double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

the original tank class cant tank anymore with current damage dealers


a small modification to aggression would make all Axe-barbs happy (and clerics) b:cute



this is only a High-lvl issue,
if you just power up the sage and demon versions... ... that would help







i didnt post this in suggestion box for some reason dont move plz^^

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I agree, even after upgrading to the demon version I still can barely hold aggro from most DDs, and there's still no chance of holding aggro from anyone with stacked -interval gears.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Eeeeh... I'm a little on the fence about this.

While it's a barbarian's intended job to hold aggro from the damage dealers, aggro thieves have always been a problem. Before interval gear was so easy to get, it wasn't so noticeable and generally it wasn't such an issue, but this has always been an underlying issue.

The main point is a damage dealer needs to learn how to deal the optimum amount of damage without grabbing aggro. This can take a lot of effort to actually master, particularly when you consider the skill level that varies from barb to barb, and while one barb will be able to let you get away with a lot more, another of the same level may not.

I do have to agree, however, that with the onset of +12, Warsoul, hugely stackable -interval and -chan, and other such things, some minor edits need to be made to the barb's aggro skills.

Veins - Dreamweaver

You'd have to have some serious mental problem to say "no" to this idea.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Veins - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You'd have to have some serious mental problem to say "no" to this idea.

You'd also have to have some serious issues if you don't recognise it's not necessarily the skills themselves that are the only problem, but the fact that newer players have no idea how to control their damage output, especially high level new players who have grown up in the world where +12 Lunar with as much crit/channel as you can get is the norm.

If you really want to cull this problem you need to

1) Increase the threat barb's can dish out onto monsters because, as it stands, they cannot compete with all the high level CS gear any more

2) Recognise that noob DDs are as much as a problem as low-aggro skills are because they don't even try to curb their damage in the first place.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

it was always fun to *steal* before high lvls



but this lvl95+ situation made many barbs just quit
only buff and go is no fun and no challenge where there is no chance

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

no.
if you do this, barbs would have to tank in true form which is away from what it is now
the ideal end game tank have to tank with stacked interval fist or claw and making flesh ream 2 times as effective would be promoting the wrong idea ie you have to stay in true form and tank while dealing less damage(as a sage and beacuse all the time used in spamming fleshream would be better spent in fisting the boss to death)

so a big no from me.

TigerLily - Lost City

I really wish they would increase the aggression on flesh ream b:surrender.

Barbs pretty much have to go Claw/interval build or get +10 Nirvana axes to hold agro now. Its annoying as hell playing my 95+ barb in pve. Even tho i spam Demon flesh ream i still loose agro in TT after like 2 min since he is a tank build/Axe without ridiculous interval.

Your average axe barb is really only good for HP/attack buffs and pvp these days. Really useless for any type of tanking. Just slows party down.

DrDrakkentre - Lost City

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no.
if you do this, barbs would have to tank in true form which is away from what it is now
the ideal end game tank have to tank with stacked interval fist or claw and making flesh ream 2 times as effective would be promoting the wrong idea ie you have to stay in true form and tank while dealing less damage(as a sage and beacuse all the time used in spamming fleshream would be better spent in fisting the boss to death)

so a big no from me.

Say what?
Then why dont bms tank <_<

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I think it is a thing that should be changed, but barbs still wouldn't be the 'best' tanks. There aren't that many barbs and while they have nice buffs, I think having one more DD is better. So yes, I support it but no, it won't make barbs a 'must-have' thing to have.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no.
if you do this, barbs would have to tank in true form which is away from what it is now
the ideal end game tank have to tank with stacked interval fist or claw and making flesh ream 2 times as effective would be promoting the wrong idea ie you have to stay in true form and tank while dealing less damage(as a sage and beacuse all the time used in spamming fleshream would be better spent in fisting the boss to death)

so a big no from me.

Stop trolling.

Ranfa - Dreamweaver

I agree. I can't even auto attack anymore without taking aggro. And I don't even have max aps and +12 weapon with dual Garnet Gems. I'm only 2.86 aps and +5 Lunar claws with a Perfect Garnet. I would suggest to tank myself but there are some bosses a 7k hp (barely over 9k with lvl 10 Inspiration) BM just can't tank. If I could afford more vit stones maybe. I could barely tank Snakefist with BB and Bloodpaint.

I usually end up using axes or pole to avoid stealing aggro, and that's a pretty significant damage gimping.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Ranfa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I usually end up using axes or pole to avoid stealing aggro, and that's a pretty significant damage gimping.

welcome back in the bad-dd-club b:laugh

Michael_Dark - Lost City

While people should be able to steal aggro if they go all out, barb aggro skills haven't kept pace with +10 orb sales and the amount of DD archers and fist/claw users have reached. lvl 11 aggro skills definitely need to be updated so there is some sort of balance. A 10x barb with lvl 11 aggro skills should be able to keep aggro even from +10 archers (but maybe not in red bubble) and +10 fist/claw users (perhaps not while perma-sparked).

Barb is supposed to be tank class, and they should be able to command aggro over most high DD classes as long as they constantly spam their aggro skills, which at the moment, they cannot.

It definitely needs to be scaled appropriately.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

I agree 100%. It might also be a good idea to increase the threat level from Devour. That would help as well.

Either that, or add some scale to show threat level. That would at least show DDs when they need to back off a bit... not that it would help when you get into the +12 Nirvana and high interval gear stuff. They'd hit the top pretty fast. b:chuckle

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Like I already said, I want to see this to happen but I also know it won't. Reason is very simple. Things like this never happen and it won't bring any money. However, I would settle for another solution too: refine-based aggro skills.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

I love how people say now I would much prefer another DD forgetting without barbs alot of you would not be where you are today.

Just increase the bleed on flesh realm and we are able to hold agro again kinda speaks for its self I have noticed many threads like this and wonder to my self why its never addressed.

Allow us to hold agro without DD's being affraid to actualy do some damage the "Learn to output your damage" phrase does not cut it with me whats the point of having a tank if he can not hold agro?

If your spamming your skills then yeah you deserve to take agro but someone who is using just normal attacks should not be able to steal agro from a barb.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

no.
if you do this, barbs would have to tank in true form which is away from what it is now
the ideal end game tank have to tank with stacked interval fist or claw and making flesh ream 2 times as effective would be promoting the wrong idea ie you have to stay in true form and tank while dealing less damage(as a sage and beacuse all the time used in spamming fleshream would be better spent in fisting the boss to death)

so a big no from me.

OWWWWWWW!
b:chuckle

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

While people should be able to steal aggro if they go all out, barb aggro skills haven't kept pace with +10 orb sales and the amount of DD archers and fist/claw users have reached. lvl 11 aggro skills definitely need to be updated so there is some sort of balance. A 10x barb with lvl 11 aggro skills should be able to keep aggro even from +10 archers (but maybe not in red bubble) and +10 fist/claw users (perhaps not while perma-sparked).

Barb is supposed to be tank class, and they should be able to command aggro over most high DD classes as long as they constantly spam their aggro skills, which at the moment, they cannot.

It definitely needs to be scaled appropriately.

Demon barb with +11 fr and +12 nirvana weapon drake flame garnet + zerk. I can barely hold argo against 5+ refine 4 aps fist/claw classes much less 5 aps. +10 bow/crossbow archers I can tank fine in human form.

Pure_Black - Harshlands

At 95 restat your barb to fist barb. in PVE you still have enough HP standing in 2 legs to tank all the bosses.

If you are a cata barb in TW, then the faction's 5 APS bm/archer is more then happy to tank your TT/nirvana runs, juxst because they know it will benefit them. So kick back, be lazy and use auto attack on your axes and go afk.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Like I already said, I want to see this to happen but I also know it won't. Reason is very simple. Things like this never happen and it won't bring any money. However, I would settle for another solution too: refine-based aggro skills.

refine based aggro would work , and its like the scaling that micheal_dark wants. It is a fair scaling because look at how much a normal DD would have to spend to become aggro stealer dd. But then again, you want more cash shop interference in the game? A perfect mmo cash shop should only provides vanity items like fashion in order not to spoil the balance the game has.

MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »

OWWWWWWW!
b:chuckle

shh!b:shocked

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide wrote: »

Just increase the bleed on flesh realm and we are able to hold agro again kinda speaks for its self I have noticed many threads like this and wonder to my self why its never addressed.

Allow us to hold agro without DD's being affraid to actualy do some damage the "Learn to output your damage" phrase does not cut it with me whats the point of having a tank if he can not hold agro?

If your spamming your skills then yeah you deserve to take agro but someone who is using just normal attacks should not be able to steal agro from a barb.

Flesh ream is already imbalanced in pvp, dealing full damage like nix. You want another QQ on bleed?

Also, I am not trolling, I think. If the barb(class) can only be good as a buffer, world boss tanker and catapult puller, there is still going to be people playing this class. They are irreplacable in that aspect and since having multiple alts these days isnt that uncommon, theres no harm in not increasing a barb's aggro.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

Like I already said, I want to see this to happen but I also know it won't. Reason is very simple. Things like this never happen and it won't bring any money. However, I would settle for another solution too: refine-based aggro skills.

things did happen
bugs have beeen fixed in the past
i remember some update notes with treat decrease for assasins


this is even a really simple update

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

Pure_Black - Harshlands wrote: »

At 95 restat your barb to fist barb. in PVE you still have enough HP standing in 2 legs to tank all the bosses.

If you are a cata barb in TW, then the faction's 5 APS bm/archer is more then happy to tank your TT/nirvana runs, juxst because they know it will benefit them. So kick back, be lazy and use auto attack on your axes and go afk.

but who will take useless cata barb to tt/nirvana?

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Flesh ream is already imbalanced in pvp, dealing full damage like nix. You want another QQ on bleed?

I have never used Flash ream in PVP I always figured it would be much quicker to kill people using my human skills but yes if it does full damage and stackable 5 times I see why this would cause an issue but it should not be doing full damage in PVP as many of my other skills do not either. Maybe they could fix that bug then increase it.

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

OMG lol Lylfo

nobody is talking about damage increase
just threat/aggro


thats not the same thing *facepalm*
and has 0 effect on PVP

Veins - Dreamweaver

You don't have to increase the damage it deals, just the amount of aggro it generates. It won't cause ANY problems in PVP.

Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide

Veins - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You don't have to increase the damage it deals, just the amount of aggro it generates. It won't cause ANY problems in PVP.

Never thaught about that my bad b:chuckle

RoidAbuse - Sanctuary

Pure_Black - Harshlands wrote: »

At 95 restat your barb to fist barb. in PVE you still have enough HP standing in 2 legs to tank all the bosses.

If you are a cata barb in TW, then the faction's 5 APS bm/archer is more then happy to tank your TT/nirvana runs, juxst because they know it will benefit them. So kick back, be lazy and use auto attack on your axes and go afk.

That's the whole issue to me. We, as barbs, should not have to use a weapon that we can't use skills with to tank. We should be able to use our designated weapon and still be viable as the tank.

Actually, I don't even care. I hate tanking anyway.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

OMG lol Lylfo

nobody is talking about damage increase
just threat/aggro


thats not the same thing *facepalm*
and has 0 effect on PVP

I was replying to a *specific* point he made about increasing bleed damage so that barbs can hold aggro better -.- b:surrender

and I've pretty much said all I have to say in my first post in this thread. lol
and btw more damage -> more aggro so one way to give more aggro would be to increase the damage.

Pure_Black - Harshlands

wait wait.......

World chat: Looking for barb for FC level 90+
Whisper from random barb : is there a herc veno in squad?
Whisper from me : no
Whisper from barb: then nvm, i don't want to pay for my repairs, unless you pay me 200K for it.
Whisper from me: no

And now you want to increase threat to tank again? the pride of most barbs is hilarious.
i want to be recognized as tank but i don't want to have disadvantages by being the tank. ( doesn't mean all are this way )

don't forget i have a level 90 barb btw, so i know what i'm talking about. it's either the one, or the other. Be the tank and don't QQ about repairs, and restat to live up to real DD tank, or live with it, be a buff monkey and get everything from almost free because you are the cata barb in TW.
Are you stuck in between? sucks to be you lol

I restatted to fists, still have 13K hp in tiger buffed. i run alot of TT where a barb is required. i run around with a poleaxe where i need to tank in tiger, and fists for tanking with two legs. If people out DD me on bosses where they need me, tough luck, suck it up and reduce DD. on the other bosses they just don't out DD me


And if a cata barb doesn't get in faction runs, they will leave for another faction. They are a key char in TW, so not threating them nicely ( like taking them to nirvana/TT ) would mean you would fail in TW. so that is not a viable option.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Pure_Black - Harshlands wrote: »

wait wait.......


And if a cata barb doesn't get in faction runs, they will leave for another faction. They are a key char in TW, so not threating them nicely ( like taking them to nirvana/TT ) would mean you would fail in TW. so that is not a viable option.

You assume too much here. They cna be like you, having a BM alt so the BM alt farms everything for the barb. People can get attached emotionally to a faction too you know.