Force Stealth Nerf

Euphy - Dreamweaver

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Yea, Yet you can still target and seal said Holy Pathing class.

And you cant seal something that has you Stunned, Slept, Silenced or has a Seal, Stun, Sleep or Immobilise-proof skill active. Which a sin can easily have.

This is a discussion about Shadow Escape; not the entire PvP-skill arsenal of assassins. You're a cleric - I feel your pain. Assassins tear me apart - unless I kill them first. Trying to control their movements is only a last ditch attempt if the surprise nuke fails. Also I really recommend Occult Ice on a Strength genie. It doesn't always work but assassins hate it - and it gives you a chance to blow them away.

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

As for the single spark thing for Lv 40 assassins, this is why simply consumung chi is great. I dont think anyone would be so evil as to make it dispel once you run out of chi.

Oh I didn't realize that it wouldn't dispel. I think that's fine then. If the skill slowly used up any chi but didn't require it... that would be a nice balance for PvP but not ruin it for PvE (where Chi isn't as important).

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

And as for a Wizard / BM / Archer...... You can see them on the map, and if you know theres one abut, you can track them and be ready. Sitting there with your finger on AD is a perfectly awesome tactic, but its ******n annoying to have to do that when a sin can come out and kill the person next to you before youve even targetted them. I fairly often turn around and cast Whirlwind on them, its never a oneshot. So the sin is away and im pretty much gaurenteed to be next one on their kill-list. Ok, thats fine. I sleep them, they stand there in stealth slept more often than I sleep them out of stealth. Unless theres someone I can AoE theyre sorted and my sleep is on CD for the next person. As soon as it wears off, theyre back out at full chi and im dead.

Sorry, but Whirlwind is not really a "nuke". Our only real nuke is Tempest, though Weild Thunder is okay. I can only one-shot average end-game assassins with a 3-sparked Tempest (it hits for 7,000 - 8,000 on Light Armors). I don't think sleep or seal knock them out of stealth. Neither will DoT spells. You have to be channeling an attack spell before they stealth, which hits after they stealth, to knock them out of it.

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

All in all, ive been attacked by sins that have been knocked out of stealth with various things from Tangling mire to Tempest, and its a mixed reslt, I lose and I win equally. If a Sin gets into stealth and I cant AoE something within about 1 second, theyre gone, and ready to try again from the top and im screwed.

Wining and losing equally is a sign of balance isn't it?

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

I repeated myself a lot in this post I know, but its the fact that a sin can pop out with full chi again in seconds that ruins everyones fun.

They certainly keep me on my toes... >.<

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Stealth **** with a sins chi is still, imo, the best route. Either cost per second (Without dispelling upon complete drain) or cost to cast/on cast (Say like Soul Transfusion for a veno, itl swallow a spark if youve go one, if not, it wont do anything).

All this coming from a reasonably equipped 100 Cleric on Harshlands, a PvP server where we know how much Sins ruined the game. Hell Everyone knows Psys are OP but noone cares since theyre super squishy to make up for it.b:chuckle Its sins and specifically re-stealthing and gettign full chi we care about, not the staying invisible part.

Okay so I really like your idea about draining their chi, because I think its fair. If spells like Siren's Kiss would work without targets it would be perfect! Even still I don't think Shadow Escape should be removed, weakened, or have a limited time span. This stems from the fact that assassins need it to reset argo in PvE as they have horrid survivability in anything besides 1v1.

Euphy - Dreamweaver

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Cant sleep a target using Maze steps and if you get the opportunity to attack a sin in PvP, good for you, they evidently didnt deal with their target fast enough before you noticed, yay.

When im playing my sin, I stealth the second I see a spark that is not mine or my opponents, it garenteed to be coming for me. Deaden lets me live the hit and im gone before you have even cast that ulti. Then im coming for you. At full chi. Enjoy.

Oh and your chain takes over 6 seconds to complete, with average -Chan. Yea, on HL, a sin is usually gone within that time, so uh, not gonna happen

Oh sorry, I should mention that with demon spark I have -76% channeling. So Tempest hits them within 2 seconds of me sparking. Whirlwind 1 second later. Its kind of a given that you need to be a channeling build for this to work... b:surrender People don't usually see everything around them. The biggest flaw to the tactic is if other people interfere. As you have no chi and your genie has no energy.

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

Cant sleep a target using Maze steps and if you get the opportunity to attack a sin in PvP, good for you, they evidently didnt deal with their target fast enough before you noticed, yay.

When im playing my sin, I stealth the second I see a spark that is not mine or my opponents, it garenteed to be coming for me. Deaden lets me live the hit and im gone before you have even cast that ulti. Then im coming for you. At full chi. Enjoy.

Oh and your chain takes over 6 seconds to complete, with average -Chan. Yea, on HL, a sin is usually gone within that time, so uh, not gonna happen

and I just said that deaden nerves hardly works as advertised and bugs right out. most of the time it doesn't work and I get the stun anyway then again I've been working on level more than pvp lately


and by the way

a stunned sin is a dead sin.... and in open pvp that is a real proposition

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Euphy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh sorry, I should mention that with demon spark I have -76% channeling. So Tempest hits them within 2 seconds of me sparking. Whirlwind 1 second later. Its kind of a given that you need to be a channeling build for this to work...

-76% channeling? How much did that cost? Cuz I can guarentee -76% channel cost less than however much force stealth cost in spirit/coinsb:surrender

you basically spent $100+ (or however many game hours that would take you) to buy the gear the makes it possible for you to have a CHANCE at killing the assassin.
I know, I know. "Devs make sins OP so people spend more to get gear that can kill sin" yada yada yada yada




yadab:shutup

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver

I don't know if this has been covered, mainly because I, at the moment, am in-game and prefer not to read through 10+ pages filled with discussion, QQing, and flaming about a skill. However, did anyone mention that this had in mind those assassins that DON'T necessarily PvP, but steal aggro while PvEing? I mean, if you steal aggro on a physical attack boss as an assassin, you better hope to high heaven that he misses a LOT, otherwise you're down in 2-3 seconds...UNLESS you can go into stealth REALLY fast and lose aggro. Just a thought...

Edit: Okay, I looked up just to see, and Euphy did mention it at the very bottom of her post. Sorry for being redundant guys!!

Borsuc - Raging Tide

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know if this has been covered, mainly because I, at the moment, am in-game and prefer not to read through 10+ pages filled with discussion, QQing, and flaming about a skill. However, did anyone mention that this had in mind those assassins that DON'T necessarily PvP, but steal aggro while PvEing? I mean, if you steal aggro on a physical attack boss as an assassin, you better hope to high heaven that he misses a LOT, otherwise you're down in 2-3 seconds...UNLESS you can go into stealth REALLY fast and lose aggro. Just a thought...

pfft that's just fb/bh bosses, most bosses are lvl150 [?] and see you anyway.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't know if this has been covered, mainly because I, at the moment, am in-game and prefer not to read through 10+ pages filled with discussion, QQing, and flaming about a skill. However, did anyone mention that this had in mind those assassins that DON'T necessarily PvP, but steal aggro while PvEing? I mean, if you steal aggro on a physical attack boss as an assassin, you better hope to high heaven that he misses a LOT, otherwise you're down in 2-3 seconds...UNLESS you can go into stealth REALLY fast and lose aggro. Just a thought...

Edit: Okay, I looked up just to see, and Euphy did mention it at the very bottom of her post. Sorry for being redundant guys!!

which goes right back to my problem with them in pk.
It's the exact same formula

Sin does something stupid + something attacks sin= sin force stealths to escape a problem no one else can.

I'm sorry, but if you cant aggro control, then you better have the gear/charm to back yourself up. And falling short of that, you simply deserve to die. It's PWI darwinism tbh.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and I just said that deaden nerves hardly works as advertised and bugs right out. most of the time it doesn't work and I get the stun anyway then again I've been working on level more than pvp lately


and by the way

a stunned sin is a dead sin.... and in open pvp that is a real proposition

IIRC, and im not looking to check, you said Maze Steps doesnt work as advertised. Deaden ALWAYS works, and if you find it hasnt, its probably when another sin attacked you id guess.

When a sin attacks from stealth the damage they deal is not displayed for the victim, nor is even the hit animation, if its a one-shot hit, you find your charm was ticked instantly or deaden was wiped out on-the-spot.

As for Maze Steps, it prevents movement debuffs, most people think this includes seals, it doesnt. Throatcut is your best friend against a BM using their anti-stun move, same applies for sins. Only problem ive ever had is hitting the button not cast the skill, and tbh, ive had that happen on every skill on all my characters at some point or other.

As for stunned meaning dead, your wrong, very wrong. Anything any class can use to survive genie wise, a sin can use too, and many a sin will use AD and Ironguards. Also, go play sin on a PvP server, its a whole different world and im going to very biasedly say : We know a lot more about PvP than you do. b:bye

YaoiFanBoi - Raging Tide

I agree that Assassins do seem to be a tad over powered. I personally played as one before and PVP is easy as one I admit. Id let them keep their stealth skill but take away the ability to stealth during battle, tho let it stay in PVE as its usefull if mobs gain the upper hand. I dont think the game devs will change this anytime soon, and if you look at it the attack power of an Assassin is something they gain for having such low health and defense. In some ways I think they need their attack power to survive, or else they would just be to challenging to play; though they seem to take out to many people with ease in PVP. Remember people Sins arent invincible, I doubt they could take on several enemies at once...

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver

Lanyiara - Harshlands wrote: »

IIRC, and im not looking to check, you said
As for stunned meaning dead, your wrong, very wrong. Anything any class can use to survive genie wise, a sin can use too, and many a sin will use AD and Ironguards. Also, go play sin on a PvP server, its a whole different world and im going to very biasedly say : We know a lot more about PvP than you do. b:bye

lol that is biased, just because you are on a pvp server means jack. this is about force stealth, and my previous posts were examples on how to play your toon right.

if we get into apoths it's a whole nother story for a different thread.

"what combination of apoth+genie+class skill is broken and needs nerfed" thread.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

lol that is biased, just because you are on a pvp server means jack. this is about force stealth, and my previous posts were examples on how to play your toon right.

if we get into apoths it's a whole nother story for a different thread.

"what combination of apoth+genie+class skill is broken and needs nerfed" thread.

Yea, Forced stealth is OP in PvP. PvE noone cares, it doesnt work for **** most of the time, all the bosses you fight later on a [?] type and have 150 detection levels.

Playing your char right includes using available apoths and Genie skills and a sin doesnt need any of either to be OP to hell, and every other class needs both for a chance to survive.

The chi reduction in stealth still stands as an awesome plan to reduced the PvP OPness of sins without ruining them in PvE.

Again, PvP server > than PvE in knowledge of whats OP or not b:victory

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver

my last post before passing out

try and jump on your sin and without going into sz and without going into stealth survive? just try and let your light armor work for you (which sucks worse than HA or AA) sins are always squishy without dumping cash into refines.

I know what I would do in that situation, if I couldn't use my stealth the way it was meant to be.

I'd go back to my bm, because that's what the sin would essentially be, a squishy bm, and we don't need any of those. hell we should give bm's daggers to and let them try them out for size.

the costing chi over time idea is a horrible idea, and I hope none of the other cracked out ideas this thread has produced ever hope to meet the light of day, remember if something gets nerfed on the sin, the rest of the world will have to get nerfed, because you are taking the one thing that lets sins survive.

and just because the toons on this account are on a pve server doesn't mean that I don't have toons on a pvp server you narrow minded person you (on a diff account obviously)

oh yeah and, to solve this "forced stealth nerf" nonissue you guys blow waaaay out of proportion, just get the devs to let us use our aoe's without targets. so if a sin gets force stealth, boosh not anymore.


but you guys would still call sins hax so I give up

_Ghoul_ - Lost City

they cant lol nobady can lol charmed or not charmed.
who give u the idea about charm on a barb u knew how expenesive each fraking tick is
so plz dont give me that ****.
anybody with 20k+ hp and tick his charm lose 10k hp each tick so *** of stupid morons

i would we charmed on average but on a barb na i pass it dosent last.

Longknife - Harshlands

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but you guys would still call sins hax so I give up

Sins aren't hax, it's just that there will always be d-bags who play the stealth class, who wait until their target is distracted to attack. The class itself falls very, VERY flat defense-wise (keep in mind I'm a god damn Psy, and I'd actually argue sins are squishier than us. US!!!) and really isn't capable of anything other than 1v1 combat. They are however, god damn annoying, and a great class to harrass the **** out of people and be an anti-social dillhole.

Febuary - Harshlands

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Sins aren't hax, it's just that there will always be d-bags who play the stealth class, who wait until their target is distracted to attack. The class itself falls very, VERY flat defense-wise (keep in mind I'm a god damn Psy, and I'd actually argue sins are squishier than us. US!!!) and really isn't capable of anything other than 1v1 combat. They are however, god damn annoying, and a great class to harrass the **** out of people and be an anti-social dillhole.

Usually when you're wandering around and you see a Tideborn, 9 out of 10 times, it's an Assassin. So many people are rolling the OP that it's driving the rest of us crazy. I keep a list of Psychics over level 90 in Harshlands. There's 16 that I've physically gone out and gearchecked. Only 16.

b:victory Even Psychics are more wanted in TT/BH than Assassins. It should tell you something.

Born_Free - Harshlands

Febuary - Harshlands wrote: »

I keep a list of Psychics over level 90 in Harshlands. There's 16 that I've physically gone out and gearchecked. Only 16.

Why does that not shock me? .-.
But seriously, I think there's more than 16 of us over 90 on HL. ijs.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Stabbistabbi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

my last post before passing out

try and jump on your sin and without going into sz and without going into stealth survive? just try and let your light armor work for you (which sucks worse than HA or AA) sins are always squishy without dumping cash into refines.

I know what I would do in that situation, if I couldn't use my stealth the way it was meant to be.

I'd go back to my bm, because that's what the sin would essentially be, a squishy bm, and we don't need any of those. hell we should give bm's daggers to and let them try them out for size.

the costing chi over time idea is a horrible idea, and I hope none of the other cracked out ideas this thread has produced ever hope to meet the light of day, remember if something gets nerfed on the sin, the rest of the world will have to get nerfed, because you are taking the one thing that lets sins survive.

and just because the toons on this account are on a pve server doesn't mean that I don't have toons on a pvp server you narrow minded person you (on a diff account obviously)

oh yeah and, to solve this "forced stealth nerf" nonissue you guys blow waaaay out of proportion, just get the devs to let us use our aoe's without targets. so if a sin gets force stealth, boosh not anymore.


but you guys would still call sins hax so I give up

Or maybe you need to get some perspective. How much hp can you possibly have? 3k? maybe even 4k? How about your pdef? 3k? even less? I can crit on a normal hit and kill you.

Consider lvl 100 assassins who are not wearing **** gear and have +7 refines, then you tell me how squishy that is. If you don't have means to get decent gear, then go test your squishiness amongst similar **** geared players instead. Until you have been hit by an assassin attacking at 3.33/s unsparked with a +10 wep, you do not get to talk. If anyone survives that, this assassin should not get to ditch the fight and gain a spark. That's just stupid.

Deora - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Or maybe you need to get some perspective. How much hp can you possibly have? 3k? maybe even 4k? How about your pdef? 3k? even less? I can crit on a normal hit and kill you.

Consider lvl 100 assassins who are not wearing **** gear and have +7 refines, then you tell me how squishy that is. If you don't have means to get decent gear, then go test your squishiness amongst similar **** geared players instead. Until you have been hit by an assassin attacking at 3.33/s unsparked with a +10 wep, you do not get to talk. If anyone survives that, this assassin should not get to ditch the fight and gain a spark. That's just stupid.

>Implying anyone with that kind of gear you'll last long against.

Conavar - Heavens Tear

and many a sin will use AD and Ironguards

Should make AD, IG and sutra give -90% att speed b:shutup

Asperitas - Lost City

Deora - Lost City wrote: »

>Implying anyone with that kind of gear you'll last long against.

Anyone? Adroit vs. Calvin? There's some good kiting there. And there's a decently geared and skilled fist BM. So yeah, you can survive against that kind of gear. And it kind of sucks when you DO survive, they just stealth escape and hide from their well-deserved asswhooping. And gain a spark while they're at it.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

The game balanced get alot more messed up at 100+.

With a 9x assassin vs a 9x archer, the assassin will pretty much always beat the archer.

With a rank 8 +10 armor/+12 dagger assassin vs a rank-8 +10 armor/+12 bow archer, the assassin will pretty much always anally violate the archer. The best strategy the archer can do in that matchup is to reroll a sin.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

With a 9x assassin vs a 9x archer, the assassin will pretty much always beat the archer

It's even more hilarious when you realize that the assassin will most likely be using Hook and Thorn, which is TT80, whereas the Archer will be using Blinding Radiance, Vast Land, Broad Land or Heaven Shatterer.

Lanyiara - Harshlands

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's even more hilarious when you realize that the assassin will most likely be using Hook and Thorn, which is TT80, whereas the Archer will be using Blinding Radiance, Vast Land, Broad Land or Heaven Shatterer.

God dont remind us how dumb most assassins are. TT99 green daggers are approximately 22% more DPS even without interval, yet no sin realises this.

Still loving the sin dude who is posting off a PvE server and claiming to have an opinion on how OP Sins are in PVP b:bye Post on your PvP Sin / other b:thanks

I have tried not using stealth to escape and its truly hard, il give you that. But then again, when I stealth from a losing fight, im outta there, I wont pop out to try again, least not for a good while.

And again, losing chi doesnt affect the stealth. You can still **** off mid fight when you know your going to lose, you just wont be able to pop out in 2 seconds time back at full chi ready to **** your now AD - Ironguard - Psychic willless target.

Stop QQing that you might lose something when everyone thinks it is fair. Noon else would be nerfed if this happened, the class balence was perfect until TB came around, now its very much screwed into Sins on top and noone else having any fun. PSychics have slotted straight into the "Be wary, but they arnt OP to all holy hell" definition.

Seriously, noone PvPs if theres any OP sins around, after about 5 deaths everyone just goes away because they cant have any fun and dont stad a chance. And yes im particularly meaning OP here cos theres quite a few on HL, and 90% of them are ***.wipes and dont even have the brains to think "Oh, lets play with weaker daggers for a bit, have some fun and some challenge"

My sin runs ouround with 80 mold daggers, and I can still kill people with TT99 gears on, cos all I need to do is get that spark off. and when it fails, I can almost always spark again if I must, because I gain a whole damn spark stealthing.

Psychics, theyre actually perfect, I mean powerful and squishy. Yay for a well thought out class.

Sins.... I love mine but I will say again and again, gaining chi in stealth is just frigging mean.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Lol I still find it funny how sins are trying to convince the rest of us that we're all wrong and the sin is a perfectly balanced class b:laugh

EDIT: also want to point out- the poll option for "yes, sins are too easy to play" has NEVER dropped below 66%.
That's 2/3 of all the players who voted.
In most government systems, 2/3 is the magic number to make a big change because it means an overwhelming majority feels that way.

The_owner - Lost City

^ At least someone has gone to school b:thanks

And I do agree. Almost every class i've seen has been dominated by the assasin class, including the barbarians.

How is it possible a level 100 assasin can take down a level 100 barbarian in just 7 seconds?

At least this thread has a main point. As opposed to the players who have created an assasin class and being on alternate characters just to post and defend the assasin class. You'll hear most of them go

"The Devs gave this to use deal with it or Uninstall!!!"

Funny how most of the people defending the Assasin Class 'Are' Assasins themselves.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

I are mart?b:shocked

but ya like i said in an earleir post, in retrospect i wish i had allowed people to see who voted for what, just so we could see how many assassins/alts voted for the second option as opposed to the 3rd one b:chuckle

funny thing is, I combine the last 2's percentages because they both mean no.

tbh i think anyone that clicked yes to the second option either havnt fought an assassin, or misunderstood and thought it meant that they don't get stealth ganked

Nossenkrad - Lost City

...funny how sins defend themselves? who elese whant you to defend us dudes? barbs?, archers? wizzards? lolz. And yah, this is what we have in this game, don't like? prefer any other game's character skills? well go play it.

Deora - Lost City

The_owner - Lost City wrote: »

How is it possible a level 100 assasin can take down a level 100 barbarian in just 7 seconds?

How is it possible a level 100 Wizard can take down 9001 level 100 barbarians in just one skill?

DrunkWizard - Lost City

unless barb is high str build with fail hp or if the wizard has **** refines and **** weapon then is impossible unless it gets amped by a veno or by a bm o.o

Allynna_ - Dreamweaver

Aren't wizards suppose to be the hardest hitting class per hit? Also, what kind of barbs would gaggle that tight and wait 5-8 seconds while they get De-buffed/Amped and the Wizard sparks and channels an ulti? (pretty sure an average 100 wiz would have trouble hitting over 26K with a Sage Spark level 11 ulti crit before defenses . . .)

ijs, if a Mage can't one shot something, nothing should be able to . . .