Find me in game. It's frustrating so everyone is really on edge. I'll explain the mechanics. @kyafox
Thanks Kyafox, although its starting to sound like my main isn't quite ready to go yet. At mid 12K, he's fine for the typical Well of Dragons campaigns, but I'm now hearing he should be no less than 13k and probably 15k....
Might be able to "juice up" some refinements and get him into the 13's though.
Here are my four things that I personally seen, experienced, and heard others talk about:
1) Groups getting separated when zoning in together,
2) Tiamat script failing to advance after protecting the clerics (heads never spawn),
3) Blue dragon causing slide show lag that won't go away until the effected person kills themselves,
4) Not getting a reward at the end (both in losses and in wins).
They should add other requirements for entering dungeons other than GS. Like the dungeon mastery III achievement to enter eLOL or tiamant. Really sometimes I queue for eLoL and find people who don't know how to jump and die in lava. They really are 14K GS and they didn't find out that you can jump in this game.
The group splitting isn't just a problem on entering the temple but also during the fight. In case your game crashes (for various reasons) and you come back, you will spawn in different instance than the rest of your group. I had a crash 3 minutes before the end and spawned into one of the broken instances (where the heads don't spawn after the cleric phase). This also resulted in a very poor ranked because only the instance you're in at the end counts for the ranking.
The only thing I would ask for is some serious discussions go into the planning stage. It is far too uncoordinated. There needs to be UI additions to support raid content that simply don't exist.
I've had a 9K GS in my party, they were buffed up prior to entering to 10.5K GS. I'll agree that the GS requirement should be around 15K.
I asked the person "How in the hell did you even get in here?", "I had 10.5K before entering" replied said person.
I personally Love this encounter (I won't call it a dungeon). But, I would like to group with; Folks I like, and Folks that are geared (in that order!!!).
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
edited December 2014
I don't think that gs is the problem with the design of Tiamat, the problem is to expect 25 random people to work together on an international server. They should play that Benny Hill them music to Tiamat, because that is how it feels, the odds are that some dragon head is not getting attention and then people try to run to it, which means that dragon head gets killed and some other head is then the problem. If they want to persist by creating 25 man pugs (I assume they want this because some guilds will farm Tiamat to death) then the design should allow of formal creation of colour teams, make it clear that you can only damage one dragon head, the rest are immune if you don't match the colour.
If ye are not gonna allow pre-made groups then at least place colored flags, one for each dragon head, in the waiting room. This would make it easier to form groups.
I've fought Tiamat many times and I have yet to see another guild member even though many are fighting in other instances. Tiamat fears us getting together. :rolleyes:
It does need decent gear - I think many people with the base entry requirement may struggle - but you're right in that the main issue is teamwork and coordination. It's just badly designed from that viewpoint. My point was that this didn't show up during testing on Preview because by and large the players that bother to do testing on there are experienced and know how to work as a team. They also do research and read guides/forums. The vast majority of MMO players do none of these things.
I did one with really good gear. Timed off the gems and knocked it most of the way down first pass. Then failed on the next two. I mean when you see 4 gems go off at once it is a bad sign. Hope one of them was not yours....
If ye are not gonna allow pre-made groups then at least place colored flags, one for each dragon head, in the waiting room. This would make it easier to form groups.
I think they will soon allow us to make premade groups
I haven't had the chance to fight Tiamat yet. Been putting in alot of extra hours. But after reading the feedback here, I am in no hurry. How in the name of the GODS could you guys design a 25 player raid (HE, actually) WITHOUT the ability to que with your guildmates? What were you thinking?! Oh well, I'll give it a go soon as you patch it up with queing and so it doesn't play exactly as terribly as it did on the test shard lol. Just wow.
So true. Tiamat really isn't that hard and higher gs requirement is not needed, but if we have people who need 14k to beat a t2 dungeon because they are totally clueless (I am especially annoyed by CWs using OF even on a dragon and clerics sunbursing all and everywhere, but HRs and SWs aggroing mobs and then running aroung like crazy monkeys are not much better. And then some people summon wererat thief... )
Of course there has to be a way to enter there as a team, no doubt about it. But more gs? No please don't, we need some place where we can win by skill and not by overgearing content.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Guessing it's just another cockup. They don't seem organised enough for very agile conspiracy.
One of my favourite quotes.
Yeah - the way it's failed leads me to believe they broke something server side by accident. I think this mod might be setting a new record for the sheer amount of broken stuff.
accretionedgeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited December 2014
I have done 10 or 11 runs and won twice. Unfortunately just did a run where the Red Dragon head glitched. It did not rise up and remained lower than the ledge of the platform and could not be targeted. Would have easily won this one, too. We got the other four heads all down to < 10% with 8 minutes left.
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
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clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
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zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
I have done 10 or 11 runs and won twice. Unfortunately just did a run where the Red Dragon head glitched. It did not rise up and remained lower than the ledge of the platform and could not be targeted. Would have easily won this one, too. We got the other four heads all down to < 10% with 8 minutes left.
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
Personaly never encounteres, but at least one gruop of ppl evry 1 hour on legit is complaing that they get they head bugged ^^'.
the lag is shocking as far as I'm concerned. within a few seconds of getting anywhere near the dragon heads, my FPS drops to less than 1, and has been as bad as 1 frame every 3 seconds. it's that bad, I can't even release when I die due to the lag. I have to wait until the timer runs out and the next cleric defense phase begins.
It is problematic, that you cant build groups. The challange seems to be, that you have to be lucky enough, that at last 15-20 of your teammates know the 'raid' or speak english and are able to folllow instructions. Furthermore a decent part of your group should have more than 10k GS, otherwise, you wont have enough dps.
The mechanic of the fight is not challenging at all.
I dont like the fact, that my sucsess depends on factors I have no way to influence. Thats why this raid is, in my opinion, flawed atm.
Well, part of the problem is that this is the first ever encounter of it's type in Neverwinter. Raids like this have been happening for years in other MMOs. But not here. Add on top of everything else the poor implimentation byt the dev department, the constant hangups within the game due to cleric and Guardian fighter abilities. And you have a almost no win scenario. Now the higher end guilds have already found a work around and are keeping it to themselves. So as to keep everybody else out. And while I dont approve I do understand it.
The blame here is around 25% the playerbase and 75% the developers.
This should have been done on a smaller scale first. But of course, it wasnt. Because our development team looks for the quick and easy path instead of putting a little effort out there for a quality game.
Things are really going down hill here. The amount of grinding put in for each new item just goes up and up because of the game is being designed around people that already have everything. Not the 85%+ of people who dont.
The devs put out a entire expansion for something that should have been made just for the top tier of players. This should have been solely put out as top GS content and other stuff put out for the rest of the playerbase. When was the last new story arc that was put out for Neverwinter? What additional content has been put out for those below level 60?
Minimum effort is being put out solely just to keep those people in who are spending the most money. In the long run this will not only kill Neverwinter, but probably STO and Cryptic as a whole. I kinda feel for the poor sops playing CO because there are no other good superhero MMOs out there.
We need a new dev team, and a new direction for Neverwinter. Otherwise we may as well all go play DDO.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
Sorry for not being precise, I actually meant the overall content especially dungeons, not Tiamat in particular. But even there, switching to, lets say, chains, and in case of CW to singu would be better. If everyone cooperate, that is. And ofc sunburst is very useful against devils in killing heads phase.... unless some HR/SW (I know, other classes can do that too, but those two are the worst) makes them run around.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited December 2014
T1 drops from LOL killed T1 dungeons. T2 drops from Tiamat killed T2 dungeons. People can get full HV or AoW sets around 100k next saturday. Artifact Weapons killed MC, VT and CN. There is no reason, for going to these dungeons, even if you are a beginner at NWO. You can refine your 24k a day, you can get all the stuff from ah for 3 days refine, they're so cheap now. But you cant sell Vigh viziers cap for 800k anymore, to get some bonus AD. There is no way to get AD anymore, only with very high luck RNG, getting Tiamat artifact or lockbox epics.
But you cant level up your artifact equipment for free anymore. Dragon hoard enchantments were a really stupid way, to get rp. You could farm or bot foundries, which I refused, beacuse itS not what playing means to me. But at least I could buy resonance stone from AH, farming AD from T2, CN, etc. Not anymore.
So, where does the RP comes now? From 800 zen bloody rubies?
So, please, fix Tiamat, give us the option for premade parties, and remove t2 drops, replace them with some high value Rp items (no 1 lesser resonance stone!!). For example, a pouch of greater resonance stones - 1-20 r. stones in it.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
And how do you explain OF against Tiamat's heralds or any ToD dragon? To be clear, when no other mobs are around. I see this all the time and I can't understand.
Also, even if I speak about cases when devils are not around or other people keep them busy, so many other ways to deal with them during Tiamat... like asking your cleric to push it maybe? Banality with the new Sunburst. If a CW wants to take them down how about repel or even shield bump? or just help the others with pushing: entangling force they love so much maybe? Singularity to have them exactly where you want them?
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
By damaging the mobs we are agroing them. They ignore the clerics and come for us. If this was a real raid with actual tanks and a coordinated group instead of randoms a normal strategy might be actually *minimize* damage and make them last longer while a tank keeps them agroed, but damaging works just as well.
What does not work as well is the constant knockbacks throwing mobs left and right. Yeah, they are not attacking the clerics. They also wouldn't if we were using actual damaging skills to kill them.
It's not like our cooldowns are huge. We can easily dispatch a group and have our skills ready for the next one. Knocking them back is as useful as a wizard happily going around with Shield slotted in because like that they 'hardly' die.
I see no major problem, top ends guilds have ways to find togheter maybe it should be just more easy to do that.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
So what is needed is:
Ways to choose your 25 men
A gs requirement of 17k.
Its not like you are supposed to be best in slot in 10 days.
I see no major problem, top ends guilds have ways to find togheter maybe it should be just more easy to do that.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
First, you fail not because of low gs, as you just admitted. Second, 10k gs limit doesn't mean all ppl there have 10gs. Third, I would take a fresh 60 with a sense of teamwork over a 20k paingiver who likes to toss mobs around any day.
Comments
Thanks Kyafox, although its starting to sound like my main isn't quite ready to go yet. At mid 12K, he's fine for the typical Well of Dragons campaigns, but I'm now hearing he should be no less than 13k and probably 15k....
Might be able to "juice up" some refinements and get him into the 13's though.
1) Groups getting separated when zoning in together,
2) Tiamat script failing to advance after protecting the clerics (heads never spawn),
3) Blue dragon causing slide show lag that won't go away until the effected person kills themselves,
4) Not getting a reward at the end (both in losses and in wins).
The only thing I would ask for is some serious discussions go into the planning stage. It is far too uncoordinated. There needs to be UI additions to support raid content that simply don't exist.
I asked the person "How in the hell did you even get in here?", "I had 10.5K before entering" replied said person.
I personally Love this encounter (I won't call it a dungeon). But, I would like to group with; Folks I like, and Folks that are geared (in that order!!!).
I've fought Tiamat many times and I have yet to see another guild member even though many are fighting in other instances. Tiamat fears us getting together. :rolleyes:
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
I did one with really good gear. Timed off the gems and knocked it most of the way down first pass. Then failed on the next two. I mean when you see 4 gems go off at once it is a bad sign. Hope one of them was not yours....
I think they will soon allow us to make premade groups
Most likely. They stated the way it is now is not WAI somewhere.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
Yeah - the way it's failed leads me to believe they broke something server side by accident. I think this mod might be setting a new record for the sheer amount of broken stuff.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
Personaly never encounteres, but at least one gruop of ppl evry 1 hour on legit is complaing that they get they head bugged ^^'.
then get no reward but you can open chest with your key.
The mechanic of the fight is not challenging at all.
I dont like the fact, that my sucsess depends on factors I have no way to influence. Thats why this raid is, in my opinion, flawed atm.
The blame here is around 25% the playerbase and 75% the developers.
This should have been done on a smaller scale first. But of course, it wasnt. Because our development team looks for the quick and easy path instead of putting a little effort out there for a quality game.
Things are really going down hill here. The amount of grinding put in for each new item just goes up and up because of the game is being designed around people that already have everything. Not the 85%+ of people who dont.
The devs put out a entire expansion for something that should have been made just for the top tier of players. This should have been solely put out as top GS content and other stuff put out for the rest of the playerbase. When was the last new story arc that was put out for Neverwinter? What additional content has been put out for those below level 60?
Minimum effort is being put out solely just to keep those people in who are spending the most money. In the long run this will not only kill Neverwinter, but probably STO and Cryptic as a whole. I kinda feel for the poor sops playing CO because there are no other good superhero MMOs out there.
We need a new dev team, and a new direction for Neverwinter. Otherwise we may as well all go play DDO.
Sorry for not being precise, I actually meant the overall content especially dungeons, not Tiamat in particular. But even there, switching to, lets say, chains, and in case of CW to singu would be better. If everyone cooperate, that is. And ofc sunburst is very useful against devils in killing heads phase.... unless some HR/SW (I know, other classes can do that too, but those two are the worst) makes them run around.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
But you cant level up your artifact equipment for free anymore. Dragon hoard enchantments were a really stupid way, to get rp. You could farm or bot foundries, which I refused, beacuse itS not what playing means to me. But at least I could buy resonance stone from AH, farming AD from T2, CN, etc. Not anymore.
So, where does the RP comes now? From 800 zen bloody rubies?
So, please, fix Tiamat, give us the option for premade parties, and remove t2 drops, replace them with some high value Rp items (no 1 lesser resonance stone!!). For example, a pouch of greater resonance stones - 1-20 r. stones in it.
And how do you explain OF against Tiamat's heralds or any ToD dragon? To be clear, when no other mobs are around. I see this all the time and I can't understand.
Also, even if I speak about cases when devils are not around or other people keep them busy, so many other ways to deal with them during Tiamat... like asking your cleric to push it maybe? Banality with the new Sunburst. If a CW wants to take them down how about repel or even shield bump? or just help the others with pushing: entangling force they love so much maybe? Singularity to have them exactly where you want them?
By damaging the mobs we are agroing them. They ignore the clerics and come for us. If this was a real raid with actual tanks and a coordinated group instead of randoms a normal strategy might be actually *minimize* damage and make them last longer while a tank keeps them agroed, but damaging works just as well.
What does not work as well is the constant knockbacks throwing mobs left and right. Yeah, they are not attacking the clerics. They also wouldn't if we were using actual damaging skills to kill them.
It's not like our cooldowns are huge. We can easily dispatch a group and have our skills ready for the next one. Knocking them back is as useful as a wizard happily going around with Shield slotted in because like that they 'hardly' die.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
So what is needed is:
Ways to choose your 25 men
A gs requirement of 17k.
Its not like you are supposed to be best in slot in 10 days.
First, you fail not because of low gs, as you just admitted. Second, 10k gs limit doesn't mean all ppl there have 10gs. Third, I would take a fresh 60 with a sense of teamwork over a 20k paingiver who likes to toss mobs around any day.