double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

Solution: Regeneration Aura

If the barbarian knows his DDers then he will be aware that they can and will take aggro. In Frost Covered you should be happy that your DDers can take aggro because it's lovely watching bosses die in under 30 seconds, before their first bishops spawn, before their first slashes are sent off. Another thing in TT runs some bosses have random aggro, should their aggro be taken out of the game too or should the barbarian fight to get it back:
-Belial
-Emperor
-GBA in 3-3


Another solution would change out Warsoul axes with different axes for a barbarian minus the 50 attack levels since they have chance of 5,000 bleed damage

Michael_Dark - Lost City

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

I meant that in my opinion this would make the game even easier... Which I'd think would kind'a suck.

You could have, as you just did, said that more clearly. b:surrender

I don't see how giving lvl 89+ barbs higher threat generation would make the game easier, it would just put barbs back into a primary role instead of just becoming a support class.

No but it makes the main point more visible through a wall of text. Meh I'll just use some colour text b:cute

/facepalm

No. Please don't.

I guess the colourful text & larger font didn't help... BACK TO MY CAPS

x.x

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The game is capped at 5.0 but our skills were not designed to scale to 5.0 for aggro, so yes flawed design of our aggro skills.

Well said.

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

solution: make game less lame

so DD will die short after he steal aggro just like it worked on mid lvls


looking forward to see this implemented lol

bramante

I think someone mentioned an idea along these lines many pages back:

In tandem with barb skill improvements have a stress factor inside instances which is variably dependent upon class when they gain aggro. Barbs have a natural immunity of course. Makes for a less friendly situation when aggro falls upon the other classes so hopefully they learn to control their character better if they more likely to die.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

bramante wrote: »

I think someone mentioned an idea along these lines many pages back:

In tandem with barb skill improvements have a stress factor inside instances which is variably dependent upon class when they gain aggro. Barbs have a natural immunity of course. Makes for a less friendly situation when aggro falls upon the other classes so hopefully they learn to control their character better if they more likely to die.

But... don't bms have skills, as well as sword weaps & so on that increase threat lvl? (Provoke was it?) Doesn't that meant they are kinda supposed to tank as well?

I guess the colourful text & larger font didn't help... BACK TO MY CAPS

x.x

x.x not my fault you can't read huge red text; but notice my capitalized words.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

x.x not my fault you can't read huge red text; but notice my capitalized words.

Large red text and ALL CAPS only asks for you to be scolded. If you wish to act stupid, I will treat you so. b:bye

bramante

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

But... don't bms have skills, as well as sword weaps & so on that increase threat lvl? (Provoke was it?) Doesn't that meant they are kinda supposed to tank as well?

That is why I said 'variably dependent upon class' meaning the amount of stress suffered isn't the same across all classes and between magic/melee mobs.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

solution: make game less lame

so DD will die short after he steal aggro just like it worked on mid lvls


looking forward to see this implemented lol

If you design bosses so that well-geared DD can't tank them then you are also making it so average-geared barbs can't tank. I think we would see even more barbs complaining then when the gear requirements of their class goes up higher than anyone else.

truekossy

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you design bosses so that well-geared DD can't tank them then you are also making it so average-geared barbs can't tank. I think we would see even more barbs complaining then when the gear requirements of their class goes up higher than anyone else.

This. Even in the mid-levels you mention, a well geared DD can, and oftentimes nowadays does, wind up tanking things if one of them is available or no Barb can be found. And depending on just how well geared the DD tanking is, the other DDs in squad, much like how things are now with 5 APS tanks, no longer have to concern themselves with monitoring their damage output.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Large red text and ALL CAPS only asks for you to be scolded. If you wish to act stupid, I will treat you so. b:bye

Then check your eyes, since using huge dif colour letters doesn't seem to help & I have to resort to caps lock.

Besides text editorial options are there for a reason...

Paramedic - Dreamweaver

not talking about super geared toons


but there is something wrong if endgame is tankable to easy
gems, refines and gear that supposed to be rare is averange now.

some time ago ppl sharded with beautifuls, and flawless were 'nice stuff'. now ppl use 11lvl gems

TT gear was stuff u could be proud about - now standard is cube, lunar and other 'event' gear

it affected pvp, but there people can catch up to you and get same gear

TT bosses dont have this posibility


so yea, difficulty in pve should be increased so DDs would be DDs again (with some exceptions). but that never gonna happen so we can still talk in this thread if you want, for our amusement

Bartack - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

not talking about super geared toons


but there is something wrong if endgame is tankable to easy
gems, refines and gear that supposed to be rare is averange now.

some time ago ppl sharded with beautifuls, and flawless were 'nice stuff'. now ppl use 11lvl gems

TT gear was stuff u could be proud about - now standard is cube, lunar and other 'event' gear

it affected pvp, but there people can catch up to you and get same gear

TT bosses dont have this posibility


so yea, difficulty in pve should be increased so DDs would be DDs again (with some exceptions). but that never gonna happen so we can still talk in this thread if you want, for our amusement

Devs did the opposite, in fact. How many people can claim to have completed an 'old' style frost run? Did anyone even complete an entire lunar run before it got 'revamped' too? With the mass amounts of 'event' gear floating around now, they had to make both instances relatively easy to complete, or no one would even bother. The old 'dream on' impossible to get lunar and tt99 gears are now common, and the 'that's so uber' frost equipment is pretty average and not even viable end game stuff anymore. TT90 is base to be considered decent, most legendary is 'cheapskate' equipment, molds are so out of fashion they are given away as charity and 3* gear isn't hardly worth decomposing anymore...ah nostalgia...

Michael_Dark - Lost City

vllkass - Sanctuary wrote: »

then Check Your Eyes, Since Using Huge Dif Colour Letters Doesn't Seem To Help & I Have To Resort To Caps Lock.

Besides Text Editorial Options Are There For A Reason...

no Huge Red Letters Make Your Other Points Meaningless Because All I Can See Is Stupid Huge Red Text That Make Me Want To Scream!

stupid all-caps filter...

Seriously, I can just imagine a job application from you... I would buy a red sharpie just to write DENIED in big red letters and hand it back to you. So when I see that all I can read from you is...

vllkass - Sanctuary wrote:

Hey! Look at me! I'M STUPID!

Traz - Dreamweaver

Pretty simple I can't hold aggro from most interval users, and that's now how it's suppose to work, fix it b:bye

Mournbringer - Sanctuary

Agree with pretty much all that has been said about -int stuff, I can steal agg from pretty much any barb not VERY well geared out....but I dont. OMG!!!b:shocked I just control my damge and slowly increase it till I find the level the barb can hold at. Run in alot of squads and watch the agro ping back and forth, but the longest I get it is for 1 hit usually, unless I am tanking:P

Yes I agree that barbs need a tweek as far as agg goes, but people need to learn to control their DD as well. Since thats not likely to happen my poor 83 barb is probably going to stay that lvl for a loooooong timeb:chuckle

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Mournbringer - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes I agree that barbs need a tweek as far as agg goes, but people need to learn to control their DD as well.

I control my DD as follows... if I'm tanking, I'm permasparked. If I'm not tanking, I dragon for the fist/claw BM who is. Barbs don't tank. They buff and devour. b:chuckle

Dunkya - Heavens Tear

I'd like Barbs to be able to get items for their threat skills, kinda like interval/channel for DD classes except the gear is for holding Aggro.
To me that would be the fun way to make barbs more effective..

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Dunkya - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'd like Barbs to be able to get items for their threat skills, kinda like interval/channel for DD classes except the gear is for holding Aggro.
To me that would be the fun way to make barbs more effective..

There are already such weaps that have an add on for increasing your Threat lvl. Not exactly sure how it works though. I made 100 axes like that... then accidently missed a 0 selling them. b:surrender

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Hi I'm back

@ Aubree, if you lack the skills to have an intelligent conversation, you can always go QQ in the eq faction chat or to Ajay or whatever, and not resorting to personal attacks lol. Oh yea, you can ask Goonz to increase the aggro for you. Since he is like the biggest cash shopper in dreamweaver or whatever.

There are 3 important questions still unanswered for those of you who wants the increasing aggro.

1. Do you want to increase aggro just for the sake of increasing aggro? So what if you can hold aggro better with x dps DDs, the next generation of barbs is going to QQ about how they are losing aggro to the x+1 dps DDs. What do you do then? Make another forum poll and QQ about how lacking it is?

2. If you say give barb infinite aggro. Then there is something wrong with your head. Why have the aggro mechanics and all that if they want to break aggro at end game? Aggro management is part of the game, agree? Giving barbs infinite aggro would be breaking the game, worse than now. Imagine you DD-ing a world boss to 1/2 hp. A barb flesh ream it, gained aggro and take it on a cruise around the world. And imagine a +0 cala axe barb holding aggro against +12 warsoul dagger.

3. Even if you get barbs to be able to tank with good DDs, what will prevent them from thinking " I can do this a barb then, why need a barb now to take a bite out of my profits?" or " barbs are acting so greedy, if i let him tank ,he'll QQ about his repair cost and demands 1st pick, I might as well tank it myself".

Some ideas are being thrown around like bosses untankable by non-tank barbs, or even aggros which scales with refining. Thats obviously better than what Aubree or Micheal can contribute.

As for you people saying that barbs will be useless at endgame, I would not think so. They are still good for faction errands, lowbie squad tanking or even accepting charity from someone like Aubree. So if you are a barb, look for Aubree(Dreamweaver) to help you with whatever you want. She doesnt want you to feel useless anyway.

And if all of this is complete nonsense, or the notion of tank DDs is a little too foreign for you, please kindly remove yourself fro the thread. This thread is for those who know of the problem and can contribute something intelligent to it.

If you cannot answer the 3 questions above, forget about increasing barb's skill's aggro. This topic is brought up because there is a certain problem(barbs being the less popular tanks), and increasing aggro to barbs skills certainly wont address the problem.

About my stand with Jones Blessing, that is clearly off topic, so create a new one or necro the old one if you want my views on them.

Danikovich - Heavens Tear

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hi I'm back

@ Aubree, if you lack the skills to have an intelligent conversation, you can always go QQ in the eq faction chat or to Ajay or whatever, and not resorting to personal attacks lol. Oh yea, you can ask Goonz to increase the aggro for you. Since he is like the biggest cash shopper in dreamweaver or whatever.

There are 3 important questions still unanswered for those of you who wants the increasing aggro.

1. Do you want to increase aggro just for the sake of increasing aggro? So what if you can hold aggro better with x dps DDs, the next generation of barbs is going to QQ about how they are losing aggro to the x+1 dps DDs. What do you do then? Make another forum poll and QQ about how lacking it is?

2. If you say give barb infinite aggro. Then there is something wrong with your head. Why have the aggro mechanics and all that if they want to break aggro at end game? Aggro management is part of the game, agree? Giving barbs infinite aggro would be breaking the game, worse than now. Imagine you DD-ing a world boss to 1/2 hp. A barb flesh ream it, gained aggro and take it on a cruise around the world. And imagine a +0 cala axe barb holding aggro against +12 warsoul dagger.

3. Even if you get barbs to be able to tank with good DDs, what will prevent them from thinking " I can do this a barb then, why need a barb now to take a bite out of my profits?" or " barbs are acting so greedy, if i let him tank ,he'll QQ about his repair cost and demands 1st pick, I might as well tank it myself".

Some ideas are being thrown around like bosses untankable by non-tank barbs, or even aggros which scales with refining. Thats obviously better than what Aubree or Micheal can contribute.

As for you people saying that barbs will be useless at endgame, I would not think so. They are still good for faction errands, lowbie squad tanking or even accepting charity from someone like Aubree. So if you are a barb, look for Aubree(Dreamweaver) to help you with whatever you want. She doesnt want you to feel useless anyway.

And if all of this is complete nonsense, or the notion of tank DDs is a little too foreign for you, please kindly remove yourself fro the thread. This thread is for those who know of the problem and can contribute something intelligent to it.

If you cannot answer the 3 questions above, forget about increasing barb's skill's aggro. This topic is brought up because there is a certain problem(barbs being the less popular tanks), and increasing aggro to barbs skills certainly wont address the problem.

About my stand with Jones Blessing, that is clearly off topic, so create a new one or necro the old one if you want my views on them.

confirmed, she hates Barbs b:shocked

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

As for you people saying that barbs will be useless at endgame, I would not think so. They are still good for faction errands, lowbie squad tanking or even accepting charity from someone like Aubree.

/Facepalmx2

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

VlLKASS - Sanctuary wrote: »

/Facepalmx2

Ditto

Sounds like she dont care about barbs endgame.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As for you people saying that barbs will be useless at endgame, I would not think so. They are still good for faction errands, lowbie squad tanking or even accepting charity

Problem: Lowbie and endgame don't work in the same sentence. Sorry hun but that is plain, pure and very very simple fact.

Faction errands don't necessarily count as endgame either. I can run faction errands on my 77 venomancer and that doesn't mean I've hit endgame (and far from it.) This isn't about endgame faction errands, this is about the endgame issues with threat and aggro.

Accepting charity has nothing to do with level whatsoever and that was a rather stupid thing of you to say, whether it was a not-very-subtle-at-all personal attack on somebody else or not.

The issue is that barbarians do not generate enough threat and aggression at endgame with skills designed to generate threat and aggro. The suggestion of infinite aggro is beyond stupid because that removes the whole necessity for an aggression system where a DD can steal. The suggestion of not implementing something? Sorry, that's just as dumb.

Just because people will still be taking their 5aps DD tanks into Nirvana to tank for them, that doesn't mean something shouldn't be done. That's a little bit like saying "Well since most archers in this game are endgame and are using bows, we should take out x-bows and slings and their ammo!" It just doesn't work, the argument holds no water and generally, it's on the same level of stupid as people asking for infinite aggro.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There are 3 important questions still unanswered for those of you who wants the increasing aggro.

1. Do you want to increase aggro just for the sake of increasing aggro?

2. If you say give barb infinite aggro.

3. Even if you get barbs to be able to tank with good DDs, what will prevent them from thinking " I can do this a barb then, why need a barb now to take a bite out of my profits?" or " barbs are acting so greedy, if i let him tank ,he'll QQ about his repair cost and demands 1st pick, I might as well tank it myself".

1) People want aggro to scale properly. It currently doesn't. Haven't you actually been reading? No. I didn't think so.

2) lolustupid?

3) lolustupid!

Some ideas are being thrown around like bosses untankable by non-tank barbs, or even aggros which scales with refining. Thats obviously better than what Aubree or Micheal can contribute.

Apparently you have no comprehension skills. This is obvious. You are providing walls of text that really have little to say and contribute nothing to the discussion.

As for you people saying that barbs will be useless at endgame, I would not think so. They are still good for faction errands, lowbie squad tanking or even accepting charity from someone like Aubree. So if you are a barb, look for Aubree(Dreamweaver) to help you with whatever you want. She doesnt want you to feel useless anyway.

You're one of those greedy people who run HH and distribute based on class and level right? So cutting out the barb means you get first pick, right? lol.

And if all of this is complete nonsense, or the notion of tank DDs is a little too foreign for you, please kindly remove yourself fro the thread. This thread is for those who know of the problem and can contribute something intelligent to it.

Why are you posting in this thread then?

If you cannot answer the 3 questions above, forget about increasing barb's skill's aggro. This topic is brought up because there is a certain problem(barbs being the less popular tanks), and increasing aggro to barbs skills certainly wont address the problem.

You're a nut job.

b:bye

SaintDominic - Sanctuary

Wow this whole is argument is very interesting. -Grabs popcorn and soda-

PooRitan - Sanctuary

i think the main issue is that the game, when it was developed, was not thought through up to end game in every detail.
and some details just **** up the whole game play and the meaning of a whole class.
in this case, obviously, the "detail" is int gear in combination with fists.


the damage output of fists increases more then other weapon types by a marginal increase of int.
thats a fact. was it supposed to be that way? was it just overlooked when making the game? since int gear was always within the game code.
was it ever supposed to kill a high end boss in 20 seconds?
i think you all can answer the last question yourself. no it was not.


i agree on that agro skills on lvl 11 (sage/demon) should be abit tuned up since in higher lvls the damage output of high end dd's increases already with their designated weapon due refine and higher gear more then over the agro capability of barbs.


but that won't solve the issue since most other people still can take the damage.
tanking is a combination of taking the damage and keeping the agro.
all will still prefer the 5 aps tanks for farming and leave the tiger tanks behind. faster kills => more coin/time. that is rational thinking and the base assumption of economic theories.
individuals maximize their benefit.


since fists are the most effective weapon for half of the classes and most take advantage of it. are now most other weapons pointless? does not the game itself gets pointless?
i had the idea too of restircting fists to bms only. but then again i remembered what is one of the beautifull aspects of this game is. the choice of building your char how you want stat wise. armor choice, weapon choice. think of HA venos with axes. it makes it more colourful. and again the barb problem wouldn't be solved.


and giving barbs the uber blahblub agro by one click is the wrong way too. agro management between tank and dd was always an interesting aspect of the game. sadly many dd's never understood the way it works (i play a lvl 95 archer and know both sides of the agro). but yes towards endgame even with the "class weapons" the barb agro gets too weak compared to the dd power of the other people.


only way i personally see to restore the game to the way the classes are supposed to work is:


-cap the max APS of EACH weapon, for each weapon type a different max tunable attack speed, that all weapons end up with an equal damage output like those weapons were supposed to be.
-increase the threat lvl by lvl 11 barb agro skills


i also have the question if in the original version of this game int gear can be same easy optained like in this version. since changes will most likely only occur when they have the same issue then we have.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hi I'm back

@ Aubree, if you lack the skills to have an intelligent conversation, you can always go QQ in the eq faction chat or to Ajay or whatever, and not resorting to personal attacks lol. Oh yea, you can ask Goonz to increase the aggro for you. Since he is like the biggest cash shopper in dreamweaver or whatever.

LOL I still think you logged alts to try to sway the vote.. and try taking some of your own advice. I only said you logged alts to vote.. you go all hay wire pissed the hell off and start
" resorting to personal attacks lol".

Oh and DrAgOOnZ and Ajay and all of EQ. Everyone of them definitly knows infinitely more than you about this game.

Another thought, no one said they should have "infinite aggro". Read the thread name.. it says double the aggro on barb skills.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Another thought, no one said they should have "infinite aggro". Read the thread name.. it says double the aggro on barb skills.

Actually just to say, despite the thread name and the OP's suggestion of doubling aggro, a couple of people have come on here suggesting to just increase barb's aggro indefinitely.

I'm all for bashing the stupid comments but I'm also all for recognising when something has been said, so... yeah. It was a stupid suggestion put forward but it was put forward.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

I don't know how much you guys know about MMO's, but basic thing is that you never ever 'restore' anything this late. When the damage has been done, it's too late. You should never nerf, only buff others.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

PooRitan - Sanctuary wrote: »

the damage output of fists increases more then other weapon types by a marginal increase of int.
thats a fact. was it supposed to be that way? was it just overlooked when making the game? since int gear was always within the game code.
was it ever supposed to kill a high end boss in 20 seconds?
i think you all can answer the last question yourself. no it was not.

+9000

It's not that tank's aggro doesn't scale properly. It's the problem that the DDs scale too freaking high and not as intended. +12 refines and full -interval are not the norm as how the skills were designed.

Just because people care about their gear more at endgame doesn't make this a fact how the skills should scale up. Skills were designed to scale for average gear (and by average I don't mean what people consider average, but in-between NPC gear and TT gear), like it is in "lowbie" levels.

Use average gear at endgame and you'll see not as many problems. This game is a real challenge -- if you use average gear. People who complain barb aggro skill is too low or the game is easy should fault themselves for it. YOU and your above-average gear is what makes it "easy". Blame yourself.