Why can't Archers Use Daggers?

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:laugh Ok so far in order to make everyone equally and unequally happy we have

BMs
Composite Bow - str based

Venos
Magic cordless Axes that fly around like keyblades

Archers
Advanced kitchen cutlery

Barbs
Beggin Strips, barbs don't know it's not bacon

anything to add?

What about clerics? b:cry

EDIT: Deceptistar got it inn before me lol, you must type real fast b:surrender lol.

Saitada - Sanctuary

/Thread

~S

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're complaining you can't use magic spells with an axe? Do you expect archers to be able to use barrage with daggers?

FAIL. Reread and try again. Or do i need to say it in smaller words for you to understand.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

Ahahaha fine I did realize I'm sorry guys


Clerics (you get a special post)

Axe and Shield Mastery hoorah

First Axe skill

For The Greater Good

Smite your opponent with relentless holiness dealing base weapon damage +2500 physical and metal damage.

Spell Shield of unimplementedness skill

Lvl 10 soaks up to 2000 physical damage every 3 seconds, upon shield break during the 3 seconds caster is purified of negative status.



All bettersb:cute




for the rest of you, mind yourselves it's all fun and games until someones misplaced word vomit moves threads to the lower depths

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

FAIL. Reread and try again. Or do i need to say it in smaller words for you to understand.

Maybe you can pay attention to what you type instead of concentrating on insults. You'd make fewer mistakes that way.

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

If ALL classes can use ALL weapons with no restrictions then I'll support this. You just want to pick a weapon that only helps archers to become an all class weapon. A veno who uses a melee weapon can no longer heal a pet so they would in essence become a strictly melee build.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ahahaha fine I did realize I'm sorry guys


Clerics (you get a special post)

Axe and Shield Mastery hoorah

First Axe skill

For The Greater Good

Smite your opponent with relentless holiness dealing base weapon damage +2500 physical and metal damage.

Spell Shield of unimplementedness skill

Lvl 10 soaks up to 2000 physical damage every 3 seconds, upon shield break during the 3 seconds caster is purified of negative status.



All bettersb:cute




for the rest of you, mind yourselves it's all fun and games until someones misplaced word vomit moves threads to the lower depths

I want magic based daggers Q.Q

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I want magic based daggers Q.Q

Friggle Fraggle dmn bugger bla bla angry face D8<


Hunters Daggers of Wellspring Pwn

Magical daggers that inflict dmg equal to the amount of heal done through players wellspring.

descrip: Multiple wellspring surges are crammed into the enemy causing it to eventually explode like a burrito in a microwave.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Friggle Fraggle dmn bugger bla bla angry face D8<


Hunters Daggers of Wellspring Pwn

Magical daggers that inflict dmg equal to the amount of heal done through players wellspring.

descrip: Multiple wellspring surges are crammed into the enemy causing it to eventually explode like a burrito in a microwave.

Haha thanks b:chuckleb:thanks.

TraciLords - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're complaining you can't use magic spells with an axe? Do you expect archers to be able to use barrage with daggers?

she is not complaining at all. i believe you are the one QQ ing that you cant use daggers? my dear sis is mearly pointing out that there are reasons each class is supposed to use a certain type of weapon. if veno's used an axe, they could not heal their pet.

i wanted to use a crossbow but for some reason i can't b:cry it says only archer!! to be fair with your attempt for archers to use daggers, then you must also allow every class to use every weapon. and to push that further, allow all classes to use a nix and herc.

if you want to use daqqers, reroll assassin. nuff said.

Sheyde - Sanctuary

'' Should archers be able to use Daggers?''

Sure! Just make Cleric's use axes firstb:thanks

XHappyBunnyx - Sanctuary

my veno wants to use my psychic's weapon, as well as slingshots and crossbows..... but it cant

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Sheyde - Sanctuary wrote: »

'' Should archers be able to use Daggers?''

Sure! Just make Cleric's use axes firstb:thanks

*Able to use magic based axes.

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Maybe you can pay attention to what you type instead of concentrating on insults. You'd make fewer mistakes that way.

Oh well i guess i need to use smaller words for you to comprehend. Let us start with the original post.

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

If ALL classes can use ALL weapons with no restrictions then I'll support this. You just want to pick a weapon that only helps archers to become an all class weapon. A veno who uses a melee weapon can no longer heal a pet so they would in essence become a strictly melee build.

For example...

If a veno uses an axe they will only be using melee and will not be able to heal a pet. This will turn a veno into a melee build and will make the pet of no use. Let venos use other weapons in fox form and it will not be overpowered.

sorry i used 2 words that were over 5 letters long hope they dont confuse you too much.

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

Look there's variety

Sheyde - Sanctuary

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look there's variety

+10 to smexyness

Asperitas - Lost City

Sheyde - Sanctuary wrote: »

'' Should archers be able to use Daggers?''

Sure! Just make Cleric's use axes firstb:thanks

I wasn't aware of axes being a class specific weapon.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Sneakret - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look there's variety

They are named Lynx in England b:chuckle.

Shulkie - Dreamweaver

cant be assed reading the entire thread since earlier.. seems to be a lot of quoting anyway.. but if archers want daggers i want catapults.. -5%channelling shot anyone b:surrender

Quilue - Sanctuary

Shulkie - Dreamweaver wrote: »

cant be assed reading the entire thread since earlier.. seems to be a lot of quoting anyway.. but if archers want daggers i want catapults.. -5%channelling shot anyone b:surrender

you can pull catapults...what are you talking about?

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

Oh well i guess i need to use smaller words for you to comprehend. Let us start with the original post.

For example...

If a veno uses an axe they will only be using melee and will not be able to heal a pet. This will turn a veno into a melee build and will make the pet of no use. Let venos use other weapons in fox form and it will not be overpowered.

sorry i used 2 words that were over 5 letters long hope they dont confuse you too much.

why would you jump on Ast for a small misunderstanding like that?

let's take a look at your quote:

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

If ALL classes can use ALL weapons with no restrictions then I'll support this.

and the following statement in the same paragraph:

A veno who uses a melee weapon can no longer heal a pet so they would in essence become a strictly melee build.

this statement, tied in with your first statement, could imply that you want to wield a melee weapon and be able to use heal. basically you're saying that if you could wield a melee weapon and not have to be restricted to a strictly melee build you'd support this. anyone could've read that paragraph and thought you meant that a veno using a melee weapon would be disadvantaged compared to an archer wielding daggers because you wouldn't be able to heal a pet. Ast replies saying archers can't use bow spells with daggers anyway.

Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

you can pull catapults...what are you talking about?

I think she means slingshots lol.

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

this statement, tied in with your first statement, could imply that you want to wield a melee weapon and be able to use heal. basically you're saying that if you could wield a melee weapon and not have to be restricted to a strictly melee build you'd support this. anyone could've read that paragraph and thought you meant that a veno using a melee weapon would be disadvantaged compared to an archer wielding daggers because you wouldn't be able to heal a pet. Ast replies saying archers can't use bow spells with daggers anyway.

How in any way could someone with even a shred of common sense misunderstand that. It was pretty freaking obvious. Besides your entire argument is completely flawed seeing as this was also in the exact same post that the idiot couldnt seem to comprehend.

ChaseyLain - Lost City wrote: »

As I have already stated before I am not really asking for venos to get to use any weapon just stating how stupid it is for archers to think they deserve a new weapon that allows them to do more damage than they already do. Looks like you dont like the flipside now do you? If you want to do melee damage add str and use fists.

You archers keep making enforcing my basic argument of your stupidity with every post you make. You have excuses for everything and cant even seem to understand a simple statement. There is some good advice for you in there as well. If you want to do melee damage add STR and use fists.

Quilue - Sanctuary

i'm just saying don't jump on Ast like that because it could have easily been interpreted that way. in no way has anyone been calling you an idiot despite your speculation about archers with daggers being overpowered being completely false, i'm just asking you not to flame someone who hasn't started any ****.

and what the **** are you doing? it is you who tried to assert the laughable claim that archers with daggers would be overpowered. who is making excuses here?

Asperitas - Lost City

I don't see how an archer wielding daggers is any different than an assassin using a bow. Both weapons are based off dex, and both classes follow a dex build. While archers gain damage close range, assassins gain damage long range. The weapons are perfect compliments for their classes.

So why would you argue that assassins can use bows, but it is ludicrous for an archer to wield a dagger? Just saying "because the devs made it that way pre-expansion, so I will accept it post-expansion" won't cut it.

Prior to the expansion, any other class that wanted to use a bow either had to:

1. Siphon points from other vital areas to dex.
2. Live with uber gimped damage -> BM

Because of that, nobody really cared for another class using a bow. It didn't matter. They sucked with it.

Enter the assassin. They don't suffer gimped damage, and they don't have to take points from elsewhere and allocate it to dex.

You're arguing it's useless for sins anyway because they don't have skills to compliment it, they already have long range skills and they don't have bow mastery. Blah blah blah. The bow doesn't take away from the practicality of an assassin, because their build naturally incorporates that of a bow. And as a light armor melee class, naturally mobs hurt. Long range is an asset, not a liability.

The same goes for archers. As a long range class, they lack close range damage. If an archer uses fists, they suffer from the lack of strength. Daggers would be the perfect close range weapon for them. It's based off dex, so naturally, their build will allow for it. It makes up for their **** damage up close. Just the inverse of an assassin, close range capability is an asset, not a liability.

Then you argue it's OP because archers are overcoming their short range handicap.

But like many others pointed out, it's a PVE thing. You try to take on other classes in PVP without skills, mastery and sin evasion skills with a melee weapon in light armor? Yeah see you in town.

If anything, the bows give assassins more of an edge in PVP than daggers give archers. Being far away from your opponent and sniping them even without the aids of skills and masteries is far more advantageous than being up close and personal with a pair of weapons that you have no skills for, no masteries for, and worst of all, being light armor.

To the other classes. Nobody's stopping you from wielding classes not meant for your class. Clerics go ahead and grab a pair of calamities if you want. Venos, go buy yourself a poleblade. Mages go buy a bow. Nobody's stopping you. You're stopping yourself because you know that these weapons are not complimenting your class, and to make any use of it you'd have to gimp your own.

So ask yourself. Is it so much of an OPness that you're worried about? Or is it because you're jealous your class doesn't get a complimentary weapon?

If you're worried about OPness, go poll for bows to be restricted to archers only, because assassins are benefiting from it just as much as archers would from daggers.

Personally I don't care how this goes. Either you give archers daggers or you take bows from sins. But arguing that archers are OP with daggers while sins are walking with bows is hypocrisy at it's best.

Boarian - Sanctuary

ROFL this discussion is still going on. I would have to say at this point i am entertained.

Asperitas well said

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i'm just saying don't jump on Ast like that because it could have easily been interpreted that way. in no way has anyone been calling you an idiot despite your speculation about archers with daggers being overpowered being completely false, i'm just asking you not to flame someone who hasn't started any ****.

and what the **** are you doing? it is you who tried to assert the laughable claim that archers with daggers would be overpowered. who is making excuses here?

WRONG AGAIN.

Matalina - Lost City wrote: »

that is the reason right there that archers should NEVER get to use daggers. an archer is a ranged class. they are not supposed to do full damage up close that is the only way that a melee class has a chance against an archer. if an archer is able to spam skills from long range and when someone gets close switch to a different weapon that still does full damage that would be insanely overpowered.

oh wait you expect to get every advantage without having any weaknesses. if archers get daggers BMs may as well just uninstall now because they will have no chance against an archer who destroys them with metal attacks from a distance and when the BM finally gets in range to attack the archer switches to a dagger and still does insane damage and just crits them to death.

too bad so sad. they havent renamed the game to "Archer World" yet.

Annastasia - Lost City wrote: »

Archers should NEVER be allowed to use daggers. How stupid are you people? Oh yeah it would be nice to do insane damage close up but then the next thing that will happen is that melee classes will have to get ranged attacks which have 30m range and can do both elemental or physical damage just to balance it. Damn archers are the biggest QQers on this entire game.

QQ I am an archer and we are entitled to be the best PVP class so just give me a free +12 warsoul and give me 100m range or this is unfair. No other class has the right to ever touch me because I can an archer damn it.

Grow up people.

Yes 1 was an obvious alt of someone but the other is an archer who said before i ever even posted that archers should never be allowed to use daggers.

Go back to what you are good at...Fail More Talk Less

ChaseyLain - Lost City

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

Perhaps you should get over yourself?

Sage weapon mastery adds 200% weapon damage to your attack, so you get very nice bonuses from garnets, might rings, TT ornaments, and so on. And magic swords get nearly 3/4 the base damage of regular swords, and no class using regular swords gets that +200% weapon damage bonus that you could get or could have gotten.

Meanwhile, if you want to use gx axes or something you can. You can stat yourself for heavy armor and tank with your pet adding damage, debuffing or even giving you some minor healing. Non-combat pet healing works just fine if you gear yourself properly and if blademasters can manage to swap weapons I can not imagine any reason for human form venos to not be able to.

On topic: I have no personal objection to archers with daggers. But I imagine this would require additional dagger based attack animations for other classes and I see little gain here and expect that the devs see no real advantage in this kind of effort.

maybe when you learn to read and not just pick out 1 statement to suit your purposes your opinion MIGHT mean something. until then you are just another clueless idiot thinking you know whats going on.

Quilue - Sanctuary

why don't you actually read what people who don't think it's overpowered have to say. you don't do insane damage with daggers just because it's dex based. for the record, archers already have melee physical skills based on their ranged weapons (winged pledge). you know, the same ranged weapons with much, much, higher weapon attack than daggers that also gets boosted by masteries. so, after about 200m spent on your gear, daggers can finally match the DPS of a physical melee skill archers already have.

i love how the quotes you presented just claim **** without any solid proof to back them up. yet there are equally as many posts about how it wouldn't imbalance PvP and you don't even acknowledge them.

when a heavy approaches an archer, it seems that only you would equip daggers and try to fight it out with normal attacks. you're facing up against classes that have more hp, more defense, weapons that can zerk, and able to use full range of their skills (stuns, amps, debuffs) and you're going to restricted yourself to only using physical attacks? news flash: it's called mother****ing metal, learn to ****ing use it LOL! it's like your head is up your **** or something claiming archers would magically be able to tick down a heavy's charm with bloody daggers. does light armor at melee range mean anything to you? what further convincing do you need? look at how many survival skills assassins have.

****ing daggers being available to all classes would only be for fun and useful for PvE.

Badazmofo - Dreamweaver

lol i dont know why you ppl are getting so worked up bout this b:chuckle yes im an archer yes i think it would be pretty frickin sweet to use daggers yes i think all wepons should be all class if your a veno and you wanna rock a Xbow go for it but without the skills it aint much trust me i use Xbow and if i didnt have the mag atks i wouldnt use it it does a lil more dmg than the regular bow but is alot slower.... so if ya wanna give it a try be my guest as for the daggers were not asking to have special skills made up we just want some thing that suplements our class and makes the game more diverse hell i dont care if i cant use any skill with them i just wanna play with them its my belife that if you put a wepon in game let everyone use it.... now i just know someone is gonna say so ya want to use pets to mr archer well the anser is yes it would be nice but pets are a venos skill basicly so just let everyone use every thing then everyone can quit QQing and get back to haveing fun on the game

Sheeeba - Dreamweaver

I have no idea why anyone would WANT to put a bow on a sin or daggers on an archer. If you have any idea how to play said class, it shouldn't even enter your mind to use a wep that's not meant for your class.