double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually just to say, despite the thread name and the OP's suggestion of doubling aggro, a couple of people have come on here suggesting to just increase barb's aggro indefinitely.

I'm all for bashing the stupid comments but I'm also all for recognising when something has been said, so... yeah. It was a stupid suggestion put forward but it was put forward.

I must have missed those posts. I thought she was exaggerating because clearly she wants barbs to stay in lower ranks.

To Borsuc.. the fact remains that gear is now the norm. Skills should be updated accordingly. No one who has farmed nirvana for 6-8 hours a day, to get the gear they have, is going to not utilize it. PWI is not going to magicallt take all the -int gear out or nerf it.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I must have missed those posts. I thought she was exaggerating because clearly she wants barbs to stay in lower ranks.

To Borsuc.. the fact remains that gear is now the norm. Skills should be updated accordingly. No one who has farmed nirvana for 6-8 hours a day, to get the gear they have, is going to not utilize it. PWI is not going to magicallt take all the -int gear out or nerf it.

Don't deny her attitude towards barbs for one second and agree with you there completely, but sadly there was another person **** enough to suggest something so full of **** like "barbs should have indefinite aggro"

Also, +1 to your last paragraph.

The issue is that even +12 axes with two garnet gems wouldn't hold aggro against a +12 bow with the same gems, etc. etc. While technically the issue is with the weapons, at this point a nerf to weapons is basically going to **** off so many cash shoppers that honestly, the company is never going to do it.
So, to save themselves a lot of rage, the only way this would be even remotely improved upon would be to update barbarian skills instead.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

When did I say that it wasn't? People with that kind of gear can tank the instances just fine without a barb. :P

Now, once you acquire Nirvana what other content do you wish? Another instance that gives you even MORE gear?

You'll eventually run out of them, and once you get the "end" gear everything will seem easy, because you overgear any designed instance or boss or skill or whatever.

And besides, high refines are in cash shop. Making the game require them would be akin to making instances so hard you need to charmed to finish them at all. Would make this game a pay-to-win in PvE too.


EDIT: Do you wish to make instances so hard to be tankable only by elite-geared barbs instead? What is the point of barbs to hold aggro then, if someone else can tank just fine? If they did that would make the endgame instances open only to 1% of the population. b:surrender

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Do you wish to make instances so hard to be tankable only by elite-geared barbs instead? What is the point of barbs to hold aggro then, if someone else can tank just fine? If they did that would make the endgame instances open only to 1% of the population. b:surrender

What people are asking for is a chance for barbarians to be able to continue their roles as tanks outside of TW, particularly because not everybody is a CSer or merchant and their are plenty of high levels out there with gear that many Nirvana wearers would easily consider mediocre at best.

It's already been said that DD tanks will still be taken above barbarians and this is just a fact people are going to have to accept. However, as I said earlier, just because a certain number of players will continue to take their 5aps DDs because it's faster and easier, that doesn't mean something shouldn't be done.

Since the company cannot nerf gear without causing a huge outcry, the next best thing to do that would still allow for players with more average gear and barbs to tank certain high level instances would be to improve and update barb's aggro skills. Not all of the time, but some of the time.

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

It'll be better if people like Lylfo - a forum troller of Dreamweaver - keep out of atleast barb-related threads.

K, secondly, like I said in an earlier post on this thread, the issue lies clearly with the Barbarian class' skills not doing their job of aggro holding right; Seriously there's only one damn aggro skill for the primary class which was designed to be the main tank. Yeah, Im not saying Barbs r/should the only tanks, BUT it doesnt make BMs the primary tank class end-game either. Barbs' ONLY good aggro skill (Flesh Ream) gets maxed at lvl 54..now thats a joke. and lvl 11 doesnt give a big boost to the skill either, as of now.
Here's sum of my own suggestions:
=> Like the thread is abt, give barbs more than one good skill that can be used to really increase threat level of Barbs. {Dont even talk of Devour, it doesnt help hold aggro even 1/10th of current FR. Also, Dont talk abt Sunder. Tho its a good aggro skill, it needs 2 sparks & therefore not a skill that can be used effectively the whole time in an 'end-game' squad inside an end-game instance}

=> Like sum1 else suggested, put a cap on each wep category's atk speed.

=> In case the second suggestion cant be implmented, make it that Barbs can learn Claw/Fist Mastery {In short, make it that Barbs can use tiger form/humanoid skills having Unarmed/Axes/Hammrs/Claws/Fists, thus adding an extra wep tree to be usable by barbs }

=> Lastly & one of the biggest change that really needs to be done is...Making barb tiger form skills do more dmg. Alternatively, removing the dmg reduction barrier from Sage barbs (in tiger form)/ Adding sumthing like +1-2% crit boost to base crit% for Demon barbs (in tiger form).

Edit: if sum1's confused why I said the last point, its basically to make the barbs get their role as the tank back & Also, to make them get their spot back in the "best squads" like few people argued b4. Better base dmg/dmg from skills = better tank & a good DD at the same time. More safer runs, slightly lesser imbalance among melee classes

Telarith - Sanctuary

You guys also need to look forward, why make a temp fix that works in some areas for only the immediate future?

First there are two very different areas you would want to fit one overhaul to take care of without ruining the other; TT bosses and BH/FB instances.

Adjusting aggro for TT boss' would not be as high, but also would do jack for making them needed for BH/FB tanking, or other non-150 bosses. If adjusted to BH/FB, any ****** who can find a button 1 time out of 10 could tank TT bosses with no chance of aggro loss. That would also be ridiculous.

Then there is the effects that can happen when they increase level caps. The damage reduction against 150 bosses will not be as great, so again there would be complaints of needing to adjust it again. So I am definitely in agreement that a simple fix like doubling won't really be useful, a more permanent solution that addresses all issues as good as possible should be thought of now. Band-aid fixes, if implemented, would just end up delaying complaints to a later time.

As to if 5 APS was intended, Nirvana does make it seem so. 5 APS was possible before Nirvana, and they went ahead and added another -.05 interval piece. Rumors suggest there might be more coming with rank 9 as well, so even a speed buff nerf to demon spark would just shift 5 APS to higher level/credit limit while still maintaining it. FYI, stop reading clueless posts and using their times for killing bosses as gospel; they are as clueless as you in all likelihood.

One thing I don't agree with, is when admitted full tank build barbs wonder why they can't hold aggro. Full vit is not designed to deal damage, and they likely do not have -interval geared up as well. You should have seen how bad barb's like that tanked before they buffed Flesh Ream to be 100% hit, nothing like a stream of misses to make aggro management fun.

Now a fully -int geared barb should be able to have their aggro management, if done by a competent barb spamming their aggro skills properly, to keep aggro from a fister with similar amount of -int. A non -int barb with min dex and str and rest in Vit, however, should not. BMs are choosing to give up in some areas to get that, in addition to high cost. Being given enough aggro management that 10 mil in coin cost for gear trumps 500mil + is not realistic.

Only thing I can think of, if just adjusting aggro, would be to assign aggro almost like it was damage at current lvl. And then have some way, either a new skill or add instead of -int, that acts as if the barb was higher level. So the reduction from being under-leveled compared to a 150 boss would be the baseline, and adjusting it would increase aggro against TT bosses by up to 4 times if it allows to go up to 150 aggro lvl. Against same level bosses, it should ramp up to a higher amount as well. The exact adjustment level would need to be tested of course, but would hopefully cover all the issues mentioned already.

Main thing is there does not seem to be an existing mechanic in game that would allow for the adjustment wanted that would balance TT bosses, FB/BH bosses, and future changes with the currently suggested ideas. Barbs were buffed once already, now another is sought. Go for a third later on, and don't be surprised if it gets ignored. So try to make sure this change is done right.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Now a fully -int geared barb should be able to have their aggro management, if done by a competent barb spamming their aggro skills properly, to keep aggro from a fister with similar amount of -int. A non -int barb with min dex and str and rest in Vit, however, should not. BMs are choosing to give up in some areas to get that, in addition to high cost. Being given enough aggro management that 10 mil in coin cost for gear trumps 500mil + is not realistic.

What if -int was change from a base system to a % system?

That way a full -int axe barb will get the % damage boost as a full -int fist user.

As it is, a full -int axe barb can't hold agro against a similarly gear fist user.

And maybe tack on some more agro to flesh ream/devour at the same time? To make up for the damage reduction in tiger form. o_O

PooRitan - Sanctuary

i think ElderSig understood what i wanted to say.
question is if % intervall does not still give an advantage to faster weapons due more chi/spark ability

Longknife - Harshlands

This is going off on a tangent but I'm curious:


In FC runs, sometimes I can cast two spells (or more) before pulling aggro, and other times I can't even cast ONE. It seems to have something to do with the barb, but I have no idea what in the hell that farker could be doing wrong to not even be able to hold aggro for one spell. I wait until I see Roar go off to cast, but I still pull aggro with the first spell with some barbs. Something to do with Roar level or the barb build?

Asperitas - Lost City

PooRitan - Sanctuary wrote: »

i think ElderSig understood what i wanted to say.
question is if % intervall does not still give an advantage to faster weapons due more chi/spark ability

Redesigning -int affects PVP, another aspect that should be taken into consideration.

PooRitan - Sanctuary

@Longknife: barbs skill discussion you can find in different threads.
good that you want to know more of the skills of the classes you squad with but its the wrong thread.
but little hint. roar (the sowrd thingi above mobs head) generates only very smal agro and prevents at best heal agro. the barb needs to do a second agro move like sunder or alpha in aoe situations to bound the mobs on him until they are dead (even that is not enough when the mobs last too long).
more about the skill you will find in the barb class discussion.

Dsholder - Dreamweaver

It is possible for a barb to have -5.0 attack speed with OHT gold axes with 2 negative intervals on them, but making these....is kinda hard! SO farm card bosses and chances the axes....another solution to this ....could be to amplify barbarians fleash ream with the jones blessing so that it bleeds more on bosses too

Traz - Dreamweaver

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is possible for a barb to have -5.0 attack speed with OHT gold axes with 2 negative intervals on them, but making these....is kinda hard! SO farm card bosses and chances the axes....another solution to this ....could be to amplify barbarians fleash ream with the jones blessing so that it bleeds more on bosses too

FFS, you think the bleed damage has any say on the aggro with flesh ream?

Telarith - Sanctuary

Dsholder - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is possible for a barb to have -5.0 attack speed with OHT gold axes with 2 negative intervals on them, but making these....is kinda hard! SO farm card bosses and chances the axes....another solution to this ....could be to amplify barbarians fleash ream with the jones blessing so that it bleeds more on bosses too

So you've found a way for a Unique Add-on to appear more than once? That would be quite a feat, given unique means only one can appear on the weapon. Otherwise people would be running around with dual Sac Strike axes, instead of -.2 int. Not to mention a Poleaxe would be better, since it has a higher attack speed in the first place, and is still useable by tiger form barb.

We seem to only be getting the regular barb forum rabble, instead of those knowledgeable ones who rarely post once more, so not sure whether posting in this thread will be more than a waste of time very shortly.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

LOL funny how every thread turns into a debate on -int.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

So you've found a way for a Unique Add-on to appear more than once? That would be quite a feat, given unique means only one can appear on the weapon. Otherwise people would be running around with dual Sac Strike axes, instead of -.2 int. Not to mention a Poleaxe would be better, since it has a higher attack speed in the first place, and is still useable by tiger form barb.

We seem to only be getting the regular barb forum rabble, instead of those knowledgeable ones who rarely post once more, so not sure whether posting in this thread will be more than a waste of time very shortly.

I have seen OHT gear with 2 adds of .05 int. Never saw with 2 adds of .1 tho.

VlLKASS - Sanctuary

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I have seen OHT gear with 2 adds of .05 int. Never saw with 2 adds of .1 tho.

You can get x2 .05-int; Can't -.1 on OHT. Atleast according to the dabatase & all the crafting I've done b:embarrass which is a lot...

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Gona put this right here for clarity sake, note that my number 1 and 2 talks about what happens if what is voted for in this thread is implemented. The next question will be, how much aggro is increased? Double? Then go to no. 1. As you can see, no.1 has the potential to be a recursion. There wont be enough aggro to hold aggro vs any DD, so the most it can go is giving barbs infinite aggros which is definitely not somewhere we want to go.

1. Do you want to increase aggro just for the sake of increasing aggro? So what if you can hold aggro better with x dps DDs, the next generation of barbs is going to QQ about how they are losing aggro to the x+1 dps DDs. What do you do then? Make another forum poll and QQ about how lacking it is?
-why i come to this conclusion : there are a few cases of barbs incapable of holding aggro here. the two extremes
1. a +12 nirvana axe barb cant hold aggro vs 5.0 aps DDs
2. a 90+ barb cant hold aggro vs 3-ish aps barb
Conclusion: increasing aggro might satisfy barbs in category 2, but what about those in category 1?

2. If you say give barb infinite aggro. Then there is something wrong with your head. Why have the aggro mechanics and all that if they want to break aggro at end game? Aggro management is part of the game, agree? Giving barbs infinite aggro would be breaking the game, worse than now. Imagine you DD-ing a world boss to 1/2 hp. A barb flesh ream it, gained aggro and take it on a cruise around the world. And imagine a +0 cala axe barb holding aggro against +12 warsoul dagger.

3. Even if you get barbs to be able to tank with good DDs, what will prevent them from thinking " I can do this a barb then, why need a barb now to take a bite out of my profits?" or " barbs are acting so greedy, if i let him tank ,he'll QQ about his repair cost and demands 1st pick, I might as well tank it myself".

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

I still think that a barb with lvl 11 aggro skills should be able to steal and hold aggro from just about anyone in-game though. They should indeed have a skill that can always hold aggro... that's kind of the point of a tanking class, and at end-game, that should be an almost guaranteed trait.this paragraph kinda screams infinite aggro to me, so I had to address it, somehow.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

2) lolustupid?

Yes, Micheal, split personality much?

Lastly, if I am still not making sense to you, perhaps the way Telarith puts it can show you how this idea of doubling aggro is flawed. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9194912&postcount=337

There was another post by her that explains(much better than I can) about the wrong way to think about this problem.

If I hate barbs as much as everyone here thinks, why do I spend time and energy responding to the "trolls" and other people then? As much as I love to see tank barbs being a class that can contribute to end game, doubling aggro is kinda the worst way to do this.

Better suggestions:
1. allow barbs damage to scale with -int better(which is how restating to claws address this)
2. allows barbs aggro scale with refine( makes it more fair, you want to hold better aggro, invest in your gears)
3. make barbs needed in tanking bosses(this idea is 1 step forward and 2 steps backward since DDs cant maximise damage output, and like waht Telarith said, giving too much power to barbs will make them too conceited and start to demand stuff)
4. give barbs another aggro skill - this is the same thing as doubling aggro on flesh ream. too little, (its a temporary fix, barbs are going to come back for more aggro), too much, you break the aggro mechanics.

So, who else is supporting the idea of doubling aggro of flesh ream and thinks that it will work?

It is kinda disappointing that only a few people read what I wrote and not blinding jumping on bandwagons, and throwing accusations like I hate barbs or I logged in 14 alts to tip the poll to my side. Maybe I am playing a different game than most of you lol.

And you haters can keep responding to this. Aubree still not contributing anything, and Micheal clearly not reading what I am writing(until he calls himself stupid lol).

edit: the other by Telarith, http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9128042&postcount=200 (she explains it much better than me)

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It is kinda disappointing that only a few people read what I wrote and not blinding jumping on bandwagons, and throwing accusations like I hate barbs or I logged in 14 alts to tip the poll to my side. Maybe I am playing a different game than most of you lol.

And you haters can keep responding to this. Aubree still not contributing anything, and Micheal clearly not reading what I am writing(until he calls himself stupid lol).

Firstly, ur idea of making barbs restat to Claws & like u say u r sick of saying it again & again; u should be aware people have got sick of ur so-called intelligent comments which r in no way contributing to this thread. Also idk why the ABCD would be sumbody be as stupid to think doubling aggro on FR will be like allotting indefinite aggro to barbs.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Better suggestions:
1. allow barbs damage to scale with -int better(which is how restating to claws address this)
2. allows barbs aggro scale with refine( makes it more fair, you want to hold better aggro, invest in your gears)
3. make barbs needed in tanking bosses(this idea is 1 step forward and 2 steps backward since DDs cant maximise damage output, and like waht Telarith said, giving too much power to barbs will make them too conceited and start to demand stuff)
4. give barbs another aggro skill - this is the same thing as doubling aggro on flesh ream. too little, (its a temporary fix, barbs are going to come back for more aggro), too much, you break the aggro mechanics.

Seriously, u got the worst "suggestions" of all...
1. Like I (and others) said, Making Barbs reroll to Claws to be competitive is NOT the ABCDing solution to the aggro problem.

2. There again, u tried to prove ur fail wisdom. While it is already been cleared & even YOU urself mentioned in this very post that a +12 Nirvana axes Barb CANNOT hold aggro against a +5 APS BM, What The ABCD makes u think making barbs invest heavily on refines will them make able to hold aggro. The ABCDing Problem lies with the aggro level aka threat level aka AGGRO of the barbs' skills and NOT with their wep damage.

3. The only point u got right..but u basically didnt give any suggestion but merely said what others r trying to say.

4. Another point that makes me say YOU should stop posting atleast on BARB-related threads. Barbarian class was made to be the primary tanking class. And this one damn class got just 1 damned skill to hold aggro. lemme repeat, JUST ONE DAMNED AGGRO SKILL...till end-game. Whats wrong in giving the Barbs atleast 1-2 more skills that can be used to hold aggro better? And Again, What The French Connection UK makes u think giving another skill besides FR to barbs will make them have indefinite aggro?

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Firstly, ur idea of making barbs restat to Claws & like u say u r sick of saying it again & againnope, I didnt say tht at all in that post, didnt ask anyone to go restat to fist build; u should be aware people have got sick of ur so-called intelligent comments which r in no way contributing to this threadorly now?. Also idk why the ABCD would be sumbody be as stupid to think doubling aggro on FR will be like allotting indefinite aggro to barbs.lol you lack the intelligence to read and comprehend, try going back to kindergarten, maybe that'll help



Seriously, u got the worst "suggestions" of all...
1. Like I (and others) said, Making Barbs reroll to Claws to be competitive is NOT the ABCDing solution to the aggro problem.not making, its a suggestion. something like psychic's soulforce but instead of scaling with refines, aggro or damage scales with -int stats instead.

2. There again, u tried to prove ur fail wisdom. While it is already been cleared & even YOU urself mentioned in this very post that a +12 Nirvana axes Barb CANNOT hold aggro against a +5 APS BMthe suggestion is to fix it, and its a much better solution than adding aggro lol, What The ABCD makes u think making barbs invest heavily on refines will them make able to hold aggro. The ABCDing Problem lies with the aggro level aka threat level aka AGGRO of the barbs' skills and NOT with their wep damage. you can make aggro depends on other factors, and not just a static amount on skills, its part of game design and necessary at this point because static amounts of aggro dont contribute much to barbs holding aggro(unless you make it infinite which in turn, breaks game mechanics)

3. The only point u got right..but u basically didnt give any suggestion but merely said what others r trying to say.lol yea, 1 step forward and 2 steps backwards is something someone else has said. also, a suggestion like this will only allow barbs to demand unreasonable things

4. Another point that makes me say YOU should stop posting atleast on BARB-related threadslolumad?. Barbarian class was made to be the primary tanking classuntil late game. And this one damn class got just 1 damned skill to hold aggro. lemme repeat, JUST ONE DAMNED AGGRO SKILL...till end-game. Whats wrong in giving the Barbs atleast 1-2 more skills that can be used to hold aggro betterits the same twisted logic as increasing barbs skills aggro? And Again, What The French Connection UK lol i dont shop theremakes u think giving another skill besides FR to barbs will make them have indefinite aggro?it will eventually lead to it, since there are 2 extremes of barbs not able to hold aggro, increasing aggro(not infinite) is only going to satisfy the lower end of the spectrum

b:pleased .

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

Kindergarten b:chuckle

lylfo can spam in red too!
bearware!

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Kindergarten b:chuckle

lylfo can spam in red too!
bearware!

aww thank you. b:cute
I almost thought I need to color another post blood red b:sin

edit: telarith's post explaining it better than me http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9128042&postcount=200

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

(Not gonna quote the whole damn big post of u "trying" to correct me)

Ofc im not that an idiot to quote sum1 wrongly & blame them. You didnt say it in ur last post (the one which I quoted) but u DID say it ..again & again.. that barbs can do good only by restating to Claws/Fists nowadays. its u who should be going to kindergarten to read and comprehend what I wrote (and what others wrote)..maybe that'll help (tho I seriously doubt b:laugh)
k going to ur suggestions,
1. I corrected u but then u say "not making, its a suggestion". But then why in most of ur posts I see u wanting barbs to restat to Claws "coz thats how the game is now" ?

2. Again u say "the suggestion is to fix it, and its a much better solution than adding aggro lol" But thats what every1 wants and the solution to that is, making barb skills generate more aggro. BUT..u just got the concept of "doubling aggro" the wrong way in ur freaking mind.

4. Barb class was made to be the primary Tank. do ya understand the meaning of the term Primary Tank Class? and it was/IS supposed to be that way EVEN IN END-GAME. Tho yeah, that isnt the case anymore, it still doesnt change what should've been the case.

Having a Barb since beta stages of pw, lemme give u a bit of insight abt the BM class. BM class was made to use a variety of skills/weapons & were primarily a Dmg Dealing Class, And a Secondary Tank class. they used to (and r supposed to) wear LA gear to have a kin of "balance" between their Mag & Phy Defenses. They were NEVER meant to be the main tank class at end-game. But since every game evolves/adapts to better stuff...few people started wearing HA gear for more HP from better refines which HA gives ("End-game" was 80-90 then). Since then, (and since they could use HA effectively) almost every1 started using HA & now the guides of BM forums instruct the new players playing BMs to use HA gear. Ofc, the anni packs came & fcukedup balance between classes later on. Then sum1 discovered the end-game dmg from stacked int & claws, and thus spread the madness abt Claws..which were considered as the most crappiest of wep choice among the BMs b4.

In short, BMs were NEVER the End-Game Tanks. And Nor were the archers using Deicides. And No other Class ever was. Although I dont say Barbs should be the only class to tank all bosses, since sumtimes LAs/AAs r better tanks in sum conditions, BUT Barbs still deserve the title of being the Primary Tanking Class..even at current End-Game. And THAT is whats broken, thanks to the Lunar Claws & broken -int & its "abuse" (not really the word, but dunno how to describe it better)

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

(Not gonna quote the whole damn big post of u "trying" to correct me)

Ofc im not that an idiot to quote sum1 wrongly & blame them. You didnt say it in ur last post (the one which I quoted) but u DID say it ..again & again.. that barbs can do good only by restating to Claws/Fists nowadaysbecause it is the only way for a barb to keep up with insane int gears DD right now. tell me, does it work right now? and what else is working?. its u who should be going to kindergarten to read and comprehend what I wrote (and what others wrote)..maybe that'll help (tho I seriously doubt b:laugh)wow originality 0/10
k going to ur suggestions,
1. I corrected u but then u say "not making, its a suggestion". But then why in most of ur posts I see u wanting barbs to restat to Claws "coz thats how the game is now" ?explained up there

2. Again u say "the suggestion is to fix it, and its a much better solution than adding aggro lol" But thats what every1 wants and the solution to that is, making barb skills generate more aggro. BUT..u just got the concept of "doubling aggro" the wrong way in ur freaking mind.how wrong can it be? aggro = aggro +aggro? look here, aggro might be an abstract term for you jsut like pixie dusts, but it is a countable concept to me. I can value aggros at how much damage dealt before a barb lose his aggro(sadly no one even tried to do this in this thread. idea of doubling aggro is kinda lame, i dont know how much it'll help with holding aggro)you need to re-enroll yourself in elementary math class and understand aggro(seriously lvl 100+ barb not knowing how to view aggro?)

4. Barb class was made to be the primary Tank. do ya understand the meaning of the term Primary Tank Class? and it was/IS supposed to be that way EVEN IN END-GAME. Tho yeah, that isnt the case anymore, it still doesnt change what should've been the case.lol, self contradiction right there, if its not the case anymore, why insists that that should have been the case?

Having a Barb since beta stages of pw, lemme give u a bit of insight abt the BM class. BM class was made to use a variety of skills/weapons & were primarily a Dmg Dealing Class, And a Secondary Tank class. they used to (and r supposed to) wear LA gear to have a kin of "balance" between their Mag & Phy Defenses. They were NEVER meant to be the main tank class at end-game. But since every game evolves/adapts to better stuff...few people started wearing HA gear for more HP from better refines which HA gives ("End-game" was 80-90 then). Since then, (and since they could use HA effectively) almost every1 started using HA & now the guides of BM forums instruct the new players playing BMs to use HA gear. Ofc, the anni packs came & fcukedup balance between classes later on. Then sum1 discovered the end-game dmg from stacked int & claws, and thus spread the madness abt Claws..which were considered as the most crappiest of wep choice among the BMs b4.lol a pro history lesson, not that it matters in this thread, jsut because a veno has a pet, does it mean that she has to use the pet? everyone is allowed to allocate stats freely for this concept of you can build whatever kind of class you want like arcane barb and heavy cleric, effectiveness is another matter.i'll believe you when stats are allocated automatically on level up.

In short, BMs were NEVER the End-Game Tanksuntil now, how hard is it to accept reality?. And Nor were the archers using Deicides.and the fact that they can equip deicides kinda contradicts what you are saying. they can make dagger, slingshots class specific, if archers are never meant to use claws, make claws class specific lol And No other Class ever was. Although I dont say Barbs should be the only class to tank all bosses, since sumtimes LAs/AAs r better tanks in sum conditions, BUT Barbs still deserve the title of being the Primary Tanking Class..even at current End-Gameyou do get it in the form of cata tank. And THAT is whats broken, thanks to the Lunar Claws & broken -int & its "abuse" (not really the word, but dunno how to describe it better)if the game is broken then why are you still playin it? if int is abused, why arent gms banning them?

b:pleased .

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

Im not that stupid to think "Doubling Aggro" means aggro = aggro + aggro. If u really glanced over all my posts in this thread, u should've got atleast a bit of what I mean (and what others mean) by the term 'doubling' aggro on barb skills.

But anyway... not gonna argue over rest of the points

Like my frnd SgtSIaughter's siggy rightly says, its never good to argue with an idiot; they bring u down to their lvl & beat u with experience b:surrender

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Im not that stupid to think "Doubling Aggro" means aggro = aggro + aggro. If u really glanced over all my posts in this thread, u should've got atleast a bit of what I mean (and what others mean) by the term 'doubling' aggro on barb skills.

But anyway... not gonna argue over rest of the points

Like my frnd SgtSIughter's siggy rightly says, its never good to argue with an idiot; they bring u down to their lvl & beat u with experience b:surrender

Don't feed the trolls.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Im not that stupid to think "Doubling Aggro" means aggro = aggro + aggrooh its not? then what it is, enlighten me oh wise one. If u really glanced over all my posts in this thread, u should've got atleast a bit of what I mean (and what others mean) by the term 'doubling' aggro on barb skills.you, sir, are the person who is not reading

But anyway... not gonna argue over rest of the pointsyou have nothing to argue for anyway

Like my frnd SgtSIaughter's siggy rightly says, its never good to argue with an idiotshouldnt have argued with you then b:bye; they bring u down to their lvlim level 100, you are nt down to my level yet & beat u with experiencelol, is that the best you can do? b:surrenderyep, thats what those children in kindergartens do

b:pleased .

Kwandelan - Heavens Tear

Although I dont really like openly insulting any1, but the red sentences in that last post of urs make me think u cant be more than 10 y.o...so I'll just forgive u...

"they bring u down to their lvlim level 100, you are nt down to my level yet "
- fail attempt at breaking down a phrase by a faill troll, Lylfo of Dreamweaver
b:laugh

HexOmega - Dreamweaver

i like the idea in a post in those past pages...


when they add new content:

make the end/boss with the best drops or what ever attack with a 100-500% reflect damage skill on the tank xD

no aoe or reflect on everyone b:shocked id 1hit myself with a crit



this makes the new instance un-soloable
weeeeeeeee - barbs have 2 instances left for high lvl then
Rebirth and *add new fancy name here* xD



WTB a -50% magical defense on Lvl? targets (+50% physical def in addition b:shutup)

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

HexOmega - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i like the idea in a post in those past pages...


when they add new content:

make the end/boss with the best drops or what ever attack with a 100-500% reflect damage skill on the tank xD

no aoe or reflect on everyone b:shocked id 1hit myself with a crit



this makes the new instance un-soloable
weeeeeeeee - barbs have 2 instances left for high lvl then
Rebirth and *add new fancy name here* xD



WTB a -50% magical defense on Lvl? targets (+50% physical def in addition b:shutup)

micheal can do rebirth without barb, so only 1 left. Its an idea to bring back barb in some ways, much better than what hex can come up with. define double aggro pl0x.

@Kwandelan ok, i'll just leave you with 1 serious question. Is there any other way, other than restating to fists, that a barb can hold aggro vs insane dps-er at this moment?