So basically you're saying that you guys shouldn't be nerfed because you're having trouble with OP classes? TRs arent a threat really, however GWF, GFs, CWs and HRs are this close to 1 rotationing people and all of them are getting a change so shouldn't we be happy?
- On Live, TRs can almost one-rotation a BiS CW with a Bloodbath/CoS spam with Reds, of course, before the CW can even react. On Preview, a TR can RELIABLY one shot CWs with Lashing.
- GWFs can one-rotation on Live with Intimidation. Other builds do just as fine against CWs because of Unstoppable and Sprint and lots of DR, which leads to the GWF being Immune to CC like 90% of the time. Didn't test on Preview yet.
- GF is full impossible. 55-65K HP, Immune to CC with Shield (almost perma) up. Tenebrous reflect builds, Power KC builds, doesn't matter. CW DPS looks like a bad joke vs this class.
- HR can one-rotation people especially with reds, which most HRs switched to. The PB nerf should help mostly tanky classes, and not CWs.
Reds will still hit for significant DPS. I was getting 400-500 hits against a BiS DC instead of 600, umm yeah.
Basically the CW is powerful vs worse CWs and SWs and when they get to outnumber you and CC you.
If we are to nerf the CW like this, we need to compensate.
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build) Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Hello gentleman,
I will try to be constructive on each CW change or asking question before.
1 i see that you up the capstone of renegade and that a good point making it more in same choice lvl thant actual other capston
2 chilling advantage: the problem is less chilling advandage than chilling presence: when you putted a timer on ice stack one month ago(to block the perma freeze). it destroyed this passive feat by reducing is power by almost 50%(during the 4 second when you canno't stack chill of course this power add 0 damage). now on fact he give barelly 5% extra damage + he seems to not apply in some power.
3 Storm spell: i would like you to confirm one point that can destroy this feat or not: long time ago, i made test on over time damage spell, I saw that when they critic on the begining all damage where critic but you had only one critic count. So to speak, if i got 50% crit chance, is the new storm spell have 15% chance to proc only on the begining or is it 15% each time it deal damage (so each new damage have a chance to crit and are independant). As you can understand, the second case still give a way to use this feat, the first case simply make it useless by reducing this power proc chance by more than 80%
4 Assaillant: actually i would like you to confirm the change. is the change is we still get a chance to get assaillant by dealing damage but now we will need to launch an encounter to discharge it or the change is the way we get assaillant (now we have only a chance to get it by launching an encounter)
5 orb of imposition + glacial movement: good change oppressor way was destroyed when you putted a timer on chill stack.
i hope that you will have time to answer since you have a big work on DC and TR
I've been testing this tree on Lair of Lostmauth, and I wanna say that you are making a good job.
I got some points I wanna tell you to get better the role of this tree:
Roots are really useful for pve, but at distance, i only got constricting arrow for AOE effect, and this skill has a small AOE. Suggestion: Constricting arrow needs more range. One more AoE root skill would be awesome, hindering shot could be reworked to this role.
Roots need too stack up and refresh when it stacks. Suggestion: If you put one stack on it, rangers would be able to control more time and it will turn trapper useful. When weak grasping roots stack, turn strong grasping roots then thorned roots.
Roots can't stun mobs, ranged mobs will keep attacking, that's the reason for asking this changes.
Increase the defense to trappers come close mobs and keep up alive. Suggestion: The feat Serpent's bite has two effects, the second one could be replaced to provide 5% demage resistance per stack. This feat is one of the final choices, and only trapper would be able to use it.
Damage needs some love on this tree. Sugestion: Increase the base damage of hunter rangers on rooted mobs, like 4% on weak grasping roots, 8% on strong and 12% on thorned, or the way you think is better.
So basically you're saying that you guys shouldn't be nerfed because you're having trouble with OP classes? TRs arent a threat really, however GWF, GFs, CWs and HRs are this close to 1 rotationing people and all of them are getting a change so shouldn't we be happy?
You don't know how TRs and DCs are going to be after this whole rework. I also think that for CWs to get nerfed in terms of DPS, you should allow a path for them to control (reversing the recent nerfs and proposed changes) as well as give them survivability (ie increase their stride and amount of dodges).
Then we can have two paths for CWs DPS and/or Control.
Yes. The changes to Storm Spell and Assailing Force are indeed intended to be nerfs. Gone are the days of just holding down Ray of Frost in PvP and collecting wins.
Then nerf CWs on pvp. I don't really care. Just don't nerf it on pve.
They made Assailing do half damage for players on pvp already they can do it with storm spell as well.
They could make Assailing make half damage for players on pvp.
Doesn't it already do this?
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
edited October 2014
Feedback: Trapper
Coming back from a first test run soloing Heroic encounters in Dwarven Valley. The gameplay is much more fluid now with the changes to Swiftness of the Fox and the feeling is back to Mod3 rangers.
I can rotate encounter powers in PVE almost seamlessly and for the first time I feel that I can finally hang my Royal Guard set to the wall and strap on my Corrupted Black Ice gear and in future the new M5 Templar set(and this is good, believe me). At the moment I can use only one rooting power (Hindering Strike is my favourite) and get the capstone bonuses up for most of the time.
This opens a quite interesting playstile where you can closely cooperate with a GF or CW in keeping monsters in a tight area that you navigate through with Fox Shift and pepper with Rain of Arrows.
The main issue I see, is that the Trapper is as squishy as hell in melee. If you can keep up your rotation everything works fine, as you can refresh Fox Shift as an emergency button, but as soon as you get interrupted in melee range you´re in deep trouble.
Other melee classes/trees usually have a feature helping them (Unstoppable, Guard, Stealth/Impossible to Catch, Wilds Medicine) but the Trapper doesn´t have it (rooting enemies doesn´t stop them from attacking you). Even my warlock feels better in that sense that I can sprint out for quite a distance if things get really nasty.
I looked at using some passive skill to improve that, but basically you need to slot Aspect of the Serpent and Aspect of the Lone Wolf to respectively improve your damage and not to be killed everytime you enter melee range so there´s not much to do there.
Suggestion: drastically reduce the activation time of Forest Ghost. It takes forever to activate, even longer than the animation itself (you have to wait for the cooldown to start to be sure it works and that starts quite some time after the animation is over), to the point that I gave up using it in PVE because it's more likely I get killed trying to activate it than rather simply running away.
Substituting Readied Stance with a feat reducing the activation time of Forest Ghost would be a good solution. Trapper generates AP quite fast now by rotating encounters so 5% extra AP don´t help much.
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
@gentlemancrush
With new changed to TR on dodge you finally broke the seal of how dodging works. So could you please now fix HRs to be longer? Cause in real life you need 2 dodges to get away from red zone. Sometimes more. HR rely on dodge as our defense. We don't have stealth as a save button.
Yet still our tab - for Archer and Combat is pretty useless.
2nd note - please take a look at HR encounters. we do need some buff /rework on how they all work with all changes to mod 4/5 paths. At the same time trapper roots need more distance and area since they are low area effects now.
3nd note -please consider making WM as t1/t2 feet in combat while having max stacks on 3-5. This will give trappers possible suitability and will not hurt much combat HRs - since with 1 sec ICD you put it is still around 5-6 top anyway. 10 is impossible to reach in 99% of cases. If you feel like it will be much decrease - please change deflection chance from 2.5% to deflection severity - 10%. Since now this is useless feet anyway.
No they shouldn't take samples of the CW population, this is the most illogical thing I've ever heard. They can't tailor the game to whatever preference the current playerbase has. Perhaps if what you're saying is true, you need to work towards getting some more crit %. You are the one that needs to figure out which build works best and build towards that, not the other way around. As with every mmo, you have to constantly adapt to changes too. It drives me crazy how spoiled CWs are in this game they think they are entitled to everything.
Even if I stacked crit on my CW at the expense of all other stats. . it is very hard to go above 40% because of diminishing returns. (only eye of the storm really gives you over 40%) realistically, and if I did, it would be a value approximating 41-42 percent. And per your insinuation, I suppose we should use GS 20k's CW's instead of the more normal stat distribution? There is nothing illogical in my proposal, take the norm, and establish the nerf per the norm... It is a nerf... fine. But be sure to use numbers and not "eyeball" guestimates... THAT is illogical. And based on the changes I have seen since release, "eyeball" guestimates seem to be the norm.
Critical Chance % = 0.05+StatBonus+FeatBonus+0.288*CriticalStrike^1.2/(LevelConstant+CriticalStrike^1.2) ...where the level constant for level 60 is between 10185 and 10187.
Do the math yourself "Mr. Spock"
SO many of you have to go back to school.... seriously.
Will it be possible to cut the casting time of our spell. It takes so much time to cast a single target spell, that all the other class can trigger all their stuff before we can even finish the casting. As example if you play against an HR you try to cast Conduit of Ice he sees what you’re doing and then hurt you with whatever they want before the spell casting time is done. With GF shield down as a CW your working hard to get around them and hit them in the back, but it takes so much time for our spells to cast that they have the time to turn around and knock you prone and eventually win the fight. Same thing with TR they hit you with all they got until they see you begin you cast and hoop disappeared before your cast is finished. So CW are too easy target like that and it's not at all a fair fight. So please can you developers change this nonsense, so we can have a fair an equal fight in a PVP match and trigger our stuff as quick as the other classes.
Excellent point! Even in the PnP game, spells are not interrupted anymore... same "cast time" as melee or non magical ranged attacks. I find Conduit of Ice especially irritating.
Some GWF at-will attacks could also probably be made to inflict a little more damage than they do currently. Or GWFs could receive a double damage boost for high Strength. At the same time, the stun durations of Frontline Surge and Takedown also present issues; they are excessively long at base levels, but they can also be deflected, which reduces their duration to nearly nil. This means GWFs can perform very well against characters with low deflection, but can experience significant issues inflicting damage to high-deflection characters.
+1. Even similarly geared a GWF loses alot of potential because of highly inferior AoE capabilities compared to that of a HR/CW/SW in PvE. Increase threat and it's possible but you can't have the best of both worlds. If you try to do a hybrid build of DPS/Tank you will just end up being worse than everyone. Our gear and feats do not support the playstyle. GWF is single target DPS with focus on kite tanking. Increase base damage of at-wills so GWF can focus on what they do best: taking down big targets and supporting the GF with tanking.
As far as the stun I can't say I've tested. FLS seems to stun for a total of .5 seconds leaving usually enough time to get in one additional encounter. Since the prone nerf there is no real control for the GWF, it barely exists. I have not tested on low deflect characters so perhaps it needs to be tweaked. I do not however feel the GWF deserves anymore CC than a split second stun as it is now. I think it should stay the same.
Excellent point! Even in the PnP game, spells are not interrupted anymore... same "cast time" as melee or non magical ranged attacks. I find Conduit of Ice especially irritating.
Hah yah it's pretty bad. Perhaps they should increase distance of Teleport by 25-40% and/or tweak casting time on obvious offenders. This should allow the CW the ability to use guerilla warfare tactics that HR/GWF/TR abuse. If you should notice your attack being countered the CW can egress/regress.
Not only does that promote skill and tactics, but allows a naturally squishy class to mitigate damage by proxy, avoiding something as potentially devastating as a flat buff or ability.
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mortahlMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 8Arc User
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build) Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
[/list]
Please make sure Glacial Movement still supports icy rays. It's fine to stack two benefits, but there are people that like the bonus chill of icy rays. It's a single target quick chill for those who don't go with the aoe of Chilling Cloud. Otherwise, I like that you are forcing people to be oppressor if they want the higher control.
True, but on the other side doesn't SW have more heal than the DC now ?
That will change for those who spec through the new "Healing" paragon coming in Mod 5; cray stupid heals. whether it's really needed because of the state of Life Steal and whatnot: who knows how viable it will be. But it will certainly put the DC back into the top-slot for healing.
The new DPS "Righteous" path is amazing. As it is *right now* on Preview: DCs will give TRs and SW, and possibly even CWs a run for their money in the DPS department. No, they aren;t THAT powerful, but they are definitely bing brought up-to-par to be crazy competitive. (All this stuff is painfully overdue, of course).
I have one of every class and have been playing them all. So far they all feel about right, except the TR and DC (on Live as of right now). Admittedly I am not a min-maxer, and even though I call myself a "casual" player I do know each class very well and can usually hold my own in Solo and PvE (I don't bother with PvP myself).
I suspect when they say "class balance" Cryptic is probably referring as much to "balanced class" and much as "class balance" - and with so many player variables amongst the population they can only bring it so far. From where I stand it's looking pretty good as a general rule of thumb.
PvP on the other hand is another basterdostepchild all by itself, though.
kurankanmeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited October 2014
Great Weapon Fighter
Instigator: Allied Opportunity: Damage Bonus increased to 6/12/18/24/30% (up from 2/4/6/8/10%) and the Combat Advantage Duration is increased to 1.5/3/4.5/6/7.5 seconds (up from 1/1.5/2/2.5/3 seconds).
Instigator: Group Assault: Damage bonus increased to 2/4/6/8/10% for each additional target struck (up from 1/2/3/4/5%).
Instigator: Instigator's Vengeance: *Rework* Now grants 10% increased damage at all times. This value is increased by 10% each time you are struck in combat, up to a maximum total increase of 50%.
I almost feel as if the *rework* should be for destroyer.
Bug Report: Guard Guard (known as Block) is supposed to block 80% of all incoming damage with the remaining 20% being affected by dr and tenacity. Since the October 2nd patch and this patch on preview Guard no longer respects our dr and tenacity on the remaining 20% so for me this means I am taking almost 3 times more damage through block in pvp(dr + tenacity=62% which is roughly 12% on top of the 80%) and 2 times more in pve. This was not mentioned in any patch notes that block was being changed please fix this asap as this is also currently a problem on live as well.
EDIT: Also This issue may be due to that tenacity is not being applied in pvp as critical strike seem to be doing far more damage than they should after some act testing.
Yes. The changes to Storm Spell and Assailing Force are indeed intended to be nerfs. Gone are the days of just holding down Ray of Frost in PvP and collecting wins.
Bug Report: Guard Guard (known as Block) is supposed to block 80% of all incoming damage with the remaining 20% being affected by dr and tenacity. Since the October 2nd patch and this patch on preview Guard no longer respects our dr and tenacity on the remaining 20% so for me this means I am taking almost 3 times more damage through block in pvp(dr + tenacity=72% which is roughly 14% on top of the 80%) and 2 times more in pve. This was not mentioned in any patch notes that block was being changed please fix this asap as this is also currently a problem on live as well.
What if you have only 14% of remaining 20% that has applied tenancy?
What i mean is - you get 1000 hit. 800 is blocked. 200 is base value for damage applied calculation.
200 * (1-0.14) = 172 damage recived
whether by your explanation
1000 - 1000 * (0.8 +0.14) = 60. Pretty much x2-3 you are talking about due to simplified formula used.
So it may be respecting everything. You just got wrong calculation formula.
New Changes! (Not in the 10/10 Preview build) Control Wizard
Storm Spell: Chance to activate increased to 30%, but can only trigger on critical hits now.
Thaumaturge: Assailing Force: The damage from this power is now activated by Encounter powers rather than all damage.
Orb of Imposition: This class feature has been reverted to a previous state where it grants 5% increased control duration per rank.
Oppressor: Glacial Movement: This feat now increases the effectiveness of each rank of Orb of Imposition by 4/8/12/16/20%.
Great Weapon Fighter
Sentinel: Intimidation: This feat now deals 7/14/21/28/35% of your Power in damage (down from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Guys it would be better u remove GWF from the game..rather than u guys taking pain on how to nerf him..so take my advice and remove that character completely and screw the game ..thank you
Guys it would be better u remove GWF from the game..rather than u guys taking pain on how to nerf him..so take my advice and remove that character completely and screw the game ..thank you
The changes applied are not nerfs. They simply make Instigator capstone an appreciable goal and adds an additional build to the GWF repertoire. How is that bad?
I main GWF and, for the most part, not been having many issues. I fail to see how an Instigator tree buff would affect that any worse if not make it better. It seems to me that the GWFs largest problem is decreased RoIs on DPS compared to CW/HR/SW.
In retrospect, a lot of our encounters and base damage have been nerfed as well as losing combat mechanics and a general lack of anything beyond stacking Damage or Defense, again, with lower returns for value as per a class of similarly stacked min/max BiS.
Still - the GWF provides a role that no others can provide: bruiser. We can sorta tank. We can still dish out respectable damage. All in all I see no major problems with the class, but a few changes beyond Instigator buff would be very welcomed.
Even if I stacked crit on my CW at the expense of all other stats. . it is very hard to go above 40% because of diminishing returns. (only eye of the storm really gives you over 40%) realistically, and if I did, it would be a value approximating 41-42 percent. And per your insinuation, I suppose we should use GS 20k's CW's instead of the more normal stat distribution? There is nothing illogical in my proposal, take the norm, and establish the nerf per the norm... It is a nerf... fine. But be sure to use numbers and not "eyeball" guestimates... THAT is illogical. And based on the changes I have seen since release, "eyeball" guestimates seem to be the norm.
Critical Chance % = 0.05+StatBonus+FeatBonus+0.288*CriticalStrike^1.2/(LevelConstant+CriticalStrike^1.2) ...where the level constant for level 60 is between 10185 and 10187.
Do the math yourself "Mr. Spock"
SO many of you have to go back to school.... seriously.
the problem is neither how much crit lvl you can get. the problem is neither getting 30 - 40 or 50 % crit and get a 35-30-25 % nerf. i'm waiting this to be implement to be sure but, here two point :
1 some damage are flat and do not critical (weapon power like spell plague enchant, some feat like the t4 thauma feat that proc some damage over 12 second, some campaign or set bonus. all areflat damage that not critical)
2 over time spell like ice conduct or icy terrain only do critical when launch and the damage during all spell are based on a critical damage but it not an other critcal hit(it based on an old test i made 6 month ago so it may have change).
the first part represent alone a loss between 15 up to 50% damage on storm spell
the second part is if you play with steal time, ice conduc and icy terrain, you pass from medium 20 hit per rotation to 4 hit on your encounter so you are passing from 4 proc to 0.66% proc on your full rotation (85 % loss)
mixt it with the change done on assaillant and you get around 50 % of total dps loss maybe 60%. but it come worth than that due to the change the t4 feat from thauma that can proc creeping from is doing so low damage that is only interest was to get chance to proc assaillant and storm spell.
Not finished yet. due to that it wonderable to still remain with storm spell and thauma way so is wonderable to use that t4 general feat that give you +30 single damage -10 aoe damage. you will remove that to gain a little more dps on you aoe spell mean you are losing 30 % more on your single target spell.
That mean you ended for a 17 k gs CW with encounter that are doing less that 4 k damage (execpt lighting for 6-7k )
Since 1 bar life mob on IWD have 6.5 k life mean i only have one encounter that is able to kill a mere trash mob.
but cumulated to that you get one last problem with life steath. you won't do now enough damage to get back your life bar. it was already in some case problematic on live (since you play with over time spell) pretty sure it will be deadly on test server.
I nor even enter on pvp part neitheir on the kikimeter efficiency for dongeon, just make the point with a 17 k gs CW to do daily and solo quest. it even wonderable how fresh lvl 60 CW will do sharandar and terror since most of them will do 2.5 less damage than my actual CW ( it will probably fun to play with 1.5 k damage encounter and be happy to do 5-6 k when you get chance to stay alive and put 10 second to be sure to put all debuf possiblity and get a critical hit.
the real problem with storm spell and assaillant is not how much they are efficient but how can the rest can be so poor damage (because storm spell and assaillant damage are not dependant from the other spell power)
ice conduct 500 damage per second for 6 second, icy terrain 500 damage per second for 10 second. steal time: 4 k damage. default icy ray: 3 k
the actual CW storm spell is not overpowered compared to other class if you run dongeon where there is more elite mob but less quantity. it appens many time for me to be over dps by HR and SW on tuern and LOL. but on CN or t2 dongeon yes here CW rise since there is such a quantity of mob you can plently use aoe spell and class that have the most aoe spell must rise their. but i'm sorry to say that but neverwinter is not only CN and t2 dongeon.
If thing goes as i suspect CW will simply be unplayable (and on opposite of the v4 previous, i honestly don't see any playable option)
The changes applied are not nerfs. They simply make Instigator capstone an appreciable goal and adds an additional build to the GWF repertoire. How is that bad?
I main GWF and, for the most part, not been having many issues. I fail to see how an Instigator tree buff would affect that any worse if not make it better. It seems to me that the GWFs largest problem is decreased RoIs on DPS compared to CW/HR/SW.
In retrospect, a lot of our encounters and base damage have been nerfed as well as losing combat mechanics and a general lack of anything beyond stacking Damage or Defense, again, with lower returns for value as per a class of similarly stacked min/max BiS.
Still - the GWF provides a role that no others can provide: bruiser. We can sorta tank. We can still dish out respectable damage. All in all I see no major problems with the class, but a few changes beyond Instigator buff would be very welcomed.
intimidaton is a nerf, and instigator changes are contradictory, boring, and insufficient to compete with arcane ballerina or the necrophile in pve.
I'm going to say this one last time and then I'm out of this section. I wont be testing or giving any more feedback because the devs seems to wanna take the CW in a different direction, a direction that does not suit me at all. I am not happy at all with the CW right now.
1. Damage needs to be moved from passives like Stormspell to our encounters so that it will be a more fun class to play where you actually have to work for the damage you do.
2. The shard needs a damage buff for PvP because right now everyone seem to run the exactly same encounters and its boring. We need some alternatives so the fights gets more interesting. The shard CW is very much missed in PvP. I played 200 matches since M4 was released and I think I've seen one or two random pug CWs running the shard. Nobody else. BORING.
3. We have some OP classes in this game and now when you actually nerfed the HR a bit with the Piercing Blade Feat you still have unbalance because you keep nerfing the rest of us too at the same time.
Right now the CW is at the bottom of the foodchain, maybe the SW is below us in PvP. I know the CW is dealing good damage right now on live but the problem is that its to EASY to deal the damage. We need to bring some skill back to the class. We do not need more damage nerfs. I think we might even need a small damage buff BUT only if you bring some skill back to the class at the same time.
Comments
- On Live, TRs can almost one-rotation a BiS CW with a Bloodbath/CoS spam with Reds, of course, before the CW can even react. On Preview, a TR can RELIABLY one shot CWs with Lashing.
- GWFs can one-rotation on Live with Intimidation. Other builds do just as fine against CWs because of Unstoppable and Sprint and lots of DR, which leads to the GWF being Immune to CC like 90% of the time. Didn't test on Preview yet.
- GF is full impossible. 55-65K HP, Immune to CC with Shield (almost perma) up. Tenebrous reflect builds, Power KC builds, doesn't matter. CW DPS looks like a bad joke vs this class.
- HR can one-rotation people especially with reds, which most HRs switched to. The PB nerf should help mostly tanky classes, and not CWs.
Reds will still hit for significant DPS. I was getting 400-500 hits against a BiS DC instead of 600, umm yeah.
Basically the CW is powerful vs worse CWs and SWs and when they get to outnumber you and CC you.
If we are to nerf the CW like this, we need to compensate.
Bring Shard and SKILLFUL PLAY back, please.
Hello gentleman,
I will try to be constructive on each CW change or asking question before.
1 i see that you up the capstone of renegade and that a good point making it more in same choice lvl thant actual other capston
2 chilling advantage: the problem is less chilling advandage than chilling presence: when you putted a timer on ice stack one month ago(to block the perma freeze). it destroyed this passive feat by reducing is power by almost 50%(during the 4 second when you canno't stack chill of course this power add 0 damage). now on fact he give barelly 5% extra damage + he seems to not apply in some power.
3 Storm spell: i would like you to confirm one point that can destroy this feat or not: long time ago, i made test on over time damage spell, I saw that when they critic on the begining all damage where critic but you had only one critic count. So to speak, if i got 50% crit chance, is the new storm spell have 15% chance to proc only on the begining or is it 15% each time it deal damage (so each new damage have a chance to crit and are independant). As you can understand, the second case still give a way to use this feat, the first case simply make it useless by reducing this power proc chance by more than 80%
4 Assaillant: actually i would like you to confirm the change. is the change is we still get a chance to get assaillant by dealing damage but now we will need to launch an encounter to discharge it or the change is the way we get assaillant (now we have only a chance to get it by launching an encounter)
5 orb of imposition + glacial movement: good change oppressor way was destroyed when you putted a timer on chill stack.
i hope that you will have time to answer since you have a big work on DC and TR
regards
I've been testing this tree on Lair of Lostmauth, and I wanna say that you are making a good job.
I got some points I wanna tell you to get better the role of this tree:
Roots are really useful for pve, but at distance, i only got constricting arrow for AOE effect, and this skill has a small AOE. Suggestion: Constricting arrow needs more range. One more AoE root skill would be awesome, hindering shot could be reworked to this role.
Roots need too stack up and refresh when it stacks. Suggestion: If you put one stack on it, rangers would be able to control more time and it will turn trapper useful. When weak grasping roots stack, turn strong grasping roots then thorned roots.
Roots can't stun mobs, ranged mobs will keep attacking, that's the reason for asking this changes.
Increase the defense to trappers come close mobs and keep up alive. Suggestion: The feat Serpent's bite has two effects, the second one could be replaced to provide 5% demage resistance per stack. This feat is one of the final choices, and only trapper would be able to use it.
Damage needs some love on this tree. Sugestion: Increase the base damage of hunter rangers on rooted mobs, like 4% on weak grasping roots, 8% on strong and 12% on thorned, or the way you think is better.
I'd like to thanks for your great job. see you.
Its 6 sec out of 20 and CWs should do big shooters like Ice Knife and sudden storm when they see eye of the storm and those don't utilize storm spell.
I won't make dots like coi or icy terrain to waste my 6 sec for procing storm spells.
You don't know how TRs and DCs are going to be after this whole rework. I also think that for CWs to get nerfed in terms of DPS, you should allow a path for them to control (reversing the recent nerfs and proposed changes) as well as give them survivability (ie increase their stride and amount of dodges).
Then we can have two paths for CWs DPS and/or Control.
Then nerf CWs on pvp. I don't really care. Just don't nerf it on pve.
They made Assailing do half damage for players on pvp already they can do it with storm spell as well.
...You do know that its 6 seconds, right?
Edit:
Doesn't it already do this?
Coming back from a first test run soloing Heroic encounters in Dwarven Valley. The gameplay is much more fluid now with the changes to Swiftness of the Fox and the feeling is back to Mod3 rangers.
I can rotate encounter powers in PVE almost seamlessly and for the first time I feel that I can finally hang my Royal Guard set to the wall and strap on my Corrupted Black Ice gear and in future the new M5 Templar set(and this is good, believe me). At the moment I can use only one rooting power (Hindering Strike is my favourite) and get the capstone bonuses up for most of the time.
This opens a quite interesting playstile where you can closely cooperate with a GF or CW in keeping monsters in a tight area that you navigate through with Fox Shift and pepper with Rain of Arrows.
The main issue I see, is that the Trapper is as squishy as hell in melee. If you can keep up your rotation everything works fine, as you can refresh Fox Shift as an emergency button, but as soon as you get interrupted in melee range you´re in deep trouble.
Other melee classes/trees usually have a feature helping them (Unstoppable, Guard, Stealth/Impossible to Catch, Wilds Medicine) but the Trapper doesn´t have it (rooting enemies doesn´t stop them from attacking you). Even my warlock feels better in that sense that I can sprint out for quite a distance if things get really nasty.
I looked at using some passive skill to improve that, but basically you need to slot Aspect of the Serpent and Aspect of the Lone Wolf to respectively improve your damage and not to be killed everytime you enter melee range so there´s not much to do there.
Suggestion: drastically reduce the activation time of Forest Ghost. It takes forever to activate, even longer than the animation itself (you have to wait for the cooldown to start to be sure it works and that starts quite some time after the animation is over), to the point that I gave up using it in PVE because it's more likely I get killed trying to activate it than rather simply running away.
Substituting Readied Stance with a feat reducing the activation time of Forest Ghost would be a good solution. Trapper generates AP quite fast now by rotating encounters so 5% extra AP don´t help much.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
With new changed to TR on dodge you finally broke the seal of how dodging works. So could you please now fix HRs to be longer? Cause in real life you need 2 dodges to get away from red zone. Sometimes more. HR rely on dodge as our defense. We don't have stealth as a save button.
Yet still our tab - for Archer and Combat is pretty useless.
2nd note - please take a look at HR encounters. we do need some buff /rework on how they all work with all changes to mod 4/5 paths. At the same time trapper roots need more distance and area since they are low area effects now.
3nd note -please consider making WM as t1/t2 feet in combat while having max stacks on 3-5. This will give trappers possible suitability and will not hurt much combat HRs - since with 1 sec ICD you put it is still around 5-6 top anyway. 10 is impossible to reach in 99% of cases. If you feel like it will be much decrease - please change deflection chance from 2.5% to deflection severity - 10%. Since now this is useless feet anyway.
Even if I stacked crit on my CW at the expense of all other stats. . it is very hard to go above 40% because of diminishing returns. (only eye of the storm really gives you over 40%) realistically, and if I did, it would be a value approximating 41-42 percent. And per your insinuation, I suppose we should use GS 20k's CW's instead of the more normal stat distribution? There is nothing illogical in my proposal, take the norm, and establish the nerf per the norm... It is a nerf... fine. But be sure to use numbers and not "eyeball" guestimates... THAT is illogical. And based on the changes I have seen since release, "eyeball" guestimates seem to be the norm.
Critical Chance % = 0.05+StatBonus+FeatBonus+0.288*CriticalStrike^1.2/(LevelConstant+CriticalStrike^1.2) ...where the level constant for level 60 is between 10185 and 10187.
Do the math yourself "Mr. Spock"
SO many of you have to go back to school.... seriously.
Excellent point! Even in the PnP game, spells are not interrupted anymore... same "cast time" as melee or non magical ranged attacks. I find Conduit of Ice especially irritating.
+1. Even similarly geared a GWF loses alot of potential because of highly inferior AoE capabilities compared to that of a HR/CW/SW in PvE. Increase threat and it's possible but you can't have the best of both worlds. If you try to do a hybrid build of DPS/Tank you will just end up being worse than everyone. Our gear and feats do not support the playstyle. GWF is single target DPS with focus on kite tanking. Increase base damage of at-wills so GWF can focus on what they do best: taking down big targets and supporting the GF with tanking.
As far as the stun I can't say I've tested. FLS seems to stun for a total of .5 seconds leaving usually enough time to get in one additional encounter. Since the prone nerf there is no real control for the GWF, it barely exists. I have not tested on low deflect characters so perhaps it needs to be tweaked. I do not however feel the GWF deserves anymore CC than a split second stun as it is now. I think it should stay the same.
Hah yah it's pretty bad. Perhaps they should increase distance of Teleport by 25-40% and/or tweak casting time on obvious offenders. This should allow the CW the ability to use guerilla warfare tactics that HR/GWF/TR abuse. If you should notice your attack being countered the CW can egress/regress.
Not only does that promote skill and tactics, but allows a naturally squishy class to mitigate damage by proxy, avoiding something as potentially devastating as a flat buff or ability.
Please make sure Glacial Movement still supports icy rays. It's fine to stack two benefits, but there are people that like the bonus chill of icy rays. It's a single target quick chill for those who don't go with the aoe of Chilling Cloud. Otherwise, I like that you are forcing people to be oppressor if they want the higher control.
what's the Pros and Cons ?
what exactaly change in this view ?
Regards .
I'd like to see the bonus moved to a more power-neutral feat. Not everyone uses RoF.
Good candidates (in the T3-T5 range) would be:
- Capstone (obviously)
- Controlled Momentum
- Cold Infusion
There seems to be no reason to tie a generic Oppressor effect to a specific power feat.
Thanks!
True, but on the other side doesn't SW have more heal than the DC now ?
Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
That will change for those who spec through the new "Healing" paragon coming in Mod 5; cray stupid heals. whether it's really needed because of the state of Life Steal and whatnot: who knows how viable it will be. But it will certainly put the DC back into the top-slot for healing.
The new DPS "Righteous" path is amazing. As it is *right now* on Preview: DCs will give TRs and SW, and possibly even CWs a run for their money in the DPS department. No, they aren;t THAT powerful, but they are definitely bing brought up-to-par to be crazy competitive. (All this stuff is painfully overdue, of course).
I have one of every class and have been playing them all. So far they all feel about right, except the TR and DC (on Live as of right now). Admittedly I am not a min-maxer, and even though I call myself a "casual" player I do know each class very well and can usually hold my own in Solo and PvE (I don't bother with PvP myself).
I suspect when they say "class balance" Cryptic is probably referring as much to "balanced class" and much as "class balance" - and with so many player variables amongst the population they can only bring it so far. From where I stand it's looking pretty good as a general rule of thumb.
PvP on the other hand is another basterdostepchild all by itself, though.
I almost feel as if the *rework* should be for destroyer.
Guard (known as Block) is supposed to block 80% of all incoming damage with the remaining 20% being affected by dr and tenacity. Since the October 2nd patch and this patch on preview Guard no longer respects our dr and tenacity on the remaining 20% so for me this means I am taking almost 3 times more damage through block in pvp(dr + tenacity=62% which is roughly 12% on top of the 80%) and 2 times more in pve. This was not mentioned in any patch notes that block was being changed please fix this asap as this is also currently a problem on live as well.
EDIT: Also This issue may be due to that tenacity is not being applied in pvp as critical strike seem to be doing far more damage than they should after some act testing.
Nah, people have been playing PVP HRs for that.
What if you have only 14% of remaining 20% that has applied tenancy?
What i mean is - you get 1000 hit. 800 is blocked. 200 is base value for damage applied calculation.
200 * (1-0.14) = 172 damage recived
whether by your explanation
1000 - 1000 * (0.8 +0.14) = 60. Pretty much x2-3 you are talking about due to simplified formula used.
So it may be respecting everything. You just got wrong calculation formula.
Guys it would be better u remove GWF from the game..rather than u guys taking pain on how to nerf him..so take my advice and remove that character completely and screw the game ..thank you
The changes applied are not nerfs. They simply make Instigator capstone an appreciable goal and adds an additional build to the GWF repertoire. How is that bad?
I main GWF and, for the most part, not been having many issues. I fail to see how an Instigator tree buff would affect that any worse if not make it better. It seems to me that the GWFs largest problem is decreased RoIs on DPS compared to CW/HR/SW.
In retrospect, a lot of our encounters and base damage have been nerfed as well as losing combat mechanics and a general lack of anything beyond stacking Damage or Defense, again, with lower returns for value as per a class of similarly stacked min/max BiS.
Still - the GWF provides a role that no others can provide: bruiser. We can sorta tank. We can still dish out respectable damage. All in all I see no major problems with the class, but a few changes beyond Instigator buff would be very welcomed.
the problem is neither how much crit lvl you can get. the problem is neither getting 30 - 40 or 50 % crit and get a 35-30-25 % nerf. i'm waiting this to be implement to be sure but, here two point :
1 some damage are flat and do not critical (weapon power like spell plague enchant, some feat like the t4 thauma feat that proc some damage over 12 second, some campaign or set bonus. all areflat damage that not critical)
2 over time spell like ice conduct or icy terrain only do critical when launch and the damage during all spell are based on a critical damage but it not an other critcal hit(it based on an old test i made 6 month ago so it may have change).
the first part represent alone a loss between 15 up to 50% damage on storm spell
the second part is if you play with steal time, ice conduc and icy terrain, you pass from medium 20 hit per rotation to 4 hit on your encounter so you are passing from 4 proc to 0.66% proc on your full rotation (85 % loss)
mixt it with the change done on assaillant and you get around 50 % of total dps loss maybe 60%. but it come worth than that due to the change the t4 feat from thauma that can proc creeping from is doing so low damage that is only interest was to get chance to proc assaillant and storm spell.
Not finished yet. due to that it wonderable to still remain with storm spell and thauma way so is wonderable to use that t4 general feat that give you +30 single damage -10 aoe damage. you will remove that to gain a little more dps on you aoe spell mean you are losing 30 % more on your single target spell.
That mean you ended for a 17 k gs CW with encounter that are doing less that 4 k damage (execpt lighting for 6-7k )
Since 1 bar life mob on IWD have 6.5 k life mean i only have one encounter that is able to kill a mere trash mob.
but cumulated to that you get one last problem with life steath. you won't do now enough damage to get back your life bar. it was already in some case problematic on live (since you play with over time spell) pretty sure it will be deadly on test server.
I nor even enter on pvp part neitheir on the kikimeter efficiency for dongeon, just make the point with a 17 k gs CW to do daily and solo quest. it even wonderable how fresh lvl 60 CW will do sharandar and terror since most of them will do 2.5 less damage than my actual CW ( it will probably fun to play with 1.5 k damage encounter and be happy to do 5-6 k when you get chance to stay alive and put 10 second to be sure to put all debuf possiblity and get a critical hit.
the real problem with storm spell and assaillant is not how much they are efficient but how can the rest can be so poor damage (because storm spell and assaillant damage are not dependant from the other spell power)
ice conduct 500 damage per second for 6 second, icy terrain 500 damage per second for 10 second. steal time: 4 k damage. default icy ray: 3 k
the actual CW storm spell is not overpowered compared to other class if you run dongeon where there is more elite mob but less quantity. it appens many time for me to be over dps by HR and SW on tuern and LOL. but on CN or t2 dongeon yes here CW rise since there is such a quantity of mob you can plently use aoe spell and class that have the most aoe spell must rise their. but i'm sorry to say that but neverwinter is not only CN and t2 dongeon.
If thing goes as i suspect CW will simply be unplayable (and on opposite of the v4 previous, i honestly don't see any playable option)
intimidaton is a nerf, and instigator changes are contradictory, boring, and insufficient to compete with arcane ballerina or the necrophile in pve.
1. Damage needs to be moved from passives like Stormspell to our encounters so that it will be a more fun class to play where you actually have to work for the damage you do.
2. The shard needs a damage buff for PvP because right now everyone seem to run the exactly same encounters and its boring. We need some alternatives so the fights gets more interesting. The shard CW is very much missed in PvP. I played 200 matches since M4 was released and I think I've seen one or two random pug CWs running the shard. Nobody else. BORING.
3. We have some OP classes in this game and now when you actually nerfed the HR a bit with the Piercing Blade Feat you still have unbalance because you keep nerfing the rest of us too at the same time.
Right now the CW is at the bottom of the foodchain, maybe the SW is below us in PvP. I know the CW is dealing good damage right now on live but the problem is that its to EASY to deal the damage. We need to bring some skill back to the class. We do not need more damage nerfs. I think we might even need a small damage buff BUT only if you bring some skill back to the class at the same time.
Hunter Ranger: Combat: Wilds Medicine: This feat is now half as effective in PVP.
Scourge Warlock: Temptation: Soul Bonding: Life steal shared is reduced to 125% of the life steal done (down from 200%).
Control Wizard: Renegade: Chaos Magic: Now correctly applies to allies.
The OP has been updated with these changes.
Thank you for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Edit: I was wrong, isnt lifesteal the problem in PvP?
What does that mean? Is that regarding the post about proccrate?
"10 min of hitting the dummy and we have the procs:
Chaos Magic: Growth - 41 times
Chaos Magic: Nexus - 11 times
Chaos Magic: Fury - 7 times"
This seems kind of redundant with healing depression.