khai1987Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited December 2014
Actually u will not getting any point or any rewards when u doing nothing at the instance. Most of my lag instance ive got the lowest point, so not getting any reward.
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trouncedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited December 2014
Zerg = Uncoordinated, Skill less and Impatient players who don't have the communication skills to form and command everyone else inside the instance.
Most players now understand the concept of arranging themselves into parties as soon as they enter Tiamat.
If you want the encounter to succeed then take charge once inside in a polite and friendly manner and start your own party and then check that everyone else has started their own parties.
Tiamat should be a hard encounter and you shouldn't be guaranteed a success every time you enter.
Success of the encounter is a privilege and not a right.
Zerg = Uncoordinated, Skill less and Impatient players who don't have the communication skills to form and command everyone else inside the instance.
Most players now understand the concept of arranging themselves into parties as soon as they enter Tiamat.
If you want the encounter to succeed then take charge once inside in a polite and friendly manner and start your own party and then check that everyone else has started their own parties.
Tiamat should be a hard encounter and you shouldn't be guaranteed a success every time you enter.
Success of the encounter is a privilege and not a right.
and this is absolutely right. But the really trouble is that there are A LOT of player with low gs and zerg for now, is the solution for that istance...Obliviusly if the gs for tiamat will be higher in some future (and i want this, really) i will not accept too zerg mode. Coordination is the key for the tiamat fight but if your teammates aren't good (and now you can't choice it) you can coordinate but you can't do a lot.
And sorry for the bad english
| Yolt - TR MI Executioner |
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Zerging is a troll tactic that never works. You either wipe out 3 heads in the first round which means you have the gearscores that would have won it regardless of how you ran the raid or you don't have the gearscores and it's a disaster. What's the tiebreakers between zerging and running legit? You can't kill 5 heads in 120 seconds. That's 25 seconds per head and it takes 10 seconds to run between them. One poison cloud and you're shut down. So people say magically split up into two perfectly even groups at the end. That never happens. Plus, logically you should start as 2 groups in the first round to mathematically reduce total transit time. But NOBODY EVER DOES THAT! Plus low GSes are the only reason people fail other than non-english speakers who do whatever they want.
before "zerg" strat
11 attempts, 2 wins.
couple times it was close, very close, but usually we're stuck on the 2nd cleric phase when time runs out, getting no heads below 50% even...
after "zerg" 3 attempts 3 wins.
usually with 5+ minutes left.
guess which strat I will use 100%? :rolleyes:
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
There's definitely an issue with defense...it's as if it's zeroed out for everyone, at least when it comes to adds. Is there armor penetration really THAT high? > 42%? Seriously, is that really working as intended? To me it seems grossly unfair.
Maybe it's to encourage use of tanks?
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fedurMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 27Arc User
edited December 2014
Change Tiamat Hoard Reclamation. Nerf requrements for tiers. No way to get 2nd or highier tier.
scoutmasterjMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 101Arc User
edited December 2014
I have a question about the regeneration of the Tiamat heads. From my experience, they regenerate no matter if they are dead or left with 10-20% left. I can't tell if it would be better just to kill them whenever you get the chance, since the next round they would start lower than if you left them with 10% (since they regenerate either way).
What is your experience?
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
First time I played we WON!!! It was a balanced attack on all 5 heads simultaneously knocking each down about 25% each of the 4 phases. The protection from the gems was rotated among the players. Between times you stayed defending your cleric unless they were growing much faster then 1 or 2 moved to the one that was moving slower so the time between Dragon attacks was cut to a minimum.
There are those who have the OPINION to start from the LEFT. There are those who have the OPINION to start from the RIGHT. There are those who have the OPINION to start at bothe ends and work toward the MIDDLE. So far, the only winning strategy has been to attack all 5 heads simultaneously. That is FACT.
Anyway, did anybody find a proper heads rotation? I mean, what's better order? I find white head too weak and more "DPS" friendly while Blue heads desolates everything and should be dealt with first as it requires too much time to take down?
5%? You're exaggerating, it's like 30-40% of the geared player database.
I am a 37k HP warlock, I don't get oneshot by regular add?
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
1. I agree
2. I agree
3. I disagree. First time I played (and won) the heads went down about 25% each, each of the 4 phases.
The fight does not need to be nerfed at all. It is not difficult. The only difficulty is that you have to pug it. You cant get people to get off the head that is almost dead even though there is another head that is at 90%. Forcing people to join with others that are purposely doing things that causes the group to lose is not fun or the right kind of challenging.
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scoutmasterjMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 101Arc User
edited December 2014
My last three attempts were with the ZERG strategy, won each time. My first 11 attempts, where with the 5 groups strategy, won 4 times. Both are winning strategies. I'm not sure how you came up with your "FACT"
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
You must have got a good one. mine was 20 sec on and 2 min+ off.
I tried and failed 3 time. There were 0 lag, which was perfect, but 10-15 brainless idiots each time . I can usually compensate for 1-2 lamers in party, but it this case it would be impossible.
As far as I can see it, the only feasible way to do it is with pre-made party of people with at least some brain.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
In the entrance room where you are placed for the planning phase, create 5 circles spread apart from one another on the floor. Each circle would have a color corresponding to the heads (white,black,red,green,blue).
Have some text instruction in the form of a quest window explaining the importance of 5 members to a circle and encourage those 5 in the circle to party up once inside their color circle. Then explain the importance of debuffing one another with the soul gem that drops from the summoners for their color party and the importance of 5 members to a head to bring them all down evenly.
Some tips in text window form would be very helpful too. Like if one summoner's blue lifeline is empty and the others are almost full, you may want to switch to the empty one.
The reason for the text window instructions is so all could see the tips in their own language.
I know their would still be issues even if this was implemented with one circle being full of 5 10k to 11k gs and another with all 20k, but at this point it would still be a huge step to make this fight more pug friendly since you can only pug this.
This is a cool fight, but if you can't group as a 25 man with a leader handing out directions I can't see this fight being something folks are going to want to do for very much longer.
This fight could work as intended for pugs, but only if some kind of instruction is given via the game in the planning phase.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
In reading the first few pages there are 3 schools on gearscore: 1) Originally 10k was the standard. 2) Up it to 15-17k - it's legendary. 3)No, no, no, don't put it so high I want to win all the time so only raiose it to 13-14k. Epic Tuern is easier than Tiamat and is GS 13k.
I agree to everyone. Some of us have worked super hard to get to 15-18k GS and in a case like this. The tiamat encounter needs to be a high gear score encounter. There's guildmembers in my guild who are 14k who have do lots of Dps and i'd like them in the encounter but when it comes down to pugging it with 10k Gear score players it become's very annoying because they are under geared not prepared, they are still learning how to effectively use their class in a group, ect.....
It needs a gear score requirement.
It needs a local zone chat.
It needs ingame instructions.
It needs a better queue system where it allows you to group up with your guild/friends.
I think i would of rather waited 5 more days for these to be implemented.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
Make two versions of Tiamat similar to the normal and epic versions of LoL and SoT.
The normal version should have no gs requirement but easier and either doesn't or has lower chance to drop the best loot. Dragon Cult Packs, dragon gems, dragon bones, dragon eggs as well as T1 or once in a blue moon T2 gear are fine. This normal version can also serve as the practice mode for the epic version.
The epic version requires 15k gs and drop everything as planned, but don't make it as hard as 17-18k gs is actually needed to complete it or else there won't be too many teams.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
It's not 5, it's 11 (5 plus 6 for your off hand) Linu's favors. Plus 20k AD, 3 Sigils and 5 Gold times 11. Unless you get your off hand before the 5 cycles is up.
The only problem is, it cost you 5 linu's favors for that 5/5 tasks. Which you need to make 37.5 empire treasures to make up for that 5 favors lost. I'd imagine that's also a 20hr task (also costing you mats). So it'll take you a month to get to where you want to be. Totally not worth it
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
This is plain pathetic, I am a Protector GF who already have ended 1th rank in Tiamat runs for 3 times now.
This is why Devs need to adjust the GS requirement to avoid blue geared (r3 Enchanted) player to jump on the wagon to get a change on easy Loot.
Addabon523 have also pointed out a good thing for Dev's to look intoo..
grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
Maybe we need a new 5th level of rewards - the Lead (dead weight) level which receives a munanimous 1 Dragon Hoard coin. and they can't leave and cause other mischief. Used to have the same problem in PvP.
Another situation for the developers to be aware of.
More and more I'm seeing people sitting at the campfire doing nothing. At the beginning everyone was trying. Now I'm seeing more people who just queue then do nothing. They're just queueing for bottom tier rewards and, on the off chance that the Tiamat is beaten without their help, they reap even better rewards. It's making it near-impossible to finish Tiamat. I was just in an instance where we could only form three teams and two teams had to take out both their head and another one because there were so many non-responsive, AFK, possibly bot players. Needless to say, it did not go well even with attempts to compensate for it.
People who don't meet a minimum participation requirement need to receive 0 rewards. Cut off the benefits for doing nothing and people won't do it. Their non-participation is hamstringing everyone else.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
One thing I'd like to suggest is an informal standard for staggering when we use our dragon gems. We came up with the white-black-green-blue-red standard (albeit out of necessity), so something like this should be possible.
Here's a simple example: class-based gem usage
1. Fighter types use theirs first, all others hold their gems. (GF/GWF)
2. Mixed melee types use theirs next (TR/HR)
3. Casters go last (DC/CW/SW)
This is just an example, but I suggest basing it on classes because it's simple and transcends language barriers. Thoughts?
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
1) Blind ranting with no constructive substance. Please review our guidelines on constructive feedback, which can be found here. Insults to the devs, staff, and other players are not tolerated and will be moderated without further notice, and may result in sanctions against your posting privilege.
2) PUG bashing. Not everyone is a perfectly crafted, elite, 20k GS+ playing machine. We were all newbies at one point. Respect those attempting to follow the climb to the top in the best way they know how and be ready to lend a helping hand, not an accusatory finger.
3) Rants based on ethnicity or a language barrier. These are never permitted under the Rules of Conduct. This is an international game. Do expect to have to play with people of differing languages or nationalities and conduct yourself accordingly and with respect for your fellow player.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
The one idea no one else said was that there should be THREE choices: 1) Normal, 10k GS entry standard rewards + R4 Draconic. 2) Epic (uses normal map and Dragons) 15k GS entry, Better Rewards + R5 Draconic, Normal chest Rewards + R5 Draconic with lockout for dying. 3) LEGENDARY, 19K GS entry, Double chance at better rewards than Epic + R6 Draconic, Better rewards from Chest+ R6 Draconic, Better Rewards for losing, Heads 3-5 times the hp, Lockout for dying, Limited to 3 set times a day (suggest starting 8 hours apart). Party of 5 - no GS Requirement for any.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited December 2014
you need 6 Linu's favor for the off hand and the 5 for defeating Tiamat count as none, zip, Nada, Zero towards that 6. That means you can accumulate 6 favors for your off hand and THEN another 5 for defeating Tiamat. To get both you need 11 total. It takes 6 Linu's favor that are not used for the 5 Defeating Tiamat (or used for any other) tasks to purchase the off hand.
Wait... am I understanding this right? The off-hand artifact can be gained through the 5 final tasks via ToD, instead of purchasing it?
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited December 2014
Closing this up to ensure the new thread is read and used, as well as to ensure the progression of feedback and discussions. Please feel free to continue the constructive discussions and provide feedback in the following thread. Thanks!
Comments
Most players now understand the concept of arranging themselves into parties as soon as they enter Tiamat.
If you want the encounter to succeed then take charge once inside in a polite and friendly manner and start your own party and then check that everyone else has started their own parties.
Tiamat should be a hard encounter and you shouldn't be guaranteed a success every time you enter.
Success of the encounter is a privilege and not a right.
and this is absolutely right. But the really trouble is that there are A LOT of player with low gs and zerg for now, is the solution for that istance...Obliviusly if the gs for tiamat will be higher in some future (and i want this, really) i will not accept too zerg mode. Coordination is the key for the tiamat fight but if your teammates aren't good (and now you can't choice it) you can coordinate but you can't do a lot.
And sorry for the bad english
< Guild: Gravity X Game >
and
just what is an instance in this context?
before "zerg" strat
11 attempts, 2 wins.
couple times it was close, very close, but usually we're stuck on the 2nd cleric phase when time runs out, getting no heads below 50% even...
after "zerg"
3 attempts 3 wins.
usually with 5+ minutes left.
guess which strat I will use 100%? :rolleyes:
Maybe it's to encourage use of tanks?
What is your experience?
There are those who have the OPINION to start from the LEFT. There are those who have the OPINION to start from the RIGHT. There are those who have the OPINION to start at bothe ends and work toward the MIDDLE. So far, the only winning strategy has been to attack all 5 heads simultaneously. That is FACT.
2. I agree
3. I disagree. First time I played (and won) the heads went down about 25% each, each of the 4 phases.
The Battle with Tiamat - Moving Forward
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
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