clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
edited December 2014
I don't think that gs is the problem with the design of Tiamat, the problem is to expect 25 random people to work together on an international server. They should play that Benny Hill them music to Tiamat, because that is how it feels, the odds are that some dragon head is not getting attention and then people try to run to it, which means that dragon head gets killed and some other head is then the problem. If they want to persist by creating 25 man pugs (I assume they want this because some guilds will farm Tiamat to death) then the design should allow of formal creation of colour teams, make it clear that you can only damage one dragon head, the rest are immune if you don't match the colour.
If ye are not gonna allow pre-made groups then at least place colored flags, one for each dragon head, in the waiting room. This would make it easier to form groups.
I've fought Tiamat many times and I have yet to see another guild member even though many are fighting in other instances. Tiamat fears us getting together. :rolleyes:
It does need decent gear - I think many people with the base entry requirement may struggle - but you're right in that the main issue is teamwork and coordination. It's just badly designed from that viewpoint. My point was that this didn't show up during testing on Preview because by and large the players that bother to do testing on there are experienced and know how to work as a team. They also do research and read guides/forums. The vast majority of MMO players do none of these things.
I did one with really good gear. Timed off the gems and knocked it most of the way down first pass. Then failed on the next two. I mean when you see 4 gems go off at once it is a bad sign. Hope one of them was not yours....
If ye are not gonna allow pre-made groups then at least place colored flags, one for each dragon head, in the waiting room. This would make it easier to form groups.
I think they will soon allow us to make premade groups
I haven't had the chance to fight Tiamat yet. Been putting in alot of extra hours. But after reading the feedback here, I am in no hurry. How in the name of the GODS could you guys design a 25 player raid (HE, actually) WITHOUT the ability to que with your guildmates? What were you thinking?! Oh well, I'll give it a go soon as you patch it up with queing and so it doesn't play exactly as terribly as it did on the test shard lol. Just wow.
So true. Tiamat really isn't that hard and higher gs requirement is not needed, but if we have people who need 14k to beat a t2 dungeon because they are totally clueless (I am especially annoyed by CWs using OF even on a dragon and clerics sunbursing all and everywhere, but HRs and SWs aggroing mobs and then running aroung like crazy monkeys are not much better. And then some people summon wererat thief... )
Of course there has to be a way to enter there as a team, no doubt about it. But more gs? No please don't, we need some place where we can win by skill and not by overgearing content.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Guessing it's just another cockup. They don't seem organised enough for very agile conspiracy.
One of my favourite quotes.
Yeah - the way it's failed leads me to believe they broke something server side by accident. I think this mod might be setting a new record for the sheer amount of broken stuff.
accretionedgeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited December 2014
I have done 10 or 11 runs and won twice. Unfortunately just did a run where the Red Dragon head glitched. It did not rise up and remained lower than the ledge of the platform and could not be targeted. Would have easily won this one, too. We got the other four heads all down to < 10% with 8 minutes left.
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
0
clericalistMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 595Arc User
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
0
zekethesinnerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 805Arc User
I have done 10 or 11 runs and won twice. Unfortunately just did a run where the Red Dragon head glitched. It did not rise up and remained lower than the ledge of the platform and could not be targeted. Would have easily won this one, too. We got the other four heads all down to < 10% with 8 minutes left.
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
Personaly never encounteres, but at least one gruop of ppl evry 1 hour on legit is complaing that they get they head bugged ^^'.
the lag is shocking as far as I'm concerned. within a few seconds of getting anywhere near the dragon heads, my FPS drops to less than 1, and has been as bad as 1 frame every 3 seconds. it's that bad, I can't even release when I die due to the lag. I have to wait until the timer runs out and the next cleric defense phase begins.
It is problematic, that you cant build groups. The challange seems to be, that you have to be lucky enough, that at last 15-20 of your teammates know the 'raid' or speak english and are able to folllow instructions. Furthermore a decent part of your group should have more than 10k GS, otherwise, you wont have enough dps.
The mechanic of the fight is not challenging at all.
I dont like the fact, that my sucsess depends on factors I have no way to influence. Thats why this raid is, in my opinion, flawed atm.
Well, part of the problem is that this is the first ever encounter of it's type in Neverwinter. Raids like this have been happening for years in other MMOs. But not here. Add on top of everything else the poor implimentation byt the dev department, the constant hangups within the game due to cleric and Guardian fighter abilities. And you have a almost no win scenario. Now the higher end guilds have already found a work around and are keeping it to themselves. So as to keep everybody else out. And while I dont approve I do understand it.
The blame here is around 25% the playerbase and 75% the developers.
This should have been done on a smaller scale first. But of course, it wasnt. Because our development team looks for the quick and easy path instead of putting a little effort out there for a quality game.
Things are really going down hill here. The amount of grinding put in for each new item just goes up and up because of the game is being designed around people that already have everything. Not the 85%+ of people who dont.
The devs put out a entire expansion for something that should have been made just for the top tier of players. This should have been solely put out as top GS content and other stuff put out for the rest of the playerbase. When was the last new story arc that was put out for Neverwinter? What additional content has been put out for those below level 60?
Minimum effort is being put out solely just to keep those people in who are spending the most money. In the long run this will not only kill Neverwinter, but probably STO and Cryptic as a whole. I kinda feel for the poor sops playing CO because there are no other good superhero MMOs out there.
We need a new dev team, and a new direction for Neverwinter. Otherwise we may as well all go play DDO.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
Sorry for not being precise, I actually meant the overall content especially dungeons, not Tiamat in particular. But even there, switching to, lets say, chains, and in case of CW to singu would be better. If everyone cooperate, that is. And ofc sunburst is very useful against devils in killing heads phase.... unless some HR/SW (I know, other classes can do that too, but those two are the worst) makes them run around.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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blazious11Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 331Arc User
edited December 2014
T1 drops from LOL killed T1 dungeons. T2 drops from Tiamat killed T2 dungeons. People can get full HV or AoW sets around 100k next saturday. Artifact Weapons killed MC, VT and CN. There is no reason, for going to these dungeons, even if you are a beginner at NWO. You can refine your 24k a day, you can get all the stuff from ah for 3 days refine, they're so cheap now. But you cant sell Vigh viziers cap for 800k anymore, to get some bonus AD. There is no way to get AD anymore, only with very high luck RNG, getting Tiamat artifact or lockbox epics.
But you cant level up your artifact equipment for free anymore. Dragon hoard enchantments were a really stupid way, to get rp. You could farm or bot foundries, which I refused, beacuse itS not what playing means to me. But at least I could buy resonance stone from AH, farming AD from T2, CN, etc. Not anymore.
So, where does the RP comes now? From 800 zen bloody rubies?
So, please, fix Tiamat, give us the option for premade parties, and remove t2 drops, replace them with some high value Rp items (no 1 lesser resonance stone!!). For example, a pouch of greater resonance stones - 1-20 r. stones in it.
My story is truly a grand tale! Of course, any story about me is going to be grand simply by virtue of the main character.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
And how do you explain OF against Tiamat's heralds or any ToD dragon? To be clear, when no other mobs are around. I see this all the time and I can't understand.
Also, even if I speak about cases when devils are not around or other people keep them busy, so many other ways to deal with them during Tiamat... like asking your cleric to push it maybe? Banality with the new Sunburst. If a CW wants to take them down how about repel or even shield bump? or just help the others with pushing: entangling force they love so much maybe? Singularity to have them exactly where you want them?
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
By damaging the mobs we are agroing them. They ignore the clerics and come for us. If this was a real raid with actual tanks and a coordinated group instead of randoms a normal strategy might be actually *minimize* damage and make them last longer while a tank keeps them agroed, but damaging works just as well.
What does not work as well is the constant knockbacks throwing mobs left and right. Yeah, they are not attacking the clerics. They also wouldn't if we were using actual damaging skills to kill them.
It's not like our cooldowns are huge. We can easily dispatch a group and have our skills ready for the next one. Knocking them back is as useful as a wizard happily going around with Shield slotted in because like that they 'hardly' die.
I see no major problem, top ends guilds have ways to find togheter maybe it should be just more easy to do that.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
So what is needed is:
Ways to choose your 25 men
A gs requirement of 17k.
Its not like you are supposed to be best in slot in 10 days.
I see no major problem, top ends guilds have ways to find togheter maybe it should be just more easy to do that.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
First, you fail not because of low gs, as you just admitted. Second, 10k gs limit doesn't mean all ppl there have 10gs. Third, I would take a fresh 60 with a sense of teamwork over a 20k paingiver who likes to toss mobs around any day.
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aspen1979Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 64
edited December 2014
I'D rather lose then win 4 in a row and not get any kind of reward....
How many months testing this?
right now we cant even get hoard reclamation rewards to tier2....
That is because it does not make sense to put treasure into the Reclaim mission until you have a better chance at a completion. People are holding back until they feel more confident of a win.
Also, the sheer number of turn in required to get a reasonable level is pretty insane. They should look into dropping the requirements for the turn in quest.
Tiamat really needs to have the GS requirement increased, or the stats of lower GS members boosted when they join. Better yet, let us preform teams.
I have only had 2 successful runs so far...which is pretty sad.
I parsed the logs on the last run....
My team consisted of a 10k player a 13k player a 16k player a 18k player & a 20k player. There were quite a few 10k players in the instance as in other teams as well.
DPS (for the entire fight including running back and forth time) ranged from over 20k/sec down to 2k/sec with damage spikes of over 100k/sec from some players while others are spiking at well under 20k.
2 of the dragon heads were still near half health at the end of that run...
Oh yea..almost forgot...LAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG...seriously there are points in the fight where you just spam your encounter buttons & hope they go off and you don't die since it lags so bad you can't do anything.
I'm in the minority here, but I rather like the format. I live overseas in a different time zone and that makes it difficult for me to hook up with guild members. And what little interaction I have has not always been very pleasant. Always some power tripping alpha wanna be who thinks the only way is his way. And I get in trouble when I don't toe the line. The way I see it, cliques already enjoy too big an advantage over us lone wolfs. Cliques of high gear score snobs doing multiple runs pile up the astral diamonds, which in turn allow them to up their gear score. Feels like the only way to do well in this game is to either pay big money on lock boxes, or else put up with nonsense that I thought I had put behind me in high school.
I do not think that Tiamat is nearly the disaster some make it out to be. The lag for me is no worse than for other events. The few times I've joined it WAS chaotic, and we failed miserably, but I still got some pretty decent consolation prizes. Much the same as I get in other encounters. I imagine that when players get a better idea what to expect that the win rate will go up considerably. Really pretty simple. Black and white for low GS players. Final round kill outer heads and then move inwards to green and red.
I have beaten Tiamat over 10+ times over the weekend (got 14 Lius' favor now), our instance usually consist of about 15~20/25 players around 18~23k GS, and we normally manage to beat the dragon queen about 15 mins into the fight.
For those fail instance I notice 2 things.
1. Dragon Head bugged, not showing up at the platform or Clerics bugged, not regenerating the bar (no mobs spawn too)
2.
Two things.
- GS requirement is FINE, and I actually encourage staying the way it is as it allows more players to enjoy the event. ONLY IF we get 5~10 more minutes in the fight, this would give the low GS groups more chance challenging the Tiamat encounter.
- If the above is not possible, then like what many others have expected, the average GS limit needs to be adjusted to approximately 15k+. In one of the games a group of 5 of us have taken care of 2 dragon heads (black/green) and downed both heads down to 10% or so in 2 turns, but the rest of the 20 players could not manage to bring the other 3 heads down to even half... the cleric's part was okay as it did not take too long, so its really just about the DPS capability they have....
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baalhashmalMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 65Arc User
edited December 2014
If there is one goal that Cryptic/Perfect World has met with the Rise of Tiamat is fostering the animosity amongst the player base.
The moment I saw the countdown to Tiamat's arrival, I instantly thought:
"They're shooting themselves in the foot with a deadline."
I mean, I can't blame the devs entirely for pushing a half-finished product with all sorts of bugs (just look at when the government healthcare website went up and how it was plagued with many issues). Higher management may have lacked the acumen to understand these projects take time and wanted to rake in money with the release of this encounter as soon as possible with holidays and all around the corner.
The encounter needs to be fixed:
• Allow pre-assembled parties to queue in together.
• Reduce the frame rate lag.
• Apply a GS limit (And I concur, GS isn't everything, but it shows a level of investment).
• Reduce Hoard amount needed. Everyone's being ultra-conservative and I can't blame them as its a gamble as to whether your instance will succeed/fail.
Cleric:Marquis Elmdore - Current Main Wizard: Iamblichus Fighter: Anna the Titan Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Comments
I've fought Tiamat many times and I have yet to see another guild member even though many are fighting in other instances. Tiamat fears us getting together. :rolleyes:
Neverwinter Wonderland
Neverwinter Wet & Wild
Neverwinter 2nd Anniversary Montage
Neverwinter Anniversary Montage
Protector's Jubilee Speech
Oh the Carnage
I did one with really good gear. Timed off the gems and knocked it most of the way down first pass. Then failed on the next two. I mean when you see 4 gems go off at once it is a bad sign. Hope one of them was not yours....
I think they will soon allow us to make premade groups
Most likely. They stated the way it is now is not WAI somewhere.
You do realize that the clerics get knocked to the ground if a mob hits them, hence that is why the DC's are sunbursting and HR's,SW's aggroing the mobs. It's not how fast you kill, you just need to keep them away from the clerics.
Yeah - the way it's failed leads me to believe they broke something server side by accident. I think this mod might be setting a new record for the sheer amount of broken stuff.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Anyone else run into this problem with one of the dragon heads not rising?
I can confirm this. I have noticed that the the clerics I defend are usually the first to get to full power, they are a crowd control test, not a dps test.
Personaly never encounteres, but at least one gruop of ppl evry 1 hour on legit is complaing that they get they head bugged ^^'.
then get no reward but you can open chest with your key.
The mechanic of the fight is not challenging at all.
I dont like the fact, that my sucsess depends on factors I have no way to influence. Thats why this raid is, in my opinion, flawed atm.
The blame here is around 25% the playerbase and 75% the developers.
This should have been done on a smaller scale first. But of course, it wasnt. Because our development team looks for the quick and easy path instead of putting a little effort out there for a quality game.
Things are really going down hill here. The amount of grinding put in for each new item just goes up and up because of the game is being designed around people that already have everything. Not the 85%+ of people who dont.
The devs put out a entire expansion for something that should have been made just for the top tier of players. This should have been solely put out as top GS content and other stuff put out for the rest of the playerbase. When was the last new story arc that was put out for Neverwinter? What additional content has been put out for those below level 60?
Minimum effort is being put out solely just to keep those people in who are spending the most money. In the long run this will not only kill Neverwinter, but probably STO and Cryptic as a whole. I kinda feel for the poor sops playing CO because there are no other good superhero MMOs out there.
We need a new dev team, and a new direction for Neverwinter. Otherwise we may as well all go play DDO.
Sorry for not being precise, I actually meant the overall content especially dungeons, not Tiamat in particular. But even there, switching to, lets say, chains, and in case of CW to singu would be better. If everyone cooperate, that is. And ofc sunburst is very useful against devils in killing heads phase.... unless some HR/SW (I know, other classes can do that too, but those two are the worst) makes them run around.
And seriously, OF used againsd Tiamat's head or other single enemy? That gives me some idea about that CW's level of expertise.
There are two reasons to use OF against a head. The devils trying to kill you, while you try to kill him. Your bleeding live and you can fill your HP while you take more dmg.
But you cant level up your artifact equipment for free anymore. Dragon hoard enchantments were a really stupid way, to get rp. You could farm or bot foundries, which I refused, beacuse itS not what playing means to me. But at least I could buy resonance stone from AH, farming AD from T2, CN, etc. Not anymore.
So, where does the RP comes now? From 800 zen bloody rubies?
So, please, fix Tiamat, give us the option for premade parties, and remove t2 drops, replace them with some high value Rp items (no 1 lesser resonance stone!!). For example, a pouch of greater resonance stones - 1-20 r. stones in it.
And how do you explain OF against Tiamat's heralds or any ToD dragon? To be clear, when no other mobs are around. I see this all the time and I can't understand.
Also, even if I speak about cases when devils are not around or other people keep them busy, so many other ways to deal with them during Tiamat... like asking your cleric to push it maybe? Banality with the new Sunburst. If a CW wants to take them down how about repel or even shield bump? or just help the others with pushing: entangling force they love so much maybe? Singularity to have them exactly where you want them?
By damaging the mobs we are agroing them. They ignore the clerics and come for us. If this was a real raid with actual tanks and a coordinated group instead of randoms a normal strategy might be actually *minimize* damage and make them last longer while a tank keeps them agroed, but damaging works just as well.
What does not work as well is the constant knockbacks throwing mobs left and right. Yeah, they are not attacking the clerics. They also wouldn't if we were using actual damaging skills to kill them.
It's not like our cooldowns are huge. We can easily dispatch a group and have our skills ready for the next one. Knocking them back is as useful as a wizard happily going around with Shield slotted in because like that they 'hardly' die.
Difficult is right too but calling it an encounter for 10k gs is just a joke.
We sometimes can fail with an average gearscore of 17.5k.
I already got my main hand of my tr, tomorrow i will start to work on my hr.
I like it
So what is needed is:
Ways to choose your 25 men
A gs requirement of 17k.
Its not like you are supposed to be best in slot in 10 days.
First, you fail not because of low gs, as you just admitted. Second, 10k gs limit doesn't mean all ppl there have 10gs. Third, I would take a fresh 60 with a sense of teamwork over a 20k paingiver who likes to toss mobs around any day.
How many months testing this?
That is because it does not make sense to put treasure into the Reclaim mission until you have a better chance at a completion. People are holding back until they feel more confident of a win.
Also, the sheer number of turn in required to get a reasonable level is pretty insane. They should look into dropping the requirements for the turn in quest.
Better yet, let us preform teams.
I have only had 2 successful runs so far...which is pretty sad.
I parsed the logs on the last run....
My team consisted of a 10k player a 13k player a 16k player a 18k player & a 20k player. There were quite a few 10k players in the instance as in other teams as well.
DPS (for the entire fight including running back and forth time) ranged from over 20k/sec down to 2k/sec with damage spikes of over 100k/sec from some players while others are spiking at well under 20k.
2 of the dragon heads were still near half health at the end of that run...
Oh yea..almost forgot...LAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGG...seriously there are points in the fight where you just spam your encounter buttons & hope they go off and you don't die since it lags so bad you can't do anything.
I do not think that Tiamat is nearly the disaster some make it out to be. The lag for me is no worse than for other events. The few times I've joined it WAS chaotic, and we failed miserably, but I still got some pretty decent consolation prizes. Much the same as I get in other encounters. I imagine that when players get a better idea what to expect that the win rate will go up considerably. Really pretty simple. Black and white for low GS players. Final round kill outer heads and then move inwards to green and red.
For those fail instance I notice 2 things.
1. Dragon Head bugged, not showing up at the platform or Clerics bugged, not regenerating the bar (no mobs spawn too)
2.
Two things.
- GS requirement is FINE, and I actually encourage staying the way it is as it allows more players to enjoy the event. ONLY IF we get 5~10 more minutes in the fight, this would give the low GS groups more chance challenging the Tiamat encounter.
- If the above is not possible, then like what many others have expected, the average GS limit needs to be adjusted to approximately 15k+. In one of the games a group of 5 of us have taken care of 2 dragon heads (black/green) and downed both heads down to 10% or so in 2 turns, but the rest of the 20 players could not manage to bring the other 3 heads down to even half... the cleric's part was okay as it did not take too long, so its really just about the DPS capability they have....
The moment I saw the countdown to Tiamat's arrival, I instantly thought:
"They're shooting themselves in the foot with a deadline."
I mean, I can't blame the devs entirely for pushing a half-finished product with all sorts of bugs (just look at when the government healthcare website went up and how it was plagued with many issues). Higher management may have lacked the acumen to understand these projects take time and wanted to rake in money with the release of this encounter as soon as possible with holidays and all around the corner.
The encounter needs to be fixed:
• Allow pre-assembled parties to queue in together.
• Reduce the frame rate lag.
• Apply a GS limit (And I concur, GS isn't everything, but it shows a level of investment).
• Reduce Hoard amount needed. Everyone's being ultra-conservative and I can't blame them as its a gamble as to whether your instance will succeed/fail.
Cleric: Marquis Elmdore - Current Main
Wizard: Iamblichus
Fighter: Anna the Titan
Barbarian: Anann Valkyrja
Ranger: Minerva Cory'phaia
Warlock: Suri Coralyne Reid
Guild: She Looked Level 18.
Alliance: Imperium