double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills

Asperitas - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

@Telarith

then Josh is one of those exceptions that proves the rule


how much hP/def have typical late-70s or early-80 bm?


1-3 drum have 3229 - 9685 p.attack, and 4842 - 14527 m.attack

it means that 70-80lvl HA tank should have 8k HP (or even 10k if 70lvl) to not get oneshot by worst nukes

and you need to add to this 900-2.7k dmg per every melee hit, so your tank would be able to survive nuke+ melee combo


so yeah, without perm BB and another cler healing, and vit build- this boss is quite impossible to tank for normal bm at level

False. The only problematic part of drum if a BM is tanking is the first half where he does magic attacks and doesn't AOE.

For this, I cancelled his magic attacks. For the ones I couldn't, I sparked through them.

After he hits his AOE point, have the cleric put up BB and you're done. This is also how I do wurlord lol.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

yea , i keep forgeting about genies

Asperitas - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yea , i keep forgeting about genies

Not genies, just shadowless kick, smack and spark. If my brother was there, he'd cancel with force of will as well. But really, you don't need a barb.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I know BMs who can also tank pole at low 80s. It's not easy though. I just wonder if gamma is doable with 2x bm and no barb. If it is, then barbs aren't that needed even at lower levels.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

Not genies, just shadowless kick, smack and spark. If my brother was there, he'd cancel with force of will as well. But really, you don't need a barb.

didnt meet bms like you too often

Asperitas - Lost City

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

didnt meet bms like you too often

Well yeah, it's just often out of desperation I tank things. Rather than waiting and QQing about not getting my gear farmed, I prefer to go and figure out the things I can do alone.

A lot of things if done correctly don't actually need a barbarian to tank. I mean it's extra security when they have like 15k hp and I have 6k, but if you're figure out the tricks, there's a lot you can do.

That's not saying though that I think barbarians should become obsolete. Though honestly, I don't see barbarians remaining the primary tanks even if you double their aggro. If the barbarian restats claws, it goes by that much faster. I mean sure, they can hold aggro, but endgame PVE is often about speed, and aggro skills don't give you that.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

Well yeah, it's just often out of desperation I tank things. Rather than waiting and QQing about not getting my gear farmed, I prefer to go and figure out the things I can do alone.

A lot of things if done correctly don't actually need a barbarian to tank. I mean it's extra security when they have like 15k hp and I have 6k, but if you're figure out the tricks, there's a lot you can do.

That's not saying though that I think barbarians should become obsolete. Though honestly, I don't see barbarians remaining the primary tanks even if you double their aggro. If the barbarian restats claws, it goes by that much faster. I mean sure, they can hold aggro, but endgame PVE is often about speed, and aggro skills don't give you that.

gotta admit ur right here, even if bms like you arent too common


when i think about it again i see how pointless is this topic and our whole arguing here.

trying to fix broken -int PvE with better aggro skills - nobody care about aggro anymore.

can be seen best while bh100s where nobody bother to use any strategy: cleric just BB - best dps tank

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

False. The only problematic part of drum if a BM is tanking is the first half where he does magic attacks and doesn't AOE.

Not really. BB from the start (damage reduction) + second cleric healing the tank... I did 1-3 at low 8x with about 5.5k hp if I remember correctly, but we usually just had a herc to tank it and you'd only need one cleric. I remember the first time I tanked Wurlord 1-3 at low 9x. Sometimes I died, but it was thrilling when I didn't.

Games are about overcoming obstacles under tough situations.

Asperitas - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Not really. BB from the start (damage reduction) + second cleric healing the tank... I did 1-3 at low 8x with about 5.5k hp if I remember correctly, but we usually just had a herc to tank it and you'd only need one cleric. I remember the first time I tanked Wurlord 1-3 at low 9x. Sometimes I died, but it was thrilling when I didn't.

Games are about overcoming obstacles under tough situations.

You're right, BB + ironheart would work well, but I often did this with just me, my brother, my sister and my girlfriend - BM, wizard, cleric and veno (no herc), so I didn't have access to 2 clerics =P.

But I agree, it's largely about overcoming obstacles. I derive a lot of intrinsic motivation from doing something outside the norm, and it feels good to actually feel the exhiliration of having your life on the line.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

gotta admit ur right here, even if bms like you arent too common


when i think about it again i see how pointless is this topic and our whole arguing here.

trying to fix broken -int PvE with better aggro skills - nobody care about aggro anymore.

can be seen best while bh100s where nobody bother to use any strategy: cleric just BB - best dps tank

I'm guessing; from not knowing of Shadowless, thinking the BMs must have high high health, and this right here about broken -int in 8X range, you really don't know alot about BMs and their mechanics. Seems like just more bandwagoning, as it isn't until around 95+ that the broken -int people usually refer to actually kicks in.

As to not seeing BMs like that, of course. Why would they squad with you, when they would have had to fight you to even believe they are able to do what they claim. The BMs who are capable of pulling off good tanking are going to go with people who actually are willing to try, or already know what that BM can do.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm guessing; from not knowing of Shadowless, thinking the BMs must have high high health, and this right here about broken -int in 8X range, you really don't know alot about BMs and their mechanics. Seems like just more bandwagoning, as it isn't until around 95+ that the broken -int people usually refer to actually kicks in.

That's the truth. Before lvl 90, the most -int one can reasonably expect to have is -0.2; -0.1 from Bracer of Blood Moon, -0.5 int from tome and -0.5 from 85 Gold Weapon. However this level of -int isn't really 'broken', and it's quite expensive. 6-10m for the bracers, 150-200m for the tome, and 20-25m for the gold frost fists. I'm pretty sure most other 8x chars don't have even close to that invested in their char, and if they did... archers and mages would be pretty OP for PvP, and archers would still be highly desired for PvE as well.

At 90, -0.5 interval cape becomes available. At 95 -0.1 Lunar fists/claws become available. At 99 the two piece 99 Gold set bonus if -0.5 becomes available and at 100 HH100 fists and Nirvana pants become available.

Many of the people who say it's so broken and it should be fixed should invest that amount of coin into their characters and they would find that they're amazingly overpowering for their level range as well.

You might as well complain about your neighbor being able to go 180mph in their Ferrari when all you can or want to afford is a Geo Metro. "I can't drive as fast as him QQ, his car should be nerfed"...

As to not seeing BMs like that, of course. Why would they squad with you, when they would have had to fight you to even believe they are able to do what they claim. The BMs who are capable of pulling off good tanking are going to go with people who actually are willing to try, or already know what that BM can do.

So true. Most of the best BMs have their regular parties... when we're comfortable with running an instance one way, we're not afraid to try a bunch of different things for the lulz. Sometimes we figure out ways to be more efficient, other times we're just goofing around getting into trouble and it's many times like this where you actually push the limits of your char and end up learning far more than any pick-up rinse and repeat BH nub party ever would.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm guessing; from not knowing of Shadowless, thinking the BMs must have high high health, and this right here about broken -int in 8X range, you really don't know alot about BMs and their mechanics. Seems like just more bandwagoning, as it isn't until around 95+ that the broken -int people usually refer to actually kicks in.

ur making too many assumptions..

with broken -int i was refering to topic and endgame, not to 80s

and imagine that i know about bm cancel skill, and that i squaded with bms like Asperitas with HP much under boss nuke dmg, and we didnt have 2nd cler for bb either.


Topic is about endgame, where even in averange squad barbs have problems with aggro.

and imo real prob now is that too many people have OP gear, and they can suck in game and still dont care since they will just tank everything with gear (thats what is making barbs obsolete imo).

then i pointed that it is because endgame instances are too easy for ppl with gear like nowadays and on low lvls barbs had much more work since people have crappy stuff. (yeah, averange squads couldnt do much without barb often) .

and then few ppl here try to prove me than bms can tank everything too, and enlighten me that f.e. bm can spark tru boss nuke. (wow, def gonna write down that amazing trick).

What im trying to do here for few posts is to bring this discusion to averange skill level. BMs like Asperitas are -especially on lower lvls- pretty much elite players. What they are able to do in game dont apply to most people abilities. Discsusion is way too much elitist .

Ima just glad that Reds didnt join this convo saying that not only barbs are useless, but also bms, wizzes, archers and venos since f.e. 80lvl cleric can tank Polearm in fb69 b:chuckle



btw -if u didnt notice- in last post i agreed with Asperitas (so indirectly with you too) because what u are both saying is basically right and there is no point to argue over it


tl:dr
on late 70s or early 80s only few skilled bms could substitute for barb, so demand for cats was bigger

on 100 - many can. They just need to merchant/farm on 2x or use credit card (access to OP gear and refines is too easy).

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

As to not seeing BMs like that, of course. Why would they squad with you, when they would have had to fight you to even believe they are able to do what they claim. The BMs who are capable of pulling off good tanking are going to go with people who actually are willing to try, or already know what that BM can do.

again

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

then i pointed that it is because endgame instances are too easy for ppl with gear like nowadays and on low lvls barbs had much more work since people have crappy stuff. (yeah, averange squads couldnt do much without barb often) .

Not all ppl have gear like that... fine increase the difficulty. What are the other average casual players gona do? the 100 barbs runing around with 15k hp or str/dex build I see tons of those... It hurts watching them half dead in bhs already...

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Okay, guys, guys.

This thread is increasing the aggression and threat a barb can produce in his skills, with regards to the fact even heavily refined axe barbarians are not going to be keeping their aggro when they try and tank these days.

It's not about discussing how easy or hard an instance is nor discussing how elite or non-elite a BM is before they're able to stack up on the -int gear and reach that broken stage.

And while we're on the topic, I'm just going to throw it out there; I'm an average gear person. I'm not sitting in +10 green TT just waiting to get it to gold, I have no mats for my 99 gear because at this stage I'm pretty adamant there's nothing new waiting for me and - even if there was - I wouldn't be able to go given the fact I'd be such an "average" player. Many people who are hitting 10x also seem to the be the people who have particularly good gear and outshine me any day of the week.

I was told, a few times by friends, that I was a skilled archer and better then many players. Wanna know the sad thing about all this? That's only my friends. The other 99% of the population would rather take the +10 Lunar bow guy because he packs more of a punch and gets it done far faster then I could wish to, regardless of whether I'm actually more skilled of a player when it comes to playing the archer class.

If you make endgame instances harder? There will be no point in average geared players levelling up past ninety because when the instances get harder, people will be asking for the heavily uber geared people even more then they already do.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you make endgame instances harder? There will be no point in average geared players levelling up past ninety because when the instances get harder, people will be asking for the heavily uber geared people even more then they already do.

You sort of have a point... however at 93, unless you're more than a casual cash shopper or a merchanting genius, you shouldn't have any of your 99 gear. You shouldn't have amazing refines... However by your level you should have been able to farm/save enough to get a CV bow and refine it to at least +6. Sorry to fit you into the cookie cutter profile, but you need to do that just to be competitive really.

All of my 9x refines were +2 or +3... I did chip my 90 gold axe mats, however I had already saved up quite a bit of money to pay for charms for the guy that had promised that he would help me farm the mats... so that charm money mostly covered my chip mats... Anyway, I didn't get any of my 99 gear until I was 101. Why? Because you have to work hard and long before you get all the mats you need, unless you're extremely lucky or rich, you get them slowly, mat at a time until you finally get what you need to make it.

After being 100+ for over 6 months, all you really have left to do is improve your gear. So slowly as the months passed, money I saved, farmed and merch'd went into mirages and tishas and for the orb sales so I could have some decently refined gear.

What is there really to do in this game? Kill monsters, get mats, make gear... it doesn't happen overnight. Oh, and if you're on a PvP server, you PvP a lot. Other than that, what's the point of this game? To kill stuff to get better gear.

So with all this better gear, as well as having to compete with all the major cash shoppers, barbs have not been able to keep up the pace to hold aggro against people who have been constantly improving their gear over the months after they hit 100. lvl 11 aggro skills should generate much more threat than they currently do. Honestly a barb with lvl 11 skills should be able to hold aggro in almost any circumstance. As it is, they currently can't. That needs to be fixed.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not all ppl have gear like that... fine increase the difficulty. What are the other average casual players gona do? the 100 barbs runing around with 15k hp or str/dex build I see tons of those... It hurts watching them half dead in bhs already...

lol i know. well thats why i wrote that difficulty increase shudnt be too big - like minimum 14k hp to do some instance

still few bms would be able to do stuff, but thats no prob if it would be little % of bm pop

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Okay, guys, guys.

This thread is increasing the aggression and threat a barb can produce in his skills, with regards to the fact even heavily refined axe barbarians are not going to be keeping their aggro when they try and tank these days.

It's not about discussing how easy or hard an instance is nor discussing how elite or non-elite a BM is before they're able to stack up on the -int gear and reach that broken stage.

improve of aggro skills is needed but im saying that it s not enough

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you make endgame instances harder? There will be no point in average geared players levelling up past ninety because when the instances get harder, people will be asking for the heavily uber geared people even more then they already do.

no, they would pick you.
by makling instance harder im not saying to add another 10m to boss HP, but to make them do mroe dmg and more random stuff.

you see- with my crappy gear and no vit build im pretty much 1, 2 shot in 3-3, so i actually need to do something when boss try to hit me.
OP ppl have much bigger safety margin and can just tank few hits.
if devs would make bosses harder they would just make me more one-shot that i been before, so rly - kinda no difference for me b:chuckle

but that would sure be nice filter for part of OP ppl.

and even now
you have no idea how long and frustrating can be doing silly and easy sleeping bosses with bunch of clueless, slowpokes in squad =.='

so nope- i dont pick those OPs if they suck bad

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

You sort of have a point... however at 93, unless you're more than a casual cash shopper or a merchanting genius, you shouldn't have any of your 99 gear. You shouldn't have amazing refines... However by your level you should have been able to farm/save enough to get a CV bow and refine it to at least +6. Sorry to fit you into the cookie cutter profile, but you need to do that just to be competitive really.

Technically, with the money I've made, I could have bought nearly all necessary mats for every single piece of my 99 gear already. Or gotten the Lunar bow and refined it to +6 and popped a lovely little garnet gem in it. Did I? Nope.

I chose not to, partly because I don't play this game to sit around and compete with people who have better gear. Now, yes, this is a back in the old days kind of thing, but back in the old days it wasn't about "guy has +10 Lunar, he goes and you stay" but was more about... well just generally squadding. People's skill mattered to an extent back then and while people with great gear were looked upon as gods and people aspired to have the same kind of getup, it wasn't a case of "better gear > friends/fun people/skilled people" - which sadly seems to have changed.

This is probably a flaw in myself but I don't play this game because I want to compete with +10 Lunar bow archers just to play with people. I was of the viewpoint this was a game; provided you were squadding with somebody with decent gear who could damn well get the job done and hey, maybe even make the run fun, it counted for a lot more then some **** with a +10 Lunar who was ordering everybody around or simply never said a thing. I chose not to buy my archer her Lunar bow despite how avidly I used to save for it because the goals at level 100?

They aren't goals I want nor care to achieve any more. There's nothing to be done at level 10x besides "better" your gear and become the "best" and I wasn't playing this game to compete with those people. Sadly, it seems a lot of my friends were, and now that many of my friends are 99 or above, I'm not even asked for any more given my comparatively low level and comparatively average gear.

Off the point a little perhaps, but I know of a couple of barbs who feel the same way. Out-geared, out-aggro'd and with friends who barely ask any of them any more because who needs a decently geared barbarian if you can get an uber geared BM or archer?

Bartack - Heavens Tear

I say just fix barbs to be able to use their skills with ANY weapon we can equip, that will give us at least something to play with when the end-game tanking cools down. Hmmmnn, I remember seeing something on this website long ago mentioning barbs being skilled with axes, hammers, swords, poleams, claws etc.....

Telarith - Sanctuary

Thing is, to discuss increasing aggro of flesh ream to keep barbs as primary tank role, you also have to ask why? Two reasons for it; one would the change actually be effective in the first place for the desired effect, and two why does the barb need the aggro?

Early on their aggro covers the role required if they are competent and use their skills correctly. It's when things get in the mid high-range that issues occur. Some DDs can deal enough damage to take aggro easily, but not yet survive. This range differs by class, and build used. But by late high-range, the need for barb to be tank in most cases becomes null, since just about every class can survive tanking. So the reason for having aggro skills on the barb dwindles, except in cases to prevent aggro bounce if crit chance is enough to ping pong aggro around the group. But likely in either case, they can survive it either way.

This mixes with the first reason mentioned in that if the other classes can survive tanking without issue, then why would they even care if the barb can hold aggro? All the traditional barb role has been is to soak damage and the ability to survive it. With end game, that's everyone. So, the only way changing the skill would matter, is in that stretch in 90+ where people are finalizing gear. Other than that, how would it really have any impact? The barb may still be able to keep their lower level role, but, so?

So it's as much finding a way to make a barb as viable a class for participating in a group, not mandatory as many are hoping since many classes aren't either, that newer content will still allow them to form groups to go through. A boss only barbs can tank will cause even more problems than fixing with the fickle crowd of PWI, and there will always be work-arounds anyways. Plus, people are assuming the barbs will all be good players as well, which FCC hyper is slowly but surely killing anyways.

Best thing would be some utility that assists the group other than their buffs, or add some focus on their strong AoE aggro ability and make instances and future content with that in mind. Unfortunately genies really screwed that up by letting others get it, so it isn't seeming likely for a very cut and dry approach to a fix.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

i agree with stuff u wrote in first part. it s true

but i dont like conclusion.


what i really like in this game that its very pro-teamplay: unique roles of calsses (tank, 2nd tank crowd control, lurer & crowd control, DDs, healer), everyone have buffs and debuffs thats are helpful whole team (no buffer class).

And then: doing stuff with different people with different abilites to complement one aother - thats is fun for me.

You play with those ppl and do more and more difficult stuff when you level up.


You would expect that at endgame pwi becomes even more complex, hard and require even more good team play to acompllish things.


but endgame is turded

everythings changes, becomes easier and difference between toons fades:

4 from 8 classes aim to be claw-tank (2 of them resign from their skills).

2 mage classes become totally 'useless' (i know that wizzy wasnt super DPS ever, but he wasnt so bad compared to archer).

ocasionally somebody will still need veno to purge or lure - but better gear tank have less he care about venos.

only clerics still do their 'old work'



so, nope i really dont like idea to make from barb another DD, but with better buffs or aoes so they would be bit more useful..

fuzzy bms..

Asperitas - Lost City

On the contrary, I like the fact that the roles in PW are so versatile. I like the idea of being able to do things other classes can, though perhaps not as well or efficient, still able nonetheless. That was one of the things I admired about this game - the versatility.

People could make heavy armor clerics, light armor BMs, fist barbs, axe veno's, it's all up to the player. I don't like the idea of having predefined roles that doesn't allow you to stray from the mainstream. I like how right now people can think outside the box and enlarge the scope of their class.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

versatility, sure - but to some point:


-barb, bm or veno are good in tanking melee, archer - ranged, wizzy cler, veno - magic
ofc this can be changed sometimes - game allows u to do so, but with some extra effort

-everyone have some skills for crowd control, but bms are best in this

-everyone have buffs and debuffs, but cleric have most

etc etc


it s supposed to be team-play game like -lets say- soccer. U have there ppl on different positions with different tasks, and they can temporary switch their roles to adapt to situation. lol even keeper can score a goal.

but at pwi endgame there are only 2 classes now: claw-DD and cleric - rest isnt really needed.

it would be like reducing that soccer team to keeper and striker :P


pretty much broken imo b:bye

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but at pwi endgame there are only 2 classes now: claw-DD and cleric - rest isnt really needed.

Actually if you have a sin with BP you don't need the cleric <_<
Thats how you do nirvana in 7 minutes.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Pretty much, Rib Strike + BP ends up being like mixing BB with Ironheart spam in many areas. Depends on refine level of the claws, and how much spike damage the magic attack of the boss can do. If no one bothers interrupting casting anyways.

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually if you have a sin with BP you don't need the cleric <_<
Thats how you do nirvana in 7 minutes.

Wow....just wow b:sad

NightRage - Raging Tide

Make a Jolly Jones Blessing that gives us barb buffs so barbs can be 100% obsolete. b:cute

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

friend bm take his low sin alt as BP buffer to fc and then he solo it lol

and keep sin outta range to get more exp b:surrender

Traz - Dreamweaver

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thing is, to discuss increasing aggro of flesh ream to keep barbs as primary tank role, you also have to ask why? Two reasons for it; one would the change actually be effective in the first place for the desired effect, and two why does the barb need the aggro?

Early on their aggro covers the role required if they are competent and use their skills correctly. It's when things get in the mid high-range that issues occur. Some DDs can deal enough damage to take aggro easily, but not yet survive. This range differs by class, and build used. But by late high-range, the need for barb to be tank in most cases becomes null, since just about every class can survive tanking. So the reason for having aggro skills on the barb dwindles, except in cases to prevent aggro bounce if crit chance is enough to ping pong aggro around the group. But likely in either case, they can survive it either way.

This mixes with the first reason mentioned in that if the other classes can survive tanking without issue, then why would they even care if the barb can hold aggro? All the traditional barb role has been is to soak damage and the ability to survive it. With end game, that's everyone. So, the only way changing the skill would matter, is in that stretch in 90+ where people are finalizing gear. Other than that, how would it really have any impact? The barb may still be able to keep their lower level role, but, so?

So it's as much finding a way to make a barb as viable a class for participating in a group, not mandatory as many are hoping since many classes aren't either, that newer content will still allow them to form groups to go through. A boss only barbs can tank will cause even more problems than fixing with the fickle crowd of PWI, and there will always be work-arounds anyways. Plus, people are assuming the barbs will all be good players as well, which FCC hyper is slowly but surely killing anyways.

Best thing would be some utility that assists the group other than their buffs, or add some focus on their strong AoE aggro ability and make instances and future content with that in mind. Unfortunately genies really screwed that up by letting others get it, so it isn't seeming likely for a very cut and dry approach to a fix.

I'll give you an example as to why aggro can still be a key thing for barbs to hold even if they can't keep up the damage etc. I was in a 3-2 squad a few days ago with 2 BMs both had a few pieces of -int gear so they kept aggro but they were no where near able to keep aggro from each other so they kept swapping aggro and dying because the cleric couldn't keep up with the demon sparks and switching of aggro. They must have died about 7 times each in that run because of aggro bouncing around. So if I would get a boost in keeping aggro heals stay on me everyone would be happy in that squad.

As I said multiple times in this thread, not every squad can make up for a barb not tanking or being there, this was one of those squads.

PS cleric didn't have lvl 11 rez either so they lost a good chunk of exp at lvl 100 (not that is drastically matters but still).

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll give you an example as to why aggro can still be a key thing for barbs to hold even if they can't keep up the damage etc. I was in a 3-2 squad a few days ago with 2 BMs both had a few pieces of -int gear so they kept aggro but they were no where near able to keep aggro from each other so they kept swapping aggro and dying because the cleric couldn't keep up with the demon sparks and switching of aggro. They must have died about 7 times each in that run because of aggro bouncing around. So if I would get a boost in keeping aggro heals stay on me everyone would be happy in that squad.

As I said multiple times in this thread, not every squad can make up for a barb not tanking or being there, this was one of those squads.

PS cleric didn't have lvl 11 rez either so they lost a good chunk of exp at lvl 100 (not that is drastically matters but still).

Those 2 BMs must be idiots then. This can be prevented by having a small talk before/during the boss as to who should tank, and the other one maybe let a 10 sec or 1 minute head start on aggro. Which goes back to working as a squad....

A barb getting to control the situation mightbe nice, but its clearly the 2 bms at fault here. And they deserve the exp loss(cuz if you lose nothing, you gain nothing). Maybe, next time, they would be smarter than to think that they can hold aggro. I mean, 7 deaths? >_>'''

ps. I didnt post this b:avoid

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Oo_Rinoa_oO - Harshlands wrote: »

i havent seen any BM who tanks full 3-3 yet though ive seen mass amount of BM who stole aggro and put into graves.

need of barb? i guess its huge.



oh, think of keeping this thread like no barb needed.
next new server will fail in oracles, cuz there exists no barb, then no BH, no FC till 9x, no GV.

get your mind fixed at hospital and respect barbs.

Ajay and I farmed all our 99 gold @ level 99 duoing 3-2 and 3-3.. just cause you havent seen it doesnt mean it wasnt done.

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'll give you an example as to why aggro can still be a key thing for barbs to hold even if they can't keep up the damage etc. I was in a 3-2 squad a few days ago with 2 BMs both had a few pieces of -int gear so they kept aggro but they were no where near able to keep aggro from each other so they kept swapping aggro and dying because the cleric couldn't keep up with the demon sparks and switching of aggro. They must have died about 7 times each in that run because of aggro bouncing around. So if I would get a boost in keeping aggro heals stay on me everyone would be happy in that squad.

As I said multiple times in this thread, not every squad can make up for a barb not tanking or being there, this was one of those squads.

PS cleric didn't have lvl 11 rez either so they lost a good chunk of exp at lvl 100 (not that is drastically matters but still).

+1

It's ashame that to keep aggro people expect you to re-roll and use fists... I may be wrong but I dont think you can use barb skills with fists? So then what I propose is that they change all barbs skills to include fist use, if just increasing hate is "too much to ask for"