TW Discussion - Twilight Temple

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary

Highlights of the week:

RR, Regi, random faction attacking nef
Bid wars on the remaining factions. Dont know who won for each.
Nef + emi attacking Enely.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary

LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »

random faction attacking nef

Random faction = Renegades, if that's so then sorry to say its nor typically random, it has a few high lvl ppl, and is around for quite sometime.

CapnK - Sanctuary

Nef loves TW with Enely so much, they came back for more!

Ceshiari - Sanctuary

b:kiss @ Outlaw

SarahC - Sanctuary

CapnK - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nef loves TW with Enely so much, they came back for more!

lawl cap b:chuckle

Minimus - Sanctuary

By_uL - Sanctuary wrote: »

Given the economy, you'll be surprised at how little my income can bolster my ranks. This point I find insignificant.

Even with the current goldprices it is still significant. And holding certain land means an adavantage regarding ressources and many other things. Normal for any faction to make use of this advantage, especially when being faced by double/triple attacks. But also normal to question these (huge) advantages.

Evga - Sanctuary

well, i don't deny that there is an advantage to holding land, i'm just arguing there is less advantage compared to about half a year ago. but strife, that is precisely the reason why i will never support dumping all money to help one person refine. You cannot gauge the loyalty of a person accurately. That is why i rather not put all my coins in one pot :P

rather spread them all out and let the person figure it out.

By_uL - Sanctuary

Minimus - Sanctuary wrote: »

Even with the current goldprices it is still significant. And holding certain land means an adavantage regarding ressources and many other things. Normal for any faction to make use of this advantage, especially when being faced by double/triple attacks. But also normal to question these (huge) advantages.

It was not my intention to initiate a open dialogue on the Nefarious pay system, nor will I get involved in it. Those that truly understand my logic are members within Nefarious.

I do want to point out a interesting fact that I never did mention we don't have an advantage by holding land. But how do you want to measure it's significance? I am absorbed in TW all week long while you can go off grinding or farming TT. Sure you can argue that a majority of these are 15 min, but is pre/post TW time taken into consideration? We are faced with 12+ TW's each weekend while the most any other faction face is 2.

Nonetheless, significant the gain or not, these coins were not given but rather gained and maintained by members old and new. Countless officer's and members are not from the U.S yet wake up in insane hours to partake in TW for 3 straight days each weekend. Think again before you ask how advantages this gaming style is, and really how significant this is.

Hazon - Sanctuary

By_uL - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nonetheless, significant the gain or not, these coins were not given but rather gained and maintained by members old and new. Countless officer's and members are not from the U.S yet wake up in insane hours to partake in TW for 3 straight days each weekend. Think again before you ask how advantages this gaming style is, and really how significant this is.

hmm...I always believe that most Nef members are not from US cos u guys always attack at 1400h guess I'm right..lol Probably sunday might have problem too cos to some members sunday means monday at their location and need to work too... guess sunday is the best time to bid for tw with u guys b:chuckle

Swaze - Sanctuary

Hazon - Sanctuary wrote: »

hmm...I always believe that most Nef members are not from US cos u guys always attack at 1400h guess I'm right..lol Probably sunday might have problem too cos to some members sunday means monday at their location and need to work too... guess sunday is the best time to bid for tw with u guys b:chuckle

Times are not determined by players. There is a set system and your time slot is dependant on map location and other factions' participations

Hazon - Sanctuary

geez, thanks for the "enlightenment" but I'm just kidding... b:laugh

Minimus - Sanctuary

By_uL - Sanctuary wrote: »

I do want to point out a interesting fact that I never did mention we don't have an advantage by holding land. But how do you want to measure it's significance? I am absorbed in TW all week long while you can go off grinding or farming TT. Sure you can argue that a majority of these are 15 min, but is pre/post TW time taken into consideration? We are faced with 12+ TW's each weekend while the most any other faction face is 2.

Nonetheless, significant the gain or not, these coins were not given but rather gained and maintained by members old and new. Countless officer's and members are not from the U.S yet wake up in insane hours to partake in TW for 3 straight days each weekend. Think again before you ask how advantages this gaming style is, and really how significant this is.

You may not be able to measure significance as such but I wouldn't deny a correlation between the advantage of land holding and it's significance to keep other factions from gaining land despite a comparably similar effort of the other factions (nobody's individual effort questioned!).
I "think again" and have another result than you. Big land holding factions are favoured what doesn't mean that the rewards (coins w/e) aren't the result of hard work or not gained. - I don't refer to a certain faction at this place but am curious to see what happens on LC (with the new formed factions) or RT.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary

By_uL - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am absorbed in TW all week long while you can go off grinding or farming TT.for ur information TW u get is only for 3 days not a whole week Sure you can argue that a majority of these are 15 min, but is pre/post TW time taken into consideration? We are faced with 12+ TW's each weekend while the most any other faction face is 2. if this is an excuse its lame, you hold 40 lands or so ? what you expect just 1 TW ? lols am pretty suprised you dont have bids on all of ur lands.

Nonetheless, significant the gain or not, these coins were not given but rather gained and maintained by members old and new. Countless officer's and members are not from the U.S yet wake up in insane hours to partake in TW for 3 straight days each weekend. Think again before you ask how advantages this gaming style is, and really how significant this is.TW at odd times feels like a burdain, when the main objective of majority of the memebers is to just earn money, hardly a handful do TW cause they like to do it

thats all i can say for now, though i dont really deny strife that its impossible for the faction to start a system for refinesment, atleast one person a week ?

TheDan - Sanctuary

For an impartial player deciding upon an end-game faction, they're more likely to seek a faction that has more benefits; a direct correlation to a credibility factor involved in the decision making process I presume...

More benefits equates more influence in recruitment? Maybe. xP

I'm too lazy right now, 8/ will post reports when I stop getting hammered at school. *Feeling heavily inebriated* b:tired

Evga - Sanctuary

i love tw because of tw b:chuckle and so far nef has been the only one that can offer me 3 hours of slaughtering people each week :P not to mention get slaughtered in return b:surrender

Swaze - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

For an impartial player deciding upon an end-game faction, they're more likely to seek a faction that has more benefits; a direct correlation to a credibility factor involved in the decision making process I presume...

More benefits equates more influence in recruitment? Maybe. xP

I'm too lazy right now, 8/ will post reports when I stop getting hammered at school. *Feeling heavily inebriated* b:tired

UNDERAGE DRINKING IN COLLEGE??

I've never heard such insanity

Accel - Raging Tide

Swaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

UNDERAGE DRINKING IN COLLEGE??

I've never heard such insanity

He's definitely getting hammered by .. b:chuckle

By_uL - Sanctuary

Minimus - Sanctuary wrote: »

You may not be able to measure significance as such but I wouldn't deny a correlation between the advantage of land holding and it's significance to keep other factions from gaining land despite a comparably similar effort of the other factions (nobody's individual effort questioned!).
I "think again" and have another result than you. Big land holding factions are favoured what doesn't mean that the rewards (coins w/e) aren't the result of hard work or not gained. - I don't refer to a certain faction at this place but am curious to see what happens on LC (with the new formed factions) or RT.

The original question at hand was whether we held a "significant" advantage given the land we owned and coins we receive. I refuted this by indicating other factions to have opportunities, although not similar in nature, of making up a relatively similar gain with their time away from TW. If our views are different then so be it, I still would like to delta together though *Unblinkingly stares at your inhumane HP*. I do not and never have doubted other peoples effort, especially from a faction as persistent and determined as yours b:surrender.

In reference to herne.. Merely read my whole comment before dissecting a particular sentence . I did fix my error to mention 3 days and twisting what I stated as a fact into what you consider is an excuse is b:shutup.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary

good to see that u pay attention to what i say ..

Strife_son - Sanctuary

Thing is By_uL, nef does have a significant advantage. There is no point in refuting it. With the exception of Enelysion, no other faction has more than one land. Yeah, Nef has to fight a lot of TW's to maintain this; but how many of those tw's are actually difficult? How many of those even require a full 80 people, let alone 80 charmed people? Maybe three other defenses do, but most of the factions that attack Nef are probably not even considered a minor threat to Nef, and some of your defenses are alt factions used to throw off bidding. Your defense of Regi will be the toughest thing for Nef this week.

All the other TW's you won't accrue anyway near as much charm cost as you do fighting Regi, and as sinangel so glibly said earlier, most of your tw costs are taken care of via the money your faction receives in bids.

So yeah, denying the advantage your faction has as far as "the economics of it all" goes is kinda refuting the facts.

Tannzie - Sanctuary

hiya all, hope ya'll been fine. Well its sad to see that still certain people from my guild are posting stupid stuff and lame excuses, well here is to what i think about strife and herne and evga and By_uL discussions

total nef income from lands = 141m

if i take it that nef gets like 12 attacks a week @ 500k each bid, if all won then nef gets 90% of the money = 5.4m

correct me if am wrong

so the total comes to an approximation of 146m

the highest paid people in nef are 4 barbs who focus on main TW's like regicide which is 10m a week, where as the lowest is 2.5m and the max a person, other than barb gets = 7m ? i might be wrong. Taking the average sign up and show up for TW as erm 120 and taking out the 4 main barbs it would be 116 people to be paid, so if i take it that the average amount for those 116 people is 5m then the total is 58m + 40 m = 98m, another 15m for towers for all TW which is 113m ? so the left over is 146m-113m = 33m.

whats the utilization of this money? No1 dares asks. And as for refinement there are facilities for those, but there are a few more facts to be looked into there, the criteria to be eligible is filled with a lot of ****, over the phases that nef went through, i learn this that if your influential with the present leader of nef then you wont have any probs with anything, but if not then sorry to say, your fckd up. Specially with the present leadership around. You are.

Tannzie - Sanctuary

as to what strife says about how tough the TW's are,

well gimme 30 proper ppl and i take down enelysion in 15 mins. Proper i mean not the best but decent level and proper knowledge of there char and TW.

Like the type of people we used to have before the oracles started.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary

Tannzie - Sanctuary wrote: »

well gimme 30 proper ppl and i take down enelysion in 15 mins.

*Give me my Trusted Sword and i shall run it through thy enemies heart, piercing its soul*

Accel - Raging Tide

Tannzie - Sanctuary wrote: »

as to what strife says about how tough the TW's are,

well gimme 30 proper ppl and i take down enelysion in 15 mins. Proper i mean not the best but decent level and proper knowledge of there char and TW.

Like the type of people we used to have before the oracles started.

Tbh, I wouldn't underestimate Enelysion like that Tannzie b:cute.

TheDan - Sanctuary

It depends on what your perception of what "significant" is. You all have valid points.

Although 400M doesn't seem like much split between 200 people in any one given week, but that's 400M more than every other faction on the server. It is significant in comparison to others.

Maybe your conception of "benefits" is only the coin, but I'm sure we all know the lands aren't only about the coins.. there's apothecary and refinement that comes with it (benefits).

But to be fair, a non-land owning faction that also goes through 2-3 hour battles is suffering losses financially, instead of at least breaking even. Not to mention that Nef can produce Ironguards / Sutra orbs at a relatively low cost, where others must pay 100K per.

Every time we attack / defend Nef for 3 hours, we go in the hole 200M. Maybe Nef only profits 200M of the 400M they get per week, but that's still significantly better than a loss of 200M per week.

Maybe it is correct that Nef doesn't "significantly gain" from the lands when you're comparing only to yourselves in relative terms.. but when you compare that value to non-land holding factions, you don't "significantly lose" funds... which is an overall benefit.

By_uL - Sanctuary

Strife_son - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thing is By_uL, nef does have a significant advantage. There is no point in refuting it. With the exception of Enelysion, no other faction has more than one land. Yeah, Nef has to fight a lot of TW's to maintain this; but how many of those tw's are actually difficult? How many of those even require a full 80 people, let alone 80 charmed people? Maybe three other defenses do, but most of the factions that attack Nef are probably not even considered a minor threat to Nef, and some of your defenses are alt factions used to throw off bidding. Your defense of Regi will be the toughest thing for Nef this week.

All the other TW's you won't accrue anyway near as much charm cost as you do fighting Regi, and as sinangel so glibly said earlier, most of your tw costs are taken care of via the money your faction receives in bids.

So yeah, denying the advantage your faction has as far as "the economics of it all" goes is kinda refuting the facts.

Strife, you missed my entire point regarding the reasoning. Nonetheless, let's stop the topic here. If your saying my couple of mil is going to make a huge difference then so be it.

Gonna be a fun TW Weekend! See you in the battlefield Sar Sar b:dirty

@Tannzie - It's sad that no one is able to IP trace who you are. My curiosity to know who you are is almost as high as wanting to know who leaks the IronGuard. I hope what your doing doesn't reflect your RL ethics though b:surrender. Happy gaming

Tannzie - Sanctuary

thank you dan for that point i did forget about land refinement, which lowers the cost of refinement a lot, as to what Mei said, dude not to understimate Ene, but as i said, i get a few proper people who know there job, its not a biggie

SarahC - Sanctuary

Tannzie - Sanctuary wrote: »

well gimme 30 proper ppl and i take down enelysion in 15 mins. Proper i mean not the best but decent level and proper knowledge of there char and TW.

Hai der, I can't wait for our battle against 31 nef's b:dirty please make sure its 31 no more no less b:sad weeeeeeee

By_uL - Sanctuary

TheDan - Sanctuary wrote: »

It depends on what your perception of what "significant" is. You all have valid points.

Although 400M doesn't seem like much split between 200 people in any one given week, but that's 400M more than every other faction on the server. It is significant in comparison to others.

Maybe your conception of "benefits" is only the coin, but I'm sure we all know the lands aren't only about the coins.. there's apothecary and refinement that comes with it (benefits).

But to be fair, a non-land owning faction that also goes through 2-3 hour battles is suffering losses financially, instead of at least breaking even. Not to mention that Nef can produce Ironguards / Sutra orbs at a relatively low cost, where others must pay 100K per.

Every time we attack / defend Nef for 3 hours, we go in the hole 200M. Maybe Nef only profits 200M of the 400M they get per week, but that's still significantly better than a loss of 200M per week.

Maybe it is correct that Nef doesn't "significantly gain" from the lands when you're comparing only to yourselves in relative terms.. but when you compare that value to non-land holding factions, you don't "significantly lose" funds... which is an overall benefit.

I do not refute this point one bit and and have even stated this various times that we hold an advantage. However, the extent to which many of you believe this benefit to be I think is overly measured. Like I said, we have the luxury of TW to compensate for our gains, you have the luxury of time, although not similar in nature, can result in the ultimate end of minimal difference.

Yes, you can break down the figures at a high level end. But analyze between a player by player comparison and the numbers will be more visible to understand and a lot smaller.

To the point of refining. This is a double edge sword, if this method was truly as great as it was made to be, than Nefarious shouldn't have so many under geared members.

TheDan - Sanctuary

By_uL - Sanctuary wrote: »

I do not refute this point one bit and and have even stated this various times that we hold an advantage. However, the extent to which many of you believe this benefit to be I think is overly measured. Like I said, we have the luxury of TW to compensate for our gains, you have the luxury of time, although not similar in nature, can result in the ultimate end of minimal difference.

Yes, you can break down the figures at a high level end. But analyze between a player by player comparison and the numbers will be more visible to understand.

Yes, I'm not complaining or anything =P We still gonna gang bang ya every week, win or lose. b:chuckle