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Official Feedback Thread: Other Balance Changes

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    ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    vasiamen1 wrote: »
    CW Chaos Magic feedback:

    10 min of hitting the dummy and we have the procs:
    Chaos Magic: Growth - 41 times
    Chaos Magic: Nexus - 11 times
    Chaos Magic: Fury - 7 times

    is that normal?

    I always noticed growth, the least useful one, proc most....
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    aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I've also had Growth proc over, and over, and over, every few seconds.
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    ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    aulduron wrote: »
    I've also had Growth proc over, and over, and over, every few seconds.

    Wouldn't surprise me if it was intentional. Like the 20% chance to proc nightmare wizardry that's still 5% in reality.
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    kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    BUG:
    Tool tip for Nightmare Wizardy states the activation chance is 20%. Reviewing my ACT parse for a 4 dummy test, I had 449 hits, and only 17 Nightmare Wizardry Combat Advantages. This is less than 4%.
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    ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    BUG:
    Tool tip for Nightmare Wizardy states the activation chance is 20%. Reviewing my ACT parse for a 4 dummy test, I had 449 hits, and only 17 Nightmare Wizardry Combat Advantages. This is less than 4%.

    We all knew for some time.
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    kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I doubt even with these buffs mod5 renegade would be close to mod4 thaum.
    So all in all another regular CW nerf by module release while other classes buffed!

    Those dots (stom spell, assailing) was some compensation for shard an overall mod3 CW damage loss.
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    kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    macjae wrote: »
    CWs don't need more useful stuff in PvE. They need *less* useful stuff in PvE, if anything. CWs *do* need more useful stuff in PvP, especially with the upcoming changes.

    CWs a class is rolled for pve and for dungeons! Noone rolled a CW for pvp.
    Doing some dmg and being other than target practice in pvp is interesting and funny but we all knew it won't last for long.
    And indeed. Nerfing CW dots will make it less usefull in pvp. Then again serious players play pvp with HRs.
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    kozi001kozi001 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 876 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    johnperq wrote: »

    CW:

    Stormspell was too strong, got a nerf.
    (Am I really the only CW to agree here?)


    Storm spell wasn't "too strong" compared to other dps classes but if you referring bringing back the old shard damage I think I can live with that.
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    polaris1986polaris1986 Member Posts: 320 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Up GWF!! Up GWF!!
    Up GWF!! Up GWF!!
    Up GWF!! Up GWF!!
    Up GWF!! Up GWF!!

    We should have +5k gs at least in reserve to compete with others! Is it your balance?
    We should chose only one way of Destroyer to make Indomitable Battle Strike work as well!
    Indomitable Strength makes less then 10k damage with 5-6k of power (~15k gs)! How it is? lol! I play for Instigator and i finally fed up of this!

    Healer have better gamage than my warrior now! I crying ((((
    "sometimes the world doesn't need another hero, sometimes what it needs is a monster"

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    iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    vasiamen1 wrote: »
    CW Chaos Magic feedback:

    10 min of hitting the dummy and we have the procs:
    Chaos Magic: Growth - 41 times
    Chaos Magic: Nexus - 11 times
    Chaos Magic: Fury - 7 times

    is that normal?

    I think I will test this later , surely they all should have a 33.3% chance to proc ,if not then it is yet another ridiculous design .
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
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    meldan3nmeldan3n Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build)
    Control Wizard
    • Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
    • Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
    • Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
    • Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.

    Leave Storm Spell as it is, leave Assailant as it is. On maxed-potential level, the CW has no chance against HRs or GWFs or TRs. And yes, this is pre-CW-nerf.
    I like the change to Orb of Imposition; giving us a choice between damage and control. Now give us an appropriate compensation in damage:

    Focused Wizardry: Single target Powers deal 20/40/60% (up from 10/20/30%) more damage,
    and triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.

    The CW is the weakest class on preview right now (and on live, if the other classes are built right).

    Any one of those incoming changes would render the CW useless. All three at the same time without an appropriate compensation - you might as well delete the class. And no, by an appropriate compensation I don't mean my suggestion. My suggestion only refers to the Orb of Imposition nerf. If you think that all those three changes are a good idea, then there should be way bigger compensations for it than what I proposed.
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    zvieriszvieris Member Posts: 1,261 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    zacazu wrote: »
    I am not an expert in pvp, but Nimble Runner + Instigator's Vengeance seem much more appropriate than porpose destroyer/determination gain, once you get stacks passively, hits hard, runs, hits hard, etc. is a good synergy for what i see is the new "pvp gwf runner playstyle".

    Destroyer is a better runner even in the light of these Instigator changes. Due to decreased cooldown and increased duration of Battle Fury.

    Imho, Instigator should receive a DR buff on his unstoppable. He needs to take hits to increase his damage but has the worst survivability of the 3 specs... That's pretty sad. :confused:
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    dargrotdargrot Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build)
    Control Wizard
    • Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
    • Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
    • Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
    • Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.

    Storm Spell will go from activating 20% of the time to 12% (if you have a 40% crit. chance, less if below 40%... can I have a refund on my ray of frost artifact weapon please?) . I think you should do a crit check on the CW population, see what the typical crit rate is before slapping a final % chance to activate on this modification.

    I don't know the chance to activate for Assailing Force, but this sounds like a BIG nerf... BIG!

    Class balances are nice, at a minimum, they change things up and add the fun of exploring new builds. But, can we get some reviews on weapon and armor enchants? There are large gaps between effectiveness in these items... for example Frost enchant for the weapon (and frostburn for the armor for that matter, timers are way too long for most armor enchants.. and some weapon enchants).

    Add some pizzazz to the choices... for example, Frost enchant doing a dot over 3-4 second for some damage (12% at perfect?) and applying a chill stack each second or every other second... i.e. a weapon enchant that has control implications rather than all damage.

    These things will invigorate both the player base to try new things and will also stimulate the market.
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    burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dargrot wrote: »
    . Storm Spell will go from activating 20% of the time to 12% (if you have a 40% crit. chance, less if below 40%... can I have a refund on my ray of frost artifact weapon please?)

    its not like CW have class feature that gives u 100% crit
    Paladin Master Race
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    dargrotdargrot Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    burkaanc wrote: »
    its not like CW have class feature that gives u 100% crit

    /sigh ... math is not strong in this one obiwan. 4 seconds out of 20 is 20%. Now take that and eat into your normal crit chance, say you have a 40% crit chance over that same 20 seconds, 40/20=2 2*16=32 +20 = 52%. My mage has 32% base...thus my approximate at 40% (actually it is more like 45%, but my gear is good so I used 40%). As I said, they should take a sampling of the CW populations crit. chance before establishing a % off of crit. Math is your friend.
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    k9madrushk9madrush Member Posts: 534 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    Control Wizard
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
    Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).
    Renegade: Masterful Arcane Theft: Damage bonus increased to 3/6/9/12/15% on targets affected by Chill (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) and 1.2/2.4/3.6/4.8/6% per stack of Arcane Mastery (up from .6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3%).
    Renegade: Chilling Advantage: Chilling Presence increases Critical Chance by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).

    *Sigh where can I find people who knows equality and justice? I need them badly
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    nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Instigator is behind Destroyer in both defense and offense:

    - Encounter wise Destroyer IBS is ahead
    - At will Sure Strike, Destroyer is ahead
    - Determination build on Destroyer (more dps and tank), Destroyer is ahead
    - Takedown has faster CD for destroyer (so more CC option here)
    - Mighty Leap & Not so Fast has 0% use.


    There is no real use for Instigator. The path needs proper changes (I am sorry to say this but the improvements on instigator is just sloppy and will not scale vs other class premade on high GS. Please be realistic and fair)

    Make at-will damage of Instigator stronger, faster determination build or some substitution to make the build more tank or increase it's DR%.

    Both destroyer and instigator vs Range Class:

    Take down does not execute, has too many misses in high level pvp (pugs don't know how to react when GWF sprint to them). By the time stamina is down GWF gets constant CC. It's very hard to land TD > IBS in a proper premade vs ranged classes. In addition 3s stun often feels like 1s or less. Sometimes it dodges IBS even after TD executes.

    Give GWF Bull Charge or Change punishing charge on 1st hit send opponent to a prone or bring back prone on takedown. This is an absolute necessity as proven GWF is significantly behind and developers unwillingness to re-address this issue. Also make punishing charge more controllable so it ends being a viable option for encounter.

    GWF vs HR - 1v1 same GS, 18k+ HR wins
    GWF vs TR (improved damage) - 1v1 same GS, 18k+ TR wins
    GWF vs GF 1v1 same GS, 18k+ GF wins


    The difference of HP with which they win on a proper play on 18k+ GS is SIGNIFICANT :(. Overall a GWF if fighting on fight for flag node falls significantly behind on solo behind these classes.

    Sentinel Damage

    Traditional Sentinel have around 5.5k power. Please re-evaluate the damage on CAGI and DS on this power. Glass cannon build on 10k power is less tank than destroyer with lower damage.


    In PvP only, DS & CAGI should hit nearest target. Set a cap limit for power that works on CAGI and DS so viable traditional Sentinel on say, 5k-5.5k Power can have a viable tank build

    Also, WHERE IS THE GWF ADVOCATE? WHY ARE WE LEFT OUT?
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    thedarktecwarthedarktecwar Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dargrot wrote: »
    4 seconds out of 20 is 20%.

    EotS lasts 4 sec at lvl 1 and increase 1 sec for each lvl, so at max he lasts 6 sec.

    6 sec each 20 is 30% crit chance.

    I'm a renegade (16.7gs with over 8k power) on live server and i use ACT; actually in a T2 dungeon i make about 40/45% critical hit (considering i have about 35% crit chance on stats + 10% nexus + EotS) so with the new edit, storm spell would hit with about 13.5% chance (0.45 [critical chance] * 0.3 [chance to activate storm spell]). Increasing nexus to 30% critical chance will for sure increase that 13.5 to (at least) 15/16%, so almost the same as the actual.
    I think the best way to modify that skill is reduce the hit what it proc on, for example it could proc just on at will/encounters/daily and not on every DoT or chill stack...

    I made a Valindra run on preview and my dps increased about 35/40% . That could seems a lot but, actually, i end Valindra with about 10kk, in preview i made it with about 14kk, is that too much?

    I have almost 100% control in pvp (using orb of imposition) and still my control is not enough to fight fairly some other classes who are immune to control powers or have some control resistance; i think to grant a nice control (sacrifing dps) path to a cw they should increase some feat on oppressor than move Orb of imposition stats on that path.

    Maybe the nerf on Assailant will balance Renegade and Thaum damage.
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    burkaancburkaanc Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    nezraal wrote: »
    WHY ARE WE LEFT OUT?

    because devs dont care about gwf, the only time we were almost good in pve was due to a bug(mod2) they will better buff cw
    Paladin Master Race
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    juliofp70juliofp70 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Greetings Adventurers!
    There were a lot of other small improvements we wanted to make to a variety of specs, but didn’t really merit their own thread because they are fairly small and focused. Please use this thread for giving feedback on those changes.
    This thread is not for suggesting new feedback, so please constrain it to feedback on changes that are in the patch.


    Great Weapon Fighter
    • Instigator: Allied Opportunity: Damage Bonus increased to 6/12/18/24/30% (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and the Combat Advantage Duration is increased to 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds (up from 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds).
    • Instigator: Group Assault: Damage bonus increased to 2/4/6/8/10% for each additional target struck (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).
    • Instigator: Instigator's Vengeance: *Rework* Now grants 10% increased damage at all times. This value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a maximum total increase of 50%.

    Control Wizard
    • Renegade: Chaos Magic: Fury - Now grants 30% damage and 10% Life Steal (up from 10% and 5% respectively).
    • Renegade: Chaos Magic: Nexus - Now grants 30% Armor Penetration and 30% Critical Chance (up from 10%).
    • Renegade: Chaos Magic: Growth - Now heals every .5 seconds for 250% of your weapon damage (up from 200% every second).
    • Renegade: Masterful Arcane Theft: Damage bonus increased to 3/6/9/12/15% on targets affected by Chill (up from 1/2/3/4/5%) and 1.2/2.4/3.6/4.8/6% per stack of Arcane Mastery (up from .6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3%).
    • Renegade: Chilling Advantage: Chilling Presence increases Critical Chance by 2/4/6/8/10% (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).

    Hunter Ranger
    • Melee: Piercing Blade: This feat now correctly looks at post resistance damage when calculating how much damage it should deal.
    • Trapper: Swiftness of the Fox: *Rework* Your Melee encounter powers shorten the cooldown of your Ranged encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%. Your Ranged encounter powers shorten the cooldown of your Melee encounter powers by 3/6/9/12/15%.
    • Trapper: Biting Snares: Now generates 20% of your AP (up from 10%), increases your damage by 30% (up from 15%), and Control durations are increased by 60% (up from 30%).

    Scourge Warlock
    • Tyrannical Threat: The damage from this power should now benefit from Armor Penetration correctly.
    • Creeping Death: Almost all powers that deal Necrotic Damage are now correctly identified as such, and should activate this feat much more reliably.




    why CW fire is allways forgoten??? why we arent respect like the other players? all classes have advantage against us!!!! when this is gonna change?
    GF Your Personal Yeti - Strawberry Yakuza
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    zankardzankard Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dargrot wrote: »
    /sigh ... math is not strong in this one obiwan. 4 seconds out of 20 is 20%. Now take that and eat into your normal crit chance, say you have a 40% crit chance over that same 20 seconds, 40/20=2 2*16=32 +20 = 52%. My mage has 32% base...thus my approximate at 40% (actually it is more like 45%, but my gear is good so I used 40%). As I said, they should take a sampling of the CW populations crit. chance before establishing a % off of crit. Math is your friend.

    No they shouldn't take samples of the CW population, this is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. They can't tailor the game to whatever preference the current playerbase has. Perhaps if what you're saying is true, you need to work towards getting some more crit %. You are the one that needs to figure out which build works best and build towards that, not the other way around. As with every mmo, you have to constantly adapt to changes too. It drives me crazy how spoiled CWs are in this game they think they are entitled to everything.
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    rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2014
    juliofp70 wrote: »
    why CW fire is allways forgoten??? why we arent respect like the other players? all classes have advantage against us!!!! when this is gonna change?

    Because PVE-wise, Master of Flame CW can easily respec to Spellstorm and be arguably the most OP in PVE. PVE TRs and DCs on the other hand can't do much to solve their issues.
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    nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    juliofp70 wrote: »
    why CW fire is allways forgoten??? why we arent respect like the other players? all classes have advantage against us!!!! when this is gonna change?

    I think you are lacking a lot of experience. :)
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    ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    dargrot wrote: »
    Storm Spell will go from activating 20% of the time to 12% (if you have a 40% crit. chance, less if below 40%... can I have a refund on my ray of frost artifact weapon please?) . I think you should do a crit check on the CW population, see what the typical crit rate is before slapping a final % chance to activate on this modification.

    I don't know the chance to activate for Assailing Force, but this sounds like a BIG nerf... BIG

    Yes. The changes to Storm Spell and Assailing Force are indeed intended to be nerfs. Gone are the days of just holding down Ray of Frost in PvP and collecting wins.
    "Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
    i7TZDZK.gif?1
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    ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Undo the change to spell storm and nerf the damage 50-60%. Depending on crit is a kick to the balls for new players and those who are severely lacking in it.
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    helpimblindinrlhelpimblindinrl Member Posts: 972 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    You mean gone are the days of doing relevant damage. Would be nice if they gave it back somewhere.
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    magiquepursemagiquepurse Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    ironzerg79 wrote: »
    Gone are the days of just holding down Ray of Frost in PvP and collecting wins.

    That ONLY, and ONLY works against BAD, UNDERGEARED pugs.

    I am quoting Meldanen below who is completely correct.

    Do NOT touch SS and Assailant, or you destroy CW PvP relevance. We already have SERIOUS issues at BiS level vs HRs, GFs (impossible) and GWFs and TRs (near impossible).
    meldan3n wrote: »
    Leave Storm Spell as it is, leave Assailant as it is. On maxed-potential level, the CW has no chance against HRs or GWFs or TRs. And yes, this is pre-CW-nerf.
    I like the change to Orb of Imposition; giving us a choice between damage and control. Now give us an appropriate compensation in damage:

    Focused Wizardry: Single target Powers deal 20/40/60% (up from 10/20/30%) more damage,
    and triple the damage on Shard of Endless Avalanche.

    The CW is the weakest class on preview right now (and on live, if the other classes are built right).

    Any one of those incoming changes would render the CW useless. All three at the same time without an appropriate compensation - you might as well delete the class. And no, by an appropriate compensation I don't mean my suggestion. My suggestion only refers to the Orb of Imposition nerf. If you think that all those three changes are a good idea, then there should be way bigger compensations for it than what I proposed.
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    cryptfoundationcryptfoundation Member Posts: 342 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    We already have SERIOUS issues at BiS level vs HRs, GFs (impossible) and GWFs and TRs (near impossible).

    So basically you're saying that you guys shouldn't be nerfed because you're having trouble with OP classes? TRs arent a threat really, however GWF, GFs, CWs and HRs are this close to 1 rotationing people and all of them are getting a change so shouldn't we be happy?
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    jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Words from a Control wizard

    Will it be possible to cut the casting time of our spell. It takes so much time to cast a single target spell, that all the other class can trigger all their stuff before we can even finish the casting. As example if you play against an HR you try to cast Conduit of Ice he sees what you’re doing and then hurt you with whatever they want before the spell casting time is done. With GF shield down as a CW your working hard to get around them and hit them in the back, but it takes so much time for our spells to cast that they have the time to turn around and knock you prone and eventually win the fight. Same thing with TR they hit you with all they got until they see you begin you cast and hoop disappeared before your cast is finished. So CW are too easy target like that and it's not at all a fair fight. So please can you developers change this nonsense, so we can have a fair an equal fight in a PVP match and trigger our stuff as quick as the other classes.
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    szaoszao Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build)
    Control Wizard
    • Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
    • Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
    • Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
    • Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.

    Great Weapon Fighter
    • Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).

    Feedback

    Today on live server did a few rainbow party run, similar GS +-1k, my CW (built around stormspell, assilant) was outdamaged by HR, SW, GWF.
    Dont know if there was a ninjanerf or not, but please leave stormspell, assilant as it is now.
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