I really don't want a 15k GS min. I like to play with friends...
Everybody wants to play with friends but that is not a good reason to trasnform a 25 epic raid into a mess. I have 2 toons over 15k and 2 under it.
I have observed a 12k GS is easily obtained, but 13k GS requires some boons, AD or GS chasing.
I would support 12k, but not 13k.
10k seems a little low. That is down in "I haven't bothered to use rank 5s and I wear blues" land. I don't know that exactly, but in my experience 10k is pretty much: just got this character to 60 bro. Sup!
Mate, do u realize that entering the temple you are going to fight a goddess? Do you think final bosses of Castle Malabog or Validra's Tower or Castle Never are on the same level? I don't think so. Improve your character and THEN, only then, fight aganist a god!
Mate, do u realize that entering the temple you are going to fight a goddess? Do you think final bosses of Castle Malabog or Validra's Tower or Castle Never are on the same level? I don't think so. Improve your character and THEN, only then, fight aganist a god!
That just turns GS into a gate whereas it is not necessary. I went 3 of 4 on saturday so it is not like I feel like the raid is unwinnable. Right now if everyone had 15k GS and tried the current raid would be darn near trivial. Part of the reason it feels like you need 15k is the fact that you have to carry people less than 15k. You take away the carry and you got a trivial raid.
That is before people with decent gear scores can pre-group. After pre-grouping and bringing uber friends carrying a raid will get a lot more trivial, and the only thing actually making the raid feel hard will be the fact that some people are under 15k.
Someone pointed out I checked and saw X people with 10k GS. On my 3 of 4 saturday night I checked and saw a lot of people with 20k GS. If everyone had exactly 15k GS then maybe it would be "moderately difficult", but in reality you inspect around and you will see people with uber GS and they are counter balancing the 10k.
As for the roleplaying argument. Did you watch Middle Earth movies? I saw plenty of peons fighting with Gandalf and the fellowship. The 10k represent the soldiers ~
For me, entry requirements are fine and the lack of pre-mades is also fine.
I have yet to win that fight. At first, it was due to a completely shambolic mob who had no idea what to do. As the weekend progressed we started to see a bit more coordination. You'll never get a fully organised fight but its surprising what you can achieve with just a handful of clued-up people. By the end of yesterday I'd had a couple of very close failures, one due to the bug where the dragons just did not spawn after a cleric "round" and the other because the frame rate dropped to unusable, not so much "frames per second" as "seconds per frame".
So I'm loving it. Devs, fix the bugs if you can but don't go changing anything else. The randomness of pugs is a perfect antidote to the dourness of pre-made elite groups. And it's not like we *need* to win that one every time.
Someone pointed out I checked and saw X people with 10k GS. On my 3 of 4 saturday night I checked and saw a lot of people with 20k GS. If everyone had exactly 15k GS then maybe it would be "moderately difficult", but in reality you inspect around and you will see people with uber GS and they are counter balancing the 10k.
Well, so, let ppl with 10gsK play this alone and let'see how all this finish. The fact that there are some 20k+ GS on group does not mean that the enconter is balanced. Means only that someone is usefull and someone else is not.
Btw, as I wrote before, I think that FUN BELONGS TO EVERYONE but if u project such a raid, you have to think about an EPIC project not a mess. They should create a NON-EPIC version of the enconter for <14k ppl and let them have fun killing Tiamat (as it happens for others dungeons, for istance).
As for the roleplaying argument. Did you watch Middle Earth movies? I saw plenty of peons fighting with Gandalf and the fellowship. The 10k represent the soldiers ~
Yeah, I watched all. Great movies!
Of course, peons are important but devs created the raid this way so for me 25 ppl can not represent an army but rather a GROUP OF ELITE AND CHOSEN SOLDIERS!
This may seem to be premature to say this, but have the developers thought about the long term problems that Tiamat has ? They can fix all the problems mentioned here, they can add a queuing system, have a high gs limit etc, but what will happen when all the high gs players have gotten all their linus and moved on ? If Icewind Dale or some of those dragon encounters are any indicator, Tiamat will in a few months become a ghost town, and unlike those, with Tiamat you really need to do it to get your boons, grinding the slow non Tiamat way to get those linus is just too much for most.
This is one of the mainproblems in this game. And also, who will farm linus favors to get offhand and the last two boons on more than one char? Probably nobody or a handful of extremely dedicated players.
I got my offhand and like 15 favors for the boon, and I grinded my *** off for two days now.
Would be nice if they could fix the bugs, raise GS requirements and allow premade ques.
To all the ppl QQing about a GS cap. You are not able to finish this encounter. Why do you think, that you are entiteled to other ppl doing the work for you. Your posts read like, 'others can gear up and do the work, I am the challange for you'. Guess what, I geared up, to make the game easier for ME, not to carry someone who cant be bothered to gear up. This is endcontent atm. In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?
"In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?"
Soo... there is a difference between "can't get in" and "can't carry your position". That is the fundamental problem here.
I have been a part of a serving leading raid guild in Everquest. One thing we could always do is get anyone we wanted into a raid. Sometimes there were key issues, but if you were uber you could handle keys for other people. What really bugs the heck out of me in NW is the gear score gates because even while I was a top player in Everquest, I could always do stuff with my friends.
So the answer to your question is: almost every "hardcore game". The answer you were looking for is "who lets you", but you asked "what game lets you". Different question.
In this game, I go to a friend invite your son lets do eLoL. Oh no... son's character doesn't have GS for it.
In everquest it was lets go do uber group thing 01. Does it matter if son's character has no HP? Naw that is up to us.
So there is a difference between gear score GATES and gear score RECOMMENDED.
BTW if we are considering larger topics: if you queue as 5 for eLoL there should be 0 GS requirement imo. No point. The 5 know the challenge and have accepted it. The gate is unnecessary, but in Tiamat I get it, but in general your point isn't as valid as you think.
Name a hardcore game that checks your gear score before it lets you in to endgame content besides Neverwinter?
This is endcontent atm. In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?
Ummm - by definition any content you play after hitting max level is 'endgame'.
I have played MMOs where I could enter any endgame dungeon or raid I liked, regardless of my gear, if I could find a group willing to take me along. Heck - one or two of them would let me solo this content if I was so suicidally inclined. GS gating is not so widespread as you seem to think.
And NWO has another problem with this encounter specifically - it is tied into the progression of the overall Tyranny of Dragons campaign, which is in turn dictated by WoC. Excluding the vast majority of the playerbase from this flagship content would be problematic for them on a number of fronts.
I, personally, refuse to waste my talents on an instance that's clearly full of pugs that aren't coordinated from the get-go.
Call it being pompous; I doubt I am the only one who feels this way.
You see, that's part of the problem. I've seen instances with well coordinated groups fail and random pug groups where nobody even had a team succeed in this. Is your time so valuable that you cant at least take 20 minutes and try? Your at least going to get a minor resonance stone and some other gear at the end if you stick it out and do well enough.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited December 2014
So, how long do you think Tiamat will last? People get their offhand, and it's over. What else worth it? You can get your cloak. Farm Linu's Favors? 30+50 LF needed for boons, I surely won't do it for +3% critical severity, the amount af Linus needed for that is ridicoulus.
People will do Tiamat for 2-3 weeks. Then it's will abandonded like IWD. Go and try to do a Raid of Raiders now It's impossible.
It's absolutely not alt charachter friendly. I have 4-5 chars I play (I dont really like DC and GF now), I wont farm 500+ linus for their boons. Maybe I get the offhand and its over. Even thats stupid, because no way I can level them up without RP. 1 lesser resonance stone for completing Tiamat? It is supposed to be a joke? Change that T2 equipment to refining stones - greater or blue. That t2 drop just killed economy, as I said before.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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trouncedMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited December 2014
Its nice to see plenty of failures.
It gives you a sense of success when it is actually finished.
This game is pure easy mode so a change is welcome.
1)TOT should be an elite raid. Raise GS needed to enter it. We are facing an evil goddess, not one simple villain!
If you want to mantain the 10kGS limit and the current "random chance" of success, then skip the 3 mins briefing & organization part. People do what they want to do, not what they should. No one cares about colored pillars and few use "say" chat instead of "zone" chat. It's a mess and a waste of time. It would be the same and faster if people who enter the temple were automatically and random assigned to a color group.
2) Since I think that fun "belongs" to everyone, not only 15k+ GS players, I suggest to create a no-Epic version of Tiamat Raid for 10k-14k players (as we have for others DD). Instead of fighting the REAL evil goddess, they should fight some kind of "ASPECT or AVATAR". Same encounter and mechanics. Just a little bit easier. You know how to do it
3) The idea of getting a random buff before entering the temple is interesting but too much expensive. That amount of resources need time to be gathered and, for that reason, players don't spend it easily. Look at % value just before TOT time. After the very first raid I saw it always between 9% and 18%. Then, low resources needed for it or remove it completely.
P.S.: think about the idea of creating a "new Epic version" of the previous dungeons for players of 15k+ GS. I mean even Cloack Tower, Craigmire, etc. It would be a way to play old maps with new enthusiams and fun. Rewards? Well, it's up to you.
I like the idea of having epic versions of dungeons and raids
The most important piece of gear to have in the Tiamat fight is a soulforged enchant, which doesn't show up in your gear score.
Which would you rather have: a 13k DC who has a soulforged and has reasonable stat allocation, or a 19k glass cannon CW with some stupid "cool-looking" armor enchant instead that doesn't even work on Tiamat?
The second most important piece of gear to have in the Tiamat fight is a dragon soul gem, which again doesn't show up in your gear score.
And quite honestly the GS elitists and the PUG haters should just go pound sand. Once again: Tiamat is such a grave threat to the realm that it will require the combined efforts of all who can fight to banish her back to the Nine Hells. Please keep in mind that this game has players besides just you and your small clique of elitist friends. Even after the grouping bug is fixed, I hope that you are forced to pug every match anyway, just so you can learn eventually that not all pugs are mindless idiots.
The last five raids I participated in, I only pugged (of course) and I won 4 of them. (Would have won the 5th but for the dragon head bug.) According to the forum warriors here, that shouldn't even have been possible, because "lol pugs r stoopd". But apparently it is possible.
A lot of people are blaming their own failures to beat this fight not based on their own mistakes, but using the "10k scrubs" as scapegoats. And that's just wrong, frankly.
If you are a highly geared player entering this fight, it's your responsibility to organize teams ahead of time if no one else is doing so, and to use some strategy during the fight and to communicate with your team with what ought to be done. If you just waltz in there with your 20k GS and expect to just zerg everything and your raid fails, then it's not the fault of the "10k scrubs".
I noticed sometimes the cleric phase can glitch out and the dragons will never show, and sometimes dragons will never come up, they are burried deep down underground not possible to deal dmg to them. I would suggest some changes to the party thing. First off let players who are in a party get into the same instance. + Maybe add some party link feature so you could fill up a whole instance if you would like. Like for example "Character123 request to link party (accept)(decline)"
If you are a highly geared player entering this fight, it's your responsibility to organize teams ahead of time if no one else is doing so, and to use some strategy during the fight and to communicate with your team with what ought to be done. If you just waltz in there with your 20k GS and expect to just zerg everything and your raid fails, then it's not the fault of the "10k scrubs".
It is if you try and organize groups at the beginning of the raids and these pugs just completely ignore anything you said and just zerg whatever dragon they see fit.
Not all pugs are bad to be honest. I see some pugs linking guides, participating in arranging groups at the start. Its just that the lack of queue system puts you at the mercy of the RNG of getting good pugs and bad ones and that is not how you make a raid challenging.
That's true but the problem that pointsman points out (man) is that raising the GS of the encounter specifically excludes casual players who only pug, and that's completely unfair. For some folks, it's extremely hard to get to 17k GS, and impossible to get to 20k. Those folks could contribute to this fight just as much as anyone else. Disorganization happens in any encounter until folks figure out the strategy needed to complete it. I wouldn't be opposed to super-uber-level epic dungeons for extremely high-geared players, but there has to be something for the mid-range folks as well. Besides, this thing has been out a week and the biggest complaint has already been acknowledged by Cryptic and a fix is likely in the works. Folks are already calling for policies that would exclude elites and that's disappointing.
Hell, Legit community has already figured out good ways to get their players in the same instances and working together. Not everything is insurmountable and needs technical changes.
if there is just 1 party of ppl lower 13gs - there is not enough damage.
i ran tiamat about 20 times. only once we won (most gs >15k), once we were 99% close (most gs >15k)/ all other were fails , and
it was clear from the fist round.
of course there re many of those, who r against any gs level at 15k or so. but there re always ppl , who want everything doin nothing. why should hi gs ppl compensate ur ingame poornes and get the same prize???
It s very important to raize GS to at least 15k.
and dont believe to anyone saying that they killed tiamat with 11k gs ppl in a grp... that s bull***t.
blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited December 2014
You dont have enough dps with 10-13k. You can get 14k from a t2 set, some purple rings and campaign boons easily.
So 13-14k minimum is not that much IMO. 13k is the req for lol and sot. And there is no DargonGod there.
15 is too much, but 13-14 seems fair.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
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urlord283Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,084Arc User
Even with the lag, finally a worth while Raid that is hard and fun to do, not going to be easy. It will take team work and communication to finish it. Overall a good exp.
Now the question is when is the next tiamat??? Any info
Maybe if you guys concentrated more on the fight and less on checking GS's...you'd win more often. Seriously, all I hear and read is "most of X group had average 12k...so thats why we failed".
You are either elitist, or making grand assumptions because people get 1 shot (which can happen to anyone).
I still can't fathom though why you build a 25 man instance that requires coordination, and then provide ZERO tools to really coordinate. Missing tools include...cant join as a raid group, cant join as a party, no dedicated instanced chat channel. Even forming parties is hard due to not having a dedicated zone chat channel.
I'll just farm the Linu's through treasures and coffers, ty.
"In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?"
Soo... there is a difference between "can't get in" and "can't carry your position". That is the fundamental problem here.
I have been a part of a serving leading raid guild in Everquest. One thing we could always do is get anyone we wanted into a raid. Sometimes there were key issues, but if you were uber you could handle keys for other people. What really bugs the heck out of me in NW is the gear score gates because even while I was a top player in Everquest, I could always do stuff with my friends.
So the answer to your question is: almost every "hardcore game". The answer you were looking for is "who lets you", but you asked "what game lets you". Different question.
In this game, I go to a friend invite your son lets do eLoL. Oh no... son's character doesn't have GS for it.
In everquest it was lets go do uber group thing 01. Does it matter if son's character has no HP? Naw that is up to us.
So there is a difference between gear score GATES and gear score RECOMMENDED.
BTW if we are considering larger topics: if you queue as 5 for eLoL there should be 0 GS requirement imo. No point. The 5 know the challenge and have accepted it. The gate is unnecessary, but in Tiamat I get it, but in general your point isn't as valid as you think.
Name a hardcore game that checks your gear score before it lets you in to endgame content besides Neverwinter?
My question was 'In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?' The answer is, in not one single one. I DID NOT ASK what game allows you... as you claim.
Most games just gate endcontent with required clears or gear, no GS. You would have to have cleared X to go to Y, got gear A to survive effect B. This was common in LOTRO and WOW, at last. GS is not common in the MMOs, I played. BUT in EVERY MMO I played I was able to chose my group and was not forced to group with random ppl. I played in one of the few T 2 HM raids in LOTRO on my server. No one ever would have taken a badly geared char to endcontent. After MONTH of training and gearing up, you could take ONE or TWO friends with non essencial roles to a farmrun. You NEVER were forced to carry badly geared PuGs.
If you would be able to build groups with 25 ppl, you can take whoever you want to your raid, but as long as there are 5 groups of 5 ppl, I dont want to waste my time because someone tried to carry his 5k friends and failed.
In 15 attempts, the best I ever saw was 2/5. The raid was always defeated. Despite having ppl with seven oranges. Off-hand, weapon, belt, cloak.
So far I like it, despite it's a bit too directive. Do this, do that, come back, attack, defend. The NPCs shout, the brainless players obey.
It's nice that it's difficult, it feels like when WoW releases a new boss, and then Paragon or Method fight for a World first and when at 500th attempt they beat the boss, they post a video and afterwards any little guild knows the winning strategy. Too bad there is no elite guild to do that here.
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onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited December 2014
The biggest problem right now is the bug event. The event does not always give a reward, especially after defeating Tiamat. It seems the instances are not properly resetting so there is no new event when the Tiamat encounter starts so no one gets a reward in that instance.
Initially I was skeptic that pugs would be able to understand how the fight works and work together. However, I was surprised that on Friday, by my 3rd attempt at Tiamat, we defeated her. I have beaten her 20+ times in a row. I have stopped because it seems the instances I am in are bugged where I do not get a reward for the event, just the chest. Some people have gotten it, some have not. One way to fix it seems to be to switch to a non bugged instance after zoning in, and then defeating her.
I have noticed most of the good players that will be able to down her are usually in the first few instances that are created in the first 10 seconds. The later instances are new players that don't really know what to do or don't want to follow directions. Which is understandable as this game never promoted raid style, player camaraderie, or group strategy (except for VT boss).
For those that do not know, you want to have 2 groups for one dragon, the 5th group can rotate between the two dragons or on a new dragon. At the end of the first dragon phase, there should be 2 dragon below 25% and another dragon or two below 90% or less. At the end of the second dragon phase, 4 dragons should be at below25% and the 5th dragon at less than 50%(it doesn't really matter at this point). Last 3rd phase, all dragons die.
This is a vague description for an efficient way to kill tiamat. Right now, most believe it should be 5 people per head, which is bad. The reason is, say one person in each group is a debuffer/buffer. The debuff would benefit 4 people in the current strategy. However in the strategy I mention, 9 people would benefit from debuff/buff. This is why open world HE dragons die so fast. Once a couple of debuffers are in the mix, everyone does a lot of damage.
If they implement party grouping/guild grouping. This encounter will be very easy. Most of the time should be able to kill on the 2nd dragon phase.
Maybe if you guys concentrated more on the fight and less on checking GS's...you'd win more often. Seriously, all I hear and read is "most of X group had average 12k...so thats why we failed".
You are either elitist, or making grand assumptions because people get 1 shot (which can happen to anyone).
I still can't fathom though why you build a 25 man instance that requires coordination, and then provide ZERO tools to really coordinate. Missing tools include...cant join as a raid group, cant join as a party, no dedicated instanced chat channel. Even forming parties is hard due to not having a dedicated zone chat channel.
I'll just farm the Linu's through treasures and coffers, ty.
The developers already acknowledged that they screwed up with the queue system for this event so I'd expect that to be fixed. Also, every instance has a dedicated channel; it's called "Say". However, zone chat is one of the reasons this event is harder than it needs to be. If you have zone chat on, you're getting all the comments from everyone in every Tiamat instance, not just the ones in your instance. That's why folks turned to using "Say" instead. Some folks probably don't realize that and it leads to miscommunication.
I kind of like that this event practically requires leadership by one or a few people to get the groups organized.
Comments
Everybody wants to play with friends but that is not a good reason to trasnform a 25 epic raid into a mess. I have 2 toons over 15k and 2 under it.
Mate, do u realize that entering the temple you are going to fight a goddess? Do you think final bosses of Castle Malabog or Validra's Tower or Castle Never are on the same level? I don't think so. Improve your character and THEN, only then, fight aganist a god!
That just turns GS into a gate whereas it is not necessary. I went 3 of 4 on saturday so it is not like I feel like the raid is unwinnable. Right now if everyone had 15k GS and tried the current raid would be darn near trivial. Part of the reason it feels like you need 15k is the fact that you have to carry people less than 15k. You take away the carry and you got a trivial raid.
That is before people with decent gear scores can pre-group. After pre-grouping and bringing uber friends carrying a raid will get a lot more trivial, and the only thing actually making the raid feel hard will be the fact that some people are under 15k.
Someone pointed out I checked and saw X people with 10k GS. On my 3 of 4 saturday night I checked and saw a lot of people with 20k GS. If everyone had exactly 15k GS then maybe it would be "moderately difficult", but in reality you inspect around and you will see people with uber GS and they are counter balancing the 10k.
As for the roleplaying argument. Did you watch Middle Earth movies? I saw plenty of peons fighting with Gandalf and the fellowship. The 10k represent the soldiers
I have yet to win that fight. At first, it was due to a completely shambolic mob who had no idea what to do. As the weekend progressed we started to see a bit more coordination. You'll never get a fully organised fight but its surprising what you can achieve with just a handful of clued-up people. By the end of yesterday I'd had a couple of very close failures, one due to the bug where the dragons just did not spawn after a cleric "round" and the other because the frame rate dropped to unusable, not so much "frames per second" as "seconds per frame".
So I'm loving it. Devs, fix the bugs if you can but don't go changing anything else. The randomness of pugs is a perfect antidote to the dourness of pre-made elite groups. And it's not like we *need* to win that one every time.
Well, so, let ppl with 10gsK play this alone and let'see how all this finish. The fact that there are some 20k+ GS on group does not mean that the enconter is balanced. Means only that someone is usefull and someone else is not.
Btw, as I wrote before, I think that FUN BELONGS TO EVERYONE but if u project such a raid, you have to think about an EPIC project not a mess. They should create a NON-EPIC version of the enconter for <14k ppl and let them have fun killing Tiamat (as it happens for others dungeons, for istance).
Yeah, I watched all. Great movies!
Of course, peons are important but devs created the raid this way so for me 25 ppl can not represent an army but rather a GROUP OF ELITE AND CHOSEN SOLDIERS!
This is one of the mainproblems in this game. And also, who will farm linus favors to get offhand and the last two boons on more than one char? Probably nobody or a handful of extremely dedicated players.
I got my offhand and like 15 favors for the boon, and I grinded my *** off for two days now.
To all the ppl QQing about a GS cap. You are not able to finish this encounter. Why do you think, that you are entiteled to other ppl doing the work for you. Your posts read like, 'others can gear up and do the work, I am the challange for you'. Guess what, I geared up, to make the game easier for ME, not to carry someone who cant be bothered to gear up. This is endcontent atm. In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?
Soo... there is a difference between "can't get in" and "can't carry your position". That is the fundamental problem here.
I have been a part of a serving leading raid guild in Everquest. One thing we could always do is get anyone we wanted into a raid. Sometimes there were key issues, but if you were uber you could handle keys for other people. What really bugs the heck out of me in NW is the gear score gates because even while I was a top player in Everquest, I could always do stuff with my friends.
So the answer to your question is: almost every "hardcore game". The answer you were looking for is "who lets you", but you asked "what game lets you". Different question.
In this game, I go to a friend invite your son lets do eLoL. Oh no... son's character doesn't have GS for it.
In everquest it was lets go do uber group thing 01. Does it matter if son's character has no HP? Naw that is up to us.
So there is a difference between gear score GATES and gear score RECOMMENDED.
BTW if we are considering larger topics: if you queue as 5 for eLoL there should be 0 GS requirement imo. No point. The 5 know the challenge and have accepted it. The gate is unnecessary, but in Tiamat I get it, but in general your point isn't as valid as you think.
Name a hardcore game that checks your gear score before it lets you in to endgame content besides Neverwinter?
I have played MMOs where I could enter any endgame dungeon or raid I liked, regardless of my gear, if I could find a group willing to take me along. Heck - one or two of them would let me solo this content if I was so suicidally inclined. GS gating is not so widespread as you seem to think.
And NWO has another problem with this encounter specifically - it is tied into the progression of the overall Tyranny of Dragons campaign, which is in turn dictated by WoC. Excluding the vast majority of the playerbase from this flagship content would be problematic for them on a number of fronts.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Are all low gs players gone or what?
I want my linu favor now!
Taylor DC/DO & AC Buff/Debuff - Guild Gutbusters Brigade - PVE
You see, that's part of the problem. I've seen instances with well coordinated groups fail and random pug groups where nobody even had a team succeed in this. Is your time so valuable that you cant at least take 20 minutes and try? Your at least going to get a minor resonance stone and some other gear at the end if you stick it out and do well enough.
People will do Tiamat for 2-3 weeks. Then it's will abandonded like IWD. Go and try to do a Raid of Raiders now It's impossible.
It's absolutely not alt charachter friendly. I have 4-5 chars I play (I dont really like DC and GF now), I wont farm 500+ linus for their boons. Maybe I get the offhand and its over. Even thats stupid, because no way I can level them up without RP. 1 lesser resonance stone for completing Tiamat? It is supposed to be a joke? Change that T2 equipment to refining stones - greater or blue. That t2 drop just killed economy, as I said before.
It gives you a sense of success when it is actually finished.
This game is pure easy mode so a change is welcome.
make a queue system like in GG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like the idea of having epic versions of dungeons and raids
Which would you rather have: a 13k DC who has a soulforged and has reasonable stat allocation, or a 19k glass cannon CW with some stupid "cool-looking" armor enchant instead that doesn't even work on Tiamat?
The second most important piece of gear to have in the Tiamat fight is a dragon soul gem, which again doesn't show up in your gear score.
And quite honestly the GS elitists and the PUG haters should just go pound sand. Once again: Tiamat is such a grave threat to the realm that it will require the combined efforts of all who can fight to banish her back to the Nine Hells. Please keep in mind that this game has players besides just you and your small clique of elitist friends. Even after the grouping bug is fixed, I hope that you are forced to pug every match anyway, just so you can learn eventually that not all pugs are mindless idiots.
The last five raids I participated in, I only pugged (of course) and I won 4 of them. (Would have won the 5th but for the dragon head bug.) According to the forum warriors here, that shouldn't even have been possible, because "lol pugs r stoopd". But apparently it is possible.
A lot of people are blaming their own failures to beat this fight not based on their own mistakes, but using the "10k scrubs" as scapegoats. And that's just wrong, frankly.
If you are a highly geared player entering this fight, it's your responsibility to organize teams ahead of time if no one else is doing so, and to use some strategy during the fight and to communicate with your team with what ought to be done. If you just waltz in there with your 20k GS and expect to just zerg everything and your raid fails, then it's not the fault of the "10k scrubs".
It is if you try and organize groups at the beginning of the raids and these pugs just completely ignore anything you said and just zerg whatever dragon they see fit.
Not all pugs are bad to be honest. I see some pugs linking guides, participating in arranging groups at the start. Its just that the lack of queue system puts you at the mercy of the RNG of getting good pugs and bad ones and that is not how you make a raid challenging.
Hell, Legit community has already figured out good ways to get their players in the same instances and working together. Not everything is insurmountable and needs technical changes.
i ran tiamat about 20 times. only once we won (most gs >15k), once we were 99% close (most gs >15k)/ all other were fails , and
it was clear from the fist round.
of course there re many of those, who r against any gs level at 15k or so. but there re always ppl , who want everything doin nothing. why should hi gs ppl compensate ur ingame poornes and get the same prize???
It s very important to raize GS to at least 15k.
and dont believe to anyone saying that they killed tiamat with 11k gs ppl in a grp... that s bull***t.
So 13-14k minimum is not that much IMO. 13k is the req for lol and sot. And there is no DargonGod there.
15 is too much, but 13-14 seems fair.
I thought the exact same thing
This is a good time
I hope to get better at it as time goes on
UrLord
You are either elitist, or making grand assumptions because people get 1 shot (which can happen to anyone).
I still can't fathom though why you build a 25 man instance that requires coordination, and then provide ZERO tools to really coordinate. Missing tools include...cant join as a raid group, cant join as a party, no dedicated instanced chat channel. Even forming parties is hard due to not having a dedicated zone chat channel.
I'll just farm the Linu's through treasures and coffers, ty.
My question was 'In what game do you play endcontent with a fresh max level char?' The answer is, in not one single one. I DID NOT ASK what game allows you... as you claim.
Most games just gate endcontent with required clears or gear, no GS. You would have to have cleared X to go to Y, got gear A to survive effect B. This was common in LOTRO and WOW, at last. GS is not common in the MMOs, I played. BUT in EVERY MMO I played I was able to chose my group and was not forced to group with random ppl. I played in one of the few T 2 HM raids in LOTRO on my server. No one ever would have taken a badly geared char to endcontent. After MONTH of training and gearing up, you could take ONE or TWO friends with non essencial roles to a farmrun. You NEVER were forced to carry badly geared PuGs.
If you would be able to build groups with 25 ppl, you can take whoever you want to your raid, but as long as there are 5 groups of 5 ppl, I dont want to waste my time because someone tried to carry his 5k friends and failed.
So far I like it, despite it's a bit too directive. Do this, do that, come back, attack, defend. The NPCs shout, the brainless players obey.
It's nice that it's difficult, it feels like when WoW releases a new boss, and then Paragon or Method fight for a World first and when at 500th attempt they beat the boss, they post a video and afterwards any little guild knows the winning strategy. Too bad there is no elite guild to do that here.
Initially I was skeptic that pugs would be able to understand how the fight works and work together. However, I was surprised that on Friday, by my 3rd attempt at Tiamat, we defeated her. I have beaten her 20+ times in a row. I have stopped because it seems the instances I am in are bugged where I do not get a reward for the event, just the chest. Some people have gotten it, some have not. One way to fix it seems to be to switch to a non bugged instance after zoning in, and then defeating her.
I have noticed most of the good players that will be able to down her are usually in the first few instances that are created in the first 10 seconds. The later instances are new players that don't really know what to do or don't want to follow directions. Which is understandable as this game never promoted raid style, player camaraderie, or group strategy (except for VT boss).
For those that do not know, you want to have 2 groups for one dragon, the 5th group can rotate between the two dragons or on a new dragon. At the end of the first dragon phase, there should be 2 dragon below 25% and another dragon or two below 90% or less. At the end of the second dragon phase, 4 dragons should be at below25% and the 5th dragon at less than 50%(it doesn't really matter at this point). Last 3rd phase, all dragons die.
This is a vague description for an efficient way to kill tiamat. Right now, most believe it should be 5 people per head, which is bad. The reason is, say one person in each group is a debuffer/buffer. The debuff would benefit 4 people in the current strategy. However in the strategy I mention, 9 people would benefit from debuff/buff. This is why open world HE dragons die so fast. Once a couple of debuffers are in the mix, everyone does a lot of damage.
If they implement party grouping/guild grouping. This encounter will be very easy. Most of the time should be able to kill on the 2nd dragon phase.
The developers already acknowledged that they screwed up with the queue system for this event so I'd expect that to be fixed. Also, every instance has a dedicated channel; it's called "Say". However, zone chat is one of the reasons this event is harder than it needs to be. If you have zone chat on, you're getting all the comments from everyone in every Tiamat instance, not just the ones in your instance. That's why folks turned to using "Say" instead. Some folks probably don't realize that and it leads to miscommunication.
I kind of like that this event practically requires leadership by one or a few people to get the groups organized.