one happy and stop all the QQ
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  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Wish there was a lvl 100+ forums b:surrender
    re
  • XMasqueradex - Lost City
    XMasqueradex - Lost City Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur wrote: »
    Wish there was a lvl 100+ forums b:surrender

    Like 100+ means anything with power leveling these days
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  • ReMakaBo - Archosaur
    ReMakaBo - Archosaur Posts: 845 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    XMasqueradex - Lost City wrote: »
    so what exactly is a "compensation" which will make every one happy and stop all the QQ

    Reason for glitching CC was horid animation times, and somewhat long CDs....so fixing one of the variables could compensate.

    DBB over all is a pointless skill, for the cost of 2 sparks. In PvP BMs used it for the fire damage add. Lowering the cost of spark would be a decent compensations.

    Glacial spike was for the very short duration of crit strikes, but the cast animation of this skill makes that addon pointless because the addon is almost poofing before you even start to attack again after the galcial is done.... so a fix in that direction would be a nice compensation...


    Just a few ideas I could think of... Over all the BM because of long cast animations, lose more of their addons then they benefit. So a reformat of that would be a step in the right direction. People for years never really complained about it, well namely because they knew how to compensate the lack of themselves.
    re

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