Force Stealth Nerf

Bankor - Lost City

Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »

+1 *sigh* I wish more people had this same logic in their headsb:thanks.

I basically said the same thing but Asterelle over here says Im wrong because I said it on a level 1.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

First you argue without supporting it that all classes are balanced (apparently devs accomplished this while lacking the skills to fix basic bugs like rubber banding and magic shell). Then you are argue by extension that the tideborns are balanced because of a hypothetical situation in which they were released with the original classes. Signed some anonymous coward.

The rest of everyone is talking about something that occurred in actual reality in which the tideborn were haphazardly added without giving other classes skills with which to defend against them. I guess you posted on this alt because you realized how silly an argument is when it is based on events that didn't occur.

If you still need to convince yourself the tideborn weren't in the game originally press "M" and look for a section that looks like it was randomly added.

There is nothing wrong with them, they were built to be very very good at taking a single target out cleanly and effectively and be able to escape before other people can react, that is the point of the class. Just like for wizards they have the ability to take out many many many people all at once, and archers can hit you from very far away to take you out. All I see from people like you is that you just don't like them because they burst your little advantage bubble, and that is what pisses people off more then anything.

Signed,
--An Anonymous Poster

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's true that, at high lvls, assassins are hardly defeated by anyone in PK/1 vs 1 battle. But don't the class name "assassin" tells you anything?. Assassins are suposd to be able to kill others in a more effective way than other classes, like barbs are suposed to tank better than anyone, wizzards able to 1 hit, etc... That's the class identity, it just wouldn't be logic that an assassin has the same possibilities to kill his target as any other non-assassin class do, so stop complaining there.

No one asks developers to nerf barbarian's HP so that they has the same possibility to tank as other classes, for example. That doesn't mean that assassins are the best class in game, we're good at 1 vs 1 combat only, but it becomes a lot hard when we're in a territory war, we die easily there where probably barbs, archers and any other class would survive better and kill more ppl in less time, and in dungeons too, we're not tankers, that's clear, we couldn't tank the strongest bosses in game, only barbs would be able to do so, but I don't see any assassin asking devs for more HP or merf HP for barbs, it's just barb's mastery!.

I don't know if you ppl get me right, the fact that assassins can kill others easily (no matter what skills it takes) is what makes us assassins, otherwise we would be just fists BMs, so no need of a different name nor class. So stop complaining about assassin's skills, we're assassins for a reason, just like other classes are barbs,archers, BMs, venos, etc. for a reason too.

This thread isn't even talking about whether or not sins can/should be able to kill easily in 1v1. It's discussing force stealth. People wanting this 1 particular skill nerfed are not saying take away every skill/etc assassins have. As a wizard, i'm used to assassins killing me. But i see no reason that on the rare circumstance they can't kill me before i react/i get a chance to actually fight back, they should be able to click force stealth and go "lol oops i messed up/am not strong enough to kill you/didn't get occult ice's stun/etc, gonna go now" and not have any risk of being killed. No other class gets a skill that's a free pass on the consequences of attacking someone. Assassins don't need one either. If you can't survive against someone with tidal protection + deaden nerves + genie + apoth + charm + stuns + sleep + seal + sparks + immobilize, you deserve to die for attacking them, not to get away with picking a fight you can't win.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Ninjaaaa - Lost City wrote: »

Why dont you make private server and do it then .?
(disagree your idea) becuz i dont want anything 2 be fixed or change becuz nothign is WRONG its just the Players Hate on Assassinz when they steath and they cant traget them
i actually Want something Better Not Nerf!!! i wana be More OP More Damage More servive stuff ok nobody want 2 be nerfed everybody want more power so dont be so selfish what you want power 4 your own class i also want power 4 my own class
Problem will be solved when this Thread is Closed !

Im undecided as to whether you are a troll or an idiot. Im going with the latter for now.

Why has this turned into a discussion over OP sins and ****? I dont care that you can one/2/3 shot mage types, i dont care that you can stealth, all I care about is that you can give up on a fight and then come right back out, within seconds, and continue the fight you just lost because you have chi falling out your butt.

The popular chi loss method still lets you dissapear, still lets you do your one-shot gone junk and still lets you cower out of a fight you happen to be losing. It just stops you re-attempting on a now exausted target.

I mean seriously, it takes pretty decent gear to survive long enough to even get to use AD or w/e and then once weve used it, you dissapear till its on CD and come right back out with another stun / sleep / immobilise or whatever and **** us. No chi / less chi means your going to have to go away or wait a little whilebefore attacking again. Big deal, you lose very little and the game gets a lot more fun again in PVP.

Need I point out again that when sins turn up in PVP, damn near everyone just goes away unless they happen to be allied / friends or w/e? Its because they cant do ****, even if they fend the original attack, theyre then fcked as to what to do after that. Its worse if theyre squadded because they cant even bring you out with AoE stuns or whatever.

Seriously, itl never ruin sins, just like the loss of triple spark in stealth didnt. Itl only make them a lot less annoying, boring and above all pointless to pvp against.

You bring up the wizard junk again too. A wizard can be stopped and a Wizard has **** access to chi gain. Their spells take time to cast, most classes have skillbased access to an interrupt/sleep/stun and everyone has access to AD if they get desperate and have any idea about timing. You cant time AD on the second appearence of an assassin that stealthed 3 seconds ago because you already have 3 minutes of cooldown to wait on as well as having no idea when its going to happen.

Chi loss in stealth = fairest, simplest and above all least noticable nerf that sins can currently take.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Shadowfire - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This thread isn't even talking about whether or not sins can/should be able to kill easily in 1v1. It's discussing force stealth. People wanting this 1 particular skill nerfed are not saying take away every skill/etc assassins have. As a wizard, i'm used to assassins killing me. But i see no reason that on the rare circumstance they can't kill me before i react/i get a chance to actually fight back, they should be able to click force stealth and go "lol oops i messed up/am not strong enough to kill you/didn't get occult ice's stun/etc, gonna go now" and not have any risk of being killed. No other class gets a skill that's a free pass on the consequences of attacking someone. Assassins don't need one either. If you can't survive against someone with tidal protection + deaden nerves + genie + apoth + charm + stuns + sleep + seal + sparks + immobilize, you deserve to die for attacking them, not to get away with picking a fight you can't win.

EXACTLY
will all of the stupid sins that think I'm trying to nerf everything just read ^THIS^

I know you all want to say "ya well next you'll want our damage nerfed and blah blah blah," but the fact of the matter is that all I'm trying to do is get force stealth nerfed. Nothing else. No more. No less.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

/inb4 a nub makes a long list explaining why all classes are OP and what needs to be nerfed because they think they're so smart for pointing out what the rest of us normal humans (and magichamsta) already know

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wizards are OP barbs have too much hp, QQ

called it?

EDIT: btw my lvl 39 psy alt has more pvp kill than you do rofl.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Bankor - Lost City wrote: »

I basically said the same thing but Asterelle over here says Im wrong because I said it on a level 1.



There is nothing wrong with them, they were built to be very very good at taking a single target out cleanly and effectively and be able to escape before other people can react, that is the point of the class. Just like for wizards they have the ability to take out many many many people all at once, and archers can hit you from very far away to take you out. All I see from people like you is that you just don't like them because they burst your little advantage bubble, and that is what pisses people off more then anything.

Signed,
--An Anonymous Coward

Your argument now has shifted to saying that assassins should be overpowered because they are meant to be overpowered. Basically you are saying that game balance is unimportant. This is wrong because giving one class a large advantage makes the other classes inferior.

It really should be obvious to you why game balance is important but it boils down to enjoyment. For PVP, people are fine being beaten by those who are more skilled or by those with better gear, but to be beaten by someone with an unfair advantage is not enjoyable at all.

Imagine if the rules of tennis were changed such that one of the players chosen with the flip of a coin was not allowed to wear shoes.

Posting on alts is cowardly. Level 1's don't have much reason to participate in PVP discussions.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Bankor - Lost City wrote: »

I basically said the same thing but Asterelle over here says Im wrong because I said it on a level 1.



There is nothing wrong with them, they were built to be very very good at taking a single target out cleanly and effectively and be able to escape before other people can react, that is the point of the class. Just like for wizards they have the ability to take out many many many people all at once, and archers can hit you from very far away to take you out. All I see from people like you is that you just don't like them because they burst your little advantage bubble, and that is what pisses people off more then anything.

Signed,
--An Anonymous Poster

Because a nerf in Force Stealth would totally decrease an assassin's ability to take out a single target. I don't think you know what this thread is about.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

she doesnt know what she's talking about, and that's why I dont respond to her unpunctuated rambling
and the reason she doesnt post on her main is that her main is 4X and she's embarrased by it

Bankor - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

she doesnt know what she's talking about, and that's why I dont respond to her unpunctuated rambling
and the reason she doesnt post on her main is that her main is 4X and she's embarrased by it

There are many people that post on alts and you don't always ridicule them...

Sounds to me you just don't want to accept sound logic because you don't like the fact the imbalance if favored towards you anymore. Assassins are not overpowered because of force stealth in anyway, the suggestions that have been given other then allowing area of effect skills to not need a target are just ridiculous. I see no reason why there can't just be a genie detection skill and call it done, to me that would be perfectly fair to anyone...

And on a side note: If you have ever played Lost City you have probably seen me in West Archosaur doing what I do best, sitting in a player shop making money. A level 80 also talking about PvP like he matters is also quite amusing and I'd also like you to expand how I am not properly punctuated.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Bankor - Lost City wrote: »

There are many people that post on alts and you don't always ridicule them...

Sounds to me you just don't want to accept sound logic because you don't like the fact the imbalance if favored towards you anymore. Assassins are not overpowered because of force stealth in anyway, the suggestions that have been given other then allowing area of effect skills to not need a target are just ridiculous. I see no reason why there can't just be a genie detection skill and call it done, to me that would be perfectly fair to anyone...

And on a side note: If you have ever played Lost City you have probably seen me in West Archosaur doing what I do best, sitting in a player shop making money. A level 80 also talking about PvP like he matters is also quite amusing and I'd also like you to expand how I am not properly punctuated.

Genie detection skill would be of little use. Its have to have a CD of hell or some penalty to stop it from being constantly abusable. Theres a reason detection pots are s hard to get and are apoth pots (2 minute CD). If we could run around being able to see sins all the time it ruins the point of stealth.

Whereas losing chi or not gaining any in Forced Stealth doesnt ruin the stealth aspect in any way, it just ruins the stupid rate at which a sin can give up a fight theyre losing and then **** their now resourceless victim with a lot of chi at hand in seconds.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Genie detection skill would be of little use. Its have to have a CD of hell or some penalty to stop it from being constantly abusable. Theres a reason detection pots are s hard to get and are apoth pots (2 minute CD). If we could run around being able to see sins all the time it ruins the point of stealth.

Whereas losing chi or not gaining any in Forced Stealth doesnt ruin the stealth aspect in any way, it just ruins the stupid rate at which a sin can give up a fight theyre losing and then **** their now resourceless victim with a lot of chi at hand in seconds.

Oh and as for the 80-not-having-a-say-in-pvp comment to the OP:

Assassins can enter PVP at 74 and not be seen by anyone except other assassins and LV 101's. Meaning 8x are at great risk of being ruined.

A long time back people used to be able to PK at any level against people theyr own level and have some fun, now its reserved for high 9x. Cept for sins who as I said can start ruining the fun at 74. Meaing they can go around PKing lowbies as much as they like and noone except a high level can come and stop them. But again, stealth isnt the problem were talking about, tbh I like stealth as it is, just not the chi gain stupidity.

Edit : I swear I clicked edit not quote but w/e...

Khelben - Harshlands

First of all Lanyiara at 74 they are stealthed from upto level 104's

Also Ninjaaaa i do have a suggestion which you will like as it is a buff to sins, Make Sharp Observer give 4 awareness per level instead of 3, this will allow Sins to actually be able to see each other thus making a counter to force stealth.

Another suggestion is make awareness pots give 40 awareness

FanFon - Dreamweaver

LMFAO I can't believe this flame bait QQ thread went on for 30+ pages. As a sin I really don't use shadow escape that often. I will admit I do run from people who would destroy me with it. I usually have a do or die mentality if it is 1v1, but if it's 2+ v me I'd run without hesitation.

Even if you nerfed it a good sin would still get around it with shadow walk once they disappear.

1 costing chi to stay in - waits and cast shadow walk the second I appear
2 No chi bonus - I still have inner harmony
3 raising mp cost - mp charm
4 chi cost to cast - chi pots
5 slow walking effect - I can teleport 30m+ twice and got holy path
6 lower stealth level when moving - thats fine with me high levels already have 30+ stealth from skills.
7 combo of 1, 2, and 4 - combo of 1, 2, and 4 solutions

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything what would help that much with the disappearing act that would totally stop a sin coming back and **** you in the face. Sure it may delay us bit, but the whole point of the class is to take our time while they plan on how to not you once they realize we are here. If I wanted to I could switch from my str genie, vit genie, or dex genie to better prepare for a kill.

Yes. I have done this before and continue to follow unsuspecting people and kill them.

Bankor - Lost City

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Genie detection skill would be of little use. Its have to have a CD of hell or some penalty to stop it from being constantly abusable. Theres a reason detection pots are s hard to get and are apoth pots (2 minute CD). If we could run around being able to see sins all the time it ruins the point of stealth.

Whereas losing chi or not gaining any in Forced Stealth doesnt ruin the stealth aspect in any way, it just ruins the stupid rate at which a sin can give up a fight theyre losing and then **** their now resourceless victim with a lot of chi at hand in seconds.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=10584392&postcount=22

FanFon - Dreamweaver

Khelben - Harshlands wrote: »

First of all Lanyiara at 74 they are stealthed from upto level 104's

Also Ninjaaaa i do have a suggestion which you will like as it is a buff to sins, Make Sharp Observer give 4 awareness per level instead of 3, this will allow Sins to actually be able to see each other thus making a counter to force stealth.

Another suggestion is make awareness pots give 40 awareness

That is the first decent idea about a counter.If my memory serves right there are stealth increasing pots to *raging tides only apoth I think* and awareness pots last what 30 seconds?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Nerf Shadow Escape?

NO

/thread

P.S. If we nerfed everything that everyone was upset about, everyone would be unhappy.

b:bye

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Bankor - Lost City wrote: »

There are many people that post on alts and you don't always ridicule them...

People who post from alts have been and will continue to be ridiculed on this forum. If you cant put your name behind what you say they you probably arent saying something worthwhile.

I am Asterelle and I approve of this message.

Deora - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Nerf Shadow Escape?

NO

/thread

P.S. If we nerfed everything that everyone was upset about, everyone would be unhappy.

b:bye

+infinity and welcome back from ban land b:chuckle

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

P.S. If we nerfed everything that everyone was upset about, everyone would be unhappy.

b:bye

Yes, but if we never nerfed anything that anyone was upset about, I doubt everyone would be happy.

P.S. Welcome back.

P.P.S. I still think the chi drain is the best solution, does not affect the sin's ability to get the hell out of Dodge, only how fast he can come back, which is usually what people hate the most.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes, but if we never nerfed anything that anyone was upset about, I doubt everyone would be happy.

P.S. Welcome back.

P.P.S. I still think the chi drain is the best solution, does not affect the sin's ability to get the hell out of Dodge, only how fast he can come back, which is usually what people hate the most.

Perhaps Shadow Escape should only be timed... limited duration or something... chi drain sounded interesting, but eh... I don't really see it as being much of an issue. Lowbies getting ganked with high level nixes complaining about flesh ream... 5aps, armagedon, mage ulti damage, psychic whatever it is... nerf them all, then people will start whining about cleric sleep locking people..... zomg nerf refines. lol It's never-ending.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Perhaps Shadow Escape should only be timed... limited duration or something... chi drain sounded interesting, but eh... I don't really see it as being much of an issue. Lowbies getting ganked with high level nixes complaining about flesh ream... 5aps, armagedon, mage ulti damage, psychic whatever it is... nerf them all, then people will start whining about cleric sleep locking people..... zomg nerf refines. lol It's never-ending.

True, and that's where the fine line exists. Knowing what to change and how much to change it. Face it, we all know nothing's perfect the first time, and developers can't forsee all the amazing ways players find to abuse certain aspects of any game.

I've approved this thread so far because it has remained (mostly) flame-free and has represented decent arguments on both sides.

Should we go nerfing everything people complain about? By God no. XD

But does that mean we should never nerf anything out of fear of everything being nerf? Of course not. Like someone else pointed out, triple sparking in stealth was removed because it represented an imbalance (poor barbs being murdered by sins).

Btw, the chi idea was as follows:

The skill Shadow Escape, upon activation, would begin draining the assassin's chi by x amount per second, until stealth was exited or all chi was drained. Upon loss of all chi or exiting of stealth, chi drain would cease, but the sin would remain in stealth and then could gain chi as normal. This idea was mainly suggested to counteract the sin forcing the target

Another version of this same idea involved stealth ending upon consumption of all chi, giving Shadow Escape a "time limit" like you mentioned.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Triple spark while stealth was OP. That was just too out of control. However just the stealth feature itself isn't, IMO. I could see it tweaked slightly, but not outright nerfed.

One suggestion I made a long time ago was that whomever was attacked should be able to see the sin for x amount of time after they force stealth. I think that would be appropriate an not be considered a nerf. I mean, if someone is attacking you and you're engaged in actual combat, your awareness should be higher than someone not currently engaged in combat. Let the sin immediately disappear to anyone around them but slowly fade away to the person who was attacked would work for me.

In actuality, I would think that any nerfing of Shadow Escape would make sins even more self-conscious about who they would attack, so that the people complaining now would complain even more after it was nerfed...

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Triple spark while stealth was OP. That was just too out of control. However just the stealth feature itself isn't, IMO. I could see it tweaked slightly, but not outright nerfed.

You can still (somewhat) exploit it. Stealth -> triple spark in air away from your target -> restealth -> stun tele on someone.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

One suggestion I made a long time ago was that whomever was attacked should be able to see the sin for x amount of time after they force stealth. I think that would be appropriate an not be considered a nerf. I mean, if someone is attacking you and you're engaged in actual combat, your awareness should be higher than someone not currently engaged in combat. Let the sin immediately disappear to anyone around them but slowly fade away to the person who was attacked would work for me.

In actuality, I would think that any nerfing of Shadow Escape would make sins even more self-conscious about who they would attack, so that the people complaining now would complain even more after it was nerfed...

I'd say that is one of the best suggestions so far. Most people would be fine with 3-5 seconds of time to attack before the sin goes away completely. Maybe even make the sin un-targetable while force stealthing unless you already have a target on it?

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

You can still (somewhat) exploit it. Stealth -> triple spark in air away from your target -> restealth -> stun tele on someone.

Well, that's not really exploiting it. Anyone can do that, and many have always done this and still do. It's not uncommon for mages or archers, and some barbs and bms even try to triple>drop to target>attack.

I'd say that is one of the best suggestions so far. Most people would be fine with 3-5 seconds of time to attack before the sin goes away completely. Maybe even make the sin un-targetable while force stealthing unless you already have a target on it?

Well, yeah, that's kinda what I mean. If you're fighting the sin, if they force stealth, you should still be able to have target on them for a few more seconds... people who weren't directly attacked by the sin shouldn't get this benefit. I know it sounds great, but it would probably be pretty difficult to code. *shrug*

Tricannon - Dreamweaver

i would say maybe make the detection tweaked a bit....maybe as the sin gets closer u can slowly maybe see the outline or something....u know u char gets the little tingling sensation that something is comming and kinda gets jittery? just a suggestion but w/e XD

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Perhaps Shadow Escape should only be timed... limited duration or something... chi drain sounded interesting, but eh... I don't really see it as being much of an issue. Lowbies getting ganked with high level nixes complaining about flesh ream... 5aps, armagedon, mage ulti damage, psychic whatever it is... nerf them all, then people will start whining about cleric sleep locking people..... zomg nerf refines. lol It's never-ending.

That slope of yours is awefully slippery. However nerfs to other parts of the game do not logically follow as it is possible for shadow escape to be nerfed without anything else being touched.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Well, that's not really exploiting it. Anyone can do that, and many have always done this and still do. It's not uncommon for mages or archers, and some barbs and bms even try to triple>drop to target>attack.

Mages and archers appear on the 'T' list and you can see their green dot on the minimap. If you let one sneak up on you like that it is your fault.

Sins triple spark outside of T range, restealth, and holypath / tele to you while stealthed (I'm not speaking hypothetically). There is no mechanism at all to see this coming so the problem still exists.

The biggest imbalance with force stealth is that its not just used as an escape maneuver but also poises the sin for an attack. After the first attempt the target is forced to use AD to break the stun lock which goes on a 3 min cooldown. After shadow escape the sin can come back and attack again while that skill is in cooldown.

Even if they wait until force stealth is available again, the 90s cooldown of shadow escape is shorter than 2mins for apothecary and 3mins for AD. Perhaps force stealth should come with some consequence like a long duration seal.

Shevanel - Sanctuary

I read the ffirst 8 pages, and the last 12 pages or so, so forgive me if this has been mentioned.

Real AoEs, targetless AoEs, AoEs based on the person.

This may not work so well with Archers Barrage, as it goes down when the target enemy has died, but then again, why should it?

For a Wizzie, Ulties should be able to be cast in the ground, and have the aoe affect targets in the 12m radius. Same with Hailstorm.

Will of the Phoenix should be able to be used at any time, with mobs around or possible stealthed Sins, or not.

Dragons Breath and Emberstorm should be able to be cast ON THE PERSON, not a target.

Archers Wingspan should be used on the person, not a target.

BMs RotP should be able to be used whenever.

These sorts of things would actually make sins Shadow Escape viable in PvE where they can keep/gain the chi, but in PvP, they'd have to use it wisely and skillfully. This means if they pick on the wrong person, the person STILL has a chance, as every class has an AoE that can be cast from their person, and away from them. A new "ground" targetting feature to accompany this would be needed of course.

Apart from this idea, I agree that chi drain should be implemented. But with further concequences (more mp usage per second when full chi-less) for example.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Shevanel - Sanctuary wrote: »

These sorts of things would actually make sins Shadow Escape viable in PvE where they can keep/gain the chi, but in PvP, they'd have to use it wisely and skillfully. This means if they pick on the wrong person, the person STILL has a chance, as every class has an AoE that can be cast from their person, and away from them. A new "ground" targetting feature to accompany this would be needed of course.

Apart from this idea, I agree that chi drain should be implemented. But with further concequences (more mp usage per second when full chi-less) for example.

This would help, but sins still have their teleport skills. If you sit 30 meters from your next target s/he cannot catch you with the non-target AoEs as you aren't in the range. And even if the sins were unable to use teleport skills in stealth, they could just unstealth at range and then teleport to you.

And of course, even if sin would lose all their chi upon stealthing, they could get 2 sparks back instantly anyway. So that wouldn't stop teleporting after unstealthing.

Ninjaaaa - Lost City

when Mod gona close this thread 2 much hate on sins DAAAM 2 Much nerf ideas iam just getting bored each time i click on general discussion i see this thread keep pop up again ok move on ppl find something 2 talk about Nerfing go back talk about packs just let the Sins alone ok 4 the 100 Time NOTHING WILL BE NERFED NOTHING WILL BE FIXED NOTHING WILL CHANG ABOUT SINS OK move on let it go you dont like simple quit and ty the dev only gona do is 2 add a detection genie skill thats all dont hope something will be nerfed trust me that what they gona do add new genies skillz (end of Discussion) hope dont see this thread keep poping up so annoying

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

That slope of yours is awefully slippery. However nerfs to other parts of the game do not logically follow as it is possible for shadow escape to be nerfed without anything else being touched.

Erm... i think you read a little much into that part of my post. I was being generalistic and slightly sarcastic. Rhetorically, if PWE is going to cave to one group of complaints what makes it any different following suit to any other... but that was a silly digression.

I don't particularly see Shadow Escape as being all that OP. I am a BM and sins are pretty week to heavies. You being an archer, you're highly vulnerable to them, so I can understand your desires but I don't share them. Shadow Escape is no more serious of an issue as broken Flesh Ream, DPS disparity between classes or *insert other common complaint*. Nerf one, you might as well start going down the list was my sentiment.

Mages and archers appear on the 'T' list and you can see their green dot on the minimap. If you let one sneak up on you like that it is your fault.

Sins triple spark outside of T range, restealth, and holypath / tele to you while stealthed (I'm not speaking hypothetically). There is no mechanism at all to see this coming so the problem still exists.

Boy Scout Motto: Be Prepared.

There are a number of ways you can easily twart a sin's attack. 6 sec immune, AD, expel, etc... I'm sure someone clever can think of a few other ways. It's the one class in PWI that keeps you on your toes. Reaction time is paramount.

The biggest imbalance with force stealth is that its not just used as an escape maneuver but also poises the sin for an attack. After the first attempt the target is forced to use AD to break the stun lock which goes on a 3 min cooldown. After shadow escape the sin can come back and attack again while that skill is in cooldown.

With the exception to general RPKing, I guess that's more of a PvE server problem than a PvP server issue from what I've gathered reading as well as scoping out the PvP.

A lot of PvP on our server isn't 1v1.... it's usually squad based... if a sin comes out, he may get a kill, but after that everyone is prepared. A sin PKing often brings a few out... they generally get a couple of kills then get owned before hiding in SZ.

Even if they wait until force stealth is available again, the 90s cooldown of shadow escape is shorter than 2mins for apothecary and 3mins for AD. Perhaps force stealth should come with some consequence like a long duration seal.

Umm... a long duration seal? Then they would be even more worthless during TW. Pot or genie skill cooldowns will never match other skills players have and I don't see why they should.